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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for a special bonus episode of

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Speaker 1: the Therapy Me for Black Girls Podcast. You've got a

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Speaker 1: great new book to add to your reading list right

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Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. Are you looking for

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Speaker 1: something new and insightful to add to your bookshelf? Well,

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Library is open for business

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Speaker 1: and you don't even need a library card. This week

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Speaker 1: we're reading Truth's Table, black women's musings on life, love

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Speaker 1: and liberation. Truths Table is a collection of essays and

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Speaker 1: stories documenting the lift, theology, and spirituality we need to

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Speaker 1: hear in order to lean into a more freeing, loving,

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Speaker 1: and liberating faith from the host of the beloved Truths

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Speaker 1: Table podcast. Today, I'm joined by co authors Dr Christina

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Speaker 1: Edmondson and ms A Chimtee you want. During our conversation,

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Speaker 1: we explore the creation story behind the book, how Christianity

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Speaker 1: shows up in the tech, and how they want this

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Speaker 1: book to impact its readers. If something resonates with you

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Speaker 1: while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social

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Speaker 1: media using the hashtag TVG in session, or join us

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Speaker 1: over in the Sister Circle To talk more in depth

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Speaker 1: about the episode. You can join us at community dot

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today. Thank you Dr

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Speaker 1: Joy for having us. Yes, thank you for having us,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy. It's a pleasure to be here on the

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Speaker 1: couch with you. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. Very

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Speaker 1: excited to chat with you. And has been such a

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Speaker 1: beautiful evolution. I feel like for Truth Table, I don't

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Speaker 1: know quite what the timeline is. I feel like Truth

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Speaker 1: Table and Therapy for Black Girls have been cousins along

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Speaker 1: this podcasting journey. Like I feel like, you know, we

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Speaker 1: were out at the same time, and so it has

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Speaker 1: been really cool to see how both of the platforms

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Speaker 1: have really blossomed into what they are. That we do

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Speaker 1: consider you a cousin, and so we're just so excited

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Speaker 1: for really all that therapy for black girls is and

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Speaker 1: has been for black women, and just your leadership as

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Speaker 1: a fellow psychologist, I mean, what you have done to

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Speaker 1: reduce stigma and to make it very clear the importance

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Speaker 1: of black women's concerns and hurts and growth. And so

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Speaker 1: we salute you, Dr Joy. We give your flowers right now,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. The feeling is so mutual, so mutual.

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Speaker 1: So I am clearly very familiar with Truth Table, but

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Speaker 1: there may be some listening or participating that are not familiar.

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Speaker 1: So tell us about the Truth Table podcast and how

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Speaker 1: it started and now it's new evolution into a book. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy, we are definitely sisters and cousins. You know.

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Speaker 1: Truth Table started in seventeen. It's a table built by

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Speaker 1: black women and for black women, and we are the

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Speaker 1: midwives of culture for grace and truth and so we

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Speaker 1: at Truce Table, we are unashamed about our faith convictions.

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Speaker 1: Three Black Christian women who talk about race politics gender,

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Speaker 1: current events from a Christian lens, but a theological lens,

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Speaker 1: trying to give an analysis and make sense of what's

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Speaker 1: going on in the world right. And so we've been

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Speaker 1: doing that for six seasons now, six seasons already, we've

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Speaker 1: been doing that, covering all types of topics, and so

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Speaker 1: now we have expanded and now we have a book

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Speaker 1: called Troops Table, Black Women's Musings on Life, Love and Liberation.

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Speaker 1: And so we have taken our podcast into a book.

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Speaker 1: And so this is really our culmination of our work

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Speaker 1: as a trio, because myself and Christina will be moving

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Speaker 1: forward as a duo and Michelle is going to continue

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Speaker 1: her work there in St. Louis in activism and in

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Speaker 1: ministry there. So we've been running together for all these

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Speaker 1: years and now we're gonna continue to march on. But

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Speaker 1: our book will be the culmination of our work as

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Speaker 1: a trio. I love then. I'm very excited for people

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Speaker 1: to dig into it, and I would love to hear

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Speaker 1: about the different leans because I think that that is

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Speaker 1: a part of what's so cool about Truth Table is

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Speaker 1: that you all approach it in some similar ways, but

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Speaker 1: you also have different trainings and backgrounds, right, so your psychologists,

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Speaker 1: activism organizer. So tell me about how each of those

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Speaker 1: leans blends together to come together for truth table, Dr Joey.

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Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, that's just like what it

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Speaker 1: means to be around the table with your girlfriends, right,

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Speaker 1: And obviously you connect over a shared experience navigating this wild, sexist,

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Speaker 1: racist world you're leaning in and you're you're sitting across

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Speaker 1: from at brunch. You know women who are teachers and

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Speaker 1: educators and doctors and stay at home moms, you know,

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Speaker 1: the whole collection. So I think a lot of our

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Speaker 1: friendship networks probably feel that way, that it's just a

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Speaker 1: table of similarity as well as complexity where we can

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Speaker 1: complement each other. So my background is in psychology focusing

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Speaker 1: trauma therapy, but have been hired for over a decade

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Speaker 1: around intercultural issues, diversity, equity, inclusion. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: Michelle is an organizer as well as clergy person, really

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Speaker 1: active in the Ferguson movement and the movement for black

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Speaker 1: lives across the country. And obviously a Chimny is our

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Speaker 1: public theologian and so really, I mean she really brings

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Speaker 1: to their her theological training on everyday questions as well

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Speaker 1: as political questions that we are all dealing with and

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Speaker 1: kind of burdened by right now. So that's our academic

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Speaker 1: book smart stuff. But I think we're knitted together by

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Speaker 1: this kind of shared sense appreciation and love and delight

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Speaker 1: in black women and black woman nous and a real

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Speaker 1: friendship where we want to see each other shine and

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Speaker 1: thrive and overcome and rest. So all those things I

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Speaker 1: think are at the table. It really is interesting, I think,

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure that you ran the sedition writing your

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Speaker 1: book too, to be writing a book right now, right

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Speaker 1: like with the background of the world looking like what

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Speaker 1: it looks like, and so I'm curious to hear especially

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Speaker 1: from you a chimity and thinking about it does feel

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Speaker 1: like there are so many theological underpinnings to what we've

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Speaker 1: been experiencing for the past couple of years, and I'm

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Speaker 1: curious to hear your thoughts on maybe like how you

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Speaker 1: are making sense and how others can make sense of

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Speaker 1: like everything that's happening in the world. Yes, Dr Joyd,

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Speaker 1: there's really a lot going on right You're just sitting

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Speaker 1: down trying to focus and write a book. It's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my godness, right now in this time, like it's

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Speaker 1: just too much going on. That's something that I've been

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Speaker 1: wrestling with since the onset of the pandemic, right because

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of people are trying to move

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Speaker 1: into this normal and I'm like, yo, it's still happening, y'all.

