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Speaker 1: Look, if I could just call up the most wanted

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Speaker 1: man in Greece, I wouldn't be sitting here hosting a podcast.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no shade the podcast, but like I would

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Speaker 1: have at least two lambeaus and be eating shrimp all day.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Nobody, and I mean nobody has seen Vasili's Paliocosta since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, when he pulled off that brazen

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Speaker 1: helicopter escape from a high security prison near Athens. In

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Speaker 1: his absence, though, a legend has grown, spreading from backwoods

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Speaker 1: towns to urban centers and even onto some strange corners

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Speaker 1: of the Internet. Like even today, people still tell stories

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Speaker 1: about his generosity, how he robbed banks and billionaires, sharing

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Speaker 1: the wealth with ordinary Greeks. It occurred to us that

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Speaker 1: if we're going to get some real traction with our reporting,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to get inside this guy's head. CSI

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Speaker 1: him a bit piece together, a psychological profile of the

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Speaker 1: man at large.

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Speaker 3: When you're working on a story and you're trying to

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Speaker 3: understand why or how something happened, sometimes you have to

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Speaker 3: go to the person's society considers to be the bad guy.

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Speaker 1: That's investigative journalist to durisrodro Janos, who he spoke with

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Speaker 1: in the last episode. So Duris has covered crime in

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Speaker 1: Greece for years, and he told us that criminals aren't born,

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Speaker 1: they're created.

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Speaker 3: Anyone can cross the line criminals on to category of

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Speaker 3: bad people who were born bad and die bad. It's

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Speaker 3: something that's much more dynamic. It can happen to anyone.

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Speaker 1: As our team in Athens began digging into Vasilis's past,

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Speaker 1: trying to trace his path from a rural mountain villager

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Speaker 1: to Interpol's most Wanted man, we came to understand that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just that something happened to him. Someone had

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Speaker 1: happened to him.

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Speaker 3: In the case of Costas Samaras, we have a man who,

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Speaker 3: in the eyes of the law, is a bad person.

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Speaker 1: He's a criminal. We kept hearing that name, Costas Samaras

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Speaker 1: back in the late eighties. Samaras became a sort of

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Speaker 1: mentor to our Robin hood. He taught Vasili's how to

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Speaker 1: be a criminal, how to pick locks in hot wire cars,

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Speaker 1: but more importantly, he also taught him what kind of

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Speaker 1: criminal he should be. We heard this directly from people

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Speaker 1: who knew the guy.

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Speaker 2: Then that.

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Speaker 1: Samaras was what you would call an intellectual outlaw.

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Speaker 4: He had a point of view online. He wasn't a thug.

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Speaker 4: He didn't abuse anyone, he didn't kill anyone. He didn't

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Speaker 4: have blood on his hands.

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Speaker 1: That's our producer Christina translating for Costas. Argyrosis Kostas is

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Speaker 1: a journalist who grew up in Samaras's hometown of Tricola.

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Speaker 1: He knew the guy back in the day and remembers

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Speaker 1: hanging out with him at local clubs and stuff. He

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Speaker 1: told us these guys won people over with their principles

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Speaker 1: of nonviolence and some good old fashioned wealth redistribution.

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Speaker 2: Heyan mithistom.

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Speaker 4: They helped local people where they could with other people's money,

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Speaker 4: of course, which was the product of robberies. And they

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Speaker 4: were charming. That's why we're interested in them now. There

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Speaker 4: was a mystery and romance about them.

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Speaker 1: That cloak of mystery and romance has become Vasilis's best disguise.

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Speaker 1: Costa Samaras gave him that to get closer to Vasilis,

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Speaker 1: we needed to get closer to Samaras. But Samaras has

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Speaker 1: been in and out of jail himself. The people who

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Speaker 1: used to know him. Well, they're not so close anymore.

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Speaker 1: So Daphne and our team in Athens started following Leeds

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Speaker 1: in three Colo.

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Speaker 5: One phone number led to another, then another and another.

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Speaker 5: But then the days went by and we just really

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Speaker 5: weren't sure it would happen.

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Speaker 1: Then, just as the team's getting desperate, Daphne's phone lights up.

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Speaker 2: Shit, it's Samaras.

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Speaker 6: Daphne.

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Speaker 1: A man with a thin voice is on the other line.

