1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and the American Bar Association is asking 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: lawyers to adhere to the rule of law. 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today. 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: Substacks own the Jim Acosta Shows. Jim Acosta joins us 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: to talk about Trump's strategy to poke holes in the 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: weak points of the government. Then we'll talk to Wired's 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: David Gilbert about the threats Elon Musk's DOGE and the 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: teenagers who work for it pose to US national security. 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: But first the news. 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 3: My we are no fans of Harrick Adams at this podcasts. 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 3: The news is very bad. So I think what was 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 3: an interesting thing though, was actually to do a timeline 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 3: of this before we get there, which was that yesterday morning, 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 3: I woke to a tweet that I immediately sent to 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 3: you and many people, which was Mayor Adams gathered as 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 3: top commissioners early Monday to give marching orders under the 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 3: new administration. Don't criticize President Trump, don't interfere with immigration enforcement, 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 3: and trust the mayor, sources told the city, and I thought, hmmm, 21 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: why would he do that. 22 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: And then so I would like to take a moment 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: here to step back for a second and embrace. 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: What you and I both know to be the mayoral curse. 25 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I think you and I discussed this off air 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: every week for years. 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: We discussed this often and always. 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: The greatest city in the world has a mayor problem 29 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: and it rhymes with Adams. No, we have the worst 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: mayors in the world were cursed basically Rudy, I actually 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: like Bloomberg, but you don't. And then the groundhog killer Bill. 32 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: De Blasio, build Abudle, build Bungler. 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: And then now we have our mayor, a simple dyslexic man, 34 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: just like everyone else. Now I'm dyslexic, so no shade 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: on dyslexia. It's my favorite learning disability. But he's very 36 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: corrumpt Let's be honest here, being mayor is about more 37 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: than just hanging out at zero bond. And this is true. 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: So basically what this all looks like to me. So 39 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: the mayor got indicted a bunch of indictments. There was. 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: First of all, there was a while when everyone knew 41 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: he was going to get indicted, and everyone in his 42 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: inner circle kept resigning or marrying each other. Then eventually 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: he got indicted, and there were supposedly more indictments coming. 44 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: He got indicted for his sketchy relationship with Turkey, but 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: there's definitely also other stuff going on. Then he went 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: and sucked up to Trump, and now he has had 47 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: his indictments dismissed but without prejudice, which means that if 48 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: he stops behaving and letting Trump's deportation squads in, if 49 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: he stops doing that, then Trump can refile the charges. 50 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: By the way, there's a lot of insane details about this. 51 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 2: You should definitely read. 52 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: There's articles in the Times and The City Is this 53 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: really great news source that covers a lot of this. 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: Helgate also did a phenomenal one right Hellgate. 55 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: There's all sorts of insane details here, but the net 56 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: net of the story is that basically. 57 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: Our mayor is now free to. 58 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: Act as Trump's lackey until Trump decides that he doesn't 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: need him anymore. And that is not super surprising because 60 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: we saw him sucking up to Trump to try to 61 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: get a pardon. But it's yet another dark day for 62 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: American democracy. 63 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 3: But what I really appreciated is, in typical Maga fashion, 64 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 3: they had to make sure that everyone could understand the message. 65 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: So what they did right after that was the next headline. 66 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: Trump has part in former Illinois Governor Rod Blogoyevitch, who 67 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 3: did some of the most brazen bribery you've ever seen. 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 3: And he would that's okay because Rod Bolgoyevitch has been 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 3: kissing my ass for quite a while, and I want 70 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: to show this is all you got to do. 71 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, Rod Blogoyevitch. 72 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: So you'll remember he tried to sell the US Senate 73 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: seat vacated by former President Barack Obama. He served as 74 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: the governor for six years. It's funny because remember on 75 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: this podcast, we interviewed the great Governor Pritzker, and I said, 76 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: what are you doing next? And he said, if I 77 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: can serve out my second term, I will be a 78 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: history maker. 79 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 3: Which was left us both lefting, so we probably had 80 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 3: to cut it. 81 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: He's like our hero after saying that, But federal prosecutors, 82 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 1: I mean, look, he turned the government into a money 83 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: making operation for himself, or tried to and shaking down 84 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: at children's hospital and racetrack owners who among us, and 85 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: he went to do out. Look, the larger issue here 86 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: is that Donald Trump doesn't want bribery to be illegal 87 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: and let us continue here. Because Trump pauses enforcement of 88 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: law banning foreign bribery, you would think that this is 89 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: a law that you can't pause. First of all, when 90 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: is foreign bribery good? Like I would like my government 91 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: officials to be able to feel comfortable taking bribes from 92 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: foreign governments. 93 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 3: Kind of feels to me, not like training the swamp, 94 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: but importing the alligators into the swamp. 95 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: The Foreign Corruption Practices Act. What I love about this 96 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: administration is that we are learning all of these laws 97 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: that you and I never thought, Like, who would have 98 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: even thought? The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes it illegal 99 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: for companies to operate in the United States to pay 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: foreign government officials to secure or keep business deals, you know, 101 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: like kickbacks. 102 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: Well, Donald Trump said no. 103 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: Kickbacks, okay, ordered to pause in the enforcement of a 104 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: federal law aimed at curbing corruption in most multinational companies. 