Speaker 1: Welcome to good Game with Sarah Spain, where we do
Speaker 1: not need another sweatshirt. We do not need another sweat
Speaker 1: clicks by on a fire Phantom Hodee on the Unrivaled site.
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, January twenty second, and on today's show, we'll
Speaker 1: be talking with motorsport pioneer Catherine Legg about how her
Speaker 1: dad helped her realize her need for speed, the win
Speaker 1: win scenario that helped fund her racing career, and how
Speaker 1: her philosophy on women in racing has evolved. Plus, Naomi
Speaker 1: Germa's passport is about to get a whole lot of stamps.
Speaker 1: Belated congrats to a dog and a man who just
Speaker 1: can't get out of women's soccer fast enough. It's all
Speaker 1: coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what
Speaker 1: you need to know today to soccer at the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five NWSL schedule drops today at twelve pm Eastern.
Speaker 1: Your eyes peeled for that on the league's social pages
Speaker 1: and website. Sadly looks like we will not be watching
Speaker 1: US women's national team star Naomi Germa in the NWSL
Speaker 1: though this season. As she's crossing the pond per the athletics.
Speaker 1: Meg Lenahan, Chelsea and the Women's Super League has agreed
Speaker 1: to terms with the NWSL San Diego Wave to pay
Speaker 1: a record one point one million dollar transfer fee for
Speaker 1: the defender, though Lenahan sources said the negotiation process has
Speaker 1: not been one hundred percent finalized. If it is, Germa
Speaker 1: will become the first women's soccer player to earn a
Speaker 1: transfer fee worth more than one million dollars. Will keep
Speaker 1: you posted as more details emerge. Happy for Germa, bummed
Speaker 1: for me, y'all. I do not have the bandwidth to
Speaker 1: start paying attention to all the soccer teams across the
Speaker 1: pond too. I need them to stay in the NWSL
Speaker 1: selfish reasons. More soccer news. BFC defender Jen Beattie has
Speaker 1: announced her retirement from professional football. Beattie turned pro at
Speaker 1: just fifteen years old, and her eighteen year career included
Speaker 1: multiple stops across the Pond, including helping Arsenal to four
Speaker 1: FA women Super League titles, two FA Cups and the
Speaker 1: Women's League Cup in twenty twelve. The Scotland native's career
Speaker 1: also included one hundred and forty two caps and twenty
Speaker 1: four goals for her national team. She retired from international
Speaker 1: competition in twenty twenty three. In her one and only
Speaker 1: ONWSL season, Beatty, a breast cancer survivor, was named the
Speaker 1: winner of the twenty twenty four Lauren Holiday Impact Award,
Speaker 1: honoring her work in the community supporting and promoting breast
Speaker 1: cancer awareness and patient support. In a statement released by AFC,
Speaker 1: Beatty set of her retirement quote, I'm very, very grateful
Speaker 1: for everything I've been able to do through football. When
Speaker 1: I look back at my career, my favorite thing of
Speaker 1: all is how fun it was. I've loved every second
Speaker 1: of it, even all the hard stuff. I would do
Speaker 1: it all again, all the injuries, the day to day,
Speaker 1: the big games. I feel so lucky to have made
Speaker 1: friends for life off the back of it as well.
Speaker 1: I've met really good people and worked with great coaches
Speaker 1: and awesome clubs. End quote. One of those great people
Speaker 1: met through footy. Based on what we last heard, and
Speaker 1: by that, what we last peeped on social media is
Speaker 1: wo so legend Ali Krieger, who's dating beat there's your
Speaker 1: footy and gaishit update of the day. We've been really
Speaker 1: bad about giving y'all all the goss lately, so We'll
Speaker 1: get back to that soon. In WNBA news, Britney Griner
Speaker 1: and the Phoenix Mercury have been basically synonymous since the
Speaker 1: six foot nine center was drafted to the team in
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, but Griner may be headed elsewhere. On Tuesday,
Speaker 1: the first day of WNBA free agency talks, Grinder's agent
Speaker 1: told the Associated Press that the three time Olympic gold
Speaker 1: medalist is taking meetings with multiple teams and testing the market.
Speaker 1: We'll keep you posted on that. Also in WNBA free agency,
Speaker 1: the Chicago's Guide declined to give guard Kennedy Carter a
Speaker 1: qualifying offer, making her an unrestricted free agent now, multiple
Speaker 1: sources told friend at the Show, Andy Costable at the
Speaker 1: Chicago Sun Times, the decision was tied to other players
Speaker 1: dissatisfaction with the dynamic created in the locker room last
Speaker 1: year due to Carter's behavior, which allegedly went unchecked by
Speaker 1: former coach Teresa Witherspoon. Now, there was an overall concern
Speaker 1: within the team that re signing Carter would negatively impact
Speaker 1: chances of landing other free agents. Weatherspoon was fired back
Speaker 1: in September after her first season, and former Las Vegas
Speaker 1: Aces assistant coach Tyler Marsh was named the Sky's new
Speaker 1: head coach. Sky general manager Jeff Paglioca gave The Sun
Speaker 1: Times a statement on the decision, saying, Carter is quote
Speaker 1: extremely talented and as a player that can impact the
Speaker 1: game at the highest level in our league. We absolutely
Speaker 1: appreciate all she did for our team last year. However,
Speaker 1: we've made changes to our staff and we'll make changes
Speaker 1: to our roster. Those changes impact Kennedy's fit on the team,
Speaker 1: so we wanted to give her the best opportunity as
Speaker 1: a free agent end quote. Carter led the Sky in
Speaker 1: scoring this past season, averaging seventeen and a half points
Speaker 1: per game. Drafted fourth overall by the Dream in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: she earned a spot on the twenty twenty All Rookie team,
Speaker 1: but she was suspended in her second season with the
Speaker 1: Dream for quote conduct detrimental to the team. She was
Speaker 1: then traded to Los Angeles Sparks. She played there in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, was waived in twenty twenty three, and
Speaker 1: joined the Sky on a training camp contract in February
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four. She's now free to explore her
Speaker 1: options around the league and the window to sign a
Speaker 1: new contract opens on February first. We were just talking
Speaker 1: in yesterday's show about Carter going off overseas. Obviously a
Speaker 1: ton of talent, there can't she pair that with the
Speaker 1: attitude and the behavior to stick on a team for
Speaker 1: a long time That is yet to be seen. More
Speaker 1: hoops news. A belated congratulations to Las Vegas Aces guard
Speaker 1: Kelsey Plumb, whose number ten jersey was retired at the
Speaker 1: University of Washington over the weekend. She's the school's first
Speaker 1: women's basketball player to have her jersey retired and the
Speaker 1: sixth Husky all time. The ceremony took place in front
Speaker 1: of a historic sellout crowd at Alaska Airlines Arena, who
Speaker 1: got to both celebrate Plum and watch u dub knockoff
Speaker 1: Perdue eighty seven to fifty eight. Plum's outstanding career at
Speaker 1: Washington included setting the program single season scoring record as
Speaker 1: a freshman and then breaking that record in each of
Speaker 1: the next three seasons. She surpassed Jackie Styles's career scoring
Speaker 1: record with a fifty seven point performance against Utah her
Speaker 1: senior year, an effort that still stands as the UW
Speaker 1: single game points record. Plumb finished her career at Washington
Speaker 1: with three thoy five hundred and twenty seven total points,
Speaker 1: scoring eleven hundred and nine in her senior season. Both
Speaker 1: those marks were NCAA records until Kitlin Clark broke them
Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty three to twenty four season. Plum
Speaker 1: was drafted first overall by the Aces in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: She's won two WNBA championships with them, as well as
Speaker 1: two Olympic gold medals with Team USA. Congrats to a
Speaker 1: dog in pro Vibes News. League one Volleyball hits the
Speaker 1: court tonight with Love Houston facing Love Salt Lake at
Speaker 1: Brewin Arena in Utah, starting at nine pm Eastern. You
Speaker 1: can stream that one for free on love dot Com
Speaker 1: by creating an account. We'll throw the link in our
Speaker 1: show notes. In College Hoops News, there's a top twenty
Speaker 1: five matchup tonight between number twenty three Minnesota and number
Speaker 1: twenty four Michigan. They tip off at eight pm Eastern
Speaker 1: on Big ten Plus. There are five other ranked teams
Speaker 1: in action tonight too. We'll link to the full college
Speaker 1: basketball schedule in our show notes. To hockey, we've got
Speaker 1: some PWHL action tonight it's the Toronto Scepters at the
Speaker 1: Boston Fleet, a seven pm Eastern puck drop in Lowell, mass.