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Speaker 1: It's still happening. People are still dying, and so trying

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Speaker 1: to really in the public square, I've been, you know,

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Speaker 1: writing for like The Atlantic about the pandemic and trying

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Speaker 1: to help people to come to like some radical acceptance

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Speaker 1: about the reality about the pandemic. And I moved through

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Speaker 1: the lament and move through the grief. Let's not deny it,

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Speaker 1: let's not shove it, let's not suppress it, but let's

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Speaker 1: deal with it head on. And by dealing with that,

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Speaker 1: hopefully we can unleash our imaginations and begin to dream

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Speaker 1: up a world that's better than the one that preceded

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. And so I did about two different articles

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Speaker 1: about that in The Atlantic. I felt like a voice

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Speaker 1: shouting out in the wilderness. Okay, y'all, hope we're not

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Speaker 1: going back to normal, and normal was problematic. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: still worn out because of the normally, but we're still

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Speaker 1: persisting unfortunately trying to get back and all these bandates

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Speaker 1: and everything being lifted, and so I try to make

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Speaker 1: sense of that and try to help I guess you

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Speaker 1: can say, hold people's hands through it, because this is

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Speaker 1: just a lot that we're dealing with it. So I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of empathy, and I know what it

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Speaker 1: means to want to bury your head in the sand.

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Speaker 1: I get it, I really do. But that's just not

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Speaker 1: going to be the solution in the long run. If

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Speaker 1: we want to get through this pandemic, we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to face the reality of the ways things have shifted,

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Speaker 1: in the ways things have changed, and so I tried

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Speaker 1: to make some sense of that and do try to

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Speaker 1: help people begin to grieve the life that they once

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Speaker 1: knew and then needing to pivot and what that means.

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Speaker 1: And then even just the political landscape and how things

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Speaker 1: have really changed significantly and the ways that fascism is

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Speaker 1: just beginning to lay hold, and what do we do.

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Speaker 1: How do we deal with competing truths, right, little t truths?

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Speaker 1: And so that's my job. That's what I try to

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Speaker 1: do on truths table, Yes, in the book as well,

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Speaker 1: but also just in the public square and various mediums

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Speaker 1: through writing and things like that. And Dr Edmonton, I mean,

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Speaker 1: as a fellow psychologist, I know that you have also

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Speaker 1: been just paying attention to everything that has been happening,

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Speaker 1: And can you talk a little bit about how your

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Speaker 1: work has changed during the pandemic and how that maybe

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Speaker 1: shows up in the book. As you were talking, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, Dr Joy, I was like, the block is hot.

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Speaker 1: The block is hot, I mean it is, it's over

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Speaker 1: the top out here. You know, sometimes you just have

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Speaker 1: to name a thing. And so Keimmedy had talked about

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Speaker 1: a pandemic. But on top of the pandemic, we just

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Speaker 1: have so much political unrested instability. We have an increase

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Speaker 1: in hate crimes. We have global conflicts, wars, ones that

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Speaker 1: we know about like in Ukraine, and ones that we

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Speaker 1: don't we know less about, like in Ethiopia. So they're

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Speaker 1: just layers upon layers, and we're living in a cultural trauma.

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Speaker 1: So our brains are exhausted. And by our I mean mine,

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Speaker 1: my brain is tired. So I'm like disclaimer everywhere I go, like,

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Speaker 1: by the way, we've been through a lot. I've been

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Speaker 1: through a lot. My brain is tired. And so I

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Speaker 1: think in writing this book. I was bringing that brain

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Speaker 1: to the table, right, because it's the serious cognitive exercise

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Speaker 1: to have the energy and to connect the dots and

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Speaker 1: the emotional pieces, the insecurity of your writing and should

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Speaker 1: I share this or not share this? So it was

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Speaker 1: so much that I was working through and processing through

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Speaker 1: and in writing the chapters that I contributed for this book.

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Speaker 1: And and one of the things that I had to

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Speaker 1: think about and reckon with was really owning the parts

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Speaker 1: of my story that are interconnected with other people's stories,

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Speaker 1: and so how do you publicly share I mean, from

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Speaker 1: a therapist standpoint, we're trained to respect and guard other

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Speaker 1: people's stories, and when I'm writing, I'm thinking about, Okay,

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Speaker 1: how do I share this story and at the same

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Speaker 1: time respect the interconnected stories of the people that are

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Speaker 1: also involved. Maybe I got issues with potentially, but I

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Speaker 1: still have this, I think built into me, this sense

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Speaker 1: of charge to make sure that everyone's story is respected

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Speaker 1: and protected. So that was an extra layer, right, and

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Speaker 1: contributing and writing for this book. Yeah, And I'd love

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Speaker 1: to hear you talk a little bit more about like

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Speaker 1: your decision making around that, because that has come up

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Speaker 1: a little bit in my writing to not necessarily in

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Speaker 1: sharing client stories, but just like in my personal stories.

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Speaker 1: And you know that my book Sisterhood Heals is all

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Speaker 1: about like relationships with other black women. And you're right,

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Speaker 1: I do feel like some stuff has come up around like, oh,

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Speaker 1: so this is my story, but it also intersects with

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Speaker 1: this other sisters story and do I have to have

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Speaker 1: a commerce asian with her before I shared this? So

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Speaker 1: I love to hear maybe from both of you. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this came up for you also a

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Speaker 1: kimmany how you have made decisions about that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I can give you a quick example. So in

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Speaker 1: one of the chapters, there's one called I is Married. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's about grown black women married to grown black man.

