WEBVTT - The Hospital [6]

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Freeway Fanom, a production of iHeartRadio,

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<v Speaker 1>Tenderfoot TV, and Black bar Mitzvah. The views and opinions

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<v Speaker 1>expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast

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<v Speaker 1>author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not

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<v Speaker 1>represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, Black bar Mitzvah, or

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<v Speaker 1>their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter that may

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<v Speaker 1>not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 2>It began that evening. She had cooked dinner that afternoon

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<v Speaker 2>and had done her little chores and what have you,

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<v Speaker 2>and so she asked us she could go and visit

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<v Speaker 2>her boyfriend. She had a boyfriend at the time who

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<v Speaker 2>lived near the recreation center where she worked at. And so,

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, she had done all of that, my

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<v Speaker 2>parents allowed her to go and visit him, which meant

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<v Speaker 2>she had had to take one bus and go straight

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<v Speaker 2>up Martin Luther King to get to his house. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I remember Diane going there, and I remember my

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<v Speaker 2>parents telling her, you have to be back home by

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<v Speaker 2>ten o'clock. We used to have a strict rule that

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<v Speaker 2>when the street lights came on, we had to come inside.

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<v Speaker 2>It's now after ten o'clock. My father worked at Lorton

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<v Speaker 2>Reformatory in Norton, Virginia at the time, and he worked

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<v Speaker 2>the graveyard shift, so he had gone to work, but

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<v Speaker 2>my mom was home and she had noticed that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's ten o'clock, eleven o'clock and twelve o'clock and Diane's

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<v Speaker 2>still not home. All I remember is, boy, is dying

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<v Speaker 2>going to get in trouble when she come home, because

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<v Speaker 2>it was, you know, after the time she was supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to be there, and I was just thinking that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she stayed out late. I never ever, ever thought that

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<v Speaker 2>anything happened to her. So I was able to eventually

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<v Speaker 2>doze off to sleep. And the next morning when my

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<v Speaker 2>father came home and my mother said that Diane never

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<v Speaker 2>came home. So that morning they wind up calling the police.

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<v Speaker 2>They took a police report, and at one point my

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<v Speaker 2>mother was trying to remember what Diane had on, and

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<v Speaker 2>she had given them a description of her clothing, and

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<v Speaker 2>I remember Dabora, my sister, intervening and saying, no, she

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<v Speaker 2>had changed and she put on a gold shirt and

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<v Speaker 2>the blue jeans. Police took the report and they left

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<v Speaker 2>later that morning. I remember my sister and I. We

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<v Speaker 2>went to the corner of South Capitol and montin Luther

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<v Speaker 2>King Avenue. There's a bus stop just in that block,

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<v Speaker 2>in front of a bank of trees, and so we thought,

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<v Speaker 2>what if she got off the bus and got hurt.

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<v Speaker 2>We went in the woods seeing if we could find Diane.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't find her, but when I got back to

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<v Speaker 2>the house, my parents had been notified that there had

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<v Speaker 2>been a young female found and they wanted to have

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<v Speaker 2>them go down to Baltimore to the Medical Examiner's office

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<v Speaker 2>so they can see if that was die In. So

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<v Speaker 2>while they were in Baltimore to identify the body that

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<v Speaker 2>they found, the Evening Star newspaper came out and we

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<v Speaker 2>were reading in the newspaper that there was a body found.

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<v Speaker 2>And when they gave the description of what the person

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<v Speaker 2>was wearing, it was a gold shirt and blue jeans,

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<v Speaker 2>and without seeing anything more, we just knew that that

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<v Speaker 2>was die In.

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<v Speaker 3>The homicide detectives termed the cases the little girl cases.

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<v Speaker 4>This child was laying on the side of the road.

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<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't go no way, I would call up my house.

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<v Speaker 5>Those first five murders should have been a huge warning

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<v Speaker 5>bell for the police.

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<v Speaker 3>We just want to know what happened. This person must

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<v Speaker 3>have saw that. They were thinking that maybe it's just

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<v Speaker 3>one person, and he says, oh, they need to know.

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<v Speaker 6>This is me.

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<v Speaker 4>I thought that they would catch him. I thought it

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<v Speaker 4>was just a matter of time.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm Celeste Hedley and this is Freeway Phantom.

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<v Speaker 2>My family had just moved to Washington, d C. From

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<v Speaker 2>al Passo, Texas in nineteen sixty nine, so we were

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<v Speaker 2>movies in DC.

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<v Speaker 7>This is Patricia Williams, sister of Diane Williams, who would

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<v Speaker 7>be the sixth confirmed victim of the Freeway Fantom.

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<v Speaker 2>Having to uproute and move to Washington, d C. I

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<v Speaker 2>was still trying to get acclimated to living in the

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<v Speaker 2>city and living in an area where it wasn't to

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<v Speaker 2>me as safe as it was when we were living

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<v Speaker 2>in Outpass of Texas. But by the time nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 2>two came along, we were pretty much Washingtonians.

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<v Speaker 6>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>We went to school, we all worked at the recreation

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<v Speaker 2>centers during the summertime. We had friends and we would

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<v Speaker 2>go to back then they had house parties. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>reminds me of seventy one. In seventy two, earth wind

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<v Speaker 2>and fire going to the outdoor concerts that they would

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<v Speaker 2>have during the summertime for kids. And intertwined in that

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<v Speaker 2>era was you know, the Freeway Phantom, because while we

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<v Speaker 2>were young and still having fun, I knew, We knew,

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<v Speaker 2>Diane knew that there was a serial killer in Washington,

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<v Speaker 2>d C. By the time nineteen seventy two came around,

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<v Speaker 2>we were all aware that some girls had been murdered

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<v Speaker 2>and it was attributed to the Freeway Phantom.

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<v Speaker 7>By this point, the Freeway fandom had killed five young

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<v Speaker 7>black girls across the DC area, but there had been

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<v Speaker 7>no activity since November of the previous year. Still, Patricia

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<v Speaker 7>says that those murders hung eerily over her family.

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<v Speaker 2>So the feeling was almost atypical because I believe it

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<v Speaker 2>took three, possibly even four girls to be murdered before

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<v Speaker 2>they got any kind of recognition that Houston we have

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<v Speaker 2>a problem. The community was upset about that and that

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<v Speaker 2>maybe they had been made aware sooner that there's a

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<v Speaker 2>potential killer out there of young girls to watch your

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<v Speaker 2>orders quickly, maybe we would have had less tragedy. But

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<v Speaker 2>it took them too long to bring the public or

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<v Speaker 2>make the public aware that there was a killer out there.

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<v Speaker 2>And so a lot of people in the community were

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<v Speaker 2>upset about it.

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<v Speaker 7>But Patricia says that the best her family could do

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<v Speaker 7>was to keep living their lives.

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<v Speaker 2>As far as myself and even you know, like my

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<v Speaker 2>sisters and stuff, we were aware of it. If it

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't happen right in your negative woods, you may be

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<v Speaker 2>aware of it, but it doesn't affect you. So we

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<v Speaker 2>weren't so frightened that we stayed inside and behind locked doors.

