1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Freeway Fanom, a production of iHeartRadio, 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, and Black bar Mitzvah. The views and opinions 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, Black bar Mitzvah, or 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter that may 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: It began that evening. She had cooked dinner that afternoon 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: and had done her little chores and what have you, 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: and so she asked us she could go and visit 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: her boyfriend. She had a boyfriend at the time who 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: lived near the recreation center where she worked at. And so, 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: because you know, she had done all of that, my 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: parents allowed her to go and visit him, which meant 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: she had had to take one bus and go straight 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: up Martin Luther King to get to his house. And 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: so I remember Diane going there, and I remember my 18 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: parents telling her, you have to be back home by 19 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: ten o'clock. We used to have a strict rule that 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: when the street lights came on, we had to come inside. 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: It's now after ten o'clock. My father worked at Lorton 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 2: Reformatory in Norton, Virginia at the time, and he worked 23 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: the graveyard shift, so he had gone to work, but 24 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: my mom was home and she had noticed that, you know, 25 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: it's ten o'clock, eleven o'clock and twelve o'clock and Diane's 26 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 2: still not home. All I remember is, boy, is dying 27 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: going to get in trouble when she come home, because 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: it was, you know, after the time she was supposed 29 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: to be there, and I was just thinking that, you know, 30 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: she stayed out late. I never ever, ever thought that 31 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: anything happened to her. So I was able to eventually 32 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: doze off to sleep. And the next morning when my 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: father came home and my mother said that Diane never 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 2: came home. So that morning they wind up calling the police. 35 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: They took a police report, and at one point my 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: mother was trying to remember what Diane had on, and 37 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: she had given them a description of her clothing, and 38 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: I remember Dabora, my sister, intervening and saying, no, she 39 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: had changed and she put on a gold shirt and 40 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: the blue jeans. Police took the report and they left 41 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 2: later that morning. I remember my sister and I. We 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: went to the corner of South Capitol and montin Luther 43 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: King Avenue. There's a bus stop just in that block, 44 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: in front of a bank of trees, and so we thought, 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: what if she got off the bus and got hurt. 46 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: We went in the woods seeing if we could find Diane. 47 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: We didn't find her, but when I got back to 48 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: the house, my parents had been notified that there had 49 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: been a young female found and they wanted to have 50 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: them go down to Baltimore to the Medical Examiner's office 51 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: so they can see if that was die In. So 52 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: while they were in Baltimore to identify the body that 53 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 2: they found, the Evening Star newspaper came out and we 54 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: were reading in the newspaper that there was a body found. 55 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: And when they gave the description of what the person 56 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: was wearing, it was a gold shirt and blue jeans, 57 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: and without seeing anything more, we just knew that that 58 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: was die In. 59 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 3: The homicide detectives termed the cases the little girl cases. 60 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 4: This child was laying on the side of the road. 61 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 4: I wouldn't go no way, I would call up my house. 62 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 5: Those first five murders should have been a huge warning 63 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 5: bell for the police. 64 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 3: We just want to know what happened. This person must 65 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: have saw that. They were thinking that maybe it's just 66 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 3: one person, and he says, oh, they need to know. 67 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 6: This is me. 68 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 4: I thought that they would catch him. I thought it 69 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 4: was just a matter of time. 70 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 7: I'm Celeste Hedley and this is Freeway Phantom. 71 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: My family had just moved to Washington, d C. From 72 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: al Passo, Texas in nineteen sixty nine, so we were 73 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: movies in DC. 74 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 7: This is Patricia Williams, sister of Diane Williams, who would 75 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 7: be the sixth confirmed victim of the Freeway Fantom. 76 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: Having to uproute and move to Washington, d C. I 77 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: was still trying to get acclimated to living in the 78 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 2: city and living in an area where it wasn't to 79 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: me as safe as it was when we were living 80 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: in Outpass of Texas. But by the time nineteen seventy 81 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: two came along, we were pretty much Washingtonians. 82 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 6: You know. 83 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: We went to school, we all worked at the recreation 84 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 2: centers during the summertime. We had friends and we would 85 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: go to back then they had house parties. That's what 86 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: reminds me of seventy one. In seventy two, earth wind 87 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 2: and fire going to the outdoor concerts that they would 88 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 2: have during the summertime for kids. And intertwined in that 89 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: era was you know, the Freeway Phantom, because while we 90 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: were young and still having fun, I knew, We knew, 91 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: Diane knew that there was a serial killer in Washington, 92 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: d C. By the time nineteen seventy two came around, 93 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 2: we were all aware that some girls had been murdered 94 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: and it was attributed to the Freeway Phantom. 95 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 7: By this point, the Freeway fandom had killed five young 96 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 7: black girls across the DC area, but there had been 97 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 7: no activity since November of the previous year. Still, Patricia 98 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 7: says that those murders hung eerily over her family. 99 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: So the feeling was almost atypical because I believe it 100 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: took three, possibly even four girls to be murdered before 101 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: they got any kind of recognition that Houston we have 102 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: a problem. The community was upset about that and that 103 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: maybe they had been made aware sooner that there's a 104 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: potential killer out there of young girls to watch your 105 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: orders quickly, maybe we would have had less tragedy. But 106 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: it took them too long to bring the public or 107 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: make the public aware that there was a killer out there. 