WEBVTT - Part Two: ACT UP: How Angry, Dying Queers Invented Modern Activism

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>your weekly podcast in which your host is very excited

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<v Speaker 2>and happy because she thought that she was out of snacks.

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<v Speaker 2>But then she went and she put a stool next

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<v Speaker 2>to the cabinet and looked at the top, at the

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<v Speaker 2>back of the top cabinet and found a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of protein bars that were just passed where my arm

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<v Speaker 2>can reach.

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<v Speaker 1>So I didn't think it take you to get desirable

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<v Speaker 1>snacks these days, Like what's the You have to like

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<v Speaker 1>plant it out in your week.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, this is a thing. I live early enough

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<v Speaker 2>that shipping takes often about a week for anything I

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<v Speaker 2>order online and then a lot of the stuff around me,

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<v Speaker 2>if they don't sell it at Walmart, I probably can't

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<v Speaker 2>get it, so I thought. I.

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<v Speaker 3>But I will say, you don't have to live in

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<v Speaker 3>a rural area. You just have to live with a

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<v Speaker 3>tall man who likes butterfingers or whatever, because he will Matt,

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<v Speaker 3>my husband will hide all of the snacks like out

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<v Speaker 3>of my reach. Literally, there's like so much. There's a

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<v Speaker 3>wonderland of like bad snacks that like a child would eat,

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<v Speaker 3>like nerds ropes. Yeah, that are the top shelf, and

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<v Speaker 3>I like, haven't seen it.

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<v Speaker 2>We are getting you a step stool.

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<v Speaker 3>A fucking kitchen. Yeah, I don't even want to know

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<v Speaker 3>what's up there. I really don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, I just befriend tall women.

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<v Speaker 2>I even identify as a tall woman.

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<v Speaker 3>You are a tall woman, but you needed a stool

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<v Speaker 3>to get the snacks.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the thing is, I think I'm tall enough

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<v Speaker 2>that I don't need a stool. When I finally I

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<v Speaker 2>got a stool for other people so when people come

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<v Speaker 2>over they can like get the stuff out of my cabinets.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I left it in my kitchen after one

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<v Speaker 2>of my friends left, and I was like, this is

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<v Speaker 2>so nice. You know that the cabinet that goes above

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<v Speaker 2>the fridge, that's like where you put stuff to die.

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<v Speaker 2>You know that you are never ever going to think about, You're.

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<v Speaker 3>Never gonna find you never get it.

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<v Speaker 1>I just can't use it.

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<v Speaker 2>Now thanks to the wonder of the step stool.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>See.

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<v Speaker 1>See, for me, I've realized I am the only short

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<v Speaker 1>person that I am friends with all of my friends.

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<v Speaker 2>That's actually you have a lot of friends of all

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<v Speaker 2>genders who are very tall.

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<v Speaker 1>I have all I am I am inclusive with my

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<v Speaker 1>tall friends. They're they're all tall, and I look like

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<v Speaker 1>their child.

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<v Speaker 3>They're just all the time, all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>But I never have to worry about somebody reaching things

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<v Speaker 1>for me because one of them is always around. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I get to go, hey, can you do that thing?

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<v Speaker 1>And they you know everything we talked about, the thing

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about, and then they get something down for me,

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<v Speaker 1>and then I watch and it's fun.

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<v Speaker 2>And this podcast is based on the idea that you

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<v Speaker 2>already listened to part one, so you know who's talking,

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<v Speaker 2>but in case you don't, I'm Margaret Kiljoy. Guests here

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<v Speaker 2>is Francesca Fiorentini Hi, and producer is Sophie Lichterman. Our

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<v Speaker 2>audio engineer who's not here is Danel High. Daniel soub Sophie.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, Danel Hi, buddy, I love you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's at the point I think I've mentioned this before.

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<v Speaker 2>It's at the point where now I like, if everyone

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't say Hi, Daniel, I get like it's confused and

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<v Speaker 2>everything's going to be terrible. But our theme music was

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<v Speaker 2>written for us by un woman. Yeah, and our heroes

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<v Speaker 2>of today are act up and they we did the

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<v Speaker 2>we did the like big picture a little bit on

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the stuff they did on Monday, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna get in some of the more of the

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<v Speaker 2>specifics because they're really fun. One of the most famous

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<v Speaker 2>actions was against the Catholic Church. Act UP was working

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<v Speaker 2>to distribute condoms and schools and the Church was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to stop them. And now you might be thinking, why

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<v Speaker 2>would the Catholic Church have anything to say about what

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<v Speaker 2>happens in public schools? And you would be right to

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<v Speaker 2>think that, because they shouldn't have any say in what

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<v Speaker 2>happens in public schools, right, No reason why they should keep.

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<v Speaker 3>All that shit on your in your own lane, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>trying to get public funds for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Still, I did read this analysis that basically claims, and

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<v Speaker 2>I only found it in like one kind of anecdotal source,

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<v Speaker 2>that the Catholic Church in New York City had an

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<v Speaker 2>incredible amount of power before act UP and that act

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<v Speaker 2>Up in these actions and basically how the Catholic Church

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<v Speaker 2>behaved during AIDS crisis. And I'm going again, I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to say the Catholic Church, not Catholics, but the Catholic

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<v Speaker 2>Church acted so badly that it has less political power

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<v Speaker 2>in New York than it used to is one thing

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<v Speaker 2>I read. But that was a very offhanded statement that

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<v Speaker 2>I read.

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<v Speaker 3>Why what did the Catholic Church ever do? Name?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, one bad thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it came that the Pope kind of keeps uh

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<v Speaker 1>san slurs and yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's because it's Pride month. He's trying to be

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<v Speaker 3>down with the lingo.

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<v Speaker 2>I just of all people to like forcibly out, that

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<v Speaker 2>would be the fun one.

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<v Speaker 3>He kind of wants to. Yeah, yeah, either forcibly outing him,

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<v Speaker 3>I think he wants to forcibly out others.

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<v Speaker 1>I just really appreciate the fact that he makes Biden

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<v Speaker 1>look young. There you go, look at the positive said

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<v Speaker 1>at least there's one person who's older than Biden.

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<v Speaker 2>However, better position on Palestine than Biden exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>Even even the Pope knows you shouldn't murder children.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're like if you're like, oh my god, Biden's

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<v Speaker 1>so old, and it's like, have you seen the Pope.

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<v Speaker 3>He's just out here slurring. He's so old. He just

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<v Speaker 3>simply cannot Yeah, he's slurring his words and then using slurs. Yeah, both,

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<v Speaker 3>that's a great combination.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet sorry, no, it's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't stop bringing up the Pope in conversations with

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<v Speaker 1>people this week, because.

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<v Speaker 2>I find I find it so fascinating because he's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I know, and I'm like, and I I don't mind

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<v Speaker 2>that I've been called an abomination or whatever. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>also like kind of fun to have the Pope that

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<v Speaker 2>pisses off all of the new converts to Catholicism from

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<v Speaker 2>the right wing, because there's this whole like tradcast thing

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<v Speaker 2>where people are like Protestants who are like, oh, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna be Catholic because it's somehow more right wing, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they join and they're like, what are all these

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<v Speaker 2>people of color doing here? Why is the mass? In Spanish,

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<v Speaker 2>You're like, do you know what the word Catholic means?

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<v Speaker 2>It means universal, which has some problems like colonization problems

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<v Speaker 2>behind the idea of believing that your faith is universal

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<v Speaker 2>and should applied to everyone. But it also isn't nationalist. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>who would you rather get.

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<v Speaker 1>A drink with Joe Biden or the Pope?

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<v Speaker 4>It's the Pope. The Pope every time, every single time.

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<v Speaker 4>Who knows what he's gonna like, what's gonna come out

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<v Speaker 4>of his mouth? He's gonna have up so many people.

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<v Speaker 1>He's gonna have He's gonna come up with a slur

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<v Speaker 1>that none of us even heard of from the old times.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be sur Is against me and that sounds fun.

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<v Speaker 2>So anyway, Act Up. A lot of the analysis around

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<v Speaker 2>act UP that I read has to do with like

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<v Speaker 2>people talking about the Catholics and the Jews and the

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<v Speaker 2>Protestants within act Up and how people would behave, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in different situations. And so the Catholics and the Jews

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<v Speaker 2>were like, fuck, yeah, let's go after the Catholic Church,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Protestants were a little bit more like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>we should be careful around that. People will accuse us

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<v Speaker 2>of being an anti Catholic organization, whereas like quite understandable,

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<v Speaker 2>and whereas all the Catholics are like, oh, we don't

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<v Speaker 2>care if we get accused of that, that's us who cares.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. The Catholics have a more I mean, there seems

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<v Speaker 3>to be more of a radical tradition. I mean, we

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<v Speaker 3>talked about Daniel bar again the last time I was

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<v Speaker 3>on oh yeah, one of the totes I was on

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<v Speaker 3>a couple times ago, and it was just like the

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<v Speaker 3>Catholic Church, Catholic workers are more of a like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>working class radical tradition. I mean, I'm not saying it

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't exist in the Protestant Church, but like it's not

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<v Speaker 3>a movement you can really point to.

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<v Speaker 2>Right and if so, it's like a whole nomination like

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<v Speaker 2>Quakers or something it exactly, rather than like mainline Protestantism

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. So most of the people are like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to do this big die in at Saint

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<v Speaker 2>Patrick's Cathedral and so on December tenth, because that basically

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<v Speaker 2>the church is going around saying you can't distribute condoms

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<v Speaker 2>in schools, and you can't talk about safer sex, and

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<v Speaker 2>you can't encourage anyone to possibly have sex in any

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<v Speaker 2>way or whatever because we're the fucking Catholics. And so

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<v Speaker 2>December tenth, nineteen eighty nine, they plan this die in

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<v Speaker 2>and they're like compromise.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>People are like, oh, let's do something rowdy, and people

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<v Speaker 2>are like, no, it's not. So the compromise is going

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<v Speaker 2>to do this dye in where they're going to go

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<v Speaker 2>and then to not disturb everyone at prayer, but so

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<v Speaker 2>kind of mess things up. They're all going to fake dead,

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<v Speaker 2>act dead in the middle of it. You know, I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's two minutes after the opening line of the.

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<v Speaker 3>Service starts inside the service.

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<v Speaker 2>Inside the service, yes, while people are also outside protesting.

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<v Speaker 2>But when the time came, a couple individuals were like, now,

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<v Speaker 2>fuck this, We're fucking angry, and they were not polite.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone went up and took the Eucharus, took the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the the little bit of bread the Catholic seat that

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<v Speaker 2>is literally Jesus' flesh, and they crumpled it up after

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<v Speaker 2>they spit it out, and like, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>a really big deal. And then someone started shouting, you're

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<v Speaker 2>killing us, you're killing us, because they were those policies

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<v Speaker 2>kill people. There's a body count attached to in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of the AIDS crisis refusing to teach safe sex.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. Yeah, more than one hundred people were arrested

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<v Speaker 2>of this action, and at first everyone's upset, including with

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<v Speaker 2>an act up. A lot of people are like, oh no,

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<v Speaker 2>we were like, we really screwed it up. We were

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it made front page news all around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Most people were mad, but it changed things and it

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<v Speaker 2>was actually one of the most successful actions they took.

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<v Speaker 2>And actually some of the people who were within act

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<v Speaker 2>Up who were mad, were like, yeah, I know, I

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<v Speaker 2>was wrong, Like it was actually really sweet.

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<v Speaker 3>Action turns out like a mass action inside of a

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<v Speaker 3>mass is incredible, a mass action mass a mass action. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>and taking the body of Christ and being like, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>this is stale, gross, you're killing us.

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<v Speaker 2>Another time, they stormed the CBS Evening News during the

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<v Speaker 2>start of the first Golf War, shouting AIDS is news,

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<v Speaker 2>fight aids not arabs.

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<v Speaker 3>Oooh love it speaking of intersectional Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>When repeat villain of the show Rudy Giuliani came to

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<v Speaker 2>power in January nineteen ninety four in New York City,

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<v Speaker 2>his whole thing was he was the villain, like last

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<v Speaker 2>week or the week before when we talked about community gardens.

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<v Speaker 2>His whole thing is he wanted to cut public funding

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<v Speaker 2>and privatize the city. He wanted to cut fifteenthoud city jobs,

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<v Speaker 2>not cops, though cops, of course, we need all the

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<v Speaker 2>caps never get And so the Human Resources Administration took

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<v Speaker 2>a heavy cut, and the Department of Aid Services was

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<v Speaker 2>under that. The Department of Aid Services had started in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty five, seven hundred and forty people work there,

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<v Speaker 2>providing case workers for sixteen thousand AID patients. In the city,

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<v Speaker 2>Giuliani was considering cutting it entirely. Act UP, fuck that plan.