Speaker 1: This one's a battle of the bottom, as the two
Speaker 1: teams sitting in fifth and sixth in the sixth team
Speaker 1: league duel it out. You can catch that streaming on
Speaker 1: the league's YouTube channel and at the PWHL dot com.
Speaker 1: Some more PWHL news, the league and play Hockey have
Speaker 1: announced a multi year partnership, coming together to launch a
Speaker 1: new girls hockey tournament called the EWHL Breakthrough Cup. It'll
Speaker 1: take place April fourth through sixth this year in Blaine, Minnesota,
Speaker 1: and include teams of all ages and skill levels. The
Speaker 1: PWHL and play Hockey will also hold a series of
Speaker 1: events aimed at fan development and aimed at growing girls
Speaker 1: youth hockey, building on the league's existing efforts. We'll link
Speaker 1: to the full release about the partnership in our show notes. Finally,
Speaker 1: in tennis, Spain's Paula Bodoso will face Arena Sablenka in
Speaker 1: the semi finals with the Australian Open. After Bodosa knocked
Speaker 1: off American star Coco Goff in straight sets. Goff made
Speaker 1: it one round further than she did in the last
Speaker 1: two Grand Slams, but she had even higher expectations for
Speaker 1: this tournament, having put up a twenty two to two
Speaker 1: records since the US Open. We got to take a
Speaker 1: quick break. When we come back, We're going full throttle
Speaker 1: with Catherine Legg. Stay tuned joining us now. She's a
Speaker 1: trailblazing British racing driver, renowned for breaking boundaries and setting
Speaker 1: records in motorsports. The fastest female qualifier in the history
Speaker 1: of the Indy five hundred, the first woman to win
Speaker 1: a major open wheel race in North America, and the
Speaker 1: first woman inducted into the Long Beach Motorsports Walk of Fame.
Speaker 1: Her career spans various racing disciplines including indiecars, sports cars, NASCAR,
Speaker 1: and international endurance racing. Her new podcast, Throttle Therapy with
Speaker 1: Catherine Legg, will bring you inside stories with legends of
Speaker 1: auto racing and new faces from the next generation, plus
Speaker 1: conversations with the people who have supported her throughout her career.
Speaker 1: She's been in America for years, but she still loves
Speaker 1: her tea and biscuits. It's Katherine Legg. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: Katherine, thanks for having me on. I actually have a
Speaker 2: cup of tea as we speak.
Speaker 1: Not surprising you. You can't leave it behind. Did you
Speaker 1: take offense during ted Lasso when he had a variety
Speaker 1: of different derogatory terms for tea?
Speaker 3: Now, I thought it was quite amusing.
Speaker 2: Actually, honestly, I started watching ted Lassa and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is rubbish, Like I am not watching, this is awful.
Speaker 2: And then by the end of the first episode, I
Speaker 2: was like, this is the best show ever.
Speaker 1: Yep. I saw the previous and I was like, what
Speaker 1: is this And then I was like, okay, I'm in.
Speaker 1: I even have a mug that says hot brown water
Speaker 1: from ted Lasso. So I want to start with how
Speaker 1: your love of racing began. Take us back to Surrey,
Speaker 1: take us back to England, wherever the need for speed
Speaker 1: first hit you.
Speaker 2: Oh, craky, that's a long time ago now unfortunately giving
Speaker 2: away my age. So I started racing go karts back
Speaker 2: in England. As you can tell, I'm not from Alabama,
Speaker 2: probably by the accent, and it was really just a
Speaker 2: hobby that my dad and I had. So when I
Speaker 2: was a kid, I have a sister and she was
Speaker 2: very close to my mom, and I was really close
Speaker 2: to my dad and I still am to this day,
Speaker 2: and so I wanted to be like daddy's little girl
Speaker 2: and do everything that he did. So if he drank
Speaker 2: tea and he liked tea, I liked tea right. And
Speaker 2: so we went on a family holiday vacation to Spain
Speaker 2: and my dad and my uncle had to go on
Speaker 2: the go karts there and I was too small short
Speaker 2: whatever it is, you know, like you have to match
Speaker 2: up to that height thing like to go on the ride.
Speaker 2: So this was the same thing with the gokuts. So
Speaker 2: I was too short and I was a bit stroppy
Speaker 2: about that. And we got back to England and my
Speaker 2: dad saw an advert in our local paper for our
Speaker 2: local go cut place, and so he thought he'd bring
Speaker 2: me along. And he was actually the first one to
Speaker 2: get a cart, but I would tag along and pretend
Speaker 2: to be his little nine year old mechanic, and in
Speaker 2: the end I nagged him so much that he bought
Speaker 2: me a cart for Christmas that year when I was nine,
Speaker 2: and literally we did like three races together and then
Speaker 2: he was like, okay, she's already faster than me.
Speaker 1: Wow, So okay, so I'm thinking local go carts like
Speaker 1: I used to do as a kid where you just
Speaker 1: pay and you get X amount of time and you
Speaker 1: go out there with your friends and you mess around.
Speaker 1: But he bought you a cart that allowed you to
Speaker 1: enter like local little races. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So in England, and I think for most of Europe actually,
Speaker 2: there's like two types of go kart racing. There's the
Speaker 2: type of go curt racing that you're talking about, where
Speaker 2: you turn up at like Andretti's speed Sport and you
Speaker 2: go and buy ten minutes and raise all the other
Speaker 2: little kids, or if you like me, you turn up
Speaker 2: and try and work before with them. And they said, anyway,
Speaker 2: but there's two kinds. There was like to bring your
Speaker 2: own cart kind and then there was like the indoor kind,
Speaker 2: so we went to the outdoor kind, which we want
Speaker 2: to bring your own cart kind.
Speaker 1: Cool. So it sounds like your dad was supportive of
Speaker 1: your instant love of this. Did you get in general
Speaker 1: support for your interest in your pursuit of racing or
Speaker 1: was there some discouragement along the way.
Speaker 3: I would say both.
Speaker 2: Great question, because even within my own family both to
Speaker 2: a certain extent, like my mom still to this day
Speaker 2: hates my racing.
Speaker 3: Right, It's not that she doesn't support it.
Speaker 1: She just hates it.
Speaker 3: She gets nervous. She says, yeah, it's dirty.
Speaker 2: It's dangerous, it's smelly, it's noisy, Like, why on earth
Speaker 2: would you want to do it?
Speaker 3: She just doesn't get it on any level. Right, So,
Speaker 3: and also I was there was one other girl.
Speaker 2: So I remember nine year old Catherine looking at this girl.
