Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing renovating your home on a budget.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt. Before we get into all that stuff,
Speaker 1: I want to mention that my friend Katie, she sent
Speaker 1: me an email based on our Frugal Versus Cheap podcast
Speaker 1: when I talked about buying a fan for our rental
Speaker 1: property that was super super small, yeah, with the uber
Speaker 1: short fan blades. Yeah, so I kind of gave myself
Speaker 1: some crap for that, and that was definitely a cheap
Speaker 1: out as opposed to a frugal purchase. Yeah, it looks dumb.
Speaker 1: It looks terrible and actually is incredibly ineffective. It doesn't
Speaker 1: really move the air quite as well. No, because it
Speaker 1: looks like it belongs in a four by four room
Speaker 1: as opposed to a twelve by twelve room, which is
Speaker 1: kind of what it's in. I think a desk fan
Speaker 1: mounted to this. Yeah, it looks so ridiculous. So she
Speaker 1: sent me this really interesting article from this site called
Speaker 1: young house Love dot com. And it turns out I
Speaker 1: know that site. Oh really, Yeah, dude, that's the house
Speaker 1: renovating sort of site John and uh Sherry Kate and
Speaker 1: I used to you like buddies of these people. No,
Speaker 1: but Kate, I used to keep up with that site
Speaker 1: all the time back in the day when we first
Speaker 1: got our house. They were constantly doing sort of these
Speaker 1: d I y projects and they would inspire us to
Speaker 1: to try stuff out at home. But then they kind
Speaker 1: of stopped blocking for a while, so I guess they
Speaker 1: fired it back up. So cool. Yeah, So I don't
Speaker 1: know if I don't know if this was a recent
Speaker 1: article or what, but but this is an awesome suggestion.
Speaker 1: I guess they too found themselves in a similar spot
Speaker 1: where they had a fan that had fan blades that
Speaker 1: were way too short and just didn't circulate enough air.
Speaker 1: And what they did was they reached out to the manufacturer, apparently,
Speaker 1: and they asked if they had fan blades that were
Speaker 1: longer that would fit this exact same fan. They sent
Speaker 1: them the model number, and the manufacturer just sent them
Speaker 1: some new, longer fan blades that fit perfectly and the
Speaker 1: fans still worked fine. So awesome. Now I'm going to
Speaker 1: reach out to the manufacturer of my fan and see
Speaker 1: if I can do the same thing. See if I
Speaker 1: get some free fan blades and just make make that
Speaker 1: thing work properly. That's awesome, man, I love that. Well,
Speaker 1: this is gonna sound ridiculous, but I actually reached out
Speaker 1: to the manufacturer of one of our fans because the
Speaker 1: led panel for the light went out and it's sat
Speaker 1: there for a little bit with sort of this half
Speaker 1: dim light and mood lighting. Some people call that with
Speaker 1: this half dim light. Yeah, that's right. And we knew
Speaker 1: it wasn't working properly, but I was just kind of lazy.
Speaker 1: But I finally reached out to the manufacturer with a
Speaker 1: part number, and we had to pay for that part. However,
Speaker 1: it was only fourteen bucks, and because that we basically
Speaker 1: got our lighting back in our living room when before
Speaker 1: it was totally dark. That's something I've never really done before,
Speaker 1: actually reaching out to the manufacturer. I think maybe in
Speaker 1: a previous life I would have looked at that and
Speaker 1: been like, the fans gotta go in a couple of years,
Speaker 1: just let's just get rid of it. I remember doing
Speaker 1: that a while back with a caraft for a coffee maker.
Speaker 1: He kind of busted, like he just kind of fell apart,
Speaker 1: and so I reached out to the manufacturer. I told
Speaker 1: him the model number I was working with, and and
Speaker 1: I was like, I really really love the coffee maker.
Speaker 1: I don't really want to buy a new one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more life in this thing if only
Speaker 1: I had the glass paper exactly. And so they sent
Speaker 1: me another one free of charge, which is super They
Speaker 1: hook you up. Yeah, dang it. So I feel like
Speaker 1: pay for my light, dude, that's well, four teen bucks
Speaker 1: is not too bad. It's not bad. I was. I
Speaker 1: was pretty happy with it. But that's the downside to
Speaker 1: LED lights in general. Right, Like they say that, oh
Speaker 1: l eds, they're you know, they're gonna last for twenty
Speaker 1: thirty years, unlike traditional incandescent lights. However, the electric boards
Speaker 1: will sometimes kind of short out. And it's not that
Speaker 1: the LED itself is going bad, but the circuit tree
Speaker 1: sometimes may not be quite up to snuff. But I
Speaker 1: think it's really important to realize that it never hurts
Speaker 1: to ask. Right, maybe I can reverse my cheap ways
Speaker 1: turn into a frugal wind. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I love the discussion between frugal versus cheap, right, it
Speaker 1: makes me think. A couple of weeks back, we had
Speaker 1: a listener in our Facebook group at how to Money, Ben,
Speaker 1: He said, frugal are cheap. My daughter has outgrown her
Speaker 1: sippy cups, and I used them to take milk to
Speaker 1: work because I hate the powdered creamer they provide for
Speaker 1: the coffee. I fill up the milk at home and
Speaker 1: place it in the fridge in the office break room.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Man? I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. Man. We've got so many freaking sippy
Speaker 1: cups around our house, and my girls, for some reason
Speaker 1: love to love to still use like some of the
Speaker 1: ones they used as babies. They just think that's the
Speaker 1: coolest thing ever. And and you know what, I should
Speaker 1: probably take some of them to work and do something
Speaker 1: with him, something a little more creative. Yeah, But I
Speaker 1: love that that Ben's not putting him out the pasture,
Speaker 1: tossing him in the garbage, and he's getting getting a
Speaker 1: second life out of him. And I just think it's
Speaker 1: funny because if I was his co worker, I would
Speaker 1: probably ask for an explanation, but why is there a
Speaker 1: sippy cup in the fridge? Right? But then I would
Speaker 1: have a good laugh and and probably use the creamer
Speaker 1: that he brought, because he's right, powder cream sucks well,
Speaker 1: added bonus, if no one ever knew that that's what
Speaker 1: was in its his coworkers wouldn't steal the creamer because
Speaker 1: I guarantee they probably think it sucks too, and they're like,
Speaker 1: powder creamer? Do we hire a baby around here? Where's
Speaker 1: this baby? Man? I've got my boss baby going on.