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<v Speaker 1>It is up.

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<v Speaker 2>One thousand people marched across the Brooklyn Bridge. They hung

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<v Speaker 2>a thirty foot banner on City Hall that renamed it

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<v Speaker 2>the AIDS Hall of Shame. Protesters blocked the Mayor's office.

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<v Speaker 2>Protesters blocked the Manhattan Bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Battery Tunnel,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Midtown Tunnel. Nice and they they half won.

0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.600
<v Speaker 2>They stopped the AIDS agency from being cut entirely. It

0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.200
<v Speaker 2>was still cut by three point one million dollars in

0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.880
<v Speaker 2>the city, started offering fewer services, but considering they were

0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:56.520
<v Speaker 2>going to lose.

0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.599
<v Speaker 3>It all completely lose that is wild. Yeah, when you

0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 3>still don't have it under control.

0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, it's still this like and you are like

0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.280
<v Speaker 2>the center of this crisis is New York City, you know.

0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely.

0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Act UP also built community health clinics and buddy programs.

0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.120
<v Speaker 2>They formed buyers clubs for necessary drugs, including some that

0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.400
<v Speaker 2>were smuggled into the country or produced illegally, so you

0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:27.120
<v Speaker 2>have like whole underground labs producing AIDS drugs. Nice. And

0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.400
<v Speaker 2>these clubs also would help people trade with one another.

0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.440
<v Speaker 2>And when I I'm doing a little bit of conflation

0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.839
<v Speaker 2>of the aid's movement. More broadly, with act UP, It's

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 2>one of the things about it being an all volunteer

0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:39.559
<v Speaker 2>organization is that a lot of things be like, oh

0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.080
<v Speaker 2>act UP did this, and then someone be like, oh,

0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.040
<v Speaker 2>it was actually this other group, and then later someone's like,

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:44.440
<v Speaker 2>well that group was part of act up, and then

0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.240
<v Speaker 2>other people argue about it. So I'm a little bit

0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.200
<v Speaker 2>blurry with some of this around.

0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.040
<v Speaker 3>You know, let me get the street. So act up

0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.920
<v Speaker 3>is not necessarily like again like a top down organization

0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.760
<v Speaker 3>with staff, right, is it more of it's decentralized, so

0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.040
<v Speaker 3>anyone can like be part of act up or do

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 3>you an act UP action if you're in San Francisco

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.440
<v Speaker 3>or Philly or New York? Or is it kind of that,

0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Like I know it's not occupy that's quite decentralized, but

0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.839
<v Speaker 3>that same vibe.

0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.760
<v Speaker 2>It's closer to that there is. Like I do know

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.240
<v Speaker 2>that act Up at its peak, Act Up New York

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.439
<v Speaker 2>had a million dollar budget that it was working with,

0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.679
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of that came from like merchandise sale, right,

0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:30.240
<v Speaker 2>mm hm. But I also know it's all volunteer, and

0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:34.520
<v Speaker 2>so I'm I'm actually I'm a little bit uncertain about

0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.120
<v Speaker 2>whether it was totally the UH franchise activism like food

0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.280
<v Speaker 2>and nott bombs or occupy where anyone who agrees to

0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 2>the following can be this totally. I know that all

0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.440
<v Speaker 2>the act Up groups were coordinating and that they were

0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.120
<v Speaker 2>all autonomous, so I don't think that you had to

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 2>get like permission, but I think you did. It was

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.200
<v Speaker 2>like part of something where act Up groups in one

0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.439
<v Speaker 2>city would call on act Up groups in other cities

0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and they would coordinate things together. They would plan these

0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.520
<v Speaker 2>like huge actions, well five thousand people, but a direct action,

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:07.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, in different cities. By coordinating together. Volunteer medical

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 2>workers were risking their licenses by administering drugs intravenously and

0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 2>patients like when it wasn't yet approved and things like that,

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 2>all because government action was too slow and it wasn't

0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.600
<v Speaker 2>centering the needs of patients. Act Up Philly took over

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.520
<v Speaker 2>an aid's hospice that had lost its funding. Act Up

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Boston squatted places for people to live, so a ton

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 2>of people were losing their jobs because they're sick and

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.400
<v Speaker 2>then are suddenly homeless, right right. They fought the I

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.880
<v Speaker 2>in s the precursor to ice over, the banning of

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 2>immigrants with AIDS. They more or less developed modern safer

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 2>sex education.

0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 3>That's fucking wild, right, Like two things that we take

0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.640
<v Speaker 3>for granted now that the you know, everyone, no matter

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 3>what political stripe, takes for granted. Of course, yes, they're

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.520
<v Speaker 3>trying to like roll back right, the right is trying

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 3>to roll back sexed and whatnot. But like the idea

0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 3>of like safer sex, of like learning how to use

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 3>a condom, distributing condoms like to most degrees, that's like

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.560
<v Speaker 3>a settled issue. And the fact that we have like

0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 3>gay rights activists and AIDS activists to think for that

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 3>is just incredible.

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, Like I took so much of this for granted.

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I grew up, you know, in the nineties as this

0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.400
<v Speaker 2>was happening, right, But I was, like I was a kid,

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean I was a teenager, and so

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>like I got sex education in school, and like, you know,

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.040
<v Speaker 2>and I don't you know, I couldn't tell you exactly

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.760
<v Speaker 2>where the line is of like how much they influenced

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 2>my sex education in like you know, the mid nineties

0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:42.640
<v Speaker 2>or whatever.

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.120
<v Speaker 3>But we also missed the like disease free fucking situation

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 3>that was happening in like the early seventies. So you know,

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 3>you take some, you lose some.

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.080
<v Speaker 2>I grew up like basically being like if I have sex,

0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>I will die because I grew up like at the

0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.840
<v Speaker 2>peak of the AIDS crisis, and so it's like everyone

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 2>sex dies. That's what I learned. And and it wasn't

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 2>even people like I mean, you have to do a

0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 2>little bit of scaring people, right, yes, yes, but you

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:10.880
<v Speaker 2>know you can certainly take it too far.

0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, some of the nuns were like perfect.

0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly totally. Sometimes act up participants when they would

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.560
<v Speaker 2>go to an action, they would bring or be given

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:25.760
<v Speaker 2>a photo and a name of someone who had died

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.640
<v Speaker 2>of AIDS to keep in their pocket during the action.

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And if they were arrested, you would give the dead

0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.440
<v Speaker 2>person's name instead of your own. Wow.

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.360
<v Speaker 3>That's just fucking deep.

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 2>So beautiful, I know it. It's like there's nothing like

0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>remembering that what you're doing is like weighty and matters

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.160
<v Speaker 2>like that. You know, they weren't always of one mind,

0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 2>like AIDS activism in general. A lot of AIDS activists

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 2>fought against government regulation and red tape. That's like what

0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>we hear the most about, right, but there was actually

0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.800
<v Speaker 2>a bunch who were also fighting for regulations, specifically of

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:04.359
<v Speaker 2>all the alternative treatment, because anytime the medical establishment fails,

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.639
<v Speaker 2>grifters come in and sell snake oil, right, And so

0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.120
<v Speaker 2>there's people who are absolutely there just to make money

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 2>off the dying and desperate.

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:13.960
<v Speaker 3>That's what I've remecked in.

0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, exactly, shit your pants, And I don't think

0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:21.480
<v Speaker 2>in one week we can give every part of act

0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.800
<v Speaker 2>UP it's due, but I want to focus on some

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 2>of the individual groups now within it. One of the

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.120
<v Speaker 2>most influential affinity groups with an ACT UP was called

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Grand Fury, which is an art collective made up of

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.359
<v Speaker 2>eleven people. They took their name. I think this is

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.320
<v Speaker 2>one of those things where if of a certain age,

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.679
<v Speaker 2>you just know where their name came from, and I don't,

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.440
<v Speaker 2>so I had to look it up. There's a car

0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 2>called a Plymouth grand Fury and it was the model

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.240
<v Speaker 2>car that NYPD drove, and they were like, we're just

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.720
<v Speaker 2>going to take that name. Fuck it. They also took

0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.040
<v Speaker 2>it because grand Fury sounds like grand Fury and it

0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.240
<v Speaker 2>sounds like I'm very angry, and they liked it.

0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:58.480
<v Speaker 3>That's great.

0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.959
<v Speaker 2>They wound up becoming one of the most influential art

0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:06.120
<v Speaker 2>collectives in history. They came from graphic design and advertising

0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.400
<v Speaker 2>as much as anything else, but they were directly inspired

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 2>by and consider themselves in lineage of the Situationists of

0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 2>France and the Gorilla Girls in the US. And maybe

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.159
<v Speaker 2>one of them still works in advertising and designed the

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 2>ad you're about to hear, but probably not. But here

0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:36.959
<v Speaker 2>you go. So grand Fury in the beginning, so you know,

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.440
<v Speaker 2>we have questions about structure, and I absolutely did too.

0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Grand Fury started off as like because I would read

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.439
<v Speaker 2>some articles and be like six people, eleven people, ten people,

0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.440
<v Speaker 2>like all of these different numbers were being thrown out

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.760
<v Speaker 2>and finally like their actual their own stuff is like

0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.160
<v Speaker 2>eleven people. And they were like, it started off as

0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.199
<v Speaker 2>whoever shows up to the meeting. It was kind of

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.480
<v Speaker 2>like a working group meeting. Basically, it's like who wants

0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.359
<v Speaker 2>to go to like the propaganda meeting. You know. Then

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.560
<v Speaker 2>they became a fixed collective by the end of nineteen

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.919
<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, they were like, Okay, we are now a

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.240
<v Speaker 2>specific art collective. We have a specific name. We are

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:11.480
<v Speaker 2>doing this thing. It is this these eleven people. Half

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.919
<v Speaker 2>of them had or would lose their partners to AIDS

0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:19.320
<v Speaker 2>like had already or would. Their most iconic piece of

0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.240
<v Speaker 2>art is the Silence equals Death poster. This is the

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.760
<v Speaker 2>black poster with a pink triangle and the word silence

0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.280
<v Speaker 2>equals death. Yes, every piece of art they did they

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.680
<v Speaker 2>put directly into the public domain for anyone to use.

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.280
<v Speaker 2>And they were intersectional as fuck. A lot of what

0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I know about the intersectionality of act UP comes through

0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.919
<v Speaker 2>their work. I'm sure there's other things written about it.

0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 2>They made posters pointing out that prisoners with AIDS suffer

0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.360
<v Speaker 2>the worst of all that It's like the life expectancy

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:49.760
<v Speaker 2>of a prisoner with the AIGE is half of that

0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.359
<v Speaker 2>of someone outside of prison.

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.680
<v Speaker 3>I cannot imagine that suffering.

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 2>I know. I know. They fought the myth that women

0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:02.080
<v Speaker 2>don't get HIV. Okay, my favorite posters is just like

0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.000
<v Speaker 2>this photo of a big erect cock with the words

0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:11.679
<v Speaker 2>sexism rears its unprotected head and men use condoms or

0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:13.840
<v Speaker 2>beat it. This is a slogan they used all the time,

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 2>and then AIDS kills women at the bottom. Another slogan

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.720
<v Speaker 2>they used a lot was women don't get AIDS. They

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 2>just die from it. Ooh, and they took out a

0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 2>full page ad in the New York Times for that one.

0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 3>Fuck that's get them, get them. I mean, I just

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:37.399
<v Speaker 3>think that it's wild, like the idea that you'd like advocating,

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.040
<v Speaker 3>and again we just said that they you know, there

0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.560
<v Speaker 3>are a lot of the origins of safe sex practices

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.000
<v Speaker 3>can be traced here, but like, it is still wild

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:48.160
<v Speaker 3>to me that, like, you know, at any point in history,

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 3>using a condom would be considered radical, right, or considered

0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, like subversive. Yeah, and this is a movement obviously,

0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.679
<v Speaker 3>they're like literally taking care of one another. I mean,

0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.840
<v Speaker 3>I think that's so, I mean, and that I think

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.640
<v Speaker 3>speaks to its success because oftentimes there are movements where

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.639
<v Speaker 3>you're not directly involved. It doesn't involve you know, you

0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 3>or your livelihood necessarily, and it can be harder, can

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 3>feel more nebulous. You don't have the name of someone

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.640
<v Speaker 3>in your pocket and you're not fighting for your own

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.240
<v Speaker 3>survival and to keep yourself safe. So I love that

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:21.719
<v Speaker 3>about yeah, this movement.