Speaker 2: I remember her name, her name is Whez, and she
Speaker 2: was racing. I was like, oh, my goodness, I want
Speaker 2: to be like her. She's awesome. You know, I really
Speaker 2: do think there's something behind there. You have to see
Speaker 2: it to believe it, because if I've just in all
Speaker 2: the little boys don't it, I don't think I would
Speaker 2: have thought that it was even accessible to me, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh, completely agree. I mean I look around at the
Speaker 1: landscape now for girls and women in sports, and I
Speaker 1: think about just how much bigger I would have dreamed,
Speaker 1: how many things I would have tried instead of just
Speaker 1: being like, oh, well, they don't offer it for girls,
Speaker 1: so I guess I'm just not meant to do it,
Speaker 1: which is not my personality at all. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: an intentional like oh I'm let down by that. It
Speaker 1: just didn't occur to me. I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: guess we don't do that then, and now I look
Speaker 1: around and I'm like, man, the possibilities are endless. So
Speaker 1: my producers have put in a follow up that you know,
Speaker 1: we have a rule here called no dumb questions, and
Speaker 1: this could be done. But just take let us sound easy.
Speaker 1: If it is BRIT's drive on the opposite side of
Speaker 1: the road for the US, so the do the laps
Speaker 1: go clockwise instead of counterclockwise and your races out there?
Speaker 3: Okay, I need to know who asked that question.
Speaker 1: Their names are Alex and Misha.
Speaker 2: Got it, got it right, Alex Amisha, I think you
Speaker 2: failed the quest. Definitely, definitely a random question. No, we
Speaker 2: all drive the same way. Actually it's not. It's not
Speaker 2: a dumb question because there are many different kinds of
Speaker 2: cars that we race, so we race are running through
Speaker 2: all them. There's like Open Wheel, which is Formula one,
Speaker 2: and IndyCar type races which are predominantly on street, street
Speaker 2: and road courses, but we do some ovals like the
Speaker 2: Indy five hundred. Obviously you've got stock cars, which you
Speaker 2: guys would know as NASCAR, and anything that drives on
Speaker 2: either dirt or pavement in circles predominantly, but do some
Speaker 2: road and street courses, so kind of flip flop with
Speaker 2: that one.
Speaker 3: And they are the.
Speaker 2: Cars that you see, like the Chevies and stuff that
Speaker 2: you see in the NASCAR races that you can relate
Speaker 2: to what their body shape looks like on the road.
Speaker 3: And then the.
Speaker 2: Category if you like a sports car racing and sports
Speaker 2: car racing comprises of GT cars, which is like the
Speaker 2: fancy cars you see on the road, you know, Ferrari's Porsches, Mercedus,
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. And also prototypes, which are kind
Speaker 2: of like open wheel cars but bigger and what manufacturers
Speaker 2: use to test parts and bits and pieces to make
Speaker 2: the road cars better. And they're called the prototype cars.
Speaker 2: So the GT cars and the prototype cars and everything,
Speaker 2: they actually no matter where you are in the world,
Speaker 2: they have the I think all but one manufacturer of
Speaker 2: those has the driver's seat in the left side, which
Speaker 2: is the same as the American side, because I think
Speaker 2: that's where they do. I think most of the world
Speaker 2: drives on that side. I think we and maybe Australia
Speaker 2: are the only anomalies.
Speaker 1: Ireland, Ireland, yeah, Ireland, New Zealand, Yeah, yeah, Ireland does too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, because that's not part of us anymore
Speaker 2: apart from on the maland yeah.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I've never thought about this before. I'm not
Speaker 1: a huge racing person, but open wheel is like you
Speaker 1: can kind of understand it because literally, the wheels are
Speaker 1: like if you look at the car, they're sitting outside
Speaker 1: of the car kind of, whereas like a NASCAR car
Speaker 1: looks more like a normal car and it's sitting in
Speaker 1: like in the base of the car, the main structure
Speaker 1: with the Okay, I've never really put those two together
Speaker 1: when I've heard about open wheel racing. Okay, you've done
Speaker 1: pretty much all of it. Have you ever thought about
Speaker 1: I want to focus on one type of racing and
Speaker 1: give all your attention and efforts into that discipline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I did for the most of my career. Actually,
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a Formula One driver ever since
Speaker 2: I was nine years old.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 2: Again, going back to the first point, which I feel
Speaker 2: very much the same as you, like, it wasn't that
Speaker 2: I consciously thought that anything was closed off. I just
Speaker 2: didn't see it as an opportunity. So it wasn't it
Speaker 2: just wasn't there. So even though I wanted to be
Speaker 2: an F one driver, I never really thought I'm gonna
Speaker 2: try and be an F one driver because I can
Speaker 2: see it because there was no females and Formula one.
Speaker 2: There weren't no girls in it, and so it just
Speaker 2: wasn't really an option. So I just kind of kept
Speaker 2: plotting in that direction, and I wanted to do that.
Speaker 2: I came over here because in two thousand and five
Speaker 2: to get the first opportunity that I really had, because
Speaker 2: I'm not from a wealthy family. Until race cars, you
Speaker 2: need money, and that's either in the form of sponsors,
Speaker 2: or you get backed by a manufacturer, or you have
Speaker 2: wealthy parents. Most people have wealthy parents that do racing, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you trying to get to Formula one
Speaker 2: these days, and you're going through the lower formula and you're.
Speaker 3: Making your way up the ladder we call it.
Speaker 2: You start off in the smaller, underpowered cars and you
Speaker 2: learn how to drive those, and then you get a
Speaker 2: bit more power and a bit more grip and you
Speaker 2: work your way out and to get if you won
Speaker 2: every series on the way to Formula One, it would
Speaker 2: still cost you probably twenty million dollars.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's kind of cost prohibitive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's kind of like it's like on par
Speaker 1: with Hollywood for like Nepo babies. That's how you know
Speaker 1: all the names in racing because it's somebody's sons and
Speaker 1: then somebody's son's son son son. Okay, wait, let's talk
Speaker 1: about that. So you start out with the with the
Speaker 1: go karts, and you get this love of racing at
Speaker 1: age nine, and even though you don't really see a
Speaker 1: model of what you could be, you just keep at
Speaker 1: it because it's something that you love doing and it's
Speaker 1: something that you're passionate about. What were you racing when
Speaker 1: you made that move to two thousand and four, because
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that story of walking into an office
Speaker 1: and literally like cold pitching someone on believing in you.
Speaker 1: But what had you done up until that point when
Speaker 1: you decided to make the move to the US.
Speaker 2: So I was fortunate enough that my dad could have
Speaker 2: fund me through go karts, right, So he actually gave
Speaker 2: up smoking. So he was smoking like two or three
Speaker 2: packets a day, and he thought, Okay, if I give
Speaker 2: up smoking, that's enough money to buy Catherine and you say,
Speaker 2: have tires on a weekend win win. How cool is that? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's lovely. So he got me through go karts
Speaker 2: and then I won a scholarship. I took quite in
Speaker 2: a competition and I the fastest, and I want a
Speaker 2: scholarship to do like some Formula Forward, which is entry
Speaker 2: level car racing, and I wanted more. And I spent
Speaker 2: literally every evening because I was working during the day,
Speaker 2: I spent every evening writing sponsorship proposals and sending them
Speaker 2: out via email and snail mail and like printing off
Speaker 2: my racing CV or resume.
Speaker 1: And this is early twenties.
Speaker 2: Early twenties, Yeah, early twenties, out of go karts, trying
Speaker 2: to be a race car driver. And then you can,
Speaker 2: even though you've got a Formula one dream, like that's
Speaker 2: the tippy top of the mountain, right, there are other
Speaker 2: races that you can do. Even in Europe. We don't
Speaker 2: have NASCAR and stock cars in Europe. We have Formula
Speaker 2: one and we have sports cars. Stock cars is a
Speaker 2: very American thing, so that wasn't really part of my
Speaker 2: thinking back then, but sports cars was. And in sportscar
Speaker 2: racing there are a lot more drivers because you have
Speaker 2: a team of up to four drivers in one car
Speaker 2: and you switch out because you're doing like the twenty
Speaker 2: four Hours of lamon on Daytona twenty four And I thought, okay,
Speaker 2: if I aim for the Stars and I aim for
Speaker 2: Formula One and I come short, then I'll end up
Speaker 2: in sports cars and I'll make a.
