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Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Sarah Burnett.

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Speaker 3: You can't prove that, Elizabeth, Elizabeth back again? Are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm good? How are you?

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Speaker 3: You know I've been good. I've been fair to Midland.

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Speaker 3: How about you? You look nice?

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you?

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Speaker 3: I like that. What is that? A turtle on your

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Speaker 3: wear on your head?

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Speaker 2: It's nice turtle turtle underwear on my head.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good. Yep, good. Look you know that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: I do sperm whales. Okay, No, no, like Elizabeth, I

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Speaker 3: don't mean. It's more to it than just the words

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Speaker 3: sperm whale. It's the sound, not of the words sperm whale.

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Speaker 3: It's the sound of the whales.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like, Okay, if you were underwater, like thirty or say

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Speaker 3: thirty feet underwater right in the ocean, you could hear

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Speaker 3: sperm whales singing and it would sound like they were screaming.

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Speaker 3: Really yeah, because apparently, hands down, the sperm whale is

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Speaker 3: the loudest animal on Earth. Like I was looking into it.

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Speaker 3: A sperm whale sings at two hundred and thirty decibels.

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Speaker 3: What yeah, now, for comparison's sake, an ambulance. Sorry, Okay,

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Speaker 3: jackhammer that's like one hundred and thirty decibels. Fireworks gunshots

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Speaker 3: that's like one hundred and forty decibels. A jet screaming

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Speaker 3: as it takes off, tearing the air, it's one hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty decibels. Meanwhile, there's sperm whale screaming death metal

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Speaker 3: into the ocean at two hundred and thirty decibels.

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Speaker 2: It's thirty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, did don't you know? Everyonder? Like the other whales

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Speaker 3: and dolphins are like, damn son, I'm swimming right here,

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Speaker 3: right here, man, come on, now.

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Speaker 2: They have voice I modulation, they have that rare condition.

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Speaker 3: I am a sperm whale. There's something I could know

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Speaker 3: about this. That's horrible, crazy, Like why do they need

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Speaker 3: to be so loud? Oh? All the heather whales are like, man, come,

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Speaker 3: let's go to the tropics, man. Sperm whales just got here.

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Speaker 2: That's ridiculous, right, that is very ridiculous. Do you know

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Speaker 2: what else is ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: No, I'm here for it though.

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Speaker 2: Conning people by cracking your knuckles. Ooh, this is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Crime A pod cast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists

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Speaker 2: and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free and

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent ridiculous. You damn right, I'm crazy, Zarin,

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Speaker 2: Crazy like a fox.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's why I can see your tail wagon.

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Speaker 2: Crazy like a fox, sister. What I'll explain myself later.

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Speaker 2: So first I want to take you on a little

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Speaker 2: trip down memory lane.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I love one of my favorite lanes.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember when we first started doing this show?

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Speaker 3: Okay, kind of, Yeah, totally, and you remember there? I

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Speaker 3: was there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you remember. We did did a bunch of episodes, yeah, totally. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we did one about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle aka

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Speaker 2: Conan the Barbarian.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, going hard against Udini and spiritualism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you remember that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. I think I told it.

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Speaker 2: We were so young back then. Yes, any Who's Spiritualism

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Speaker 2: For those who haven't listened to the earlier episode or

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Speaker 2: those like me with broken brain memory issues, Spiritualism is

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth century movement that claimed that awareness exists even

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Speaker 2: after death and that it's possible for there to be

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Speaker 2: contact between the living and the dead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. It was like the eighteen hundreds version of I'm

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Speaker 3: a psychic. I can talk to the dead, but they

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Speaker 3: have like a whole different like language for it. M

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Speaker 3: and we basically get the spirit mediums is like the

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Speaker 3: crossover point. The clairvoyant is.

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Speaker 2: A crossover Sorry, I had to take a sip of

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Speaker 2: water there everybody anyway, Yes, and there are people who

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Speaker 2: believe this today in varying.

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Speaker 3: Degrees to varying degrees and invarying languages.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we see it in a bit of a

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Speaker 2: different light now today most people see seances as tricks

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Speaker 2: and cons. Yes, no offense to people who are into them.

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Speaker 3: When there's a crystal ball and smoke rock on.

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Speaker 2: If you're into that. But whatever, most people think seers

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Speaker 2: who can talk to the dead are full of it,

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Speaker 2: unless you're poll Walnuts.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I'm dragging souls over here.

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Speaker 2: That's that's the episode of The Sopranos where poll Walnuts

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Speaker 2: goes and visits a medium and is completely in a

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Speaker 2: packed room of people. He's killed.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing to talk through the medium. She's like, take

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Speaker 3: your time.

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Speaker 2: So you have like a made man killer. Yes, with

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Speaker 2: all these ghosts falling him around.

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Speaker 3: Everywhere he's going, he's got solid dragon soul.

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Speaker 2: But in the eighteen hundreds, spiritualism wasn't like a roadside

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Speaker 2: carneia attraction for Rubes.

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Speaker 3: Now the president's wife was into it.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and Americans were quick to adopt it as

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Speaker 2: a way to reject Calvinist doctrine of predestination. It gave

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Speaker 2: them control over their own salvation, and they could communicate

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Speaker 2: directly with spirits who had already passed on, who could

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Speaker 2: kind of tell them how to Yeah, how are you

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Speaker 2: going to live your life? How are you going to

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Speaker 2: save your soul?

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Speaker 3: Health troubled moments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was seen as a way to merge the

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Speaker 2: unknowable aspects of human existence with the technology that was

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Speaker 2: just progressing by leaps and bounds. So not technology like

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Speaker 2: we mean today. I'm talking like industrial automation and the tellergram.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I used to tell my students that the stapler was

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Speaker 2: once technology, and they just kept ignoring me.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Do you ever tell him like the pencil us too,

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Speaker 3: and you get that far back it.

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Speaker 2: Really at one point. Yes, there was also at this

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Speaker 2: time fascination with the East and Orientalism.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, when they were japanning every.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was a sense of mystery applied to

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Speaker 2: the culture of East Asia that intoxicated people.

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Speaker 3: All they knew it just opened up. I mean after

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Speaker 3: the Civil War is basically you have Japan opening up

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Speaker 3: and then China.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and all they knew of these places were the

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Speaker 2: caricatures that were pedaled to them by European tastemakers. So

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Speaker 2: a part of that vibe that they were sold was

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Speaker 2: that the mysteries of the East involved fortune tellers, mystics.

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Speaker 2: People were immigrating over oceans in numbers never seen before

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Speaker 2: thanks to transportation technology. Everything was new and changing and

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Speaker 2: exciting and scary powered. Yeah, don't you think that the

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Speaker 2: rise in astrology interest today has some connection to the

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Speaker 2: whiplash speed of technological advancement we're living in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all the unknowables make people yearn for the noble,

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Speaker 3: and then they go, I'll take this person who just

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Speaker 3: says I can tell you the fuge well.

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Speaker 2: And we're spinning out here on Earth while the heavens

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Speaker 2: stay the same and keep scores. Kind of what works

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Speaker 2: for people, I guess.