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Now there's so many things that we yet we

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.600
<v Speaker 2>take for granted, but it's like people fought and died

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:32.840
<v Speaker 2>over condoms. You know, right, like and it's like the weekend,

0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.160
<v Speaker 2>like we well, we no longer take it for granted

0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:37.600
<v Speaker 2>because everyone has to work like eight jobs. But you know,

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.640
<v Speaker 2>there was a period in America where because a lot

0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.840
<v Speaker 2>of people got to take uh yeah, a lot of

0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:49.080
<v Speaker 2>people got to take the weekend for granted. So another

0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.439
<v Speaker 2>thing that they brought a lot of attention to the

0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.000
<v Speaker 2>media at the time would talk about the innocent victims

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.359
<v Speaker 2>of AIDS to differentiate them from the gay man and

0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.679
<v Speaker 2>the drunk the junkies. Right, if you got it from

0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:04.000
<v Speaker 2>blood transfusions and heterosexual sex, you were an innocent victim

0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of AIDS. So Grand Fury and the rest of the

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 2>movement would use the slogan all people with AIDS are

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:16.159
<v Speaker 2>innocent and do like huge put the slogan everywhere they could.

0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.040
<v Speaker 2>There was one shirt that they made that was ubiquitous

0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.840
<v Speaker 2>among people in the movement and their supporters, which said

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:23.879
<v Speaker 2>read my lips and it was a photo of two

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:29.879
<v Speaker 2>sailor men kissing. They also really personified the act Up

0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.640
<v Speaker 2>method of working both inside the system and against the system,

0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:34.760
<v Speaker 2>because yeah, they took out full page ads and they

0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 2>also paid for some billboards. One billboard, but they also

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:39.360
<v Speaker 2>did a bunch of crime. That's what I'm talking about.

0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:43.600
<v Speaker 2>In the second one billboard, they did read welcome to America,

0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.440
<v Speaker 2>the only industrialized country besides South Africa without national health care.

0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 3>Still true, although maybe in South Africa there's national healthcare.

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, they put the same billboard back up in twenty

0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.600
<v Speaker 2>eighteen and they just modified it to remove beside South

0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Africa because South Africa and now the nationalized hellsware.

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:04.879
<v Speaker 3>Ah. I knew it.

0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.560
<v Speaker 2>I used to all the time, like just basically threatened

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.240
<v Speaker 2>to my health insurance plan for a very long time

0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.120
<v Speaker 2>was to move to a developed nation.

0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:16.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know that's going to be mine very soon.

0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.240
<v Speaker 2>They also weep pasted and did other crimes. They did

0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:22.679
<v Speaker 2>a New York Times wrap around, which is where you

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.880
<v Speaker 2>print it. It's funny. It's the style of protests that's

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.080
<v Speaker 2>going to be mostly gone soon, which is fine. Things change.

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:32.639
<v Speaker 2>You print a fake front page for a newspaper and

0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 2>then go through the city and replace all the newspapers

0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:39.399
<v Speaker 2>in the newspaper bins and shit and theirs was really

0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.320
<v Speaker 2>fucking well done. This was just a front page done

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.520
<v Speaker 2>super professionally that actually showed what the news should be.

0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:48.919
<v Speaker 2>And they called it the New York Crimes, and the

0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 2>subtitle was not to be confused with The New York Times.

0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.520
<v Speaker 2>The headlines read things like, thousands of New Yorkers may

0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:58.479
<v Speaker 2>be dying in the streets because they're going to pay

0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:01.960
<v Speaker 2>attention to the homeless issue. Women and AIDS are government's

0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:07.000
<v Speaker 2>wilful neglect. Inmates with AIDS inadvertent political prisoners. What about

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 2>people of color, race effects survival?

0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Hmm.

0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.600
<v Speaker 2>But they did an awful lot more than just art.

0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:18.640
<v Speaker 2>They believed in art for the sake of action. There

0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:20.920
<v Speaker 2>was this drug. It was the first drug, the first

0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:24.399
<v Speaker 2>approved drug for AIDS was called azt and had terrible

0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:27.000
<v Speaker 2>side effects and it didn't work long term. When it

0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.719
<v Speaker 2>was brought to the market, it was the most expensive

0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 2>pharmaceutical ever brought to.

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:33.480
<v Speaker 3>Market Jesus fucking Christ.

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Which is funny because now it's like not that expensive

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>by like it costs ten thousand dollars a year for patients,

0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.320
<v Speaker 2>which is about twenty five thousand dollars in today's money.

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.600
<v Speaker 2>And so this is like the first company that did

0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 2>the like, what if we fleece the shit out of

0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:49.160
<v Speaker 2>people who are fucking.

0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 3>Sick or in Diana, that's so cruel yeah.

0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 2>The company that owned AZT Burrow Welcome. It was one

0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:01.159
<v Speaker 2>of their biggest money makers, so they could profit off

0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 2>of the dying and marginalized. So on September fourteenth, nineteen

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:10.439
<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, seven members of Grand Fury snuck into the

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.560
<v Speaker 2>New York Stock Exchange using falsified badges because they're fucking

0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:17.440
<v Speaker 2>professional artists and printmakers. Two of them pulled out cameras.

0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:20.160
<v Speaker 2>The other five climbed up to a balcony then handcuffed

0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:23.359
<v Speaker 2>themselves to I couldn't figure out exactly, but I'm guessing

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:27.600
<v Speaker 2>the railing. They dropped a banner that read cell Welcome

0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:32.399
<v Speaker 2>after Burrows Welcome. Then they blew air horns over the

0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:34.880
<v Speaker 2>sound of the opening bell and dropped fake money onto

0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:38.359
<v Speaker 2>the stock trade floor, which their money read shit like

0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:42.600
<v Speaker 2>fuck your profiteering. People are dying while you play business nice.

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:46.399
<v Speaker 2>And then they put Grand Fury as the signature. They're like,

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:48.800
<v Speaker 2>slogan was like a cursive thing. I think it was

0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 2>just that literally the logo of the car, but I'm

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.040
<v Speaker 2>not sure. Grand Fury and cursive in place of the

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:58.560
<v Speaker 2>treasury signature. Within days, the price of AZT fell down

0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:02.800
<v Speaker 2>to less than seven thousand dollars year. WHOA, so that's

0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 2>still way too high. But you're talking like thirty percent drop.

0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:08.200
<v Speaker 2>I've read one place that was twenty percent drop, and

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:10.120
<v Speaker 2>then I read another place at a very specific number

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:11.359
<v Speaker 2>that was way more than that. And I don't know

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 2>the actual number. But I like grand Fury. Now I'm

0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:20.440
<v Speaker 2>going to talk about the least splashy group related to

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:21.640
<v Speaker 2>act UP that I like.

0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:26.960
<v Speaker 3>Grand Fury too very much. A contender for dopest group thus.

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Far, I know, but hear me out as next group.

0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:32.720
<v Speaker 2>It's not a competition, but it's kind of a competition.

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Not nearly so splashy. But one of the groups I

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.480
<v Speaker 2>think we could learn the most from. Chicago. Act UP

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:43.400
<v Speaker 2>formed the Committee for Sustainable Activity and Care or SEASACK,

0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 2>which was one of the first hay activism burns people

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:51.159
<v Speaker 2>out groups I've ever heard of. I'm going to quote

0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 2>about them from one of their spiritual successors, which is

0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 2>called the Jane Adams Collective, to a group that currently

0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:59.679
<v Speaker 2>does work in New York City. Seasack realized that the

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:02.119
<v Speaker 2>continue theyknewed stress of activism, along the trauma of the

0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:04.560
<v Speaker 2>AIDS epidemic and the violence of the police, was taking

0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:08.000
<v Speaker 2>a toll on the organization. They noticed not only a

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 2>greater degree of burnout from core organizers, but also greater

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 2>inter group conflict. Despite numerous successes, Seesack was made up

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.480
<v Speaker 2>of mental health workers and lay people and it was

0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:22.960
<v Speaker 2>charged with ways of reducing stress and post traumatic dysfunction

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:26.560
<v Speaker 2>within act of Chicago. They only existed for a short period,

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:28.840
<v Speaker 2>less than a year, but they helped usher in some

0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:32.080
<v Speaker 2>innoative techniques to reduce the negative effects of trauma that

0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 2>were used by ACTUP chapters not only in Chicago but

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:39.280
<v Speaker 2>other cities. So basically, they got together a bunch of

0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:41.760
<v Speaker 2>mental health professionals and shit and were like, how do

0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 2>we stop the traumatic trauma of this activism? And so

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:47.520
<v Speaker 2>they came up with a bunch of ways to do it.

0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:52.240
<v Speaker 2>They hosted monthly, a monthly free talk series where you

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:54.040
<v Speaker 2>could show up and talk about what's stressing you and

0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:56.159
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it had to be like activism related.

0:27:57.560 --> 0:28:00.399
<v Speaker 2>And this was extra good for the people care taking

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:02.920
<v Speaker 2>people dying of AIDS, right, because there's this whole thing

0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:04.159
<v Speaker 2>that Yeah, I.

0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:06.919
<v Speaker 3>Mean, were there support groups? I can only imagine there

0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.640
<v Speaker 3>were there. There are like support groups for people dying

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.359
<v Speaker 3>of AIDS. Yeah, I know, there's support groups for people

0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:15.560
<v Speaker 3>who are caring for those who were terminally ill. But

0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 3>it's just like that, Yeah, that was that's so much

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:21.440
<v Speaker 3>plus repression from the cops, plus New York City in general.

0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.920
<v Speaker 3>Let's be real, like I've organized there. It sucks. It's

0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:27.240
<v Speaker 3>just kind of like it's fun, but it's also sort

0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:28.840
<v Speaker 3>of real. It's just draining.

0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well this started in Chicago, but it did go

0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:36.800
<v Speaker 2>to New York. But yeah, no, like realizing and learning

0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:38.800
<v Speaker 2>and thinking about what to do about the fact that

0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 2>the people care taking the people also need care to

0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 2>be cared for you. They brought in veterans from other

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:50.120
<v Speaker 2>movements to talk frankly about the trauma they'd face through repression,

0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:52.040
<v Speaker 2>which also of course ties you into the lineage of

0:28:52.080 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 2>all these different protest movements, right, so that people didn't

0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 2>feel so alone, you know, you get to talk to

0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.920
<v Speaker 2>some like former Black Panther about how horrible and traumatic

0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.000
<v Speaker 2>what they experienced. Was maybe you feel better about the

0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:07.840
<v Speaker 2>trauma you're experiencing. They had after every big action, within

0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 2>a couple of days, they had what were called affirmation parties.

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:14.480
<v Speaker 2>All the participants of the action would show up and

0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:18.680
<v Speaker 2>to quote Jane Adams collective again quote. No matter the

0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:21.000
<v Speaker 2>success of the action, individuals would get up and say

0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 2>what it meant to them to be part of it,

0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:26.000
<v Speaker 2>thus reconnecting to the solidarity on the street with After

0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:29.320
<v Speaker 2>the action, in a social setting, there's drinks and music

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:34.640
<v Speaker 2>and dance. Often tokens, flowers, coins like an AA, et

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:37.040
<v Speaker 2>cetera of thanks would be given to the participants of

0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:37.680
<v Speaker 2>the protests.

0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's so sweet. I love as eye. Why didn't

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:41.680
<v Speaker 3>I have that one?

0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:46.480
<v Speaker 2>This is this is kind of what I was saying about.

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:48.120
<v Speaker 2>How like I think that there's like some stuff that

0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:50.920
<v Speaker 2>we need to reconnect with from this era.

0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:54.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because also the other thing people do is after

0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:57.200
<v Speaker 3>an action, there's always or anything, really I mean literally

0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 3>anything a show, uh, you know, an event, fundraiser, whatever

0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 3>it is. You always have this like, okay, let's do

0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:07.320
<v Speaker 3>like a debrief for whatever it is, or a post mortem.

0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:09.920
<v Speaker 3>And you're like, I don't like post Like this feels

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.440
<v Speaker 3>like more work. Why does this? Why do we have

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:15.400
<v Speaker 3>to do more work? Why don't we just be positive

0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:20.200
<v Speaker 3>about what we just did a party exactly and throw

0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:22.280
<v Speaker 3>a party and reconnect, especially if you were out on

0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:24.600
<v Speaker 3>the streets you might have gotten arrested, you might have

0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 3>got brutalized, like shit might have been scary, you know,

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:31.760
<v Speaker 3>And so having reconnecting with the community and also being like, hey,

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 3>there's good stuff here. It's not just us getting like

0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:38.040
<v Speaker 3>roughed up in the streets is so important, and the.

0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Like tokens of appreciation, Like I feel like this is

0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:43.720
<v Speaker 2>you were talking earlier about how movements need to be sticky,

0:30:43.760 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 2>and I know that that was like a little bit

0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:49.280
<v Speaker 2>like externally focused, but I think internally matters too. Someone

0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:54.360
<v Speaker 2>comes to their first action and someone is like, thank

0:30:54.440 --> 0:30:57.240
<v Speaker 2>you for being at that action, like here's a flower,

0:30:57.440 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 2>or here's a coin that you only get for having

0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:06.920
<v Speaker 2>been at that action or whatever. Like. Also, organizers would

0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.959
<v Speaker 2>reach out to the action participants, either in person or

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:12.280
<v Speaker 2>in phone, to check up on them a couple days after.