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<v Speaker 2>We weren't cautious, you know, there's never believing that anything

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<v Speaker 2>like that could happen to us.

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<v Speaker 7>Patricia had a large family, but she says she was

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<v Speaker 7>closest with her sister Diane.

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<v Speaker 2>There were six of us, six siblings. Diane was the oldest,

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<v Speaker 2>she was seventeen. Of course, being the oldest, we looked

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<v Speaker 2>up to her. We would always go to church, and

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<v Speaker 2>she actually said she was going to get baptized, and

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<v Speaker 2>we followed her and we were all baptized following Diane's lead.

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<v Speaker 2>Diane and I were very close. We actually shared the

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<v Speaker 2>same bedroom, so we were always close. But at seventeen

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<v Speaker 2>years old, Diane was starting to date, and so even

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<v Speaker 2>though we were close, we weren't as close as we

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<v Speaker 2>used to be because I'm a younger sister. Some oldest sisters,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they don't want to be around that not

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<v Speaker 2>they don't want to be around. But I was younger,

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<v Speaker 2>and what do I know?

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<v Speaker 7>But then on September fifth, nineteen seventy two, seventeen year

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<v Speaker 7>old Diane Williams went missing. It had been ten months

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<v Speaker 7>since the Freeway fandom had killed his fifth victim, Brenda Woodard,

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<v Speaker 7>but now it seemed as though he had returned.

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<v Speaker 8>She had visited her boyfriend, which was a pretty normal

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<v Speaker 8>thing for her to do, and was told to be

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<v Speaker 8>home by tenth the night before.

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<v Speaker 7>This is writer Victoria Hester, who co wrote a book

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<v Speaker 7>on the Freeway Phantom with her father Blaine Pardo.

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<v Speaker 8>Her boyfriend escorted her to the bus stop, so we

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<v Speaker 8>know that she got at least to the bus. The

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<v Speaker 8>bus driver did confirm that she got off at a

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<v Speaker 8>bus stop, which was at nineteenth Street in Benning Road.

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<v Speaker 8>It really didn't make any sense how she ended up

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<v Speaker 8>where she ended up. We have no idea how she

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<v Speaker 8>got where she was based on where she was dropped off,

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<v Speaker 8>whether she got a ride from someone else, or whether

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<v Speaker 8>she walked a different way home. It was just odd,

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<v Speaker 8>especially that late at night.

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<v Speaker 9>Yeah, it wasn't the bus stop that you would get

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<v Speaker 9>off at to go home. It was earlier, and it

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<v Speaker 9>made no sense.

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<v Speaker 7>This is Blaine Pardo.

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<v Speaker 9>The bus driver was fairly certain of where she got off,

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<v Speaker 9>and then she got off alone. But it doesn't make

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<v Speaker 9>sense that she would get off the bus there. There's

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<v Speaker 9>a reason she got off, and we'll never know what

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<v Speaker 9>that was. But the killer wasn't with her then, So

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<v Speaker 9>it's confusing. But it also tells me that he wasn't

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<v Speaker 9>stalking these girls. If you think about it, so many

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<v Speaker 9>of them are caught going to a grocery store running

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<v Speaker 9>an errand it's not like something that's a routine where

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<v Speaker 9>he's following them for several days and knows their pattern

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<v Speaker 9>and how to intercept them. These are all victims of opportunity.

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<v Speaker 8>Her body was found the very next day. She was

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<v Speaker 8>reported missing by her father when he came home at

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<v Speaker 8>eight am that morning. Her father actually ended up driving

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<v Speaker 8>by her body on his way home from work. He

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<v Speaker 8>was a corrections officer at Lorton Prison. I didn't realize

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<v Speaker 8>that he had driven right past his own daughter's body.

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<v Speaker 8>He didn't know at that point that she was even missing.

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<v Speaker 8>Since he worked the night shift. He was just going

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<v Speaker 8>straight home and that's when he realized she wasn't there.

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<v Speaker 7>At about seven am that day, the body had been

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<v Speaker 7>found by a trucker who had pulled off the highway.

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<v Speaker 7>It was alongside it two ninety five, just south of

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<v Speaker 7>the Maryland d C Line. Diane's parents went to Baltimore

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<v Speaker 7>to identify her body, and while they were gone, Patricia

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<v Speaker 7>and her siblings saw the news of their sister's death

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<v Speaker 7>in the evening Star newspaper.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember all of us screaming and crying and just

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<v Speaker 2>really breaking down because we found out that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>our sister had been murdered. I remember the next door

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<v Speaker 2>neighbors they later had said that they heard all this

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<v Speaker 2>commotion going on next door. They didn't know what was

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<v Speaker 2>going on, but obviously we were upset enough that we

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<v Speaker 2>calls concern with the neighbors because of our reaction to

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<v Speaker 2>reading that. So when our parents did come home, they

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<v Speaker 2>of course told us that yes, that in fact was

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<v Speaker 2>Diane that was murdered. At that time, our parents didn't

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<v Speaker 2>share a lot of information with us, so I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know a lot. But at that time, because Diane's body

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<v Speaker 2>was found along a freeway they had almost immediately linked

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<v Speaker 2>to the freeway phantom. I don't even know if they

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<v Speaker 2>had evidence other than her body being found on the

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<v Speaker 2>freeway to say that she was in fact a victim,

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<v Speaker 2>but the media had pretty much linked her to that

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<v Speaker 2>as being a victim.

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<v Speaker 7>But there was evidence linking Diane to the previous murders.

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<v Speaker 7>The bus stop where she was last seen was just

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<v Speaker 7>down the street from the location of Carol Spink's and

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<v Speaker 7>Darlinia Johnson's abduction sites, and she was found just off

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<v Speaker 7>the I two ninety five freeway, about two miles from

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<v Speaker 7>where she lived. According to the police report, Diane was

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<v Speaker 7>wearing the clothes that she went missing in. Like previous victims,

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<v Speaker 7>her shoes were removed, but this time they were carefully

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<v Speaker 7>placed next to her body. The name Diane was also

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<v Speaker 7>written in one of her white sneakers, and police found

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<v Speaker 7>a dollar and twenty six cents in the pocket of

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<v Speaker 7>her genes. According to the autopsy report, the official cause

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<v Speaker 7>of death was strangulation. There was no sign of sexual assault,

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<v Speaker 7>but semen was found on her clothing. Police believed this

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<v Speaker 7>was because Diana had had sex with her boyfriend the

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<v Speaker 7>night before, but the boyfriend told authorities they didn't have

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<v Speaker 7>sex that evening. Despite this, police chose to not have

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<v Speaker 7>the semen officially tested.

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<v Speaker 8>The interesting thing about Diane is that her shoes were

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<v Speaker 8>not missing from her body, unlike the other victims where

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<v Speaker 8>one shoe was missing or bow shoes, but her shoelaces

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<v Speaker 8>were missing, which is interesting because that's deliberate.

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<v Speaker 7>Here's Victoria Hester again.

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<v Speaker 8>You don't just run out of your shoelaces or they

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<v Speaker 8>just disappear. You deliberately have to take the shoelaces out.