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Speaker 3: And also it's interpretive. It's kind of like the tarot,

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Speaker 3: Like both astrology and the taro allow you to do

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Speaker 3: the interpretation. So yeah, you're subconscious just finding a way

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Speaker 3: to bubble up. So I think a lot of people

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Speaker 3: figured that out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, who knows. And it wasn't just the technological

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Speaker 2: advancement of the time. There's also scientific discovery times. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so like germ theory was established at this time eighteen

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Speaker 2: thirty nine, mid eighteen eighteen fifty eighteen sixty, the periodic

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Speaker 2: table of elements was constructed. Oh, incredible things were done

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Speaker 2: with electricities eron.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, my man Tesla.

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Speaker 2: Science was changing everything.

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Speaker 3: I gotta tell you a story about him sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm scared. Spiritualists saw themselves as a part of that,

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Speaker 2: as a part of this science that was changing the world.

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Speaker 2: They thought they were using science to prove the existence

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Speaker 2: of not only God, but the afterlife. Think about it.

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Speaker 2: For people learning about these new machines and concepts, none

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Speaker 2: of that made any more sense in being able to

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Speaker 2: talk to the dead.

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Speaker 3: Oh, if you suddenly have the gas powered lights, that's

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Speaker 3: a miracle. And then you get into electricity. Now you've

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Speaker 3: got things arcing and sparkan and you don't even know

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Speaker 3: what's going on.

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Speaker 2: So in the telegraph you can send these messages across

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Speaker 2: turn Yeah, so why not why not say, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: this cool new stuff is happening, why not throw in

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Speaker 2: spectral community.

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Speaker 3: Also, we can talk to the dead.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, why not? Well, there are the true believers,

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Speaker 2: those willing and ready to take advantage of true believers,

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Speaker 2: you know, so enter con artists. They gain the confidence

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Speaker 2: of an audience hungry for a connection to the next world.

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Speaker 2: Who wouldn't want to talk to someone who's.

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Speaker 3: Past unless they're family? I'm kidding, but yes, so like,

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Speaker 3: who wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Want to at least know that the person or in

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Speaker 2: my case dogs or dog.

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Speaker 3: Or dogs dogs, multiple dogs, all of the dogs.

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Speaker 2: Know, who wouldn't want to know that? You know, this

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Speaker 2: person that you loved is happy and can like watch

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Speaker 2: over you and stay with you.

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Speaker 3: Oh, if you could talk and send a message over

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Speaker 3: the Rainbow Bridge, I know you would be Yes.

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Speaker 2: And everyone's lost someone, you know, even if it's like

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Speaker 2: an ancestor that you never got to meet, and you

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Speaker 2: want to talk too. You know, I got great great

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Speaker 2: grandmas I never met. I'd love to talk to anyway.

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Speaker 2: Our human hunger for that connection is what leaves us open. Yes,

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Speaker 2: when you're hungry, you'll eat almost.

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Speaker 3: Anything good point, Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: In the rise of spiritualism came con artists who thought

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Speaker 2: of really clever ways, sometimes using that new science and

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Speaker 2: technology to dupe people into believing that they were a

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Speaker 2: conduit to the afterlife, and they would connect you for

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Speaker 2: a price, always for a price. I got a few

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Speaker 2: of these jokers here for you today.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 2: Let me just say that I can get a little

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Speaker 2: wu wu. Oh yeah, I'm not casting judgment. I think

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Speaker 2: you can get Yeah, you can.

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Speaker 3: Get believes all the time ghosts.

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Speaker 2: So I got three sassy gals who swam in the

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Speaker 2: wu wu. The Fox sisters.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you promised the Fox I did.

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Speaker 2: Leah was born in April eighth, eighteen thirteen. Margaretta was

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Speaker 2: born October seventh, eighteen thirty three, wow, twenty years later,

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Speaker 2: and Catherine was born March twenty seventh, eighteen thirty seven.

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Speaker 2: So there's a huge gap between Leah and the two sisters.

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Speaker 2: When Catherine was eleven and Margretta was fourteen, so this

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Speaker 2: is eighteen forty eight.

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Speaker 3: She practically raised her sisters.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean they had parents, I.

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Speaker 3: Know, but I mean, you know, it isn't you're an

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Speaker 3: older sibling if you're that much older.

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Speaker 2: I'm yes, just like a kind of like yeah, So

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Speaker 2: eighteen forty eight. They're living with their parents, John and

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Speaker 2: Margaret Fox in Hydesville, New York. So, Hydesville is basically

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Speaker 2: an intersection about thirty miles east of Rochester. The oldest sister, Leah,

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Speaker 2: she lived in Rochester and was married. Her married name

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Speaker 2: was Leah Foxfish, Leah Fox Fish, Badger, raccoon, dear stray cat.

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Speaker 2: She just picked what she saw to window. So anyway, Hydesville.

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Speaker 2: All that's there now is a historical marker and a

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Speaker 2: one room house with a display about the Fox sisters

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Speaker 2: in it.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, the.

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Speaker 2: Display looks like an elementary school science fair. Oh yes,

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Speaker 2: it's like it's got those three panel poster board things,

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Speaker 2: and there are portraits drawn in what looks like cran

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Speaker 2: I'm not kidding. And there's a dollhouse replica.

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Speaker 3: There's a third grade science fair.

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Speaker 2: It exactly looks like that.

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Speaker 3: How do I know this?

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Speaker 2: Did I fly to upstate New York for the day?

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Speaker 3: I imagining a Google tour? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Go yes, Google Earth.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: So the marker out on the lush grass that runs

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Speaker 2: along Hydesville Road reads the Fox Sisters. That's in all caps. Well,

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Speaker 2: the whole thing's in all caps. But I just like

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Speaker 2: the Fox sisters on this site. Events of March thirty first,

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Speaker 2: eighteen forty eight began. Sisters Maggie and Kate Fox's central

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Speaker 2: role in the origin of modern spiritualism. Oh wow, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's pretty presumptuous using their nicknames, right.

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Speaker 3: You know, maybe maybe they preferred that.

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Speaker 2: As I was saying, the family, well, the mom, dad,

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Speaker 2: and the two youngest girls. They lived in Hydesville in

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Speaker 2: eighteen forty eight. It's about to go down, Saron, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they lived in a farmhouse, right, and legend had it

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Speaker 2: at that time. Yeah, the farmhouse was haunted. Oh, March

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Speaker 2: thirty first, eighteen forty eight, that was the ghost.

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Speaker 3: I knew it, right, I know, yeah? You know me,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, that's a ghost.

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Speaker 2: Eighteen forty eight, March thirty first, April Fool's Eve.

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Speaker 3: Oh is that important? Back then?

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Speaker 2: Here I go on, Maggie and Kate, what the heck?

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Speaker 2: I'll act like I'm familiar with him too. Maggie and

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Speaker 2: Kate they ran to a neighbor's house and they said,

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Speaker 2: we hear weird noises in our house. All right, creepy girls.

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Speaker 2: It's like, in fact, we hear these noises every night

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Speaker 2: before we get out of bed.

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Speaker 3: Weird pre Victorian children.

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Speaker 2: Why are you telling us this? They told him that

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Speaker 2: they were pretty sure their place was haunted and that

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Speaker 2: there was like a ghostly entity trying to communicate with them.