105 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: Curbing corruption, you say, no one wants that. That sounds terrible, 106 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: says it creates an uneven playing field for people who 107 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: want to be corrupt. 108 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: Can't curb it, gotta do it. 109 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: The law makes it illegal for companies that operate in 110 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: the United States to pay foreign government officials to secure 111 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: business deals. This is like quid pro quo is known. 112 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: It's one of his favorite things. The law was enacted 113 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven. By the way, I just want 114 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: to pause for a second. This another post Watergate seventies 115 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: anti corruption law that Donald Trump is taking a pickaxe to. 116 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: Worth thinking about that for a minute. Mister Trump has 117 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: objected to the law. I love mister Trump. Mister Trump 118 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: has objected to the law which had led to charges 119 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: in huge minds against some of the world's largest companies. 120 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the thing, right, God forbid? So 121 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: anyway that is now not being in forced because what 122 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: are laws anyway? 123 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 3: It's really funny. The only time you'd have to learn 124 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: about these laws is when we'd meet shady characters like 125 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: Paul Manifort and Eric Adams. Trump sick offense which now 126 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 3: has led us to a logical conclusion in the reality 127 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: based world aka not ours, which is that the US 128 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: has slipped to a do low with the interraditional corruption Index. 129 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Yes, shocking, I know you'll be shocked here. 130 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: It's almost like causes, right. 131 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: I man, incredible stuff. 132 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: Here we go lowest ever the US received its lowest 133 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: ever Corruption Perceptions Index score since the Transparency International's current 134 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: scale was established in twenty twelve. According to the group's 135 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: annual ranking of public sector corruption across one hundred and 136 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: eighty countries, the US is one of the forty seven 137 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: country is to receive its lowest score yet effectively at 138 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: its most corrupt point. 139 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: You don't have to tell me that. 140 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: I think we all agree that anyone who has read 141 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: a newspaper in the United States of America knows there 142 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: something sketchy going on in our government. We should not 143 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: be surprised at all a four point drop since twenty 144 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: twenty three. I wonder what changed in twenty twenty three. 145 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: The cleanest country is Denmark. Finland and Singapore are the 146 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: three cleanest countries, which is a bit strange. Seventh year 147 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: in a row that Denmark has led the pack. Venezuela, Somalia, 148 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,599 Speaker 1: and South Sudan. 149 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: Make up the bottom three. We're coming for you. 150 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 3: Baby, America, America, America. 151 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: America, American. 152 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 3: So let's do one last piece of light news before 153 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: we end. 154 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: No, this is my favorite story of the week. This 155 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: is everyone's favorite story of the week. 156 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 3: I would even instruct the listeners. You just go seek 157 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 3: out this clip and get a nice smile for yourself. 158 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 3: Donald Trump declines to endorse JD. Vance as twenty twenty 159 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: eight Republican successor. 160 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: This is the one bright spot of the corruption, the stupidity, 161 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: the anti science. There's so much bad stuff that comes 162 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: out of the ADMIN, and yet they are occasionally a 163 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: moment of just incredible hilarity. 164 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 2: This is like my favorite moment. Donald Trump declines to 165 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: endorse JD. 166 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: Vance's twenty twenty eight Republican successor. President Donald Trump said 167 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: in a preview of his Super Bowl interview on Monday 168 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: that it's too early to endorse Vice President Jady Vans. 169 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: Brett Baher said, do you think of Vance as your successor? 170 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: And Trump said no, he is said no, and these said, budd, 171 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: He's very capable. I think you have a lot of 172 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: very capable people. So I don't know if anyone remembers 173 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: from the first season of this disaster, but Mike Pence, 174 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: Mighty Mike Pence, would like a word. Jim Acosta is 175 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: the author of The Substack of The Jim Acosta Show 176 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: and the author of the New York Times bestseller The 177 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: Enemy of the People. A dangerous time to tell the 178 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: truth in America. Welcome to Fast Politics, Jim Acosta. 179 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 4: Molly, how are you. It's been too long. 180 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: It's been too long and things are going great. What 181 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: are we like in the first month of the Trump 182 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 1: administration and we're already we have to cover of the 183 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: New York Times. Is it a constitutional crisis? 184 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 4: Yeah? I do think it is a constitutional crisis. I mean, 185 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 4: you have the American Bar Association putting out a statement 186 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 4: saying that the administration cannot just violate the law, cannot 187 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 4: just violate orders from a judge. You know, the American 188 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 4: Bar Association doesn't just do that willy nilly. My sense 189 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 4: of it is is that, you know, having covered Trump 190 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 4: the first time around, it is the shock and ag campaign, 191 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 4: and he is trying to poke and prod different pressure 192 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 4: points and see, you know, where the vulnerabilities are. And 193 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 4: you know, he wasn't able to pull this off on 194 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 4: January sixth of twenty twenty one, and so he's trying 195 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 4: to figure out and his team is trying to figure out, 196 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 4: how do we go about putting together this maximalist view 197 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 4: of the executive branch? And you know, I do think 198 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 4: people should be alarmed. I don't think that that's overstating things. 199 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk about how these people 200 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: want to grow presidential power, shrink the checks and balances, 201 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: sort of disassemble some of the founding principles of how 202 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: American democracy works. I'm surprised at how much Doge has 203 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: played a part in that. Are you and discussed? 