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<v Speaker 8>So was that done to tie her up at some

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<v Speaker 8>point and he forgot about it, or was this done

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<v Speaker 8>as a souvenir to take home and remember it by

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<v Speaker 8>It kind of seems like little things like shoes or

0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 8>books are missing from each of the girls, and it

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 8>does kind of seem like a souvenir type deal for

0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 8>the killer, which is another creepy factor that there's a

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 8>box sitting in someone's basement somewhere that they may not

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 8>know why these random things are there. And the other

0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.240
<v Speaker 8>thing about her was that she had money in her

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.720
<v Speaker 8>pocket of her genes, so we know that the motivation

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.160
<v Speaker 8>here was definitely not money in it was to kill her.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 8>Her cause of death was strangulation as well, and she

0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:07.120
<v Speaker 8>did have bruises on a ribcage, a scrape on her elbow,

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 8>and fingernail marks on her neck.

0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.160
<v Speaker 7>The police report suggests that this evidence was submitted to

0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.320
<v Speaker 7>the FBI. However, the FBI had just been handed another

0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:19.520
<v Speaker 7>significant case.

0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 10>Richard Nixon's future as the President of the United States

0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 10>has now apparently moved beyond his control on Capitol Hill.

0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 10>The House Judiciary Committee has started a formal inquiry into

0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 10>whether it should approve the impeachment of the president. The

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 10>Senate Judiciary Committee is hearing proposals that would shift control

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 10>of the Watergate investigation from the White House to a

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 10>court appointed prosecutor who could investigate the president himself.

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.480
<v Speaker 7>In June of that year, the Watergate scandal broke, and

0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 7>this diverted the FBI's attention and manpower away from the

0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 7>Freeway phantom case, which meant that the investigation, while technically ongoing,

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:04.720
<v Speaker 7>was relegated to not obscurity, just the shadows. The case

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.880
<v Speaker 7>was not forgotten, but it was also not top of

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.880
<v Speaker 7>mind for law enforcement, and that's putting it lightly.

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 2>There were things that happened where the Freeway Phantom and

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.800
<v Speaker 2>also other murdered victims, their cases were not a priority

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.760
<v Speaker 2>over something else that may have been going on in Washington, DC.

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Everybody knows that the code of the case gets the

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.640
<v Speaker 2>less chance of your actually closing the case.

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.000
<v Speaker 7>The fallout from Diane Williams murder was even more chaotic

0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.640
<v Speaker 7>than the previous five murders. Community member Wilma Harper wrote

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.560
<v Speaker 7>about this in her book The Mystery of the Freeway Phantom.

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.920
<v Speaker 7>In fact, she had some relation to Diane Williams.

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 11>As she writes, on September sixth, nineteen seventy two, my

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.720
<v Speaker 11>brother Leon Williams had promised to come to my house

0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.399
<v Speaker 11>and help plant tulip bulbs. At five o'clock PM, the

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.159
<v Speaker 11>telephone rang. It was Leon. He said, the girl that

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.440
<v Speaker 11>was reported missing is my Diane and she is dead.

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.120
<v Speaker 11>My reply, I'll come over immediately.

0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.119
<v Speaker 7>Wilma says. The media frenzy around Diane's death was also

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 7>bigger than it had been for previous victims.

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.679
<v Speaker 11>Circumstances surrounding Diane's death were similar to those present in

0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 11>the other murders committed, giving much rise to much publicity

0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:53.320
<v Speaker 11>and media headlines blaring. After ten months freeway phantom strikes again.

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.679
<v Speaker 11>Within a period of eighteen months, six black girls had

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.640
<v Speaker 11>been killed and their bodies placed on the freeways around Washington,

0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 11>d C. None of the murder cases had been solved.

0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.600
<v Speaker 11>Who is this mysterious person? Is there a freeway phantom?

0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.119
<v Speaker 7>As a result of this frenzy, the Williams family was

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 7>bombarded with strange calls and visitors.

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.200
<v Speaker 11>The family also had to deal with the lunatic fringe.

0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.560
<v Speaker 11>Some people with sadistic tendencies presented extreme anguish to the

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 11>family by telephone. Calls came in around the clock, increasing

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.760
<v Speaker 11>their anxiety during the day and disturbing their sleep at night.

0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.880
<v Speaker 11>They received four particularly sadistic calls, obviously from the same

0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 11>person at two o'clock am, who said in a sinister voice,

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 11>I killed your daughter. Others asked for Diane by name.

0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 11>Some of the messages were obscene.

0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.480
<v Speaker 7>Lastly, wilmah Harper writes that while Diane's body was being

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 7>prepared for the funeral, the family became aware of evidence

0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:02.240
<v Speaker 7>that had been ignored by the mayor lnd Coroner's office.

0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 11>There seems to have been no end to the horrors

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.240
<v Speaker 11>that confronted the family during that time. When the funeral

0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.600
<v Speaker 11>arrangements were being made. When Diane's body was taken in

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.399
<v Speaker 11>Mason's funeral parlor, the mortician found certain evidence that she

0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.240
<v Speaker 11>thought was worthy of police scrutiny. She insisted that a

0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.800
<v Speaker 11>pathology test be made that night before evidence was destroyed

0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.320
<v Speaker 11>by embalming fluids. Seamen and hair of a certain color

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.840
<v Speaker 11>and texture were found in the mouth of the deceased.

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.120
<v Speaker 11>The autopsy conducted the coroner in Maryland had not revealed

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 11>these facts, had there been gross negligence on the part

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.600
<v Speaker 11>of the persons in the coroner's office. Was forensic medicine

0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:44.160
<v Speaker 11>the most fascinating field of police work neglected. How did

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.640
<v Speaker 11>the hare get inside of the mouth of the corpse?

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:52.200
<v Speaker 11>Was this a clue planted or left by the Freeway phantom.

0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.280
<v Speaker 7>We don't know the answer to these questions, but we

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.199
<v Speaker 7>do know that Diane Williams was the last confirmed victim

0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.760
<v Speaker 7>of the Freeway fan. With no new murders and federal

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:07.120
<v Speaker 7>authorities occupied with Watergate, it seemed like the investigation had

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.679
<v Speaker 7>hit a wall. However, a small team of investigators continued

0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 7>on the case for the next few years, including now

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 7>retired FBI special Agent Barry culvert, who says that those

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.480
<v Speaker 7>years after the murders stopped were particularly difficult.

0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 12>The main thing you were hoping, sometime at one of

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:30.439
<v Speaker 12>these crime scenes that the assailant would drop something, he

0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.879
<v Speaker 12>would lose something that was his, and you didn't do it.

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 12>We just didn't have it. We couldn't find anything like that,

0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 12>even a confession with no backup evidence. They could come

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.240
<v Speaker 12>to court and retract their statement, and you're really kind

0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.640
<v Speaker 12>of at a loss. We just didn't have that many

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:53.080
<v Speaker 12>witnesses that saw a victim with somebody and then they

0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:54.000
<v Speaker 12>never saw him again.

0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:57.040
<v Speaker 7>Barry says that the best they could do was to

0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.399
<v Speaker 7>start building a profile of their suspect. The first thing

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.920
<v Speaker 7>most people agreed on, Barry tells us, is that the

0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.199
<v Speaker 7>killer was likely someone from the neighborhood.

