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Speaker 1: Welcome back to a Numbers Game with Ryan Gradowski. This

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Speaker 1: is episode number eighteen. And if it's the first time

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Speaker 1: you're listening, welcome, And if you've been here every week,

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Speaker 1: thank you for listening again. If you haven't listened before,

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Speaker 1: you haven't done it. Please like and subscribe on wherever

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Speaker 1: you're listening Spotify, Apple Podcast, iHeartRadio app would really appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: And if you can give me a review on top

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Speaker 1: of it, that's just a cherry on the cake. So

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Speaker 1: for those who have been listening, I have worked in

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Speaker 1: politics my entire life. It's the only thing I've really

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Speaker 1: know how to do. I was a journalist and a

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Speaker 1: writer for a little bit of time, and then when

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Speaker 1: I was my teenager years, my first shot was working

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Speaker 1: at Victoria's secret selling bras. So if everything goes belly up,

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Speaker 1: that's all I have to fall back on. But I

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Speaker 1: am super excited about campaigns and elections. I follow them

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Speaker 1: across the entire world, and we actually have our first

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Speaker 1: major elections and starting this podcast. It's not in this country,

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Speaker 1: but it is in our neighbor to the north in Canada. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes I too forget that we have a neighbor to

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Speaker 1: the North, but we do. It's up there, and it's

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Speaker 1: their first election since twenty twenty one, and it's their

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Speaker 1: first election without Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on the ballot

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Speaker 1: leading the Liberal Party since twenty eleven. Now, I know

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of drama in American politics, especially since

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Speaker 1: the age of Trump. American elections have been very exciting

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Speaker 1: since twenty fifteen, but the Canadian election is full of drama.

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Speaker 1: I mean Canadian drama. It's not like the Sopranos are

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Speaker 1: breaking bad, but it's well, it's Canada, so it's like

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Speaker 1: a serious episode of Glee. But it's interesting. And here's

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Speaker 1: the backstory. Justin Trudeau has been the Prime Minister of

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Speaker 1: Canada for a decade, longer than any American president except

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Speaker 1: for Franklin Roosevelt, and under his tenure he's fundamentally altered

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Speaker 1: Canada on a permanent basis through mass immigration. When he

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Speaker 1: became Prime minister, Canada had a population of thirty five

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Speaker 1: point nine six million people close to thirty six million,

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Speaker 1: right say thirty six million, And by the time he left,

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Speaker 1: Canada's population increased to forty one point five million. In

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Speaker 1: proportion to America, it would be like US as adding

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Speaker 1: sixty million people during a decade when we added about

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Speaker 1: twenty five million, right, So it's substantially higher than immigration

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Speaker 1: rates in the United States, and we're talking about pedal

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Speaker 1: to the metal, full blown mass immigration. Remember, Canada has

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Speaker 1: a very low birth rate. Canada's official fertility rate when

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Speaker 1: Trudeau took over was one point six children per women.

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Speaker 1: It's now one point three children women. There's no natural

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Speaker 1: growth in Canada's population. Every generation of Canadians is smaller

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Speaker 1: than the one that came before it. The birth rate

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Speaker 1: is so low that by the end of this decade,

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Speaker 1: even with mass immigration and the alleged idea that immigrants

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Speaker 1: have so many kids, which they mostly don't anymore. That's

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Speaker 1: besides the point. But even with the immigration, the natural

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Speaker 1: growth that's birth minus deaths, will be negative numbers for Canada.

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Speaker 1: Immigration not only increased the overall population, but significantly changed

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Speaker 1: the racial makeup. Cana's white population is shrunk from seventy

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Speaker 1: three percent the year the Troupeau took office in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen to sixty eight point five percent in their last deck.