204 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Molly, you and I were watching this 205 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 4: during the campaign, Elon Musk was talking about Doge. Trump was, 206 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 4: you know, putting Elon Musk on stage with his dark 207 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 4: mega hat and all of that. It just seemed like 208 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 4: a joke. It seemed like a lark. And I mean 209 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 4: they were deadly serious during the campaign. And what we're 210 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 4: now finding out is that, you know, basically Elon Musk 211 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 4: is operating like a co president. And you know, one 212 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 4: of the things that you know, people need to be 213 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 4: alarmed by is I think we're seeing a level of 214 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 4: corruption already inside the government that we have not seen 215 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 4: since the Watergate days when you have I mean, there's 216 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 4: there's a guy named Big Balls or something, what is 217 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 4: his name. He's nineteen years old, and he's been he's 218 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 4: been put in place over at State and DHS and 219 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 4: you know, who are these people who appointed them. I 220 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 4: find this to be highly alarming. We have not seen 221 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 4: anything like this before. And you know, I was down 222 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 4: at the Treasury Department. I wanted to go check out 223 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,599 Speaker 4: the protest that they had the other day outside the 224 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 4: Treasury Department. It seemed like, you know, people are just 225 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 4: starting to wake up to what is taking place. I mean, 226 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 4: I think that this is, without question and infiltration by 227 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 4: an oligarch who is not only looking to feather his nest, 228 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 4: but again realize some vision of a maximalist, autocratic, authoritarian 229 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 4: style view of how the government should work in this country. 230 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 4: And it's just it's just completely anesthetical to the experience 231 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 4: you and I and others have had our entire life, 232 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 4: and so there should be pushback. 233 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's true. And I also think there 234 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: is starting to be real pushback, which I guess is 235 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: good and also is strange. And the funny thing to 236 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: me is like they are trying to take away things 237 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: from people. 238 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 5: I mean, like healthcare CFPB, right exactly, CFPB, A lot 239 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 5: of stuff that are the kind of things that people 240 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 5: have gotten used to, and I'm not sure they understand 241 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 5: that they can be taken away exactly. 242 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 4: I mean, I think that we've sort of been operating 243 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 4: under the premise over the last you know, fifty years 244 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 4: or so that you know, the government does some things. Yeah, 245 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 4: every once in a while, there's some waste, fraud and 246 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 4: abuse that needs to be rooted out, but by and large, 247 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 4: we've been plugging along as a country with a social 248 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 4: safety net, Medicare, Medicaid, social security, government funded science, scientific 249 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 4: research of the work, the important work that they do 250 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 4: at the nih usaid that this notion that in addition 251 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 4: to having the Pentagon with the strongest military in the world, 252 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 4: you're also going to have soft power. I mean, all 253 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 4: of these sort of basics that people like John McCain 254 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 4: and John Kerry and Hillary Clinton and you name it, 255 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 4: Mitt Romney all sort of agree on this is what 256 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 4: government does. All of that. The rug has been pulled 257 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 4: out from under all of that, and I think we're 258 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 4: right now living through all of this collectively in real 259 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 4: time and upending of the American way of life that 260 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 4: you and I have been accustomed to for the last 261 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 4: fifty years now. I mean, I was talking to James 262 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 4: Carvel about this yesterday on my substack. He is of 263 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 4: the mindset that progressive Democrats that left so on, people 264 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 4: in the center center right, you care about all this, 265 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 4: should just sit back, let Trump fall in his face. 266 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 4: He's going to do it in time and so on. 267 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 4: I do worry a little bit that that is perhaps 268 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 4: letting the barbarians to the gate. 269 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a mistake for any number 270 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: of reasons. 271 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 4: I do too, And I love James. I heard him 272 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 4: say it. I was like, you know, some people are 273 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 4: just frigging traumatized by what is going on in this 274 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 4: country right now. 275 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: I think also games is you know, certainly there will 276 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: be unforced errors, which are probably the only way that 277 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: democracy makes it through this thing. I don't think that 278 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: people should And in fact, the truth is, pushback works 279 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: with this crew, and we've seen that again and again 280 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: and certainly when it comes to things like ice going 281 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: into schools and ice going into searches and sending people 282 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: to GIMO. These are real shock and all paradigm shifts, 283 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: things that we don't do in this country using the 284 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: American military on civilians. These are things we don't and 285 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: there has to be pushback or else they won't stop. 286 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 4: That's absolutely right. My experience has been with Trump that 287 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 4: the only language that he understands is pushback. The only 288 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 4: language she understands is sort of going nose to nose 289 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 4: in a way that says no this far and no farther. 290 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 4: One of the problems that we are experiencing right now 291 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 4: is there is almost no pushback inside the Republican Party anymore. 292 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 4: The enablers are in charge, and you know when they 293 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 4: are putting somebody through like Tulsea Gabbert for Director of 294 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 4: National Intelligence. You talk to diplomats around Washington. They are 295 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 4: terrified of that prospect that somebody as gullible as she 296 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 4: is when it comes to eating hook line and sinker, 297 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 4: swallowing hook line and sinker, talking points from the Kremlin 298 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 4: and Basha al Asada and that sort of thing. To 299 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 4: think that she's going to be in charge of the 300 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 4: intelligence community is astounding. When you have somebody like cash 301 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 4: ptel Over at the FBI. There were times, and it 302 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 4: wasn't that long ago, Moley, and again this is what 303 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 4: I'm talking about, the rug pulled out from under all 304 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 4: of us. There was a time, I don't know ten 305 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 4: years ago when you would have had ten fifteen Republican 306 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 4: senators saying, oh, hell no, we're not doing Tulsa Gabert. 