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Speaker 2: The neighbor thinks the girls are full of it. I

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Speaker 2: with the neighbor, like, why are you telling me this?

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Speaker 3: Go home, Mags, you got to go.

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Speaker 2: But then he's like, Can'm going to go over and

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Speaker 2: check it out?

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Speaker 3: He's bored, There's not a whole lot to do. He's like,

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Speaker 3: the candle's almost out, and here I get it.

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Speaker 2: Because if it's real, he's witnessed an honest to goodness haunting.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 2: If it's bogus, he has plenty to talk about Over

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Speaker 2: a barrel of nails at the general store.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's got the best story of the season.

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Speaker 2: Those creepy little fox sisters came over and I'll tell

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Speaker 2: you what it was so weird and what he calls

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Speaker 2: the fox sisters the vixens? Do you think the guy

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Speaker 2: he came over it was over. Maggie and Kate jumped

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Speaker 2: into bed. Their mom was standing in the room.

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Speaker 3: So wait, wait, so these two teenage girls bring a

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Speaker 3: strange man. Back to the neighbor. Back to the house.

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Speaker 3: They hop in bad. The mom's standing there and what

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Speaker 3: are you doing here?

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Speaker 2: You know? The mom's like, well, go ahead, girls, So

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Speaker 2: she says out loud, now count five, and there's a pause,

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Speaker 2: and then everyone in the room hears five knocks, seemingly

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Speaker 2: coming from nowhere and everywhere, all at once. So they hear.

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Speaker 3: Five knocks, all right, five five.

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Speaker 2: So the neighbor looks a little freaked out.

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Speaker 3: Right, It was like, alright, what's going on here?

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Speaker 2: And he like looks around the room. He's trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out what could have produced the noise. The mom

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Speaker 2: then says, count to fifteen. I'm not going to knock

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Speaker 2: out fifteen.

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Speaker 3: You know that's a lot.

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Speaker 2: And you know what fifteen knocks?

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Speaker 3: Pretend horse counting? Yeah, go on, So mother.

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Speaker 2: Fox then she asks the neighbor, hey, buddy, how old

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Speaker 2: are you? And he goes thirty three thirty three knocks, okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: So by this time the neighbor is like, well spooked, he's.

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Speaker 3: He's impressed by numbers. He's very knocking.

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Speaker 2: Numbers are knocking. So he asked MoMA Fox and the

300
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Speaker 2: kids like, who is this injured spirit, Who's who's doing this?

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Speaker 2: And the girl say, mister split foot, who satan?

302
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Speaker 3: Oh, mister split the cloven host split foot? I got you?

303
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Speaker 2: Now if I'm the neighbor.

304
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going through the window.

305
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,400
Speaker 2: I just like plug my nose and pout.

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Speaker 3: Those two pre Victorian doll baby weird children. But the

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Speaker 3: devil's in their room knocking on the floor and their

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Speaker 3: mom's cool. But like under they'll good, I'm gonna sell

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Speaker 3: my farm. You guys want to buy, because I'm out

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Speaker 3: of here.

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Speaker 2: He runs right, he takes off, he gets.

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Speaker 3: And even if there's no devil, I don't want to

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Speaker 3: live next to those people who believe that the devil's there.

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Speaker 3: See either way, I don't want it.

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Speaker 2: Well, guess who else left?

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Speaker 3: The dad? The family?

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Speaker 2: The whole family abandoned the house. Okay, go to Would

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Speaker 2: you live in a haunted house?

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Speaker 3: Depends? Am I like living in the haunted house? That

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Speaker 3: like I was the one who discovered it or I

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Speaker 3: moved into the haunted house and I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 3: this is haunted. Like if I was like in the house, right,

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Speaker 3: I was the one who determined it was haunted and

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Speaker 3: it wasn't that like Oh, everyone knew. And I've now

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Speaker 3: moved into the local haunted house just to see what

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Speaker 3: it's like to live in the haunted house. Now I

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Speaker 3: ain't doing that.

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Speaker 2: Wait, so you wouldn't go if someone said live in

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Speaker 2: this house, PS, it's haunted, you'd like never know.

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Speaker 3: But if I was in the house and I discovered

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Speaker 3: it was haunted, hell, I might just, you know, keep

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Speaker 3: it up, because I was like, well, maybe the ghost

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Speaker 3: got something to say. It would have to get to

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Speaker 3: the point that the ghost wanted me out. Then I'd

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Speaker 3: be like, Okay, I'm out. Yeah, okay, fair right, that's rational.

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Speaker 3: We're talking ghosts.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Fox family had no interest in coexisting with

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Speaker 2: a ghost, you see, ration into it, so they abandoned

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Speaker 2: the house.

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Speaker 3: Poor neighbor gotta sell it though.

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Speaker 2: Well, they sent the girls to live with Leah in Rochester.

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Speaker 2: And Rochester at the time was a hotbed of religious activity,

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Speaker 2: including Millerism, and that's the precursor to the Seventh day Adventist.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know Millerism.

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Speaker 2: Well, not a lot of people do, there, I didn't

346
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Speaker 2: until I looked this up. Word about the spooky Fox

347
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Speaker 2: sisters spread, as well as rumors about the farmhouse.

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Speaker 3: So that one's got a big mouth.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he told everybody.

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Speaker 3: He went right to the.

351
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Speaker 4: Everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah he's and then you start talking. One of the

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Speaker 2: rumors was that a pedlar, like a little salesman guy.

354
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Speaker 3: Yeah, guy shows up with a bag of stuff and

355
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Speaker 3: unfolded on your porch. Is that you do you like

356
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Speaker 3: to it's a dented pan.

357
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Speaker 2: That the pedlar had been murdered in the house five

358
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Speaker 2: years prior.

359
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Speaker 3: So, so it's the ghost of the pedlar.

360
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,400
Speaker 2: Yes, enter Amy and Isaac Post. All right, let's take

361
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,160
Speaker 2: a break and we come back. We'll learn more about

362
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:21,040
Speaker 2: this gruesome teosom. Hello, hey, Elizabeth Dett what you're doing girl,

363
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 2: I'm welcoming the spirits. Hello, welcome fox sisters. They communicated

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Speaker 2: with the spirit.

365
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 3: I'm still looking around. I'm like, look, Wayne, I.

366
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 2: Can be able to see him. Oh okay, let to

367
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 2: start a knocking rumor of a man murdered in a farmhouse. Pedlar, Yeah, pedlar,

368
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 2: he's on bicycle. Amy and Isaac Post they got wind

369
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Speaker 2: of this. Who are Amy and Isaac Post, niece.

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00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,440
Speaker 3: And nephew of Emily Posts, Miss Manners.

371
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 2: Yes, they were Hicksite Quakers.

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Speaker 3: I was close so close up in Rochester Hicksite Quakers.

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Speaker 2: That meant that they were Quakers who followed the teachings

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Speaker 2: of Elias Hicks.

375
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Speaker 3: Ah, so splinter Quakersah, exactly.

376
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 2: Elias Hicks didn't believe in original sin or the Trinity,

377
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Speaker 2: or predestination or an external devil.

378
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 3: Okay, sections this is lazy about starting his own religion.