Speaker 3: Career doing that.
Speaker 2: But I was always a big proponent of get comfortable
Speaker 2: being uncomfortable, and so as you alluded to, I did
Speaker 2: go and sit in an office. So Kevin Calcoven his
Speaker 2: name was, and he is the reason I am talking
Speaker 2: to you today.
Speaker 3: He was the owner and chief of the IndyCar series.
Speaker 2: Let's call it the IndyCar Series because back then it
Speaker 2: was actually called Champcar, but I'm going to confuse the situation,
Speaker 2: so we'll call it in. And he was over in
Speaker 2: England and he was buying Cosworth from Ford.
Speaker 1: Carsworth is another major car.
Speaker 3: Kind of sorta nearly good guess, good guess.
Speaker 2: It is like the Performance brand or was the Formance
Speaker 2: brown Okay, so you know how like Toyota has Alexus
Speaker 2: and Honda has HPD and et cetera, et cetera, so
Speaker 2: Couswork has the Ford Performance brand. So he was buying
Speaker 2: that off of Ford because they make engines and they
Speaker 2: do like boat stuff and a whole bunch of stuff.
Speaker 3: That I don't really understand.
Speaker 2: And I wanted the opportunity to come a race in
Speaker 2: America because I'd seen one of my peers do the
Speaker 2: same thing and make a success, and I thought, America
Speaker 2: is the land of opportunity, and it's going to be
Speaker 2: like way better for women to get along in a
Speaker 2: male dominated sport, which is actually true. And so I
Speaker 2: turned up. I borrowed a suit, like, not a racing suit,
Speaker 2: like a business suit. I never never wore a business
Speaker 2: suit before, CV in hand, resume in hand, and I
Speaker 2: drove my little Voux Hall Novo, which none of you
Speaker 2: will know what that is, but it's a tiny little
Speaker 2: hatchback that does about twelve miles an hour.
Speaker 3: And I turned up at the.
Speaker 2: Office and this guy's a multi billionaire, right and he's
Speaker 2: sold and run multiple successful businesses. And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go home and turn up and
Speaker 2: see him. So I go to reception and she's like,
Speaker 2: are you crazy? What's going on now? You can't see Kevin.
Speaker 2: He's in the middle of doing a big multimillion dollar
Speaker 2: deal to buy cousewere but his girlfriend at the time
Speaker 2: and then wife after that, and his daughter were there
Speaker 2: and they saw me and they were like, who is
Speaker 2: this crazy English lady who's sat in the reception And
Speaker 2: they came and spoke to me and said, Okay, Kevin,
Speaker 2: I think she's got something special. You should speak to her.
Speaker 2: And so I explained who I was. I like sweating,
Speaker 2: rite nervous, and I explained to him who I was
Speaker 2: and what I wanted to do and why I wanted
Speaker 2: to be in his series and championships so badly and
Speaker 2: how I would do him proud on all of this.
Speaker 2: And it was honestly the most nerve wracking experience of
Speaker 2: my life. I'm getting sweaty just thinking about it. And
Speaker 2: I left. I call my dad because back in those
Speaker 2: days you could use your mobile phone in the car
Speaker 2: when you were driving.
Speaker 3: And I called him and I was crying and they
Speaker 3: he didn't like me. This is so bad.
Speaker 2: But literally four days later, Kirsty and Kim is girl
Speaker 2: power right, they had my back and they said that
Speaker 2: he should give me a test. So I got a
Speaker 2: call four days later from a team saying, hey, can
Speaker 2: you fly to Phoenix because we want to test you.
Speaker 1: And you said, no, I don't have any money.
Speaker 3: I said, Daddy, can I borrow some money? Any like
Speaker 3: four hundred pounds? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I did the testing in Phoenix and the team
Speaker 2: gave me a glowing report back to Kevin, and Kevin said, okay,
Speaker 2: young lady, and here's typical way of doing things. He said,
Speaker 2: we'll give you the first six races of the championship.
Speaker 2: And this championship was like one level down from IndyCar, right,
Speaker 2: so it's one step to IndyCar. I'd never driven anything
Speaker 2: that big and powerful before. I'd never done a full
Speaker 2: season of racing anything car wise before, so it.
Speaker 3: Was a big deal.
Speaker 2: And I turn up I've never driven on a street
Speaker 2: course before and Long Beach, California. So I go out
Speaker 2: and qualifying for my first ever race, I stick it
Speaker 2: in the wall and crashed into the wall. Not badly
Speaker 2: but they could repair the car, but bad enough that
Speaker 2: I finished like last and I had to start the
Speaker 2: race from there. And then I made my way through
Speaker 2: the entire field and like everybody saw what they were
Speaker 2: doing and was like they were crowding the track and
Speaker 2: they were all looking at it and I was going
Speaker 2: like making up spots and I actually won the race
Speaker 2: it and it got California's biggest sporting moment or something
Speaker 2: that year in two thousand and five, that was how
Speaker 2: long ago it was. But that's kind of what put
Speaker 2: my career on the map.
Speaker 1: Beginner's luck. You think, were you not overthinking it because
Speaker 1: it was your first time you'd never done it?
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think it was because I thought it would
Speaker 2: be easier in America than it was in Europe. And
Speaker 2: I just came over and I was so arrogant and
Speaker 2: confident and I was like, Yeah, I'm going to kick
Speaker 2: everybody's butt that I didn't think think that the alternative
Speaker 2: was a plausibility.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you got used to it and you
Speaker 1: were like, oh it's hard over here, it's hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that'll happen. Okay. So you start your career in this
Speaker 1: incredible way, which reminds me of a story from this amazing,
Speaker 1: super successful executive, Sarah rob o'hagen that I interviewed years ago,
Speaker 1: and she wanted so badly to work for Virgin that
Speaker 1: she went on a networking cruise and stalked a Virgin
Speaker 1: executive and literally would not stop bugging him until she
Speaker 1: got a job. Flew all the way from New Zealand
Speaker 1: to New York, and the day she arrived, they had
Speaker 1: let go of the executive who hired her, and no
Speaker 1: one there even knew she'd been hired. So she shows
Speaker 1: up for her first day in a new country and
Speaker 1: they don't have a record that she's supposed to be
Speaker 1: working there. She put together this giant plan, put it
Speaker 1: under the door of the exec and said, like, this
Speaker 1: is why you should keep me around, even though you
Speaker 1: didn't even know I was hired. When I hear those stories,
Speaker 1: when I hear your story of walking into the office
Speaker 1: and demanding a chance, I just think about how often
Speaker 1: we let the fear of failure get in the way
Speaker 1: of even trying, and like, just what's the worst that
Speaker 1: can happen? I could have said, I don't know who
Speaker 1: you are, I'm not meeting with you. Okay, you try
Speaker 1: something else, But instead you get this opportunity to make
Speaker 1: the most of it. So cool, Okay, I want to
Speaker 1: fast forward a while because last year you actually raised
Speaker 1: the NDY five hundred with ELF as your main sponsor,
Speaker 1: and a couple months ago we talked to ELF CMO
Speaker 1: Corey Marchisoto about that event and how wild people went
Speaker 1: for the ELF activation. Women so used to not being
Speaker 1: catered to, not being served at these events, and I
Speaker 1: imagine you get a lot of girls and women reaching
Speaker 1: out to you, not just for advice, but just wanting
Speaker 1: to talk shop. How do you handle the joy of
Speaker 1: that and also the pressure of that sort of responsibility.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's such a multifaceted answer, Like the ELF
Speaker 2: partnership has been so wonderful on so many different levels.