307 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 4: We are not doing cash Betel and all of that 308 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 4: is out the window, right. 309 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: No, No, we are definitely in a different world than 310 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: we were in twenty seventeen. Oh those halcyon days of 311 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, which we're not so great either. What I 312 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: think is useful when we look at this admin is 313 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: that there have been many dark times in American democracy 314 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: before this, and I always feel like it's important to 315 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: think of like post reconstruction, like you know, I mean, 316 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: some of it is that affluent white people have not 317 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: necessarily gone through this kind of civil rights war the 318 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: way that people of color have right, especially in the 319 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, we've seen that in the South and the North. 320 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: Jim Crow is a really good example of that. But 321 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: there have certainly been other times when the government has 322 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: decided that they that they want to root out people 323 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: who don't agree with them. I think that's a helpful framing. 324 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: What do you think about that? 325 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 4: I think so too. I mean, George Clooney is bringing 326 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 4: back good night and good luck to Broadway here, and 327 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 4: it is a perfect time to relearn the lessons of 328 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 4: the Red scare. I think it is a perfect time 329 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 4: to relearn the lessons of the civil rights movement of 330 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 4: the nineteen sixties, when people were you know, it sounds 331 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 4: sort of I guess corny or Quaine or cliche. This 332 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 4: to some I suppose not to be, but that folks 333 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 4: would rise up and want to march on Washington because 334 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 4: they're outraged over what is taking place. That is as 335 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 4: american as baseball. I mean, that is as american as 336 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 4: the George Washington portrait that is over my shoulder right now. 337 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 4: That is as American as a statue of liberty. To 338 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 4: scoff at that, I mean, it's almost as though the 339 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 4: language we are using, the discourse we are having, has 340 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 4: been so warped and manipulated, in large part by people 341 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 4: in the right who have cowed much of the country 342 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 4: into this position that, oh yeah, that their point of 343 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 4: view is completely within the realm of normal political dialogue. 344 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: No. 345 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 4: Donald Trump has but become a very effective vehicle for 346 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 4: folks on the far right to push everybody to the 347 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 4: edge of the cliff. And at some point you have 348 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 4: to stop retreating. At some point you do have to 349 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 4: dig in your heels and you have to stand your ground. 350 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 4: And you know the other day, when you know, Trump's 351 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 4: on air Force one coming back from the Super Bowl 352 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 4: or whatever, and he's talking about the January sixth defendants 353 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 4: were the ones who were assaulted. He was making that 354 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 4: claim to reporters. I mean, we are in a place 355 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 4: right now where the truth is just completely out the 356 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 4: window for almost half of the country, and so there 357 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 4: just has to be a muscular, determined, relentless pushback from 358 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 4: people who want to protect the American way of life. 359 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 4: And I just think that that is completely within the 360 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 4: bounds of like normalcy. I mean, I just, you know, 361 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 4: why the hell is that not happening. You know, it 362 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 4: should be happening. 363 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: I'm so struck by the way that ever you want, 364 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: or at least a lot of these people in Trump 365 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: world don't really believe in any of this. So right, 366 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: like Trump is the convert. Jade Vance was never Trump 367 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: until a couple of years ago. Like all these people 368 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: don't really believe in any of this. I mean, even 369 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: Elon was Democrat, was donating to Democrats too. I mean, 370 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: I just, you know, it doesn't seem like anyone feels 371 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: any of this real deeply. Talk to me about that yeah. 372 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 4: I think that's an excellent point, Molly. I mean, you know, 373 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 4: when jd. Vance of Yale Law School is saying that, 374 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 4: you know, judges can't overrule legitimate actions from the executive 375 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 4: or whatever it was that he posted the other day, 376 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 4: just basshit crazy stuff for a guy who appears to 377 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 4: be reasonably intelligent. I think what they have found, Molly, 378 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 4: is they found a trick that works. And I was 379 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 4: talking about this with Timothy Snyder and Applebaum in the 380 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 4: week before the election, and you know, one of the 381 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 4: scary things, and it is a sorry state of affairs 382 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 4: about authoritarianism, about autocracy, about fascism, is that it works 383 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 4: with a sizeable percentage of a civilized society. I hate 384 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 4: to put it out there like that, but it absolutely 385 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 4: is the case. And so what does that mean for 386 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 4: the rest of us. For the rest of us, it 387 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 4: means it doesn't matter if they feel a deeply down 388 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 4: in their bone marrow or if they know that this 389 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 4: is all crap and they're peddling it anyway, the rest 390 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 4: of us have to say, no, you know, you take 391 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 4: that somewhere else. That's just not going to work here. 392 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 4: This idea that you don't have smart senators on the 393 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 4: Republican side of the aisle up on Capitol Hill saying, 394 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 4: what in the hell are you talking about taking over 395 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 4: the Panama Canal? What in the hell are you talking 396 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 4: about taking over Canada and Greenland? 397 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: Stop? 398 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 4: It's nonsense. It's crazy talk. But it gets people on 399 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 4: the right riled up. And I think it is very 400 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 4: much in line with this autocratic, authoritarian view that they 401 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 4: are trying to inject into the bloodstream of this country. 