0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:17.080
<v Speaker 3>Hey, that's a lot of work. That's like a million

0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 3>dollar budget, that's nothing. These all volunteers. I mean, that's

0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:23.440
<v Speaker 3>also saying like, look, we don't see you just as

0:31:23.480 --> 0:31:25.560
<v Speaker 3>like bodies, you know, we don't see you just as

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:28.120
<v Speaker 3>like people who can get arrested. We want you in

0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:29.680
<v Speaker 3>this for the long haul. We want you to know

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:33.960
<v Speaker 3>you're valued. Right, which is God, that's so much work,

0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:36.920
<v Speaker 3>I know, but it also probably like kind of feels

0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 3>good when you're like, first, we're building this thing.

0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Right Before the party would start, they would start by

0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:46.440
<v Speaker 2>reading the names of those in the community who had

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:50.520
<v Speaker 2>dietabates and one more quote from Jane Adams the Jane

0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Adams Collective, which is named after a person named Jane Adams.

0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:54.239
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know as much about as I want to,

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:59.160
<v Speaker 2>but Jane Adams Collective said quote. Finally, participants that face

0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:02.600
<v Speaker 2>traumatic situations, police abuse, arrest, or a recent death of

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 2>a friend from AIDS would be invited to speak as

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:08.840
<v Speaker 2>a veteran at the next organizing meeting. This changed their

0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:12.760
<v Speaker 2>status from isolated victim to appreciated and connected veteran with

0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:16.240
<v Speaker 2>experiences to share with the group. It allowed the individual

0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:19.120
<v Speaker 2>to organize their feelings and find value and lessons for

0:32:19.160 --> 0:32:22.720
<v Speaker 2>them to share. This reduces the effects of learned helplessness

0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:29.200
<v Speaker 2>while creating context for their experience. Which all of these

0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:31.320
<v Speaker 2>quotes are not from a like here's about act up.

0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:34.880
<v Speaker 2>It's from a manual about movement mental health. That's why

0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:37.240
<v Speaker 2>it is written. It's like written by mental health professionals.

0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 3>There was something you said earlier about like the cop

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:45.720
<v Speaker 3>part or like not policing people that I think is

0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:49.320
<v Speaker 3>really interesting because I think that's another sort of thing

0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 3>that a lot of movements can fall into today. And

0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 3>my line on it is like, you know, there's everyone

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 3>wants to defund the police except for the police, the

0:32:57.360 --> 0:32:58.040
<v Speaker 3>cop in their.

0:32:57.920 --> 0:32:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Head, you know, like yeah, totally.

0:32:59.720 --> 0:33:03.280
<v Speaker 3>We kind of we're shitty to each other and we

0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:07.840
<v Speaker 3>are perfectionists with one another. We definitely try to like

0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:12.160
<v Speaker 3>cancel each other for this that you know, transgression rather

0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:15.040
<v Speaker 3>than kind of like making it broader, checking in being

0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:19.400
<v Speaker 3>like understanding and like so much of toxic I think

0:33:19.440 --> 0:33:23.880
<v Speaker 3>movement culture comes from like undiagnosed and untreated like mental

0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:30.040
<v Speaker 3>illness or distress, you know, or trauma of the work itself.

0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:32.600
<v Speaker 3>So they knew it. They were like, we need we

0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 3>have to actually be well, Like if we're alive, we

0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 3>fucking better live good. Yeah, because so many people are dead.

0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:41.920
<v Speaker 3>So it's like that's kind of the other thing. It's

0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:44.320
<v Speaker 3>like not to be too much like this is COVID,

0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:48.880
<v Speaker 3>but COVID absolutely, you know, drove home, Like what is

0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:51.760
<v Speaker 3>the value of like living? Like what do we do?

0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:54.040
<v Speaker 3>Like where do I want to be if the shit

0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:56.840
<v Speaker 3>is ending or if you know, what do I want

0:33:56.880 --> 0:33:58.480
<v Speaker 3>to do with my time? And I think if you

0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:01.760
<v Speaker 3>see people dying all around you, you live so differently.

0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:06.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. I like, I think that's such a good

0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 2>point that the stuff comes from people who are very

0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:12.920
<v Speaker 2>smart and very good at organizing, whose backs are against

0:34:12.960 --> 0:34:16.319
<v Speaker 2>the fucking wall, right, And I yeah, I think that

0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:19.840
<v Speaker 2>this idea of like I talk about it sometimes with friends,

0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:23.400
<v Speaker 2>is like like mental health first aid. You know, like

0:34:23.960 --> 0:34:26.640
<v Speaker 2>I grew up learning how to put a band aid

0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:28.880
<v Speaker 2>on a wound or even you know, I grew up

0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:32.879
<v Speaker 2>learning how to treat punctual wounds and reasonably serious injuries, right,

0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:38.560
<v Speaker 2>But no one told me after you experience a traumatic event,

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:41.600
<v Speaker 2>here are some basic steps you can take to keep

0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the wound from infecting. You know, I know how to

0:34:44.800 --> 0:34:47.319
<v Speaker 2>wash out a physical wound, but I didn't know how

0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:51.400
<v Speaker 2>to wash out a mental wound. And one of the

0:34:51.440 --> 0:34:55.720
<v Speaker 2>main answers is always comes down to things that encourage

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:58.759
<v Speaker 2>people to have agency. So if like you're in a crisis,

0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:03.560
<v Speaker 2>when you act with a agency, it causes less of

0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 2>a lasting traumatic effect on you, which isn't to say

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:08.560
<v Speaker 2>the trauma isn't real and the trauma doesn't happen. You know.

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:11.160
<v Speaker 2>It's like if someone slashes you in the arm. You're

0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:13.520
<v Speaker 2>not going to be like, ah, I'm going to just

0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:17.200
<v Speaker 2>not have been slashed, But you have to deal with

0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:19.799
<v Speaker 2>the slash and how you do that changes how it

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:23.680
<v Speaker 2>impacts you going forward. You know. Yeah, I really like

0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I learned actually almost all of that from some of

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:28.520
<v Speaker 2>the people involved in a Jane Adams collective, and I

0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:30.440
<v Speaker 2>just want to like shout them out. They're a collective

0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:34.080
<v Speaker 2>of anarchist mental health workers, both social workers and psychologists

0:35:34.080 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 2>who focus on mental health care for people in social movements,

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:38.040
<v Speaker 2>and they've written a bunch about it, and I think

0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:39.920
<v Speaker 2>they're cool, so you should check their books out.

0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:41.439
<v Speaker 3>All right.

0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 2>The next group that I'm going to have compete for

0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:48.920
<v Speaker 2>coolest would be the group that is most angry. That

0:35:49.080 --> 0:35:51.279
<v Speaker 2>before I talk about them, I'm going to talk about

0:35:51.320 --> 0:36:03.520
<v Speaker 2>a word from our sponsors, and we're back, because now

0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to talk about some of the spiciest of

0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:10.920
<v Speaker 2>the people. This group is called Queer Nation. Its founders

0:36:10.960 --> 0:36:13.040
<v Speaker 2>come from act Up in New York and they got

0:36:13.040 --> 0:36:16.400
<v Speaker 2>their start at the same LGBT Services Center, the center,

0:36:17.200 --> 0:36:19.439
<v Speaker 2>but they are more militant, and a lot of people

0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.560
<v Speaker 2>from act UP don't like them, and they like are

0:36:22.600 --> 0:36:24.160
<v Speaker 2>an aren't part of act Up in kind of an

0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:29.560
<v Speaker 2>interesting way. They were formed on March twentieth, nineteen ninety.

0:36:29.600 --> 0:36:33.040
<v Speaker 2>They are not AIDS focused. They are queer rights focused

0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:36.359
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the AIDS crisis. As far as

0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I can tell, you know, I've already basically said ACTUP

0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 2>invented everything. I'm going to add to that list. I'm

0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:44.839
<v Speaker 2>going to add two things to that list. I'm going

0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:51.799
<v Speaker 2>to add the reclamation of the word queer and I'm

0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:57.640
<v Speaker 2>going to add queer theory. So this group, more than

0:36:57.640 --> 0:37:00.520
<v Speaker 2>anyone else that I've been able to find, is responsible

0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:03.439
<v Speaker 2>for the popularization of the reclamation of the word queer.

0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:04.880
<v Speaker 2>They're not the first people who are like, oh, this

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:07.240
<v Speaker 2>insult I'm called I'm gonna go buy it on purpose,

0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:09.319
<v Speaker 2>like people have been doing that forever, you know.

0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:13.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But I like it's actually a dope word because

0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:16.080
<v Speaker 3>it's got the cue, you know, it's it's just a

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:17.240
<v Speaker 3>kind of a good word.

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:19.840
<v Speaker 2>I know, it rules. It's my favorite word for my

0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:24.719
<v Speaker 2>sexuality for two reasons. First, it doesn't answer any specifics

0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:27.719
<v Speaker 2>like I could be like, yeah, I'm a pan romantic,

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:31.120
<v Speaker 2>somewhat saffic, trans, feminine, lesbian or something right, all these

0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:34.480
<v Speaker 2>like specifics. Yeah, and I get why that's useful for

0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:38.160
<v Speaker 2>some people or not sexy. Yeah, I just tell you

0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:41.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm queer, which says who I'm attracted to is between

0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:43.640
<v Speaker 2>me and the people with whom I have mutual attraction,

0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:49.759
<v Speaker 2>which is sexy as hell. I agree, And I am

0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:52.480
<v Speaker 2>totally fine with being like my sexualities. I'm a queer

0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:56.439
<v Speaker 2>trans woman. It's fucking fine. I also like queer because

0:37:56.440 --> 0:37:59.920
<v Speaker 2>as a history of militancy, it comes out of reclamation.

0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Like a lot of my friends identify as faggots, queer

0:38:03.280 --> 0:38:06.520
<v Speaker 2>used to have a not dissimilar connotation as something sketchy

0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:09.160
<v Speaker 2>and edgy to say or identify with. And I like

0:38:09.239 --> 0:38:12.839
<v Speaker 2>that about it. And I owe that word and its

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:16.200
<v Speaker 2>reclamations to some really angry queers who started doing that

0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:20.840
<v Speaker 2>shit in nineteen ninety. Queer Nation set out to basically

0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:23.919
<v Speaker 2>force people to come to terms with homosexuality, but put

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:26.160
<v Speaker 2>it in people's faces, all the stuff that the right

0:38:26.200 --> 0:38:28.560
<v Speaker 2>wings like. People are like, well, I don't mind what

0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:30.320
<v Speaker 2>people do behind closed doors, but why do they have

0:38:30.360 --> 0:38:32.160
<v Speaker 2>to be so in your face about it, and almost

0:38:32.160 --> 0:38:33.719
<v Speaker 2>everyone is like, we're not in your face about it.

0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:35.919
<v Speaker 2>I just want to hold hands with my fucking girlfriend, right.

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Queer Nation was like, yeah, we're gonna be in your

0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:39.239
<v Speaker 2>fucking face about it.

0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you should see it. Yeah.

0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:45.360
<v Speaker 2>The first action that they took was they went to

0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:49.360
<v Speaker 2>a heterosexual bar, Flutie's Bar on April thirteenth, nineteen ninety

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:51.839
<v Speaker 2>and uh showed up and played Spin the Bottle at

0:38:51.840 --> 0:38:52.359
<v Speaker 2>a straight bar.

0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:57.480
<v Speaker 3>That's great. Yeah, I mean that's basically like I mean,

0:38:57.520 --> 0:38:59.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't mean that like equate it, but that's like

0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:03.120
<v Speaker 3>kind of and you know, that's an action of integration, right,

0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:05.759
<v Speaker 3>that's like we deserve to be here, we deserve to

0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:07.400
<v Speaker 3>be on all spaces, like deal with it.

0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, And it's it's wild to think about how

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:15.680
<v Speaker 2>for so many people of so many different marginalizations, just

0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:19.319
<v Speaker 2>existing in public is confrontational and edgy. Right, Like if

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:21.640
<v Speaker 2>I wear a dress to the store, depending on where

0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I am, I'm like doing a political action, not because

0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:27.839
<v Speaker 2>I want to be, but because it's like dangerous for

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:28.919
<v Speaker 2>me to do. Right.

0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

0:39:30.640 --> 0:39:34.319
<v Speaker 2>Another thing that Queer Nation invented or developed the chant

0:39:34.360 --> 0:39:36.040
<v Speaker 2>we're here, we're queer, get used to it.