0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.720
<v Speaker 12>I think these girls, if they got in a car

0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.600
<v Speaker 12>and went with somebody, I think they would have seen them.

0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.600
<v Speaker 12>They would have recognized them. May not know them by name,

0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.400
<v Speaker 12>but they've seen them where they hang out, where they go,

0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.200
<v Speaker 12>and if he said we out tonight and let me

0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:25.520
<v Speaker 12>give you a ride, they might get in the car

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.760
<v Speaker 12>with him. As far as getting in a car with

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 12>a stranger, something tells me that that may not have happened.

0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.960
<v Speaker 12>We were looking for someone that there would be some familiarity.

0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.840
<v Speaker 12>It's somebody that they've seen from Oxen Hill Athletic Club.

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.480
<v Speaker 12>It could be a coach, it could be a basketball coach.

0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.679
<v Speaker 12>It could be somebody that, oh, I know him, we

0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.160
<v Speaker 12>see him at rec center, or we see him when

0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 12>we go up here to school at night.

0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.560
<v Speaker 7>This was a sentiment shared by a former NPD detective

0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.120
<v Speaker 7>from Jenkins. The lead investigator on.

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 3>This case, whoever did the cases, fit right into the community,

0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.239
<v Speaker 3>never raised any suspicion at all, and that's how he

0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.280
<v Speaker 3>was able to do what he did. Nobody would would

0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.359
<v Speaker 3>question if they saw him talking to a little girl

0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.240
<v Speaker 3>or anything. They wouldn't question it.

0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 7>Because of this and other evidence, many felt that the

0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.480
<v Speaker 7>killer had to be a black male, most likely in

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:29.120
<v Speaker 7>his thirties.

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:35.160
<v Speaker 3>I concluded from looking at the reports from the FBI,

0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:40.720
<v Speaker 3>negroid head hairs unlike the victims, were found on the victims.

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.199
<v Speaker 3>When you look at the crime scenes, there were no

0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.240
<v Speaker 3>black detectives on the scenes close enough that their head

0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:50.240
<v Speaker 3>could have dropped on these victims. So where did the

0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 3>black head hair which was not the victims?

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:52.840
<v Speaker 7>You know?

0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 3>So that is what I was basing it on, you know.

0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.159
<v Speaker 7>And they had to have fit into the community without.

0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.439
<v Speaker 3>Right, and it wasn't unusual for white males to be

0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:06.040
<v Speaker 3>in the neighborhood. And you know who was a white

0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:08.480
<v Speaker 3>male who came to the neighborhood almost every week, the

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 3>assurance man. Everybody had a grandmother had a nickel pile, see,

0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.639
<v Speaker 3>and he come there every week and collect his money,

0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.040
<v Speaker 3>and nobody never robbed him or anything every week, so

0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.640
<v Speaker 3>nobody said anything about him.

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.479
<v Speaker 7>In your opinion, it wouldn't be a white person.

0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:31.040
<v Speaker 3>Forensically, I would say that's correct. It was not a Caucasian.

0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:32.240
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't a white person.

0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:32.720
<v Speaker 13>No.

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.879
<v Speaker 7>Romayne concedes that some of the official suspects were white,

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:39.840
<v Speaker 7>but she never believed it.

0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:42.960
<v Speaker 3>They had some white guys who were over in the

0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:46.840
<v Speaker 3>forty nine hundred block of Benning Road Southeast, picking up

0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:49.639
<v Speaker 3>black females off the street and stuff like that. But

0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.399
<v Speaker 3>if you go by the forensic evidence, and that's that's

0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 3>the problem, if it doesn't match, you know, if it's

0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 3>negro headhairs, why would nigro head has be on the

0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:05.679
<v Speaker 3>victim's underclothes if some black male hadn't been close to her,

0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.199
<v Speaker 3>you see what I'm saying. So, and I think Brenda

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:14.080
<v Speaker 3>Wood it is the only one where substantial Caucasian has

0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:16.960
<v Speaker 3>were found, but they weren't able to do anything with

0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 3>them because I think in one case, some of the

0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.919
<v Speaker 3>has were dyed red. You know how many white males

0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 3>you know dye they hair red. You know, So we

0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 3>don't know whether it's cross contamination or not. We don't know.

0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:32.719
<v Speaker 7>However, someone else who reviewed the case had a different

0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:37.119
<v Speaker 7>perspective on the suspect. Former PG County homicide Detective Hillary

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 7>Zukolowski believes it may not have been someone from within

0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 7>the community.

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.119
<v Speaker 4>Well, you know, typically you'll have a conversation with the

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 4>people you work with, and you know, everybody has their

0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.560
<v Speaker 4>own series, as I did, and I kind of agree

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.320
<v Speaker 4>with everybody else. We thought perhaps that it may have

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:02.399
<v Speaker 4>been somebody that was transient. That area is highly transient.

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 4>People are coming though and out of the time. Thought

0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:08.480
<v Speaker 4>perhaps it could have been somebody there temporarily working for

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:12.600
<v Speaker 4>the government or even perhaps a military person because they're

0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:15.680
<v Speaker 4>always coming and going to that area. And we thought

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 4>it's a good possibility that somebody was there for a

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.879
<v Speaker 4>period of time. And since they stopped so abruptly we

0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.960
<v Speaker 4>thought that was a possibility that somebody may have been

0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:29.320
<v Speaker 4>transferred out of that area. I mean, it was off speculation.

0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.320
<v Speaker 4>Nobody really knew anything at the time. It was just

0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:33.880
<v Speaker 4>nothing but guesswork.

0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:38.760
<v Speaker 7>To some degree, the transient idea makes a lot of sense.

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:42.160
<v Speaker 7>It was very common for serial killers in the seventies

0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:46.760
<v Speaker 7>to travel, leaving behind bodies in various places. Some examples

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:50.680
<v Speaker 7>include Samuel Little and the Golden State Killer. And even

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.840
<v Speaker 7>though she still believes it was a blackmail from the community,

0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:58.280
<v Speaker 7>Romayne Jenkins admits that the FBI did investigate similar cases

0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 7>across the country, looking anywhere for a connection.

0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:05.520
<v Speaker 3>So if you look at all the submissions, I mean

0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:10.520
<v Speaker 3>they traveled to Connecticut because Connecticut had some cases similar,

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:14.520
<v Speaker 3>not the exact, but similar. They went to Connecticut, they

0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:18.440
<v Speaker 3>went to upstate New York, they went to New Jersey,

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 3>they went everywhere that there was a series of pattern

0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:26.159
<v Speaker 3>cases where females were raped and strangled and thrown on

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:29.960
<v Speaker 3>the highway. And some of these cases were solved. They

0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 3>even interviewed the suspect in those cases, so lots of

0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:34.000
<v Speaker 3>work was done.

0:26:34.040 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 7>It was but then how to explain the fact that

0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:41.880
<v Speaker 7>the freeway phantom stopped killing. Romayne has an idea about

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 7>that as well.