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Speaker 1: It's Costas Samaras, and he wants to talk from Kaleidoscope

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Speaker 1: and iHeart podcasts. I'm Miles Gray. This is the Good

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Speaker 1: Thief Chapter one, the mentor.

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Speaker 5: So at first, Samaras was quite evasive on our calls.

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Speaker 5: He wouldn't really say much. But when we told him

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Speaker 5: that we were planning on driving up to three gall

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Speaker 5: in a few days, he did seem willing to plan

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Speaker 5: a meetup. So he asked us a our plans and

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Speaker 5: where to meet, which I thought was really encouraging. But

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Speaker 5: then every time we tried to lock down a time

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Speaker 5: for an interview, he ended up bailing.

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Speaker 1: But we had someone US's attention, and before long he

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Speaker 1: turns the tables. Now, yes us, Now he's calling us daily,

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Speaker 1: dangling the interview in front of us, paying with us,

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Speaker 1: and then one day he.

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Speaker 5: Asked us something strange. He asked us if we'd be

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Speaker 5: willing to take his granddaughter with us up from Athens

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Speaker 5: so that he could see her. It sort of goes

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Speaker 5: without saying, but when I got a call from one

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Speaker 5: of Greece's most famous criminal masterminds, I didn't really know

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Speaker 5: what to expect, but I definitely didn't imagine I'd be

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Speaker 5: offering my services as a chauffeur. That kind of made

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Speaker 5: me confident that he was starting to warm up to

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Speaker 5: us or trust us in some way. We didn't end

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Speaker 5: up taking her with us in the end, but we

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Speaker 5: did offer the interview.

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Speaker 1: Dance continues for a and then in April of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two.

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Speaker 6: I guess I have served in twelve or thirteen different

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Speaker 6: prisons in Greece.

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Speaker 1: Some of us sits down with us. Daphne and the

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Speaker 1: team meet him at an office where he works at

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Speaker 1: as an office administrator part of a prison rehab program.

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Speaker 1: It's after business hours and they're alone.

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Speaker 5: He's sixty three, with a kind face, small glasses, snowy

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Speaker 5: white hair, and a beard. He certainly didn't strike as

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Speaker 5: as a career criminal who spent twenty one years in prison.

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Speaker 5: When the interview itself started, though, and we actually hit record.

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Speaker 5: Each time we asked him a question, his eyes started

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Speaker 5: darting around as if he was sizing us up, trying

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Speaker 5: to gauge our motives before giving us an answer. I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 5: this is going to be a short interview.

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Speaker 1: Daphne did not want this to slip away, so she

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Speaker 1: keeps asking questions.

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Speaker 5: And you change lots of schools, different cities. Did you

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Speaker 5: play in any band?

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Speaker 1: Trying to warm him up.

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Speaker 5: So what was the first robbery? And did you have

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Speaker 5: weapons with you?

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Speaker 1: And then after this period of stonewalling us and trying

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Speaker 1: to decipher our motives, his mood just shifts.

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Speaker 5: So Manas cracked open a bottle of fruit juice. He

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Speaker 5: doesn't drink or smoke. It's one of his principles, he says.

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Speaker 5: And then he leaned forward, grabbed a sheet of paper

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Speaker 5: and began doodling, sketching random patterns and shapes as he

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Speaker 5: was speaking. And for the next forty five minutes he

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Speaker 5: didn't really look up from that paper. It felt like

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Speaker 5: he'd suddenly disappeared from the room, like his memories had

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Speaker 5: put him in some sort of trance, and that's when

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Speaker 5: he started telling us the story from nineteen ninety one.

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Speaker 2: Probably stay again.

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Speaker 6: So the first roldbody was in me and Vasilis.

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Speaker 5: The first time he and Vasilius Bolo Costas robbed a bank.

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Speaker 1: Chapter two, Puppy Luff. It all started in the autumn

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Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety one. With a string of petty robberies

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Speaker 1: under their belts, Vasilis and Samaras were cooling off in

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Speaker 1: the northwestern city of Ioannina, and that's when they decided

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Speaker 1: to try something bigger. The city is not far from

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Speaker 1: the border of Albania. It's a scenic place too. You

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Speaker 1: got four story apartments, narrow cobblestone lanes. Some of us

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Speaker 1: knew that bank robberies didn't happen much up north and

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Speaker 1: figured that a robbery in these parts would take people

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Speaker 1: by surprise. So the two wander around Iowanina searching for

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Speaker 1: a target, and as they're milling about downtown on one

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Speaker 1: of the city's busiest streets, that's when they lock eyes

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Speaker 1: on Embodi Qui bank.