108 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: And so a lot of people in the community were 109 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: upset about it. 110 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 7: But Patricia says that the best her family could do 111 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 7: was to keep living their lives. 112 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: As far as myself and even you know, like my 113 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: sisters and stuff, we were aware of it. If it 114 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: doesn't happen right in your negative woods, you may be 115 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: aware of it, but it doesn't affect you. So we 116 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: weren't so frightened that we stayed inside and behind locked doors. 117 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: We weren't cautious, you know, there's never believing that anything 118 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: like that could happen to us. 119 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 7: Patricia had a large family, but she says she was 120 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 7: closest with her sister Diane. 121 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: There were six of us, six siblings. Diane was the oldest, 122 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: she was seventeen. Of course, being the oldest, we looked 123 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: up to her. We would always go to church, and 124 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: she actually said she was going to get baptized, and 125 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: we followed her and we were all baptized following Diane's lead. 126 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: Diane and I were very close. We actually shared the 127 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 2: same bedroom, so we were always close. But at seventeen 128 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: years old, Diane was starting to date, and so even 129 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 2: though we were close, we weren't as close as we 130 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: used to be because I'm a younger sister. Some oldest sisters, 131 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: you know, they don't want to be around that not 132 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: they don't want to be around. But I was younger, 133 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: and what do I know? 134 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 7: But then on September fifth, nineteen seventy two, seventeen year 135 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 7: old Diane Williams went missing. It had been ten months 136 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 7: since the Freeway fandom had killed his fifth victim, Brenda Woodard, 137 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 7: but now it seemed as though he had returned. 138 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 8: She had visited her boyfriend, which was a pretty normal 139 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 8: thing for her to do, and was told to be 140 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 8: home by tenth the night before. 141 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 7: This is writer Victoria Hester, who co wrote a book 142 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 7: on the Freeway Phantom with her father Blaine Pardo. 143 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 8: Her boyfriend escorted her to the bus stop, so we 144 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 8: know that she got at least to the bus. The 145 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 8: bus driver did confirm that she got off at a 146 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 8: bus stop, which was at nineteenth Street in Benning Road. 147 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 8: It really didn't make any sense how she ended up 148 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 8: where she ended up. We have no idea how she 149 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 8: got where she was based on where she was dropped off, 150 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 8: whether she got a ride from someone else, or whether 151 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 8: she walked a different way home. It was just odd, 152 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 8: especially that late at night. 153 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 9: Yeah, it wasn't the bus stop that you would get 154 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 9: off at to go home. It was earlier, and it 155 00:09:58,720 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 9: made no sense. 156 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 7: This is Blaine Pardo. 157 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 9: The bus driver was fairly certain of where she got off, 158 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 9: and then she got off alone. But it doesn't make 159 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 9: sense that she would get off the bus there. There's 160 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 9: a reason she got off, and we'll never know what 161 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 9: that was. But the killer wasn't with her then, So 162 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 9: it's confusing. But it also tells me that he wasn't 163 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 9: stalking these girls. If you think about it, so many 164 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 9: of them are caught going to a grocery store running 165 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 9: an errand it's not like something that's a routine where 166 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 9: he's following them for several days and knows their pattern 167 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 9: and how to intercept them. These are all victims of opportunity. 168 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 8: Her body was found the very next day. She was 169 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 8: reported missing by her father when he came home at 170 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 8: eight am that morning. Her father actually ended up driving 171 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 8: by her body on his way home from work. He 172 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 8: was a corrections officer at Lorton Prison. I didn't realize 173 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 8: that he had driven right past his own daughter's body. 174 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 8: He didn't know at that point that she was even missing. 175 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 8: Since he worked the night shift. He was just going 176 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 8: straight home and that's when he realized she wasn't there. 177 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 7: At about seven am that day, the body had been 178 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 7: found by a trucker who had pulled off the highway. 179 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 7: It was alongside it two ninety five, just south of 180 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 7: the Maryland d C Line. Diane's parents went to Baltimore 181 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 7: to identify her body, and while they were gone, Patricia 182 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 7: and her siblings saw the news of their sister's death 183 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 7: in the evening Star newspaper. 184 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 2: I remember all of us screaming and crying and just 185 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: really breaking down because we found out that, you know, 186 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 2: our sister had been murdered. I remember the next door 187 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 2: neighbors they later had said that they heard all this 188 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: commotion going on next door. They didn't know what was 189 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 2: going on, but obviously we were upset enough that we 190 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: calls concern with the neighbors because of our reaction to 191 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: reading that. So when our parents did come home, they 192 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: of course told us that yes, that in fact was 193 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: Diane that was murdered. At that time, our parents didn't 194 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: share a lot of information with us, so I didn't 195 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: know a lot. But at that time, because Diane's body 196 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 2: was found along a freeway they had almost immediately linked 197 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: to the freeway phantom. I don't even know if they 198 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 2: had evidence other than her body being found on the 199 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: freeway to say that she was in fact a victim, 200 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: but the media had pretty much linked her to that 201 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: as being a victim. 202 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 7: But there was evidence linking Diane to the previous murders. 