Speaker 1: Last year, President Obama was in St. Louis where he
Speaker 1: announced an ambitious government program called Tech Higher. The goal
Speaker 1: was to help local communities train more people for jobs
Speaker 1: and technology. At the time when we all leave digital lives,
Speaker 1: anybody who has the drive and the will to get
Speaker 1: into this field should have a way to do so,
Speaker 1: a pathway to do so. So my administration is committed
Speaker 1: to this initiation, and he introduced a woman called Lashawna Lewis.
Speaker 1: The President says she's exactly the kind of person who
Speaker 1: deserves a chance. Now. The reason Leshada's story is so
Speaker 1: relevant is Lashanna grew up in East St. Louis. She
Speaker 1: had a passion for computers, but because of circumstances constraints,
Speaker 1: she wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth,
Speaker 1: um she wasn't able to get a college degree, and
Speaker 1: because she didn't have a college degree, she couldn't and
Speaker 1: get an interview for a touch job despite her coding skills.
Speaker 1: But Lashanna got some help from launch Code, which teaches
Speaker 1: coding and helps place people in related jobs in St. Louis,
Speaker 1: and today she's a system engineer a master card. This
Speaker 1: was a real success story at a time when teaching
Speaker 1: high level computing skills to students has never mattered more.
Speaker 1: The U S Government expects almost two thousand new software
Speaker 1: developer jobs over the next ten years. There are tons
Speaker 1: of coding schools, boot camps here in the Bay Area
Speaker 1: and all over the country. They all want to produce
Speaker 1: more success stories like Lishanna, Summer for profit, Summer nonprofits.
Speaker 1: I feel like I hear about a new one every week.
Speaker 1: One of these schools is especially interesting. It was started
Speaker 1: in Paris by a French billionaire named Xavier Neil, and
Speaker 1: about three years after the launch of that first school,
Speaker 1: he decided to open another branch right here in Silica
Speaker 1: On Valley, the mecca of technology. The school's called a
Speaker 1: called count or School forty two in English, and the
Speaker 1: new branch in the U S is in a town
Speaker 1: called Fremont, the same place where Tesla builds its cars.
Speaker 1: It stands out not because its founder, Xavier or'neil, is
Speaker 1: one of the richest guys in France. Yeah, he's kind
Speaker 1: of like a cross between Steve Jobs and Elon Musk,
Speaker 1: and not because he's a ponytail wearing geek who dropped
Speaker 1: out of school, or even because he first got rich
Speaker 1: by starting a sex chat service and went on to
Speaker 1: build a giant internet and phone company called Iliad. Well,
Speaker 1: all those things are interesting, but the school stands out
Speaker 1: because it offers a rigorous three year education and the
Speaker 1: most highly demanded skill in the modern economy, all for
Speaker 1: the absolutely low price of nothing. Hi, I'm brad Stone,
Speaker 1: and then Sarah McBride, and this week on Decrypted will
Speaker 1: tell you about an education experiment aimed at addressing one
Speaker 1: of the tech industry's most intractable problems by offering the
Speaker 1: program for free. The goal is to extend opportunities to
Speaker 1: people who have been shut out of high paying, secure
Speaker 1: jobs and technology. We'll also hear the rub how starting
Speaker 1: a free coding school in the US brings a special
Speaker 1: set of challenges that never came up in France. I
Speaker 1: found that out drawing visits to the Silicon Valley branch
Speaker 1: at the school, which just opened in September. You'll also
Speaker 1: hear from me. I'm Marie Moab and I'm our tech
Speaker 1: reporter in Paris. I visited the original branch of school
Speaker 1: for the two and I spoke to its billionaire founder
Speaker 1: Xavian You. So, Marie, let's start with that Xavier Neil
Speaker 1: and why he decided to open the school. Well, Zevinel
Speaker 1: says he wanted to solve two problems. First, businesses need
Speaker 1: more coders. That's a huge challenge here in the US,
Speaker 1: where the tech industry is going faster than almost any
Speaker 1: other sector. The people who make great coders just start
Speaker 1: getting a chance, like people from rough backgrounds or youngsters
Speaker 1: with criminal records. Here's what Davinel told me about why
Speaker 1: he decided to start to school. In our company, we
Speaker 1: we saw that we did not find enough people, enough talent,
Speaker 1: enough people who knew how to cut. And in this
Speaker 1: mind we had we had, we had, and we have
Speaker 1: very good school teaching call inference, but never enough people
Speaker 1: who know how to And at the same time, if
Speaker 1: we were in outside of Peris, in a lot of suburbs,
Speaker 1: you have a lot of people who are very poor.