0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:40.320
<v Speaker 3>Great chance. I know, I can't say we're here without

0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:42.640
<v Speaker 3>wanting to say we're queer. Get used to it. And

0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:44.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm not queer, and I don't think I should be

0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:47.120
<v Speaker 3>saying it that much, but it's my favorite chant.

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:49.920
<v Speaker 2>It's still a good chance. Unfortunately, I'm so grow up

0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the Simpsons that I think we're here, we're here, we're queer,

0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:56.640
<v Speaker 2>and we don't want any more bears.

0:39:58.280 --> 0:39:59.719
<v Speaker 3>I don't remember that episode.

0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like all I remember about the episode. It's

0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:05.120
<v Speaker 2>not about bears. Is in like a large, hairy homosexual

0:40:05.200 --> 0:40:09.279
<v Speaker 2>needs to be clear, it's it's it was like an

0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:11.880
<v Speaker 2>episode of The Simpsons where like bears are attacking the

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:16.320
<v Speaker 2>town or something I don't remember, and so people protest

0:40:16.360 --> 0:40:19.680
<v Speaker 2>against it and someone chants that, and it's in my head.

0:40:20.040 --> 0:40:24.040
<v Speaker 2>It's probably the first time I heard that chant. One

0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:27.120
<v Speaker 2>of the ideological successors of queer Nation is the modern

0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:30.200
<v Speaker 2>group Bashback, and I remember the first time I was

0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:32.680
<v Speaker 2>out as queer was at a Bashback convention in Chicago.

0:40:33.040 --> 0:40:35.200
<v Speaker 2>I was there with my boyfriend. I wasn't out as tranced,

0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:36.680
<v Speaker 2>even to myself at the time. I was just a

0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:39.719
<v Speaker 2>boy named Margaret and I held his hand as we

0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:42.160
<v Speaker 2>took to the streets in all black and pink, chanting

0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:46.880
<v Speaker 2>one in ten is not enough. Recruit, recruit, which is

0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:48.919
<v Speaker 2>I think the modern version of we're here where queer

0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:51.279
<v Speaker 2>get used to it, which is the like, We're going

0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:53.520
<v Speaker 2>to take these things you say about us and like

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:56.800
<v Speaker 2>throw them at you, be like, yeah, we are at recruiting,

0:40:56.920 --> 0:40:59.600
<v Speaker 2>what do you want? And I really liked it because

0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:01.919
<v Speaker 2>I had just and recruited. I met a really cute boy.

0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:09.839
<v Speaker 2>I thought I was straight, So anyway, Queer Nation. They

0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:13.680
<v Speaker 2>also almost certainly where Bashback has its name. Queer Nation

0:41:13.800 --> 0:41:16.400
<v Speaker 2>went to protest with banners that read things like dikes

0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:18.600
<v Speaker 2>and fags bashback, I.

0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Fucking love that, Like that's so great.

0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They're also pointed to regularly as one of the

0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:28.720
<v Speaker 2>founders of queer theory. They showed up at the nineteen

0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:31.759
<v Speaker 2>ninety Pride Parade in New York City, where the Manifesto

0:41:31.840 --> 0:41:35.520
<v Speaker 2>printed a long, double sided sheet I think called queers

0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:39.640
<v Speaker 2>read this, or read some of it? It opens. How

0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:42.440
<v Speaker 2>can I tell you? How can I convince you, brother sister,

0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:45.000
<v Speaker 2>that your life is in danger, that every day you

0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:48.560
<v Speaker 2>wake up alive, relatively happy and a functioning human being.

0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:52.440
<v Speaker 2>You are committing a rebellious act. You, as an alive

0:41:52.480 --> 0:41:56.040
<v Speaker 2>and functioning queer, are a revolutionary There is nothing on

0:41:56.080 --> 0:42:00.279
<v Speaker 2>this planet that validates, protects, or encourages your existence. It

0:42:00.360 --> 0:42:03.400
<v Speaker 2>is a miracle that you are standing here reading these words.

0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:07.240
<v Speaker 2>You should, by all rights, be dead. Don't be fooled.

0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Straight people own the world, and the only reason you

0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:13.400
<v Speaker 2>have been spared is that you're smart, lucky, or a fighter.

0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:18.799
<v Speaker 2>It also said queer can be a rough word, but

0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:20.960
<v Speaker 2>it is also a sly and ironic weapon we can

0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:23.640
<v Speaker 2>steal from the homophob's hands and use against him.

0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:25.800
<v Speaker 3>Ooh, that's so brilliant.

0:42:26.080 --> 0:42:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a sly and what is it? Ironic weapon we

0:42:30.200 --> 0:42:34.200
<v Speaker 2>can steal from the homophob's hands. Yeah. And then the

0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:36.759
<v Speaker 2>last piece in it is the reason it was controversial

0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:39.600
<v Speaker 2>even among act up. The last piece on it was

0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:45.440
<v Speaker 2>called I hate straits, and it includes the line I

0:42:45.520 --> 0:42:48.440
<v Speaker 2>hate having to convince straight people that lesbians and gays

0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:51.640
<v Speaker 2>live in a war zone, that we're surrounded by bomb blasts.

0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.400
<v Speaker 2>Only we seem to hear that our bodies and souls

0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:57.680
<v Speaker 2>are heaped high, dead from fright, or bashed or raped,

0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.959
<v Speaker 2>dying of grief or disease of our personhood. I hate

0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:05.600
<v Speaker 2>straight people who can't listen to Queer Anger without saying, hey,

0:43:05.640 --> 0:43:08.360
<v Speaker 2>all straight people aren't like that. I'm straight to, you know,

0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:12.759
<v Speaker 2>And it ends with go tell them until they have

0:43:12.800 --> 0:43:14.920
<v Speaker 2>spent a month walking hand in hand in public with

0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:18.200
<v Speaker 2>someone of the same sex. After they survive that, then

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:21.440
<v Speaker 2>you'll hear what they have to say about queer Anger. Otherwise,

0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:24.800
<v Speaker 2>tell them to shut up and listen. It's really interesting

0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:26.879
<v Speaker 2>because this piece, it starts off like I hate straits, right,

0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:29.960
<v Speaker 2>it actually does a fairly good job of saying, like, no,

0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.360
<v Speaker 2>I hate straight people who don't let me be angry

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:37.040
<v Speaker 2>about heterosexuality compulsively running the world right, Like it even

0:43:37.080 --> 0:43:41.239
<v Speaker 2>includes it's like I hate everyone who says hashtag not

0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:44.480
<v Speaker 2>all straits, you know, basically like it uses that same

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:47.319
<v Speaker 2>terminology that I think people like later developed when they

0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:50.120
<v Speaker 2>were like complaining about not all men or whatever.

0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:53.600
<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, not all men. All lives matter. It's just

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:57.400
<v Speaker 3>like the fragility of the powerful is just you know,

0:43:57.600 --> 0:44:01.080
<v Speaker 3>so it permeates every single movement. And also to see that,

0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:04.200
<v Speaker 3>you know, it sounds like some allies even are like well,

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.120
<v Speaker 3>just so you know, like I'm I'm cool, and it's like,

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:10.240
<v Speaker 3>this is not about you and your feelings, right, And

0:44:10.320 --> 0:44:13.719
<v Speaker 3>it kind of like abdicates responsibility when you just want to, like,

0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:17.720
<v Speaker 3>you know, save your own ass and make sure everyone

0:44:17.760 --> 0:44:20.680
<v Speaker 3>knows you're you're the cool straight right. And I think

0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:22.759
<v Speaker 3>that is sort of the emotional labor of like we're

0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:25.960
<v Speaker 3>tired of doing some of this work because you'll never

0:44:26.080 --> 0:44:28.279
<v Speaker 3>know what it's like. And that's how I tried to

0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:33.680
<v Speaker 3>explain too. I mean, I sometimes try to explain it,

0:44:33.719 --> 0:44:36.080
<v Speaker 3>and I'm I'm better, I'm worse at it. But I

0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:38.759
<v Speaker 3>think for me, when it dawned on me that like,

0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:41.920
<v Speaker 3>like if I was confused about queer theory, if I

0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:45.400
<v Speaker 3>didn't get it, it was because I'm not queer. If

0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:49.920
<v Speaker 3>I didn't understand like you know, like trans people, it's

0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:52.319
<v Speaker 3>because I literally would never understand what it was like

0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:54.880
<v Speaker 3>to feel like you were in a body that was

0:44:54.920 --> 0:44:58.080
<v Speaker 3>not yours, that was the wrong body. I will and

0:44:58.120 --> 0:45:00.640
<v Speaker 3>I will never understand that, just like pure and once

0:45:00.680 --> 0:45:04.200
<v Speaker 3>you sort of like let that wash over you, I

0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:07.880
<v Speaker 3>feel like then you can really be a better person

0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:11.680
<v Speaker 3>and an ally because it's not fucking about my understanding,

0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:13.840
<v Speaker 3>it's about whether I believe in human rights or not.

0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Right. Yeah, Like, I I don't know what it's like

0:45:17.840 --> 0:45:21.680
<v Speaker 2>to be a personal color. I never will, like right, okay,

0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:24.959
<v Speaker 2>I you know, I will just listen to people about

0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:28.400
<v Speaker 2>their experiences and believe them, you know, right.

0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:31.640
<v Speaker 3>Exactly exactly. You don't have to like go I mean

0:45:31.680 --> 0:45:34.480
<v Speaker 3>you can, like me, like do some testing and figure

0:45:34.480 --> 0:45:38.880
<v Speaker 3>out whether bigotry exists. But it does. But yeah, yeah,

0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:42.799
<v Speaker 3>I think that's I don't know, but yeah, it's not

0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:45.080
<v Speaker 3>even that radical. But I can imagine that for at

0:45:45.080 --> 0:45:46.960
<v Speaker 3>the time when they're like really trying to build and

0:45:47.080 --> 0:45:50.120
<v Speaker 3>like gay Straight Alliance, right, that was that, you know,

0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:51.759
<v Speaker 3>I think that was a lot of people's kind of

0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:56.640
<v Speaker 3>liberal on ramp to you know, activism, and that had

0:45:56.680 --> 0:45:59.160
<v Speaker 3>to include straight people. It was a gay straight alliance,

0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:00.759
<v Speaker 3>like we're working to get right.

0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:04.160
<v Speaker 2>But hear me out, Okay, So I started the Gay

0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Straight Alliance at my high school as a as a

0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:09.799
<v Speaker 2>straight kid. There was no gay people in my gay

0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:13.600
<v Speaker 2>straight alliance. We most of us were gay. Yeah, Like,

0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:18.719
<v Speaker 2>but it's interesting thing where Gay Straight Alliance is like one,

0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:21.640
<v Speaker 2>it is actually good to be an alliance with people, right,

0:46:21.920 --> 0:46:26.200
<v Speaker 2>It is like genuinely good, but it's also it's an out.

0:46:26.320 --> 0:46:28.279
<v Speaker 2>It's a way of saying like, you don't have to

0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:29.959
<v Speaker 2>come out of the closet to join the Gay Straight

0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Alliance in a way that you have to come out

0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:33.440
<v Speaker 2>of the closet in order to join the gay club

0:46:33.719 --> 0:46:36.719
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, right, right, right right, because like when I

0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:40.799
<v Speaker 2>came out, like the next school over, the head of

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:43.560
<v Speaker 2>the GSA was an out gay kid and it was hospitalized,

0:46:44.160 --> 0:46:47.520
<v Speaker 2>you know. Fuck. And it's funny. The way we started

0:46:47.520 --> 0:46:50.120
<v Speaker 2>my Gay Straight Alliance was I had been going to

0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:53.719
<v Speaker 2>these regional GSA meetings and these two teachers who were

0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:57.759
<v Speaker 2>so obviously in retrospect lesbians, They weren't out. One was

0:46:57.800 --> 0:46:59.920
<v Speaker 2>the woman gym teacher and the other was the like

0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:04.960
<v Speaker 2>butch social studies teacher with a hyphenated last name. They

0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:09.759
<v Speaker 2>weren't together, no, I don't think so, and they like

0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:12.600
<v Speaker 2>cornered me in the stairwell where like the bad kids

0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:15.120
<v Speaker 2>hung out in the morning, you know. And they were like,

0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:18.759
<v Speaker 2>did you know that teachers can't start student groups? And

0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:21.200
<v Speaker 2>I was like huh. And they were like, here's all

0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:24.040
<v Speaker 2>the paperwork, it's all filled out. Do you want to

0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:26.520
<v Speaker 2>start the Gay Straight Alliance? And I was like I

0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:28.919
<v Speaker 2>do what a brilliant idea I have had.

