1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and Happy Friday, everybody. I'm 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: Holly Fry. I'm Tracy B. Wilson. I hope you've had 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: a delightful week. This week we talked about Isabella Lucy Bird. Yeah, yeah, 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: I have to laugh, just because she is really, really 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: tricky to unpack. There are a few things that I 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: wanted to mention. One is, if you read that Anna's 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: Daughter biography of her, there really is an awful lot 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: of fun writing about weird little vignettes in Isabella's life 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: that never make any of the major like you know, 11 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: if you read an article about her in a travel 12 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: journal or a scientific journal, etcetera. But like there are 13 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: gems like apparently she allegedly thwarted an assassination attempt at 14 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: one point because she got into a cab and apparently 15 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: at this point, uh in I believe she was in London. 16 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: At the time, it was common for people to like 17 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: throw kind of a packet of papers that were advertisements 18 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: bundled together into cab windows as people were getting in them. Um, 19 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: and she realized that there was already one on the seat. 20 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: But in fact it turned out to be papers about 21 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: this assassination attempt, which she then brought to the authorities 22 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: and allegedly had her um her the place where she 23 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: was staying guarded that night because there was worry that 24 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: she was in danger for having been part of the 25 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: There are a lot of stories like that that are 26 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: completely unsubstantiated that make me wonder if Isabella Lucy Bird 27 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: wasn't just a really good storyteller with her friends, because 28 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: the things like that come up over and over. The 29 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: other thing that I wanted to mention, we continued to 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: call her by Miss Bird throughout, even though she did 31 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: get married and became technically Mrs Bishop Uh in her 32 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: late forties. This is something that also kind of was 33 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: the case with her work. Um. She continued to be 34 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: known by Bird because that was her established professional name 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: as a writer. Her name often would appear as Isabella 36 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: Bird with in parentheses Mrs Bishop or Mrs J. L. 37 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: Bishop next to it. Um, which is just an interesting thing, 38 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: but it seems like Mrs Bishop feels like a weird 39 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: name to call her to me. Yeah, And the other 40 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to mention, we talked about it a 41 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: little bit in the episode that these letters that she 42 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: would write back to Henny were dense, like there, I 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: ran across a photo of one of the originals and 44 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: I was just like, holy crap, how could anybody ever 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: read this? Because it is like, not only is it um, 46 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: she has a handwriting that is not as specially easy 47 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: to read, but like there's no spaces between the lines. 48 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: It's like the way she's writing in cursive, the line 49 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: underneath the one before it is crossing over the one 50 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: above it just a little bit. And it's like that 51 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: throughout the entire letter, Like it's very cramped, and she 52 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: wrote long letters. There is a story of one letter 53 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: that she wrote to a particularly um important person in 54 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: a leadership position that was allegedly a hundred and sixteen 55 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: pages or something. Goodness, and I think nobody read that letter, 56 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: Like can you imagine writing I don't remember that was 57 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: to John Murray or if that was too, like a 58 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: leader of a foreign country. But I just can't imagine 59 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: thinking anybody would want to hear a hundred and sixteen 60 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: pages of my writing in a letter. That's a lot 61 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: of pages. Yeah, yeah, She's fascinating and it's tricky, right. 62 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: I wanted to be very careful about how we talked 63 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: about her various medical issues and how she portrayed them, 64 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: and hopefully we didn't uh, you know, do anything clunky 65 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: or miss Steppi there. It's very it's very difficult because 66 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: you want to be sensitive to you like, the modern 67 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: audience and and how much more we know about how 68 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: these things work. But also you're working with someone who 69 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: talked about all of these things in a a very 70 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: old school way that is not as enlightened. Yeah. Well, 71 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: and then so often when we're talking about figures from 72 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: the past who are described as like in quotation marks 73 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: poor health, like sometimes it's like it's so unclear what 74 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: was actually going on, and you know, it's it's the 75 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: folks that I know today who are who are chronically 76 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: ill will describe themselves as chronically ill and will like 77 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: name their specific illness if they know, like if there's 78 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: been an actual diagnosis, because sometimes those are also very 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: difficult to get a diagnosis for. But like, sometimes we're 80 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: looking at folks in the path and it's like, well, 81 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: they were they were tired a lot, they they seemed 82 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: not well, and it's like that's all. We don't really 83 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: have anything to go on yeah, there's all kinds of 84 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: explanations for that that ranged along a spectrum that includes 85 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: like a chronic illness that nobody had a name or 86 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: diagnosis for at the time, but also includes things like 87 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: you're living in a repressive society where you were not 88 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: allowed to have a job or be educated. Right. Uh yeah. 89 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: I read one um brief piece that brought up the 90 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: question this is very speculative, so please no, I'm not 91 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: saying this is the case, but it was an interesting 92 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: thing to think about. That brought up the point that 93 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: her illnesses started to manifest after Henrietta was born, and 94 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: wondering if there wasn't at least in childhood, and element 95 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: of feeling that she had lost her attention base in 96 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: her parents because now they had two kids to split 97 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: it between, and that she was in some ways using 98 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: various complaints as a way to put focus back on 99 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: her which kids do. I mean, that's not an uncommon 100 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: thing to happen in in families when the dynamic shifts 101 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: in that way. But we can't Again, it's the same problem. 