379
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Speaker 2: So he's a Quaker. He splits with the rest of

380
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Speaker 2: the friends and his followers became known as Hicksite Quakers.

381
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Speaker 3: The Posts.

382
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 2: They were abolitionists, and they worked for women's rights. They

383
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,440
Speaker 2: created an interfaith anti slavery group. And Amy was at

384
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Speaker 2: the Seneca Falls Convention in eighteen forty eight.

385
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Speaker 3: Oh so the beginning of feminism. Yeah.

386
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 2: And they were also early adopters of spiritualism.

387
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 3: All the is a lot of meeting right there. Yeah.

388
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,160
Speaker 2: So Isaac and Amy they got all head up about

389
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,159
Speaker 2: the story of the guy being murdered in the Fox

390
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 2: house five years ago.

391
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Speaker 3: Did the neighbor remember this person being with any confirmation?

392
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 2: No, I don't know if he started it or if.

393
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 3: It just where this rumor started.

394
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,880
Speaker 2: Well, it's like where most rumors, You don't know where

395
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:57,400
Speaker 2: it begins.

396
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:58,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just wondering.

397
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,439
Speaker 2: Well, like any good paranormal investigators, they formed a group

398
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 2: to go and check out the basement of the spooky house.

399
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 3: Good.

400
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, as you do. Unlike most paranormal investigators who only

401
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 2: find dust flares on their film posing as spirit orbs. Yes,

402
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 2: these guys found stuff, bone, fragments, hair.

403
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

404
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 2: No word on whether these were human or animal, but

405
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,639
Speaker 2: it honestly doesn't matter. Everyone was positive that the quote

406
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 2: injured spirit was trying to communicate, so the Posts invited

407
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 2: the Fox sisters to their house to see if the

408
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 2: girls could continue communicating with spirits from another locale. Like

409
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 2: is it just the house or is it you?

410
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 3: Scientific?

411
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

412
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 3: So scientific?

413
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 2: This was what Isaac Post had to say. Quote, I

414
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 2: suppose I went with as much unbelief as Thomas felt

415
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,400
Speaker 2: when he was introduced to Jesus after he had ascended,

416
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,200
Speaker 2: But he changed his mind by quote very distinct thumps

417
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 2: under the floor and several apparent answers. Well, he should

418
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 2: have stated, not doubting Thomas.

419
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 3: I'm wondering, like, how hard is it to look under

420
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 3: the floor.

421
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 2: That's the thing they you'll see, Okay, that knocking sound

422
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 2: wasn't under the floor, It was their cracking joints what

423
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:14,639
Speaker 2: Kate and Maggie confessed to their older sister Leah that

424
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 2: they'd figured out how to crack the knuckles in their

425
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,400
Speaker 2: toes in a way that made movement almost impossible to detect.

426
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 3: Oh but this, oh thirty three times.

427
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 2: That's my question. You're running out of joints, girls, Like,

428
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 2: how is that happening?

429
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 3: I can crack my knuckles. But between the two.

430
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 2: Of them, you know, but still, and they're saying, it's

431
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 2: just their toes, So maybe it's over. Maybe they've got

432
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 2: like a loose I've have like a.

433
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 3: Thumb sock where you can pop it over and over again.

434
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 2: But that's what they're doing. So they did this with

435
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 2: their feet resting on a wooden stool, okay, and like

436
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,280
Speaker 2: sometimes or on the floor. So there's nothing that anyone

437
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 2: can see.

438
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 3: But it's loud enough. It sounds like it's everywhere.

439
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the amplification of the cracking joint made the

440
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 2: noise sound really like you said, it's everywhere, it's otherworldly.

441
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 3: Was just bouncing around off the floorboards.

442
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 2: And everything else, and you can't point to one specific

443
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 2: thing that's making the noise. So with this knowledge, Leah

444
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 2: was like, count me in. I can crack my knuckles too.

445
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 2: Let's do this. So she convinced Isaac that she was

446
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 2: communicating with his recently deceased daughter. Oh ethical o, she's

447
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 2: all crack Oh, she says, hey, that's really terrible. So

448
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: the Posts are believers after that, of course, of course

449
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 2: they're hungry.

450
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 3: They want to eat, they want to talk to their Wow.

451
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 2: So they rented the Corinthian Hall, which was the largest

452
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 2: assembly hall in Rochester, and they promoted this wonder and

453
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 2: four hundred people showed up. This was the first demonstration

454
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 2: of spiritualism to a paying public. Oh wow, emphasis on

455
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 2: the paying. So after the demonstration was over, I mean,

456
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 2: because that's the thing, like, if they were just honestly

457
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 2: talking to the dead, why not just do it in

458
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 2: a public space. Why do you have to charge people?

459
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: Spiritualist got to eat too.

460
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 2: We'll do it for the good their kids. I don't

461
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 2: make their parents get jobs.

462
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 3: I'm not the best capitalist, Elizabeth, all right, I can't

463
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 3: decide why they should be paid.

464
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 2: So after their little show, Amy Post took the sisters backstage.

465
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 2: They went into a private room. She had them stripped down. Okay,

466
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 2: she said, I don't know what I'm saying. She had

467
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 2: a stripped down But there were a bunch of people there.

468
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 3: There was a group of skeptics. Okay, you're going to

469
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 3: keep doing that.

470
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: I don't even know what song I'm trying to do.

471
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 2: So the skeptics saw that they don't have any devices

472
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: hit none of theirs.

473
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: Sure, okay, yeah, this is common we have. We saw

474
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,239
Speaker 3: this a bit Houdini and uh what you call out

475
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 3: your Conan Doyle when they had they got the like strip.

476
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 2: Well, it's like the coronation of King Charles. Get behind the.

477
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: Screen, we got the Holy Oils. We're gonna rub on. Yeah,

478
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 3: it's always like if you want to brew something. Yeah,

479
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 3: they play the music because you're taking off your clothes.

480
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 3: That's my saucy music. I'm going to do the feather

481
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:57,919
Speaker 3: dance in a second.

482
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: There wasn't any evidence, right.

483
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 3: Dan to the seven. Yeah, and there's a day.

484
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 2: They were born.

485
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: No electric devices.

486
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 2: Here, just two little mediums.

487
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 3: Well three so yeah, boy.

488
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: Eighteenth century Austrian healer Franz Anton Mesmer, he was a

489
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: popular guy in eighteen forties and marriag.

490
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I got a story for him for you.

491
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 2: He said everything in existence in the whole universe is

492
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 2: controlled bay quote magnetic fluid.

493
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's him, that's Mesmer.

494
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 2: And what happens if your fluid becomes imbalanced, Well, it's

495
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: going to make you sick.

496
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you probably need leeches or probably some cocaine.

497
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 2: How can you be cured? You got to get balanced,

498
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 2: and how did you get balanced? Mesmer has the answer?

499
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 3: What's the answer?

500
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: He said that he could restore the balance by waving

501
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 2: his hands over a person's body and this would cause

502
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 2: a mesmerized hypnotic state, that's the word. And when the

503
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: person was mesmerized, he could fiddle with the magnetic force

504
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: and boom. Healthy. Dude.