0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:33.640
<v Speaker 3>That's so funny they got to the credit. Yeah, that's

0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:37.319
<v Speaker 3>so great. Slash did all the work for you. Yeah

0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:40.120
<v Speaker 3>I didn't. Yeah, but teachers could like join later on.

0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:41.040
<v Speaker 3>I felt like.

0:47:41.440 --> 0:47:44.520
<v Speaker 2>They were advisors. So these were the teacher this like

0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:48.080
<v Speaker 2>the the group had to be started by students, but

0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:49.760
<v Speaker 2>it needed teacher advisors.

0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Any right, right right, Yeah, I'm like trying to remember

0:47:51.880 --> 0:47:54.480
<v Speaker 3>how the politics of clubs worked in my school, right,

0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:57.760
<v Speaker 3>But anyway, Yeah, No, that's a really good point about

0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:03.120
<v Speaker 3>gay straight alliances. But yeah, I think that's interesting because

0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:05.359
<v Speaker 3>like liberals wouldn't like that because you don't want to

0:48:05.440 --> 0:48:09.840
<v Speaker 3>demonize the people you're supposed to be, you know, lobbying.

0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Mm.

0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:13.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally exactly. And so a lot of people an

0:48:13.840 --> 0:48:18.279
<v Speaker 2>act up were really upset by by this, and other

0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:20.799
<v Speaker 2>people were really excited by it, you know. And and

0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:23.480
<v Speaker 2>that's actually one of the things that I hearing people

0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:25.400
<v Speaker 2>who are in act up talk about it that they

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:27.640
<v Speaker 2>kind of in retrospect, they're really excited about. They're like,

0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:33.000
<v Speaker 2>we could disagree about things like we It wasn't everyone

0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:36.600
<v Speaker 2>had to accept everything that everyone else did. It's that

0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:40.000
<v Speaker 2>you didn't kick people out so you were like, I mean,

0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:42.359
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm sure some people were kicked out, but like,

0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:46.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, overall, you were like, Okay, well, these people

0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:48.239
<v Speaker 2>are doing things that isn't how I would do it,

0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, and that doesn't stop. But it doesn't occur

0:48:52.160 --> 0:48:53.600
<v Speaker 2>to you to then be like, now I'm going to

0:48:53.600 --> 0:48:56.719
<v Speaker 2>put all of my effort into fighting queer nation, you know.

0:48:56.800 --> 0:48:59.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but again that's sort of part and parcel of like,

0:48:59.560 --> 0:49:06.879
<v Speaker 3>you know, dire circumstances requires more alliances and requires more

0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:10.000
<v Speaker 3>diversity of tactics, right, because what the fuck do we

0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:10.640
<v Speaker 3>have to lose?

0:49:11.120 --> 0:49:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like you're gonna kick that person out. They're dying,

0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:20.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, right, right, and queer nations started. This is

0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:24.040
<v Speaker 2>the era where homosexuality hit mainstream discourse in the US,

0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:28.560
<v Speaker 2>and it is a dangerous moment. Trans people are discovering

0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:30.000
<v Speaker 2>this now. I mean, it was still part of the

0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 2>earlier stuff too, So once homosexuality entered the mainstream discourse,

0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:39.319
<v Speaker 2>violence spiked. By April nineteen ninety, violence was up one

0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:44.600
<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty two percent since the start of nineteen ninety.

0:49:44.200 --> 0:49:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Like in a four month period, violence went up one

0:49:47.760 --> 0:49:52.040
<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty two percent on April twenty eighth. I

0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:54.719
<v Speaker 2>wrote twenty twenty four into my script, but that's not

0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:57.760
<v Speaker 2>when it happened. I will bet money it's nineteen ninety,

0:49:57.800 --> 0:50:00.360
<v Speaker 2>but it might be nineteen ninety one. I'm so sorry

0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:05.879
<v Speaker 2>the future listening to this. A guy named a gay

0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:09.319
<v Speaker 2>bar named Uncle Charlie's I'm so good at my job.

0:50:10.280 --> 0:50:13.360
<v Speaker 2>It was bombed with a pipe bomb and this injured

0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:15.719
<v Speaker 2>three patrons. It sent them to the hospital. It was

0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:19.200
<v Speaker 2>like minor injuries and the police were immediately like, oh,

0:50:19.239 --> 0:50:23.439
<v Speaker 2>this isn't a bias related crime, just a regular run

0:50:23.440 --> 0:50:26.080
<v Speaker 2>of the mill, not hate related bombing of a gay bar.

0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Jesus.

0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:31.120
<v Speaker 2>Within hours after the blast, Queer Nation had a thousand

0:50:31.200 --> 0:50:35.720
<v Speaker 2>queers in the street to protest. Wow and actually eventually

0:50:35.719 --> 0:50:37.439
<v Speaker 2>the bomber was caught. It was one of the first

0:50:37.440 --> 0:50:40.000
<v Speaker 2>attacks on you of soil by a radical Muslim group

0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:43.239
<v Speaker 2>that had targeted the bar for homosexuality. Alongside a bunch

0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:47.520
<v Speaker 2>of other like New York City landmarks. Queer Nation soon

0:50:47.600 --> 0:50:51.840
<v Speaker 2>spread across the country also, but they also took field

0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:54.800
<v Speaker 2>trips like individual groups. On May twelfth, they launched the

0:50:54.880 --> 0:50:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Queer Shopping Network, where they went to a Jersey City

0:50:57.760 --> 0:51:01.040
<v Speaker 2>mall to flyer about queerness with info about like famous

0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:04.040
<v Speaker 2>queers in history and safe sex tips, and it was

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.960
<v Speaker 2>titled we're here, We're queer and we'd like to say hello.

0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh And I like that because it's they're doing both.

0:51:11.760 --> 0:51:13.640
<v Speaker 2>They are going to put out the flyer that says

0:51:13.760 --> 0:51:18.800
<v Speaker 2>I hate straits and then explain its position. They're also

0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:21.240
<v Speaker 2>going to a you know, a mall in Jersey City

0:51:21.360 --> 0:51:24.920
<v Speaker 2>to be like, hey, queer people exist and we're fine.

0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:26.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly.

0:51:26.120 --> 0:51:27.160
<v Speaker 2>You could even be one.

0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:31.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting. That's sort of

0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:34.160
<v Speaker 3>it reminds me like the I think it was a

0:51:34.239 --> 0:51:38.439
<v Speaker 3>Z's who has like a bit about you know, Muslims,

0:51:38.520 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 3>just like there need to be more positive images of them,

0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:45.480
<v Speaker 3>just like eating a sandwich, like yeah, talking about a

0:51:45.520 --> 0:51:49.680
<v Speaker 3>video game. You never see those depictions. But yeah, It's

0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:53.600
<v Speaker 3>what's incredible about this is how much these movements are

0:51:53.640 --> 0:51:56.120
<v Speaker 3>meeting people where they're at, Like, even if they're very

0:51:56.239 --> 0:51:59.560
<v Speaker 3>radical themselves, and even if their tactics are radical, it's

0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:05.360
<v Speaker 3>like the targets are so a mall also media massive target.

0:52:05.400 --> 0:52:07.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean that was that to me feels like a

0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:11.799
<v Speaker 3>very distinctly eighties thing, right, Like Yeah, that understanding that

0:52:12.640 --> 0:52:15.120
<v Speaker 3>you have to fuck with the media because they are

0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:19.040
<v Speaker 3>driving this narrative broadly. And if you don't hold The

0:52:19.080 --> 0:52:24.160
<v Speaker 3>Times accountable or hold Cosmopolitan accountable, you know, like they're

0:52:24.239 --> 0:52:29.279
<v Speaker 3>legitimate targets and you can affect thespective, the perspective of

0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:30.319
<v Speaker 3>the country if you do that.

0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. And I'm going to talk about one final

0:52:35.400 --> 0:52:37.640
<v Speaker 2>aspect of act UP that they were heavily involved in

0:52:37.680 --> 0:52:43.080
<v Speaker 2>to save even more uncountable lives because act UP, along

0:52:43.080 --> 0:52:47.160
<v Speaker 2>with others during the AIDS crisis, developed needle exchange programs

0:52:47.200 --> 0:52:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and fought for the legalization of needle exchange programs, which

0:52:51.200 --> 0:52:53.279
<v Speaker 2>they did in that order, which is the correct order

0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:55.960
<v Speaker 2>to do life saving work. Start when it's illegal, if

0:52:56.000 --> 0:52:58.040
<v Speaker 2>it needs to be done, and then demand that it

0:52:58.040 --> 0:53:02.719
<v Speaker 2>become legal. Possession and non prescription sale of needles was

0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:05.120
<v Speaker 2>illegal in a bunch of states, eleven of them in

0:53:05.200 --> 0:53:08.400
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety one. These are the states with the highest

0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:13.560
<v Speaker 2>incidents of AIDS, so illegal needle exchanges started up, providing

0:53:13.600 --> 0:53:16.920
<v Speaker 2>clean works to intravenous drug users. Some of these actually

0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:19.480
<v Speaker 2>pre date act UP, like the National AIDS Brigade in

0:53:19.480 --> 0:53:23.439
<v Speaker 2>Connecticut that started in nineteen eighty six. San Francisco had

0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Prevention Point act Up, Boston had the Ivy League, plus

0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:29.120
<v Speaker 2>New York and the East Bay act Up also did

0:53:29.160 --> 0:53:29.880
<v Speaker 2>needle exchange.

0:53:29.920 --> 0:53:32.479
<v Speaker 3>That was probably more that's great and it's just a good,

0:53:32.640 --> 0:53:33.640
<v Speaker 3>good pun.

0:53:35.680 --> 0:53:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Especially in Boston.

0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:40.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, but I mean that's so that's so radical

0:53:40.880 --> 0:53:42.960
<v Speaker 3>in itself, like first start doing something illegally. It's like

0:53:43.000 --> 0:53:47.040
<v Speaker 3>abortion clinics were the same thing. I mean, underground abortion providers.

0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:52.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. Study after study was showing even back then

0:53:52.360 --> 0:53:54.920
<v Speaker 2>that access to clean needles greatly reduced the spread of

0:53:54.960 --> 0:53:57.560
<v Speaker 2>AIDS among needle drug users and it did not increase

0:53:57.600 --> 0:54:01.480
<v Speaker 2>the incidents of drug use. So there's like, like at

0:54:01.480 --> 0:54:04.120
<v Speaker 2>one point in the mid nineties, they were referencing six

0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:07.680
<v Speaker 2>different studies that have been done because Clinton kept being like,

0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:11.040
<v Speaker 2>oh well, I'll get to it. So some of these

0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:15.160
<v Speaker 2>exchanges started to be run by cities, which was complicated.

0:54:15.560 --> 0:54:18.799
<v Speaker 2>A journalist writing at the time named Liz Hileyman wrote

0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:21.600
<v Speaker 2>about the needle exchange for the Love and Rage Anarchist

0:54:21.640 --> 0:54:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Federation in nineteen ninety one. She wrote, state programs tend

0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:28.279
<v Speaker 2>to exclude activists, and her tailored to meet the needs

0:54:28.280 --> 0:54:32.000
<v Speaker 2>of bureaucrats rather than drug users. For example, a pilot

0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:35.400
<v Speaker 2>needle exchange program in New York City required drug users

0:54:35.440 --> 0:54:38.560
<v Speaker 2>to come to a central facility located across the street

0:54:38.840 --> 0:54:43.759
<v Speaker 2>from the police station. Why would anyone come to my drug?

0:54:43.880 --> 0:54:44.880
<v Speaker 3>Come on now?

0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:50.000
<v Speaker 2>And this is like around the same time that you know,

0:54:50.080 --> 0:54:53.399
<v Speaker 2>as they're trying to do activism to help street sex

0:54:53.400 --> 0:54:57.280
<v Speaker 2>workers have access to condoms. Yes, cops are going around

0:54:57.400 --> 0:55:01.040
<v Speaker 2>and you know, arresting women for having condoms pocket because

0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:03.239
<v Speaker 2>that could be seen as evidence that they are doing

0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:06.400
<v Speaker 2>sex work, which of course meant that fewer sex workers

0:55:06.480 --> 0:55:12.160
<v Speaker 2>use condoms, which meant that HIV continued to x sex workers. Yeah,

0:55:12.200 --> 0:55:15.160
<v Speaker 2>but the government, the federal government wouldn't help out, even

0:55:15.160 --> 0:55:18.280
<v Speaker 2>as cities did their like awkward and sort of sometimes

0:55:18.360 --> 0:55:22.400
<v Speaker 2>well intentioned and sometimes not things. Congress passed its first

0:55:22.480 --> 0:55:25.520
<v Speaker 2>law that said or statute that said no federal money

0:55:25.560 --> 0:55:29.719
<v Speaker 2>for syringe distribution in nineteen eighty eight. That same statute

0:55:29.760 --> 0:55:31.680
<v Speaker 2>is still in effect in some ways today.