Speaker 1: And in fact, in France, when you are when you
Speaker 1: were born, when you were born, in your in the
Speaker 1: perfectly at the end, you cannot go to school and
Speaker 1: you stay and your women, you women poor generation after generation.
Speaker 1: And the idea it was to mix these two things
Speaker 1: and to try to have these people coming from the
Speaker 1: poor superbs going to a coding school. I cot aboot
Speaker 1: that and meal on the top floor of the Paris
Speaker 1: headquarters of the Iliad in front of a panoramic view
Speaker 1: of the city. Neil came in wearing a turtleneck, thick
Speaker 1: frame glasses, his usual slicked back, longish hair, and he's
Speaker 1: a friendly type, smiling and he gets quite passionate when
Speaker 1: he talks about forty two. And we should probably explain
Speaker 1: to anyone not the steeped in geekie science fiction where
Speaker 1: the name of the school comes from. It's a reference
Speaker 1: from the book The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and
Speaker 1: it's actually the answer to life's biggest but never explicitly
Speaker 1: stated question forty two. And by the way, when I
Speaker 1: visited the school, I realized it's full of nerdy references
Speaker 1: like that. So Sarah tell me more, what's what's unusual
Speaker 1: about forty two. Well, it's a three year program and
Speaker 1: it's free, but it's not accredited. There's a curriculum and
Speaker 1: tests you have to pass, but no teachers. The students
Speaker 1: teach themselves. When School forty two first opened in France,
Speaker 1: thousands of people applied. Davinil picked an up and coming
Speaker 1: neighborhood in the north of Paris called Kishi. It's basically
Speaker 1: being rebuilt from the ground up. It looks like a
Speaker 1: construction site in what used to be a neglected rundown area.
Speaker 1: It's school of cranes and jackhammers all over the sidewalk,
Speaker 1: but it's slowly shaping into a modern district around the
Speaker 1: skyscraper building for Paris's biggest courthouse, and Sarah tell us
Speaker 1: about the school here in the U s well, it's
Speaker 1: pretty much opposite to the school in France. Here it's
Speaker 1: in an office park mere Fremat, a suburban kind of
Speaker 1: place on the southeastern side of Silicon Valley, about forty
Speaker 1: miles from San Francisco. It's in an office park by
Speaker 1: a freeway, past a bunch of strip halls, and at
Speaker 1: first I couldn't even tell if I was in the
Speaker 1: right spot because the parking lot looked so empty. It's
Speaker 1: in a big office building that used to belong to
Speaker 1: another college school. Forty two bought the building, but it's
Speaker 1: hard to tell. It still says de Vry University and
Speaker 1: giant letters on the front. You have to head around
Speaker 1: to the back of the building to find the school.
Speaker 1: Forty two Entrance exactly, and Yell said he founded both
Speaker 1: schools for similar reasons when something struck him about software
Speaker 1: engineers and we don't have a lot of usity influence
Speaker 1: in this kind of job. It's really really white people
Speaker 1: coming from more or less switch families because in the
Speaker 1: US you have exacts same issue and the same problem.
Speaker 1: So exactly, Neil decided to open a branch of his
Speaker 1: French school in the Bay Area, and a lot of
Speaker 1: tech industry people who knew about the school got super excited.