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Speaker 1: IM have a background in family systems, but I don't

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Speaker 1: write it. I give a disclaimer early on that I'm

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Speaker 1: not writing this solely wearing my marriage and family therapy

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Speaker 1: had I'm just writing this as somebody has been married

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Speaker 1: for over twenty years to a black man, and and

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Speaker 1: all that we have to work through and how to

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Speaker 1: love each other and honor each other in a world

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Speaker 1: that at times overtly hates black men, and obviously all

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Speaker 1: the dynamics of misogynore, and so what does it mean

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Speaker 1: to love each other and to honor and serve each

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Speaker 1: other when we are spent and we may be trying

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Speaker 1: to pull on each other for things that we're asking

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Speaker 1: the other person to overcompensate for because of the world right,

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Speaker 1: the system, the culture that we're a part of. But

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Speaker 1: in that chapter, I actually talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: my dad, and I tell a story about my dad

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Speaker 1: and I. We usually did all the grocery shopping in

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Speaker 1: the house when I was a kid, and so one

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Speaker 1: of our favorite things to do was put the food

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Speaker 1: away and plan out the meal and chuck it up

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Speaker 1: and laugh. And I remember my dad saying to me,

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Speaker 1: and I talked about this in the book, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you're ever gonna get married. And he said

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Speaker 1: that to me almost like an epiphany. It was a

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Speaker 1: way of saying, like, you're an assertive woman, and there's

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Speaker 1: some truth in what he was saying, although it was

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Speaker 1: still hard hitting and obviously really complex to right. But

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Speaker 1: I had to think about whether or not I wanted

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Speaker 1: to share that story because I adore my dad, but

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Speaker 1: I also knew that in sharing that story it would

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Speaker 1: cause people to think about their own fathers, their own

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Speaker 1: relationship to being fathered, whatever that looks like. And it

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Speaker 1: would also maybe overly paint his personality based on that story,

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Speaker 1: which is what happens, right, If you only know somebody

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Speaker 1: by one tweet or one paragraph, that's all you know

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Speaker 1: about them. And so I adore my dad, so I

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Speaker 1: thought the story was relevant. I still placed it in there,

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Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that people get the sense that we're

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Speaker 1: more than one paragraph or one tweet. But I did

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Speaker 1: share with him a little bit about it. He chuckled,

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Speaker 1: and from that it actually helped me quite a bit

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Speaker 1: to be prepared for the really sexist world. I think

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Speaker 1: he was giving me a piece of wisdom about people

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Speaker 1: are going to expect for you to be a certain way.

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Speaker 1: I see that you are not that way. You are

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Speaker 1: more assertive, and there are gonna be some men who

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Speaker 1: aren't gonna like that. And he was right, He was

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Speaker 1: right about that. But I also wanted to make sure

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Speaker 1: that I presented him in a way that honored that

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Speaker 1: he's more than just that statement in the kitchen, right,

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Speaker 1: What about for you, Kim, we need Did that come

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Speaker 1: up for you at all? In writing? Yeah? It did,

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Speaker 1: actually in a couple of chapters. The first chapter, The

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Speaker 1: Audacious Perseverance of Colorism, the chapter that I wrote, and

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Speaker 1: in it, I do share about my own experience with

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Speaker 1: colorism and really despising my complexion as a dark skinned

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Speaker 1: woman and how that manifested in me skin bleaching, and

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Speaker 1: so in there, I talked about how there was skin

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Speaker 1: bleaching in my home, that the product was actually in

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Speaker 1: my home, and being first generation Nigerian American, it's not

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Speaker 1: uncommon in for skin bleaching products to be in the household,

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Speaker 1: and so just talking about the fact that, oh, my

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Speaker 1: mom had this product, how do you share that? I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the fact that none of my

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Speaker 1: family ever remarked about my skin tone. They never made

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Speaker 1: any type of colorist remarks or anything like that, and

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Speaker 1: never encouraged it, never encouraged it. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: that she was privy to it, honestly, until my skin

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Speaker 1: started to change. Maybe later on, but honestly, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know that she is aware that that was happening.

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Speaker 1: It was happening more so under the cover of darkness.

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Speaker 1: No pun intended on that, But I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: able to share it in a way where it doesn't

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Speaker 1: impute her. But this product wasn't the house, and so

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Speaker 1: I had easy access to it, and so so it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a delicate dance, you know. And even now,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I'm honest, I actually haven't told her

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Speaker 1: that that story sitting there because I was like, but

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Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't go tell mamma. But you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just hard, it's just tough. I can't, I can't deny it.

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Speaker 1: But then I also had a situation where I experienced

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Speaker 1: spiritual abuse in a previous church of mine, and I

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Speaker 1: talked about that in the Colonized Discipleship chapter and I

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Speaker 1: probably would have been well within my right to name

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Speaker 1: the pastor, But for me, I just don't know that

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Speaker 1: that was gonna be beneficial at all. In some ways,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that that aids the healing process my

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Speaker 1: my naming. I can name what happened. I think you

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Speaker 1: need to in order to do that, and I think

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Speaker 1: there's power in naming that and reclaiming that story. But

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Speaker 1: I did not name the person that was responsible for

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Speaker 1: causing harm to me in that particular church. And I

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Speaker 1: did that in some ways because you want to leave

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Speaker 1: room even for people that have harmed you. You You want

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Speaker 1: to leave room for people to grow beyond what they

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Speaker 1: have done. Right, if we think about Brian Stevenson who

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Speaker 1: talks about we are more than the worst thing we

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Speaker 1: have done. So I'm trying to leave room for grace,

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Speaker 1: you know, if that makes sense in that even in

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Speaker 1: that tent, there the real tension there. But I decided

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Speaker 1: not to name that person because I just think it

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Speaker 1: would have been a distraction and then it would have

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Speaker 1: been a weird like controversy and potential controversy. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, nah, but I can name what happened, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't do that because it's my narrative what happened

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Speaker 1: to me. So listening to you both talk and you know,

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Speaker 1: being familiar with the podcast, like there are so many

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Speaker 1: different things that y'all delve into into the podcast. So

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Speaker 1: the book is organized as a series of essays, and

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Speaker 1: it sounds like each of you kind of were responsible

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Speaker 1: for writing several different ones. How did you decide which

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Speaker 1: topics you were going to tackle and what made you

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Speaker 1: decide to do it as an essay format. That's a

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Speaker 1: really good question, and in some ways at the beginning

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Speaker 1: it wasn't quite that organized. It wasn't like, let's sit

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Speaker 1: down at our virtual table because we couldn't be in

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Speaker 1: person right and to really like plot it out. I

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Speaker 1: think in some ways it was you know, what do

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Speaker 1: you have in your cabinets? Like what's in your pantry?

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Speaker 1: Like what do you want to contribute? Because we wanted

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Speaker 1: to create something that felt like there was a degree

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Speaker 1: of ease. Now with that being said, these are weighty topics,

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Speaker 1: and we do you share stories that are connected to

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Speaker 1: our own growth and our own pain and stumbles and

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Speaker 1: all those things, right, But we wanted it to flow

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Speaker 1: out of things that are already in our wheelhouse that

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Speaker 1: we already talked about. And then over time, as we

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Speaker 1: begin to shape it more, it became clear like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there are like three buckets. There's life, there's love, and

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Speaker 1: there's liberation. And thus that helped us to kind of

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Speaker 1: really be able to create the title, right, Truth Table

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Speaker 1: Black Women's Musings on Life, Love and Liberation. And I've said,

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Speaker 1: since we've sent in the last manuscript and you know,

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Speaker 1: things printed now, it's beautiful, it's out there. But I've

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Speaker 1: often talked to a chimney about, you know, I've got

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Speaker 1: like ten other topics that we could have talked about,

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Speaker 1: especially under the life section and even the love section,

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Speaker 1: and certainly liberation as well, but especially that life section.