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:48.320
<v Speaker 3>I think he was upset. He felt he had vindicated himself,

0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:53.720
<v Speaker 3>he had gotten authorities or whoever to see that he

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:56.639
<v Speaker 3>meant business. It was no need. How often do you

0:26:56.720 --> 0:27:00.560
<v Speaker 3>find serial killers who killed women for years and they

0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:04.080
<v Speaker 3>get married, they become what is it? One guy? Was

0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 3>it a bek btk? Yeah? You know these people return

0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:10.560
<v Speaker 3>to society and act like they hadn't done a thing.

0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:15.119
<v Speaker 7>When trying to determine the characteristics of your suspect, what

0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:18.480
<v Speaker 7>you're doing is creating what's usually called a psychological profile,

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:23.960
<v Speaker 7>but there's another type of profile to consider, the geographic profile.

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:30.720
<v Speaker 5>It's a technique used in criminal investigations to help detect

0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:36.320
<v Speaker 5>this focus on the offender. Even though these are often

0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:39.120
<v Speaker 5>stranger crimes, like a serial murder or a serial rape,

0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 5>it's typical to generate a lot of suspects, like literally hundreds,

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:47.399
<v Speaker 5>if not thousands, or tens of thousands of suspects, So

0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:50.600
<v Speaker 5>finding who you're looking for is like trying to find

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:54.520
<v Speaker 5>a needle in a haystack. Geographic profiling provides a way

0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:59.000
<v Speaker 5>to prioritize suspects hundreds or thousands. It gives you a

0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:02.359
<v Speaker 5>place to start looking for the needle in that haystack.

0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:07.120
<v Speaker 7>This is doctor Kim Rossmo, a professor of criminology at

0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:10.720
<v Speaker 7>Texas State University. He worked with law enforcement to help

0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:12.520
<v Speaker 7>develop the geographic profile.

0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:16.199
<v Speaker 5>What we do with geographic profiling is we take the

0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:19.840
<v Speaker 5>locations of a connected series of crime. So by a

0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:23.200
<v Speaker 5>connected series of crimes, I mean crimes that it's clear

0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:27.320
<v Speaker 5>the same offender has committed them. The role of geographic

0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:31.240
<v Speaker 5>profiling is to analyze the locations. It gives us a

0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 5>map of where to start our search. Doesn't give you

0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:36.679
<v Speaker 5>an X that marks the spot if you're looking for

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 5>a place to start. Geography is a very powerful tool.

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:43.680
<v Speaker 7>One of the people who worked closely with doctor Rossmo

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.760
<v Speaker 7>was Jim Treinham, a retired detective from the Metropolitan Police Department.

0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 7>Years after the murder stopped, they tried using the geographic profile.

0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 13>I had worked a lot with doctor Kim Rossmo. He's

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:01.719
<v Speaker 13>about the most brilliant of police officers that I know.

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 13>But he developed this process called geographic profiling where you

0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:11.400
<v Speaker 13>actually look at the different crime scenes. The more crime

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 13>scenes you have, the more that you can work with

0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:18.600
<v Speaker 13>his program and what he does is he's able to

0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:22.120
<v Speaker 13>feed all of these, like the abduction site, the body

0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:25.840
<v Speaker 13>recovery site, you know, things like that into the program.

0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 14>You come up with what he calls anchor points, and.

0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:33.640
<v Speaker 6>These are areas not like a specific point, but like

0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:37.520
<v Speaker 6>an area of the city that the suspect has some

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:42.280
<v Speaker 6>sort of significant connection to either his employer, his residents,

0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 6>things like that.

0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:48.360
<v Speaker 7>The process essentially narrows down a location where the killer

0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:52.120
<v Speaker 7>likely resides based on a map of the murders. It's

0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:55.600
<v Speaker 7>much more complicated than that, but it was very impressive

0:29:55.640 --> 0:29:58.000
<v Speaker 7>to writers Victoria Hester and Blame Pardo.

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 9>One of the things Jim Train of Dead when he

0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:05.520
<v Speaker 9>did this was he did what's called geographic profiling, and

0:30:05.560 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 9>they look at where the victims lived, where were they

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 9>picked up, where they have the encounter with the killer,

0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:15.840
<v Speaker 9>where were the bodies dumped. He looks at traffic patterns

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:19.959
<v Speaker 9>at the time and roads and everything else. They narrowed

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.360
<v Speaker 9>it down that the killer had some sort of a

0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 9>connection to Seint Elizabeth's Hospital, whereas we call it the

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 9>DC area CTS.

0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:33.360
<v Speaker 8>I guess right now they're in the middle of demolishing

0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:40.600
<v Speaker 8>it slash changing it into like townhouses. Very creepy mental hospital,

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:45.200
<v Speaker 8>and it's got very psych vibes to it, like it's

0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 8>a very old multiple buildings kind of. It's very condemned looking.

0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:52.760
<v Speaker 9>You know, if you were going to film a horror movie,

0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:55.640
<v Speaker 9>this would be a place to film a horror movie.

0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 3>It just the.

0:30:56.720 --> 0:31:00.920
<v Speaker 9>Windows have bars, and the bars are rusting. Even in

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:05.920
<v Speaker 9>broad daylight. It is a creepy place to be and

0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.320
<v Speaker 9>you're standing here and you realize, Okay, the killer had

0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:11.600
<v Speaker 9>some sort of connection to this. The first two victims

0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:14.440
<v Speaker 9>were found on the other side of the fence from

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:18.680
<v Speaker 9>Saint Elizabeths on the highway. I mean it's literally within

0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:23.000
<v Speaker 9>forty feet of the fence of Saint Elizabeths. So this guy,

0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:26.400
<v Speaker 9>he had some sort of a connection to it. Now,

0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:29.040
<v Speaker 9>it could be that he worked there, could be it

0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 9>was patient there. He had something that tied him to that.

0:31:33.480 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 9>It's an anchor point, they call it. You don't know

0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:39.200
<v Speaker 9>what that is because we don't know who the killer was,

0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:44.200
<v Speaker 9>but there's definitely at least one suspect that has a

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:48.920
<v Speaker 9>Saint Elizabeth's connection and some creepy coincidences that tie in

0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 9>to a lot of this.

0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:15.800
<v Speaker 7>The geographic profile done by doctor Kim Rossmo triangulated areas

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:18.960
<v Speaker 7>of interest in DC based on certain types of evidence

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:22.440
<v Speaker 7>and the locations of various murder sites, and as he

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:24.720
<v Speaker 7>tells us, the profile seemed to work.

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:29.520
<v Speaker 5>It was interesting because there's one specific location that showed

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:31.880
<v Speaker 5>up very high in the profile that we all thought

0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:35.000
<v Speaker 5>was interesting. Maybe had nothing to do with it, you know,

0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:38.400
<v Speaker 5>maybe just a coincidence, but it was certainly something that

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:41.240
<v Speaker 5>would be worth following up on in some sort of

0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:47.840
<v Speaker 5>later efforts. And that particular location was State Elizabeth Hospital.

