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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: So we are getting new indications that, as many have

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Speaker 1: said before, Israel appears to have destroyed everything in Gaza

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Speaker 1: except for Hamas.

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Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: We're getting lots of new red triangle videos from Hamas

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Speaker 1: on a near daily basis. You can see here this

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Speaker 1: is infamously this is their targeting showing they're still able

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Speaker 1: to operate in various parts of the Gaza Strip, including

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Speaker 1: we know that there have been IDF casualties, and we'll

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Speaker 1: get to that in a moment in the northern Gaza

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Speaker 1: strip where they had already gone in and completely annihilated,

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Speaker 1: supposedly declared mission accomplished. But guess what, you didn't destroy Hamas,

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Speaker 1: You left a complete vacuum and so surprise surprise, Hamas

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Speaker 1: is filling that vacuum. And also surprise surprise when you

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Speaker 1: murder and slaughter a bunch of civilians, kids, women, destroy homes, hospitals, schools,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Guess what the ideology that fuels Hamas.

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Speaker 3: You are doing.

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Speaker 1: Nothing but pour gasoline on that ideology.

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Speaker 3: So let's put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: This is incredible from Politico Biden admin openly hammering Israel's

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Speaker 1: military strategy in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: They got a.

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Speaker 1: Bunch of quotes, both on and off the record from

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Speaker 1: Pentagon leaders who are saying there's no total victory against Hamas.

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Speaker 3: That's quote unquote unlikely.

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Speaker 1: You have another individual who says, not only do you

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Speaker 1: have to actually go in and clear out whatever adversary

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Speaker 1: you're up against, you have to go in hold the territory,

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Speaker 1: then you got to stabilize it. If that doesn't happen,

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Speaker 1: allows your adversary then to repopulate in areas if you're

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Speaker 1: not there. So that does make it more challenging for

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Speaker 1: them as far as being able to meet their objective,

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Speaker 1: being able to militarily destroy and defeat Hamas. Those comments

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Speaker 1: followed others by Tony B. Lincoln, who last week predicted

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Speaker 1: the eventual withdrawal of Israeli forces could leave a vacuum

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Speaker 1: that's likely to be filled by chaos, by anarchy, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately by Hamas. Again, this is like preschool level. It

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Speaker 1: was so easy to see this and was foreseen and

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Speaker 1: predicted even by people like us who are not military experts.

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Speaker 1: Jako was talking about this like three days into the

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Speaker 1: Israeli offensive that they were making. If they actually wanted

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Speaker 1: to target Hamas, this was the exact wrong way to

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Speaker 1: go about it. Of course, that was never the actual goal.

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Speaker 1: That was the goal sold to the Israeli public and

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Speaker 1: the US public in the world, never the actual goal.

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Speaker 1: The actual goal has always been complete and utter annihilation.

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Speaker 1: Some other incredible quotes from this article, though, Let's go

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Speaker 1: and put this up on the screen. They say, although

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Speaker 1: hamas communications and military abilities have been degraded, only thirty

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Speaker 1: to thirty five percent of its fighters those who were

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Speaker 1: to Hamas before October seventh, have been killed, and about

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Speaker 1: sixty five percent of their tunnels are still intact, according

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Speaker 1: to US intelligence. Let's put the next piece up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. Biden officials have also become increasingly concerned that

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Speaker 1: Hamas has been able to recruit during wartime thousands over

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Speaker 1: the last several months. That has allowed the group to

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Speaker 1: withstand months of Israeli offensives. According to a person familiar

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Speaker 1: with US intelligence, So honestly, Sagar, when you look at

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Speaker 1: these numbers that they've only and this is according to

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Speaker 1: US intelligence killed thirty percent of HAMAS fighters, that Hamas

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Speaker 1: has been able to recruit thousands more fighters during this time,

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Speaker 1: which again it was obvious that the Israeli offensive year

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Speaker 1: was only going to make people more likely to take

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Speaker 1: up hamas ideology of armed resistance and also join actively

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Speaker 1: join Hamas. When you put those two numbers together, it's

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Speaker 1: reasonable to ask whether they have degraded Hamas's numbers at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And inspectually frustrating is that all of this was

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Speaker 2: obvious to anybody, and I think, you know, look, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to choo my own horn, but it's like, basically,

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Speaker 2: a buy came up with Iraq and Afghanistan covering the Pentagon,

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Speaker 2: and so all of the people who came up and

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Speaker 2: really took over the Pentagon during the counterinsurgency movement knew

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Speaker 2: this from the very beginning. That's part of the reason

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Speaker 2: that Jocko's able to identify that. I will point here

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Speaker 2: to General Joseph Votel, who was a great general. He

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Speaker 2: was the head of the US Central Command during the

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Speaker 2: fight against ISIS covered him extensively at the time, had

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Speaker 2: special operations access. And here's what he says. Quote, everybody

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Speaker 2: gets the fact that you have to destroy HMAS, But

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Speaker 2: then what what's the plan to take care of the

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Speaker 2: two point five million Palestinians. What is the plan to

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Speaker 2: deal with the remainder of mass fighters? It seems incomplete.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they have communicated or have thought through

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Speaker 2: that as well as they would have hoped that they

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Speaker 2: would have. Now you're couching that in very friendly language.

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Speaker 2: But this is obvious and has been and I will

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Speaker 2: point again to the quotes from General Petraeus, from all

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Speaker 2: of his staff that was involved in Iraq. They are

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Speaker 2: repeating the exact same mistakes that the United States did

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Speaker 2: in its war in Iraq. And again, let's not forget

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Speaker 2: it took some two years for the full blown insurgency

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Speaker 2: to happen. Even three years, you know, some might argue

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Speaker 2: for the actual civil war to heat up to the

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Speaker 2: point where most people in America would pay attention. We

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Speaker 2: are watching this and that's why those videos matter so much,

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Speaker 2: because what do you see guerrilla warfare? Freedom of movement,

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Speaker 2: using the ability to move in and out of the rubble,

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Speaker 2: disguise yourself amongst the civilian population, and hit the occupying

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Speaker 2: force wherever it is, even if they have superior military technology.

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Speaker 2: And as long as you have the civilian population on

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Speaker 2: your side, or at the very least you're able to

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Speaker 2: recruit a ton of people from there, you are going

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Speaker 2: to win. Just because you can outlast the other ones.

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Speaker 2: They cannot by definition kill all of you. It's just

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Speaker 2: not possible. And you know I would point again to

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Speaker 2: in here is that the very top of our military

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Speaker 2: command is now outwardly saying this, including our new Chairman

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Speaker 2: of the Joint chiefs of Staff. The reason why is

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Speaker 2: we are the ones who are paying these bills. Now,

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Speaker 2: this is what we're going to talk about with Ken.

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Speaker 2: You know, our year has been a disaster. We spent

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Speaker 2: half a billion dollars on it, we've barely gotten any

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Speaker 2: aid the plan from the Israelis, from the Saudis, and

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Speaker 2: all of that is to ensnare the United States sencom

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Speaker 2: and all the soldiers and command officials who came up

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Speaker 2: in Iraq to try and repeat that experiment in Gaza

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Speaker 2: this time around, and basically, you know, get bought off

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Speaker 2: by the Israelis. So we have to resist this at

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Speaker 2: every turn possible. And you know, you can read this

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Speaker 2: very clear. These are sober minded individuals who have extensive

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Speaker 2: experience fighting these exact type of militants and they're looking

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Speaker 2: at this and they're seeing a full blown nightmare. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they could see it clearly.

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Speaker 1: And it's not like it went all that well when

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Speaker 1: we tried to do it either, but there.