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Speaker 1: And so there's a part of me that's already thinking

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Speaker 1: about a truth table. Black women's musing two point oh

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Speaker 1: with our words but also an invitation for the words

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Speaker 1: of of other black women to fill those pages. And

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Speaker 1: in this book, you know, you'll see at the very

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Speaker 1: end there's a set of blank pages that says my musings.

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Speaker 1: Because our hope is that after you hear our stories,

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Speaker 1: our stories are really a catalyst for your story, and

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Speaker 1: your story has deep, deep value, and we want you

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Speaker 1: to know that, and we want you to contribute and

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Speaker 1: maybe you'll fill it out and maybe you'll share it

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Speaker 1: with your girlfriends. That anything to end there for Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I think, as we say on the show, see cover that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, honestly, things that truth taper are much more

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Speaker 1: organic than people probably realize. You know, it was really like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the proposal, y'all. Y'all type in your chapters, in

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Speaker 1: your submarines. Honestly, we're just trusting each other to move

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Speaker 1: in our wheelhouses, and that's really what it is. We

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Speaker 1: don't have time to mac or manage anybody, and we're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, if that's what you're feeling in your heart,

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Speaker 1: and if that's what you're on in your mind, saying

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Speaker 1: with your chest, and put it out there. And that's

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Speaker 1: what we did it and it has come together. I mean,

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Speaker 1: for for three different people from three different social locations,

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Speaker 1: with three different writing style to be able to put

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Speaker 1: together a book and then have it harmonized in a

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Speaker 1: way where it's it feels cohesive. That's not an easy

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Speaker 1: thing to do. And so I'm really happy with the

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Speaker 1: way the book has turned out and what we've been

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Speaker 1: hearing so far already from people about how it's stirring

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Speaker 1: some stuff and it's making them go into the deep

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Speaker 1: recesses of their hearts and their minds, some things that

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Speaker 1: put away that they didn't really want to deal with

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Speaker 1: or they didn't even realize they repressed. And so that's

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Speaker 1: why that musing page at the end or pages at

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Speaker 1: the end, it's really really key. I think, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love that y'all included that. And you've already kind of

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Speaker 1: alluded to this committee. What is your vision for how

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Speaker 1: you want your reader to engage with the book? I see,

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Speaker 1: you know, sisters at the table, and the brothers in

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Speaker 1: the standing room section, you know, and our non binary

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Speaker 1: listeners to in the standing room section. I see them

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Speaker 1: picking up this book. I see the marking, the margins.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that you'll be able to not help

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Speaker 1: to do that because there's some stuff and then you're black,

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, like I was dealing with this, but

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Speaker 1: my stuff wasn't that deep, or oh my, what's what's deeper?

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Speaker 1: So there's some piercing questions in there, there's some interventions,

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Speaker 1: and there's some diagnosis that we've given there that some

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Speaker 1: people are not gonna be ready to confess out loud.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is for you and your God, you

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Speaker 1: to go in your closet and go and write, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I could just see people just filling up that

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Speaker 1: musing stage and then hopefully getting the journal and continuing

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Speaker 1: that work, and then just sitting around the brunt table

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Speaker 1: and musing together about this book. I can really see

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Speaker 1: that because I think the topics that we're talking about

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Speaker 1: they're relevant to a lot of people in different social

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Speaker 1: locations and in different places. You know, when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about something like colorism, that's a shameful thing for us

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Speaker 1: in our community, you know, and it's a scolge within

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Speaker 1: our community. That conversation comes up often, right, But it's

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Speaker 1: not something that we are like eager oftentimes to get

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Speaker 1: into because there's a lot of pain and trauma that

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Speaker 1: lives there. So we hope that it helps people to

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Speaker 1: enter into their own narrative and see that it's just

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Speaker 1: as valuable as our own just because we got a book,

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Speaker 1: don't me and ours is more important than your story? Right,

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Speaker 1: more from our conversation after the break, And I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if given me, if you can also staying with the

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Speaker 1: topic that the chapter that you wrote about colorism, that conversation,

430
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: like you said, is a difficult one I think for

431
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: sisters to have, I think with the black community as

432
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: a whole. But it does feel like when you enter

433
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: that conversation, it's just very difficult for people because we

434
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: know that colorism has like a specific definition, right, it

435
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: refers to how darker skinned individuals are treated unfairly because

436
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: of their skin tone. But then undoubtedly there is a

437
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: counter narrative around ladder skin sisters who come in to

438
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: talk about the pain that they've experienced also related to

439
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: their skin color and it feels like it's very difficult

440
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: to kind of have that conversation without somebody's pain feeling invalidated.

441
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: I would love for you to be able to maybe

442
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 1: talk about as people prepare to read this chapter, like

443
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: what kinds of things can they keep in mind to

444
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: kind of ground that conversation. I'm so glad you asked

445
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 1: that this conversation it can be so delicate, and you've

446
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: really got to thread the needle very precisely, you know,

447
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: on this topic. So in that chapter, the audacious perseverance

448
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 1: of colorism in there, even though I am a dark

449
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: skinned woman and who walks through the world as a

450
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: dark skinned black woman here in America, I do give

451
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: a disclaimer in this book that this is not about

452
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: dark skinned versus light skin. I really wanted to be

453
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: very clear about that and make a reference to school days,

454
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: if you know, you know, you know, in that book,

455
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: and I talk about the ways that are light skinned

456
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: sisters also experience and have been harmed by colorism too,

457
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: and the ways that we think about slavery, and the

458
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: ways that we have false narratives about the work that

459
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: light skin enslaved people experience in comparison to dark skin

460
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: enslave people and so that to me, I really had

461
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: to dispel those myths. That was really really important for

462
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: me to do that and to really make sure that, hey,

463
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: this is not some sort of oppression Olympics, y'all. But

464
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: the facts really are the facts. Though there's quantitative data

465
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: here that talks about the ways that the marriage ability

466
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: rates are much lower for dark skinned women, that talks

467
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: about our income levels being much lower for dark skinned women,

468
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: and so that was important for me to lay that out.

469
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: But doing that in a way that does not diminish

470
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: um the experience of colorism. I want to say in February,

471
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: if you remember the drama that happened with Danny Way

472
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: Newton and you know, talking about you know, the roles

473
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: and some privileges that she has had and talking about

474
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: her mother and I had this OpEd I would isn't

475
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: able to land it or to get it placed anywhere.