0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:52.200
<v Speaker 5>I believe it was the oldest mental health hospital in

0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 5>the United States. I think it goes back to the

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:57.640
<v Speaker 5>Civil War, and it was located at twenty seven hundred

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:02.680
<v Speaker 5>Martin Luther King Avenue, East Washington, and it was ranked

0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:07.760
<v Speaker 5>very highly. Now, given that the offender's behavior in these

0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:12.400
<v Speaker 5>crimes was somewhat bizarre, not what we would consider good

0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:16.560
<v Speaker 5>behavior or healthy behavior, you have to think at least

0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:20.760
<v Speaker 5>about maybe he had served time there and knew that location.

0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:27.200
<v Speaker 5>Other possibilities maybe he worked there, maybe he visited somebody there.

0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 5>So you don't know. But the idea is, if you

0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 5>had a list of suspects, you could see anyone with

0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 5>a connection to the hospital would be worth exploring and

0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:39.840
<v Speaker 5>then seeing if DNA or fingerprints or something else matched.

0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:45.880
<v Speaker 7>Years later, in nineteen seventy seven, investigators did make a match.

0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:49.560
<v Speaker 7>They were able to identify one suspect with ties to

0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:52.760
<v Speaker 7>the hospital, and his name was Robert Askins.

0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:58.400
<v Speaker 9>Haskins had ties to Saint Elizabeth. He spent decades there

0:33:58.720 --> 0:33:59.440
<v Speaker 9>as patient.

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:04.960
<v Speaker 7>Here's writer Blaine Pardo again, Askins was.

0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:08.440
<v Speaker 9>A creepy individual on so many levels. He tried to

0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:11.839
<v Speaker 9>kill several prostitutes by poisoning them and did kill one

0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:16.480
<v Speaker 9>of them. Was confined for years at that location and

0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:22.439
<v Speaker 9>then released later killed another woman was tried for that.

0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:24.680
<v Speaker 9>Spent more time at CDEs.

0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:29.279
<v Speaker 7>As Blaine says, Askins was convicted for the nineteen thirty

0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 7>eight murder of a sex worker named Ruth MacDonald. He

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.880
<v Speaker 7>was admitted to Saint Elizabeth's Hospital sometime in the nineteen

0:34:35.960 --> 0:34:39.359
<v Speaker 7>fifties and then the following decade went to work there

0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:41.120
<v Speaker 7>as a computer technician.

0:34:41.800 --> 0:34:45.600
<v Speaker 9>And then in the late nineteen seventies he attacked two women,

0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 9>kidnapped them, posing as a police officer, took them back

0:34:49.640 --> 0:34:54.160
<v Speaker 9>to his place, held them hostage, sexually assaulted them, bathed them,

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:58.000
<v Speaker 9>and in one case, the woman got away, and the

0:34:58.040 --> 0:35:00.600
<v Speaker 9>other one he drove her out and let her go,

0:35:01.239 --> 0:35:04.439
<v Speaker 9>which was kind of creepy asking if you think about

0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:09.320
<v Speaker 9>he's capturing women, bringing him to his place bathing them,

0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:12.200
<v Speaker 9>which is just a creepy little thing all on its own.

0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.840
<v Speaker 9>And in his apartment they found one of his legal

0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:19.320
<v Speaker 9>documents when police searched it in nineteen seventy eight, which

0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:22.640
<v Speaker 9>is a half decade after all of this. They did

0:35:22.640 --> 0:35:25.160
<v Speaker 9>find a court document with the word tantamount in it,

0:35:25.920 --> 0:35:28.760
<v Speaker 9>and he was said to have used that word often

0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:33.440
<v Speaker 9>at work. He was gifted person. He was an intellectual person,

0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:39.000
<v Speaker 9>but he had very little control emotionally. He literally spent

0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:41.480
<v Speaker 9>the rest of his life in jail, but he had

0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:43.839
<v Speaker 9>distinct ties to see.

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:51.080
<v Speaker 7>Elizabeths Askins is largely considered to be one of the

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:55.120
<v Speaker 7>strongest suspects. He mostly fit the profile. He was a

0:35:55.120 --> 0:35:57.719
<v Speaker 7>black male who lived and worked in the region. He

0:35:57.760 --> 0:36:00.440
<v Speaker 7>was high school educated and employed at a key location.

0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:04.200
<v Speaker 7>And most of all, he also had a prior history

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 7>of violence and sexual abuse of women. When they searched

0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:12.000
<v Speaker 7>his home, police discovered a number of peculiar things. As

0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:14.960
<v Speaker 7>Blaine said, they found a court document where a judge

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:19.440
<v Speaker 7>described Askin's behavior as quote tantamount. But they also found

0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:24.360
<v Speaker 7>soiled women's scarves and a knife used in a prior crime. However,

0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:27.719
<v Speaker 7>none of it was direct evidence that could implicate him

0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:29.480
<v Speaker 7>in the Freeway phantom murders.

0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:33.480
<v Speaker 9>In this case, it happens to match up. That doesn't

0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:37.360
<v Speaker 9>mean he did it. They never found any physical evidence,

0:36:37.960 --> 0:36:41.239
<v Speaker 9>no source for the green rayon fibers that could tie

0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:44.280
<v Speaker 9>him back to that. I gotta tell you, at one point,

0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:46.880
<v Speaker 9>I was tempted to get some fentanyl and go to

0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:49.440
<v Speaker 9>his house and ask the owners there if I could

0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:51.560
<v Speaker 9>go on the basement and spray around to see if

0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:54.279
<v Speaker 9>there's traces of blood. But you know, there's no way

0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:58.240
<v Speaker 9>to introduce that conversation without sounding a bit crazy yourself.

0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:02.799
<v Speaker 9>And there's a part of me that wonders. You know,

0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 9>he had a house that was fenced, It had a

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:10.840
<v Speaker 9>garage he could pull in the back, it had a basement.

0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:15.240
<v Speaker 9>There's so many little things that it works for him.

0:37:16.000 --> 0:37:19.319
<v Speaker 9>But just because he matches the profile doesn't mean he

0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:22.880
<v Speaker 9>did it. It just means he happens to coincidentally match

0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:26.239
<v Speaker 9>the profile. If you watch any of the true crime

0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 9>stuff on TV, you'll see all the time where they go,

0:37:28.480 --> 0:37:31.600
<v Speaker 9>this guy matches the profile and he's got an iron

0:37:31.640 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 9>clad alibi, you know, And it happens a lot. If

0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:39.120
<v Speaker 9>you look at the psychological profile. They said the killer

0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:43.799
<v Speaker 9>was probably in his thirties, Haskins was older. He was

0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:47.480
<v Speaker 9>in his forties at the time of the freeway Fanom killings.

0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:51.399
<v Speaker 9>Does that mean he didn't do it? Can you exclude it? No,

0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:55.920
<v Speaker 9>it just means he doesn't one hundred percent fit the profile,

0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:59.680
<v Speaker 9>but every other aspect he kind of does. So there's

0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:02.200
<v Speaker 9>a lot of objectivity that you have to kind of

0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 9>step back and challenge yourself. Yeah, I'd love to tell

0:38:05.120 --> 0:38:08.480
<v Speaker 9>everybody I know for sure it's Robert Elwood Askins. I

0:38:08.560 --> 0:38:10.879
<v Speaker 9>know for a fact he did it, but we don't

0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:13.640
<v Speaker 9>have any physical evidence yet that can tie him to it.