203 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 7: The bus stop where she was last seen was just 204 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 7: down the street from the location of Carol Spink's and 205 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 7: Darlinia Johnson's abduction sites, and she was found just off 206 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 7: the I two ninety five freeway, about two miles from 207 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 7: where she lived. According to the police report, Diane was 208 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 7: wearing the clothes that she went missing in. Like previous victims, 209 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 7: her shoes were removed, but this time they were carefully 210 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 7: placed next to her body. The name Diane was also 211 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 7: written in one of her white sneakers, and police found 212 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 7: a dollar and twenty six cents in the pocket of 213 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 7: her genes. According to the autopsy report, the official cause 214 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 7: of death was strangulation. There was no sign of sexual assault, 215 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 7: but semen was found on her clothing. Police believed this 216 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 7: was because Diana had had sex with her boyfriend the 217 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 7: night before, but the boyfriend told authorities they didn't have 218 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 7: sex that evening. Despite this, police chose to not have 219 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 7: the semen officially tested. 220 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 8: The interesting thing about Diane is that her shoes were 221 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 8: not missing from her body, unlike the other victims where 222 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 8: one shoe was missing or bow shoes, but her shoelaces 223 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 8: were missing, which is interesting because that's deliberate. 224 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 7: Here's Victoria Hester again. 225 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 8: You don't just run out of your shoelaces or they 226 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,479 Speaker 8: just disappear. You deliberately have to take the shoelaces out. 227 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 8: So was that done to tie her up at some 228 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 8: point and he forgot about it, or was this done 229 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 8: as a souvenir to take home and remember it by 230 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 8: It kind of seems like little things like shoes or 231 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 8: books are missing from each of the girls, and it 232 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 8: does kind of seem like a souvenir type deal for 233 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 8: the killer, which is another creepy factor that there's a 234 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 8: box sitting in someone's basement somewhere that they may not 235 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 8: know why these random things are there. And the other 236 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 8: thing about her was that she had money in her 237 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 8: pocket of her genes, so we know that the motivation 238 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 8: here was definitely not money in it was to kill her. 239 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 8: Her cause of death was strangulation as well, and she 240 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 8: did have bruises on a ribcage, a scrape on her elbow, 241 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 8: and fingernail marks on her neck. 242 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 7: The police report suggests that this evidence was submitted to 243 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 7: the FBI. However, the FBI had just been handed another 244 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 7: significant case. 245 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 10: Richard Nixon's future as the President of the United States 246 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 10: has now apparently moved beyond his control on Capitol Hill. 247 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 10: The House Judiciary Committee has started a formal inquiry into 248 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 10: whether it should approve the impeachment of the president. The 249 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 10: Senate Judiciary Committee is hearing proposals that would shift control 250 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 10: of the Watergate investigation from the White House to a 251 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 10: court appointed prosecutor who could investigate the president himself. 252 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 7: In June of that year, the Watergate scandal broke, and 253 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 7: this diverted the FBI's attention and manpower away from the 254 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 7: Freeway phantom case, which meant that the investigation, while technically ongoing, 255 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 7: was relegated to not obscurity, just the shadows. The case 256 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 7: was not forgotten, but it was also not top of 257 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 7: mind for law enforcement, and that's putting it lightly. 258 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: There were things that happened where the Freeway Phantom and 259 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: also other murdered victims, their cases were not a priority 260 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: over something else that may have been going on in Washington, DC. 261 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: Everybody knows that the code of the case gets the 262 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: less chance of your actually closing the case. 263 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 7: The fallout from Diane Williams murder was even more chaotic 264 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 7: than the previous five murders. Community member Wilma Harper wrote 265 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 7: about this in her book The Mystery of the Freeway Phantom. 266 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 7: In fact, she had some relation to Diane Williams. 267 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 11: As she writes, on September sixth, nineteen seventy two, my 268 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 11: brother Leon Williams had promised to come to my house 269 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 11: and help plant tulip bulbs. At five o'clock PM, the 270 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 11: telephone rang. It was Leon. He said, the girl that 271 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 11: was reported missing is my Diane and she is dead. 272 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 11: My reply, I'll come over immediately. 273 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 7: Wilma says. The media frenzy around Diane's death was also 274 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 7: bigger than it had been for previous victims. 275 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 11: Circumstances surrounding Diane's death were similar to those present in 276 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 11: the other murders committed, giving much rise to much publicity 277 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 11: and media headlines blaring. After ten months freeway phantom strikes again. 278 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 11: Within a period of eighteen months, six black girls had 279 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 11: been killed and their bodies placed on the freeways around Washington, 280 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 11: d C. None of the murder cases had been solved. 281 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 11: Who is this mysterious person? Is there a freeway phantom? 282 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 7: As a result of this frenzy, the Williams family was 283 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 7: bombarded with strange calls and visitors. 284 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 11: The family also had to deal with the lunatic fringe. 285 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 11: Some people with sadistic tendencies presented extreme anguish to the 286 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 11: family by telephone. Calls came in around the clock, increasing 287 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 11: their anxiety during the day and disturbing their sleep at night. 288 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 11: They received four particularly sadistic calls, obviously from the same 289 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 11: person at two o'clock am, who said in a sinister voice, 290 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 11: I killed your daughter. Others asked for Diane by name. 291 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 11: Some of the messages were obscene. 292 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 7: Lastly, wilmah Harper writes that while Diane's body was being 293 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 7: prepared for the funeral, the family became aware of evidence 294 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 7: that had been ignored by the mayor lnd Coroner's office. 