476
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: But just talking about like, we can acknowledge that light

477
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: skinned women also do experience colorism, not exactly in the

478
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: same ways, but they do experience that. And by saying

479
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: that that doesn't diminish our experience, that doesn't negate the

480
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: quantitative data that shows that we are discriminated in much

481
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: significant and greater ways. But I think we have to

482
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: have room to be able to say that, you know,

483
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: without harming one another with our words and our approach.

484
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: But I think we have to be able to enter

485
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: in and really begin to prepare our hearts and minds

486
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: before we enter into the conversation, because our trauma really

487
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: jumps out. When we have that trauma, we resort to

488
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: black and white thinking and we just cannot do the

489
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: nuance that's necessary in order to enter into such a

490
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: very delicate and difficult and sensitive conversation like colorism and

491
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: Dr Evans and you know in the chap that did

492
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: you refer to earlier as married now you talk about

493
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: the importance of both single and partners, sisters and brothers

494
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: to make sure that they're always doing the work. Can

495
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: you say a little bit more about what that work is? Well,

496
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: A lot of the work is largely work with ourselves,

497
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: right because marriage within like our Western context, is it's

498
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: many things. And one of the things that it also

499
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: is it's a business. You know, there's a lot of

500
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: commercialism and performativeness about what marriage is supposed to be.

501
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: And al confess I for one love a great Black

502
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: Love Instagram post, the endorphans get to move and when

503
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: you see that, right, But with that being said, it

504
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: can cause us to think that marriage and of itself

505
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: is going to be a magic wand it's going to

506
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: meet these deeper needs within ourselves that the other person

507
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: cannot possibly fulfill. And so I think one of the

508
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: most loving things that we can do for ourselves and

509
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: for others is to think about what each other's responsibility is,

510
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: so our wholeness belongs to us and not to our partner,

511
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: not to our mate, and being able to be honest

512
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: about that I think allows people to have less insecurity

513
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: as they move throughout their marriage to one They don't

514
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: end up putting themselves on a pedestal that I am

515
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: the end all be all to to who you are,

516
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: I provide you with meaning. It is a really unhealthy,

517
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: narcissistic way of showing up within a marriage, but it

518
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: also frees people up to be able to bring their

519
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: insecurities and limitations in a vulnerable way to their partner,

520
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: because ultimately, I think that's what most married couples are

521
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: going for. They want a safe place to fall because

522
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: life is hard and so the idea of having someone

523
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: that you can be truly naked with and by that

524
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: not just physically, but like in the sense of rawness, realness, brokenness,

525
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: and that's not used against you, that's not shamed away.

526
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: Within our faith convictions, it's one of the first things

527
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: that happens for that in the Genesis narrative that Christians

528
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: hold to is that when the fall takes place, when

529
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: sin happens, people come for themselves up. And so the

530
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: invitation into new relationship is one in which you do

531
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: not have to cover yourself up. You are free without shame,

532
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: and so that requires being whole within yourself and some

533
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: of that doing the work is right, taking care of

534
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: your mind, your body, and your spirit like it's your business,

535
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: and the other person offering that up as well. And

536
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: I would say in really really practical ways it would

537
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: be different for each person. But to really sit down

538
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: and think about what is my plan? And many people

539
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: have tried to start these at the beginning of a year,

540
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: and like myself, you fall off the wagon a little bit,

541
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: but you can get back on. But what is my

542
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: plan from my own wholeness, my own happiness, so that

543
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: I am not putting that burden on my spouse, but

544
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm free to love them. I can also imagine, you know,

545
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: just again being familiar with the podcast in the book,

546
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: now that this being a tool that like sisters can

547
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: also use in therapy. Right, And so I wonder if

548
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: any of that came to you or came in mind

549
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: for you, Dr. Elemonson, as you were writing about how

550
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: someone might use the work and then talk with the

551
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: therapist about it, or might even spark an interest in

552
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: talking with the therapist about some of the things that

553
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: come up. I have a chapter on forgiveness which I

554
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: thought long and hard about do I want to contribute

555
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: a chapter on forgiveness in this Why? Why? Why did

556
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: it take so long? Why was it to kind? So

557
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: it's so it's kind of like preachers, right, if we're

558
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: writing a sermon, you know that like that's gonna be

559
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: what you're weak is going to be full of. So

560
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: I knew that I had to take stock of issues

561
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: of bitterness and entitled unforgiveness in my life. In that chapter,

562
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: I talk a fair amount about both justice and forgiveness

563
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: and how those things don't have to be in contradiction

564
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: to each other. And I think that's really important for

565
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: black women to be able to hold both of those

566
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: things together, not only experiencing you know, personal slights or

567
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: personal harms, but experiencing systemic harms as black women. And so, yeah,

568
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: it was just important for me to push through that chapter.

569
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: And I there's a part there where I say it

570
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: is better to have my abuser in the hands of

571
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: God than in my mind, and to think about that

572
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: at least, and now obviously that's easier said than done,

573
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: but to think about that in terms of our own

574
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: kind of imagination and imagination of Nope, I'm gonna put

575
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: you in a box, and I'm putting you over here, right,

576
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: which is a visualization work, right, So it offers people

577
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: the opportunity to do that. There's some mindfulness pieces that

578
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: are in that chapter as well, But yeah, I am

579
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: hoping that people will allow it to knock on some

580
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: doors that have been sealed shut and give them the

581
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: strength to peek inside and to reopen up those memories

582
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: and to approach them anew. Right. And that's where we

583
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: can find some healing, is that we can open those

584
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: doors up again and process them anew. I think the

585
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: book offers people the opportunity to have some conversations about

586
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: some things that have been locked behind doors. The last

587
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: thing I would say is there's a theme in there

588
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: about how do we respond to church hurt and spiritual abuse,

589
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: and there's lots of ways, and me and Chimney talked

590
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: about the importance of sharing that story. You know, she

591
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: used her own kind of discernment and discretion about all

592
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: the details that she might share out about her experience

593
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: with spiritual abuse in the church. But one of the

594
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: things that I know in one of the chapters I

595
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: have on disciplining the church is one of the things

596
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: that when we've been harmed, it's so easy for us

597
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: to lose our sense of agency because that trauma, that

598
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: shame can make us so small. But a part of

599
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: our healing could be to remember, actually, you know what,

600
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: we're a little bigger than we remembered, right, and being

601
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: equipped with pieces of agency. And so that chapter lists

602
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: some questions that we can ask of our faith communities

603
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: to make sure that they are safe and ready for us.