402 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 4: And it just, you know, it's like a snake bite. 403 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 4: We got to suck it out and spit it out. 404 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: And what i'ms for by is that it's just it's 405 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: not a huge percent into the American people who believe this. 406 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: It's probably less than fifty percent. Talk to me about that. 407 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 4: That's an excellent point, because you're absolutely correct. I mean, 408 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 4: I think, you know, maybe what ten to fifteen percent 409 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 4: believe this stuff. How does a vocal minority get across 410 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 4: stuff that is completely unpopular with the vast majority of Americans. 411 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 4: They do it through force. They do it through intimidation, 412 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 4: they do it through threats. They do it through cleaning 413 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 4: out the federal government and replacing officials in important places 414 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 4: with coronis and hacks, and I think that is what 415 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 4: we're in the middle of right now. It is the 416 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 4: reason why they're cleaning out the federal government. This notion that, oh, 417 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 4: we're trying to root out waste, fraud, and abuse, bullony. 418 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 4: What you're trying to do is you're trying to clean 419 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 4: out ten, fifteen, twenty percent of the federal employees in 420 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 4: the government, replace them with hacks and cronies and morons 421 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 4: and ass wipes right out of college so you can 422 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 4: bully and intimidate the rest of the federal government to 423 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 4: get these very unpopular policies across. In what world do 424 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 4: we want to have the Trump administration doing away with 425 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 4: the Department of Education? Who the hell voted for that? 426 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 4: During the campaign? 427 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: Nobody voted for Nobody voted for that. I'm curious when 428 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: we watch this unfold in real time. There's a lot 429 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: of things that make sense or you see where they're 430 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: going with it, But some things like their war on 431 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: the FBI, right, I mean, those guys are Trumpers, Like, 432 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: how do you think that plays? 433 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 4: I think that if the rule of law doesn't mean something, 434 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 4: then where the hell are we? And I was going 435 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 4: to talk about this on my substack later today. The 436 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 4: reason why we don't go one hundred miles an hour 437 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 4: down the interstate and rob banks and stick up seven 438 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 4: eleven's and so on, all of us. The reason why 439 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 4: we abide by the law is because we know there 440 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 4: are consequences to it. If we're going to upend that, 441 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 4: we're going to upend the notion of the rule of 442 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 4: law and everybody's faith and adherence to the idea that 443 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 4: there's nobody is above the law. If we're just going 444 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 4: to abandon all of that, then you're going to end 445 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 4: up just total bedlam. I mean, how is it that 446 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 4: we have a Justice Department a couple of months ago 447 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 4: that says we have a great case against Mayor Eric 448 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 4: Adams in New York, and then out of nowhere, the 449 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 4: Trump administration walks in and they want to dismiss the case. 450 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 4: The same Department of Justice, and I mean obviously not 451 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 4: the same anymore. It's led by Trump's cronies. But that 452 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 4: should be highly concerning when you have somebody like cash 453 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 4: Betel my god, that is an enemy's list that he 454 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 4: has put out there. How in the world are you 455 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 4: putting somebody in charge of the FBI who has an 456 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 4: enemy's list. It's insane. We're on the dark side of 457 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 4: the moon, which is an overused expression of mining, but 458 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 4: it is truly the case. And Democrats are in a 459 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 4: position where they can't really do much of anything. They 460 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 4: can take stuff to court, that's you know. Governors and 461 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 4: attorney's general can do that sort of thing. They just 462 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 4: do not have the numbers and the Congress to stop 463 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 4: these dominees, especially when you have a Republican party that 464 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 4: is just going to enable Trump at every turn. 465 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they do have things they can do that. 466 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about if Newt Gingrid right, 467 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: there are things Democrats can do, just like there are 468 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: things new Gingridge did. Jim Acosta, thank you so much 469 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: for joining us. 470 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 4: It goes too fast. Molly, great to talk to you again. 471 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 4: We're reunited. 472 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: We're reunited. It's all happening, just as it should be. 473 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: David Gilbert is a senior reporter at Wired magazine. Welcome 474 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Dave, thanks for having me. Wired has 475 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: been doing some of the best reporting on the dog drama. 476 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: What are they doing with the computers over there? 477 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 6: It's a really, really good question, and for all the 478 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 6: talk of transparency that Elon Musk and Donald Trump are 479 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 6: talking about bring transparency to government. We really have, at 480 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 6: the granular level no idea what these guys are doing 481 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 6: with the data with the computers over there. What we 482 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 6: do know is that a lot of them, at least 483 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 6: are very young engineers, them straight out of at least 484 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 6: one of them straight out of high school. Some of 485 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 6: them are a lot of them straight out of college. 486 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 6: Some of them have done internships with musques Ai companies 487 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 6: or with his SpaceX or Neuralink or Twitter. He has 488 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 6: recruited these young, ideologically aligned people to come in and 489 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 6: effectivating do whatever he tells them to do. But what 490 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 6: they're actually doing with the data, we still don't really 491 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 6: have that insight at the moment. 492 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, because I'm not in anyone's head, but 493 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: it strikes me that the original justification was sort of 494 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: to update the software. I mean, is that what it is, 495 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: or I mean, what was the original justification there? 496 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 6: I think the overarching thing is that they want to 497 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 6: treat government as a startup, and they want to get 498 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 6: these young and most of them are based on their 499 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 6: academic career, extremely bright kids and young adults, and he 500 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 6: wanted to bring them in, treat the government as a 501 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 6: startup and cost our make efficiencies based in the same 502 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 6: way that people would go into tech companies and make efficiencies. 