295 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 11: There seems to have been no end to the horrors 296 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 11: that confronted the family during that time. When the funeral 297 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 11: arrangements were being made. When Diane's body was taken in 298 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 11: Mason's funeral parlor, the mortician found certain evidence that she 299 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 11: thought was worthy of police scrutiny. She insisted that a 300 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 11: pathology test be made that night before evidence was destroyed 301 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 11: by embalming fluids. Seamen and hair of a certain color 302 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 11: and texture were found in the mouth of the deceased. 303 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 11: The autopsy conducted the coroner in Maryland had not revealed 304 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 11: these facts, had there been gross negligence on the part 305 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 11: of the persons in the coroner's office. Was forensic medicine 306 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 11: the most fascinating field of police work neglected. How did 307 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 11: the hare get inside of the mouth of the corpse? 308 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 11: Was this a clue planted or left by the Freeway phantom. 309 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 7: We don't know the answer to these questions, but we 310 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 7: do know that Diane Williams was the last confirmed victim 311 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 7: of the Freeway fan. With no new murders and federal 312 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 7: authorities occupied with Watergate, it seemed like the investigation had 313 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 7: hit a wall. However, a small team of investigators continued 314 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 7: on the case for the next few years, including now 315 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 7: retired FBI special Agent Barry culvert, who says that those 316 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 7: years after the murders stopped were particularly difficult. 317 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 12: The main thing you were hoping, sometime at one of 318 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 12: these crime scenes that the assailant would drop something, he 319 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 12: would lose something that was his, and you didn't do it. 320 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 12: We just didn't have it. We couldn't find anything like that, 321 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 12: even a confession with no backup evidence. They could come 322 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 12: to court and retract their statement, and you're really kind 323 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 12: of at a loss. We just didn't have that many 324 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 12: witnesses that saw a victim with somebody and then they 325 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 12: never saw him again. 326 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 7: Barry says that the best they could do was to 327 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 7: start building a profile of their suspect. The first thing 328 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 7: most people agreed on, Barry tells us, is that the 329 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 7: killer was likely someone from the neighborhood. 330 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 12: I think these girls, if they got in a car 331 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 12: and went with somebody, I think they would have seen them. 332 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 12: They would have recognized them. May not know them by name, 333 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 12: but they've seen them where they hang out, where they go, 334 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 12: and if he said we out tonight and let me 335 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 12: give you a ride, they might get in the car 336 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 12: with him. As far as getting in a car with 337 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 12: a stranger, something tells me that that may not have happened. 338 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 12: We were looking for someone that there would be some familiarity. 339 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 12: It's somebody that they've seen from Oxen Hill Athletic Club. 340 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 12: It could be a coach, it could be a basketball coach. 341 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 12: It could be somebody that, oh, I know him, we 342 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 12: see him at rec center, or we see him when 343 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 12: we go up here to school at night. 344 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 7: This was a sentiment shared by a former NPD detective 345 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 7: from Jenkins. The lead investigator on. 346 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: This case, whoever did the cases, fit right into the community, 347 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,239 Speaker 3: never raised any suspicion at all, and that's how he 348 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: was able to do what he did. Nobody would would 349 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 3: question if they saw him talking to a little girl 350 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: or anything. They wouldn't question it. 351 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 7: Because of this and other evidence, many felt that the 352 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 7: killer had to be a black male, most likely in 353 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 7: his thirties. 354 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 3: I concluded from looking at the reports from the FBI, 355 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: negroid head hairs unlike the victims, were found on the victims. 356 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 3: When you look at the crime scenes, there were no 357 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 3: black detectives on the scenes close enough that their head 358 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: could have dropped on these victims. So where did the 359 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 3: black head hair which was not the victims? 360 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 7: You know? 361 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 3: So that is what I was basing it on, you know. 362 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 7: And they had to have fit into the community without. 363 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 3: Right, and it wasn't unusual for white males to be 364 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 3: in the neighborhood. And you know who was a white 365 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 3: male who came to the neighborhood almost every week, the 366 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 3: assurance man. Everybody had a grandmother had a nickel pile, see, 367 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 3: and he come there every week and collect his money, 368 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 3: and nobody never robbed him or anything every week, so 369 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 3: nobody said anything about him. 370 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 7: In your opinion, it wouldn't be a white person. 371 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: Forensically, I would say that's correct. It was not a Caucasian. 372 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: It wasn't a white person. 373 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 13: No. 374 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 7: Romayne concedes that some of the official suspects were white, 375 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 7: but she never believed it. 376 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 3: They had some white guys who were over in the 377 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: forty nine hundred block of Benning Road Southeast, picking up 378 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 3: black females off the street and stuff like that. But 379 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 3: if you go by the forensic evidence, and that's that's 380 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 3: the problem, if it doesn't match, you know, if it's 381 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: negro headhairs, why would nigro head has be on the 382 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 3: victim's underclothes if some black male hadn't been close to her, 383 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 3: you see what I'm saying. So, and I think Brenda 384 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 3: Wood it is the only one where substantial Caucasian has 385 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: were found, but they weren't able to do anything with 386 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 3: them because I think in one case, some of the 387 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 3: has were dyed red. You know how many white males 388 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: you know dye they hair red. You know, So we 389 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 3: don't know whether it's cross contamination or not. We don't know. 390 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 7: However, someone else who reviewed the case had a different 391 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 7: perspective on the suspect. Former PG County homicide Detective Hillary 392 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 7: Zukolowski believes it may not have been someone from within 393 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 7: the community. 