Speaker 1: School forty two put up a video of them on
Speaker 1: its website. Here's Stuart Butterfield, who found it slack. I
Speaker 1: love the concept of forty I like the idea of
Speaker 1: here learning. And Jack Dorsey, who founded Twitter and Square.
Speaker 1: It's really unique. Again, I haven't seen anything else like
Speaker 1: it in the world. And Evan Spiegel, who found its Snapchat.
Speaker 1: I'm excited that it's coming to the US. That was
Speaker 1: my one big complaint when I visited. I was like,
Speaker 1: why is this not in the United States? And they
Speaker 1: were like, well, actually, I think San Francisco. Here's what
Speaker 1: the school in France and the school in the US share.
Speaker 1: They're both open seven they only take students under thirty
Speaker 1: and all work gets done in giant computer labs. In
Speaker 1: the US, the school has exactly one thousand, twenty four
Speaker 1: Mac computers. It's another one of those nerdy references we mentioned,
Speaker 1: because that's how many bites are in a kilobite. Sometimes. Okay,
Speaker 1: but Marie, I'm having a hard time getting my mind
Speaker 1: around one fact we mentioned earlier. There are no teachers
Speaker 1: at the school. Zero teachers. There's no need for them
Speaker 1: because the students teach themselves. Really, of course, they learned
Speaker 1: from a curriculum compiled by the school and they have
Speaker 1: to pass tests to move to the next level. Okay,
Speaker 1: what does it take to get in? First? You have
Speaker 1: to pass a logic test online, It's almost like playing
Speaker 1: a game, and if you pass that, you can come
Speaker 1: to campus for another set of tests during lapicin. Now,
Speaker 1: that's yet another of those inside jokes at the school.
Speaker 1: Pisin is the French word for swimming pool, and when
Speaker 1: you talk to the students, they'll tell you definitely get
Speaker 1: thrown in at the deep end. If you make it
Speaker 1: through the piecine, then you can come join the program.
Speaker 1: It's three years and it's free and in the US,
Speaker 1: there's a free dorm too, but you still need to
Speaker 1: pay living expenses. And how does that compare to the
Speaker 1: deal offered by other coding schools. Well, in the US,
Speaker 1: coding schools may cost around fifteen thousand dollars for about
Speaker 1: three months, So coding school's pricey here, but it's short.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, school forty two takes three years,
Speaker 1: so in times spend, it's almost like going to college,
Speaker 1: and you learn a lot more than in a twelve
Speaker 1: week boot camp. But that's three years when you could
Speaker 1: be holding down a job and earning a salary. So
Speaker 1: Sarah's avior, Neil isn't making any money on tuition. Is
Speaker 1: this purely a philanthropic endeavor? Yeah, purely philanthropic. He gets
Speaker 1: a little boost to his personal brand from it, but
Speaker 1: he's not getting any money. He came from a rough
Speaker 1: background himself. I think he just wants to give a
Speaker 1: little back. Okay, So the big question is it working?
Speaker 1: Of course, because Neil likes to boast about how some
Speaker 1: outrageous numbers something like twenty thousand companies have offered internships
Speaker 1: for equal forty two students before they even graduated, and
Speaker 1: when the school launched one consulting firm said it will
Speaker 1: hire everyone who graduates. Now the first crop of graduates
Speaker 1: are actually out and so far it is looking pretty
Speaker 1: good for them. Some of landed jobs at Uber and
Speaker 1: at banks Associate Janal for example, and of course because
Speaker 1: Neil himself is looking to hire at Iliad Marie. What
Speaker 1: are the students like? They really look like your average teenager.
Speaker 1: They're in their early twenties, one in ten or women,
Speaker 1: so when you walk into the school you mostly just
Speaker 1: see a bunch of guys and T shirts and hoodies
Speaker 1: with their headphones on, their eyes glued to their computer screen.