503 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 6: And they do that by using a lot of these 504 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 6: guys are proficient in machine learning and artificial intelligence, and 505 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 6: that seems to be where their expertise lies. And the 506 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 6: understanding or the belief is that they are using some 507 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 6: sort of AI. One of my colleagues reported that the 508 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 6: GSA is already developing its own custom chatbot and AI 509 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 6: system and that they are using their feeding federal government data, 510 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 6: the data of every single person in the US, into 511 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 6: these systems in order to identify where cuts should be made. 512 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 6: But what we don't know is what those systems are. Like, 513 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 6: we know it's AI, but what does that mean. Are 514 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 6: they using off the shelf systems or are they creating 515 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 6: their own systems? Is this just Mosque's own grock chatbot 516 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 6: that we see on Twitter? Is that just you know, 517 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 6: as he just brought that into make savings within the 518 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 6: US government, Which is a statement that if you said 519 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 6: it's six months ago, sounds ridiculous, but today it sounds 520 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 6: actually plausible because what's happening there is just so mind 521 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 6: blowing that it could potentially be happening. 522 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because it's like, there's no one in 523 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: the world who doesn't want to cut government boast, right, 524 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: there's no one in the world who doesn't want these 525 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: really archaic systems run more like a startup. Right. These 526 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: ideas in principle are quite good. The problem is when 527 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: you get into the details. 528 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, and when you try to do everything all 529 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 6: at once, and you do it without consulting elected officials 530 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 6: because none of these people are elected. It's being done 531 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 6: in the background, in secret by these young engineers and 532 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 6: by some older engineers at least. We reckon about thirty 533 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 6: people working for those at the moment in the various 534 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 6: different agencies across government, and they're being overseen by Steve Davis, 535 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 6: who is a longtime Musk ally and also Musque, and 536 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 6: then he is reporting back to the White House about 537 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 6: what's happening. And so that's all happening without any real 538 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 6: oversight from Congress, from elected officials, and we just don't 539 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 6: know what's happening in there. 540 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: And it's not entirely clear that Trump understands what Musk 541 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: is doing either. 542 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 6: Absolutely, I doubt he does at all. To be honest, 543 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 6: I'm not sure Musk exactly knows what's happening in a 544 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 6: lot of cases. 545 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: Say more about that. 546 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 6: If you look at the background of where the people 547 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 6: who we know are working for those have come from. 548 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 6: They were recruited in chat rooms and discord channels of 549 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 6: you know, people who are very young and have a 550 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 6: lot of maturing yet to do and aren't fully developed 551 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 6: in terms of their view of the world. But most 552 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 6: of them are, if not all of them, have this 553 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 6: kind of they're very very pro elon Musk, and they 554 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 6: see him as this ideal bigger of someone who has 555 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 6: made this in terms of you know, startups and technology 556 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 6: and building a huge fortune, and they seem to be 557 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 6: willing to do whatever he says. And the problem, I 558 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 6: think is that the guys who are in there have 559 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 6: come from worlds where they speak in chat rooms in 560 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 6: this way where people are just as guess, they're talking 561 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 6: in a certain way that is not how you'd expect 562 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 6: people to talk working inside government, and they have brought 563 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 6: that kind of energy and that's chaos into government where 564 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 6: there are people who have worked for decades in those 565 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 6: positions and they are being undermined by these nineteen twenty 566 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 6: twenty one, twenty two year old people who have no 567 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 6: life experience. 568 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean they're certainly the ideological problem, but the 569 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: fundamental question I have is what are they doing in there? Right? Like, 570 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: I mean, make government more efficient? But why do they 571 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: need all this information? I mean, for example, we saw 572 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: Elon said that he had discovered that there people have 573 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: multiple Social Security numbers or that again I don't know 574 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: how that would happen, but or that there's some kind 575 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: of extra money going around social Security. How would they 576 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: find that? And can you sort of talk us through 577 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: that a little bit? 578 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 6: They can find it because if they're been given access 579 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 6: to these classified and sensitive data within government, and they 580 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 6: are able then to see the raw data. And I 581 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 6: suppose a lot of the claims that Mosque is making 582 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 6: is not appears to be based on the actual data 583 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 6: itself or him getting access to the data. It's based 584 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 6: on claims that are being made by other people on 585 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 6: X who are doing some you know, of their own 586 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 6: research quote unquote, yeah, not necessarily based on anathink that 587 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 6: can be verified or that had you know, the people 588 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 6: who are doing it don't have the inside knowledge of 589 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 6: exactly how these systems and these processes work because they're 590 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 6: extremely complex, they've been built up over decades. I think 591 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 6: one insight that we have been given is that there 592 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 6: was one member of Thuge who was fired last week 593 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 6: because of some racist tweets. 594 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: When do they stop doing this? What's sort of the 595 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: endgame here are? Well? 596 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 6: I guess where we are at the moment is there's 597 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 6: a standoff where the courts are pushing back on this 598 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 6: and saying that they have to stop doing a lot 599 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 6: of what they're doing. 