0:38:13.719 --> 0:38:16.920
<v Speaker 9>I say yeah, because you know, DC has thrown out

0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:19.280
<v Speaker 9>a lout of their evidence, but there is some evidence

0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:23.360
<v Speaker 9>I still think in Maryland that could DNA wise be

0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:25.320
<v Speaker 9>tied to him or to the killer.

0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:30.920
<v Speaker 8>Another interesting thing about Askins is his not only history

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:35.840
<v Speaker 8>but known issues with women, which kind of stand out.

0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:37.720
<v Speaker 7>Here's writer Victoria Hester.

0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 12>Again.

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 8>He had a real issue with prostitutes, so much so

0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:46.640
<v Speaker 8>they started poisoning them, and he had an interesting relationship

0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:51.480
<v Speaker 8>with his mother that kind of shaped his hatred for women,

0:38:52.000 --> 0:38:55.319
<v Speaker 8>but he would always seek them out, obviously with the

0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:58.520
<v Speaker 8>poisoning of the prostitutes and the abduction of the other women.

0:38:59.120 --> 0:39:04.040
<v Speaker 8>So he kind of fits the profile in this case too.

0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:09.720
<v Speaker 8>Just for his insensitivity to people, especially women, it's just creepy.

0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:11.759
<v Speaker 9>The one thing it always stood out with me is

0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:14.439
<v Speaker 9>his mother remarried and he was living with his mother

0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:17.560
<v Speaker 9>and he wouldn't allow his stepfather to move in to

0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:18.120
<v Speaker 9>the house.

0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:20.280
<v Speaker 8>But she let him have that kind of control.

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:24.200
<v Speaker 9>She let him have that degree of control, And I'm like,

0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:29.239
<v Speaker 9>how abnormal is that because people get married all the

0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:33.279
<v Speaker 9>time and remarry. If you imagine somebody going, well, no,

0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:35.520
<v Speaker 9>you can't have him move in to the point where

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:37.920
<v Speaker 9>you'd go, okay, I'm not going to do it. Yeah,

0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:42.120
<v Speaker 9>until he was locked up and then she did. There's

0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:45.480
<v Speaker 9>parts of this that to me, it almost screams Askins.

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 9>But until somebody can find that physical connection, I'm struggling.

0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:55.080
<v Speaker 7>Retired MPD detective ROMAINN. Jingins had a lot to say

0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 7>about Robert Askins as a suspect.

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:01.240
<v Speaker 3>No, I didn't like Robin Askins, and I felt Robert

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 3>Askins was too old. I don't think that these young

0:40:05.239 --> 0:40:08.879
<v Speaker 3>girls would even have gone up to him. What would

0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.759
<v Speaker 3>be the conversation that he had, Maybe if he had

0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:14.960
<v Speaker 3>a gun, he said, get in the car. But then

0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:20.040
<v Speaker 3>you go back to Crockett. The first time she sounds

0:40:20.080 --> 0:40:21.680
<v Speaker 3>like she's upset, and.

0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:23.520
<v Speaker 7>You're talking about the first phone call she made.

0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:27.200
<v Speaker 3>He had the first phone call she made, the second one,

0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:31.359
<v Speaker 3>she doesn't seem to be upset. And if Askins had

0:40:31.440 --> 0:40:35.600
<v Speaker 3>grabbed her and she didn't know them, how would the

0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:38.360
<v Speaker 3>suspect know if her mother had seen them or not?

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:41.759
<v Speaker 3>If he didn't recognize her mother because he knew him. See,

0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:42.520
<v Speaker 3>he knew these.

0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:45.000
<v Speaker 7>Victims because she asked on the phone, do you know

0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:46.000
<v Speaker 7>if my mother saw me?

0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:51.239
<v Speaker 3>Yes? Yes, yes, yes, And he allowed them to make contact.

0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:55.840
<v Speaker 3>Missus McNeil. Darlena Johnson's mother said that she got a

0:40:55.880 --> 0:41:00.399
<v Speaker 3>strange phone call, I killed your daughter, Brenda Woodard. Her

0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.399
<v Speaker 3>body is left on the grounds out there where her

0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:07.640
<v Speaker 3>mama worked at the hospital. So was it just his.

0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:10.279
<v Speaker 7>Age that made you think it wasn't Robert Askins?

0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it was his age. And I know in reading

0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:19.719
<v Speaker 3>the FBI evidence reports, his hairs did not match the

0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:23.560
<v Speaker 3>negroid head hairs. None of the fiber evidence that was

0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:27.759
<v Speaker 3>removed in a search warrant at his house matched. They

0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:31.239
<v Speaker 3>could not find any type of green synthetic fibers that

0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:35.360
<v Speaker 3>matched these. But he did know about the word tantamount

0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:39.160
<v Speaker 3>because it was used quite often in describing him.

0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:40.279
<v Speaker 7>And in his court proceedings.

0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:43.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, judges, and generally that's where it comes from. You know,

0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:46.839
<v Speaker 3>if you look at the note, there's a saying now

0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:49.520
<v Speaker 3>that if somebody tells you who they are the first time,

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:53.440
<v Speaker 3>you best believe it. That person told us who he was.

0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:59.680
<v Speaker 3>Somebody else called him insensitive. You don't call yourself insensitive, Okay,

0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:05.880
<v Speaker 3>somebody else in some document made him the insensitive person.

0:42:07.840 --> 0:42:11.360
<v Speaker 7>Detective Jim Trainham agreed with the Romaine Jenkins. He believes

0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:15.800
<v Speaker 7>investigators were blinded by the word tantamount when.

0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:17.440
<v Speaker 14>You started looking at some of the suspect biology. You

0:42:17.480 --> 0:42:19.800
<v Speaker 14>see that coming up. Oh, he uses the word tanamou

0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:21.520
<v Speaker 14>in this document or that document.

0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:25.960
<v Speaker 13>In reading the search warrants and the investigation into him,

0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:30.319
<v Speaker 13>it was like the detective was really obsessed with him,

0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:34.160
<v Speaker 13>and he was really trying to push a square peg

0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:37.560
<v Speaker 13>into a round hole in my opinion. I mean, some

0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:40.279
<v Speaker 13>of the leaps that he was making to try to

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:45.400
<v Speaker 13>connect Askins to these girls was pretty kind of eye rolling.

0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:50.919
<v Speaker 13>Askins is now dead. He's never admitted to anything. When

0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:54.680
<v Speaker 13>some detectives did go down to question him, he was

0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:55.759
<v Speaker 13>extremely paranoid.

0:42:56.200 --> 0:42:59.359
<v Speaker 14>But then again, I think I would be due if

0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:02.080
<v Speaker 14>I'm in prison, somebody's trying to put the murder of

0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:05.480
<v Speaker 14>five girls on me. I don't think that's abnormal behavior,

0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:06.480
<v Speaker 14>though they thought it was.