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Speaker 2: Are worth for a bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, yeah, listen, if you actually are

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Speaker 1: going to if you are actually serious about destroying quote

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Speaker 1: unquote Humas, even if you do kill thirty fifty sixty

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Speaker 1: percent of their fighters, if you're fueling the ideology, then

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Speaker 1: you are going to see them bounce back tenfold. And

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Speaker 1: so what would really actually degrade Hamas. It's not a

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Speaker 1: hard question to answer, because we've seen over time when

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Speaker 1: Hamas has been more or less popular. Hamas is at

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Speaker 1: its most popular at times frankly like this, when peace

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Speaker 1: seems impossible, especially through non violence and diplomatic negotiations when

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Speaker 1: there's absolute fury at your treatment at the hands of

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Speaker 1: the Israelis. That's Those are the factors that fuel and

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Speaker 1: bolster Hamas. Nothing has been a greater gift to Hamas,

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Speaker 1: which I think it's true, doesn't really care about, you know,

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Speaker 1: civilian life, and is perfectly willing to sacrifice Palestinians in

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Speaker 1: the service of their cause. Nothing has bolstered them more

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Speaker 1: than this response. What has diminished Hamas popularity is when

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Speaker 1: there is an actual possibility and real prospect of peace.

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Speaker 3: So if you were.

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Speaker 1: Serious about undermining Hamas and destroying the legitimacy of their

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Speaker 1: ideology and ability to recruit, you would go in the

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Speaker 1: polar opposite direction of what Israel has done. And this

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Speaker 1: will be relevant in the next topic we discussed as well,

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Speaker 1: which is recognition of Palestinian statehood. And there's all this

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Speaker 1: conversational this is a good gift to Hamas, a gift

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Speaker 1: to terrorists, etc. Quite the opposite actual negotiations towards peace.

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Speaker 1: Nothing would undercut the Hamas ideology more than a real

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Speaker 1: prospect of peace and something approaching a just resolution. To

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Speaker 1: the point earlier about how we know it's not just

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Speaker 1: you know, their hamas propaganda videos, but they are inflicting

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Speaker 1: casualties and exacting real cost on the occupation forces.

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Speaker 3: Let's put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: You had three IDF soldiers who were killed in Northern

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Speaker 1: Gaza fighting Northern Gaza. Those soldiers, they were killed in

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Speaker 1: a variety of ways. There was one who was killed

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Speaker 1: as a result of an explosive device that went off

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Speaker 1: inside of building. A reservist and a combat officer were

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Speaker 1: also seriously wounded in that other incident. The other two

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Speaker 1: were killed by sniper fire, and another soldier from that

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Speaker 1: same division was also seriously wounded. So this is in

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Speaker 1: northern Gaza. You have at the same time this now

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Speaker 1: massive action in Rafa, which you know, anyone looking at

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Speaker 1: this would definitely classified as major even though the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration doesn't. You've had almost a million Palestinians once again

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Speaker 1: forcibly displaced from Rava with nowhere safe to go. You

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Speaker 1: have aid effectively completely cut off. We'll talk to Ken

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about that absolutely dire situation. Civilians

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Speaker 1: still being killed, and you know, to the point of well,

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Speaker 1: why isn't their plan for a day after and why

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Speaker 1: have they never you know, laid out what their plan

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Speaker 1: is for the day after. Well, there are certainly people

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Speaker 1: who are in the you know, in the fold, who

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Speaker 1: are cabinet ministers, who have said very plainly what their

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Speaker 1: plan is, one of them being Ben Gavier, who is

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Speaker 1: one of the most psycho members of the Israeli BB nine.

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Speaker 1: Now whose cabinet, let's put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: I'll read you what he said recently, indicating that he

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Speaker 1: wants to occupy all of Gaza with Jewish settlement. He says,

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Speaker 1: but that's not enough. One more step, which is the

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Speaker 1: most important step. Immigration. Yes, I'm not saying all of them,

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Speaker 1: by the way, And then he says, explain to me

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Speaker 1: to go back to the settlements we occupied during the war.

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Speaker 1: But not only that, you have a lot more to

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Speaker 1: occupy it. If there's an emigration of hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 1: who will leave, you will enter with more and more people.

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Speaker 1: And the questioner says, you will be the first to

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Speaker 1: live there, and he says, I will be very happy

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Speaker 1: to live there.

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Speaker 3: Yes, why not?

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Speaker 1: So not only do you have we're going to resettle

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Speaker 1: the entire Gaza strip, We're going to ethnically cleanse it

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Speaker 1: of Palestinians. I personally am interested in living there. This

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Speaker 1: is the goal of you know, powerful elements within the

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Speaker 1: Israeli government. This is what they have always wanted, this

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Speaker 1: is what they've said clearly. For some reason, US politicians

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Speaker 1: pretend they don't hear this, pretend they don't know that

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Speaker 1: this is a very clear goal of a very important

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Speaker 1: part of the BB Netnahu coalition. And I think that

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Speaker 1: Meerscheimer is right that the original goal of bb himself

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Speaker 1: was this ethnic cleansing, which hasn't really succeeded, and so

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Speaker 1: then shifted to just all out annihilation. And you know,

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Speaker 1: writing is on the wall as far as that's all concerned.

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Speaker 2: This is why I also think a government change in

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Speaker 2: Israel would be profound. Is even getting people outside of that,

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Speaker 2: like outside of the government and even forcing diplomatically their

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Speaker 2: hand to try and to form some sort of post

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Speaker 2: war strategy is definitely still better of an alternative than

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Speaker 2: the current situation because b B himself refuses to rule.

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Speaker 2: For example, in a CNN interview, he rules out he

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Speaker 2: says there will be no is really settlement in Gosa.

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Speaker 2: But then you have members of his own cabinet which

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Speaker 2: are out there saying it on top of many of

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Speaker 2: the previous things that he has said. I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: Benny Gantz is an angel or any of these other things,

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Speaker 2: but if you want to look at how to actually

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Speaker 2: move forward, I think it's pretty clear that the current

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Speaker 2: situation is unsustainable, both militarily, strategically and domestically. For the

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Speaker 2: current situation, which will not doesn't necessarily mean that they

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Speaker 2: will change anything. They will probably still continue.

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Speaker 3: When you say it's not sustainable, what do you mean

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Speaker 3: by that?

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Speaker 2: Oh, sustainable as in so you can't, you know, continue

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Speaker 2: a pup. So basically they don't have the military capacity

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Speaker 2: to pull off a complete annihilation. It's literally impossible. They

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Speaker 2: could try, but you know, given international pressure and all,

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Speaker 2: that not going to happen. Same time, in terms of strategically,

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Speaker 2: you see the ICC charges, international isolation, growing challenges even

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Speaker 2: here at home, even Nancy Pelosi says, hey, bebe, don't

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Speaker 2: come and speak to Congress right now. So you have

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Speaker 2: a big problem in terms of your biggest ally, and

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Speaker 2: then domestically you have got a basic problem with your

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Speaker 2: domestic coalition. You've got the hostage issue which continues to

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Speaker 2: blare in your face and huge protests that are there

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Speaker 2: at home with a viable opposition leader who is sitting

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Speaker 2: there getting more popular by the day. So on all

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Speaker 2: three fronts, you have a serious issue. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: it won't sustain for a long period, but I still

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Speaker 2: think it's a big problem.

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Speaker 3: I hope you're right.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not sure because we also have an election

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Speaker 1: coming up, and you know, Donald Trump administration isn't even

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Speaker 1: going to do the performative handrain that the Biden administration

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Speaker 1: occasionally does. They're not going to have those quote unquote

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Speaker 1: tough conversations. They're going to give them everything they want

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Speaker 1: when they want it, and go above and beyond, because

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Speaker 1: that's the position that the whole Republican Party has staked out.

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Speaker 1: Trump included that Biden hasn't been supportive enough of Israel,

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Speaker 1: So can they sustain it through the election? I mean

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Speaker 1: any of the previous Like you know, when we had

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Speaker 1: that minute of them saying, oh we paused a shim

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Speaker 1: and it was this big deal.

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Speaker 3: That's all gone.