600 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: But they haven't stopped, right, They're still doing it. 601 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 6: To an extent. They have said that they have stopped 602 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 6: doing some things. But the sense is that, you know, 603 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 6: if you look at what Elon Musk is tweeting about, 604 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 6: you know that it's a judicial coup instead of the 605 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 6: coup that he is actually carried out. He's calling this 606 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 6: a judicial coup because he is saying the courts are 607 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 6: stopping them doing whatever they want to do. And we 608 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 6: saw in one court fighting this week where the fired 609 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,959 Speaker 6: Dolge engineer from last week, they initially said he didn't 610 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 6: have right access to the data, which means that he can. 611 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: Look, let's read it right, yeah, he said they said. 612 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 6: Initially he don't really don't read on the access, but 613 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 6: in a new court they update and said, oh, we 614 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 6: were given wrong information. He did actually have right access 615 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 6: and he was able to play with that data in 616 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 6: a sandbox as they call it. 617 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: And that's the guy big balls. 618 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 4: Right, No, that's a different guy. 619 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 6: That's this is the guy who was fired, but who 620 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 6: now they've said they're going to rehire, even though it 621 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 6: was exposed that he had posted a lot of racist tweets. 622 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: Okay, so there's one guy who was fired because he 623 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: had leaked information about the company it worked at. 624 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 6: Right, So there's two guys. One guy is Marco Eles. 625 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 6: He was the guy who was fired. He was the 626 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 6: guy who had access to the Treasury data right access, 627 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 6: even though they said initially he was right. He is 628 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 6: apparently going to be rehired because moscous said he's going 629 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 6: to be hired, and Trump and Vance have wading and 630 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 6: saying he should be rehired as well. Edward Paris team 631 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 6: that is big Balls. He is the nineteen year old guy. 632 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 6: He is the guy who was fired from his previous 633 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 6: job for leaking information to an competitor. He also ran 634 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 6: a huge number of web domains, including one that was 635 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 6: registered to of them actually that were registered in Russia, 636 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 6: and one of them that was China facing looking for 637 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 6: clients in China. So, and he's got a pretty sketchy 638 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 6: background in terms of the kind of people who he 639 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 6: interacted with online. He was kind of in the world 640 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 6: of the Calm, which is this really scary online network 641 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 6: of people who do a mixture of cyber criminality and 642 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 6: sex extortion and swatting and stuff like that. So he 643 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 6: was mixing in those circles. And he is still there. 644 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 6: He hasn't been fired. He's been given access to these 645 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 6: this data, and he has been given an official email address, 646 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 6: and he is doing interviews with people who have worked 647 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 6: in government for a long time. And he is nineteen 648 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 6: years of age. 649 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 4: And he used to. 650 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 6: Go by the handle of big Balls on his LinkedIn 651 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 6: profile up until a couple of weeks. 652 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: No, so that guy is still working in our computers. 653 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: He's still there. 654 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 6: He has still got the same access despite all the 655 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 6: reporting a number maybe because of it Elon Musk when 656 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 6: we reported on him, Elon Musk replied, you know, multiple 657 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 6: times and on Twitter kind of saying it was a 658 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 6: joke that we should be complaining that this guy shouldn't 659 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 6: be working within, you know, at the most sensitive levels 660 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 6: of the US government. He thinks that it was a joke, 661 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 6: and that he you know, he continues to work in 662 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:17,760 Speaker 6: there to this day. 663 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine this ending well. 664 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 6: It is because when you listen to some of the 665 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 6: officials that we speak to that have been there for 666 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 6: a long time, and they talk about the systems that 667 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 6: have been put in place and how sensitive and how 668 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 6: complex they are, that if people go in and start 669 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 6: tinkering with those systems to kind of slash and burn effectively, 670 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,919 Speaker 6: which is what el Musk seems to be trying to do, 671 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 6: then it's going to cause absolute chaos and potentially irreverbrical 672 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 6: damage because it's not something that you can change overnight. 673 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 6: These systems have been built over a long period of 674 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,240 Speaker 6: time and contain millions and millions of lines of code. 675 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 6: These aren't iPhone apps or Android apps that you can 676 00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 6: go in and tinker with and change a bit, and 677 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 6: you know, it's not going to have much of a difference. 678 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 6: These systems are what people's you know, people depend on 679 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 6: these for their livelihoods. They depend on them for Social 680 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 6: Security payments, They dependent on them for a vast number 681 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 6: of services that the US government provides, and by these 682 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 6: guys going in and tinkering with them, it's extremely dangerous. 683 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 6: And one of the engineers that we identified, there was 684 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 6: an anecdote about him when he was in college that 685 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 6: he accidentally deleted his entire code base and just kind 686 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 6: of shrugged and went and rewrote it over the next 687 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 6: forty eight hours. And that was seen in their world 688 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 6: as something that was great because it just showed that 689 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 6: he just, you know, was able to rewrite it instantly. 690 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 6: But if he does that within US government, that could 691 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 6: cause untold chaos. 692 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: It just seems like playing with disaster, right. I mean, 693 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: this is all of everyone's information in America. 