394 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 4: Well, you know, typically you'll have a conversation with the 395 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 4: people you work with, and you know, everybody has their 396 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 4: own series, as I did, and I kind of agree 397 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 4: with everybody else. We thought perhaps that it may have 398 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 4: been somebody that was transient. That area is highly transient. 399 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 4: People are coming though and out of the time. Thought 400 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 4: perhaps it could have been somebody there temporarily working for 401 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: the government or even perhaps a military person because they're 402 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 4: always coming and going to that area. And we thought 403 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: it's a good possibility that somebody was there for a 404 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 4: period of time. And since they stopped so abruptly we 405 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 4: thought that was a possibility that somebody may have been 406 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 4: transferred out of that area. I mean, it was off speculation. 407 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 4: Nobody really knew anything at the time. It was just 408 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 4: nothing but guesswork. 409 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 7: To some degree, the transient idea makes a lot of sense. 410 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 7: It was very common for serial killers in the seventies 411 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 7: to travel, leaving behind bodies in various places. Some examples 412 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 7: include Samuel Little and the Golden State Killer. And even 413 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 7: though she still believes it was a blackmail from the community, 414 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 7: Romayne Jenkins admits that the FBI did investigate similar cases 415 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 7: across the country, looking anywhere for a connection. 416 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 3: So if you look at all the submissions, I mean 417 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 3: they traveled to Connecticut because Connecticut had some cases similar, 418 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 3: not the exact, but similar. They went to Connecticut, they 419 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 3: went to upstate New York, they went to New Jersey, 420 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 3: they went everywhere that there was a series of pattern 421 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 3: cases where females were raped and strangled and thrown on 422 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 3: the highway. And some of these cases were solved. They 423 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 3: even interviewed the suspect in those cases, so lots of 424 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: work was done. 425 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 7: It was but then how to explain the fact that 426 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 7: the freeway phantom stopped killing. Romayne has an idea about 427 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 7: that as well. 428 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 3: I think he was upset. He felt he had vindicated himself, 429 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 3: he had gotten authorities or whoever to see that he 430 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 3: meant business. It was no need. How often do you 431 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 3: find serial killers who killed women for years and they 432 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 3: get married, they become what is it? One guy? Was 433 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 3: it a bek btk? Yeah? You know these people return 434 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 3: to society and act like they hadn't done a thing. 435 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 7: When trying to determine the characteristics of your suspect, what 436 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 7: you're doing is creating what's usually called a psychological profile, 437 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 7: but there's another type of profile to consider, the geographic profile. 438 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 5: It's a technique used in criminal investigations to help detect 439 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 5: this focus on the offender. Even though these are often 440 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 5: stranger crimes, like a serial murder or a serial rape, 441 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 5: it's typical to generate a lot of suspects, like literally hundreds, 442 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 5: if not thousands, or tens of thousands of suspects, So 443 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 5: finding who you're looking for is like trying to find 444 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 5: a needle in a haystack. Geographic profiling provides a way 445 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 5: to prioritize suspects hundreds or thousands. It gives you a 446 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 5: place to start looking for the needle in that haystack. 447 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 7: This is doctor Kim Rossmo, a professor of criminology at 448 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 7: Texas State University. He worked with law enforcement to help 449 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 7: develop the geographic profile. 450 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 5: What we do with geographic profiling is we take the 451 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 5: locations of a connected series of crime. So by a 452 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 5: connected series of crimes, I mean crimes that it's clear 453 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 5: the same offender has committed them. The role of geographic 454 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 5: profiling is to analyze the locations. It gives us a 455 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 5: map of where to start our search. Doesn't give you 456 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 5: an X that marks the spot if you're looking for 457 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 5: a place to start. Geography is a very powerful tool. 458 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 7: One of the people who worked closely with doctor Rossmo 459 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 7: was Jim Treinham, a retired detective from the Metropolitan Police Department. 460 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 7: Years after the murder stopped, they tried using the geographic profile. 461 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 13: I had worked a lot with doctor Kim Rossmo. He's 462 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 13: about the most brilliant of police officers that I know. 463 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 13: But he developed this process called geographic profiling where you 464 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 13: actually look at the different crime scenes. The more crime 465 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 13: scenes you have, the more that you can work with 466 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 13: his program and what he does is he's able to 467 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 13: feed all of these, like the abduction site, the body 468 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 13: recovery site, you know, things like that into the program. 469 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 14: You come up with what he calls anchor points, and. 470 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 6: These are areas not like a specific point, but like 471 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 6: an area of the city that the suspect has some 472 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 6: sort of significant connection to either his employer, his residents, 473 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 6: things like that. 474 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 7: The process essentially narrows down a location where the killer 475 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 7: likely resides based on a map of the murders. It's 476 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 7: much more complicated than that, but it was very impressive 477 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 7: to writers Victoria Hester and Blame Pardo. 478 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 9: One of the things Jim Train of Dead when he 479 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 9: did this was he did what's called geographic profiling, and 480 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 9: they look at where the victims lived, where were they 481 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 9: picked up, where they have the encounter with the killer, 482 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 9: where were the bodies dumped. He looks at traffic patterns 483 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,959 Speaker 9: at the time and roads and everything else. They narrowed 484 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 9: it down that the killer had some sort of a 485 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 9: connection to Seint Elizabeth's Hospital, whereas we call it the 486 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 9: DC area CTS. 487 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 8: I guess right now they're in the middle of demolishing 488 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 8: it slash changing it into like townhouses. Very creepy mental hospital, 489 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 8: and it's got very psych vibes to it, like it's 490 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 8: a very old multiple buildings kind of. It's very condemned looking. 