604
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: And so I think that is a part of what

605
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: we learn also in counseling, right, is as we experience

606
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: healing and processing, we also get equipped with the skills

607
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: to now be able to test the circumstances that we're

608
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: a part of. Thank you for that. One of the

609
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: things I love most about Truth Table is that it

610
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: does feel like it allows sisters because we know, like

611
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: religion and spirituality is typically very important for a lot

612
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: of black women, right, But I think we also have

613
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: to acknowledge, and you all do a beautiful job of

614
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: acknowledging how religion and spirituality has also kept black women

615
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: small in a lot of ways. And so I would

616
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: love to hear about how you have dealt with any

617
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: criticism related to the Only way I can describe it

618
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: is maybe like an old school kind of approach to

619
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: like spirituality versus what you all described as like liberation, right,

620
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: and how you can stay connected to spirituality but also

621
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: be all of who you are. And so can you

622
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the criticism and how that

623
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: shows up in the book? Yeah, Oh my goodness, that's

624
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: a great question. To do this work, it really takes

625
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 1: a lot of faith, I'm telling you, and not that

626
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: that's in me, but it's really God like holding me

627
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: because in a lot of ways, I'm like, is this

628
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: the life that you designed from me? Lord? Like this

629
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: is not what I had in mind left up to

630
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: me be married with kids in the suburb, being a

631
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: soccer mom. For real, that was my dream for my life.

632
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: I realized that might be a basic dream for some

633
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: other sisters, but that was not a basic dream that

634
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: was like Pine the Sky dream from me, because I

635
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: did come up in the school of the hard knocks.

636
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: When I came to faith, I just had to have

637
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: a very low opinion or a low value for what

638
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: people actually think about me. And I know that sounds

639
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: terrible or odd or weird, but I just really had

640
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: to really really care primarily about what God has to

641
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: say about my life and what God is calling me

642
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: to do. And that caused some very very tough decisions

643
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: and sacrifices that I'm still living with to this day,

644
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: to be quite honest, And it's not exactly the typical

645
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: path to go into seminary as a black woman. It's

646
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: not typical. There are plenty of women that have, but

647
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily typical. And then to go into seminary

648
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: and not to be a pastor right and not to

649
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: be feeling like you were called to preaching. So it's like,

650
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: very early on I had to make a decision like, Okay,

651
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: I cannot worry about what the crowd is saying. I

652
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: really have to care about the one person that's necessary,

653
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: which is God. And so I have definitely dealt with

654
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: a whole lot of criticism, particularly early on with the

655
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: last election cycle. You have racists and sexists, I would say,

656
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: popping off at the mouth about telling me what I

657
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: can do and can't do. And because I'm black and woman,

658
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: and because I didn't really have any models for like

659
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: who do like public theology that looked like me? So

660
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: what do you do? Like? You really do have to

661
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: be dependent on God? And so for me, I just

662
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: those criticisms I learned very on. I just had to

663
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: just pay them no mind, truthfully. And I wish I

664
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: could give people a step by step on how to

665
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: do that. I don't know what it is about my

666
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: makeup to where I can just be like, Okay, I

667
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: really don't care what you gotta say. I know that's

668
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: not easy for other people, but for me, I just

669
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: don't really have a very I don't put too much

670
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: stock in what people have to say about me, as

671
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: long as what I'm doing is being respectful and being

672
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: honorable to other people, right, But as long as I'm

673
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: also honoring God in the process. In this book, I

674
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: felt very free you to write about what I wanted

675
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: to write. And even though there were hard subjects and

676
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: difficult for me to enter into just because of pain

677
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: attached to it and histories and things like that, I

678
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 1: didn't feel any barriers or fear from, say, like critics.

679
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: I just was like, these are things I want to

680
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: write about and y'all will deal. So so I think

681
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: that shows up pretty much in most of the chapters.

682
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: I'd say, more from our conversation after the break, and

683
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: how do you both think that you have been changed

684
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: by writing the book? And also how has your relationship

685
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: with each other changed writing the book. Yeah, that's a

686
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: great question. I was writing this book, editing it during

687
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: periods of time. You know, obviously COVID is happening, but

688
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: I've had COVID twice. So please wear your mask, and

689
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: I am a mask wear by the way, but I

690
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: throw it out there to say that, dr do you

691
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: will understand it's been trained to be a listener, who

692
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: has been trained to connect the dots. You know, it's

693
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: a real high value on one's intellectual ability for the

694
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: purpose of compassion. But most psychologists have a high value

695
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: on intellectual ability for the purpose of compaction, so emotional intelligence,

696
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And so it was humbling to have

697
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: really significant brain fatigue when writing, when editing, when having

698
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: to really think deeply about difficult and emotional and complex topics.

699
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: And I think the freedom I got in that was

700
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: a reminder that I am more than my intellect, which

701
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: is actually a gift, a gift like we are more

702
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: than even what we're known for, and that we have

703
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: an intrinsic value that goes beyond whether we've been known

704
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: as being smart or attractive or social or whatever it

705
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: might be. That even our so called strength, we are

706
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: more than our strength, so we don't have to fear

707
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: losing it or for it being out of commission for

708
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: a while. So a person a level, that is something

709
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: that I took away from a lot of things that

710
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: I've had to engage in, but certainly book writing over

711
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, is having to tap into

712
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 1: a part of myself that's beyond just my intellectual ability

713
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: to connect dots, and that there's a value in that

714
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: as well. And so that was a gift to me

715
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: that was a hard earned, dramatic gift, but a gift

716
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: nonetheless to me. And I learned a lot about the

717
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: sisters at the table, right, so I learned a lot

718
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: about both the Chimny and Michelle, the other co host

719
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: whose writing is in this book. Because you know, you

720
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: think you know your people. This is the same thing

721
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: with family, Like you think you know people and then

722
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: you every once in a while you are surprised by

723
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: their stories and or your surprised not only by the story,

724
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: but maybe you weren't aware of some of the emotions

725
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: or the hurt or what they were thinking at that moment,

726
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: even as you were walking kind of a parallel process

727
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: with them. I think I know both the Kimney Michelle

728
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: really well, but I'm like, oh, we are more complex

729
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: than our friends sometimes. Now, what about for you? I

730
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: feel like I got to see, you know a little

731
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: bit more are about Michelle and Christina things that I

732
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: maybe have known in passing. But I really got to

733
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: get a more intimate view, which was revealing a little

734
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: surprising because some of the topics in the book we've

735
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: actually discussed on the show. But there's something way different

736
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: between talking on the show for an hour. Max at

737
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: least for truth table to writing a book. Chapters upon

738
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: chapters upon chapters, you're talking maybe over fifty pages each.