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Speaker 2: Gage on the main street of just opposite the courthouses.

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Speaker 1: The challenge made these guys laugh a small business district

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Speaker 1: with the courthouse and central police station of stones throw away.

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Speaker 1: It was like the city was daring them to try.

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Speaker 1: The town's geography made the challenge even tougher. In the

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Speaker 1: early nineties, troubles were boiling over in nearby Yugoslavia, so

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Speaker 1: the city was teeming with Greek military personnel. Most crooks,

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Speaker 1: they would have read the room, run the numbers, and

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Speaker 1: just moved on to the next town. But Vasilis and

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Speaker 1: Samaras red flags were their idea of fun. First step

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Speaker 1: was a costume change.

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Speaker 2: Do you having parties for less?

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Speaker 6: We had taken camouflage military uniforms and jackets and dressed

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Speaker 6: like a captain and a lieutenant.

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Speaker 1: The military presence, they figured, wasn't a deterrent, It was

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Speaker 1: actually an advantage. If you're wearing a T shirt and

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Speaker 1: holding a submachine gun, you look like a danger to society.

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Speaker 1: But if you're in a military town and holding that

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Speaker 1: same weapon with a uniform on, well, now it just

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Speaker 1: looks like Tuesday. Once they nailed the look, they stole

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Speaker 1: a handful of vehicles and scattered a few getaway cars

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Speaker 1: throughout the region, and.

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Speaker 6: After killing we used a car we had stolen from Athens,

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Speaker 6: and the second car we had was a zip it,

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Speaker 6: just in case we needed to go to any mountains.

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Speaker 1: This was one of some of US's early lessons to vasilis.

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Speaker 1: Always have multiple escape routes and multiple getaway cars.

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Speaker 6: Look, I was concerned about the details. I'm not like

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Speaker 6: these others who operate most spontaneously, with no methodology, no

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Speaker 6: foot I won't even leave a pin where it shouldn't be.

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Speaker 1: They checked out the twisty roads north and mapped their getaway.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't just the two of them now. They'd

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Speaker 1: also picked up a straggler, a little puppy.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we had the puppy in the jip, which was

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Speaker 6: found in the city of Cerres.

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Speaker 1: Months earlier. The pair had found a stray black and

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Speaker 1: white Greek shepherd whining in the bushes. And you can't

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Speaker 1: claim to be bank robbers with a heart and then

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Speaker 1: just abandon a puppy, so the dog joined the crew. Naturally,

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Speaker 1: turns out the dog was a hell razor. It loved

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Speaker 1: to chew up the car seats and jump out the window.

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Speaker 1: So you know, Vassili's fell in love immediately. The pupp

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Speaker 1: was a rebel, a dog after his own heart. They

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Speaker 1: became inseparable. The morning of the heist, the men parked

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Speaker 1: their getaway car a half mile from the bank and

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Speaker 1: lock the dog inside. Now before you, even as trust

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Speaker 1: me wasn't hot and they would never put the dog

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Speaker 1: in harm's way, The dog is fine. Then they slip

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Speaker 1: into their phony military uniforms, grab their weapons, and wait

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Speaker 1: for the bank to open. At eight am, they swing

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Speaker 1: the door open. Vasilis has a shotgun and Samaras he's

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Speaker 1: got an uzzi, wandered like soldiers. The clock starts ticking.

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Speaker 2: Vasilis went in first. I followed.

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Speaker 1: So Vasilis points the shotgun at the bank teller and

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Speaker 1: throws him a bag. He gestures to the vault and

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Speaker 1: tells him to fill it Upas he's standing by the

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Speaker 1: entrance cradling his uzi, he watches as the teller stuffs

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: into the bat.

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Speaker 6: The saving she filled the back back until he didn't

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Speaker 6: fit any more money. It took just a half minute.

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Speaker 1: The teller gestures to Vasilis that he can't fit any

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Speaker 1: more money into the sack. Vasilis lets him know, don't worry.

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Speaker 1: We're not greedy. Then he grabs the bag and the

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Speaker 1: two men stroll onto the street like nothing happened. They listen,

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Speaker 1: no sirens, just a gentle pitter patter of rain. This

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Speaker 1: is Vasilis's first bank robbery, and it seems to have

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Speaker 1: gone off without a hitch.

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Speaker 2: We got in the car and drive out of you.

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Speaker 6: With then right before leaving the city and enter another neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: That's where we left the zip. We part next to it,

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Speaker 2: open the door, and just as.

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Speaker 1: Things feel like they're going great.

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Speaker 2: The puppy jumps out and it starts running around.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is not the time to cause chaos,

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Speaker 1: but the puppy is zooming up and down the street.

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Speaker 1: He wants to play. Vasilis tosses the loot into the

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Speaker 1: car and waves for the dog to get in, but

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Speaker 1: the puppy holds its ground. Vasilis walks toward the dog,

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Speaker 1: but the closer he gets, the more the dog runs.

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Speaker 2: We called it. It did not come. It thought we

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Speaker 2: were playing again some of us.

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Speaker 1: His stomach drops. He hadn't accounted for this. He and

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Speaker 1: Vasilis start begging the dog please please come with us.

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Speaker 1: Sirens are waiting sounds are echoing off those cobblestones. Vasilis

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Speaker 1: and some of us frantically gestured to the dog, chasing

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Speaker 1: after it in tandem, but the dog keeps prancing away.

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Speaker 1: The sirens are getting louder, and some of us starts

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Speaker 1: to panic.

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Speaker 2: Let's leave it, I said, we're wasting times here. We

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Speaker 2: have to leave.

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Speaker 1: Samaras swings open the door and steps into the getaway car,

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Speaker 1: but Vasilis hesitates. He looks at the dog, still wagging

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Speaker 1: its little tail. As the sirens grow closer. He gets in.

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Speaker 2: The abums on the puppy, get into the drip and drive.

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Speaker 1: Driving out of Ioannina, Vasilis is completely consumed with guilt,

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Speaker 1: not because he just robbed a bank, his first ever,

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Speaker 1: but because he just lost his little sidekick. But maybe

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Speaker 1: there's even a lesson in here. Spend enough time with

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Speaker 1: Costa Samaras, and even a harmless little puppy will turn

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Speaker 1: into an escape artist. Chapter three portrait of the artist

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Speaker 1: as a young man. Reporters have called Costa Samaras the

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Speaker 1: Artist because of the elaborate heists he crafted, but according

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Speaker 1: to his old friends, he also came by the nickname

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Speaker 1: honestly in his twenties, he dabbled in Cubist painting, and

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Speaker 1: that was when he wasn't playing the drums and bands

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Speaker 1: around Tricola. And even when we met with him, he

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Speaker 1: was most comfortable when he was doodling on the page.

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Speaker 1: But his greatest masterpieces have always been the blueprints he

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Speaker 1: drew up for robberies and jail breaks. Sadas routinely used

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Speaker 1: his drawing skills to sketch plans for his heists. One

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Speaker 1: time he even sculpted his own gun, whittling it from

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Speaker 1: a piece of wood. Growing up, his family was always

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Speaker 1: on the move, going from one city to the next.

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Speaker 1: We've been told that in the absence of a stable

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Speaker 1: home life, art and literature in particular helped ground him,

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Speaker 1: offered him comfort. One book in particular spoke to him.

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Speaker 6: I read it at the age of twelve, thirteen Papillion.

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Speaker 6: It felt so authentic to me. It's an autobiography of

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Speaker 6: an illegal Frenchman who is sentenced to life in prison

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Speaker 6: for murder, and he has the it for freedom. He's

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Speaker 6: looking to become free at all times. It affected me deeply,

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Speaker 6: this idea that you don't have to accept the faith

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Speaker 6: that the others impose on you.

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Speaker 1: Samaras was one of those kids who refused to take

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Speaker 1: no for an answer. He was smart, liked to gain

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Speaker 1: the system, and it wasn't long before he started applying

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Speaker 1: his creativity to petty crime.

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Speaker 2: He prot the skinnesses.

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Speaker 6: I started out stealing books and records, just trying my

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Speaker 6: hand at.

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Speaker 1: But just shoving in lp under his coat. That wasn't

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Speaker 1: his style. Instead, the young someone us invented this contraption,

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Speaker 1: a small box that looked like a present with wrapping paper,

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Speaker 1: which had a secret compartment that he could slip stolen

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Speaker 1: records into.

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Speaker 6: Before long, my friends asked for the book so that

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Speaker 6: they could still records.

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Speaker 2: Two so I let them, and of course they got caught.

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Speaker 6: Now what kind of feeling does that give the kids

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Speaker 6: starting out on this path. There's a satisfaction when you

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Speaker 6: can do something that others can't do easily.

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Speaker 2: That is how it started.

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Speaker 1: Some of us fell in love with the thrill, that

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Speaker 1: delicious rush of adrenaline of stealing and getting away with it.

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Speaker 1: Committing crimes was fun.

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Speaker 2: During the day. I could be painting.

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Speaker 6: At night we could be playing music, and then I

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Speaker 6: could go and do a breaking.

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Speaker 1: But his skill is some of us was at creating

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Speaker 1: deceptive little inventions and planning petty robberies. Perhaps his greatest skill,

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Speaker 1: The thing he excelled most at was reading a room.

300
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Speaker 1: Somehow some of us honed an uncanny ability, almost a

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Speaker 1: sixth sense, to detect people who lived on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the law. One day in the late seventies,

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Speaker 1: some of us was at a pub in tri Colon

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Speaker 1: went across the room. He spotted another young man, a

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00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 1: guy with a strong Mountain accent, and immediately he felt

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Speaker 1: this kinship he.

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Speaker 6: Was subconsciously, you recognize it from how a person moves around.

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Speaker 6: So I don't know if it's like that in other things,

309
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 6: like if an accountant when I recognize another accountant, or

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Speaker 6: an architect another architect, But he gave me this feeling.

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Speaker 6: I figured, this is someone who doesn't think much of

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Speaker 6: the low so I started talking to him.

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Speaker 1: That man was Vasilis's big brother, Nicos Palio Costas. It

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00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: didn't take long for some of us to realize that

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00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: his instincts about Nicos were right, but their origin stories

316
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 1: were completely different. Where some of us committed crimes for

317
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 1: the thrill, Nkos was driven by circumstance. Chapter four in

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Speaker 1: the valley of the clefts. Nicos and his younger brother

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Speaker 1: Vasilis grew up miles from the city, under the peaks

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Speaker 1: of the Pindus Mountains, the spine of Greece. It's a

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Speaker 1: pastoral place, studded with ramshackle huts.

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Speaker 3: Imagine a village without a trace of outside culture. Big

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Speaker 3: tall mountains, an endless horizon between ravines, this wild beauty

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Speaker 3: that's indescribable.

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Speaker 1: That Stelios Catagjorgos. Today he's a museum director in Tricola.

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00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: But like the Paliocostas boys, his family lived off the

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Speaker 1: land in the Pindus. He actually knew them growing up,

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Speaker 1: and as he tells it, living there is not easy.

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Speaker 3: So the children become adults so young they don't have

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Speaker 3: things like toys, and as soon as a child is

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Speaker 3: strong enough, there's no way they'd be able to sit

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Speaker 3: at home while dad worked. They'd be put to work too.

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Speaker 1: Astelios put it, this sort of life hardens people, and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just Stelios who took notice of how hard

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Speaker 1: the Paliocostas has had it. Nico Celeppis was a classmate

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Speaker 1: of the brothers. He remembers how Vasili's only had one

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Speaker 1: pair of clothes to where to school.

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Speaker 4: It was clear to Celets that the costas family didn't

339
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 4: have much money. Lastus always came to school in the

340
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Speaker 4: same clothes. Wore a pair of corduroy bell bottom jeans

341
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Speaker 4: and narrow at the top, and a light brown striped tea,

342
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: and his hair was down to his eyebrows. But the

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Speaker 4: detail that really sticks out was his shoes. There was

344
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Speaker 4: no one else from his village at the school, so

345
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 4: he walked, and most of the time his feet were

346
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Speaker 4: covered in mud. When it rained, he couldn't get the

347
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Speaker 4: moto off. Walked nearly four hours a day just so

348
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Speaker 4: he could attend school, and at a certain point it

349
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Speaker 4: just became too much. It's the circumstances, right, He probably thought,

350
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Speaker 4: going to school every day, what should I do?

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Speaker 2: How can I continue?

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Speaker 1: In other words, he was a poor rural kid without

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Speaker 1: many options.

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Speaker 3: Stelios puts it, these cads that grow up there. They

355
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Speaker 3: lived in the wilderness like animals, he said, when you

356
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 3: grow up on mountains like this, it makes you face inside.

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Speaker 3: The only time they got parented was at night. It'd

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Speaker 3: gather around with their parents around the fireplace, you know,

359
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: eat some bread, and then they'd hear these legends like

360
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Speaker 3: folk tales and songs.

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Speaker 1: Breathing in the nighttime air village children heard stories of

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Speaker 1: the Clefts, people who centuries ago had called these same

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Speaker 1: mountains home. The Clefts emerged in the sixteen hundreds after

364
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Speaker 1: the Turkish Ottoman Empire conquered mainland Greece. The Ottomans turned

365
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Speaker 1: Christian Greeks into second class citizens, so the Clefts fled

366
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Speaker 1: to the mountains, hoping isolation would provide them some independence

367
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Speaker 1: and safety. To preserve that independence, they had to protect it.

368
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Speaker 1: The Clefts were known to stock the surrounding highways and

369
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Speaker 1: rob unsuspecting travelers. They stole lambs and goats from herders

370
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Speaker 1: wandering their territory. Banditry became their calling card. You know

371
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Speaker 1: the word kleptomaniac, It comes from the Greek root cleft.

372
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Speaker 1: But they were more than just thieves. They were on

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Speaker 1: the front line of the fight for Greek independence. Today,

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Speaker 1: they are thought of as Greece's founding fathers, and their

375
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Speaker 1: stories are told to children with pride growing up. The

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Speaker 1: Paliocostas brothers heard these stories and romanticized them. The boys

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Speaker 1: were taken with the cleft way, this idea that banditry

378
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: could be used to help your people. There was one

379
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Speaker 1: story in particular that captured Vasilis Palocostas imagination. As a kid,

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Speaker 1: Vasilis attended a one room schoolhouse. When he was maybe

381
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: eight or nine, his teacher gave him a gift, a

382
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: leather bound book about Antonis Katzandonis, the story of one

383
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: of the most famous clefts dating back to the seventeen hundreds.

384
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Speaker 1: For Vasilis, there was a lot to like about Katzandonis.

385
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Speaker 1: They both grew up in the mountains, both were the

386
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: sons of shepherds, and they both had a strong sense

387
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: of fairness. But Katzandonis was falsely accused of stealing a

388
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: sheep and thrown in jail. When he got out, he

389
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: killed the man who had smeared his name, then joined

390
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: the clefts. Katzandonis embraced the life, robbing the Ottomans, rallying

391
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Speaker 1: clefts into an army, freeing Greek slaves along the way.

392
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Speaker 1: But one day Gotzandonis's luck ran dry because somebody snitched

393
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: under the shade of a plane tree. The Ottomans tied

394
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Speaker 1: his body to the ground, raised their sledgehammers and proceeded

395
00:25:50,040 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: to crush his bones. The story of Katsandonis left a

396
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: deep mark on young Vasilis. Years later, he'd reflect on

397
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: the teacher who gave him that book, as Vasilis once

398
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: wrote that teacher never had and never would again, give

399
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: a personal gift to one of his students. Was it

400
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 1: a random act? Insight who knows every story has a lesson,

401
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: And for Vasilis, the moral of Katsandonis's downfall was simple,

402
00:26:30,240 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: Never trust a rat Chapter five. Going pro. In the

403
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, the Palio Coosta's family moved out of the

404
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: mountains and closer to Tricola. They landed in a small

405
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: town on the run down edges of the city. Each day,

406
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: Nikos and Vasilis's dad would trek into the city for

407
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: his new job selling lottery tickets.

408
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 4: Dimitris Kutabasciakos is a film director who grew up in

409
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 4: the area, and during that time he started seeing the

410
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: brothers around town, hanging out with Costa Samaras and Dimitris

411
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 4: and his friends were in similar social circles. The Mitris

412
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 4: told us that there was a very famous pool hole

413
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 4: in trica La.

414
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: The Lion. At the time, Samaras was a well known

415
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: person in the neighborhood, and the Palio Costas brothers carried

416
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: a mystique of their own.

417
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 4: Samaras had opened the first live music bar in Trica La,

418
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 4: and it was for young people and it was really

419
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 4: something unprecedented. The brothers used to come in and play billiards,

420
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 4: and according to the Mitris, they played really well, and

421
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 4: their name was apparently on everyone's lips.

422
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: But your course, that's your course.

423
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 4: Everyone was talking about them, especially the older one, and

424
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 4: all the young kids were just very in all of them.

425
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: So when some of us spotted brother Nicos across the

426
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: bar and they hit it off, that reputation only grew

427
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: some of us in Nicos started as small. They were

428
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: stealing cars and broke into jewelry shops, and they developed

429
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: this moral code of crime pretty early. Like they didn't

430
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,719
Speaker 1: think of themselves as hard nosed crooks, more like gentlemen burglars.

431
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: Through the eighties, Nicos Paliocostis would commit at least twenty

432
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: seven burglaries in that time. He began to hone a

433
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: virtuosic ability for spotting and escaping the police. That's how

434
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: He earned the nickname.

435
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: The Ghost my Sugar Past after.

436
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,479
Speaker 7: One time we were notified that the car was speeding

437
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 7: down to Tricola.

438
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: You might remember Vasili's e Ftmu from last episode. He's

439
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: the police officer who spent two years chasing the Paliocostas brothers.

440
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 7: We were already driving up the mountain range, so we

441
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 7: picked a point to block it.

442
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: We got ready for a collision.

443
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 7: But twenty or thirty meters before the spot where we

444
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 7: planned to trap him, Nikos noticed us. He turned off

445
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 7: onto a dirt road and we lost him.

446
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: Ftmiu admits that Nikos was incredible behind the wheel. The

447
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 1: risks he took on the road just baffled the authorities.

448
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: His ability to escape was so legendary that years later

449
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: the police devised well more creative ways to try and

450
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: ambush him. To give you, his mother died.

451
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 7: We went to the funeral disguised as priests in case

452
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 7: Nicos came.

453
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: He went as priests.

454
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: Yes, we had people in the church. They said he

455
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: was going to say goodbye to his.

456
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: Mother, and it didn't end up coming.

457
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: He didn't show up, but persistence pays off. Around nineteen

458
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: eighty nine, Nicos caught a bad break and the police

459
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: arrested him. At the time, Vasilis was barely in his twenties.

460
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: Unlike Nicos, he wasn't living a life of crime yet,

461
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: as far as we know. He was busy drinking, hanging out,

462
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: playing pool. But when he visited his brother in prison,

463
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: he was immediately enlisted. The ghost had no intention of

464
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: staying behind bars, so he said to his brother, go

465
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: find Costas. Samaras.

466
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 6: We had made that appointment in Nathans to meet to

467
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 6: see what we can do for his brother who was

468
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 6: in safe We went somewhere for coffee. He said, how

469
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 6: nice you thieves are with your cars. That takes the money. Yes,

470
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 6: I said, but that's one side. On the other side

471
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 6: this prison, you need to wait them and choose. I mean,

472
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 6: he said, if you are in, I say, let's go

473
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 6: for taming.

474
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: Samaras claims that before this moment, Vasilis was a law

475
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: abiding citizen, and while it's hard the fact check that statement,

476
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: what is true is that this was a turning point.

477
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 6: Certainly, when Vasilis and I met, he had no particular

478
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 6: experience in these matters. He had heard some things from

479
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 6: his brother, She had learned a little from him, But

480
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 6: from then on she learned directly from me.

481
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: So the lessons began. Vasilis and some of us rented

482
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: an apartment in Larissa and started planning to break Nicos out.

483
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: And that's where Vasilis was first exposed to the rules

484
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: that would dictate the rest of his criminal life.

485
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 6: It is true that there was, let's say, a philosophy

486
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 6: in the first place, do not do more damage than necessary,

487
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 6: especially to human being.

488
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: You can be violent with.

489
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 6: Objects, that is, to break a door safe, but not

490
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 6: with people. With people, it's a game, like says she

491
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 6: kinds broke again.

492
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: It turned out the prison was a fortress. They'd need

493
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: an elaborate plan to break Nico south, so some of

494
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: us drew one up. First. He and Vasilis would case

495
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: the prison, recording every detail about the prison guard's movements.

496
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: Then they'd steal a dump truck that they could use

497
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: to break down the outer prison wall. They'd be prepared

498
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,239
Speaker 1: with plenty of firepower to scare off the guards when

499
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: they came running. Last, but not least, they'd need getaway cars,

500
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: multiple hideouts, change of clothes, the works.

501
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: She was a quick learner and trusted the process. She

502
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: had the quick mind.

503
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: But that escape it never materialized.

504
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: Something went drunk over there. It didn't work out.

505
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 8: For you.

506
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: To say something went wrong is an understatement. On the

507
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: day of the plan breakout, Vasilis was making his way

508
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: alone to a stolen getaway car that he'd packed with

509
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: guns and explosives and left in a village on the

510
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: outskirts of town. But he'd overlooked one crucial detail. A

511
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: Greek village is a tight knit place. People notice even

512
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: the smallest changes. So when locals spotted an unfamiliar car

513
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: parked on the side of the road, they got nosy,

514
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: and when they saw all the weapons stashed in the car,

515
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: the locals immediately took action. They deflated one of the

516
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: back tires, enlisted a couple cops, and laid a trap.

517
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: Sometime later, when Vasilis went to check the car, a

518
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: group of them were hiding in a dark cafe nearby

519
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: watching him. They clocked Vasilis as he approached the car,

520
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: and then watched as he detoured into the wood. Turned

521
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: out he had to peek, and that's when the villagers

522
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: ambushed him. They literally caught him with his pants down.

523
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: Later the police found it. All the cars, the guns,

524
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: and Ammo. It didn't take Sherlock Holmes to realize that

525
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: Vassilis had been planning a prison break. Suddenly Vasilis, a

526
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: twenty somethingter with a clean record, was sitting in the

527
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: back of a police cruiser, hands cuffed, and it was

528
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: about to get worse. At the booking station, police decided

529
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: to charge Vasilis for dozens of petty robberies, the robberies

530
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: that his brother in Samaras had committed over the past

531
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: few years.

532
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 6: Oh, Vasilis had no involvement, She hadn't been involved with

533
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 6: us yet, but they wanted to implicate him in all

534
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 6: of his crimes.

535
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: Vasilis was seeding the foiled prison escape, the stolen cars

536
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: and illegal weapons that he was happy to own, but

537
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: all these other crimes. This wasn't justice, of course. I

538
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: don't I know for sure what went through Vasilis's mind

539
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: back then, but I like to imagine he was thinking

540
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: about that leather bound book his teacher gave him about Katsandonis,

541
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: the man falsely accused of stealing sheep who joined the

542
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: Clefts after being wrongly imprisoned. Katsandonis would go on to

543
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: fight the Ottoman authorities and he's known for laying the

544
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: groundwork for Greek independence, a founding father who created the

545
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: vision of what the Greek nation could become. The stories

546
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: we tell ourselves about how our great societies came to be,

547
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: about the people who, against all odds, made it happen.

548
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: They're not unique to anyone culture. In the same way

549
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: we grip to our tales of founding fathers. These stories

550
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: hold together nations and they inspire individuals on their own paths,

551
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: like Vasilis Paliocostas, who, in this pivotal moment in his life,

552
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: sat in a police station as all the sins of

553
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: his brother became his to bear, and as he contemplated

554
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: how to fight back with this, gales of justice tilted

555
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: hard against him.

556
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 6: From that moment, John Vasili's was forced to turn to

557
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 6: a life.

558
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: Of crime.

559
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 8: That that carrier his famous by.

560
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: Next Time, I'm the good Thief.

561
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: This book is coming from a man who doesn't exist.

562
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 3: No one knows where he is.

563
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: Stand outside, I'm breaking out.

564
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 7: It's kind of a symbol of the perception of many

565
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 7: Greeks fighting against all odds, fighting against your pressure.

566
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 6: You believe that there were no casualties, The questions and

567
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 6: Who's crime is Greater?

568
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: The Good Thief is a Kaleidoscope production in partnership with

569
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts. I'm Miles Gray. Our executive producers are Mangesh Hettikadur, Costas,

570
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: Linos Oz Wallashan, and Kate Osborne. From iHeart, executive producers

571
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: are Katrina Norvel and Nicki Etor. Our partners at The

572
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: Greek Podcast Project are executive producer Daphne Carnesis, field producers

573
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: Christina Bilioni and George Miadis, and sound designer Nico Sklavenitis,

574
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: who's also the voice of Costa Samaras. Mary Phillips Sandy

575
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: is our supervising producer. Shane McKeon is our producer. The

576
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: show is written in research by Lucas Riley, fact checking

577
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: by Donia Suleman. Initial edit, mix and sound design for

578
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: this episode was by Kieran Matthew Banerji at Palm Tree Island.

579
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: Sound design and final mix by Soundboard. This episode featured

580
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: the voice of George I Valiotis. Our theme song is

581
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: by Imam Balden with additional music by Botany. Finally, thanks

582
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: to Will Pearson Connell Byrne, Bob Pittman and John marry Napolis,