Speaker 2: And then it open I opened my eyes to something
Speaker 2: that I didn't even know existed, right, because I went
Speaker 2: through my entire career going I'm not any different to
Speaker 2: the boys. I just want to be taken seriously, like,
Speaker 2: just treat me as another race card driver. And then
Speaker 2: this big splashy partnership and activation that they did at
Speaker 2: Indy showcased how much we were not.
Speaker 3: Being catered to.
Speaker 2: Like there it's a growing demographic in racing. I mean,
Speaker 2: there are women running countries and companies and everything now right, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know they're allowed in the pit lane now.
Speaker 3: They didn't.
Speaker 2: They weren't twenty years ago. And I guess I had
Speaker 2: been so in it, like deep buried in it that
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen it from the bigger picture, and Elf did.
Speaker 2: And so when they went there, all of these women,
Speaker 2: I just started noticing how many women there were there,
Speaker 2: and how they now had somebody that they could cheer
Speaker 2: for with a product that was being on the car
Speaker 2: and advertised to them in a way that they could
Speaker 2: relate to, you know, like most women wear some kind
Speaker 2: of makeup in some way, shape or form, or do
Speaker 2: skincare or something, and we made the car pink. And
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that might be a little bit
Speaker 2: too cliche, but it wasn't because they all the kids
Speaker 2: they were like the pink car, and it was just
Speaker 2: it was like this girl power movement and it was magical. Honestly,
Speaker 2: it was like the whole place loved it. But then
Speaker 2: because the women loved it, the men loved it, and
Speaker 2: because the women wanted to be there and they were
Speaker 2: interested in racing and they were interested how the pink
Speaker 2: car and the ELF car did. The guys loved that
Speaker 2: they were allowed to have this passion and they could
Speaker 2: share it with their daughters or their wives or whoever
Speaker 2: it was. And so it opened everybody's eyes. I mean
Speaker 2: this series. The manufacturers ELF was shocked by it. I
Speaker 2: was shot by like literally everybody it was this. It
Speaker 2: was an enormous deal. It's won a lot of awards
Speaker 2: actually since, and I know they're very forward thinking, progressive company,
Speaker 2: and they've done lots of cool things, but I think
Speaker 2: this definitely has to be amongst the coolest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much in what you just said, thinking
Speaker 1: about having worked in sports for the last like twenty
Speaker 1: years and pushing so much for women's sports to be
Speaker 1: a part of everyday conversation. The change from what it
Speaker 1: used to be, which was we're just one of the guys,
Speaker 1: We're the same, just let us in now saying like
Speaker 1: we can lean into the differences with intention and understand
Speaker 1: the power in that. You've talked about not wanting to
Speaker 1: emphasize your gender in the past, but you feel differently now.
Speaker 1: What changed for you about being able to say I
Speaker 1: can succeed in a male dominated space and not have
Speaker 1: to erase my gender, but instead can lean in and
Speaker 1: talk about it.
Speaker 2: I think that times are changing as well, which is important.
Speaker 2: So twenty years ago, when I was breaking into racing,
Speaker 2: I wanted to not stand out right it was still
Speaker 2: very much a gimmick and a novelty, and people were like, oh,
Speaker 2: what if she crashes and she hurts herself, And so
Speaker 2: it was just inaccessible to women. And there were a
Speaker 2: few of us that broke through it, you know, Dianikha
Speaker 2: and I and a couple of others, but we were
Speaker 2: very much trying to be taken seriously for our driving,
Speaker 2: not for what you know, for standing out and being different.
Speaker 2: But now I think it's seen as okay to be feminine.
Speaker 2: I mean as a woman in racing, and as a
Speaker 2: woman in probably more than just racing, probably all sports,
Speaker 2: although I can't speak to that.
Speaker 3: You'll be better better often in that.
Speaker 2: I think you walk a tightrope because you want to
Speaker 2: be seen as feminine and attractive because you're a woman,
Speaker 2: and what woman doesn't. But you also want to be
Speaker 2: taken seriously and thought of as a badass, and these
Speaker 2: days you can be both. Back back then, I think
Speaker 2: you had to pick your poison right well.
Speaker 1: And I remember with Danika there was so much talking
Speaker 1: out of both sides of mouths about how you get
Speaker 1: a spot, get a sponsor, get an opportunity, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: if your dad's dad's dad has been in it. We
Speaker 1: don't care. But if you got it because you're a woman,
Speaker 1: and the brand knows you're going to bring a lot
Speaker 1: of attention and interest and coverage to it, then that's bad, right.
Speaker 1: There were such double standards understanding that in racing, you
Speaker 1: do you need people to take a chance on you.
Speaker 1: You do need better factors and sponsors and teams, and
Speaker 1: so the idea of like, well, I don't want to
Speaker 1: make it about being a woman, while also simultaneously understanding
Speaker 1: that there are barriers to women participating and that's part
Speaker 1: of your story is really difficult. Can you tell us
Speaker 1: what you think are some of the biggest things that
Speaker 1: get in the way of more women getting into racing sports.
Speaker 2: I think that it happens when they're young. I think
Speaker 2: you have to start racing when you're young and you've
Speaker 2: still got sticky brain, and you know, when you do
Speaker 2: sports when you're young, you just figure it out right.
Speaker 1: And you like are fearless about how many bones you
Speaker 1: could be breaking and all the things that could go wrong.
Speaker 3: Yes, one per one hundred percent failss.
Speaker 2: I think that if you learn as an adult, it
Speaker 2: would be very much more difficult, and I think you
Speaker 2: wouldn't have that, I don't know, subconscious skill set. You'd
Speaker 2: have to think about it more consciously. So I think
Speaker 2: it happens in the teenage years, and I think it
Speaker 2: happens like with Goka. So now there's a lot more
Speaker 2: girls who want to go go carting and they want
Speaker 2: to make their way up the ladder. But if you
Speaker 2: think of it as a pyramid, and there are literally
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of guys across the world who want
Speaker 2: to make it to the pinnacle of this pyramid, being
Speaker 2: NASCAR Cup or a Formula one or Indica, right, pretty
Speaker 2: much there is probably only like ten thousand women. So
Speaker 2: the chances of one of those making it out of
Speaker 2: you know, the hundreds of thousands of guys wanting to
Speaker 2: do it, is a lot slimmer.
Speaker 3: But there are more doing it now.
Speaker 2: The problem is they get to fourteen, fifteen, sixteen seventeen,
Speaker 2: and they're racing against the guys and you're bullied and
Speaker 2: made fun of and you're made to feel like an outcast,
Speaker 2: and to be honest, like these days it's easier, but
Speaker 2: back in those days it was more the adults. It
Speaker 2: was more the parents that were like you got beaten
Speaker 2: by a girl, like it was slanderous, like you were
Speaker 2: a failure as a son. And so now I don't
Speaker 2: think there is that, but it's still it's that you
Speaker 2: start to realize that gender is a different around that age,
Speaker 2: and you start to see boys like ooh, I fancy.
Speaker 3: Him or I want to date him, and then there's.
Speaker 2: Like this whole confusion, and so a lot of women
Speaker 2: drop out at that age because of all of those things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I will admit that there were
Speaker 1: times in my career when I was the only woman
Speaker 1: in the room and I would have advocated for more women,
Speaker 1: But there was also a part of me that was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm special, I'm the one who made it right, because
Speaker 1: that's what they teach us. There's only room for one
Speaker 1: at the table, and if you're the one, then you're
Speaker 1: special and maybe you're just better, instead of realizing that
Speaker 1: that's actually a tool of the patriarchy to keep women
Speaker 1: and minority folks down, is to make it feel like
Speaker 1: there's only enough space for one or two and that
Speaker 1: you're the special one and really discourage you from reaching
Speaker 1: a hand down and encouraging others to come up with you.