Speaker 1: School forty two doesn't track statistics about family incomes, so
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell. But when you talk to the students,
Speaker 1: many will tell you about tough backgrounds and previous jobs
Speaker 1: delivering pizza for example. Generally university was out of the
Speaker 1: question and most never even graduated from high school. That's
Speaker 1: way different to School forty two and Fremat they're the
Speaker 1: students are a couple of years older than in France.
Speaker 1: There are more women, and when you talk to them
Speaker 1: you hear that many of college degrees, Lots of them
Speaker 1: were well along in different careers before switching gears and
Speaker 1: trying coding. So where were you working before here? I
Speaker 1: was working for Macy's as a as a merchandiser. It's
Speaker 1: a dramatic shift. Yeah. I went to the University of Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: I was there for three years. I was trying to
Speaker 1: get a pharmacy degree, but I never actually went to
Speaker 1: pharmacy school. I was just in uh pre pharmacy. And
Speaker 1: then there's this student, Sonia chib. She was formerly an
Speaker 1: investment banker. I'm going to attact from sub university and
Speaker 1: a starting asset management field and I'll move to investment banking.
Speaker 1: When I was as he stunts in the money market
Speaker 1: short money market, and after that I was in charge
Speaker 1: of control the position and derivative Sasania is smart and eager,
Speaker 1: but she's not the profile of the typical student you'd
Speaker 1: imagine would benefit from a free coding school. And she's
Speaker 1: not really the kind exacting you says he'd most like
Speaker 1: to attract. Here's the kind of person, he says, he
Speaker 1: wants people coming from the diversity, poor people. If this
Speaker 1: is a kind of people who are looking for but Tosnia,
Speaker 1: her presence is desirable, maybe even vital. It's not just
Speaker 1: give a chance two people who don't who can't come
Speaker 1: in the traditional school. No, it's to to to to
Speaker 1: mix people. I'm here to meet other people and to
Speaker 1: try to uh to exchange my idea with them, and
Speaker 1: maybe something's good will happen with there's people. I'm not
Speaker 1: here to stay in my corner alone. No, and when
Speaker 1: you put it like that, actually exactly nearly agrees with her.
Speaker 1: If you are coming from the witch famili and your
Speaker 1: your parents is even your parents have not to pay
Speaker 1: you a great school? Were the po that the great idea?
Speaker 1: It's twenty it's to try to mix people into having
Speaker 1: these school. People who can have thought to have to
Speaker 1: to go to in the big university. And it's at
Speaker 1: the same time people who cannot have thought to go
Speaker 1: any well, and to mix them. Of course, this is
Speaker 1: a hard problem at all kinds of universities and workplaces
Speaker 1: that work to recruit diverse groups. The different groups don't
Speaker 1: always interact as much as hope for, and to be
Speaker 1: fair to Sonia, she's not exactly stealing places from hordes
Speaker 1: of underprivileged applicants. School forty two says it's been a
Speaker 1: challenge getting word out to the people they want to reach.
Speaker 1: Brittany Beer is the chief operating officer of school forty
Speaker 1: two and Freemont. I definitely think that there could be
Speaker 1: something that is going on right now that some communities
Speaker 1: don't necessarily know that this opportunity is out there, or
Speaker 1: that it's actually available to them. This is actually a
Speaker 1: big problem in the US. A lot of universities say
Speaker 1: they have a tough time finding the diverse group of
Speaker 1: students they want. Critics, of course, say they aren't trying
Speaker 1: hard enough, or they should start earlier when students are younger.
Speaker 1: Brittany said forty two relied a lot on media to
Speaker 1: get the word out and also online discussions places like Reddit.