505
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 3: If I had a better name, that'd be my goal

506
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 3: to have my name be turned down. Yeah, a verb

507
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 3: or an adjective, so you like, run your nesk. I'd

508
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 3: be cool with mesmerize, I mean martinized. There's something anyway,

509
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 3: but Burnetti's.

510
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 2: Sarennie maybe sarahize something. Uh. Sometimes when people were under

511
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 2: his spell, they said they were visited by spirits from

512
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 2: other dimensions naturally, that's pretty cool. Yeah, you're into that

513
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: sort of thing. Around the time that Mesmer was Mesmerizing,

514
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: the Swedish mystic and philosopher Emmanuel Swedenborg. He was coming

515
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 2: up too. He believed the afterlife consisted of three heavens,

516
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: three hells, and a middle space where every person went

517
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: after dying Cleveland. So it was like a processing center Cleveland.

518
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 2: This middle place was supposed to be a lot like

519
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: Earth or cle Cleveland. He said. Selfish folks would end

520
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: up in one of the hells depending on how bad

521
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,239
Speaker 2: they were. Nice, caring people could make it to one

522
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,719
Speaker 2: of the heavens depending on how good they were. He wrote, quote,

523
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: the Lord casts no one into hell, but those who

524
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: are there have deliberately cast themselves into it and keep

525
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: themselves there. He sounds fun, he's super fun, and he

526
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 2: you know, kind of then gets absorbed into all the

527
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 2: spiritualism stuff. Nearly a century later, a man named Andrew

528
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: Jackson Davis. He sounds like maybe a Civil War general,

529
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: but he's not.

530
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 3: Totally or on the wrong side exactly.

531
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: He was known as John the Baptist of modern Spiritualism.

532
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 2: So he took the chocolate of Mesmer and the peanut

533
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: butter of Swedenborg, and he made a delicious book. He

534
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: communicated with the spirit of Swedenborg through a series of

535
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 2: mesmeric trances. Okay, and Davis recorded these messages in a

536
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: giant book called The Principles of Nature, Her Divine Revelations

537
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: and a Voice to Mankind. Oh wow, I see that title.

538
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know what that's books about. I'm

539
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: not reading that.

540
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: So he's like the Edgar Casey before caid you write

541
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 3: a bestseller.

542
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: Yes, So this is what he had to say. Quote,

543
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: it is a truth that's the spirit's commune with one another.

544
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 2: While one is in the body and the other in

545
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: the higher spheres. All the world will hail with delight

546
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: the ushering in of that era when the interiors of

547
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 2: men will be opened and the spiritual communication will be

548
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: established the dead.

549
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be a year later.

550
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: This is what Davis wrote in his diary. I stole

551
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: his diary. I'm gonna tell you what's in there. Quote

552
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: about daylight this morning, A warm breathing passed over my face,

553
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: and I heard a sorry it's addicted.

554
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 3: I know you can't.

555
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: And I heard a voice, tender and strong, saying, brother,

556
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: the good work has begun. Behold a living demonstration is born.

557
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: That sounds like some ghostbreasters stuff. Okay, So like the.

558
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: Date of the diary entry March thirty first, eighteen forty eight,

559
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: the same day that the Fox sisters displayed their toolence

560
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: to their mother and their neighbor, a great awakening, a

561
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: living demonstration was born.

562
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 3: Interesting for the set.

563
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: So upon hearing about the sisters, Davis invited them to

564
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: his house in New York to witness their abilities himself.

565
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: And once they wowed and with their wo w, it

566
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 2: was on. The sisters went on tour. Okay, it was

567
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: I got a bus merch.

568
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: They took the road.

569
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: They booked a suite at Barnum's Hotel, which was owned

570
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 2: by the cousin of P. T. Barnum, that was on

571
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: the corner of Broadway and Maiden Lane. Sessions were conducted

572
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: in the hotel's parlor for the admission price of a dollar,

573
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: and that was done at ten am, five pm, and

574
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: eight pm. They had three shows a day. They offered.

575
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: You know, if you wanted to, you could book a

576
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 2: private session. As many as thirty people would be in

577
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: attendance at a time in the in the hotel's parlor.

578
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: Famous people stopped by. We always liked to love them.

579
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: Who are they?

580
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: James Finnimore Cooper, Oh, yes, the writer William Colin Bryant

581
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: so Journer truth Wow Yeah. Journalist and abolitionist William Lloyd

582
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: Garrison was there during a session when a spirit tapped

583
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: out a message quote, spiritualism will work miracles in the

584
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: cause of reform in time to a popular song.

585
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: What was the popular song? I thought, you're going to

586
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 3: tell me it's her mother's favorite song.

587
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: You know, it's iambic pentameter. Yeah, anything in iambic pentameter.

588
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 3: Can be that interesting, Leah.

589
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: She stayed in New York and took callers in a

590
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: sance room, and Maggie and Kate continued touring. It wasn't

591
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: always glamorous life on the road, Oh yeah. Maggie seemed

592
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: to be a particular target for people trying to debunk

593
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: the girls. For some reason, they thought she was possessed

594
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: a lot of times interesting. She was almost kidnapped by

595
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: a group of men who were offended by her performance

596
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: while in Troy, New York.

597
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: They were gonna like shake it out of her, I.

598
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: Don't know, put her in a pillowcase and throw her

599
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: in the river.

600
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, bag of kittens.

601
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: Who knows? Yeah, exactly. Horace Greeley founder.

602
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: And editor of the Go West young Man The New York.

603
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: Tribune began acting as a chaperone for the sisters.

604
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 3: Oh, this got.

605
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: Them entry into holding seances for the upper classes. And

606
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: he was a mark and he was a pretty lousy chaperone. Yeah,

607
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 2: he was really lousy. He let them drink wine. Well,

608
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: you know, it's like little kids get him drunk.

609
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not thinking that that was a mistake

610
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 3: on his part.

611
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 2: He's like a fun mom in the suburbs.

612
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I'm picturing.

613
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: Then wonders why there are so many single car accidents

614
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: around prom anyway, So scandals started to surface. They didn't

615
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: really have any supervision. What started out as a prank

616
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: to mess with their mom and neighbor, what was supposed

617
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: to just be a goof to fend off boredom, was

618
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: now the source of incredible destructive stress for them.

619
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they're about to get in an invitation to

620
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: the White House.

621
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: Totally well, mind you. This was all within a year

622
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: and a half.

623
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

624
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: November eighteen forty nine, they gave a performance that ended

625
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: with the visiting spirits tapping out. We will now bid

626
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: you farewell because they're like, let's just stop.

627
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: This other knuckle o feet just swollen.

628
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: How are they talking?

629
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: And I imagine this is Morse code or unless they

630
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 3: established some like you know code on the on the floor,

631
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: like one is a two is bag.

632
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: I feel like in Star Wars when someone can talk

633
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: to one of the droids who's just beeping because they

634
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: have someone who's like, oh yeah, they said, now bid

635
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: you farewell. That's what they said.

636
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been I've been to all the shows.

637
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: So they make that farewell message and for two weeks

638
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: there are no spiritual visitations. But Leah wanted to get

639
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: that money, so she made.

640
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: Like Gus the oldest one. She got real life problems,

641
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: she made.