Speaker 1: That's changing a lot of late. But I wonder if
Speaker 1: you look back honestly, at any point in your career,
Speaker 1: did you feel special in the sense of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this scarcity makes me stand out? Because I do think
Speaker 1: when you talk about the only woman or the first
Speaker 1: woman a lot, it's both a positive in that you've
Speaker 1: opened a door, but it also sort of celebrates scarcity
Speaker 1: in a way that might discourage other women because they hear, oh,
Speaker 1: there's only been one.
Speaker 2: Oh that's not for me, then one hundred percent, And
Speaker 2: I think that's more a marketing and a.
Speaker 3: Pr thing than a me thing.
Speaker 2: And actually, the more I've matured, the more I've come
Speaker 2: around to your way of thinking, Whereas I was very
Speaker 2: much similar when I was younger, because I experienced it
Speaker 2: like when I came back to Europe to race for
Speaker 2: a couple of years because the IndyCar series merged together
Speaker 2: and one had Danika and one had me, and like
Speaker 2: it was literal that they only wanted one of us,
Speaker 2: like there was only room for one woman. So subconsciously
Speaker 2: that just reinforces all the beliefs that you were just
Speaker 2: talking about.
Speaker 3: But now I realized, no, I don't know a decade ago.
Speaker 2: I guess it probably was that that was happening when
Speaker 2: we started the FIA Women in Motorspot Commission, and the
Speaker 2: FIA is the sport's governing body, so we were trying
Speaker 2: to get more women involved, and there was this mentality
Speaker 2: of I want to be the best woman amongst all
Speaker 2: of the females. And there was like maybe twenty of
Speaker 2: them across the world trying to make it as race
Speaker 2: car drivers in relatively different levels, and they all wanted
Speaker 2: to be the best girl. They wanted to be the
Speaker 2: standout girl. And I was banging the drum about no,
Speaker 2: you've got so many more people that you need to beat.
Speaker 2: You need to beat all the boys as well, Like
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if you're the best woman. Who cares
Speaker 2: if you're the best woman because there's so few of us.
Speaker 2: That doesn't actually put you anywhere in the whole skin
Speaker 2: of things. Like, let's band together, and which is why
Speaker 2: I put an all female team together, because I wanted
Speaker 2: to showcase the female talent, because we're stronger when we're together.
Speaker 2: And by the way, there's not many people who have
Speaker 2: had our life experiences, so we can all relate to
Speaker 2: each other, hell each other to grow, but there still is,
Speaker 2: especially amongst the younger ones. But I think that spread
Speaker 2: into them by the people they surround themselves with. That's
Speaker 2: all I can imagine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes with sports like racing where women can and
Speaker 1: do compete against men, we're not sure if we should
Speaker 1: put it in our women's sports conversation, but it's not
Speaker 1: really necessary for there to be a separate women's division either.
Speaker 1: Do you think that lack of separation has resulted in
Speaker 1: more or less women being included? Do you think if
Speaker 1: there was an opportunity for just women's races, more girls
Speaker 1: and women would give it a try?
Speaker 2: There is now actually, Sarah, there's the F one Academy, which.
Speaker 1: I've seen that, but didn't it lose funding like right
Speaker 1: when it started?
Speaker 2: So the W Series it was called before Formula One,
Speaker 2: kind of took on the same concept and made it
Speaker 2: their own. Yes, it failed because nobody wanted to sponsor
Speaker 2: it for some reason, and I.
Speaker 3: Don't know why.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, like, I don't know how I
Speaker 2: feel about that, and I'm so torn a knife flip flop,
Speaker 2: because yes, it gave women that wouldn't necessarily have had
Speaker 2: the opportunity. It gave them the opportunity and open doors
Speaker 2: and gave them a showcase if you like. But also,
Speaker 2: we don't need to be segregated in racing. It's not
Speaker 2: outright strength. There is absolutely no reason we cannot compete
Speaker 2: with the men. And you know, Linse and James and
Speaker 2: Janet Guthrie and Danika and I we've all proven that
Speaker 2: we work hard enough in the gym that we can
Speaker 2: be strong enough to drive these race cars and we
Speaker 2: don't need to be segregated.
Speaker 3: So the fact that they are segregating us is actually.
Speaker 2: Keeping the level lower because they're not racing against the
Speaker 2: best of the best, so they're not becoming the best
Speaker 2: that they can be. And so it's kind of it's
Speaker 2: another way that I think is weirdly keeping women down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like maybe a little bit of both. You know,
Speaker 1: it stays open category, but there are opportunities, especially in
Speaker 1: the lower levels, for women to race alone, to feel
Speaker 1: more comfortable, to feel more supported, to feel like maybe
Speaker 1: they aren't going to get that bs from parents or
Speaker 1: adults about competing against boys. We have to take a
Speaker 1: quick break. We'll be right back. You know, I listened
Speaker 1: to an interview. Did you said that racing has been
Speaker 1: your life twenty four to seven since the age of nine.
Speaker 1: You do everything all in, no half ass. Everything is
Speaker 1: about pushing yourself. Everything is about squeezing out every bit
Speaker 1: of your potential. And I find in life sometimes the
Speaker 1: qualities that make us great at our job can lead
Speaker 1: to issues in the rest of life, lack of balance,
Speaker 1: struggles in personal or family life, difficulty accepting loss or disappointment.
Speaker 1: If we're extremely competitive and then we try to bring
Speaker 1: that to other spaces. Sometimes it's not great in life
Speaker 1: that I could talk forever and ever, and I have
Speaker 1: opinions on everything. It's good for my job, maybe not
Speaker 1: for everybody that wants to hang out. Do you find
Speaker 1: that some of the things that make you great at
Speaker 1: racing make the rest of your life tough?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, We're getting all deep and meaningful now, yeah, but yes.
Speaker 2: So one thing is everybody says you make sacrifices, right,
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily see it as sacrifices because I've never
Speaker 2: thought of giving up anything for racing, because racing is
Speaker 2: my identity. And that's scary, Like if you actually think
Speaker 2: about it, racing should be something that you do, not
Speaker 2: who you are, but it's something that's kind of taken
Speaker 2: over my life and it is who I am. And yes,
Speaker 2: it's been to the detriment of relationships. You know, they're
Speaker 2: hard to maintain when you're going around like you're going
Speaker 2: away every other week, you're going away with a bunch
Speaker 2: of men, so there's jealousies that come into play.
Speaker 3: There's also you.
Speaker 2: Know, I have to be a boss in every aspect
Speaker 2: of my work and take charge and it's really difficult
Speaker 2: to let go of being alpha when you're at home
Speaker 2: as well, so it's hard to I'm probably hard to
Speaker 2: deal with.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 2: My mom doesn't get my life either, as we mentioned before,
Speaker 2: but my dad does, so like it's had benefits well
Speaker 2: us closer probably and my mom and I further away.
Speaker 2: But yeah, relationships, I've got a lot of really great
Speaker 2: relationships in racing though, Like my friends are all to
Speaker 2: do with racing pretty much. But I would say that
Speaker 2: my life is very insular and it's very much like
Speaker 2: a traveling circus because I don't necessarily have a life
Speaker 2: outside of racing, which is a very strange concept for
Speaker 2: people to get the head around. But what's really really
Speaker 2: scary is what do I do after racing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's good to know that
Speaker 1: about yourself already. You don't necessarily have to have an
Speaker 1: answer or a solution, but to be aware of it
Speaker 1: now and start thinking about what it looks like when
Speaker 1: racing isn't. You could still be an owner or a
Speaker 1: you know, work in the space without still racing yourself.