Speaker 1: I asked a bunch of the students how they found
Speaker 1: out about the school. I learned about forty two through
Speaker 1: a Reddit post that I followed to the application. I
Speaker 1: found it on Facebook and it was interesting, So I
Speaker 1: talked a good about my parents and they I am um. Actually,
Speaker 1: one day I was reading on Forbes magazine and I
Speaker 1: actually saw an ad for forty two and figured that, Hey,
Speaker 1: this looks interesting. I should give this a shot, so
Speaker 1: I did. The problem is the people who most benefit
Speaker 1: from forty two might not be reading those articles or
Speaker 1: checking those websites. So is forty two doing anything to
Speaker 1: reach out to community groups to try to get more
Speaker 1: candidates from less privileged backgrounds to apply. They are, They're
Speaker 1: talking to a number of community groups, and Brittany thinks
Speaker 1: things will improve naturally over time as more people learn
Speaker 1: about the school and spread the word. So far, there's
Speaker 1: a definite contrast though. In France, when the school announced
Speaker 1: it was opening, it drew seventy thousand initial applicants, whereas
Speaker 1: in the US it was just a few thousand. And
Speaker 1: that's partly because because you knew the founder doesn't have
Speaker 1: quite the reputation in the US that he does in France.
Speaker 1: Here's Brittany again. In France, when you say examunion, everybody
Speaker 1: knows him because he's the one that's making your cell
Speaker 1: phone plans, who's much cheaper than other individuals. So everybody
Speaker 1: has heard of, uh, this individual and knows also of
Speaker 1: forty two of the school. Yeah, I would say that
Speaker 1: he could be a version of Mark Zuckerberg in front.
Speaker 1: Zavin Neale is definitely a household name in France for
Speaker 1: a lot of youngsters. He's a symbol of how one
Speaker 1: guy can go from total outsider to lunching with the
Speaker 1: president and running a ten billion dollar company. But he's
Speaker 1: also a geek who can talk about coding, and that's
Speaker 1: helped him stand out from your average businessman. But Sarah,
Speaker 1: is it just that nobody has heard of Xavier Neil
Speaker 1: in the US or are there other challenges? Yeah, there
Speaker 1: are a few challenges. For example, the school here isn't accredited,
Speaker 1: so students can't get student loans or even deferrals on
Speaker 1: loans they already have. And that's important because a lot
Speaker 1: of US students have already been to at least some college.
Speaker 1: I met a woman called Kimberly Arvin. She chopped out
Speaker 1: of an annas thesiology program in southern California to go
Speaker 1: to school forty two, but not before she racked up
Speaker 1: some pretty big bucks in student loans. She won't be
Speaker 1: able to start paying them off until she gets a
Speaker 1: paid internship next year, so whatever collection notices come, you'll
Speaker 1: just ignore until you have a little bit of an income.
Speaker 1: I would say forty two is worth it at this
Speaker 1: current moment. Yeah. One thing she said makes it worthwhile
Speaker 1: the free tuition at forty two, and another student, Devin McLaughlin,
Speaker 1: told me that because of the free dorm, he's been
Speaker 1: able to keep expenses to a minimum. It's very strange
Speaker 1: to revisit dorm life much later down the line, but
Speaker 1: it's it's fairly easy because you don't have to pay
Speaker 1: for living space, the price of food is managed, and
Speaker 1: anything else is not optional exactly, but minimal. When you
Speaker 1: ask Vino though, the founder of forty two, he'll tell
Speaker 1: you free education isn't always a selling point. In the US.
Speaker 1: We have a special particular in shoeing z in you guys,
Speaker 1: which is that when it's sweet, when you have notation people,
Speaker 1: the things you have always something behind it. We didn't
Speaker 1: have this thing in France, but in the US. Okay,
Speaker 1: well you have a tweak. What's what's behind and there's
Speaker 1: nothing behind it? Brittany Beer, the CEO in the US,
Speaker 1: said the same thing. Is it really free? What's the catch? Is?
Speaker 1: Quite often what I always hear, uh and is this
Speaker 1: for real? Most individuals think that this is actually a scam.