642
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: Like a true stage mama, and she just worked through

643
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: the pain. The show must go on, Zaron. So four

644
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: years on.

645
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: The gar letting her way through spiritualism totally.

646
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: Four years on. More and more doubts are being cast

647
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: on their abilities. During a performance four years during a

648
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: performance in Buffalo, New York, pillows were placed beneath the

649
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: feet of the sisters and then that night's performance was

650
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: awfully quiet. Saren hm, No ghosts came and knocking.

651
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they couldn't get the breast off.

652
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: The Yeah, whenever it looked like the sisters would be

653
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: exposed as frauds, Leah would pull up this like stock

654
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: defense card. You guys, the negative, doubtful energy in the

655
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: room is keeping the spirits away her.

656
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 3: You don't believe it won't happen.

657
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: Only the peer of heart who truly believes can experience

658
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: what my sisters are doing.

659
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: Coincidental Yeah.

660
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: Eighteen fifty one, a relative of the Fox family, missus

661
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: Norman Culver, She signed a confession. She said that she

662
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: had helped the Fox sisters by touching them to indicate

663
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: when the rapping sounds should be made. She said they

664
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: used their knees, ankles, toe joints to make the sounds. Hm,

665
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: I can I can crack pretty much anything, can you.

666
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 4: Yeah?

667
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: Sure, just snap my bones. That's hilarious to me. They're

668
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: just running, running through all the joints.

669
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I got some ricketty joints. But like,

670
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 3: I don't think I could reliably do three shows a

671
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: day for four years.

672
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: I got to busted up ankle. Yeah, but when when

673
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: I move it a lot of times it'll just yeah.

674
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: No, imagine doing that every day for like you gets

675
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: so swollen. Yeah, and then like when it rains, i'd

676
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 3: want to cry.

677
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: But I think I could be a medium. I love

678
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: popping my joints.

679
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: Okay, there you go, let's let's get you. I'll be

680
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: your agent.

681
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: Not like you enjoy popping joints. I enjoy popping my joints. Anyway,

682
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: the girls were still on the road. They were still

683
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: practicing that early hustle culture selling vibes. The next stop

684
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: had some unexpected twists. When we come back from this break,

685
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: I will tell you all about.

686
00:31:46,640 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 4: Them, Zarin.

687
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: Yes, Elizabeth, it was eighteen fifty two, oh you, oh yeah,

688
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: that's right it was, and Maggie was seventeen. Maggie when

689
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: their travels took them to Philadelphia. It was there that

690
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: she met thirty year old Arctic explorer Elisha kent Kin.

691
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: That's a heck of a name, isn't it.

692
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: Cain was convinced that the sisters.

693
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: Were frauds, got on Elisha.

694
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: He did his best to debunk them.

695
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: However, he fell in love.

696
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: He came up empty. He said, after a whole month's trial,

697
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: I could make nothing of them. Therefore they are a

698
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: great mystery. So if he can't figure it out. It

699
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: must not be able to be sold.

700
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 3: I mean, he's an Arctic explorer, he can't do it.

701
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: But you're right, he did find love. He and Maggie

702
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: fell in love.

703
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: I was wondering.

704
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: He was thirteen years his junior.

705
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 3: Okay, how old is she?

706
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: She's what seventeen and he's a thirty year old Arctic explorer.

707
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: He was controlling, but I would say in a good way.

708
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: All right, Well, he convinced her to give up spiritualism

709
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: and go to school.

710
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: Oh that is yeah, I wouldn't call that controlling. That

711
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 3: rational advice.

712
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: He was genuinely in love with her.

713
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, reasonable, I'd like you to become a real person

714
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: and enjoy things.

715
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: Like stop your your spiritualist child star gig.

716
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: Stop cracking your bones for bucks. Baby, he loved her.

717
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: His family did not. Oh they were Philadelphia blue bloods.

718
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: Oh so he's wealthy. That's why he could go Arctic explorers.

719
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: How can you be a thirty year old Arctic explorer

720
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: and like you come out of the.

721
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: Story would either be the one holding the rope or

722
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 3: you're the one paying for the rope. But yeah, so uh.

723
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: They thought that she was like an ignorant heretic bumpkin. Yeah,

724
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: I bet certainly not good enough for their boy. No, no, no,

725
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: he vowed to marry her anyway, So he's getting ready

726
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: to go on this expedition. Before he left, they had

727
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 2: a ring exchange ceremony, and the idea was that they

728
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: would have an actual wedding when he got back and

729
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: make it legal. Unfortunately, they never got to walk down

730
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: the aisle because two years later he got sick in

731
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: Cuba and died at the age of thirty six.

732
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: Huh.

733
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: His funeral was the largest in American history until Abraham Lincoln's.

734
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: Why a lunar crater Cain was named for him? What

735
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: the waterway between Greenland and northernmost Canadian Islands, previously named

736
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: Peabody Bay was renamed Caan Basin in his honor? What

737
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: did he do be rich his family? You know? I mean,

738
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: I guess he was he did. I shouldn't, I shouldn't

739
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: diminish his So.

740
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: He explored up around the greens.

741
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 2: He wrote volumes on you know what he saw and

742
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: Arctic geology.

743
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: Explorers are people who are out where nobody is. How

744
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 3: did he have the largest funeral at such a young

745
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: age when it seems like. Most of his time was

746
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: spent out where nobody was. So was his family like

747
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 3: super like everyone wanted to go to the boys funeral

748
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 3: like got for him.

749
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: A lot of it had to do with the family.

750
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: The family was wealthy and influence and they went off,

751
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: oh yeah, and they refused to let Maggie attend this

752
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: mega funeral. They denied their common law marriage and their

753
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: ring ceremony, which meant that she was not in the will.

754
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I guess that part.

755
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: To honor his memory, she granted his wish to convert

756
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: to Catholicism. He was not Catholic. He's be Catholic for me.

757
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: He was a Presbyterian.

758
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: If I could, I'd be Catholic.

759
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: He thought that the iconography and the mysticism of the

760
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: Catholic Church was like right up her Alley's Christian.

761
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: There's there's bleeding gods on the wall. You'll love it.

762
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 3: It's gonna be great.

763
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 2: She was broken, though, and she was ashamed at the

764
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: rejection from his family, so she hit the bottle. I mean,

765
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: she's been drinking since she was a little kid.

766
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I imagine at this point.

767
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and she vowed to quote Holy and Forever

768
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 2: abandoned spiritualism, so she also got back at his family

769
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: in the best way a criminal knows how.

770
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 3: Wrote a book.

771
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 2: It was called The Love Life of Doctor Caine.

772
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 3: It was.

773
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: Its evolved in.

774
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: Bouncing. Sorry, go on, it's like the rockets.

775
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 2: Producer said, it's kind of like a morning show Sanford

776
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: and Son. It was a collection of the love letters. Meanwhile, Kate,

777
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: she went the exact opposite way. She married a devout

778
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 2: spiritualist and they had two kids, and she shot to

779
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: the top of the spooky charts. As a medium, she

780
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: had a trick where she would communicate two messages simultaneously.

781
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: She would write one while saying the other out loud.

782
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 2: It's like when I'm typing and talking to someone on

783
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: the field at the same time.