694 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 6: It absolutely is, and sort of the most sensitive information, 695 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 6: you know, because people there's talk of them getting access 696 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 6: to background checks on people, so you know, in terms 697 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 6: of people's sexuality and their credit score and all of 698 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 6: that kind of really really sensitive data that people obviously 699 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 6: don't want a nineteen year old called big Balls having 700 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 6: access to that just seems to be on the cards 701 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 6: now because there doesn't seem to be any limits to 702 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 6: what these guys are willing to do or where they 703 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 6: want to go in terms of getting access to this 704 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 6: type of information. 705 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: Is there anything that American citizens can do at this moment? 706 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 6: Ray, I'm genuinely not sure, because they can hope that 707 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 6: the courts will hold the line. But even if they 708 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 6: are holding the line, but as you say, it seems 709 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 6: like they're just not going to abide by their rulings. 710 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 6: They're going to just continue to do what they're doing. 711 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 6: You know, we've seen some Democratic lawmakers have tried to 712 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 6: get access to some of the buildings to see what's 713 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 6: going on, but they've been blocked by private security. It 714 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 6: just seems incredibly worrying at the moment that if your 715 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 6: information is stored somewhere in the US government, that you know, 716 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 6: the group of a couple of dozen engineers and managers 717 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 6: can suddenly have access to it and do it, seems 718 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 6: whatever they want with it. 719 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: I mean, what is the sort of best case scenario here, 720 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: because I'd love to see a best case scenario. 721 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 6: I think the best case scenario is that there are 722 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 6: still people in these agencies who and because they are 723 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 6: contacting US and other publications in huge numbers to speak 724 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 6: out about what's happening, and I think their best hope 725 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 6: at the moment because they have been there, or a 726 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 6: lot of them have been there for a long time. 727 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 6: This is their life's work in a lot of cases, 728 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 6: and they don't want to see it just torn down. 729 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 6: They don't want to see it burned to the ground. 730 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 6: And so I believe that if they can somehow influence 731 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 6: what these guys are doing or help prevent them from 732 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 6: making the worst possible scenario, I think that's the best 733 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 6: hope for. 734 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 4: A more positive outcome at the moment. 735 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: Dave Gilbert, this is really some chilling stuff. Thank you. 736 00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back. 737 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 4: Absolutely. I'm sure there's going to be a lot more 738 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 4: to this. Unfortunately in the coming weeks. 739 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 2: No moment, Jesse Cannon. 740 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 3: SMI you down fast. Got to say you know this. 741 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 3: Every time I see the words Trump and Gaza, I 742 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 3: just think, oh, no, no more, please, no more, mercy, mercy, mercy, 743 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 3: because it just keeps getting stupider. And I feel like 744 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 3: today it got a lot stupider. 745 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time not wanting to chastise 746 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: the Muslim voters in dear Born who voted for Trump 747 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: or who just didn't vote for Harris, and certainly I don't. 748 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 2: Know that that's a way to win voters. 749 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: But that said, oh my god, guys, these guys do 750 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: not want anything good for Gaza. So Tuesday, Trump met 751 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: with King Abdollah from Jordan and continued to muse about 752 00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 1: his grand plan to turn the Gaza Strip into luxury 753 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: waterfront housing. I laugh to keep from crying again because 754 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,760 Speaker 1: this is really really bleak stuff. He made no attempt 755 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: on Tuesday to soften his proposal. By the way, this 756 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: is a proposal that Jordanians don't want this. None of 757 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: the Middle East is into this, with the exception of 758 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So he had made no effort to soften 759 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: his proposal to relocate all of the Palestinadians in Gaza 760 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: and redevelop their land into Trump Tower Gaza. King Abdullah 761 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: suggested the Arab world was opposed, but you know what, 762 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: Donald Trump doesn't care. He repeated his views that Palestinians 763 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: should be moved out of the devastated strip to parcels 764 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: in third countries, including Jordan. 765 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 2: I'm sure he must have. 766 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: King Abdullah must have loved that, despite the fact that 767 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: no one wants him to do that. I think it's 768 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,879 Speaker 1: worth musing for a minute. This is the guy who 769 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: he wants to annex Canada and he wants I mean, 770 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: this is mister, are like, no open borders except when 771 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: it comes to your countries. The President brushed aside questions 772 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: about what authority the US might wield to take control 773 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: of the Palestinian enclave, a good point like how is 774 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: America allowed to do this to someone else's country, And 775 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: he said, in the typical Trumpian fashion, it's not a 776 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,919 Speaker 1: complex thing to do. And with the United States being 777 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: in control of that piece of land, which we're not 778 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: a fairly large piece of land, you're going to have 779 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 1: stability in the Middle East for the first time. 780 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 2: Trump said, all right, well, there we go. I open 781 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 2: and shut. I'm convinced. 782 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 1: Trump's in the oval office of Dellah seated next to him, 783 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:44,840 Speaker 1: then made a face. 784 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 2: No, he didn't make a face. 785 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,479 Speaker 1: But he did say that if he could have, would 786 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: have rolled his eyes. 787 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 3: I think the most telling quote here was this one 788 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 3: from Trump that said, the US will take over the 789 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 3: Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too. 790 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 2: Sounds rights, He's going to go wild on it. 791 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 3: That's what American posts. 792 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: That's right, We're going to go wild on the Gaza 793 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,280 Speaker 1: Strip just as soon as we get over our most 794 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: recent measles outbreak. 795 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 3: In a county that voted ninety percent Trump. 796 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 797 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 798 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 799 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,760 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 800 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.