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Speaker 1: Now you know, a million pals things have been displaced

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Speaker 1: from RAFA, this supposed red line has been you know,

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Speaker 1: more than crossed, and now all you see is just

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Speaker 1: back to the bear hug. So I don't see any

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Speaker 1: sign that the Biden administration is planning to change their

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Speaker 1: policy orientation towards Bebe and his government. I don't see

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Speaker 1: that they're willing to do anything other than you know,

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Speaker 1: these tough conversations behind the scenes really to try to

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Speaker 1: effectuate an inucome, which we I wasn't going to do anything. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, can they wait it out until the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration comes in? Do they really over the long term

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Speaker 1: the fact that they're a pariah nation. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that that bites and that's going to be a problem

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Speaker 1: for them. But in terms of sustaining you know, this

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Speaker 1: horrible status quo where people are just dying and dying

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Speaker 1: and dying and nothing seems to really change, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'm afraid that they can't sustain that.

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Speaker 2: The only thing that I have going forward is that

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Speaker 2: Trump hates bb because he congratulated Joe Biden on the election.

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Speaker 2: So it could be his own pettiness gets in the way.

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Speaker 2: Remember he's attacked him in every interview that he's been

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Speaker 2: given on the state of Israel.

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Speaker 1: I can't see him going against Israel. I mean, think

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Speaker 1: think of how many of his major donors are extremely

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Speaker 1: pro Israel. Think of where the Republican Party establishment is.

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Speaker 1: Think of the comments that he's made about you know,

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Speaker 1: he's very clearly in the camp now Biden hasn't done

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Speaker 1: enough for Israel, So I just I can't see that. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of the Israeli political pressure, again,

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Speaker 1: it's not like the Israeli.

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Speaker 3: Public opposes the war.

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Speaker 1: The rub is feeling accurately like Bebe doesn't actually care

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Speaker 1: about the hostages. He doesn't, you know, obviously they could

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Speaker 1: have had a hostage deal that could have been secured.

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Speaker 1: So perhaps that pressure ultimately amounts to something, But I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 3: He's a very wily operator.

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Speaker 1: He's you know, held onto power this long, and he's

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Speaker 1: certainly improved his prospects of being hang on being able

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Speaker 1: to hang onto power a lot longer. And then the

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Speaker 1: other question is like, wou would Benny Gantz or whoever,

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Speaker 1: really be any that much different aeof Galant, who's you know,

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Speaker 1: also facing arrest warrants from the Hague and it's the

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Speaker 1: one who announced the siege, and we're going to treat

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Speaker 1: him like human animals because that's what they are. He

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Speaker 1: is also considered a quote unquote moderate. So it's also

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Speaker 1: an open question if you did get a governmental change,

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Speaker 1: how much it would really amount to true.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. Like I said, I

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Speaker 3: hope you're right, I just said I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's move on to another significant development here.

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Speaker 1: You have three more countries, is sorry, Ireland, Spain, and

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Speaker 1: Norway which have now recognized the state of Palestine. They're

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Speaker 1: joining some it's now some eighty percent of the world

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Speaker 1: actually that does recognize the state of Palestine.

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Speaker 3: Of course, our nation.

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Speaker 1: Here, of course, not in Canada, and some other of

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Speaker 1: our closest followers also do not recognize the state of Palestine.

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Speaker 1: They had a joint press conference to announce this shift

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Speaker 1: in their diplomatic posture. Here's a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: Irish Prime Minister and what he had to say.

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Speaker 2: Last month.

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Speaker 4: I stood on these same steps with Prime Minister Sanchez

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Speaker 4: of Spain and we said that the point of recognizing

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Speaker 4: the state of Palestine was coming closer. That point has

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Speaker 4: now arrived. Today Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that

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Speaker 4: we recognize the state of Palestine. Each of us will

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Speaker 4: now undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect

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Speaker 4: to that decision and the lead up today's announcement. I've

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Speaker 4: spoken with a number of other leaders and counterparts, and

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Speaker 4: I'm confident that further countries will join us in taking

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Speaker 4: this important step in the coming weeks.

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Speaker 1: You have a whole Israeli freak ount over this action,

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Speaker 1: which is primarily symbolic but again contributes to that Israel

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Speaker 1: becoming a prior nation, Palestine becoming more recognized, more.

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Speaker 3: Accepted, etc.

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Speaker 1: You also have more European countries who are saying, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: we may have some quibbles with what the International Criminal

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Speaker 1: Court at the Hague is doing, but bottom line, we

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Speaker 1: support it. So if he becomes here and there's an

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Speaker 1: arrest warrant, we're going to arrest him. Let's put this

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Speaker 1: next one up on the screen. France and Germany, we're

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Speaker 1: the latest European nations to show support for the ICC

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Speaker 1: after their prosecutor applied for those arrest warrants. In a

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Speaker 1: statement Monday, France's foreign minister said that the decision over

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Speaker 1: whether to issue a.

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Speaker 3: Rest warrants arrested with the icy these judges. Quote.

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Speaker 1: France supports the International Criminal Court, it's independence, the fight

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Speaker 1: against impunity in all situations Germany, which has been They

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Speaker 1: describe a staunch ally of Israel. Certainly the case, describe

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Speaker 1: the court as a fundamental achievement of the international community.

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Speaker 1: They did express reservations that decision to apply for rest

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Speaker 1: warrants against both Israeli and Hamas leaders quotes give us

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Speaker 1: the false impression of equivalents. Nevertheless, Berlin reaffirmed its support

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Speaker 1: for the ICC quote Germany respects its independence and its

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Speaker 1: procedures like those of all other international courts.

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Speaker 3: Cyber I'm curious for your reaction to.

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Speaker 1: The significance of so many European countries saying like, listen,

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Speaker 1: if there are rest warrants, we are going to do

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Speaker 1: our duty.

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Speaker 2: That's going to be the most important one we will see.

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Speaker 2: In terms of the Irish nor what is it Ireland,

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Speaker 2: Norway and Spain. Yeah, it's a little bit, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, these are not top tier with great powers

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Speaker 2: on the continent. You would want France, Germany or any

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Speaker 2: of the other big economies that actually have a decent

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Speaker 2: amount of poll That hasn't happened yet. I will say

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Speaker 2: that the French Foreign Ministry decision is the most import

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Speaker 2: and one, and the German one as well, because they

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Speaker 2: specifically say this quote France supports the International Criminal Court,

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Speaker 2: it's independence and the fight against impunity in all situations,

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Speaker 2: basically saying there is no Israel carve out. Germany, though,

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Speaker 2: which has all those crazy laws on the books, says

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Speaker 2: that the court is a fundamental achievement of the international community,

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Speaker 2: and specifically though it does say that there has been

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Speaker 2: given a false impression of equivalents, but still affirms its

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Speaker 2: support for ICC. So I think what they are staking

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Speaker 2: out is an eventuality position. But some of the things

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Speaker 2: that you and I have talked about here before is

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Speaker 2: there's still some procedural hurdles there, you know, for Israel,

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Speaker 2: for Hamas, and there's still a lot of ways in

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Speaker 2: which they find their way out of it. And if

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Speaker 2: I had to guess, that's what they're trying to stake

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Speaker 2: out in terms of the decision, like if it eventually

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Speaker 2: does come to it. But they're going to be working

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes, especially with the Germans with some of

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Speaker 2: the language that was there.

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Speaker 1: There's going to be a real full courts. It was

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Speaker 1: already happening on the ICC. I mean, in the announcement,

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Speaker 1: the ICC prosecutor really chastise those I've seemed very much

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Speaker 1: directed at the American politicians who were trying to bully

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Speaker 1: and threaten them and suggest not only would they, you know,

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Speaker 1: sanction the ICC, which by the Biden administration is now

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Speaker 1: second they're open to as well, mister international law when

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Speaker 1: it came to Russia, a suddenly very different tone when

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Speaker 1: it comes to Israel, out and out suggesting sanctioning the

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Speaker 1: International Criminal.

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Speaker 3: Court that as well.

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Speaker 1: But the Republican letter suggested they would also sanction like

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Speaker 1: their family members, and that there would be aquo. It

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Speaker 1: was like mafia language. There'd be a price to pay,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So he was chastising them for

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Speaker 1: saying that. He also indicated, I know you and Ryan

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Speaker 1: covered this that some politician, possibly Lindsay Graham, because we

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Speaker 1: know he had spoken to him recently, said this is

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Speaker 1: just for.