Speaker 1: We had one student he showed up and we found
Speaker 1: him wandering around in the parking lot with a suitcase,
Speaker 1: and we asked him what he was doing, and he said, well,
Speaker 1: I just got off a plane from Florida. I wasn't
Speaker 1: quite sure that the building was actually even going to
Speaker 1: even exist. I thought this was kind of a scam,
Speaker 1: but I figured, hey, what's a plane ticket. Might as
Speaker 1: well find out and see what it's like. That student,
Speaker 1: Adam Rivo says, that's pretty much exactly what happened. I
Speaker 1: was very skeptical and did not think it was legitimate,
Speaker 1: And part of his suspicion was the price tag. You
Speaker 1: see free education, and people of course judged that being
Speaker 1: very poor. There's actually mixed evidence on that point. Unlike
Speaker 1: parts of Europe, free higher education in the US is rare.
Speaker 1: What comes closest to it in the US has community colleges,
Speaker 1: which are usually less expensive, right, but those aren't exactly
Speaker 1: considered prestigious. President Obama has suggested making community colleges completely free,
Speaker 1: but some of the people critical of the plan said
Speaker 1: it would devalue the education they were providing. Still, the
Speaker 1: students at School forty two say that free definitely doesn't
Speaker 1: mean easy or low quality. Here's Adam again, I've never
Speaker 1: been a part of something that works so incredibly well.
Speaker 1: That's despite getting hit by some pretty tough standards. Adam
Speaker 1: found that out on the first test, I didn't do
Speaker 1: so hot. There's a lot of work to do and
Speaker 1: I just didn't prepare myself properly. So the next one
Speaker 1: too much better. So we can't blame the teacher because
Speaker 1: at School forty two there are no teachers. The policy
Speaker 1: stems from researcher dating back decades on something called peer learning.
Speaker 1: Pure learning shows that students learn much better when they
Speaker 1: have to explain the material themselves. Lots of universities use
Speaker 1: it here and there, so does another coding school in
Speaker 1: San Francisco that in weighs a similar to forty two,
Speaker 1: called the Whole Burden School, but School forty two takes
Speaker 1: the idea to extremes. Yeah, I saw them doing that.
Speaker 1: The students have to do all their work sitting together
Speaker 1: in the computer lab. They hold study sessions before tests,
Speaker 1: but sometimes that doesn't go so well. At one study session,
Speaker 1: a student gave a long, complicated solution to a problem
Speaker 1: and another student was complaining, was waving his phone around
Speaker 1: showing his screen, and what he said was a much
Speaker 1: more elegant answer. Nothing's perfect. Nothing's perfect, that's Mason young
Speaker 1: who helped organize the study session. All we can do
Speaker 1: is h examine it, learn from the mistakes, let it go,
Speaker 1: and move on. You could say the same about the
Speaker 1: school itself. It will be interesting to watch what happens
Speaker 1: to the people coming out of this program. Will they
Speaker 1: get those coveted engineering jobs with the top Internet companies.
Speaker 1: One challenge is that many of the big Silicon Valley
Speaker 1: companies where forty two students say they'd like to work Facebook, Google,
Speaker 1: those companies generally won't hire out of coding schools. Yes,
Speaker 1: they're very traditional. They still like good old fashioned college
Speaker 1: grads or engineers with lots of experience. We'll get to
Speaker 1: find out in a few months because those companies will
Speaker 1: have their first chance to actually test the chops of
Speaker 1: the students at the school. In the spring of two
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen, the first group of US students starts applying
Speaker 1: for internships. So, Sarah, if this podcasting thing doesn't work
Speaker 1: out for us, would you ever consider going to a
Speaker 1: coding school or even a school late school forty two?