491 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 9: You know, if you were going to film a horror movie, 492 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 9: this would be a place to film a horror movie. 493 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 3: It just the. 494 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 9: Windows have bars, and the bars are rusting. Even in 495 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 9: broad daylight. It is a creepy place to be and 496 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 9: you're standing here and you realize, Okay, the killer had 497 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 9: some sort of connection to this. The first two victims 498 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 9: were found on the other side of the fence from 499 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 9: Saint Elizabeths on the highway. I mean it's literally within 500 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 9: forty feet of the fence of Saint Elizabeths. So this guy, 501 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 9: he had some sort of a connection to it. Now, 502 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 9: it could be that he worked there, could be it 503 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 9: was patient there. He had something that tied him to that. 504 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 9: It's an anchor point, they call it. You don't know 505 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 9: what that is because we don't know who the killer was, 506 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 9: but there's definitely at least one suspect that has a 507 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 9: Saint Elizabeth's connection and some creepy coincidences that tie in 508 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 9: to a lot of this. 509 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 7: The geographic profile done by doctor Kim Rossmo triangulated areas 510 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 7: of interest in DC based on certain types of evidence 511 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 7: and the locations of various murder sites, and as he 512 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 7: tells us, the profile seemed to work. 513 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 5: It was interesting because there's one specific location that showed 514 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 5: up very high in the profile that we all thought 515 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 5: was interesting. Maybe had nothing to do with it, you know, 516 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 5: maybe just a coincidence, but it was certainly something that 517 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 5: would be worth following up on in some sort of 518 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 5: later efforts. And that particular location was State Elizabeth Hospital. 519 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 5: I believe it was the oldest mental health hospital in 520 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 5: the United States. I think it goes back to the 521 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 5: Civil War, and it was located at twenty seven hundred 522 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 5: Martin Luther King Avenue, East Washington, and it was ranked 523 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 5: very highly. Now, given that the offender's behavior in these 524 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 5: crimes was somewhat bizarre, not what we would consider good 525 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 5: behavior or healthy behavior, you have to think at least 526 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 5: about maybe he had served time there and knew that location. 527 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 5: Other possibilities maybe he worked there, maybe he visited somebody there. 528 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 5: So you don't know. But the idea is, if you 529 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 5: had a list of suspects, you could see anyone with 530 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 5: a connection to the hospital would be worth exploring and 531 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 5: then seeing if DNA or fingerprints or something else matched. 532 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 7: Years later, in nineteen seventy seven, investigators did make a match. 533 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 7: They were able to identify one suspect with ties to 534 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 7: the hospital, and his name was Robert Askins. 535 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 9: Haskins had ties to Saint Elizabeth. He spent decades there 536 00:33:58,720 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 9: as patient. 537 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 7: Here's writer Blaine Pardo again, Askins was. 538 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 9: A creepy individual on so many levels. He tried to 539 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 9: kill several prostitutes by poisoning them and did kill one 540 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 9: of them. Was confined for years at that location and 541 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 9: then released later killed another woman was tried for that. 542 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 9: Spent more time at CDEs. 543 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 7: As Blaine says, Askins was convicted for the nineteen thirty 544 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 7: eight murder of a sex worker named Ruth MacDonald. He 545 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 7: was admitted to Saint Elizabeth's Hospital sometime in the nineteen 546 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 7: fifties and then the following decade went to work there 547 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 7: as a computer technician. 548 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 9: And then in the late nineteen seventies he attacked two women, 549 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 9: kidnapped them, posing as a police officer, took them back 550 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 9: to his place, held them hostage, sexually assaulted them, bathed them, 551 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 9: and in one case, the woman got away, and the 552 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 9: other one he drove her out and let her go, 553 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 9: which was kind of creepy asking if you think about 554 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 9: he's capturing women, bringing him to his place bathing them, 555 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 9: which is just a creepy little thing all on its own. 556 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 9: And in his apartment they found one of his legal 557 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 9: documents when police searched it in nineteen seventy eight, which 558 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 9: is a half decade after all of this. They did 559 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 9: find a court document with the word tantamount in it, 560 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 9: and he was said to have used that word often 561 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 9: at work. He was gifted person. He was an intellectual person, 562 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 9: but he had very little control emotionally. He literally spent 563 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 9: the rest of his life in jail, but he had 564 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 9: distinct ties to see. 565 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 7: Elizabeths Askins is largely considered to be one of the 566 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 7: strongest suspects. He mostly fit the profile. He was a 567 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 7: black male who lived and worked in the region. He 568 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 7: was high school educated and employed at a key location. 569 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 7: And most of all, he also had a prior history 570 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 7: of violence and sexual abuse of women. When they searched 571 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 7: his home, police discovered a number of peculiar things. As 572 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 7: Blaine said, they found a court document where a judge 573 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 7: described Askin's behavior as quote tantamount. But they also found 574 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 7: soiled women's scarves and a knife used in a prior crime. However, 575 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 7: none of it was direct evidence that could implicate him 576 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 7: in the Freeway phantom murders. 577 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 9: In this case, it happens to match up. That doesn't 578 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 9: mean he did it. They never found any physical evidence, 579 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 9: no source for the green rayon fibers that could tie 580 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 9: him back to that. I gotta tell you, at one point, 581 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 9: I was tempted to get some fentanyl and go to 582 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 9: his house and ask the owners there if I could 583 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 9: go on the basement and spray around to see if 584 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 9: there's traces of blood. But you know, there's no way 585 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,240 Speaker 9: to introduce that conversation without sounding a bit crazy yourself. 