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Speaker 2: You know, Africans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but Russian Africans.

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Speaker 1: And Russians says, not these, you know, our allies.

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Speaker 3: How dare you use?

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Speaker 2: But I think he's I actually think that's honest and true,

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Speaker 2: which is correct. I mean, I agree, but what it has.

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Speaker 3: Been and what it should be are two different things.

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Speaker 2: OCCA there is no such thing. This is this kind

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Speaker 2: of I've been wanting to talk about this. If we

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Speaker 2: go back to Nuremberg. Nuremberg happened because we conquered the

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Speaker 2: Nazis and basically put them on trial in collaboration with

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Speaker 2: the Allied power. Same with the Japanese. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: not the idea behind it, and the enforcement was that

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Speaker 2: we had them under full blown military occupation. Without that,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't exist. I mean, it's true the ICC the

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Speaker 2: United Nations is a tool of the Great Power nations.

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Speaker 2: That's why the UN Security Council exists. That's also why

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Speaker 2: to the China and Russia has not signed on to

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Speaker 2: the ICC or has not supported a lot of this

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Speaker 2: stuff with israel Is because China.

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Speaker 3: Does support this.

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Speaker 2: Actually we are Israel, right, but they supported on Israel.

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Speaker 2: But oh, we want to talk about Jinjang. No way,

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Speaker 2: that's never going to happen. And the Russians got they

437
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: got all these breakaway provinces right in Ukraine. They're like,

438
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,719
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do that. So again it's like

439
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 2: it's all fake, at least in my opinion.

440
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: But again, yeah, there's a difference between what it is.

441
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: Yea, you are not wrong in any way about what it.

442
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: Is and what it should be and the way our

443
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: politicians talk about it, right, because they certainly don't openly

444
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 1: talkalk about it as this selective tool of great power politics,

445
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: and not just with regard to the ICC, which obviously,

446
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,959
Speaker 1: you know, we're worried that those rules might apply to us,

447
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: which is why we're not a party to it. So

448
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: Lindsay Graham in a moment and some comments that he

449
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: made about that which was amusing. But you know, the

450
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: the grand idealistic notion that has been sold is that

451
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: we have these lines in the sand that you know,

452
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: we we said we're not we're going to try to

453
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: protect civilians, we're going to try to protect hospitals. We're

454
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: going to try to avoid allowing a genocide to unfold

455
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: before our eyes. We're going to have these certain rules

456
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: and standards and norms, and we're going to have these

457
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: international bodies to enforce them when the local governments fail.

458
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: Now has that actually been with of course not. Of

459
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 1: course it's been selective. Of Course they've been hypocritical. But

460
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: that's why you know, previously we're talking about whether this

461
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: legitimizes or delegitimatizes the ICC, And I think it's a

462
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: very fraught moment because in a sense.

463
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: The fact that the rules could apply to.

464
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: Bb neat Yahoo, that he could face arrest if he

465
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: goes to Paris again, that's profoundly legitimizing. That brings the

466
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: court closer to its stated principles and what it is

467
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: supposed to be, not what it's been, but what it's

468
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: supposed to be. On the other hand, there is a

469
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: real risk that you know, they try, that they do

470
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: issue the arrest warrants and then it doesn't change behavior

471
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter, and then everyone can sort of

472
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 1: thumb their knows at it.

473
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 3: So it's a moment of great peril.

474
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: But if they didn't issue the arrest warrants, then they're

475
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: already they're automatically delegitimized. Given the extent and the clear

476
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: nature of the atrocity, I.

477
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: Don't disagree, and I think really what this again is

478
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: a very big difference in worldview. I am happy that

479
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 2: this is happening. I want people to understand that their

480
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 2: quote unquote rules based international order is.

481
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: Not real that Babby, what's happening.

482
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: The destruction of the idea that it's just for Africans

483
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: and Russians is true. It's like the global international system

484
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: is a tool of the American Empire, which it all

485
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: just be honest about what we are doing here. I

486
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: prefer that we need bilateral relationships which are not in

487
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 2: the fakery of oh, well we have human rights and

488
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: that that's all really important, except whenever it's a barbarian

489
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 2: Saudis and then we need their oil or it's like anything.

490
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: Let's just be real about what we're all doing here,

491
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 2: let's ask.

492
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: I think that's station superior to the state of hypocrisy,

493
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: having an acknowledgment of.

494
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: The reality of the world.

495
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: I would prefer a world in which we actually did

496
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: have norms and standards that were enforced consistently or as

497
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: best as you know, as consistently as human beings can

498
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: be expected to, or civilians are protected, where genocide isn't

499
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: just allowed to unfold and we all just go, well,

500
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: they are a big power and they got a lot

501
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: of guns, so what are you going to do. I

502
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: guess the Palestinians just to have to, like, you know,

503
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: watch their kids get slaughtered. I would prefer to live

504
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: in a world where they actually lived up to the

505
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: norms Now, I think one step towards building that world

506
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: is exposing the previous hypocrisies, understanding what the actual realtion

507
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: is now, and trying to make it so that you

508
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: do have consistent application of the principles, which is again

509
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: why I think it's really important that this has been

510
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: applied to Israel, because it starts to build a more

511
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: consistent regime where even US allies can suffer some consequence

512
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: when they're blatant war criminals as being nine yaw.

513
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: Maybe I guess I just for me, it's about limiting principle.

514
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: Like for example, and this is going to sound real

515
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 2: hardh so clip it if you want to, But if

516
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: Russia was committing a straight up genocide, what would we

517
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 2: do about it? You know, like, should we militarily invade

518
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: a nuclear armed power if they were committing a genocide?

519
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,479
Speaker 2: I would say, no, I don't think it's worth it,

520
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: even though I think it's horrible. Sure, I think we

521
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: should bring to bear whatever we can, But there are

522
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: limiting principles of action we know in the global system.

523
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: And that's what I mean about being honest here. Yeah,

524
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 2: it's a nice world, you know, to be able to

525
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 2: think that some global body can impose rules, but that's

526
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: just not true. Like all of it comes back to

527
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: the force of power, and we are an empire. I

528
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: think we should be honest. I don't even think it's

529
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: necessarily a bad thing. You know, it works to our advance. Now,

530
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: it definitely works at the disadvantage of some. But the

531
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: hypocrisy is what drives a lot of other people crazy.

532
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 2: So us like kind of revealing. Yeah, it's like this

533
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: international body has no enforcement except against you know, anti

534
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: Western leaders. I'm like, yeah, that's a good thing. We

535
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: should we should sho people.

536
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 3: Should a good but people should It's not good.

537
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: But you know, we're at an interesting moment though, because

538
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: the unipolar world of you know, American superpower soul super

539
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: power status, it's done. It's over, it's gone. You know,

540
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: maybe we're hanging on to the last vestiges of it.

541
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: So now there's a real question about what is the

542
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: world that you know was built after that?

543
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 3: What does that look like?

544
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: And you see some inklings here of you know, South

545
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: Africa and Ireland in some of the smaller countries around

546
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: the world trying to actually pick up you know, the

547
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: mantle of the idealistic notion of what the US had

548
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: laid out before, and are trying to create more legitimacy

549
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: in this system that has previously existed. There, you know,

550
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: the odds are stacked against it working. You know, the

551
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: odds are very much in favor of Okay, Well, in

552
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: the new order, you'll just have this push and pull

553
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: between you know, who takes control of these institutions and

554
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: how do they use it to their advantage, et cetera,

555
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: et cetera.

556
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: But that's not inevitable.

557
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: So in any case, that's why I think this is

558
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: incredibly important, and why I think it matters that you

559
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: have France and Germany saying no, we actually aren't, even

560
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: though this is uncomfortable for us, and we don't really

561
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: like that you're charging baby and you're charging ams to

562
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: you know, we think that's a false equiment.

563
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 3: That's totally complete bullshit.

564
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: But anyway, put that aside, that they're still saying no,

565
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: we support it, and if they come here, we will

566
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,719
Speaker 1: arrest them. So that's not there's no enforcement mechanism. I mean,

567
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: that's real right. Bbe likes to travel internationally.