Speaker 1: But what other aspects of life and who you are
Speaker 1: do you want to explore when you have the time
Speaker 1: for it. I'll just tell you personally, it was really
Speaker 1: meaningful to me the old podcast that I used to host,
Speaker 1: where I just had everybody from every walk of life
Speaker 1: and industry that I was fascinated and interested in, and
Speaker 1: talking to people who had major life disruptions, whether they
Speaker 1: had a massive injury or illness, whether they were fired
Speaker 1: from a job that they loved, some massive thing. And
Speaker 1: I remember when I would talk to them and hear
Speaker 1: the way they dealt with that, I would think, how
Speaker 1: would I deal with something like that? And I realized, terribly,
Speaker 1: terribly would have been the answer to a disruption of
Speaker 1: the life that I had created and loved. And then
Speaker 1: when I went from full time to part time at ESPN,
Speaker 1: somewhere I had worked for thirteen years and thought I
Speaker 1: would never leave. It was such a blow to my
Speaker 1: identity because my identity was Sarah Spain from ESPN. And
Speaker 1: I think it's useful to start doing that exercise with
Speaker 1: yourself now of what would it look like if this
Speaker 1: wasn't my every day, What would I want to do?
Speaker 1: How I would I spend my time? Just you know,
Speaker 1: so that whenever things change, you're already in a mindset
Speaker 1: of like you'll be able to deal with it and
Speaker 1: find the positive spin on it. That's my advice from
Speaker 1: someone who got smacked up the side of the head
Speaker 1: without warning.
Speaker 3: I will absolutely do that.
Speaker 1: I want to do a speed round quickly. I have
Speaker 1: so many other questions for you, but we're running out
Speaker 1: of time. So favorite race ever, Long Beach, Crum Prix, Awesome,
Speaker 1: favorite car you got to race.
Speaker 2: Champ called the Indy Car back in the day when
Speaker 2: it was big and burlliant, loads of power.
Speaker 1: Dream car you'd want to have, just to like tool around.
Speaker 3: Town pushed heabm hmm.
Speaker 1: Race you'd most like to compete in.
Speaker 3: Them all twenty four or BATHFST twelve hours.
Speaker 1: The racer you most look up to, current or anytime, anytime,
Speaker 1: and Senna the goal you've set and have yet to reach,
Speaker 1: win the Indy five hundred mm hmm. How often is
Speaker 1: a race decided by the car and at the driver.
Speaker 3: All the time?
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, the guys at the back are
Speaker 2: working way harder than the guys at the front because
Speaker 2: the car is so much better. So I would say
Speaker 2: that that is a really good question because it's a
Speaker 2: common misconception that the drivers at the back are the
Speaker 2: worst drivers.
Speaker 3: That is absolutely not the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I wonder how you deal with that, Like
Speaker 1: you're participating in a sport that not only could be
Speaker 1: so unpredictable because another driver's error could take you out,
Speaker 1: but also I know in the twenty twenty three and
Speaker 1: five hundred your race ended due to engine failure. That
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with.
Speaker 2: You, right right, the car wasn't capable of running up
Speaker 2: front either, so it was almost like it was inevitable
Speaker 2: that we were going to have a bad day. That's
Speaker 2: a bad way of looking at it, but it kind
Speaker 2: of was. So you always want to prove yourself. You
Speaker 2: have to prove yourself in the in the bad equipment
Speaker 2: bad But like the second lassid so that you can
Speaker 2: then move up and you can interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, that's it's like having a teammate that lets
Speaker 1: you kind of but all the blame goes to you. Oh,
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it, Like I always say, I could
Speaker 1: never play the sports where I'm only on the field
Speaker 1: for like offense and then the defense takes over because
Speaker 1: I'd be like, ah, you're sucking it up. Let me
Speaker 1: get out there. Like I just way too much control
Speaker 1: issues for that.
Speaker 2: So when we do Daytona twenty four hours and this
Speaker 2: sports car racist that we do endurance racing in, we
Speaker 2: have teammates, right, and it is exactly the same.
Speaker 3: And I am exactly the same as you. I'm a
Speaker 3: control freak.
Speaker 2: And when somebody else is in the car, I'm on
Speaker 2: the radio go why are they doing that?
Speaker 3: What are they doing it? Tell them this?
Speaker 1: Do that. I don't know how you do it. Do
Speaker 1: you have to do therapy or exercises to process how
Speaker 1: to look at your performance independent of whether the equipment
Speaker 1: or your pit crew or something else happened that made
Speaker 1: the race go wrong.
Speaker 2: No, And I think therapy is a relatively new concept
Speaker 2: in sports, Like back in the day when I was
Speaker 2: learning it, was kind of like, suck it up and
Speaker 2: get on with that, right, and now they're is. Sports
Speaker 2: psychologist are very helpful and I have seen one a
Speaker 2: few times in the past and it helped an enormous amount.
Speaker 3: Gloria was her name, and she was amazing.
Speaker 2: And I think you learn ways of doing it yourself
Speaker 2: that you can then carry on a bit like physical training,
Speaker 2: like we have to physically train really hard, and so
Speaker 2: you learn after a while what works for you and
Speaker 2: what doesn't work for you.
Speaker 3: And it's the same with mental training.
Speaker 1: I imagine the same goes for getting back in a
Speaker 1: car after a crash. You had a really terrible crash
Speaker 1: at the two thousand and six Champ Car Race at
Speaker 1: Road America. What does that feel like? Does it slow down?
Speaker 1: Does it speed up? Are you processing it? Are you
Speaker 1: blacking out like in that moment? What's it like?
Speaker 2: Terrifying? I've had a few. I think I'm like a
Speaker 2: cat with nine lives, and I think I've used that
Speaker 2: most of them. But what happened in that particular crash
Speaker 2: was the rear wing. So on an open wheel car,
Speaker 2: they've got a lot of downforce, and so you know
Speaker 2: what makes an aeroplane take off, there's like the uplift
Speaker 2: from the wings. Well we have the same but the
Speaker 2: opposite way around. So it's pushing us into the TIREMAC
Speaker 2: pushing the tire into the track surface, and those things
Speaker 2: generate over one thousand pounds of pressure on the tire,
Speaker 2: so you can imagine how much weight is on there.
Speaker 2: So mine broke and I picked up an enormous amount
Speaker 2: of speed because you don't have all that drag and
Speaker 2: that downfall gravity right exactly, And so I.
Speaker 3: Just remember thinking, what the what the what?
Speaker 2: But by the time I thought that, I was one
Speaker 2: hundred miles an hour into the wall and I was
Speaker 2: climbing a fence and I remember kept my eyes open.
Speaker 2: It was the first big crash I ever had, and
Speaker 2: I remember seeing the engine flying around and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's good because fire and fire is terrifying in a
Speaker 2: race car.
Speaker 3: That is the biggest thing.
Speaker 2: I think you can get your head around breaking bones,
Speaker 2: but for me, I don't. I would assume that it's
Speaker 2: the same for everybody, but I don't really know that.
Speaker 2: I think the thought of fire and the thought of
Speaker 2: Bernie is.
Speaker 1: At its terrible or I think it's universal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I saw that happen, I'm like, oh, nippie.
Speaker 2: But then I started to roll and I started to
Speaker 2: hit my head on the ground because in those times
Speaker 2: they didn't have the halo and all the safety equipment,
Speaker 2: and I thought, this is it.
Speaker 3: This how ends.
Speaker 2: I'm going to break my neck. But I came to
Speaker 2: rest upside down. I pushed a radio button, thinking that
Speaker 2: that would still work. Of course it didn't. It was
Speaker 2: probably two hundred yards up the track and I said,
Speaker 2: tell my dad I'm okay, because my dad was there
Speaker 2: and I wanted to, you know, I knew it was
Speaker 2: horrific and I wanted him to think that it was okay.