739
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: You know, if you combine our chapters together, we each

740
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: route four. And so I just got to see more

741
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: layers and more dimensions to them both, not to say

742
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: that I saw them as one dimensional people, but it

743
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: just was like wow, like you get to learn so

744
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: much more, just even about birth stories, origin stories, you know,

745
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: like Michelle does a beautiful job of writing her origin story.

746
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: I think it's in the Protests as Spiritual Practice chapter.

747
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: It was just a very revealing and poetic and just

748
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: really beautiful. And then just Christina with Forgiveness, which is

749
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: a very difficult chapter. That one was like a who, God,

750
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: I gotta read about forgiveness. Okay, forgiveness. Somebody got somebody

751
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: that they gotta forgive or they need forgiveness giving to them, right,

752
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: and just seeing just even her own heart for that,

753
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: and then reading about you know, her experience as a

754
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: married woman who's been married for over twenty years, and

755
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: and just how they came together at their HBCU and anyway,

756
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: I've just learned so much about them. And then for

757
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: myself even in this process of writing, I've been able

758
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: to observe my own growth, particularly with my own self

759
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: image and embracing my self image. I'm very honest in

760
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: this book, more honest than I wanted to be. If

761
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm honest, I've told way more than I wanted to tell.

762
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: But just talking about how I really struggle with my

763
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: self image and loving myself well into my twenties, and

764
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: it was really really a struggle, and especially somebody who

765
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: grew up in California as a dark skin black woman,

766
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: and and just seeing my own growth and like really

767
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: loving who I see in the mirror and in appreciating

768
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: God's creativity. You know, that's something I just couldn't have

769
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: said about ten fifteen years ago. And that's not a

770
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: small thing. Even with my own chapter with the Hidden

771
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: in Plain Sight, a single Black Woman's Manifesto, and it

772
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: is a manifesto, y'all. It is the longest chapter in

773
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: the book. But even in that chapter, just coming to

774
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: a place where I'm like, well, I'm still single, and

775
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 1: I'm a lifelong single, So talking about how I've never

776
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: been in a relationship and just even in that seeing

777
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: the growth and just like there's no bitterness there, but

778
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: there is a righteous anger right because I make the

779
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: argument about how like, no, this is like these things

780
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: have been designed systematically to preclude or exclude, I should said,

781
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 1: black women from marriage in the ways that they're on

782
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: their parts are able to get married, and more so

783
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: if you're a dark skin um black woman. But even

784
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: just seeing where I've come to, like a level of acceptance,

785
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'm content, yet dissatisfied, still praying, still asking

786
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: the Lord to move in that way. But if God does,

787
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, marriage is not life and death

788
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: is it's not food and water. I will not die

789
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: without it. I might feel like that, but without it.

790
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: And so just coming to it like an acceptance. And

791
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: I can say that as somebody who's knocking on forties

792
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: door a year old a chamity would be like, oh no,

793
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: uh that can't be that like this just no, this

794
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: is not my portion, and so I look, no, Sis,

795
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: well currently that's where you are. Still, Let's accept it.

796
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: Let's continue to move on and do all the wonderful

797
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: things that you have to do and offer, you know,

798
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: to this world. Yeah, so nca emmonson, what do you

799
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: feel like you are most proud of? About the book

800
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: in this entire process. Oh wow, that's a good question.

801
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: I am proud of many things, but yeah, you said,

802
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: what's the thing. So I think whenever we have an

803
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: opportunity to see a group of black women working together

804
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: to achieve a goal, fanning each other's flame, cheering each

805
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: other on, excited for each other's success, and just putting

806
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: their brain power, their prayers together for each other, I

807
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: think that's a win. And it pushes back on these lies,

808
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: right that we cannot get along, that we cannot work together,

809
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: that everything is a competition, right, And so this is

810
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: probably one of the least competitive projects that I've participated in.

811
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: It's like what you got, what you bring into the table, okay.

812
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: And it reminds me of being, you know, an undergrad

813
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: and you know when we were like flat outbroke, and

814
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: I would call up my sorority sisters and I was like, okay,

815
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: well how much money you got we can can we

816
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 1: get to Walmart? And that was gonna be like spaghetti

817
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: dinner night. Okay. So we were all putting together our pennies.

818
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: Somebody had enough gas money to go to Walmart and

819
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: then we made a meal and we all ate in

820
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. I feel like I'm always enliven

821
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: when I see us able to do that. So, you know,

822
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: twenty plus years later, I'm like, what you got? What's

823
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: the best you have? And we have more to contribute now, right,

824
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: we have more than like you know, the one dollar

825
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: turkey role from Walmart? Right, but we now have you know,

826
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: our academic backgrounds, our stories, our tears, our prayers, are wins,

827
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: our losses. The things were still waiting on, but we

828
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: were able to put that together. And I'm really proud

829
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: to show that that black women can work together and

830
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: create something as we have done for generations. And so

831
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: that is probably the proudest point. What about Yes, you know,

832
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: I would say ditto to all of that. So there's

833
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: a lot of books coming out, you know this, Dr Joy. Honestly,

834
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: I think the people can be overwhelmed. If I'm honest,

835
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: I can say this as a as an author. Now,

836
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: I think that you know, the flood of books coming out,

837
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing. But I think there

838
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: are a lot, right, I think sometimes people can hit

839
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: the fatigue. So I think what I am proud about

840
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: with this book, I'm proud of a lot of things.

841
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: But I think I'm proud that Truth Table. I think

842
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: we're doing something different, right. I think that when you

843
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: think about church women, which is where we are, right,

844
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: when you think about faith, you know, in religion, I

845
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: think sometimes people tend to think there won't be any depth.

846
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes people think it will be something.

847
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 1: I think they have like a caricature sometimes in their

848
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: mind of what to expect, or that it is just

849
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 1: gonna be, you know, some little surface level Bible study

850
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: or something. But I think Truth Table is doing something

851
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: categorically different, particularly with the topics that we're talking about.

852
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 1: The things that are on the table, like divorce, something

853
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: we've not actually talked about on the show, but it's

854
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: discussed at length in this book Colors, and we've talked

855
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: about on the show, but not at the same level

856
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: of depth that's in this book with like our actual

857
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: narratives inserted in their singleness. Yeah, we've talked about it,

858
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: but we haven't talked about it in this way, you know,

859
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: and to the degrees that we're talking about it, talking

860
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: about disciplining the church, what does it look like to

861
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: hold the church accountable? And as people who who the church?

862
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: But we're like okay, but we can rightly see it

863
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: like no, we got our own here, and this is

864
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: where we need to course correct. I mean, where else

865
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: do you get to see all of those things come together?