568
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: Sure, Israel prides.

569
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: Itself on being this you know, global high tech country,

570
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: very dependent on foreign direct investment. Their economy is already

571
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: taking a huge hit and their stance in the world.

572
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: You know, they're starting to realize like, oh, even though

573
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: we don't see it this way, people are on the

574
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: world see us as equivalent to humas.

575
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 3: Those things do.

576
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: Actually matter in the long term and can constrain behavior,

577
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: because it really does limit you as a country if

578
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: you're you know, the pariah nation, separated and cut off

579
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: from everybody else.

580
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: To be clear, I do agree with you, and that's

581
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 2: why I think for Israel they should be carrying themselves

582
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: different because they're not a global nuclear arm superpower and

583
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: the chief empire in the world, so they have to

584
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: be you know, consider of whatever. But let's be real,

585
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: like we can do whatever we want. Basically. I mean,

586
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: we invaded a country, Iraq, destroyed it, spent seven trillion

587
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: dollars and we survived. That's honestly nuts, especially when you

588
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: consider Afghanistan. That's part of the thing that was in

589
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: the Lindsay Graham thing. But the example, I guess I'm

590
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: just trying to get to, yes, we are, and I

591
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: agree that the unipolar moment is over. I think that

592
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: will actually make the world safer, and it will make

593
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: us safer as well, because we have had tremendous hubris,

594
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: like the ability to invade Iraq at Afghanistan and suffer

595
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: no consequence. I think that the rise of actual balance

596
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: brings us to a place where we have to mutually

597
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: respect both the great power nations of Russia, of India,

598
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: of China, of the global and especially growing GDP in Asia.

599
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: All of that will make us safer because we have

600
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: to recognize our own limitations. And the problem with the

601
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: quote unquote rules based international order, which is basically a

602
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: template for American dominance of the world, is that we

603
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: talk out of one side of our mouth and then

604
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: we do something that is actually to our benefit. I

605
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: would rather us just deal honestly with the world, which

606
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: in a multipolar system, you do have to start operating

607
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: more like that and not be blatantly hypocritical as we

608
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: have done throughout the eighties and nineties and the mid

609
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: two thousands. So anything, I think we're returning to a

610
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: more balanced system. I think the Israelis in the long

611
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 2: term will suffer dramatically, specifically because they no longer have

612
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: the unipolar umbrella that protected them in the Yon Poor

613
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: moment and others.

614
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: And they assume they only need the United States. And

615
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: in the short term that may be true. But over

616
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: the medium to long term, if there are any Palestinians

617
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: who survived this moment, then you know, I think it'll

618
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: face it will be a much different political diplomatic landscape.

619
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: So in terms of the Israeli reaction and whether they

620
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: think that these actions matter, you know, we've already brought

621
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: you Babie's response to the potential ICC or usmore call

622
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: them one of the greatest anti Semites of all time

623
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: or so, I mean, just completely unhinged insanity. Let's put

624
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: this up on the screen. So Israel Is saying they

625
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: are now not going to transfer much needed funds to

626
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: the Palestinian authority as punishment for three European countries recognizing

627
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: a Palestinian state. So the fact that you had Ireland,

628
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: Spain and Norway SI we're going to recognize a Palestinian state.

629
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: The Israelis are.

630
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: Then punishing the Palestinian people for this stance of the

631
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: European countries, which obviously makes no sense and is wrong

632
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: and in morall illegal. Decision came from the psycho Finance

633
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: minister Bezaliel Smotrich, far right leader opposes Palestinian sovereignty, threatened

634
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: to push the Palestinian government, they say, into a deeper

635
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: fiscal crisis. He said in a statement he'd informed Net

636
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: and Yahoo he would no longer send those tax revenues

637
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: to the authority which administers part of the West Bank

638
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: and close cooperation with Israel. So the Palaana Authority already

639
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: in really dire financial straits. There have been these ongoing negotiations.

640
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: Basically Israel collects tax revenue on their behalf. PA is

641
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: effectively collaborators with the Israeli government. Some of that tax

642
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: revenue goes to Gaza, and so there's been this ongoing

643
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: dispute about whether the tax revenue was still going to

644
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: come to the PA.

645
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: They seemed to.

646
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: Work on a deal where a third party was going

647
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: to hold on to the portion that's supposed to go

648
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: to Gaza and the rest of it was going to

649
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: go to the West Bank. You also have real economic

650
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: problems because a lot of the Palestinians who previously were

651
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: had work permits and we're working in Israel those you know,

652
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: it's become much more difficult and much more limited the

653
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: number of Palestinians being allowed in so huge economic crisis there,

654
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: and this will obviously it could actually cause the PA

655
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: to completely collapse because they're in these sort of dire

656
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: financial straits. The US reacted to this negatively, but it's

657
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: not like they're threatening to actually do anything. Jake Sellovan,

658
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: we could put this up on the screen, said quote.

659
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: I think it's wrong on a strategic basis because withholding

660
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: funds destabilizes the West Bank, It undermines the search for

661
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: security and prosperity for the Palestinian people, which is in

662
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: Israel's interest. And I think it's wrong to withhold funds

663
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: that provide basic goods and services to innocent people. But again,

664
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, empty words, no indication that there will be

665
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: any action, so basically meaningless on that front, and to

666
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: the point of sacerrinized previous conversation about whether or not

667
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: the Hague should apply those rules of international law should

668
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 1: also apply to our war criminals, which I very much

669
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: think that they do. Lindsey Graham had an interesting moment

670
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: where he came out said they can come for Israel,

671
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: they could comfort us. Next didn't get exactly the response

672
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: that he was expecting because there were a bunch of

673
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: anti war activists in the room who would be happy

674
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: to see our own war criminals locked up as well

675
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: as say to listen to how that went down.

676
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 5: So we hopefully together we'll find a way to rest

677
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 5: our displeasure with the ICC coasts. If they'll do this

678
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 5: to Israel, we're next. This group tried to come after

679
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 5: our soldiers. Yeah, you can clap all you want to.

680
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 5: They tried to come after our soldiers in Afghanistan, but

681
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 5: reason prevail. So at the end of the day here,

682
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 5: what I hope to happen is that we level sanctions

683
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 5: against the ICC for this outrage, to not only help

684
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 5: our friends in Israel, but protect ourselves over time, Miss Secretary,

685
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 5: your statement yesterday was excellent. The president statement was excellent.

686
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 5: Senator Schumer's statement on the floor was excellent about the

687
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 5: outrage here. They have destroyed the notion of complementarity. They

688
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 5: have misled people in the United States sentence about their intention,

689
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 5: and they shall and will pay a price. Miss Secretary,

690
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 5: I appreciate what you've said. Is now time for us.

691
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: To act, so real, real pipartisan moment there shouting out

692
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: all the Democratic leaders who he agrees with with when

693
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: it comes to the ICC. But it reminds me Sager

694
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 1: of BB and his response. He was like, this would

695
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: be like locking up Bush for nine to eleven, and

696
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people were like, hmmm, I'll take that deal.

697
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 2: I hate to say it. I do agree with Lindsay.

698
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: I mean only in the fact of in terms of

699
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: that's why I don't support multi lateral organizations like this

700
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: having jurisdiction over US. What annoys me always, and this

701
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: is I think the difference is. I hate the conflation

702
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 2: of Israel, a basically client state of the United States

703
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: with a tiny population, a tiny GDP number fifty on

704
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: our trading list, being equated to a great superpower. I

705
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: think they should be understood of the vassal state that

706
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: they are. It drives me crazy that they assume, you know,

707
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 2: some great power status when they get away with the

708
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 2: things that great powers are supposed to get away with,

709
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: even though they have nothing to their name except being

710
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: under and entirely by the US security umbrella. But again,

711
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: this is just you know, some I don't believe in

712
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: multilateralism really period.

713
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: So there should be no, uh, no consequence for being

714
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: a war criminal.

715
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 2: The consequence is that we are an.

716
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: African or a Russian. In the words of Lindsay.