Speaker 2: But the safety crew were amazing. The cars were really strong,
Speaker 2: and they were already as I was crashing, they were
Speaker 2: on the track and they were getting to me, and
Speaker 2: they took me to the med center, and in typical
Speaker 2: brit style, I came out of the med center like
Speaker 2: a bit banged up but fine, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I'll be okay after a cup of tea.
Speaker 1: Wow, did you have to go through a lot to
Speaker 1: get back behind the wheel or was it just no?
Speaker 2: They put me back in a car four days later
Speaker 2: to make sure that I still had I know, right,
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. I think if it had been
Speaker 2: my fault and I had caused it, I would have
Speaker 2: thought about it very differently. But because it was just
Speaker 2: this anomaly thing that broke, it was.
Speaker 1: Your damn teammate again, letting you down, letting me down.
Speaker 2: But I had to come to Jesus with my dad
Speaker 2: about it too, because my dad. I had never seen
Speaker 2: my dad cry before and that was the first time.
Speaker 2: And he said, Catherine, for fifteen minutes, I didn't know
Speaker 2: whether you.
Speaker 3: Were dead or alive. I was like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: So I said, listen, I'm doing what I love and
Speaker 2: if anything bad happens to me, it's not because you
Speaker 2: got me into racing. It's not anything because of you,
Speaker 2: Like I love it and it's my fault and that
Speaker 2: you dare blame yourself kind of thing.
Speaker 3: So that was cool to clearly air.
Speaker 1: Okay, last question for your biggest pet peeve with drivers
Speaker 1: on the average American.
Speaker 2: Road left hand lane doing the same speed or a
Speaker 2: block and like move out of the left lane. The
Speaker 2: left lane is for passing, like it should be a
Speaker 2: system kind of ran here, like slower cars keep to
Speaker 2: the right lane. And then if you get a little
Speaker 2: bit faster in the middle lane, and then if you're
Speaker 2: going faster than that going the fast lane, you should
Speaker 2: not be just going in the fast lane and sitting
Speaker 2: there and doing sixty five miles an hour and seven
Speaker 2: to limit drives me absolutely potty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I completely agree, because also for me,
Speaker 1: everything is a race, just like you, and so I
Speaker 1: might get out of my way either you're going fast
Speaker 1: or getting out of my way. Do you get a
Speaker 1: lot of speeding tickets?
Speaker 2: I don't, luckily, because I have my eyes peeled all
Speaker 2: the time, and obviously ESTHS has been limits. But it's
Speaker 2: funny you mentioned that. So I'm gonna ask you a question.
Speaker 2: So I do this in everyday life, Like I'm getting
Speaker 2: on a plane, I'm like the most efficient way, the
Speaker 2: fastest way to get there. It's the same going around
Speaker 2: a grocery store, everything, and it impacts every aspect of
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 3: Do you do the same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's a serious problem.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 1: I always say that my competitiveness served me so well
Speaker 1: as an athlete and now just as a normal human.
Speaker 1: It does nothing for me except for make me sort
Speaker 1: of insufferable at times.
Speaker 2: Right, and people don't get it, and then we get
Speaker 2: annoyed with the people because they don't.
Speaker 1: Get it, because I'm like, you're not being efficient right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, why don't you do this better? Here's the
Speaker 1: perfect system I've laid out to how to do this
Speaker 1: quickly and efficiently. Get out of my way on the sidewalk,
Speaker 1: get out of my way on the road, get out
Speaker 1: of my way at the store, do this the way
Speaker 1: I said over here, and then it will be better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so much same, so lifelong process, Catherine, for everybody,
Speaker 1: not for everybody, for us. Yeah, but how are.
Speaker 2: We going to get over that so we can have normal,
Speaker 2: healthy relationships where we're not seeing everything as a competition.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what's helping. Just getting old
Speaker 1: is slowing me down and making it harder for me
Speaker 1: to try to do everything as quickly and efficiently. It
Speaker 1: was so great to talk to you. We can't wait
Speaker 1: to listen to more of your new podcast. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for taking some time to chat with us.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Catherine for joining us. Could I talk for
Speaker 1: a while longer? Really fascinating stuff. I learned a ton
Speaker 1: We have to take another quick break when we return. Finally,
Speaker 1: a FIFA decision we can get behind. Welcome back slices.
Speaker 1: You know, we love that you're listening, but we want
Speaker 1: you to get in the game every day too, So
Speaker 1: here's our good game play of the day. Listen to
Speaker 1: Catherine's podcast, Throttle Therapy. We'll link to where you can
Speaker 1: subscribe in our show notes and check out her next race,
Speaker 1: the Daytona five hundred on February fifteenth, or she'll be
Speaker 1: racing a stock car and she also plans to do
Speaker 1: the Memorial Day double this year, racing in the Indy
Speaker 1: five hundred and the Coca Cola six hundred on the
Speaker 1: same day. She would be the first woman to attempt it.
Speaker 1: So listen to her show and keep tabs on what
Speaker 1: she's up to. And listen to Full Circle, a new
Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports podcast hosted by Los Angeles Sparks gard
Speaker 1: Lexi Brown and sports media personality Mariah Rose. It premieres today.
Speaker 1: They're giving you the inside scoop on what's happening in
Speaker 1: the WNBA and college basketball, discussing their wide ranging playing experiences,
Speaker 1: giving you day to day news around the women's hoops world,
Speaker 1: and talking about the culture at large. Plus, fans will
Speaker 1: get an inside perspective because Lexi's playing in the upcoming
Speaker 1: Athletes Unlimited season. Once you finish our episode today, go
Speaker 1: tap in link to that pod is in our show
Speaker 1: notes too. We always love to hear from you, so
Speaker 1: hit us up on email. Good game at Wondermedia Network
Speaker 1: or leave us a voicemail at eight seven to two
Speaker 1: two oh four fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe,
Speaker 1: rate and review. It's easy watch. FIFA is suspending Panama Football
Speaker 1: Federation president Manuel Arius after he called national team player
Speaker 1: Marta Cox fat and out of shape, rating five out
Speaker 1: of five. Yeah, that's how a governing body should work.
Speaker 1: Review this guy. What a great a douche. Here's how
Speaker 1: things went down. Per the Athletic Cox was transparent with
Speaker 1: reporters about a perceived lack of facilities in Panama in
Speaker 1: the wake of the country's twenty twenty four CONCACAF w
Speaker 1: Goldcup group stage exit. Unhappy with Cox's remarks, Manuel Arius
Speaker 1: told reporters of Cox quote, she's out of shape, she's fat,
Speaker 1: she couldn't move on the pitch. It's very easy to talk,
Speaker 1: but she doesn't know anything about the Panama League for years.
Speaker 1: She doesn't know what's going on here. End quote. FIFA
Speaker 1: called the comments derogatory duh and sanctioned him. He's banned
Speaker 1: from all football related activity for six months and was
Speaker 1: fined ten nine hundred and thirty two bucks. After the
Speaker 1: sanction came down, Arius called his own comments quote very
Speaker 1: unfortunate language end quote, a very serious mistake. End quote.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you're damn right. We're so far past
Speaker 1: the days when bullying athletes was acceptable. And good on
Speaker 1: Cocks for saying what needed to be said about their resources.
Speaker 1: Clearly she struck a nerve. Now it's your turn, rate
Speaker 1: and review. Thanks for listening. See tomorrow and former Minnesota
Speaker 1: Aurora app ceplayer Morgan Stone and team co founder Andrea
Speaker 1: Yach join us to talk all things Aurora. Have you
Speaker 1: invested yet? This capitol raised window ends January thirty first,
Speaker 1: so get on it. Go right now, go. We'll put
Speaker 1: the link in our show notes. Good Game, Catherine, Good Game,
Speaker 1: Full Circle podcast you England for colonizing our soccer players.
Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network.
Speaker 1: Our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez and Grace Lynch.
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host
Speaker 1: Sarah Spain.