866
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: And then just talking about under this thread of Pan Africanism,

867
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: I would say even just that the unity of blackness

868
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: within the diversity of blackness, I think it's something very

869
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: different that you're getting there. So I'm proud of the

870
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: ways that we've been able to move in from different

871
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: discipline psychology, history, sociology, theology, pop culture. There's a lot

872
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: of pop culture in their musical references, because music is

873
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: really important to Truth Table. As you know our theme song,

874
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's like originally created for a truth Table.

875
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: And so I think there's something really really rich going

876
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: on here with Truths Table, and something that I think

877
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: I hope people will be able to go back to

878
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: and be like, oh my goodness, like I need to

879
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: go back there, I need to mark, I need to

880
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: hopefully cite, I need to you know, wrestle with this

881
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 1: more because hopefully they feel like they're to really really

882
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: rich offering I hope in this book. So one final question,

883
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: and this is for my own writing journey. What advice

884
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: would you give to me and other authors who are

885
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: kind of embarking on this writing journey. What what words

886
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: of wisdom would you import for us? I would say

887
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: slow and steady wins the race. And so just every

888
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: day you're just putting words on the page and not

889
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 1: psyching yourself out. I mean, you'll learn a lot about

890
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: to what degree you are a perfectionist right in a

891
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: writing process. But the discipline of saying I've got two

892
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: hundred words that have to be written today, or I've

893
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: got four hundreds that have to be whatever that number is.

894
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: And then I would also say, understand your body and

895
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: how your brain works so that you can create reasonable expectations.

896
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: So you know, you got your power snacks or whatever

897
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: the time of the day needs to be. But you

898
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: want to shape your world a little bit to the

899
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: extent you can around supporting your writing goals so that

900
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: it's not you know, there's so many things that they

901
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: particularly black women, we are stretched so thin. But this

902
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: is one of the things where you want to sit

903
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: down and take a breath and say, Okay, how do

904
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: I for the next month, try to make my schedule

905
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: respect what I need to get done, and I think

906
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: we have to give ourselves permission to say and I

907
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: need my schedule to respect my goals. Anything you did, Yeah, well,

908
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: I would say it takes a village to write a book.

909
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 1: We talked about the solitude that's required and how lonely

910
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: it is to be a writer because it's you and

911
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: that whatever your devices, if it's voice notes, or you

912
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: in the laptop or you in a notebook, whatever your

913
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: medium of writing is or your preferences on that, you

914
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: need support. I needed support because because I'm also a

915
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: caregiver and so I was, you know, stretched, you know,

916
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: really at capacity when it was time for us to

917
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: write the book and we didn't have quite as much

918
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: time as I thought we were going to have, and

919
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: I was like, my goodness, I was like, I cannot

920
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: get this done if I don't have that. I'm grateful

921
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: for my mom who was able to come into town

922
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: at the perfect time so that I can get some

923
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: relief on the caregiving side so that I could sit

924
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: down and write. And then as a writer, I do

925
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: have some perfectionistic tendencies. And this is also where my

926
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: village comes in with Michelle and Christina, who were telling

927
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: me just get out of your head, just put it down,

928
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: like what you're feeling, just write it, you know. I

929
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: was just telling him, I was like, I'm struggling to

930
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: write this chapter. And they were like, what right that

931
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: I am struggling this because and name why and that

932
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: is what. That is what I actually did. And so

933
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: for that one and probably the colorism one, where I

934
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: was like, these are the reasons why it's hard for me.

935
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: I feel some trepredation around these issues, and so it

936
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: forced me to really write in a way that it's

937
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: not quite as academic as I typically right, but in

938
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: a way that's more personable. So yeah, I would say,

939
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: bring yourself to the table, bring yourself to the writing space,

940
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: your full self, whatever you're feeling, just go ahead and

941
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: write it. But also recognize that it takes a village,

942
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, so set yourself up, you know, delegate, bringing

943
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: the friends who can help support, family, your partner, whoever

944
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: you need to help to support and lift some loads

945
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: off so that you can have the capacity and freedom

946
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: to write. That would be my advice. I love that.

947
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for sharing. So tell us

948
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: where can we buy our copy of Truth Table and

949
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: where can we stay connected with both you and the

950
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 1: book and you know kind of stay abreast of any

951
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: new information y'all will be sharing. Well, thank you for

952
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: having us, Dr Joy. Y'all can buy Truth Table, Black

953
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: Women's Musings on life, Love and Liberation. We hope y'all

954
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: love the cover. We hope you love. You can buy

955
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: it wherever books are sold, and you can pre order

956
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: the book online. You can go Amazon, Bookshop, Target, Walmart,

957
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 1: Barnes and Nobles, or you can go to your local

958
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: bookstore and go and purchase the book. And then you

959
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: can follow Troops Table at on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook

960
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: at truth Table myself. You can follow me at syste

961
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: Theology on Twitter and on Instagram and on Facebook. Yeah,

962
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: I did as to all that stuff. Wherever books are sold,

963
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, you can get this book. And yeah, you

964
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at Dr c Edmondson and

965
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: Instagram as well. And we do have a Black Woman's

966
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 1: Discipleship group, So for any listeners who identify as Christian

967
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: or sort of kind of Christian, they're like, what's up

968
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: with these people? We welcome you into that Black Woman's

969
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: Facebook Discipleship group and where we have speakers come in

970
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: vertus all virtual Facebook stuff, and we got pop culture

971
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: topics that we picked up. You know, we had a

972
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: we had a fascinating time talking about Will Smith and

973
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: Chris Rock recently. So that was that got everybody's attention, right. So,

974
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: but you don't get those conversations, that's very very in group.

975
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: You don't get those conversations unless you're inside that Black

976
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 1: Woman's Truth Table Facebook discipleship group. So we welcome you

977
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: the black women who would be interested in that perfect Well,

978
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: it has been such a pleasure to hear more about

979
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: the book. I'm so excited for you both, and I

980
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: hope that our community will support you all and grab

981
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: a copy and continue these very important conversations. And so

982
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: thank you both for being here. Thank you, Dr Joy,

983
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: Thank you for your endorsement of the book to us.

984
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, of course, thanks so much, Dr Joy, You're welcome.

985
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: A huge thank you to Dr Edmondson in a chimmittee

986
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: for joining me today. Be sure to grab your copy

987
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: of Truth Table at your local bookstore and text this

988
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: episode to two of your girls right now so they

989
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: can check it out as well. If you're looking for

990
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, be sure to check out

991
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

992
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: Sash directory. And if you want to continue digging into

993
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: this topic or just be in community with other sisters,

994
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.

995
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet design just for

996
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,280
Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy

997
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by

998
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis and editing was done by

999
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: Dennis and Bradford. Thank you all so much again for

1000
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: joining me for this special bonus episode. I look forward

1001
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take

1002
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: it here. What M