586 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 9: And there's a part of me that wonders. You know, 587 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 9: he had a house that was fenced, It had a 588 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 9: garage he could pull in the back, it had a basement. 589 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 9: There's so many little things that it works for him. 590 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 9: But just because he matches the profile doesn't mean he 591 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 9: did it. It just means he happens to coincidentally match 592 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 9: the profile. If you watch any of the true crime 593 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 9: stuff on TV, you'll see all the time where they go, 594 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 9: this guy matches the profile and he's got an iron 595 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 9: clad alibi, you know, And it happens a lot. If 596 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 9: you look at the psychological profile. They said the killer 597 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 9: was probably in his thirties, Haskins was older. He was 598 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 9: in his forties at the time of the freeway Fanom killings. 599 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 9: Does that mean he didn't do it? Can you exclude it? No, 600 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 9: it just means he doesn't one hundred percent fit the profile, 601 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 9: but every other aspect he kind of does. So there's 602 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 9: a lot of objectivity that you have to kind of 603 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 9: step back and challenge yourself. Yeah, I'd love to tell 604 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 9: everybody I know for sure it's Robert Elwood Askins. I 605 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 9: know for a fact he did it, but we don't 606 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 9: have any physical evidence yet that can tie him to it. 607 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 9: I say yeah, because you know, DC has thrown out 608 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 9: a lout of their evidence, but there is some evidence 609 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 9: I still think in Maryland that could DNA wise be 610 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 9: tied to him or to the killer. 611 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 8: Another interesting thing about Askins is his not only history 612 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 8: but known issues with women, which kind of stand out. 613 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 7: Here's writer Victoria Hester. 614 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 12: Again. 615 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 8: He had a real issue with prostitutes, so much so 616 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 8: they started poisoning them, and he had an interesting relationship 617 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 8: with his mother that kind of shaped his hatred for women, 618 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 8: but he would always seek them out, obviously with the 619 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 8: poisoning of the prostitutes and the abduction of the other women. 620 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 8: So he kind of fits the profile in this case too. 621 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 8: Just for his insensitivity to people, especially women, it's just creepy. 622 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 9: The one thing it always stood out with me is 623 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,439 Speaker 9: his mother remarried and he was living with his mother 624 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 9: and he wouldn't allow his stepfather to move in to 625 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 9: the house. 626 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 8: But she let him have that kind of control. 627 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 9: She let him have that degree of control, And I'm like, 628 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 9: how abnormal is that because people get married all the 629 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 9: time and remarry. If you imagine somebody going, well, no, 630 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 9: you can't have him move in to the point where 631 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 9: you'd go, okay, I'm not going to do it. Yeah, 632 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 9: until he was locked up and then she did. There's 633 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 9: parts of this that to me, it almost screams Askins. 634 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 9: But until somebody can find that physical connection, I'm struggling. 635 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 7: Retired MPD detective ROMAINN. Jingins had a lot to say 636 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 7: about Robert Askins as a suspect. 637 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 3: No, I didn't like Robin Askins, and I felt Robert 638 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 3: Askins was too old. I don't think that these young 639 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 3: girls would even have gone up to him. What would 640 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 3: be the conversation that he had, Maybe if he had 641 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 3: a gun, he said, get in the car. But then 642 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 3: you go back to Crockett. The first time she sounds 643 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 3: like she's upset, and. 644 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 7: You're talking about the first phone call she made. 645 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 3: He had the first phone call she made, the second one, 646 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 3: she doesn't seem to be upset. And if Askins had 647 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 3: grabbed her and she didn't know them, how would the 648 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 3: suspect know if her mother had seen them or not? 649 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 3: If he didn't recognize her mother because he knew him. See, 650 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 3: he knew these. 651 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 7: Victims because she asked on the phone, do you know 652 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 7: if my mother saw me? 653 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, yes, yes, And he allowed them to make contact. 654 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 3: Missus McNeil. Darlena Johnson's mother said that she got a 655 00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,399 Speaker 3: strange phone call, I killed your daughter, Brenda Woodard. Her 656 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 3: body is left on the grounds out there where her 657 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 3: mama worked at the hospital. So was it just his. 658 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 7: Age that made you think it wasn't Robert Askins? 659 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 3: Yes, it was his age. And I know in reading 660 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 3: the FBI evidence reports, his hairs did not match the 661 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 3: negroid head hairs. None of the fiber evidence that was 662 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 3: removed in a search warrant at his house matched. They 663 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 3: could not find any type of green synthetic fibers that 664 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 3: matched these. But he did know about the word tantamount 665 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 3: because it was used quite often in describing him. 666 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 7: And in his court proceedings. 667 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, judges, and generally that's where it comes from. You know, 668 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 3: if you look at the note, there's a saying now 669 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 3: that if somebody tells you who they are the first time, 670 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 3: you best believe it. That person told us who he was. 671 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 3: Somebody else called him insensitive. You don't call yourself insensitive, Okay, 672 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 3: somebody else in some document made him the insensitive person. 673 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 7: Detective Jim Trainham agreed with the Romaine Jenkins. He believes 674 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,800 Speaker 7: investigators were blinded by the word tantamount when. 675 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 14: You started looking at some of the suspect biology. You 676 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 14: see that coming up. Oh, he uses the word tanamou 677 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 14: in this document or that document. 678 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 13: In reading the search warrants and the investigation into him, 679 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 13: it was like the detective was really obsessed with him, 680 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 13: and he was really trying to push a square peg 681 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 13: into a round hole in my opinion. I mean, some 682 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 13: of the leaps that he was making to try to 683 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 13: connect Askins to these girls was pretty kind of eye rolling. 