Speaker 1: All right, Joe, let's go ahead and mention the beer
Speaker 1: that we're gonna have on the show today. It is
Speaker 1: from Prairie artisan Ales and this beer is called Apple
Speaker 1: Brandy Barrel Noir. This is an Imperial Stout aged and
Speaker 1: apple brandy barrels. And before we kind of get to
Speaker 1: the what it tastes like, I wanted to mention that
Speaker 1: this was donated to us from Jeff and Val of
Speaker 1: Monday Morning Pancakes. Dude. They wrote us a note and
Speaker 1: sent a couple of amazing beers and a few things
Speaker 1: they mentioned in the in the letter any pancakes too,
Speaker 1: you know? I wish, although I don't think they hold
Speaker 1: up very well in the male. Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: They said that they were in a rut financially and
Speaker 1: had since been inspired to start their blog, Monday Morning
Speaker 1: Pancakes to document their path to a better lifestyle and
Speaker 1: financial independence. I'll tell you what, man, Sometimes just starting
Speaker 1: a blog or some sort of diary, anything to kind
Speaker 1: of track your progress and put it down in writing
Speaker 1: can kind of help you not only to gather your
Speaker 1: thoughts and get started in a specific direction, but then
Speaker 1: also kind of hold yourself accountable as you're going through
Speaker 1: the process. And so I love that. I love that
Speaker 1: they started something, and they started something together to kind
Speaker 1: of turn inspiration into like application, really right, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that. And what a great way to get on
Speaker 1: the same page as your spouse, right by starting something together.
Speaker 1: And what a great way to gain our favor by
Speaker 1: sending this beer. So I was really excited because I
Speaker 1: didn't tell you what beer this was. But have you
Speaker 1: had this before? Well, now I have to look at
Speaker 1: the label. I don't know. I don't think I've ever
Speaker 1: had this one. Cool. I just know when I read
Speaker 1: that label, I thought, holy crap, this might be one
Speaker 1: of the best beers that we've had on the show
Speaker 1: in a long long time, just based on the name alone.
Speaker 1: So you are having a sip right now, and yeah,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts, man? Yeah? I did just have
Speaker 1: a sip and you might be right, Matt, that's a
Speaker 1: phenomenal beer. The word I'm going to use this week
Speaker 1: to describe this beer is barrel. And I know we
Speaker 1: say that almost every week, that oh, this is such
Speaker 1: a good beer, but for real, this beer is fantastic
Speaker 1: and my word is going to be apple. And all
Speaker 1: the other times we were just lying like none of
Speaker 1: those beers have been good, completely joking, but this one
Speaker 1: is good, right, Yeah, did you hear my word? I
Speaker 1: said apple? I did, yeah, for it, Honestly, that's the
Speaker 1: word I almost went with, oh really, but I was like,
Speaker 1: it's a little too straightforward, because no, man, I take
Speaker 1: it right on the notes. So yes, So we'll describe
Speaker 1: a little bit later on the show exactly why we
Speaker 1: use those words. And no, we weren't lying in episodes past.
Speaker 1: We just honestly drink good beers every week. Super thankful
Speaker 1: to get a drink good beers with you, my friend,
Speaker 1: and do the show alright, Joel, But onto the topic
Speaker 1: at hand. Huh you did that nicely. Yeah, that's how
Speaker 1: you do it. And so this week we are talking
Speaker 1: about specific tips when it comes to renovating your home
Speaker 1: on a budget. What are the specific tips you can
Speaker 1: use to save yourself money and to keep you within
Speaker 1: your budget. And last week we discussed the pros and
Speaker 1: cons and the factors that you should keep in mind
Speaker 1: when considering if you should renovate or if you should move,
Speaker 1: and we came to the fact that both can be
Speaker 1: just as stressful and expensive. But you know, if you
Speaker 1: want to renovate, or you think that you will ever renovate,
Speaker 1: this is the episode for you. Yeah, Matt, And I
Speaker 1: think they're gonna be a lot of like big picture
Speaker 1: things for people to take away from this episode, but
Speaker 1: they're also going to be these small things that seems
Speaker 1: insignificant potentially, but could be the difference between having a
Speaker 1: contractor that does a good job for you or one
Speaker 1: that takes your money and runs. And there are so
Speaker 1: many horror stories of people that decide to move forward
Speaker 1: with a renovation and they hire a contractor based on
Speaker 1: very little knowledge or or a word of mouth from
Speaker 1: one person, and and and and guess what, You pay
Speaker 1: a lot of money up front for them to start
Speaker 1: the project, and then you never see him again. And
Speaker 1: I've just heard and read too many of those stories
Speaker 1: from people. And that's a huge reason why we're creating
Speaker 1: this episode is to help people not only figure out
Speaker 1: how to save money maybe d I y some things themselves,
Speaker 1: but ultimately also to avoid that potentially tragic circumstance where
Speaker 1: you lose a ton of money by giving your money
Speaker 1: to a scam artist. So we're gonna get to all
Speaker 1: those tips right after this break. All right, Matt, let's
Speaker 1: get right into it first. Are you sure you want to?