0:55:32.200 --> 0:55:33.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what's gonna say.

0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:38.080
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen ninety six, the Foundation for Aids Research determined

0:55:38.080 --> 0:55:41.080
<v Speaker 2>that syringe exchange programs dropped HIV infections in New York

0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:46.759
<v Speaker 2>City by two thirds Jesus Christ, Clinton still wouldn't. Like

0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Clinton had said something basically like, oh, once we have

0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:52.920
<v Speaker 2>evidence that it'll it doesn't cause more drug use or whatever,

0:55:53.080 --> 0:55:54.680
<v Speaker 2>we'll do it. And so then they were like, here's

0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:56.600
<v Speaker 2>six studies, and he was like no, never mind.

0:55:57.800 --> 0:56:01.560
<v Speaker 3>Still no, yeah, and yeah, anyway you might get to it.

0:56:01.600 --> 0:56:03.759
<v Speaker 3>But I'm just reminded of the most recent freak out

0:56:03.800 --> 0:56:06.800
<v Speaker 3>during the pandemic, where I think the Biden administration included

0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:13.040
<v Speaker 3>like clean needles in a kit for drug users. I

0:56:13.080 --> 0:56:15.319
<v Speaker 3>believe it was like federally funded in part, and the

0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:20.640
<v Speaker 3>right freaked out about it. Yeah, and they were removed.

0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I believe it.

0:56:22.960 --> 0:56:26.040
<v Speaker 3>They keep doing it, like they're they're trying to pass

0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:29.360
<v Speaker 3>more legislation. They keep on trying to rescind federal funding

0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:33.440
<v Speaker 3>for safe drug use while simultaneously, you know, decrying the

0:56:33.480 --> 0:56:36.040
<v Speaker 3>fentanyl crisis. It's like, you literally have no plan and

0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:37.400
<v Speaker 3>you're not serious about stopping this.

0:56:37.800 --> 0:56:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. In nineteen ninety seven, Act Up New York

0:56:43.719 --> 0:56:47.640
<v Speaker 2>started a campaign for federal funding of needle exchange, and

0:56:48.239 --> 0:56:49.600
<v Speaker 2>to be fair, this is one of the ones they

0:56:49.600 --> 0:56:53.040
<v Speaker 2>didn't win, but they sure drew attention to the issue.

0:56:53.480 --> 0:56:56.680
<v Speaker 2>A thousand people marched on Clinton's birthday party in Manhattan

0:56:56.719 --> 0:57:00.879
<v Speaker 2>in June. They formed the National Coalition to Lives Now,

0:57:00.960 --> 0:57:03.200
<v Speaker 2>with an exclamation mark at the end because it was

0:57:03.239 --> 0:57:06.960
<v Speaker 2>the nineties, and they marched on like the Department of

0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Health and Human Services. By October nineteen ninety seven, a

0:57:10.719 --> 0:57:13.120
<v Speaker 2>bunch of the Presidential Advisory Council on AIDS, so they

0:57:13.120 --> 0:57:15.000
<v Speaker 2>were going to resign and mass if he didn't start

0:57:15.000 --> 0:57:19.160
<v Speaker 2>funding needle exchange. Activists interrupted the president to ask about

0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:21.200
<v Speaker 2>this policy, and they were like willing. They'd like go

0:57:21.280 --> 0:57:23.640
<v Speaker 2>to his fundraisers and shit, and they would get like

0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:26.120
<v Speaker 2>tackled and attacked by supporters in order to do so.

0:57:28.000 --> 0:57:30.760
<v Speaker 2>And what they were successful at they didn't get the

0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:34.440
<v Speaker 2>federal funding. The New York Public Department of Health said

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:38.240
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen ninety sixty percent of injection drug users had HIV.

0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:42.240
<v Speaker 2>After a decade of syringe activism, it went down to

0:57:42.320 --> 0:57:47.120
<v Speaker 2>ten percent by two thousand and one. That is how

0:57:47.160 --> 0:57:48.080
<v Speaker 2>you save lives.

0:57:50.000 --> 0:57:52.880
<v Speaker 3>They didn't still being discussed. I'm sorry, I'm just like

0:57:52.920 --> 0:57:55.440
<v Speaker 3>there's been there are just these things that like and

0:57:55.520 --> 0:57:58.760
<v Speaker 3>I think this safe drug use and needle exchange and

0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:02.000
<v Speaker 3>harm reduction is one of like the biggest no brainers,

0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:05.040
<v Speaker 3>next to like, do we need more money for cops? No?

0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:08.200
<v Speaker 3>But that one is like, there is so much evidence

0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:12.480
<v Speaker 3>this saves lives, but it is so politically somehow still

0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:17.200
<v Speaker 3>politically toxic, even though everyone has family members, everyone has

0:58:17.280 --> 0:58:21.440
<v Speaker 3>friends who've suffered, who've died. Like, you know, you've got

0:58:21.480 --> 0:58:25.640
<v Speaker 3>fucking Gavin Newsom in California vetoing laws to create like

0:58:26.200 --> 0:58:30.280
<v Speaker 3>statewide harm reduction programs even though it's been approved by

0:58:30.360 --> 0:58:34.200
<v Speaker 3>the legislature and the studies are there, But no, he

0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:37.919
<v Speaker 3>cannot do it. It's just seen as politically toxic. There's

0:58:37.960 --> 0:58:39.920
<v Speaker 3>too many of these issues where people can be just

0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:41.040
<v Speaker 3>so fucking cowardly.

0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. In two thousand and nine, the federal band was

0:58:44.040 --> 0:58:46.480
<v Speaker 2>like briefly rescinded, but then Republicans to control of the House.

0:58:46.480 --> 0:58:48.920
<v Speaker 2>In twenty eleven, it was reinstituted. And I asked a

0:58:48.920 --> 0:58:50.680
<v Speaker 2>friend of mine who works in harm reduction about this.

0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:53.200
<v Speaker 2>I was like, hey, do you like where's that currently?

0:58:53.200 --> 0:58:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Because there's a lot of news articles, but they're all

0:58:54.720 --> 0:58:56.440
<v Speaker 2>like two years old, three years old, at least the

0:58:56.480 --> 0:58:58.440
<v Speaker 2>ones that I found. And so my friend told me

0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:01.560
<v Speaker 2>that In twenty eighteen, the consolidated Appropriations Act allowed for

0:59:01.640 --> 0:59:05.440
<v Speaker 2>federal funds to support syringe service programs, but those funds

0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:07.680
<v Speaker 2>can't be used to buy the actual needles. You can

0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:11.440
<v Speaker 2>do everything else, but you can't buy the needles, even

0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:14.720
<v Speaker 2>with federal funds, which is one of the cheapest parts

0:59:14.720 --> 0:59:16.040
<v Speaker 2>of running a harm reduction clinic.

0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:18.080
<v Speaker 3>What does that even mean? Would you like, like here

0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:20.520
<v Speaker 3>you can three D print a needle and they give

0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:21.280
<v Speaker 3>you the blue print.

0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:24.040
<v Speaker 2>I think you go out and buy the needles yourself

0:59:24.080 --> 0:59:28.040
<v Speaker 2>with with other funds, but the you know, and then

0:59:28.120 --> 0:59:28.439
<v Speaker 2>a lot.

0:59:28.360 --> 0:59:30.560
<v Speaker 3>Of civic funds can't be used for needles.

0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:35.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's their like way of threading that needle, uh,

0:59:37.280 --> 0:59:40.520
<v Speaker 2>running the needle. I love harm reduction services because they

0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:42.840
<v Speaker 2>operate when it's when it's legal and when it's illegal.

0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:46.360
<v Speaker 2>I like drove up to an HIV place once to

0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:49.160
<v Speaker 2>get tested and this like guy met me in the

0:59:49.200 --> 0:59:51.600
<v Speaker 2>parking lot was like, do you need some needles? I

0:59:51.640 --> 0:59:53.920
<v Speaker 2>was like, what, No, I'm here for HIV testing. He's like, oh,

0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:57.240
<v Speaker 2>never mind. And it was it was during a period

0:59:57.240 --> 0:59:59.440
<v Speaker 2>where the state I was in it was illegal. There

0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:02.280
<v Speaker 2>was like a it constantly happens right where harm reduction

1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:04.880
<v Speaker 2>services will be like doing their thing and then like

1:00:04.920 --> 1:00:07.919
<v Speaker 2>some Republican will be like, now it's a crime, yes, yeah,

1:00:07.960 --> 1:00:09.959
<v Speaker 2>and then they just keep doing it. It just means

1:00:10.000 --> 1:00:12.680
<v Speaker 2>that someone who's not associated with the clinic is hanging

1:00:12.720 --> 1:00:16.720
<v Speaker 2>out in the parking lot giving away needles, which yeah.

1:00:17.160 --> 1:00:20.480
<v Speaker 3>That's actually like wonderful. And like I was saying, do

1:00:20.520 --> 1:00:24.400
<v Speaker 3>you think yeah, and I think that I do feel

1:00:24.400 --> 1:00:27.600
<v Speaker 3>like the abortion rights and reproductive rights movement needs to

1:00:27.640 --> 1:00:29.400
<v Speaker 3>take a page out of that. It's like, these are

1:00:29.440 --> 1:00:31.640
<v Speaker 3>going to be happening no matter what. And if y'all

1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:33.920
<v Speaker 3>can like ping pong with the fucking legislation as much

1:00:33.960 --> 1:00:36.680
<v Speaker 3>as you want, but people need this life saving care.

1:00:36.720 --> 1:00:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. And that you know, no idea that guy

1:00:41.360 --> 1:00:44.160
<v Speaker 2>in the parking lot was. That man was like, I'm

1:00:44.520 --> 1:00:48.000
<v Speaker 2>gonna go do a crime every day that SAMs like

1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:51.160
<v Speaker 2>get caught or until the laws change, because he was like,

1:00:51.280 --> 1:00:54.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna fucking stop people from dying, and like that

1:00:54.600 --> 1:00:56.479
<v Speaker 2>anonymous hero is my fucking hero.

1:00:57.040 --> 1:00:59.000
<v Speaker 3>You know, hell yeah, anonymous hero.

1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:05.400
<v Speaker 2>So in nineteen ninety six, AIDS deaths took their first

1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:08.840
<v Speaker 2>dip in the US thanks to new drugs, safer sex education,

1:01:09.000 --> 1:01:11.920
<v Speaker 2>harm reduction, and just all the things that act UP

1:01:11.960 --> 1:01:16.960
<v Speaker 2>fought for. Like there's no I mean yes, there's other

1:01:17.040 --> 1:01:20.520
<v Speaker 2>people involved, absolutely, the researchers, absolutely, the people doing this

1:01:20.680 --> 1:01:22.680
<v Speaker 2>other work who weren't necessarily part of act UP. Act

1:01:22.720 --> 1:01:24.960
<v Speaker 2>UP is not alone in having done this, but they

1:01:25.000 --> 1:01:29.240
<v Speaker 2>were part of a movement that worked. Act UP New

1:01:29.320 --> 1:01:31.800
<v Speaker 2>York is still around, it is still non hierarchical and

1:01:31.840 --> 1:01:34.360
<v Speaker 2>all volunteer. It's not as big as it used to be.

1:01:34.960 --> 1:01:37.760
<v Speaker 2>They're also nonpartisan and they don't endorse politicians, but they

1:01:37.760 --> 1:01:42.720
<v Speaker 2>are very vocal about supporting Palestine. And so all the

1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:48.400
<v Speaker 2>like silence equals death with the triangle watermelon like act

1:01:48.480 --> 1:01:51.000
<v Speaker 2>UP seems to fucking approve. You know, that's not a

1:01:51.040 --> 1:01:56.000
<v Speaker 2>misappropriation of that iconography. And I want to end by

1:01:56.040 --> 1:01:59.560
<v Speaker 2>describing one more action, the final action that was taken

1:01:59.600 --> 1:02:01.640
<v Speaker 2>by a guy named Steve Michael, the founder of the

1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:05.320
<v Speaker 2>DC chapter, because before he did this action, on May

1:02:06.120 --> 1:02:09.720
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety eight, he died. He died due to AIDS

1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:15.080
<v Speaker 2>related pneumonia. His last wish was a political funeral, So

1:02:15.080 --> 1:02:18.760
<v Speaker 2>one hundred people proceeded in silence for half a mile

1:02:18.840 --> 1:02:21.840
<v Speaker 2>up to the White House holding his open casket while

1:02:21.840 --> 1:02:25.160
<v Speaker 2>he wore an ACT up shirt, his loved ones gave

1:02:25.200 --> 1:02:27.520
<v Speaker 2>eulogies in front of the White House and condemned the

1:02:27.520 --> 1:02:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Clinton administration for their legacy of.