684 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:50,919 Speaker 13: Askins is now dead. He's never admitted to anything. When 685 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 13: some detectives did go down to question him, he was 686 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 13: extremely paranoid. 687 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 14: But then again, I think I would be due if 688 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 14: I'm in prison, somebody's trying to put the murder of 689 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 14: five girls on me. I don't think that's abnormal behavior, 690 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 14: though they thought it was. 691 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 7: Askins was given a life sentence for the kidnapping and 692 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 7: sexual assault of two women. He died on April thirtieth, 693 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 7: twenty ten, at the age of ninety one. One of 694 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 7: the detectives communicated with Askins until his death, and he 695 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 7: continued to deny any involvement in the murders. Whether or 696 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 7: not Askins was the killer, the fact remains that Saint 697 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 7: Elizabeth's Hospital is a significant location in this case. I 698 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 7: visited the grounds last year with my producers Jamie and Trevor, 699 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 7: so we're standing here at the place where Saint Elizabeth's 700 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,840 Speaker 7: Hospital stood in nineteen seventy one. This was the place 701 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 7: where one of the prime suspects, Robert Askins, was treated 702 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 7: for years, held actually, and because of its proximity to 703 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,399 Speaker 7: so many important locations in the freeway phantom cases. That's 704 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 7: one of the reasons why people felt Robert Askins was 705 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 7: a good suspect because the geographic profile landed on this 706 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 7: location where we're standing as sort of the hub of 707 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,240 Speaker 7: this killer's life, is that this would be an incredibly 708 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,720 Speaker 7: important location for him, and Askins was held here for years. 709 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 7: And again, it's close. It's close to everything. I mean, 710 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 7: we haven't gone far from that neighborhood where Carol Spinks 711 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 7: lived and where Darlinia lived. It's close. It's all in 712 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 7: the same I mean, for me, it's walkable. The hunt 713 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,359 Speaker 7: for suspects throughout the seventies was mostly unsuccessful, but in 714 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 7: a strange turn of events, investigators briefly determined that it 715 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 7: wasn't one person who was responsible, but an entire gang. 716 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,359 Speaker 7: Here's Jim training again. 717 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 14: One of the things that happened right about this time 718 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 14: period was there was a series of rapes of adult women, 719 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 14: of kidnappings and rapes of adult women that were done 720 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 14: by this group of men called the Green Vega Rapist 721 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 14: and they were basically, I guess the best way to 722 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 14: describe them is like a rape club. 723 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,760 Speaker 15: I mean some of them would go out some knights, 724 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 15: others would go out other knights, and they would drive 725 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 15: a green vega around and they would kidnap women off 726 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 15: the street, look at bus stops and things like that, 727 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 15: take them to someplace, rape them, sodomize them, and then 728 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:34,879 Speaker 15: let them go. 729 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,920 Speaker 14: Some of the rapes were pretty brutal, and when they 730 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,359 Speaker 14: finally got captured, one of them started making noise and saying, well, 731 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,879 Speaker 14: I know who the Freeway Phantom is. 732 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 7: Next time on Freeway Phantom. 733 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,359 Speaker 12: It was a gang that were going around abducting young 734 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:00,959 Speaker 12: women in raping them. 735 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 9: The investigators for Freeway Fans said, well, maybe these guys 736 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 9: are the same guys, and they opened a multi jurisdictional 737 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 9: task for us that involved the FBI, the park police. 738 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 7: I think it got covered up. 739 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 3: As an adult, I see it differently than when I 740 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 3: was a kid. 741 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 2: Plus as a kid, I didn't know a lot of 742 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 2: stuff that had happened. 743 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,760 Speaker 7: So why was she not included among the Freeway Phantom victims. 744 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 3: I have no idea. I guess mainly because she was 745 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 3: only victim found in the water. 746 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 9: And sometimes I get the feeling that police officers get 747 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 9: in their mind who they think did it, and in 748 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 9: their mind the cases are closed, even though nobody was 749 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:40,879 Speaker 9: ever brought to. 750 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 4: Tryal for it. 751 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: Freeway Fantom is a production of iHeartRadio, Tenderfoot TV and 752 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,880 Speaker 1: Black BARMETSVA. Our host is Selese Hilly. The show is 753 00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,800 Speaker 1: written by Trevor Young, Jamie Albright and Celess Hiley. Executive 754 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: producers on behalf of iHeartRadio include Matt Frederick and Alex Williams, 755 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,719 Speaker 1: with supervising producer Trevor Young. Executive producers on behalf of 756 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV include Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay, with producers 757 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: Jamie Albright and Tracy Kaplan. Executive producers on behalf of 758 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: Black bar Mitzvah include myself, Jay Ellis and Aaron Bergman, 759 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,920 Speaker 1: with producer Sidney Fools. Lead researcher is Jamie Albright. Artwork 760 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,880 Speaker 1: by Mister Soul two one six, original music by Makeup 761 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: and Vanity Set special thanks to a teammate, Uta Beck 762 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. Tenderfoot TV and iHeartMedia, 763 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: as well as Black bar Mitzvah have increased the reward 764 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 1: for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the 765 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,840 Speaker 1: person or persons responsible for their Freeway Fan of murders. 766 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: The previous reward of up to one hundred and fifty 767 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars offered by the Metropolitan Police Department has been matched. 768 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: A new total reward of up to three hundred thousand 769 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: dollars is now being offered. You you have any information 770 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,960 Speaker 1: relating to these unsolved crimes, contact the Metropolitan Police Department 771 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,919 Speaker 1: at area code two zero two seven two seven nine 772 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,879 Speaker 1: zero ninety nine. For more information, please visit freeway dashfanom 773 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: dot com. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV, 774 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,959 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen 775 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,160 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Thanks for listening.