Speaker 1: I mean, renovating a house is a pain. We talked
Speaker 1: about it last week, so certainly there are a lot
Speaker 1: of benefits, but there are also a lot of costs
Speaker 1: and headaches associated with a major reno. You might be
Speaker 1: able to instead, possibly spend a fraction of the renovation
Speaker 1: costs you're considering on storage and organization to save a ton.
Speaker 1: That's something we mentioned last week. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: briefly say in this episode in case you missed that one.
Speaker 1: Now let's get onto some actual tips for how you
Speaker 1: renovate your home on a budget. The first tip that
Speaker 1: we're gonna cover is to keep in mind that it's
Speaker 1: gonna cost more and it's gonna take longer than you expect.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that about a renovation. This all the time,
Speaker 1: but you gotta keep in mind because it is duded.
Speaker 1: Is so true. I'm thinking of some friends of ours
Speaker 1: who live pretty close by. They would also say the
Speaker 1: same thing. The project went a couple months over than
Speaker 1: what the contractors said, and so did the price, and
Speaker 1: so in their case, they kind of had the double
Speaker 1: aamy going on, man, which is not uncommon. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not uncommon, but it's just something to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: You need to set some expectations and chances are that
Speaker 1: one of the two of those are going to go over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're going through a home renovation right now, so you
Speaker 1: have some particular expertise at this moment in Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: And so I think we're pretty much on time, which
Speaker 1: is pretty crazy, right, the fact that we're on this
Speaker 1: the time schedule that our general contractor had had said
Speaker 1: was gonna be the case. But we are going over
Speaker 1: budget for reasons that we'll get into later in this episode.
Speaker 1: But from a time standpoint, we seem to be pretty
Speaker 1: much on track, which is pretty freaking awesome. But it's
Speaker 1: not always the case. Yeah. So, speaking of budgeting and money,
Speaker 1: start saving now. Paying cash is the most ideal way
Speaker 1: to pay for renovation. I realized that is a high standard.
Speaker 1: That's a difficult thing to live up to. But if
Speaker 1: you find yourself thinking right now, oh man, in a
Speaker 1: couple of years, I feel like we're gonna want an
Speaker 1: extra bathroom, or we're gonna want to remodel the kitchen,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it may be. If you can think
Speaker 1: about it ahead of time and start saving for that,
Speaker 1: then you don't have to worry about banks. And that's
Speaker 1: really nice to not have to go through a process
Speaker 1: of taking out a home equity line or loan or
Speaker 1: doing like a cash out refight, because those can just
Speaker 1: be a pain, a lot of paperwork, a lot of documents, ation,
Speaker 1: and any way that you can avoid that is awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Or even on top of that, man, construction loans. That's
Speaker 1: the product that's out there that a lot of people
Speaker 1: use to renovate and like do a big renovation on
Speaker 1: their home. But with those come a lot more work.
Speaker 1: The bank sends out their own inspectors and so it
Speaker 1: really slows down the work. You have to not only
Speaker 1: get the work inspected by your local government for permitting
Speaker 1: and whatnot, but the bank has to also approve the
Speaker 1: work because they're the ones that are funding the work,
Speaker 1: and so it really kind of slows the process down
Speaker 1: and as a layer of complexity to the work that
Speaker 1: you're having done on your place. Yeah, and so if
Speaker 1: you do need to get a loan, the type of
Speaker 1: product that you want to get depends on the amount
Speaker 1: of time that it's going to take you to pay
Speaker 1: off that loan. So if you end up getting an
Speaker 1: adjustable rate loan like a home equity line of credit,
Speaker 1: you are only gonna want to do that if you
Speaker 1: feel like you can pay that off in a shorter
Speaker 1: amount of time. Because chances are, in an environment where
Speaker 1: interest rates are rising, you're likely going to pay more
Speaker 1: in overall interest if it takes you a longer time
Speaker 1: to pay off. And so if that's the case, if
Speaker 1: it's going to take you a longer time to pay off,
Speaker 1: and I'm saying greater than a three to five year timeline,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to go with something that locks in
Speaker 1: your rate, like a whole equity loan or potentially that
Speaker 1: cash out refinance because interest rates are still overall at
Speaker 1: a pretty low level, and so if it's going to
Speaker 1: take you a while to pay off, well, it's best
Speaker 1: to lock that interest right in now when you're considering
Speaker 1: taking out funds for a renovation, Yes, that's right, man.
Speaker 1: You want to have a plan to pay that off
Speaker 1: as soon as possible. Next tip, if it's a job
Speaker 1: that's going to be bigger, you want to consider hiring
Speaker 1: an architect to get some detailed drawings. Otherwise, not having
Speaker 1: decisions made ahead of time could cost you way more
Speaker 1: money and cause the project to run longer than expected.