717
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: I would say, do I think that Bush should be

718
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: in jail for nine to eleven and for the response? Yeah?

719
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: Do I think there we should let the Hague or

720
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: any something like that do that. No. I think that

721
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: the democratic check of our own country is the one

722
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: that should take care of it. And the reason why

723
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: it still it didn't work out right exactly.

724
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 3: I mean that's and that's been weird. That's the idea.

725
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: Power to the Hague presidents ludicrous, Yeah, are going to happen.

726
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: I think there's should I think there should be accountability.

727
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: No, no great respecting nation should ever have. It would

728
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: be fine with me to a multi gearge W.

729
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: Bush, Dick Cheney, Hillary Clinton, you can throw you know,

730
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: Barack Obama for the drone program. Totally fine with the

731
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: Hague having actual enforcement mechanisms. And you know, clearly, uh,

732
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of people who agree

733
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: with the sense that things like genocide.

734
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 3: Should be off the table, that there should.

735
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: Be some sort of body and accountability that doesn't just

736
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: rely on if your justice system is you know, basically

737
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: beholden to the political class and not going to have

738
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: any sort of consequences for domestic war criminals.

739
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there should be.

740
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: It would be nice to live in that world. Yeah,

741
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 2: that's realistic, That's what I'm saying. But it's not going

742
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: to happen, so we might as well just leave it

743
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: off the table. It's like, okay, well, are the Russians

744
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 2: going to voluntarily hand over Vladimir Putin?

745
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 3: No, but I would not have.

746
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: Ever thought that it was a possibility in my lifetime.

747
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: Then Israeli prime minister would be facing arrest at the Hague, Like.

748
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: It's almost preposterous to me. He is France and Germany.

749
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 2: You're saying, no arrest, You'll still continue live in Israel,

750
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: probably hang out here and he's a Pizzy's how much

751
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh NATed?

752
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can't say like it doesn't matter at all.

753
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: I mean again, you would have said a year ago,

754
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: there's no way the ICC whatever issue probably warrant against

755
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: an Israeli prime minister. It's a world that's not going

756
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: to happen, So why even pretend let's just acknowledge this

757
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: is all fake. Well, guess what the world does exist now?

758
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: That world does exist where there's an arrest warrant that's

759
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: going to be issued for bb Night now who and

760
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: go off galant and continuing investigations, and they might be

761
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: found guilty.

762
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: Of the genocide.

763
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: So, you know, just because things seem unlikely, which I

764
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: would have said the same thing, very unlikely, likely, impossible,

765
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it is completely off the table. I

766
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: think we should still advocate for the world that we

767
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: would ideally want to live in. And that world, for me,

768
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: is one in which the language about human rights protecting

769
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: civilians is not meaningless bullshit, that it actually matters, that

770
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: it's applied consistently across the board, whether you're from a

771
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: quote unquote great power or not.

772
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the way to achieve that world

773
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: is not through multilateralism, fakery and rhetoric. It's through basically

774
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: achieving a balance where it's in everybody's interest and to

775
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: pursue exactly that. So that's why I talk in the

776
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 2: language of interest. I don't think it's in Israel's interest

777
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: to be prosecuting the war itself. Right, Talking in the language

778
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 2: of morality eight can missus nobody and be you know, basically, Okay,

779
00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: let me just on.

780
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: That point about Israel's interests. Part of why it's not

781
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: in quote unquote Israel's interest is because of these multilateral institutions.

782
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 2: That's not true.

783
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: Anything that you can't say, that's not part of why

784
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: this is a problem for them, because the reason they're

785
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: becoming more and more of a pariat state is because

786
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: of the plausible genocide, is because of unfinding reasonable grounds

787
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: that there's a genocide, is because of the arrest warrants,

788
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: because France and Germany are saying we'll arrest b B

789
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: if he comes on our soil. Because you have more

790
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: countries that are saying, like, screw you, this is outrageous,

791
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: We're going to recognize a palace.

792
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: There was no multilateralism in the nineteen hundreds when the

793
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 2: Ottomans slaughtered a million Armenians. But in the world where

794
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: people can have photographs and real life like accounts of

795
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: what's happening, they became a pariah state and they eventually

796
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: crumbled because of that. That's my point is that you

797
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: caslaughtering people. It's not multilateralism which stops it. It's the

798
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: inherent morality of mankind who looks at that and be like, oh,

799
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 2: this is horrible. Same with the aversion to the Japanese

800
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: Empire and its slaughter of Chinese and Korean civilians in

801
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: World War Two. It wasn't the League of Nations of

802
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: the UN. It was good meeting. People were like, this

803
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: is horrible, We're going to do something about it. Same

804
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: with the Germans and.

805
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 6: Not multi extect again full blown military occupation so absent

806
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 6: that and literal subjugation of the entire people and the

807
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 6: nation in some sort of rule where you know, we

808
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 6: have arrest warrants where somebody can't travel to Paris.

809
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, well, you know, there's not a lot

810
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 2: that's going to be happening here. I'm not diminishing all

811
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: of the importance of it. I do think it's going

812
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 2: to have an effect.

813
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: But that's it's trying to get you to acknowledge, is

814
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: that it's not nothing.

815
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: Is that multi lato multilateralism in the nineteen hundreds For

816
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 2: the British population to be outraged about what was happening

817
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: with the Ottomans, right, you just needed people to be like,

818
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 2: this is horrible, We're going to do something about it.

819
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: Or I'm trying to think there's there's a lot of examples. Basically,

820
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: since the invention of modern media and photography being able

821
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: to go wide, all mass civilian slaughter has always been

822
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: met with basically a horrified population in the rest of

823
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: the world, and eventual for a military action, you didn't

824
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 2: necessarily need multilateralism to do anything about it. Now, they

825
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: thought that it would be a fix for it, but

826
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 2: obviously I think that was incorrect, and we've seen that.

827
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: We saw it all fall apart during the Cold War

828
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 2: whenever it became in the interest to ignore certain things.

829
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: But you know, given back to power itself is the

830
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: only fixed for us.

831
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: Even as broken as these even as you know, hypocritical

832
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: and broken as these multilateral institutions certainly are, I would

833
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: really submit that, you know, the fact that we actually

834
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: have a report that the ICJ may issue actual ceasefire

835
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: injunction is from that Israel Hay.

836
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's been credible in the past.

837
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: I'm not that familiar with the outlet, but it's an

838
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: Israeli news outlet, and apparently ICJ South Africa had come

839
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: back to them and said, listen, look what's happening, and Robbie,

840
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: you really need to issue an injunction that it looks

841
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: like may happen on Friday, We'll be watching for it,

842
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: et cetera. But even the fact that there was this

843
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: determination that a genocide was potentially that it was plausible

844
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: that the Palestinians' rights were being violated and that genocide

845
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: was occurring, even that has had an impact just in

846
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: terms of think about American political conversation. You know, to

847
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: your point about the population's revulsion mattering, you now have

848
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: a plurality of Americans who say this is a genocide.

849
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: You now have a clear majority of Biden voters, Democrats

850
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: who say this is a genocide. I don't think that

851
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: happens if you don't have this sort of international legendacy

852
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: of putting that on the table. That really furthered that conversation.

853
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: Now with that ICC arrest warrants, right, Phoebe's not excited

854
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: about the fact that he can't travel internationally anymore, that

855
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: his life is personally, you know, curtailed. What that means

856
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: for him and his family and his son, and the

857
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: way he's viewed.

858
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: Israelis a nation is.

859
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: Not excited about the fact that they feel there, you know,

860
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: correctly being seen as like on a level with Hamas

861
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: around the world. They're not happy about that. I'm not

862
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: saying it's an end. I'll be all at this point.

863
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: But even now, even in the state of hypocrisy and

864
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: brokenness of this institution, of these institutions, they still are

865
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: having some impact. And so I don't I just don't

866
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: think you can deny that or deny the possibility that

867
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: they could be improved, that this could be actually a

868
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: step of creating more legitimacy where they actually matter more.

869
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: It can strain behavior more.

870
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: And why I say, I'm not saying it had zero impact.