0:43:08.280 --> 0:43:11.040
<v Speaker 7>Askins was given a life sentence for the kidnapping and

0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:14.960
<v Speaker 7>sexual assault of two women. He died on April thirtieth,

0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:18.440
<v Speaker 7>twenty ten, at the age of ninety one. One of

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.920
<v Speaker 7>the detectives communicated with Askins until his death, and he

0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:30.080
<v Speaker 7>continued to deny any involvement in the murders. Whether or

0:43:30.160 --> 0:43:33.000
<v Speaker 7>not Askins was the killer, the fact remains that Saint

0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:36.880
<v Speaker 7>Elizabeth's Hospital is a significant location in this case. I

0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:40.400
<v Speaker 7>visited the grounds last year with my producers Jamie and Trevor,

0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:44.120
<v Speaker 7>so we're standing here at the place where Saint Elizabeth's

0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:48.840
<v Speaker 7>Hospital stood in nineteen seventy one. This was the place

0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:53.560
<v Speaker 7>where one of the prime suspects, Robert Askins, was treated

0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:58.319
<v Speaker 7>for years, held actually, and because of its proximity to

0:43:58.440 --> 0:44:02.399
<v Speaker 7>so many important locations in the freeway phantom cases. That's

0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:05.000
<v Speaker 7>one of the reasons why people felt Robert Askins was

0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:11.520
<v Speaker 7>a good suspect because the geographic profile landed on this

0:44:11.600 --> 0:44:15.120
<v Speaker 7>location where we're standing as sort of the hub of

0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:19.240
<v Speaker 7>this killer's life, is that this would be an incredibly

0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:24.720
<v Speaker 7>important location for him, and Askins was held here for years.

0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:30.719
<v Speaker 7>And again, it's close. It's close to everything. I mean,

0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:34.560
<v Speaker 7>we haven't gone far from that neighborhood where Carol Spinks

0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:40.160
<v Speaker 7>lived and where Darlinia lived. It's close. It's all in

0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 7>the same I mean, for me, it's walkable. The hunt

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:52.359
<v Speaker 7>for suspects throughout the seventies was mostly unsuccessful, but in

0:44:52.400 --> 0:44:56.480
<v Speaker 7>a strange turn of events, investigators briefly determined that it

0:44:56.560 --> 0:45:00.359
<v Speaker 7>wasn't one person who was responsible, but an entire gang.

0:45:01.160 --> 0:45:02.359
<v Speaker 7>Here's Jim training again.

0:45:03.840 --> 0:45:06.279
<v Speaker 14>One of the things that happened right about this time

0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:09.840
<v Speaker 14>period was there was a series of rapes of adult women,

0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:13.200
<v Speaker 14>of kidnappings and rapes of adult women that were done

0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:16.480
<v Speaker 14>by this group of men called the Green Vega Rapist

0:45:17.040 --> 0:45:19.319
<v Speaker 14>and they were basically, I guess the best way to

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:20.840
<v Speaker 14>describe them is like a rape club.

0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:22.760
<v Speaker 15>I mean some of them would go out some knights,

0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:25.040
<v Speaker 15>others would go out other knights, and they would drive

0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:27.600
<v Speaker 15>a green vega around and they would kidnap women off

0:45:27.600 --> 0:45:30.160
<v Speaker 15>the street, look at bus stops and things like that,

0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:34.200
<v Speaker 15>take them to someplace, rape them, sodomize them, and then

0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:34.879
<v Speaker 15>let them go.

0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:38.920
<v Speaker 14>Some of the rapes were pretty brutal, and when they

0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:43.359
<v Speaker 14>finally got captured, one of them started making noise and saying, well,

0:45:43.640 --> 0:45:45.879
<v Speaker 14>I know who the Freeway Phantom is.

0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:55.560
<v Speaker 7>Next time on Freeway Phantom.

0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:59.359
<v Speaker 12>It was a gang that were going around abducting young

0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:00.959
<v Speaker 12>women in raping them.

0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:04.160
<v Speaker 9>The investigators for Freeway Fans said, well, maybe these guys

0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:08.120
<v Speaker 9>are the same guys, and they opened a multi jurisdictional

0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:11.680
<v Speaker 9>task for us that involved the FBI, the park police.

0:46:12.120 --> 0:46:13.319
<v Speaker 7>I think it got covered up.

0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:16.040
<v Speaker 3>As an adult, I see it differently than when I

0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:16.600
<v Speaker 3>was a kid.

0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Plus as a kid, I didn't know a lot of

0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:20.520
<v Speaker 2>stuff that had happened.

0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:25.760
<v Speaker 7>So why was she not included among the Freeway Phantom victims.

0:46:25.960 --> 0:46:29.279
<v Speaker 3>I have no idea. I guess mainly because she was

0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:31.120
<v Speaker 3>only victim found in the water.

0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:34.520
<v Speaker 9>And sometimes I get the feeling that police officers get

0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:37.279
<v Speaker 9>in their mind who they think did it, and in

0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:39.880
<v Speaker 9>their mind the cases are closed, even though nobody was

0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:40.879
<v Speaker 9>ever brought to.

0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:41.640
<v Speaker 4>Tryal for it.

0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Freeway Fantom is a production of iHeartRadio, Tenderfoot TV and

0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Black BARMETSVA. Our host is Selese Hilly. The show is

0:46:56.880 --> 0:47:00.800
<v Speaker 1>written by Trevor Young, Jamie Albright and Celess Hiley. Executive

0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:05.120
<v Speaker 1>producers on behalf of iHeartRadio include Matt Frederick and Alex Williams,

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.719
<v Speaker 1>with supervising producer Trevor Young. Executive producers on behalf of

0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Tenderfoot TV include Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay, with producers

0:47:13.280 --> 0:47:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Jamie Albright and Tracy Kaplan. Executive producers on behalf of

0:47:17.200 --> 0:47:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Black bar Mitzvah include myself, Jay Ellis and Aaron Bergman,

0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:25.920
<v Speaker 1>with producer Sidney Fools. Lead researcher is Jamie Albright. Artwork

0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:29.880
<v Speaker 1>by Mister Soul two one six, original music by Makeup

0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:34.040
<v Speaker 1>and Vanity Set special thanks to a teammate, Uta Beck

0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. Tenderfoot TV and iHeartMedia,

0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:41.360
<v Speaker 1>as well as Black bar Mitzvah have increased the reward

0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 1>for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the

0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:47.840
<v Speaker 1>person or persons responsible for their Freeway Fan of murders.

0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:51.000
<v Speaker 1>The previous reward of up to one hundred and fifty

0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:55.000
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars offered by the Metropolitan Police Department has been matched.

0:47:55.239 --> 0:47:57.840
<v Speaker 1>A new total reward of up to three hundred thousand

0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:01.000
<v Speaker 1>dollars is now being offered. You you have any information

0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:04.960
<v Speaker 1>relating to these unsolved crimes, contact the Metropolitan Police Department

0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:08.919
<v Speaker 1>at area code two zero two seven two seven nine

0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:13.879
<v Speaker 1>zero ninety nine. For more information, please visit freeway dashfanom

0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:18.200
<v Speaker 1>dot com. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV,

0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.959
<v Speaker 1>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:24.160
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite shows. Thanks for listening.