Speaker 1: And when you do this, you want to make sure
Speaker 1: you tell them your overall budget, because you might have
Speaker 1: architects who can do some incredible work and they might
Speaker 1: draw you some amazing plans right for a renovation that
Speaker 1: you could never afford, and you might think to yourself, well,
Speaker 1: how the heck am I supposed to even know my budget?
Speaker 1: But a way that you can get some ballpark numbers
Speaker 1: is to reach out to some contractors, have them come
Speaker 1: by your place and generally go over the score footage
Speaker 1: that you're looking at, adding the general finishes. Most of
Speaker 1: the time you're gonna match your existing house, and they'll
Speaker 1: give you a range. With that range, you can then
Speaker 1: take that to the architect before you pay them thousands
Speaker 1: of dollars to come up with incredibly detailed plans that
Speaker 1: you can't actually do anything with. Oh and another quick
Speaker 1: tip when you're talking to your architect is make sure
Speaker 1: that you are having things designed and drawn to like
Speaker 1: more standard sizes. So, for instance, doors come standard at
Speaker 1: six ft eight If you don't want to be blowing
Speaker 1: your budget out of the water, don't have some detailed
Speaker 1: drawings where you've got this custom seven ft two inch
Speaker 1: door in your house, because guess what those are gonna
Speaker 1: have to be custom made. Considers standard sizes and your
Speaker 1: architect will know what those are. But ultimately, Matt, the
Speaker 1: biggest thing you need to consider when you're jumping into
Speaker 1: potential bigger home renovation is a general contract that's right
Speaker 1: at a g C. The g C can make or
Speaker 1: break the whole thing. And so we've got a few
Speaker 1: tips and selecting the right one. And it's important to
Speaker 1: ask friends and local realtors for recommendations for local contractors.
Speaker 1: And it's really important to get at minimum three different
Speaker 1: quotes from different contractors in your area that will help
Speaker 1: you kind of develop a ballpark of what this project
Speaker 1: might cost. And when you're interviewing those contractors that have
Speaker 1: been recommended to you, it's really important to call their references,
Speaker 1: to ask for references, right, and then to call those references,
Speaker 1: and then you want to even go a step further
Speaker 1: because lots of people do that. They ask for the references,
Speaker 1: they read the references. But if you can actually go
Speaker 1: out and look at a job that they've done, physically,
Speaker 1: go out to someone's house, see the work right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is so helpful in seeing, Okay, how good is
Speaker 1: the work? Right? And if you see it in person,
Speaker 1: you can see the little imperfections or the ways in
Speaker 1: which that contractor has taken special care to do a
Speaker 1: great job. Seeing the work in person and talking to
Speaker 1: that individual not just over the phone, but to their
Speaker 1: face where you can actually discuss what the process was like.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get a lot more nation about how that
Speaker 1: how they worked with that contractor how easy it was,
Speaker 1: and how happy they are with you know, the final outcome.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more sort of nuance that goes into
Speaker 1: conversation when you're hanging out in person versus say on
Speaker 1: an email or a quick text, where they might feel
Speaker 1: the needs is sort of gloss over some of the
Speaker 1: things that they didn't love so much. But again, like
Speaker 1: you said, hanging out in person. That's why we like
Speaker 1: to hang out in person. But they're just you have
Speaker 1: more fun and you're able to communicate a lot more
Speaker 1: just robust lye. Yeah. It makes me think of our
Speaker 1: episode Matt that we did about screening a tenant, and
Speaker 1: it's very very similar to that, where that first impression
Speaker 1: that you get of a tenant through email or a
Speaker 1: phone call can be awesome, and then you meet them
Speaker 1: in person and you can tell a whole lot by
Speaker 1: when they show up, how they present themselves, and how
Speaker 1: that walk through the house goes. There's there's so much
Speaker 1: that you can gather from an in person visit that
Speaker 1: you couldn't over a phone call. And the same is
Speaker 1: true when you're picking a general contractor. Another thing is
Speaker 1: that you want to make sure that your general contractor
Speaker 1: is licensed and ensured. Gcs can cost tend to earty
Speaker 1: percent of your total project cost, and that's a lot
Speaker 1: of money, so you want to make sure that you've
Speaker 1: got one that isn't going to end up being a
Speaker 1: liability for you. Yeah, and this vetting process can save
Speaker 1: you a lot of time, a lot of money, and
Speaker 1: a lot of heartache. Spend the extra time on the
Speaker 1: front end to save all of those other things on
Speaker 1: the back end. Keep in mind, though, that when you
Speaker 1: get a quote from your g C or potential g
Speaker 1: C that is just an estimate, is not a final
Speaker 1: bid or or a final price. More than likely there
Speaker 1: are going to be unforeseen things that always arise once
Speaker 1: a renovation is underway, and you want a GC who
Speaker 1: will address these issues with a change work order and
Speaker 1: not just cut corners, because basically, something comes up and
Speaker 1: you've got two options. If the GC feels that you
Speaker 1: know that you're locked into this price and that you're
Speaker 1: not really flexible, well they know that you're not gonna
Speaker 1: want to spend extra money to fix that, and so
Speaker 1: they're they're probably just gonna cut corners, or they're just
Speaker 1: gonna sort of dry all over that rotten spot or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. You want to g C who will
Speaker 1: communicate with you, have these discussions and hopefully that these
Speaker 1: are decisions that you can make together and move forward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that process, Matt, the beginning process,
Speaker 1: that getting to know you kind of process with a
Speaker 1: general contractor receiving their estimates, seeing how they present themselves
Speaker 1: in person to you, whether they're on time, and how
Speaker 1: thorough they are, whether they get their estimate to you
Speaker 1: when they say they will. That is foreshadowing of how
Speaker 1: things are going to go when the renovation process actually begins.
Speaker 1: So take note of that when you're getting your quotes
Speaker 1: from contractors. How that process goes down is going to
Speaker 1: be very indicative of what your future with that contractor
Speaker 1: looks like, Yeah, Joe, I couldn't agree more. Right if
Speaker 1: you If you're gonna have to make like five phone
Speaker 1: calls just to hear back from your contractor to get
Speaker 1: you a quote, chances are they may not be the
Speaker 1: best fit if you're expecting to, you know, hear back
Speaker 1: after one phone call or one text message. You also
Speaker 1: want to have a general contractor who's familiar with the
Speaker 1: permitting process of your particular city. So building codes and
Speaker 1: our standard and international, the local government they're the ones
Speaker 1: who handles the permitting approval process, and they all do
Speaker 1: it differently. What documents they expect varies and how they
Speaker 1: want that presented. All that varies, and so you want
Speaker 1: a g C who is familiar with that process and
Speaker 1: knows how to sort of streamline that and quickly move
Speaker 1: it along. That's gonna have a huge impact on the
Speaker 1: projected amount of time. However, even if you are using
Speaker 1: and experienced local contractor, you might want to consider using
Speaker 1: an expediter if time is of the essence for you.
Speaker 1: They'll be the ones who are most knowledgeable with what
Speaker 1: your local permitting office is looking for, and hopefully they're
Speaker 1: not doing anything illegal, but they're the ones who can
Speaker 1: kind of take your plans and set it over on
Speaker 1: their buddies desk, and who knows, maybe they'll get to
Speaker 1: reviewing your plans two or three weeks before they would
Speaker 1: have otherwise. You gotta love a good wheel grease and
Speaker 1: don't pay big amounts up front and never pay in
Speaker 1: full to your contractor, and you want to make sure
Speaker 1: that you withhold final payment until the project is a
Speaker 1: complete I've heard stories of people that pay their final
Speaker 1: payment to their contractor before the final punch list is
Speaker 1: all done, and obviously there are even worse stories than that,
Speaker 1: but there's work that still remains incomplete on the renovation
Speaker 1: that you're doing. You shouldn't pay the contractor until all
Speaker 1: of those things are completed, because once that last check
Speaker 1: has been put in the hand of that GC they're
Speaker 1: gone like that's that's it. Their job is complete, at
Speaker 1: least that's the way they're going to view it. And
Speaker 1: so you want to make sure that you withhold until
Speaker 1: you're completely satisfied that all the work has been completed
Speaker 1: according to the plans that you set out. Yeah, and Joel,
Speaker 1: and certainly this is definitely the case too with smaller subs,
Speaker 1: right like, if you say we're just gonna like have
Speaker 1: a contractor sort of put a new roof on your
Speaker 1: house or something like that, you never pay until the
Speaker 1: project or the job is done. However, typically with a
Speaker 1: bigger job with a general contractor, typically there's a payment
Speaker 1: schedule and there's draws that are planned at different completion
Speaker 1: points in the work. Those are the kind of details
Speaker 1: that you're gonna want to see in the contract with
Speaker 1: your general contractor, and some of that you can negotiate
Speaker 1: if there's, you know, something weird or something that stains
Speaker 1: out to you. But keep an eye out for work
Speaker 1: and payment that looks like they should sort of mirror
Speaker 1: each other and coincide, because factly, sometimes there's just a
Speaker 1: lot of material that need to be purchased, and there's
Speaker 1: other sort of subs that need to get reserved sort
Speaker 1: of in a sense where they're paid a deposits under
Speaker 1: the general contractor. So, you know, we haven't even mentioned this,
Speaker 1: but a general contractor is sort of like the manager
Speaker 1: of the job. They're typically not the one who's doing
Speaker 1: much of any of the actual work on your house.
Speaker 1: They might do like some trim work or some sort
Speaker 1: of miscellaneous odd job work here and there, but they're
Speaker 1: the ones who are coordinating scheduling the subs and making
Speaker 1: sure they are there on time. They're the ones overseeing
Speaker 1: the entire project and going back to deposits that they
Speaker 1: are giving. Sometimes they are needing to reserve their subs
Speaker 1: to make sure that they're good for the job as well. So, Matt,
Speaker 1: I feel like that does beg the question do people
Speaker 1: even need a general contractor? And that's a great question
Speaker 1: to ask, because, as you mentioned, a general contractor can
Speaker 1: often make ten tot of the overall price of your innovation,
Speaker 1: and depending on the scope of your innovation and your
Speaker 1: personal availa ability, your specific need for a general contractor varies.
Speaker 1: And so we'll kind of get into that and some
Speaker 1: other cost saving measures that you can take when you're
Speaker 1: undergoing a home renovation right after the break, All right,
Speaker 1: jul let's now talk about whether you should or shouldn't
Speaker 1: have a general contractor. And so, if you're a type
Speaker 1: a personality, right, you might consider being your own general
Speaker 1: contractor if you have the time and knowledge. This is
Speaker 1: gonna be a little controversial of a statement to make.
Speaker 1: Chances are you're gonna be pouring over the details and
Speaker 1: wanting to know why everything is happening the way it
Speaker 1: is anyway, So check with your state laws, as some
Speaker 1: require a license, sometimes with experience, but that might be
Speaker 1: a way that you could save some serious amount of money. However,
Speaker 1: I will say that most people will want a general contractor.
Speaker 1: Most folks renovating their home can't take on their added
Speaker 1: responsibility of basically another full time job making the decisions,
Speaker 1: or even having the knowledge or the experience in dealing
Speaker 1: with subcontractors. A good general contractor is totally worth it.
Speaker 1: They've got relationships with suppliers with subcontractors, like I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: They've got that experience, you know, those relationships with subcontractors.
Speaker 1: That's honestly what kind of makes or breaks a renovation.
Speaker 1: And like having framers or a roofer or a plumber
Speaker 1: or an electrician to have them show up when they're
Speaker 1: supposed to. That's the difference between your project running months
Speaker 1: over when it should be finished and it's staying on time,
Speaker 1: or that's the difference between you going way over a budget,
Speaker 1: because this is something that wasn't considered because there wasn't
Speaker 1: somebody overseeing the entire project to it falling within the
Speaker 1: scope and the budget that you were expecting. You know,
Speaker 1: as a homeowner and someone who's renovating their house currently,
Speaker 1: dud we make so many decisions right now, I could
Speaker 1: not imagine having to also make tons and tons of
Speaker 1: other decisions that involve people that we aren't talking to
Speaker 1: every single day. Yeah, especially if you're kind of a
Speaker 1: novice homeowner, it really isn't even something that should you
Speaker 1: should consider. If you have a little bit of experience
Speaker 1: when it comes to building, or you're taking on a
Speaker 1: much lighter project, maybe you want to think about being
Speaker 1: your own GC. If you're hiring just a few subcontractors
Speaker 1: and hopefully you've had experience with some of those subcontractors before.
Speaker 1: But if you're whipping out the yellow pages and thinking
Speaker 1: and thinking that you're gonna find the right folks to
Speaker 1: complete your innovation, and you need to hire everybody from,
Speaker 1: like you said, framers to electricians to tile workers. Chances
Speaker 1: are you're better off in the hands of a general contractor.
Speaker 1: And basically, if you have to Google like should I
Speaker 1: be my own general contractor, you probably shouldn't. Yeah, Google
Speaker 1: disresponds big nope. Yeah. Another important question Matt to ask
Speaker 1: is but what can you do yourself? Right? And that's
Speaker 1: an important question because we would never tell anyone to
Speaker 1: shy away from a good d I Y project. And
Speaker 1: if you can save some money by tackling some of
Speaker 1: these projects yourself, that's freaking awesome. We're all about that, right,
Speaker 1: And there are little things that you can do along
Speaker 1: the way they could save your self thousands of dollars
Speaker 1: in a home renovation that we think you should totally consider.
Speaker 1: And the first part of that is the beginning, and
Speaker 1: it's the demo that's actually kind of the more fun
Speaker 1: part too. Right. You get a big sledgehammer, you start
Speaker 1: knocking out kitchen cabinets or whatever that is. And that's
Speaker 1: something that you can actually save some money on by
Speaker 1: telling your contractor, hey, we're going to take care of
Speaker 1: the demo, making sure you know the scope of what
Speaker 1: you actually need to take on in that demo, but
Speaker 1: that's a kind of maybe fun way to get your
Speaker 1: aggression out and save some money at the same time.
Speaker 1: What kind of aggression are you dealing with? Man and painting, dude,
Speaker 1: that's something else that a lot of people can do
Speaker 1: and have done themselves as well. Yeah, that's usually one
Speaker 1: of the last things right on the list is painting
Speaker 1: a room. And so yeah, if you can handle the
Speaker 1: front end, a little bit of demo, the back end,
Speaker 1: a little bit of painting, you can save yourself big money.
Speaker 1: And then you're also kind of not getting in the
Speaker 1: way of some of those subcontractors that are that are
Speaker 1: doing some of the heavy lifting in the middle and
Speaker 1: while interior painting, you know, it seems totally doable. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure we would recommend you taking on the exterior
Speaker 1: painting of your house, in particular if it's more than
Speaker 1: one story, because you might die. Death is not worth it.
Speaker 1: Another tip is to consider saving money by getting recycled materials.
Speaker 1: You could visit your local habitat for Humanity restore. This
Speaker 1: is something that we've done when we were adding a
Speaker 1: storage room onto one of our rental properties. We found
Speaker 1: an awesome, perfectly sized window that we were needing on
Speaker 1: a wall that we're putting in, and we saved so
Speaker 1: much money by picking up this random window. And sure
Speaker 1: it doesn't really match the other windows in the house,
Speaker 1: but you know what, none of the other windows really
Speaker 1: matched either, so it doesn't really matter. And also consider
Speaker 1: picking up remnants of say like a countertop. You can
Speaker 1: go to a countertop warehouse or installer and a lot
Speaker 1: of times we'll have remnants on site from a bigger
Speaker 1: job where there's pieces of say that granite or that
Speaker 1: marble that they couldn't use from the larger piece that
Speaker 1: they cut it from. And you know what, if you
Speaker 1: were just remodeling a smaller kitchen, or you only needed
Speaker 1: that for maybe an island, you could say some huge
Speaker 1: money by just picking up this piece that they were
Speaker 1: going to end up just tossing in the trash. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and let's say you've got appliances that are in solid condition,
Speaker 1: man reuse the appliances, don't tossos out. That's like a
Speaker 1: common thing that people do when they renovate. They go
Speaker 1: all the way and they end up tossing out something
Speaker 1: that's perfectly good if you've built it into your budget
Speaker 1: and that's a strong desire to to have, you know,
Speaker 1: new appliances at the same time. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that's okay. I just know that it deserves a mention. Matt.
Speaker 1: I know you're salvaging some of yours and that just
Speaker 1: cuts down on the overall costa of the rental that
Speaker 1: you're undertaking. Yeah, man, that's true. However, we did have
Speaker 1: to get a new dishwasher. Did I tell you my
Speaker 1: dishwasher story? How we were limping along with his dishwasher
Speaker 1: that we got for free, so our old dishwasher essentially
Speaker 1: stopped properly working. I mean, it just was not cleaning
Speaker 1: the dishes, and we knew that we were going to
Speaker 1: have to get a new dishwasher at some point. But
Speaker 1: I found one for free. A friend kind of put
Speaker 1: us in touch with somebody else that had purchased a
Speaker 1: rental and they were swapping out those appliances. But the
Speaker 1: dishwasher totally worked. Being the frugal guy hopefully not cheap
Speaker 1: that I am. Uh dude, I went over there and
Speaker 1: grabbed it was already uninstalled, brought it over to our
Speaker 1: place quickly, was able to get it in there. And dude,
Speaker 1: I tell you what, that base model tends a twenty
Speaker 1: year old dishwasher with dust all over. It worked so well,
Speaker 1: way better than that old stainless steel dishwasher that we had.
Speaker 1: But I love that idea for a lot of folks.
Speaker 1: If your appliances are only a few years old, if
Speaker 1: they are in solid condition, like, think about keeping it
Speaker 1: as opposed to replacing something that's perfectly good the way
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, or even if they're mismashed a little bit, like,
Speaker 1: no one really cares if your appliances don't all match
Speaker 1: orf they're all from the same suite. Yeah, And just
Speaker 1: like that new car, smell it. Honestly, it doesn't last
Speaker 1: very long. And that same feeling that you get when
Speaker 1: you walk into a brand new kitchen with brand new appliances,
Speaker 1: you know what, that feeling doesn't last all that long either, enjol.
Speaker 1: Something else to consider is think about whether you would
Speaker 1: be happy with more cosmetic changes like painting or maybe
Speaker 1: getting that new backsplash versus moving walls and taking on
Speaker 1: a huge project. You know, if you consider not changing
Speaker 1: the layouts, that can save you huge, huge amounts of money. However,
Speaker 1: if you are going to move some walls, consider not
Speaker 1: moving major systems, anything that involves large amounts of HVAC
Speaker 1: or electrical or plumbing. These are all things that are
Speaker 1: going to require each one of those subcontractors to be
Speaker 1: in there to do that work, and all that adds up. So,
Speaker 1: for example, think about the bathroom. Right, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: update that bathroom, you're gonna get any toilet in there,
Speaker 1: replace the tile, maybe switch out the sink, get some
Speaker 1: new faucets. It's gonna cost you a lot of money. However,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna move that bathroom from point A to
Speaker 1: point B, that's gonna cost you way more money because
Speaker 1: you're involving a plumber. You're having to basically rebuild that
Speaker 1: bathroom in a different location. Yeah. You know something else
Speaker 1: that adds up, Matt, the secondary cost of renovation after
Speaker 1: the fact, And so it's really important to take those
Speaker 1: into consideration before you sign a contract with a general
Speaker 1: contractor and before you actually start demo. So you mean
Speaker 1: like adding onto your house or making it a little
Speaker 1: bit bigger, Yeah, exactly. So a lot of people that
Speaker 1: are considering a home renovation, they are adding on square footage,
Speaker 1: potentially to a house. And so if you are doing that,
Speaker 1: not only do you have to consider you just mentioned
Speaker 1: moving plumbing or electricity around, which adds a lot to
Speaker 1: the costs of that renovation, but also your taxes will
Speaker 1: go up because of the increased square footage. You'll also
Speaker 1: likely end up paying higher energy bills because of that renovation.
Speaker 1: You got a heat and cool that space, man, exactly,
Speaker 1: it's more space to take care of, and so that's
Speaker 1: just gonna cost you more money. That's right, though, That's
Speaker 1: an important consideration. That was episode forty eight where we
Speaker 1: talked about why everything costs more than you think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and home renovation costs more than just the bottom line
Speaker 1: on the contract that you get from your general contractor
Speaker 1: before the actual renovations begin. It costs you more in
Speaker 1: time and money usually than that. And then on top
Speaker 1: of that, there are secondary costs that you have to
Speaker 1: think about. Just don't forget to consider those before you
Speaker 1: dive in head first. All right, Gel, that's right man.
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead now, and let's get back to our beer.