1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:32.720
<v Speaker 3>Inaction and amazing.

1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's just fucking beautiful. Like we all die, you know,

1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:42.600
<v Speaker 2>like let's figure out how to make it mean something.

1:02:44.800 --> 1:02:48.960
<v Speaker 2>And that is the story about how a nonpartisan, politically pluralistic,

1:02:49.040 --> 1:02:53.120
<v Speaker 2>horizontal direct action group has saved millions of lives and

1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:57.440
<v Speaker 2>even continues to do so from actions they took thirty

1:02:57.600 --> 1:03:00.520
<v Speaker 2>forty years ago, and.

1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:04.720
<v Speaker 3>The struggle continues. I mean, this is fucking wild. I mean,

1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:07.520
<v Speaker 3>this is like the kind of militancy that we need

1:03:07.920 --> 1:03:11.320
<v Speaker 3>about everyday human rights and health rights that we don't

1:03:11.520 --> 1:03:14.120
<v Speaker 3>always have and see, and the kind of bravery that

1:03:14.160 --> 1:03:17.800
<v Speaker 3>we need. But like, what I love about this movement

1:03:18.120 --> 1:03:21.280
<v Speaker 3>is also that it kind of laid the groundwork for

1:03:21.360 --> 1:03:23.840
<v Speaker 3>the future, so that yeah, we're still fighting these harm

1:03:23.840 --> 1:03:27.520
<v Speaker 3>reduction fights. We're still fighting for you know, whatever it is,

1:03:27.520 --> 1:03:30.880
<v Speaker 3>safe injection sites and whatnot. We're still fighting I mean

1:03:30.880 --> 1:03:34.240
<v Speaker 3>for equal access to like healthcare or universal care right,

1:03:34.400 --> 1:03:37.400
<v Speaker 3>or the lowering of you know, pharmaceutical prices and all this,

1:03:38.120 --> 1:03:42.800
<v Speaker 3>and for visibility and for human rights, for queer people.

1:03:42.840 --> 1:03:46.280
<v Speaker 3>So it's just I don't know, there's not to again

1:03:46.400 --> 1:03:48.400
<v Speaker 3>go back to the and I know, the like, you know,

1:03:48.440 --> 1:03:51.600
<v Speaker 3>reproductive rights movement was militant at some point, but it

1:03:51.680 --> 1:03:58.040
<v Speaker 3>feels like it hasn't been. Like the act of is

1:03:58.040 --> 1:04:01.200
<v Speaker 3>still radical, Like this is still a rat desire to

1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:05.680
<v Speaker 3>like harm reduction is still radical. And I don't feel

1:04:05.680 --> 1:04:08.760
<v Speaker 3>like every movement that can can say that that is one,

1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:10.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, won these gains over the you know, the

1:04:10.560 --> 1:04:14.840
<v Speaker 3>last few decades. Yeah, one random thing I was watching,

1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:17.760
<v Speaker 3>there's a Netflix stock on Hulu called like the Dark

1:04:17.760 --> 1:04:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Side of Comedy and being a stand up. I was like,

1:04:19.520 --> 1:04:22.600
<v Speaker 3>I gotta watch this. It's actually a it's it's a

1:04:22.640 --> 1:04:24.400
<v Speaker 3>Netflix stock. What did I say? It's a Vice doc

1:04:24.480 --> 1:04:28.680
<v Speaker 3>on Hulu and and like the third episode is about

1:04:28.720 --> 1:04:34.280
<v Speaker 3>Andrew Dice clay right, a massive like homophobic and sexist,

1:04:35.040 --> 1:04:40.000
<v Speaker 3>you know whatever, shock comic, and the gay community was

1:04:40.040 --> 1:04:42.640
<v Speaker 3>trying to protest because he was like invited to host

1:04:42.720 --> 1:04:46.080
<v Speaker 3>on SNL and blah blah blah, which was seen obviously

1:04:46.120 --> 1:04:49.800
<v Speaker 3>as a massive you know, you know, condoning of his

1:04:49.840 --> 1:04:54.480
<v Speaker 3>fucking rhetoric and all this shit. And they basically like no, no, no,

1:04:54.520 --> 1:04:56.800
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't snl. It was he was gonna have this

1:04:56.840 --> 1:05:01.000
<v Speaker 3>whole movie series. And they targeted execu katives in Hollywood

1:05:01.000 --> 1:05:05.240
<v Speaker 3>who they knew were gay and went and plastered posters

1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:10.280
<v Speaker 3>around the town being like you endorse Andrew dised Clay's homophobia,

1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:14.480
<v Speaker 3>Like you endorse like homophobic haate and like their faces

1:05:14.520 --> 1:05:18.200
<v Speaker 3>these random executives, and it fucking worked. It was like,

1:05:18.320 --> 1:05:21.720
<v Speaker 3>oh shit, we like you're making money, You're profiting off

1:05:21.760 --> 1:05:25.080
<v Speaker 3>of this. So in that same I don't know the

1:05:25.160 --> 1:05:28.160
<v Speaker 3>idea of like having a community, I know, the gay

1:05:28.160 --> 1:05:31.040
<v Speaker 3>community not a monolith, the queer community not a monolith,

1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:33.520
<v Speaker 3>but being able to like call out those folks in

1:05:33.640 --> 1:05:37.440
<v Speaker 3>high places, you know, whether it is in yeah, the CDC,

1:05:37.640 --> 1:05:41.080
<v Speaker 3>or in industries or in newspapers and be like even

1:05:41.160 --> 1:05:43.280
<v Speaker 3>outing them, like I know you're gay. Are you literally

1:05:43.320 --> 1:05:44.840
<v Speaker 3>going to make a profit off this? Are you literally

1:05:44.840 --> 1:05:47.560
<v Speaker 3>going to ignore the death in the street. That's just

1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:49.640
<v Speaker 3>such a strategic tactic.

1:05:50.120 --> 1:05:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:05:52.280 --> 1:05:54.720
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, and androdised Clay is these movies didn't get made, but.

1:05:55.640 --> 1:06:00.160
<v Speaker 2>All poor guy, he's a tour and make them of

1:06:00.200 --> 1:06:00.800
<v Speaker 2>money that way.

1:06:02.040 --> 1:06:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, him and Rob Schneider can go co headline the

1:06:06.000 --> 1:06:08.640
<v Speaker 1>shittiest comedians in the country.

1:06:08.320 --> 1:06:11.760
<v Speaker 3>Tour Rob Schneider getting kicked out of some like some

1:06:11.920 --> 1:06:14.240
<v Speaker 3>hospital in Canada, like was like, hey, you want to

1:06:14.280 --> 1:06:15.880
<v Speaker 3>do a fundraiser for us? Like what are you doing?

1:06:16.160 --> 1:06:20.000
<v Speaker 3>What is this a terrible idea? And they like ended

1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:22.200
<v Speaker 3>as set after ten minutes or some shit.

1:06:22.400 --> 1:06:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I saw something that was like, why the fuck are

1:06:24.320 --> 1:06:27.880
<v Speaker 1>people still booking Adam Sandler's eighth closest friend.

1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:33.840
<v Speaker 3>He had a Netflix special, Rob Schneider next Netflix special,

1:06:33.920 --> 1:06:36.120
<v Speaker 3>like a couple of years ago. Like Rob Scheider couldn't

1:06:36.120 --> 1:06:39.000
<v Speaker 3>have got a Netflix special when he was popular, you

1:06:39.000 --> 1:06:41.560
<v Speaker 3>know what I mean? Like, yeah, what are we doing?

1:06:41.680 --> 1:06:45.000
<v Speaker 3>They literally go after boomers who are losing their mind

1:06:45.120 --> 1:06:50.080
<v Speaker 3>about whatever woke? But I fucking love act Up. I

1:06:50.120 --> 1:06:52.920
<v Speaker 3>think it's it's such an incredible model. But for sure,

1:06:54.120 --> 1:06:56.439
<v Speaker 3>the affinity groups, the things that have something to do

1:06:56.560 --> 1:07:02.680
<v Speaker 3>with like your direct life, your livelihood, you can unity that,

1:07:02.720 --> 1:07:04.080
<v Speaker 3>I feel like is the takeaway?

1:07:04.360 --> 1:07:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's so much the set up, the systems for care,

1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:13.520
<v Speaker 2>keep the people engaged, who the people who are engaged,

1:07:13.640 --> 1:07:16.760
<v Speaker 2>make sure that they specifically feel welcome and special for

1:07:16.840 --> 1:07:21.480
<v Speaker 2>being part of your movement. Like there's just so much,

1:07:21.640 --> 1:07:24.480
<v Speaker 2>like the fact that they managed to create this like open, warm,

1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:29.120
<v Speaker 2>inclusive movement of angry people yelling at people, you know,

1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:32.240
<v Speaker 2>without I mean, yes they yelled at each other too,

1:07:32.480 --> 1:07:34.840
<v Speaker 2>but they had like I don't know, And there's so

1:07:34.920 --> 1:07:36.920
<v Speaker 2>much more. A lot of work has been done more

1:07:36.960 --> 1:07:40.200
<v Speaker 2>recently about act Up and there's like all kinds of

1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:42.680
<v Speaker 2>stuff you can look at and different takeaways that people

1:07:43.680 --> 1:07:47.840
<v Speaker 2>have come from it. Have whatever. Have I claim that

1:07:47.880 --> 1:07:49.640
<v Speaker 2>I got a snack between the first half and the

1:07:49.680 --> 1:07:51.560
<v Speaker 2>second half, but the snack is starting to wear out

1:07:51.640 --> 1:07:53.000
<v Speaker 2>and I'm beginning, so.

1:07:53.000 --> 1:07:54.240
<v Speaker 3>We should do plugs.

1:07:54.520 --> 1:07:56.520
<v Speaker 2>It's time for plugs. That's what it is.

1:07:57.240 --> 1:07:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Plug.

1:07:58.040 --> 1:07:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So what do you got?

1:07:59.800 --> 1:08:01.480
<v Speaker 3>Just what do I got? I got a podcast called

1:08:01.520 --> 1:08:04.680
<v Speaker 3>The Bituation Room. It's news comedy. It comes out every

1:08:04.960 --> 1:08:08.440
<v Speaker 3>Wednesday morning and then there's a couple other Wednesday and Friday.

1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:10.680
<v Speaker 3>So listen to that or watch it on YouTube or

1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:14.120
<v Speaker 3>twitch at Franny Feo fr A and i fio, which

1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:15.920
<v Speaker 3>is where you can follow me on all the things.

1:08:16.479 --> 1:08:19.559
<v Speaker 2>So you're saying, if people who listen to my show

1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:21.639
<v Speaker 2>but I only talk about history, want to know about

1:08:21.640 --> 1:08:24.360
<v Speaker 2>what's actually happening, they can go to your show. Is

1:08:24.400 --> 1:08:26.000
<v Speaker 2>that what you're suggesting.

1:08:25.600 --> 1:08:30.080
<v Speaker 3>Totally trying to interesting. I'm here get more news.

1:08:30.960 --> 1:08:35.120
<v Speaker 2>My news that isn't news is because I've told you've

1:08:35.160 --> 1:08:36.519
<v Speaker 2>been telling me about it for a month. Is that

1:08:36.600 --> 1:08:40.120
<v Speaker 2>I am kickstarting my debut novel called The Sapling Cage.

1:08:40.120 --> 1:08:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I've written many novella's and at one being Adventurer of

1:08:42.920 --> 1:08:45.240
<v Speaker 2>your own choosing legally distinct from Chooser and adventure who

1:08:45.240 --> 1:08:47.120
<v Speaker 2>sent me a seasoned assystem at letter At one point

1:08:48.080 --> 1:08:49.720
<v Speaker 2>that was a long time ago. But now I have

1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:51.800
<v Speaker 2>a novel coming out. It's called The Sapling Cage, and

1:08:51.840 --> 1:08:54.000
<v Speaker 2>it is coming out from Feminist Press in September twenty

1:08:54.000 --> 1:08:56.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty four, and it is being kickstarted now. When listen,

1:08:56.320 --> 1:08:58.760
<v Speaker 2>you're listening in the future, in which case I hope

1:08:58.800 --> 1:09:01.400
<v Speaker 2>that everything's okay in the future. Sure, and uh, you

1:09:01.520 --> 1:09:06.639
<v Speaker 2>have enough food and water. That's what I got. See

1:09:06.640 --> 1:09:08.320
<v Speaker 2>you next week.

1:09:12.320 --> 1:09:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1:09:14.840 --> 1:09:17.920
<v Speaker 1>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1:09:18.120 --> 1:09:21.360
<v Speaker 1>visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:24.840
<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1:09:24.840 --> 1:09:26.240
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts.