1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That's our Man of the Hour 4 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: super producer mister Max Williams given. 5 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: Up for Man of the two hours late, which is 6 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: my fault. That's not a nickname. That should go to you, Max, 7 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 2: that should go to me. 8 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 3: I am never late to anything. 9 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 4: Have you guys ever seen me be late to anything? 10 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: Only you only once, and you were super weird about it, well, 11 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: at the very least, super apologetic. 12 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: But I can't even recall the time you're talking about, Ben. 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: This is a me issue. I'm traveling. I was at 14 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: a place that was slightly unfamiliar or new to me, 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: and the internet crap the bed, and then I had 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: a hotel situation but it wasn't ready. So I do 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: come to y'all hat in hand from a coworking space. 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: So if y'all hear some New York types I having 19 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: meetings in the background, that's what's going on. But otherwise 20 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: it's pretty empty right now. But I'm knowl and you're Ben, 21 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: and you're champion and a scholar and a sport for 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: putting up with my shenanigans. 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: Ah, absolutely no sweat, zero perspiration, folks. That is indeed 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: the legendary mister Noel Brown. They do call me Ben 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: Bolin and the folks. We get on the road often 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: and we have shenanigans, and we're pretty upfront about it 27 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: when you know, Nol. There have been times I was 28 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: stranded in Japan, her Korea, and we kept the japandit. 29 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: I love it. Japan did. So. We are scattered across 30 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: the world often and one thing that always takes us 31 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: back home, all three of us, is a little town 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: called Atlanta. And Guys, I gotta tell you, there's this 33 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: old joke that really bothers a lot of us. When 34 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: tourists say it in Atlanta, they go, wow, every street 35 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: is named peach Tree something. 36 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: Well, they love to make that one. And they also 37 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: just love Hot Lanta. 38 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Hotlanta. 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: And I don't know why it runs that's the wrong 40 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 2: way as locals, but it does. And I can't put 41 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: my finger on it. But the whole peachtree thing, there's 42 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: some truth to that, but also not to the degree 43 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: that people say, yeah, it feels like late late nineteen 44 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: eighties lazy stand up. 45 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 5: You know, I went to Atlanta. I wanted to go 46 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 5: to Peach Tree. The cab driver said, which one? Anyway, 47 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 5: what's next the my airline food? 48 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. 49 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 6: Ben. 50 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: By the way, it's speaking of peaches and George Georgia 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: Atlanta centric stuff. 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 4: We are known elsewhere in. 53 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: The country because there's a diner in Queens, New York, 54 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: where I'm staying that is called the Georgia Diner, and 55 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: it has a big old neon peach. 56 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 4: Haven't been. 57 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: Don't know what constitutes a Georgia's style diner. We're not 58 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: exactly known for our diners. Seems like more that's a 59 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: Queen's thing or a New York thing. But an odd 60 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: flip if if you will. 61 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: That is cool. I appreciate you pointed that out, because 62 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: we know that Georgia is still called the Peach State, 63 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: and it's it's it's weird if you've never visited our 64 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: fair metropolis. Uh, we've got a lot of stuff going 65 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: on where the little city in the forest that could 66 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: but our little conturbation has a lot of interesting things 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: going on street wise, in specifically now you got as 68 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: a recall, our old office was at a place called 69 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: Pont City Market, and if you walk just a few 70 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: blocks away from where that is, you can take a 71 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: left on a street that will be called Briarcliffe on 72 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: the same street. If you turn right, you're in a 73 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: whole different place called Morland. It is the same actual street. 74 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 4: You know, Ben, you may have seen this meme as well. 75 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: I think it made national memes spheres, not just local, 76 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 2: though I do love local memes. Where it was a 77 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: picture of like the New York City grid, you know, 78 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: and you know, it's very makes a lot of sense, 79 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: and then a picture of Atlanta and the nonsensic called 80 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: street arrangements that we have, and then the New York 81 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: one said because you know, of course, and Atlanta was like, because. 82 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: You and this obviously, even now as we're recording on 83 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: June fourth, twenty twenty six, it can be confus as 84 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: heck to people who are not familiar with this urban 85 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: design quirk. If we're being diplomatic, especially imagine you're a 86 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: tourist Noel back in the let's say nineteen seventies. 87 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: God forbid, right for GPS before smartphones. 88 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: Right right, and you inevitably will end up at the 89 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: wrong place in the city. So Our question is, while 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: the hubbub bub it turns out that there is a 91 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,799 Speaker 1: story behind this, it is as disturbing as it is ridiculous. 92 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: Before we continue, bro, I know we all hate to 93 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: do this with outsiders, but we have millions of people 94 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: tuning in. Can we just tell them about the Peachtree thing? Oh? 95 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 2: We must, And by the way, you know, to kind 96 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 2: of go against the whole it's not that big a 97 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: deal that we were saying earlier. 98 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 4: You mentioned our last office at Pont City Market. 99 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: The one before that was definitely on Peachtree out in Buckhead. 100 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 2: So according to the Atlanta History Center, seventy one streets 101 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: in Atlanta are named with some form of the word Peachtree. 102 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: And that's a lot. Okay, maybe we downplaated it a touch, 103 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: a lot of street. Let's get there. The most famous 104 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 2: Peachtree on the list is, of course, you guessed, at 105 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: Peachtree Street, which runs from five Points, not to be 106 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: confused with little five points different downtown. Yeah, Atlanta through 107 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: Midtown and it is just a couple of blocks after 108 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: you enter the neighborhood of Buckhead, which is almost like 109 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: its own kind of community in a way. So this 110 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: makes the street, one of the longest in Atlanta, running 111 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: around six point two miles. 112 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, and since, as we said, Georgia is known as 113 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: the Peach State, to the point where if you have 114 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: a voting sticker anytime you vote in an Atlanta election, 115 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,679 Speaker 1: your sticker has a Peach audit and it says I voted. 116 00:06:54,040 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: Uh so, no, it's I secured my I did after 117 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: passing a bunch of non controversial voting laws. 118 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 2: Max, I'm gonna give you a minute to dig this 119 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: up or you might know it off the top of 120 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: your head. 121 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 4: But have we done a Georgia episode in our states? Series? 122 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 4: Have many? We only have one. 123 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 3: We only have one state left. 124 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 4: Which is what Yeah, New Hampshire. 125 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: Max phones. 126 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 6: Drops in the knowledge just for you. 127 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 4: So there we go. 128 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: What were our previous Georgia episodes? If you don't mind 129 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: me asking, I will go back perfect. 130 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, great, we've got a list going courtesy of the 131 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:49,119 Speaker 1: legendary Maxwell Williams. We also know, okay, Georgia is called 132 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: the Peach State, and we could all be forgiven for 133 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: thinking all these roads named peach Tree is just a 134 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: case of well meaning branding gone overboard. But there's so 135 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: much more to the story you know, Nola, as you 136 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: and I were talking about a few years ago off air. 137 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: Like every other town in the United States, Atlanta is 138 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: built on indigenous land. 139 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 4: That's right. 140 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: In Atlanta's case, the land belongs to the Muscogee peoples, 141 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: also known as the Creek. The Atlanta History Center once 142 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: again it's the Muscogee had a settlement. 143 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 4: This isn't their words. 144 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 2: The Atlanta History Center folks at the convergence of Peach 145 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 2: Tree Creek and the Chattahoochee River or the Hooch as 146 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: we like to call it, shooting the Hooch, that's when 147 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: you go tubing way. 148 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: I never knew how much it. 149 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: Meant to be that muddy water. It learned how to swim, 150 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: and I learned who I was about. 151 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: It little, just a little about love, just a little bit, 152 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: just like second base, a little oh no. 153 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 4: Just hand stuff. 154 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 5: Uh. 155 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: The Muscogee word for the site is let me share 156 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: my best here pakanahuy Pakanahuili, which translates roughly into English 157 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: as standing peach tree. 158 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: And please note some sources will attribute this to the Cherokee. However, 159 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: for our purposes, we're going with our friends at the 160 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 1: AHC Atlanta History Center. As they tell us, the Muscogee 161 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: peoples used a series of well established paths for long 162 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: distance traveling, and one of those led east from standing 163 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: peach Tree the English translation, until it terminated at a 164 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: trail of the Muscogee peoples. So it kind of makes 165 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: sense that people would keep using the original names as 166 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: the city expanded. But this also means that the idea 167 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: to name streets and trails after peach trees is older 168 00:09:58,360 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: than the city of Atlanta. 169 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 4: You know, I think that's cool. 170 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: Actually, at least it means that because Atlanta is known 171 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 2: for not being the best steward of its own history 172 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: in terms yeah, at least in terms of architecture and 173 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: just kind of bulldozing the old stuff and building up 174 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: some kind of you know, crappy news stuff. But this 175 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: is a good example of like, you know, carrying the 176 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: the legacy of of of of pre Atlanta through you know, 177 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: our current history. 178 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, go in, go in next, go in hard. I 179 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: need a hot take. 180 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 3: All right, Well it's it's it's not a hot take. 181 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 3: It's actually an utter buzz kill. So get ready for this. 182 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 3: So how the pitch dock works is it's more the 183 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 3: not going to have that tracks these things. It's more 184 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 3: to keep track of, like when we've mentioned the state, 185 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: basically being like, we don't have to do an episode, 186 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 3: so only had one Georgia one in there, which was 187 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 3: MLK and Co Cola, But we also have other episodes 188 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 3: about when that's when the tree owned itself. 189 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 4: History is centric. Okay, well those are some good ones. 190 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: Though way more than I have right here. Off I 191 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 3: can find quickly, but we definitely have more than one 192 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: episode about Georgia. 193 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: And we greatly appreciate you. Let's do the sound cue 194 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: Max with the ves second time here we go, all right, well, no, Max, 195 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: choose one. So all of the Atlanta streets cold Peach 196 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: Tree today or some derivation thereof, can attribute their names 197 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: to Peachtree Creek. This creek flows southwest through Dacab and 198 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: Fulton Counties and then it joins the Chattahoochee River just 199 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: south of Vinings. And the history here gets pretty ugly. 200 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: We got to go to the War of eighteen twelve, 201 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: and we promise we're going to the future with us one. 202 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: Do we have to? We have to do the War 203 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 4: of eighteen It's such a bomber. 204 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: It's our remit it is a bummer. 205 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: All right, all right, let's do it. You see, during 206 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: the War of eighteen twelve, as the AHC puts it, 207 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: the white settlers of Georgia were in direct conflict with 208 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: the Muscogee tribe, who leagued up with the Brits against 209 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: the United States, and the State of Georgia decided to 210 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: erect a series of bases forts, if you will, from 211 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: which to fight the Muscogee onslaughts, And that included Fort Peachtree, 212 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 2: which was built on the high ground that overlooked Standing Peachtree. 213 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 4: Remember that original one that had the native name. 214 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: That's uh yeah, paka Nahu. 215 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 4: There you go, Standing. 216 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: Peachtree, Standing Peach Tree. And fast forward one year, these 217 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: folks completed work on a pre existing trail from the Muskogee. 218 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: This trail connected Fort Peachtree to Fort Daniel. There was 219 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: a similar outpost at the ignominiously named Hog Mountain in 220 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: Gudet County. Sorry, I being a child, I know, but 221 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: they copied the stuff that they copied, the trail, marking 222 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: that the Muskogee peoples had already established hundreds, if not 223 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: thousands of years before. This is a relatively insignificant Road. 224 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: It eventually becomes called Peachtree Road. And if you go through, 225 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: of course, the western expansion, you will see that white 226 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: settlements were pressing for more and more indigenous land. Native 227 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: territories were AHC is going to tell you they were obtained, 228 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: but we can say it correctly. They were stolen through 229 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of fake treaties or fraudulent treaties. 230 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 4: Dirty deals done dirt cheap. 231 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: Not made in good faith, for sure, and the first 232 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: Treaty of Indian Springs was signed in eighteen twenty one. 233 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: This resulted in the Muskogee Nation seeding four million acres 234 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: east of the Flint River that includes the future site 235 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: of what we call Atlanta today. By the end of 236 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty seven, all Muskogee territory within the state of 237 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: Georgia had been in Uncle Sam's opinion, lost yeah. 238 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: And then in eighteen thirty seven, the southern terminal of 239 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: the Western and Atlantic Railroad Companies or railroad lines were 240 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: constructed about seven miles from that standing Peachtree location and 241 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: just a hand for scy hop skip and a jump 242 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: a stone's throw from the end of the peach Tree trail, 243 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: and as the rail railway workers along with settlers and traders, 244 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 2: began to set up camps and homes and you know, 245 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: soon more permanent businesses. It became sort of a settlement 246 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: in the town. This is when I believe it was 247 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: referred to as Terminus, which you'll recall any fans of 248 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: The Walking Dead from when it was good, is what 249 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: they referred to Atlanta as, or at least there was 250 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: that encampment that they came across, you know, our our 251 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 2: heroes at the time called Terminus. 252 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that part of The Walking Dead also filmed 253 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: here in Georgia. Terminus. 254 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 4: The original need had it referred to the railway. 255 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: Etymology of it is that that's where the railway ends. 256 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 4: Met Oh, got it ended? Okay? I thought it was 257 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 4: like that makes sense, Yeah, that makes perfect sense. 258 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: We know that in eighteen forty three this area becomes 259 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: called Martha'sville. 260 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: Martha'sville sounds so quaint and homey. In eighteen forty five, 261 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: Martha'sville underwent a name change again to become Atlanta. 262 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: They love changing names here, we do. 263 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: What was the way I've always I think we've maybe 264 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: talked about this is Atlanta a reference to like. 265 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: Atalantas it's a reference to at Atlanta. 266 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 4: Which is another Native people. 267 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: It's a reference to Greek mythological huntress at Atlanta. 268 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: And another version of that, I think, according to an 269 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: engineer by the name of j Edgar Thompson, was the 270 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: Atlanta came from the feminine form of Atlantic and had 271 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 2: to do with the references to Western and Atlantic lines. 272 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: So again similar to what they're trying to accomplish with Terminus, 273 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: but maybe a little less severe sounding. 274 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a little less brutalism atam Mala. And yeah, 275 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, the Western and Atlantic railroad, huge deal 276 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: for this growing city. Atlanta itself is somewhat anomalous in 277 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: the history of cities because it does not have coastal territory. Right, 278 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: It's not by the sea, where in a time when 279 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: most people were trading via the ocean, right or via 280 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: large navigable rivers like the Mississippi the Chattahoochee was okay 281 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: for a minute, but right now I have to tell 282 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: you guys, Atlanta's historical trade routes are not rivers, they're 283 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: not oceans. They're railroads, and then later they become airports. 284 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: We have the busiest airport on the planet. Depending on 285 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: how you you. 286 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: Knowatoya Jackson Industrial Spaceport. Oh Man, just kidding, that's just 287 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 2: my favor location tag for it. If you ever go, 288 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 2: it's Hartsfield Jackson International Airport. But I love LaToya Jackson Spaceport. 289 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: And as the as Marthasville becomes Atlanta, it also becomes 290 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: again pre Civil War, one of the most vital economic 291 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: crossroads in the region. Its most well known street. As 292 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: we said, established first as a trail by the Muskogee peoples, 293 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: it has become one out of seventy one of the 294 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: most famous streets in the region. Time goes on, right, 295 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: and some of these streets doubtlessly get renamed either in 296 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: honor of notable locals or decisions by the local population, 297 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: or as a result of new construction. And to be 298 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: fair so that we don't sound dismissive or rude, this 299 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: happens in pretty much every single American city. Also be 300 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: a really sweet way to commemorate people who have made 301 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: a positive impact on your town, your neighborhood, your state, 302 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: your country. It's symbolic, but it's pretty cool. Mayors in 303 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: a special love this. 304 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, as helpful as it might 305 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: be just logistically speaking to maybe just have one street 306 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: named Peachtree. Changing the names of the other seventy wouldn't 307 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: just be an inconvenience at this point, it would also 308 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: be expensive. Think of all the infrastructure, the signage, Think 309 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: of the signage. 310 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: You haven't thought of the signage, Think of everybody having 311 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: to change their address with any recurring bill. As a result, 312 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: we're kind of stuck with what we've got at the moment, 313 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: at least for now. And we're saying at least for now, 314 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: because Atlanta has a deep, deep history with changing the 315 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: names of streets, and they have this deep history not 316 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: for particularly noble reasons. 317 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 4: It's not for funzies. 318 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: It's not for funzies. I wish it was for funsies. 319 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 4: No, it's not. 320 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: It has to do with the stitutional racism. 321 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 1: There's a guy named Leon Epplin who back in nineteen 322 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: eighty five wrote something called Race and the Shaping of 323 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: twentieth Century Atlanta. And one of the pull quotes you've 324 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: got to hear from this one ridiculous historians, is this, 325 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: there are virtually no major decisions that are made in 326 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta that do not have a racial 327 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: factor built into it. Everything has a racial component. 328 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 4: Yep. 329 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 2: This is especially true during Atlanta's rebuilding after you know, 330 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 2: it got burned to the ground when the South lost 331 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: the Civil War, when you know, the Sherman's March to 332 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 2: the Sea and all of that good stuff, and the 333 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: echoes of this, as you put it, Ben in the 334 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: lovely outline that you created for this topic, coordinated segregation 335 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 2: stayed with us to this day. 336 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, nol history is a palimpsest. Atlanta is no exception. 337 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: So after the Civil War, we see a lot of 338 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: black African American residents begin moving to Atlanta in large numbers, 339 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: and they're pursuing opportunities, you know, work, school, community. A 340 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: lot of folks are also honestly hoping to connect with 341 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: family members they were separated from during chattel slavery. There 342 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: are new city dwellers who are arriving at this time. 343 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: They create their own communities, neighborhoods like Reynoldstown, which we 344 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: all love to hang out in. It was founded in 345 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy by former slaves working for the railroad. So 346 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: when this influx of black home and business owners move 347 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: closer to the white areas, the white residents not all 348 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: of them, but some of them, to be honest, a 349 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: lot of them. They work to create racial distance. This 350 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: obviously comes with the real world's realities of hate crime, oppression, 351 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: racial violence. But there's another aspect to it that fascinates Noel, 352 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: Max and myself, folks. It is this superficial, symbolic, often 353 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: cartoonish case of just naming the same street twice. 354 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 4: What right, yeah, and go ahead and put it out there. 355 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: Now, there's a dang going on, some kind of alarm 356 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 2: somewhere in this co working space. I think Max is 357 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: going to do his darnness to get it out. But 358 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 2: if you hear it, that's what it is, and I 359 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 2: do apologize. But according to Paul Krater, also of the AHC, 360 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: the Atlanta History Center, he is their vice president of 361 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 2: Collections and Research Services, and says that there are multiple 362 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: examples of this thing that you're talking about, Ben, the 363 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 2: cartoonish renaming of streets. For example, in the nineteen sixties, 364 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: part of Southeast Atlanta's Whiteford Avenue I used to live 365 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: off of Whiteford was changed to Memorial Terrace. 366 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 4: I love an avenue versus a terrace. 367 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 2: Not the whole street, but just a part of it, 368 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: which references back to what you were talking about there 369 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 2: at the top about how like, why is it that 370 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 2: on one side of the of the tracks it's called 371 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: one thing and then it changes to something else. Well, 372 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 2: here's why. I not that's unusual in other cities. But 373 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: it is a little bit wide rife, as our buddy 374 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 2: franklised to say here in Atlanta. 375 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, wide rife. And I didn't know that we both 376 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: lived on Whiteford at a time, but I do remember, Hey, 377 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: we hung out at your house. 378 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 4: Actually it was on It was just it was like off. 379 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 2: It was like, you know, right there behind where the 380 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 2: Kroger is, kind of near a little five points. 381 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: I yeah, it's happened to all of. 382 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 3: Us lived off of Whiteford as well. I'm sitting here, 383 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 3: I'm like, there's a couple of streets named Ford something. 384 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 4: Now I has wife heard it? 385 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, got two o's Weirdly enough, ed r 386 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 6: pal Creator's explanation for this is distressing, bonkers and pretty sad, 387 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 6: he notes. 388 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: Quote in the past, white citizens of the city decided, 389 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: through official channels to change the name of the street 390 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: because they did not want their neighborhoods to be associated 391 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: with African Americans who are moving in areas close to them, 392 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: and Creter traces us back to nineteen thirteen. 393 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 2: Wait, so hence white food where you think we might 394 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: have done something about that one by now, But yeah, no, 395 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 2: palimpsest meaning a manuscript that gets written on top of 396 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: and then erased and then written over and over again. 397 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 2: That is certainly what Atlanta is and history. So Creator 398 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: traces this whole kerfuffle back to nineteen thirteen when he 399 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 2: says the first sign the modern racial discrimination in housing began. 400 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: We've talked, certainly on this show and our sister podcasts 401 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: stuff you missed distric Class, plenty of episodes on this 402 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 2: concept of redlining, you know, housing zoning that is inherently 403 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: racially motivated, and of course redistricting, gerrymandering, you know, as 404 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: far as changing voting blocks that can also be pretty 405 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 2: darn racists. And now we just had a situation in 406 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 2: the United States where we had some almost reverse jerrymandering 407 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: to try to give some power back to some you know, 408 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: minority communities that was then overturned by the pretty problematic 409 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 2: Supreme Court. 410 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 4: That we've keep sitting at the moment, right. 411 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, agreed, we also know that nineteen thirteen is 412 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: the same year where an Atlanta City Council member named 413 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: Claude Ashley tries to segregate neighborhoods by race create something 414 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: called the Ashley Ordinance. This meant that the city would officially, 415 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: as a governmental power, ensure that various blocks will be 416 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: segregated again by race. Thankfully, just a few years later, 417 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: this policy made its way to Georgia's Supreme Court. Quick 418 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: backstory for anybody not familiar with the US. All of 419 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: the United States, they have to follow the federal Supreme Court, 420 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: but each state also has its own Supreme Court, and thankfully, 421 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: Georgia's Supreme Court ruled this Ashley Ordinance unconstitutional. It was 422 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: the first attempt to codify segregation. But Creator notes if 423 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: an official policy did not do the trick, these powerful 424 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: white decision makers do not hesitate to go around the 425 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: law through various means. They're waging a gariea nimbi war 426 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: in local politics and business circles. They would to make 427 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: sure that their spaces, their addresses are not associated with 428 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: black people. 429 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: Right, some of these white residents were absolutely scandalized by 430 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 2: the thought of having to have the same street name 431 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 2: on their mailbox as a black family, even if that 432 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: house was just a couple of blocks away on the 433 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 2: very same street. So to these folks, that few blocks 434 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 2: away was may as well have been on the moon 435 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 2: and should have been considered, as far as they were concerned, 436 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 2: a different neighborhood, one that they would never enter, the 437 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: bad neighborhood, right, and it should be reflected as such 438 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: in any and every way possible, including address and map designation. 439 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, absolutely, I mean not. 440 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 2: That like neighborhoods aren't still a divisive thing, right, Like 441 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: neighbor I mean, you know, it's yeah, none of this 442 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 2: stuff is like particularly it has gone away. And you 443 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: could argue that in at and other parts of the country, 444 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 2: of course, that there are still racial divides in neighborhoods, 445 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 2: though some of them maybe are less imposed by government 446 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: and maybe more historical. Because of these things, these these families, 447 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 2: you know, they tend to gravitate towards these neighborhoods where 448 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 2: they were forced to live. And then generationally those are 449 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 2: the types of people that live in those neighborhoods. 450 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: And now they're being gentrified. 451 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 4: Well, that's also true, and that's its own problem. 452 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 2: Because it's like you put people there in the first 453 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: place because you didn't want to be around them, and 454 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, now where they live is 455 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 2: more valuable to you. And by you, I just mean 456 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: you know, folks in power, and typically that means white folks. 457 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: Shout out to the belt line. 458 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 2: With shout out to the Beltline. And to be fair, 459 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: they have they have seemed to begin to follow through 460 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: with some of the affordable housing initiatives they promised. But 461 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: we'll see proofably in the putting Anybody's not from Atlanta. 462 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: I am Jack's lack of. 463 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,719 Speaker 2: Optimism understandable, and I'm not I'm just being Devil's advocate 464 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: and saying that there is I know some people who 465 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: work in city planning here in Atlanta and are down, 466 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: you know, do nonprofit work, and I have talked to 467 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: some folks that seem to think that there are there 468 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 2: is some good work being done in that direction by 469 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: good folks. But in general, the belt Line is this 470 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: connected rail lines that have been repurposed to connect different 471 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 2: parts of the city, and of course it becomes like 472 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 2: a shopping corridor, sort of like the High Line in 473 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: New York City, and the idea was that it would 474 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 2: be a great connector and a great way to connect 475 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: different neighborhoods. So now there's a part of the belt line. 476 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 2: I believe it's the West side belt Line that is 477 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: not gentrified yet, and it's a real stark contrast to 478 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 2: the part that's been being developed for many years. 479 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: And I'd love to shout out Ryan Gravell, the great 480 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: architect of Atlanta's beltline. He came up with this while 481 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: he was studying at my alma mater, Georgia Tech. 482 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 4: Oh cool, I didn't know that. 483 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And look, of course, the practice of an 484 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: idea is rarely as good or as ambitious as the 485 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: germination of an idea. But the beltline is awesome. I 486 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that we are all big 487 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: fans and we hope you get some time to hang 488 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: out there. It's very big in Atlanta to have a 489 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: walkable environment. These folks back during the back during the day, 490 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: these racist folks had to be careful, or they had 491 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: to at least pretend that rebranding street names was not 492 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: due to racism. They didn't want to play their hand 493 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: too openly. They didn't want to put their ulterior motives 494 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: on the written record. So if you look at a 495 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: lot of the documents pertaining to these name changes, you're 496 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: not going to see any genuine reason. Given we got 497 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,719 Speaker 1: to go back to our pal creator. He was speaking 498 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: with CBS News and he said, look, this doesn't mean 499 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: there aren't examples. There could be examples in newspapers or 500 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: other documents from the time that say this explicitly. 501 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 5: But I. 502 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: Can only point to the documents that I have found 503 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: that certainly imply that the reasons for these street name 504 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: changes were because of racial discrimination on the part of 505 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: white people. And a lot of other experts agree. 506 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 2: So the Apex Museum president and CEO, a guy named 507 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: Dan Moore Junior, confirms that these things would happen pretty regularly, 508 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: these types of shenanigans. He notes that the white residents, 509 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: even if they were the minority in their area, would 510 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: often go cry into the city council, you know, waving 511 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 2: around petitions demanding that a street's name be changed. 512 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are again plenty of weird examples that 513 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: stay with us today. As we said at the top, 514 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: Moorland Avenue and Boulevard, two streets that frame historic Reynolds 515 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: Town from the west and East. They have their names 516 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: changed to Briarcliffe Road and Monroe Drive as you cross 517 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: poncet Lyon Avenue. Other streets where you can see the 518 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: same thing include Parkway and Charles Allen Drives, Central Park Place, 519 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: Argone Avenue, and Cortland Street. Cortland Street changes to Juniper 520 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: Street the further north you get. And while the official 521 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: records of the time may never explicitly state this, fellow 522 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, there is literally no other reason than racial discrimination. 523 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: That's it. That's the only reason you would go through 524 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: this stupid inconvenience. 525 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 2: Well right, and it wasn't just limited to city streets. 526 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 2: Even the highways and byways and the interstates got affected. 527 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: In the nineteen fifties while planning Interstate twenty, Mayor William B. Hartsfields, 528 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 2: who the spaceport is named after, said that he envisioned 529 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: this corridor, which is the main east west interstate in Atlanta, 530 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 2: as a quote boundary two of the biggest broadest air 531 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: quotes possible between the white and Negro communities. 532 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you had to do that quote. 533 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 2: No, it's okay, man, Its history and it is ridiculous. 534 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: And we want to be accurate, and eventually this situation escalating. 535 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: So these white residents were no longer satisfied with name 536 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: changes on the street Memorial Terrorists, Whiteford, what have you. 537 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't enough for them. So they went back to 538 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: the mayor, the city council, the other policy makers, and 539 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: they had a new pitch. They said, build us physical barriers. 540 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: We have black people living the same streets as the fights, 541 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: and we've got to we've got to fix this. So 542 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 1: the city erected literal roadblocks, or they would stop paving 543 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: a road. And that's part of why Atlanta has, especially 544 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: around I twenty, Atlanta has a lot of weird, dead 545 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: end streets. It's because these folks were literally telling the 546 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: city to block the roads. 547 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, blockades. 548 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: Something called the Atlanta Wall was actually built in nineteen 549 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 2: sixty two, approved by the mayor at the time. Ivan 550 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 2: Allen Junior has got a lot of roads named after 551 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 2: him as well. This wooden barrier divided the white in 552 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: the black neighborhoods of Cascade Heights and it's just you know, 553 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 2: you point up been utterly petty. 554 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, so petty, it's the same street. Luckily, this debacle 555 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: gets citywide. The national attention. It gets so much opprobrium 556 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta at this point and beat me here, 557 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: Max is looking like a bunch of Grade A assholes. 558 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, thank you. 559 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 2: And again when you look at the map, compare it 560 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 2: to a city with the planning that was laid out 561 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: based on ergonomics. 562 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 4: I guess it's for lack of a better. 563 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: Term, And you look at Atlanta that whole you know, 564 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 2: fu thing really does make sense and it's few black people. 565 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, this is true, and it happened all around town. 566 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: We're happy to report that after just seventy two days 567 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: of public outcry, the infamous Atlanta Wall of Cascade Heights 568 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: was torn down. But again, palimpsess right, that's why you'll 569 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: still run into odd name changes and weird dead end streets. Luckily, 570 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: experts like or Alfha mentioned Dan Moore can tell us 571 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: that some streets in Atlanta have been renamed to honor 572 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: prominent non racist people, civil rights leaders especially. This makes sense, right, 573 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 1: We're the home of doctor Martin Luther King Junior. 574 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 2: Of course, and it's there as well as Ebenezer Baptist Church, 575 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 2: and you know, prominently displayed signage and plaques, and you know, 576 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 2: there is a lot of good work done to honor 577 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 2: the history of Atlanta that surrounds the civil rights movements, 578 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 2: and a lot of things that are the antithesis of 579 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,479 Speaker 2: the kinds of petty racist acts that we're talking about 580 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 2: in today's episode. More notes. If you're looking for street 581 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 2: names now, you ought to understand who those people are. 582 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 4: Joseph E. 583 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 2: Boone, Lowry, Donald Lee Hallowell. Those are street names that 584 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 2: mean something, So do yourself a favor in Google all 585 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 2: these folks. They've got stories in and of themselves that matter. 586 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: We also know that at least three Atlanta streets have 587 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: been renamed. They were formerly Confederate. They had the word 588 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: Confederate somewhere in the names they were. Official story is 589 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: these streets like Confederate Avenue. I know you and I 590 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: spent some time there. They were not named after the 591 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: Confederacy of the Civil War, but they were named after 592 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: a nursing home for Confederate veterans in the area. Still, 593 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,240 Speaker 1: this reminded a lot of people of some very nasty stuff, 594 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: So we want to shout out a grassroots campaign called 595 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: Neighbors for a new name. They successfully, Just like those 596 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: racist dudes earlier they successfully went to the city council 597 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: and the mayor and they said, please change these street names. 598 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, some pretty interesting stuff happened. 599 00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 4: That's right. 600 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, Mayor Keisha lance Bottom signed a bill 601 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 2: that officially renamed a. 602 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 4: Lot of these streets. 603 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,919 Speaker 2: In November twenty nineteen, Confederate Avenue became United Avenue, East 604 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 2: Confederate Avenue became East United Avenue, and Confederate Court became 605 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: Trestletree Court for the nearby apartment complex. 606 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: Oh and speaking of the Confederacy, hoof Stone Mountain. Okay, folks, 607 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: we know, we know, we know, a. 608 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 4: Bit of a blemish. 609 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, beautiful park, beautiful mountain, but the tattooed 610 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 2: on the side not good. 611 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is still Jesse. No, folks, this is a 612 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: letter from home, from us to you. The city of Atlanta, 613 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: which we love dearly, is arguing to this day about 614 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: whether to replace the sculpture of Confederate soldiers. Was something 615 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: more fitting and a lot of people wanted to be. 616 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 4: Outcast South Scots something to say, South. 617 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: Scott something to say. 618 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 2: And the third yes, yes, the motion passes weekend. 619 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: Thank you enough for tuning in this is obviously a 620 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: hyper local story for us, because we, like you, were 621 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: baffled when we realized there were so many Peachtree streets 622 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: and there were so many strange streets that seem to 623 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,800 Speaker 1: change their names. 624 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,479 Speaker 4: You know what, hyper local to us. 625 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 2: But I think a lot of this stuff really does 626 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: fit into the greater history of this country and Atlanta. 627 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 2: You know, it looms large in other ways that we 628 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 2: sometimes living there take for granted. 629 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 4: So we hope you enjoyed it. 630 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, we hope you visit us sometime soon. This is 631 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: one of the is one of the most inviting cities 632 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: in all of the United States. We've got some non 633 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: racist Atlanta street origin stories that we're going to share 634 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: with you in the future. Things we didn't get to episode, 635 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: but we on an end by giving you one quick 636 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: off the books locals guide to Atlanta. Folks, no matter 637 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: how you get here, whether you land on a plane 638 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: at Heartsfeld or whether you drive in, you have to 639 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: realize everybody is going to speak to you as though 640 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: they are vaguely related to Okay, how includes us, that 641 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: includes the three of us? 642 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 4: Is there any maybe I'm missing something? 643 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 2: Is this like about like language, like vernacular or just 644 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 2: a hospitality and. 645 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: Just the approachable thing. You're in a line at a 646 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: gas station or a grocery store, the person in front 647 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: of you or behind you is going to say something 648 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 1: like that's true. Oh it's mister shoes, And they're not 649 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: saying your shoes are bad. 650 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 2: There's just I think maybe the kind of thing that 651 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 2: folks from the East might be taken aback by. I 652 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 2: was just going to be referred to as kind of 653 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 2: like a certain familiarity. 654 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: Familiarity again, like everybody is vaguely related to you. I 655 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:13,760 Speaker 1: always tried to warn especially my Eastern European or Scandinavian friends, 656 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: you know, they think it's weird to talk on an elevator. 657 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: They don't understand that it's rude here at Atlanta not 658 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: to say something like noh, you know, wo is it 659 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,840 Speaker 1: really floor fourteen and then have a little chuckle. 660 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 4: Precisely. 661 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,439 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in, folks, Big big 662 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,839 Speaker 1: thanks to our super producer mister Max Williams. I've been 663 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: your research associate for this episode. Big big thanks, by 664 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,399 Speaker 1: the way to you, mister Noel Brown, in particular, you're 665 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: on the road and we talked about this off air 666 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: and you were like, Ben, no, we can't publish a classic. 667 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: We got to get the word to the people. 668 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 2: We gotta do it, man, We got to spread the 669 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 2: good word of our hometown out to the good people 670 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 2: of the ridiculous history community. And you know, thankfully, if 671 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to give a thanks or a shout out, 672 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 2: it's to whoever made that beep go away, because it 673 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 2: did seem to subside. I think it was some sort 674 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 2: of alarm, not that kind of be Max, not that 675 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 2: kind of be Max. It was much more of a clason, 676 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 2: a bit of a like a like an air raid siren, an. 677 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: Alarm clock or yeah, if it was. 678 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 4: An alarm, guys, or a fire drill thing. 679 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 2: It was very lackluster because it was just kind of incessant, 680 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 2: and you know, I didn't have an urgency, just very obnoxious. 681 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 2: But it did go ay, so hopefully he didn't have 682 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 2: to deal with that too much. But y'all, thanks for 683 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 2: working with me, and thanks to everybody for making this 684 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 2: happen and everybody out there for tuning in. Thanks to Johnava, Trickling, 685 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,839 Speaker 2: the quist A, j Moahammad Jacob's the Puzzler, the Quister. 686 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: The Incessant beep of our hearts and heads overdue to 687 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:00,320 Speaker 1: reappear soon. Spoilers, we may have the legendary see you 688 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: on the case Pegram returning for a future conversation and 689 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: true story. 690 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 2: I'm definitely gonna have the fine folks over a ridiculous 691 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 2: crime on for another collab episode. 692 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, if you dig us, you will dig 693 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,800 Speaker 1: those rude, rude dudes. Also, big thanks to Chris rossiotis 694 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 1: Eve's Jeffcoat here in spirit ed no again, man, Thanks 695 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: to you. It's such a rop to look at it. 696 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: They have a history and think of all the places 697 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: that you and Max and I have visited in person. 698 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 4: All the places we'll go. Thanks to you, Ben for 699 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 4: the research on this one, and we'll see you next time, folks. 700 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 701 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.