784
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 3: Big whoop.

785
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 2: I'm in the audience.

786
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 3: I go big, big whoop. Huh.

787
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 2: She would also transcribe messages in reverse script.

788
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 3: So he right backwards.

789
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, which, okay, that's a good one. I'll give you

790
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: that one.

791
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 3: Sure, So you got a memory and you can write backwards.

792
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: She would hold demonstrations where blank cards would like spontaneously

793
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: reveal words that weren't previously there.

794
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: Oh you got some like some lemon.

795
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 2: That's a good one though. Here's the best though. One

796
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 2: of her children, Ferdinand, he was also a medium, and

797
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: when he was only three, he would be possessed by spirits.

798
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: That's cool, Yeah, I like that.

799
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 3: I'd think if you'd like maybe like a caught fire,

800
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 3: like the human torch, that'd be impressive.

801
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: No hold on, the spirits would communicate through him. And

802
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: how did people know this was happening. He had quote

803
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: an unearthly glow that wouldn't radiate from his eyes.

804
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 3: There you go, he went dark. Brandon, Now you're talking

805
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 3: my language.

806
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: Yes, I love it.

807
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 3: So we want to get into that comic book, realm.

808
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 3: I'm like, forget spiritualism, give me Cyclops.

809
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: During a session with Charles, the Cyclops of Greek mythology.

810
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: During a session with Charles Livermore, who was a wealthy banker,

811
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: she summoned up his deceased wife and then also the

812
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 2: spirit of Benjamin Franklin.

813
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 3: That's a fun one to draw.

814
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: So ben let everyone know that he was in the

815
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: house by writing his name on a blank card. Just

816
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: gave an autograph. Here you go. That's kind of The

817
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: Civil War was big business for Kate. Grieving family members

818
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: they would go to her, I need to commune with

819
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: my lost loved.

820
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: One, my brother, my daughter, my brother, my mother.

821
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: This surgeon popularity meant that spectators they wanted miracles. They're like,

822
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: I need a miracle two fingers up. They wanted it

823
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: every session. I need a miracle every day, is what

824
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: they would say. That took its toll on Kate. Like

825
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 2: her sister before her, she started drinking heavily.

826
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 3: It's nineteen hundred, the nineteenth century, eighteen hundred, so that's

827
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 3: what you did. It was like, look, I don't have

828
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 3: any good water. I got nothing to do. Let's drink

829
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 3: about it.

830
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: Drink, let's drink about it. Things went from bad to

831
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: worse for the sisters. Leah attacked Kate publicly for her

832
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: drinking problem, so she just aired their laundry. She accused

833
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: Kate of being an unfit mother to her two young children.

834
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: They're getting nasty. Kate was humiliated, and Maggie was pissed.

835
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: She did not like this. She was so mad she

836
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: made her own public announcement. She let it leak that

837
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: the Fox sisters quote unquote abilities had been a hoax

838
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 2: from day one. Oh and then she denounced spiritualism.

839
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: She broke kay feb.

840
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: The New York World paid Maggie fifteen hundred dollars, which

841
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: is a lot of money, then to publish an interview.

842
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: They this would be the lead up to a public

843
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: announcement that she was going to make, and Kate would

844
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 2: be in the audience to support. In the New York

845
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: World interview, Maggie stated, quote, my sister Katie was the

846
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 2: first to observe that by swishing her fingers she could

847
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 2: produce certain noises with her knuckles and joints, and that

848
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: the same effect could be made with the toes. Finding

849
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: that we could make raps with our feet, first with

850
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: one foot and then with both, we practiced until we

851
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: could do this easily when the room was dark. Like

852
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 2: most perplexing things, when made clear, it is astonishing how

853
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 2: easily it was done. The wrapping is simply the result

854
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: of perfect control of the muscles of the leg below

855
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: the knee, which govern the tendons of the foot and

856
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: allow the action of the toe and ankle bones that

857
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 2: are not commonly known. Such perfect control is only possible

858
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 2: when the child is taken at an early age and

859
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: carefully and continually taught to practice the muscles which grow

860
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: stiffer in later years. This, then, is the simple explanation

861
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: of the whole method of knocks and wraps.

862
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 3: So looks like making a Chinese gymnast. Yeah, you start

863
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: very We train these bones well.

864
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 2: And like like when they say that they they would

865
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 2: make raps with their feet, that they're just like their

866
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 2: feet are just her holding.

867
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, do a quick sixteen bars. Who's turning?

868
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: The toe just grows the mouth all. Hey, my name

869
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: is Toe, and I'm here to say I got a

870
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: I love spirits in a major way. Zaren close your eyes.

871
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: I want you to picture it. It's October twenty first,

872
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: eighteen eighty eight. You're a young man in New York City,

873
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: working days as an apprentice tailor. You consider yourself a

874
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: curious citizen of the world. Went off the clock. You

875
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: like to get out and about. It's the big apple

876
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: baby city that never sleeps. You're in a crowd at

877
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: the Academy of Music in Manhattan. It's a grand opera

878
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 2: house by Union Square that has recently started offering vaudeville shows.

879
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: You hear a woman, a mystic was going to give

880
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 2: a talk or demonstration or something. You bought a ticket

881
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: on a whim, and here you are, as two thousand

882
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: other people crowd into their seats. A piano plays a

883
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 2: popular tune of the day. When those around you were

884
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: chatting away in excitement, speculating about what might happen on stage,

885
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: the curtain pulls back and a hush falls over the crowd.

886
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: The tinkling of the piano fades away. A slight, dark

887
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: haired woman appears from the wings and makes her way

888
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: to a spotlight in the center of the stage. She

889
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: clears her throat, it's Margaretta Fox, and she's here to

890
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: tell her story.

891
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: Quote.

892
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: When I began this deception, I was too young to

893
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: know right from wrong that I have been mainly instrumental

894
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: in perpetuating the fraud of spiritualism upon a two confiding public.

895
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 2: Many of you already know. It is the greatest sorrow

896
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: of my life. My sister Katie and myself were very

897
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: young children when this horrible deception began. At night, when

898
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: we went to bed, we used to tie an apple

899
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: on a string and move the string up and down,

900
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: causing the apple to bump on the floor, or we

901
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: would drop the apple on the floor, making a strange

902
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: noise every time it would rebound a great many people

903
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: when they hear the wrapping imagine at once that the

904
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 2: spirits are touching them. It was a very common delusion.

905
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: Some very wealthy people came to see me some years

906
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: ago when I lived in forty second Street, and I

907
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: did some wrappings for them. I made the spirit wrap

908
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: on the chair and one of the ladies cried out,

909
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: I feel the spirit tapping me on the shoulder. Of course,

910
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: that was pure imagination.

911
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: I like it.

912
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Maggie then went on to show how they

913
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: did this. She just like, you know, showed her ankle

914
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: when we gasped, and then she's like, crack.

915
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 3: Alac alecs dropped the boss.

916
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 2: I just want to wrap. She took off her shoe

917
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: and she put it on a wooden stool. And this

918
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: is what the New York Herald reported quote, there stood

919
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: a black robed, sharp faced widow working her big.

920
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 3: Toe wow and solemnly.