Speaker 1: We are drinking an Apple brandy barrel noir, which is
Speaker 1: an Imperial stout by Prairie artisan Ales, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go ahead and kick it off with my wordman, which
Speaker 1: was apple, like the apple I love it. That was
Speaker 1: almost the word I went with. And the reason I
Speaker 1: said that was because literally, that's what you smelled like
Speaker 1: on the nose. Like on the nose, what it smelled
Speaker 1: like to me was like a bowl of apple jacks,
Speaker 1: just that apple, wheat and grainy smell. However, when we
Speaker 1: tasted the beer, dude, I did I feel like I
Speaker 1: didn't taste the apple nearly as much as I smelled
Speaker 1: it like on the nose, strong apple in my mouth,
Speaker 1: wheat apple. I felt like the barrel actually influenced this
Speaker 1: beer so strongly. Yeah, you could totally taste that. I'd
Speaker 1: be so interested to know how long this beer was
Speaker 1: in the barrels, because that can completely change the way
Speaker 1: a beer taste. And some breweries will put something in
Speaker 1: for a couple of months and you get very very
Speaker 1: light barrel flavor, and this beer it must have been
Speaker 1: for a year or close to it, because you got
Speaker 1: ten years. Who knows, because you've got a huge amount
Speaker 1: of that apple brandy barrel on the nose in the
Speaker 1: flavor profile. And so that's why my word was barrel
Speaker 1: because I feel like the barrel was the big stand
Speaker 1: out here. I got to know that barrel and the
Speaker 1: flavors that it didn't parted through this beer very very well. Yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of roasted flavors. And I agree with
Speaker 1: you as far as the barrel. It added a lot
Speaker 1: of earthiness to it, Like it felt like I had
Speaker 1: my nose down in like wet earth mixed with coffee.
Speaker 1: It's like I had a hot cup of coffee next
Speaker 1: to my apple Jacks and I'm sitting there and it's
Speaker 1: just like all wafting up towards my nose. But I
Speaker 1: thought you switched to hot water. I do drink hot
Speaker 1: water throughout the day, but I drink coffee in the
Speaker 1: afternoon that's right when I eat my apple Jack's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was a delicious beer. Thanks so much to Jeff
Speaker 1: and Val for sending that over. It's always greatly appreciated
Speaker 1: when a listeners sending a beer, and especially a beer
Speaker 1: of this sort of magnitude. This was incredible, all right,
Speaker 1: mat Let's get to our final thoughts, and a really
Speaker 1: important thing to mention is that pay in cash, or
Speaker 1: at least saving up a substantial amount of cash when
Speaker 1: you're considering a home renovation is so important, And honestly,
Speaker 1: it feels like something that people would laugh at or
Speaker 1: scoff at in this day and age of easy home
Speaker 1: loan reefinances and home equity lines of credit. Well why
Speaker 1: not finance it when I can? But we would say
Speaker 1: save up as much as you can. It's gonna put
Speaker 1: you in a better position to tackle this potential home rental.
Speaker 1: That's right, man, you don't want to foot your future
Speaker 1: self with the bill from today's lifestyle. And another tip
Speaker 1: that I think is pretty important man, is to consider
Speaker 1: an architect, not just an architect that will give you
Speaker 1: the basic plans, right. You don't want to go cheap
Speaker 1: if it's a bigger project, consider having detailed drawings that
Speaker 1: will save you so many decisions. And Kate and I
Speaker 1: have had incredible decision fatigue. This is something that can
Speaker 1: save you just a lot of that time stuck. We're
Speaker 1: constantly on call to make decisions. Yeah, and the decision
Speaker 1: that you make when it comes to a general contractor
Speaker 1: is probably the most important decision you're gonna make when
Speaker 1: it comes to your renovation. It can make or break
Speaker 1: the entire process for you and so we would say,
Speaker 1: have a strenuous vetting process where you interview multiple three
Speaker 1: or more general contractors and get solid recommendations from friends
Speaker 1: that have renovated and from local realtors. Yeah, and if
Speaker 1: you are pretty handy man, truly consider the different things
Speaker 1: that you can d i Y, things like painting or demo. However,
Speaker 1: for most folks, you probably aren't going to be able
Speaker 1: to d I Y being the general contractor. Most likely
Speaker 1: it'll be best to leave that to the pros. And lastly,
Speaker 1: it's really important to consider whether you'd be happy with
Speaker 1: some smaller cosmetic changes. Taking on a big renovation is
Speaker 1: life changing. It can suck a bunch of your energy
Speaker 1: and time and a lot of your money. So going
Speaker 1: in a simpler direction can provide you a lot of
Speaker 1: what you're looking for at a much cheaper price point.
Speaker 1: And do did we even talk about storage solutions? I
Speaker 1: bet you could spend one percent of what your innovation
Speaker 1: might cost awesome, really nice storage at your place. And
Speaker 1: I bet that alone, right there could buy you another
Speaker 1: four to five years in your house. Yeah, depending on
Speaker 1: your situation, really good storage can be a big difference maker.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, that's gonna do it for this episode.
Speaker 1: You can find show notes for this episode on our website,
Speaker 1: how to money dot com. Yeah, and if you found
Speaker 1: the things that Joe and I talk about helpful or
Speaker 1: interesting or even mildly entertaining, we would love to hear
Speaker 1: from you. We would really appreciate if you were able
Speaker 1: to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. You know
Speaker 1: that helps to get the word out, so you know,
Speaker 1: share your thoughts. It's like a big red megaphone for
Speaker 1: potential listeners. Yeah. Man, that's right. And so until next time,
Speaker 1: best friends out, Yeah, best friends Out.