871
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 2: I just pointed this. What's going to be more impactful

872
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: the United States, the great power of the world pulling

873
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: weapons from Israel, or the ICJ. That's that's it.

874
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: But I don't see those things as disconnected, because with

875
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: Biden it has certainly created That's part of why you

876
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: got this like little temporary pause. That's part of why

877
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: they look increasingly ridiculous trying to defend, you know, even

878
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: complying with their own law, with our own laws, like

879
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: the Layy Act. Part of what has put them in

880
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: a difficult position and has perhaps made it unsustainable, to

881
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: use your word from earlier, is that you have these

882
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: you know, now you're shipping bomb still criminal. Now you're

883
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: shipping bombs to a country that's plausibly doing a GEM

884
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: site is creating more political pressure on.

885
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 2: I would posit it as much more just the straight

886
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 2: up images coming out of Gaza, and probably domestic political

887
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: pressure more than ICC IC.

888
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 1: But I'm not saying but I'm not saying that stuff

889
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I'm saying they build on each other and

890
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: it's nothing, nothing, exactly nothing that I.

891
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: Think you're confusing me saying it doesn't matter at all.

892
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that the primacy of power and

893
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: military force will always preempt multilateralism, which is why I

894
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: think multi latism is stupid and mostly doesn't work. And

895
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: especially people who put way too much faith in institutions

896
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 2: like the ICGA, the ICC, or the United Nations or whatever,

897
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: NATO or any of these other things. These are just constructs.

898
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 2: They're a part.

899
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: Like who else are we.

900
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: Supposed to put faith in. It's clearly not the US government.

901
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: Well, then we should try to change in US government,

902
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 2: because they're the only force that can really do We

903
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: and maybe four or five other nations in the world

904
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: are the only ones with the capacity to change anything.

905
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: So I care a lot about our government, but I

906
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: wouldn't put any stock in the UN or any of

907
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: these other places, because in the long run, our hour

908
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 2: future is always going to happen.

909
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: You keep shifting them.

910
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm not saying they don't matter, and then

911
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: you're like, they don't matter, they don't matter.

912
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 3: Why would you.

913
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: Put You said I would don't put any stock in

914
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: the UN. That would indicate like it's completely meaningless, it

915
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, It doesn't help to constrain or drive any

916
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: sort of behavior at all. And I just don't think

917
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: that's an accurate picture of the world. You can say absolutely,

918
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 1: of course, it would be more impactful if Joe Biden,

919
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: if we pulled our support, it'd be.

920
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 3: Over, There's no doubt about it.

921
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: Part of what is building the pressure that could result

922
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: in some sort of a shift, and has already resulted.

923
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 3: I mean again, Pelosi.

924
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: Signing onto a letter saying we maybe should condition aid

925
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: to Israel, Chuck Schumer calling for BB to be pushed out.

926
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: These are things that we're not even on the table

927
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: before that, even in our own cramped, bought and paid

928
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: for politics are now on the table. Part of it

929
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: is it's not the whole, but part of it is

930
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: the judgment of those multilateral institutions. So you can't say

931
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: that you should put no stock in them and it's

932
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: meaningless and it doesn't matter at all. You can say

933
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: you don't think it should matter, and they should just

934
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: go away and we should just focus on great power politics.

935
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: But I just don't think it's an accurate picture of

936
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: the world to say these things haven't mattered at all.

937
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: I'll revise and say it is marginal at best in

938
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: my opinion, especially with respect to the US, all US

939
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 2: actions thus far, I don't think it's been dictated largely

940
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: by these multilateral revulsion or anything. It's been domestic politics,

941
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: and it's been the actual state of play inside of

942
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: Israel and or US interests in the actual region. Like

943
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe spending a billion dollars in a

944
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: single day to protect a bunch of people who struck

945
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: in Iranian embassy and then suddenly, you know, have to

946
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,919
Speaker 2: claimed the right of self defense. Yeah, that's always again,

947
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 2: I think that's where it really does come from. Now,

948
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: maybe you know, Biden and all of them have been

949
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: moved by this, but considering that they immediately come out

950
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: and blast the organization and do me ticket Seriously, I

951
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: don't see a lot of evidence for it.

952
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 3: Clearly, the Israelis feel that these things are.

953
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: And they should because they're not a great power. They're

954
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: not a superpower. Right.

955
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: But again, if you're saying, you know, it doesn't matter

956
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: at all, like there's two players who have the most

957
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: impact here, the US and Israel. Now, I do think

958
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: that these decisions have really shaped the conversation. That's but

959
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: you can now say, you know, the word genocide was

960
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 1: used on MSNBC. Again, a majority of Biden Varcitos jumps.

961
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: These things were not were fringed that you could barely say,

962
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: you couldn't say it right very recently, and that has

963
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: helped to me in.

964
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: St So it's pretty sure forty percent of some people

965
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: say genocide way before ic C, right, but don't need

966
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 2: the ICC to say.

967
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: Even if you dismiss, oh, this has no impact on

968
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: US public opinion, that has no impact of the Biden administration,

969
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: et cetera. Even if you acknowledge it has impact on Israel,

970
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: which I think is very clear, then it still has impact.

971
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: Okay, So the reason I say, the reason the difference

972
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 2: is that Again, small nations who don't have the capacity

973
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: to actually have freedom of action, yeah, they should care.

974
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 2: Any small nation should care. Yeah, but a great power

975
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: like the US and this who I care about and

976
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 2: who I'm thinking of in terms of our action. No,

977
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter for US really at all. Now again,

978
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: who matters more for Israeli action is the United States,

979
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: the UN, or even the European Union. It's going to

980
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: be the US. So the actual impact of US policy

981
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: is the basic soul determining factor of the state of

982
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: play inside of Israel, for their geopolitics, for their actions,

983
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: for the vast majority of the things that they do

984
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 2: in the world, for their number one trading partner, for

985
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: their securities.

986
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: I mean in a sense, yes, but we also see

987
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: that the Israelis have completely I mean at this point

988
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: we seem like we're the client state, Like they do.

989
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 3: Whatever the hell they want, regardless of the Biden.

990
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: Administrations, like concerns et cetera, et cetera. So having an

991
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: impact on them, like that's they're the actual center of

992
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: gravity with this, since Biden's society is just going to

993
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: let do the bear hug and let them do whatever

994
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: they do.

995
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: That is true and that is because we have a

996
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: foolish president who has subjugated our not just president, our

997
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: political system has subjugated our interest to a country of

998
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: eleven million people, our number fifty trading partner and all

999
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: of that. So I would not disagree on that front.

1000
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 3: Well, but that is just because we can end on

1001
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 3: that point to embrace.

1002
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: Our empire staff. And if we did that, we would

1003
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: be better off. Okay, we had a great.

1004
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: Ticket to talk about one of our ineffectual efforts here

1005
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: with regard to Gaza. More patheticness from Joe Biden. The

1006
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: whole peer situation, let's get to it. Join us now

1007
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: to break down the whole peer situation is the newly

1008
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: independent Ken Clippenstein, fantastic journalist covering national security in particular.

1009
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 3: Great to see you, Ken, see you man, Hey guys,

1010
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 3: good to be with you. Before.

1011
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: First question, where can people follow you? How can they

1012
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: support you? Always do fantastic work, continue to get bombshell

1013
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: scoops that the mainstream media can't get their hands on,

1014
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: even in newly independent status.

1015
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: So where can people follow you in support?

1016
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 7: Check me out on substack.

1017
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 8: That's Kenklippenstein dot substack dot com.

1018
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 1: All right, So ken, let's put this latest report up

1019
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: on the screen. Apparently, as of this writing, none of

1020
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: the food aid that moved through the Gaza peer has

1021
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: actually made it to Palestinians. So tell us what this

1022
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: little peer situation was all about and what is going

1023
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: wrong thus far.