921
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 2: Declaring that it was in this way she created the

922
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: excitement that has driven so many persons to suicide or insanity.

923
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: One moment it was ludicrous, the next.

924
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 3: It was weird.

925
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: That one moment it was ludacris, the.

926
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 3: Next TI was weird journalism. I really told the story.

927
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 3: I feel like I was I learned everything I needed

928
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 3: to know the heart.

929
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: Of the matter. Maggie finished up her demonstration by saying

930
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: that Leah knew from the beginning that it was all

931
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: a prank, and that she decided to exploit the situation

932
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 2: for cash. So at first, the little girls are just like, watch,

933
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: we're going to freak out these people.

934
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 3: Rememb We're going to freak out the adults like.

935
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 2: There's some money to be made. She stared at the audience.

936
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 2: Then she thanked God for being able to expose spiritualism,

937
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 2: and then walked off the stage. There was now a

938
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 2: split in the spiritualism movement. Samuel B. Britton he was

939
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 2: the former publisher of the Spiritual Telegraph, which was the

940
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: first spiritualistic newspaper published in the US. His ghost supposedly

941
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: made an appearance at a seance, okay, and he popped

942
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: in to defend Maggie.

943
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 3: Spiritualism. He's at a paper founder shows up at a seance,

944
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: his ghost to say that spiritualism is a fraud.

945
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 2: No, no, no, yeah yeah yeah.

946
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: Right, so yeah, I wonder as sure I got that right?

947
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 3: So no, he's said Maggie.

948
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: No, he said she's authentic.

949
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 3: Oh, he's saying she's she's wrong, she's wrong. So okay,

950
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 3: it would have been better if he shout out.

951
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: To say that his spirit is crackrec and they're like, oh,

952
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: he's saying that Maggie doesn't know what she's talking about.

953
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 2: This is what he said. Quote the band of spirits

954
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: attending during the early part of her career had been

955
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: usurped by other unseen intelligences who are not scrupulous in

956
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: their dealings with humanity.

957
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 3: Oh so the first one's are real. Everything else after.

958
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: That, that's a long ghost message.

959
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 3: That's a long that's a lot of tapping and cracking.

960
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: It's a lot of backwards right. And other members of

961
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: the spiritualist movement saw Maggie's declaration as a mercenary move

962
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 2: They thought, well, she's failed as a professional medium.

963
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 3: Now she's the one. Well, now she's going to.

964
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 2: Get authority as a detractor. And a lot of people

965
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 2: thought that the fifteen hundred dollars check she got for

966
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 2: that interview just went right to the drink.

967
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 3: She just drink herself.

968
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 2: So they have opinions, Well, she started going by the

969
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 2: pseudonym missus Spencer, and she began to reveal tricks of

970
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: the trade. Mediums would use their teeth or feet to

971
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 2: write messages on those blank cards. How are you using

972
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: your teeth? Maybe in prints, I guess, hiding under the table.

973
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 3: I don't know.

974
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 2: I suppose if the room's dark enough, like you can

975
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: get away with all sorts of stuff. A year later,

976
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: Maggie recanted her confession.

977
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, Mags, and she said.

978
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 2: The spirits told her to do it.

979
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 3: Wait, so the spirits told her to say that it's

980
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 3: all bunked. And then she came back a year later

981
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 3: and said, the spirits changed her mind. I gotta be

982
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: truthful of y'all made to it.

983
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: She torpedoed her only source of ind But come on

984
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: back in the game, she went. The sisters never reconciled.

985
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: I bet not.

986
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: Leah passed away in eighteen ninety.

987
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 3: She's like the WWE wrestler breaks a character and script.

988
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 3: They can't let her back in like you're out.

989
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: Kate died two years later, eighteen ninety two, mid drinking binge. Oh,

990
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 2: and then eight months after that, Maggie died. The year

991
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: Maggie died, Spiritualist formed the National Spiritualist Association, which is

992
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: known today as the nationals Spiritualist Association of Churches.

993
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 3: It's still around.

994
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 2: Sure is nineteen oh four, a group of children were

995
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: playing in that haunted Fox family farmhouse. They found the

996
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: majority of a skeleton, which I feel would be traumatic,

997
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: and this led to a brief probably resurgence in believing

998
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: that the Fox sisters were right along. Yeah. However, a

999
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 2: doctor examined the bones and it turns out they were

1000
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: chicken bones, most likely planted as a joke. There did

1001
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 2: they do? Like an oline them a little bit? There

1002
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: are at least ten books.

1003
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,720
Speaker 3: Chick he was a very short mass.

1004
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: There are ten books, at least ten books about them. Sure,

1005
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 2: multiple websites. Weirdly, no movie seems ripe for.

1006
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: It, right, Yeah, I can totally do that.

1007
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 2: You just get one actress who can crack them knuckles.

1008
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Sophia Coppola.

1009
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 2: Hit film perfect. What's your ridiculous takeaway?

1010
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 3: Oh, my ridiculous takeaway. I mean that the older sister

1011
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 3: I would like to know more about her because of like,

1012
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 3: she doesn't have these younger sisters, like they're not as

1013
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: obviously the younger sisters seem a little tighter, right, and

1014
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: then she comes along and you guys got this thing going, Oh,

1015
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 3: let's go exploit that. Then she exploits it. Then she

1016
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: like basically flips. So it feels like it's not even

1017
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 3: I guess it's that ridiculous. It's just sad is that

1018
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 3: she's like the worst sister because like she's like envious,

1019
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 3: not of what her younger sister's like, like, oh, they

1020
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 3: live so free, but it's like she sees them like

1021
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 3: the way that parents often see children's like, oh, you guys,

1022
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 3: guys got something going. Let me make some money off balls.

1023
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 3: And she's the stage.

1024
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: She's an exploiter. Yeah, I want to know more about her.

1025
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: Creepy little boy with the glowing eyes.

1026
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 3: Ferd Man, that's my jam right there, dude, Like how

1027
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: did they pull that off?

1028
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, and how and how.

1029
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 3: Much did those eyes really go? I mean obviously they

1030
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 3: weren't shooting beans out, but I mean, like, what were

1031
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 3: they doing? Well, if you want to get technical, if

1032
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: you're bouncing light photons and yes.

1033
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: You're gonna be talking about Yeah, maybe that's all I

1034
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 2: have though.

1035
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:57,479
Speaker 3: That's good.

1036
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 2: You can find us online at Ridiculous Crime to Do

1037
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: we have all sorts of fun stuff happening over there,

1038
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 2: a lot of dogs and sunglasses. We're also on Ridiculous

1039
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: Crime at both Twitter and Instagram. You can email us

1040
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, leave us a talkback

1041
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 2: on the iHeart app. Just reach out and tune in

1042
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: next time. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and

1043
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: Zaren Burnett, produced and edited by Medium to the Stars

1044
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: Dave Cousten. Research is by Ghostly spector Marissa Brown and

1045
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 2: renowned psychic Andrea Song Sharpened Tear. The theme song is

1046
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: by Anxious Seance attendees Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Executive

1047
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 2: producers are the Ghosts of Ben Bowen and Will Brown.

1048
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 3: Dus Clime Say It One More Time cry.

1049
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

1050
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: to my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1051
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.