102 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: We can't ever really know because there's no doctor to 103 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: go back to, and in fact, even any records to 104 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: go back to and be like, was this true? Did 105 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: she have actual symptoms that you recorded and noted? Did you? 106 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: We don't know, right, I don't know. Most of what 107 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: we know about Isabella Lucy Bird is what Isabella Lucy 108 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: Bird told us. Yeah, what she wanted us to now. 109 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: One of the episodes we did this week was about 110 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: Wulianda and the Manchurian pneumonic plague epidemic that started in 111 00:06:51,839 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: Super Fun Topic UM. When the pandemic first started, I 112 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: consciously avoided doing episodes that were like, specifically about a 113 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: terrible disease outbreak, just because it felt like everyone was 114 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: under so much stress about it that I was like, 115 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: there's stuff we can do that's relevant that does not 116 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: feel like it is also going to be traumatizing for 117 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: no reason. Um, And now it is. However, many months later, 118 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: we're recording this on July twenty one, and I kept 119 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: coming back to this this particular topic Um, both because 120 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: his life and work are so interesting and so important 121 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: to the overall idea of of public health in China, 122 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: and also because I kept hearing just the little piece 123 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: of the story and other podcasts that were about masks 124 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: in general. One of the things that really came across 125 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: to me as I was researching. This is how similar 126 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: this epidemic is with what is happening right now in 127 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: terms of people having to figure out what was happening 128 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: and what would work and what wouldn't as they were 129 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: going because it was like it started out with everybody 130 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: being like, all right, plague. Plague is spread by fleas 131 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: and rats. We got this, we know how this goes. 132 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: It was not being spread by fleas and rats. It 133 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: was being spread by coughing. Um. And then a lot 134 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: of the response that was happening among people, like the 135 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: people who were being quarantined and the people who were 136 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: being told no, you cannot go visit your family another town, um, 137 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: like not understanding why and not wanting to do it. 138 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: One of the later epidemics that that we was involved 139 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: in helping to control, which we did not get into 140 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: at all. UM, there were incidents of like plague enforcement, 141 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: people being kidnapped, and riots over quarantine means, and um 142 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: they distributed some mean like sixty thou masks to people 143 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: or distributed mass just sixty people. I'm not actually sure 144 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: which way that went, but a lot of the same, 145 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: like people pushing back against being given public health directives 146 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 1: that we're going to up end their everyday lives. Yeah, 147 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: I am. I will tell you the thing that I 148 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: chuckled about, perhaps most in this episode, which has very 149 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: little to do with the actual epidemic we discussed. I 150 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: suddenly was thinking how it might be kind of lovely 151 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: to have a plague doctor's mask filled with garlic. I 152 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: do love garlic me too. There's nothing better than roasting 153 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: garlic and smelling it all over the house for me. 154 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: As if you don't like garlic, that would feel different. 155 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: One of the things about those plague doctor outfits um 156 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: that I kind of went down a rabbit hole on that, 157 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: and I was not able to get a satisfactory solution 158 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: because there's so much writing about it that's meant for 159 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: a popular audience. That's like kind of a surface level 160 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: read on stuff. Um Number one. Sometimes people associate those 161 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: plague doctor masks with the Black Death, but really that 162 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: that was much later, the pointy beaked plague doctor masks. 163 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: And the other thing is a lot of the visual 164 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: references to those masks were meant to be satiric, like 165 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: this was a satirical drawing. So it's like, what, Okay, 166 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: what did they actually look like if this thing was satire? 167 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times some of those 168 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: illustrations that were meant to be satire are used as 169 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: illustrations on articles about the plague Doctor costume without acknowledging it, 170 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: which sometimes makes me wonder did the writer of this 171 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: article in like a popular website know that that was 172 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: supposed to be satire? And I don't know the answer. Um, 173 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: I'm looking for extant examples. There is one that looks 174 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: almost like a hybrid um of the early early early 175 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: diving apparatus. It's like a leather full head gear with 176 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: the sort of peplum flange on the bottom that covers 177 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: the shoulders, and it looks more like a pointy beak 178 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: like you would see like a straight ahead pointy beak, 179 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: and it it does have a beak well, and you 180 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: would need some kind of protuberance if you're gonna stick 181 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of garlic up in there. Um. But yeah, 182 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: so it seems like there were some a little like that, 183 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: but the ones we usually see are more extreme examples. 184 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: This is from one is in the Berlin Museum and 185 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: one is in the I'm going I'm reading this off 186 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: of a historians blog, So I'm not like verifying any 187 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: of this in real time. Um, and one is in 188 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: the ingle Stop Museum and they both look pretty much 189 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: like that, like they have interestingly enough, And this could 190 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: be the ravages of time. Instead of the beak pointing 191 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: down it it uh tapers and move slightly up at 192 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: the end. How funny. But again that could be just 193 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: how it shifted in shape over time. Yeah. One of 194 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: the other things that I saw a lot in popular 195 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: writing about the Stobic was people describing Woo's mask as 196 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: the precursor to the N nine And I'm like, that 197 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: only makes sense if what you are saying is that 198 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: it was used to try to prevent the spread of illness. Right, 199 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: that's a big leap in between those two. Yeah, because 200 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: the whole thing about the N ninety five is like 201 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: it is not a woven cotton material. That's a whole 202 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: other story that is covered in some of those other 203 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: episodes that I mentioned in the listener mail segment of 204 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: our show Homo Stotic. If you'd like send us an 205 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: email or History podcast and i heart radio dot com, 206 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: and you can also find us on the iHeart Radio 207 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: app and Apple Podcasts. And wherever else you like to 208 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 1: get podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 209 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. 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