Speaker 1: You know what I actually thought about that took the
Speaker 1: test and realized I personally have zero actions. How do
Speaker 1: you do in the test. I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: could tell things were not going well. I still haven't
Speaker 1: done part two of the test, which is when i'd
Speaker 1: get my results. But uh, given what I know now,
Speaker 1: if I really wanted to be a coder, I would
Speaker 1: still go to coding school. It's just a lot more
Speaker 1: work than I'd realized before I started doing the reporting
Speaker 1: for this story. I talked to one guy who sent
Speaker 1: out resumes before he got a job. It's not just
Speaker 1: going to this school, it's all the work afterwards, And
Speaker 1: what you're really getting is just a little taste for coding.
Speaker 1: You still have to do a ton of work to
Speaker 1: land a job and be able to not get fired
Speaker 1: in that job. Well, as you point out in the
Speaker 1: accompanying print story on coding schools which people should check
Speaker 1: out on Bloomberg dot com, slash tech, the jury is
Speaker 1: still out on some of these programs, right. I mean, uh, companies,
Speaker 1: the big companies in Slicon Valley don't always quite know.
Speaker 1: They're not quite confident in in in the kind of
Speaker 1: graduates they're getting. Here's the problem. When they first came out,
Speaker 1: everyone wanted to hire coders, and I think quite a
Speaker 1: few people did get hired out of boot camps. In fact,
Speaker 1: I spoke to people who went in kind of the
Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen timeframe, and was pretty easy for
Speaker 1: those people to get jobs. So then they got a
Speaker 1: reputation as, oh, yeah, I'll go to this school and
Speaker 1: you'll be able to get a job. But then when
Speaker 1: people started realizing that twelve weeks in boot camp actually
Speaker 1: is not enough to learn coding, that maybe it makes
Speaker 1: sense to hire somebody who went to college and studied
Speaker 1: computer science and spent four years on it, the backlash happened. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of these schools are not doing so well
Speaker 1: when it comes to placing their rats. School forty two
Speaker 1: is more like a college course because it's three years
Speaker 1: long and you have to do internships with companies before
Speaker 1: you can finish their program, so they might have a
Speaker 1: little bit more of a shot at successfully placing students faster.
Speaker 1: Marie Mawad and Paris would you ever consider going to
Speaker 1: free coding school? Step one would be to update from
Speaker 1: my HTML coding from twenty years ago. I'd have some
Speaker 1: work to do, let's say that. So, Brad, would you
Speaker 1: ever leave the highly lucrative field of journalism for coding schools. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I've always had an interest in programming. I
Speaker 1: did a little bit, uh when I was young. Um.
Speaker 1: But I have to say your your story, UM, was illuminating,
Speaker 1: and I think that participants are right to ask some
Speaker 1: hard questions about these boot camps and coding schools. You know,
Speaker 1: they're very new, and they don't have long academic records
Speaker 1: or or records or statistics really placing graduates in, you know,
Speaker 1: in professional jobs that we can look to with confidence.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, I think probably for you,
Speaker 1: for for me, or for anyone, it's probably worthwhile looking
Speaker 1: at some of these programs with just a little bit
Speaker 1: of caution. My my coding, I'll stopped in about the
Speaker 1: eighth grade when I made a video game that ended
Speaker 1: as soon as you fire a laser. And that's it
Speaker 1: for this week's Deck Krypto. Thanks for listening. If you
Speaker 1: have an iPhone, please subscribe to the show on your
Speaker 1: native podcast app and leave us a rating and review
Speaker 1: there that helps more listeners discover the show. You can
Speaker 1: also rade and review us on iTunes, and we're on
Speaker 1: a bunch of other platforms like SoundCloud, pocket Cast, and
Speaker 1: Stitcher and tell Us what you thought of today's show.
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at at brad Stone, Sarah's at at
Speaker 1: McBride SG, and Marie is at at Marie Underscore A
Speaker 1: Underscore Paris. This episode was produced by Pia Gutkari Akito,
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson, and Liz Smith. Emily Bus edited our accompanying
Speaker 1: print story, which you can find on bloomberg dot com
Speaker 1: slash Technology. Aaron Black assisted in recording. Alec McCabe, head
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Podcasts, We'll see you next week. M