1024
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, so, the Bidy administration refuses to work with UNRA,

1025
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 8: the UN agency that provides aid to the Palestinian territories,

1026
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 8: Gaza in particular, and because of that, you know, that

1027
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 8: institution is one of the only ones that has the

1028
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 8: breadth of skill, the resources, the experience and the relationships

1029
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 8: on the ground in Gaza to be able to scale

1030
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 8: that aid. So what ends up happening is the administration

1031
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 8: finds itself in a very awkward position where it wants

1032
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 8: this frankly pr stunt of being able to say, Hey,

1033
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 8: look at all this great stuff we're doing, even though we're not,

1034
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 8: you know, seriously suspending support to the Israeli military. And

1035
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 8: so they're stuck with things like humanitarian aid drops from

1036
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 8: airplanes that don't reach form many people and then trying

1037
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 8: to create this aid peer, which without the help of

1038
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 8: an institution like UNRA, they're stuck relying on individual NGOs

1039
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 8: And if you look at the public messaging that the

1040
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 8: Press Secretary and Deputy Press Secretary of the Pentagon of

1041
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 8: putting out over the last several weeks running up to this,

1042
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 8: they couldn't answer who they're going to actually use to

1043
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 8: distribute the aid. And they were asked this repeatedly every

1044
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 8: time they had to punt the question because they don't

1045
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 8: have an answer to it, because there is no NGO

1046
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 8: level institution that is going to be able to distribute

1047
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 8: this at scale.

1048
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: Right and Ken, what do we know right now about

1049
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 2: the risk to US forces that are involved, about what

1050
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 2: has happened and the cost now that has come at

1051
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: the result of this boondoggle.

1052
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's one of the most interesting and undercovered parts

1053
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 8: of the story. I think it's pretty well appreciated the

1054
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 8: problems with being able to distribute at scale. But as

1055
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 8: soon as this thing was announced, I started hearing very

1056
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 8: early on from service members that this is a risky

1057
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 8: proposition for the Biden administration. Now, the administration is huge

1058
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 8: messaging that there are going to be no boots on

1059
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 8: the ground. That's a little misleading because they're going to

1060
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 8: use a lot of military contractors and they already have

1061
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 8: in In addition to that, troops are moving some of these

1062
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 8: resources and having set up to peer initially, but the

1063
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 8: idea is they're not actually going to be operating on

1064
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 8: the ground, so who they need to operate instead. In

1065
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 8: large part has been reliance on the IDF to be

1066
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 8: able to set things up. There's been the IDEF has

1067
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 8: been inconsistent in saying that they would support it, saying

1068
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 8: that they're not going to support it. But in any case,

1069
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 8: there's a logistics there's an idea of logistics facility right

1070
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 8: next to the right next to the a peer, which

1071
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 8: is a legitimate military target under you know, the rules

1072
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 8: of war, and indeed has been a target of fighters

1073
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 8: as recently as the last several weeks. So they're legitimate

1074
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 8: military targets right next to this peer, you know, not

1075
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 8: just hamas but other military groups able to operate in

1076
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 8: the area. And so the concerns race to me privately

1077
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 8: by service members and now to some extent publicly by

1078
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 8: think tanks. Such seems like a really legitimate thing to

1079
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 8: be worried about. Is the US getting a bigger footprint

1080
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 8: in this and putting those contractors at risk as I.

1081
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: Can, I won't be the first to point out the

1082
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,720
Speaker 1: total insanity of this whole boondoggle, because you've got miles

1083
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: and miles thousands of AID trucks lined up at the

1084
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: border into the Gaza Strip that just aren't being allowed in.

1085
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: So you know, this peer is not a solution to

1086
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: the AID problem, but pressuring these Raelis to actually allow

1087
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: that AID to enter the Gaza Strip is a solution.

1088
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 1: So what can you tell us about the overall aid situation,

1089
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: the level of humanitarian crisis? And also, you know, I

1090
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: sort of go back and forth. Is this whole peer

1091
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 1: situation some expensive, dangerous, stupid virtue signal basically to try.

1092
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,959
Speaker 3: To persuade disaffected Biden.

1093
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: Voters that you know, no, we really do care about

1094
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: Palestinian life, Or is there a more nefarious goal here

1095
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: because we've also seen BBE talking about, hey, maybe we

1096
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: can use this peer for our ethnic cleansing project. We've

1097
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 1: also seen reporting that apparently the peer was Bbe's idea.

1098
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: So is it just the expensive, stupid boondoggle or do

1099
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: you see any indications that there's some other intent purpose

1100
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: for this thing?

1101
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 8: Well, I think that there are second order consequences of

1102
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 8: this facility that might not be intentional on the part

1103
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 8: of the administration, but which nonetheless can happen, which is

1104
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 8: to say another you know, uh spoke in the hub

1105
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 8: as it were, that the IDF is going to be

1106
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 8: interacting with and you know, I mentioned that logistics facility

1107
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 8: they are building up.

1108
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 7: You know, the war is not like in the movies.

1109
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 8: It is a logistical undertaking, and so you have to

1110
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 8: build things up and create infrastructure to be able to

1111
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 8: sustain that. And this might provide one more you know,

1112
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 8: spoken that hub for the.

1113
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 7: Israelis to be able to conduct these things.

1114
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 8: And so I think that's a legitimate concern, even if

1115
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 8: it's not the intent of the administration to do, which

1116
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 8: I personally from talking to people at State, get the

1117
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 8: impression that they just really need some kind of a

1118
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 8: win short of actually cutting off significant forms of military

1119
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 8: aid to the Israelis.

1120
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 7: Now, you know, there's been a lot of there's been.

1121
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 8: Much ado about the president's threat to suspend certain forms

1122
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 8: of aid. I do destory on that on my substack

1123
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 8: as well, showing that much of that aid is not

1124
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 8: going to be much of that much of those military

1125
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 8: weapons systems that are starting to come off cut off

1126
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 8: would not be felt for weeks or months and aren't

1127
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 8: even relevant to this stage of the conflict, which is

1128
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 8: in a very late stage. The kind of warfighting that

1129
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 8: they're going to conduct in REFA, it's going to look

1130
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 8: very different than.

1131
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 7: The air power heavy campaign at the beginning of the conflict.

1132
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 8: So it's really disingenuous for the administration to say, oh,

1133
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 8: look we're considering cutting off things in a way that

1134
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 8: would change their conduct in Refas. So all of that

1135
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 8: to say, they're in a position where they really need

1136
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 8: a win, to be able to bring to frankly, the

1137
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 8: entire democratic base and say hey, look we're doing something

1138
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 8: to help.

1139
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 7: And unfortunately, this is what they've they've settled on.

1140
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit more about where this

1141
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 2: thing goes from here. We've had zero aid, We've had

1142
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: what is about half a billion or so that has

1143
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 2: been invested. The Pentagon itself, on the record says that

1144
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 2: nothing is being delivered to Palestinians. Is there Are they

1145
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 2: going to ramp up this, you know, operation to try

1146
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: and get more aid in there, or is this just

1147
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: the best that we can expect.

1148
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 8: The most absurd part of this is that if you

1149
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 8: watch the press briefings, which I paid close attention to.

1150
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 8: I don't think they know what the next step is

1151
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 8: because they're frequently being asked the same questions and they go,

1152
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 8: we'll have an answer for you shortly, and we're currently

1153
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 8: we're in negotiations with the Israelis and contractors are trying

1154
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 8: to figure out So I don't have an answer to

1155
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 8: that because they don't have an answer for that, And

1156
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 8: that should tell you how seriously they're taking this entire thing.

1157
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 3: Wow. Absolutely insane. Ken, Thank you so much.

1158
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: Congratulations on the shift to Congratulations on.

1159
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 3: Your newly won independence.

1160
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: I know you'll be successful there, and thank you, of

1161
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,439
Speaker 1: course for breaking down your reporting this morning.

1162
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: Good to see you many thanks guys, my pleasures, our congratulations.

1163
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for watching. We really appreciate you. Now,

1164
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 2: don't forget you got to sign up for your Locals account.

1165
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 2: Just transfer over there because supercast is ending support at

1166
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 2: locals dot com. Otherwise. We will see you all on

1167
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: Tuesday because of a Memorial Day, so we'll see you

1168
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: in a few days.

1169
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 5: Speak to