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Speaker 1: In their last census, which was twenty twenty one. It's

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Speaker 1: much lower than that now more than six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand Southeast Asians, one hundred and fifty thousand Chinese,

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Speaker 1: three hundred fifty thousand Blacks, one hundred and seventy thousand Filipinos,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy thousand Arabs, one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: thousand Latinos, and one hundred thousand West Asians have moved

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Speaker 1: to Canada and their overall quote unquote visible minority population,

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Speaker 1: that's what they call minorities who are non natives. But

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Speaker 1: visible minority population grew from nineteen percent in twenty eleven

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Speaker 1: to twenty six point five percent. Now, when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, it was well less than ten percent, So

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Speaker 1: in the lifetime of a millennial, Canada's population has changed

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Speaker 1: significantly in a very short period of time. This massive

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Speaker 1: population growth has put a strain on resources and housing

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Speaker 1: because remember, while Canada is a large country, one of

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Speaker 1: the largest physical geographic countries in the world, most people

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Speaker 1: live in a very very small area. The average home

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Speaker 1: price in Canada has increased by more than fifty percent

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Speaker 1: over the last ten years, and it's put a strain

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Speaker 1: on the nation's socialized healthcare. Over the last nine years,

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Speaker 1: when Canada increases population by more than five point five

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Speaker 1: million people, they only added thirty eight thousand more people

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Speaker 1: into the medical field. The medium waytime between referral by

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Speaker 1: a general practitioner and receiving treatment in twenty fifteen in

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Speaker 1: Canada was eighteen point three weeks, which is still in

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Speaker 1: American terms, it's a very long time. In twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: it's over thirty weeks, according to the Fraser Institute. Think

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Speaker 1: about what this means for someone in Canada needing to

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Speaker 1: see a specialist. It's quite literally life or death, which

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Speaker 1: may be part of the reason why they legalize assistant suicide.

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Speaker 1: All the effects of mass immigration at this scale had

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Speaker 1: a deteriorating effect on the life of the average Canadian,

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Speaker 1: and Trudeau's approval ratings plummeted. Trudeau's Liberal Party was losing

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Speaker 1: special election after special election, even in safe seats. Right

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Speaker 1: before he announced his resignation, Trudeau's Liberal Party was set

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Speaker 1: to lose the next election by more than twenty points

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Speaker 1: to the Conservatives. Twenty plus point loss would effectively have

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Speaker 1: ended the Liberal Party. They would have held onto less

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Speaker 1: than twenty seats. It'd be like the Republicans winning parts

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Speaker 1: of Chicago, Maryland, New York City, Los Angeles, or like

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Speaker 1: the Democrats winning the Dakotas and Louisiana and West Texas.

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Speaker 1: And then two things happened that fundamentally altered this entire election. First,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned, Trudeau resigned and was replaced by a

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Speaker 1: new leader of the Liberal Party and current Prime Minister,

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Speaker 1: Mark Karney, who is far less problematic for a lot

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Speaker 1: of Canadians and a lot of people have fewer issues

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Speaker 1: with him. So it took the pressure off the party

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Speaker 1: when an unpopular prime minister resigned, kind of like how

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Speaker 1: the Democrats would have lost places like New Jersey and

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Speaker 1: Virginia had Joe Biden said on the ballot. But he

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Speaker 1: was replaced by Kamala Harris, who was still in the loser,

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Speaker 1: but by a lot less than what Joe Biden would

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Speaker 1: have lost. Side, another thing happened. President Donald Trump started

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Speaker 1: talking about annexing the country, referring to Trudeau as the

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Speaker 1: governor instead of the prime minister, and openly speaking about

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Speaker 1: turning to our fifty first state. Then come the trade

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Speaker 1: wars and all the other rhetorics. This sent shock waves

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Speaker 1: throughout Canada, and the population rallied behind Prime Minister Carney

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Speaker 1: almost as a middle finger to Trump and the broader

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Speaker 1: Conservative movement. Air Polaverre, the head of the Conservative Party

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Speaker 1: of Canada. I'm sorry if I pushed his name, by

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Speaker 1: the way, Calm Pierre. Pierre's lead fell from twenty five

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Speaker 1: points in December twenty twenty five to a deficit of

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Speaker 1: losing by two to six points in most polls. It's

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Speaker 1: a thirty point turnaround in four months. It is shocking.

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Speaker 1: It's jaw dropping. This stuff doesn't happen. The Conservatives have

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Speaker 1: only led in two poles since Karney took over as

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister on March fourteen, and the Liberal Party that

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Speaker 1: was destined to basically end as a functional party, could

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Speaker 1: win a larger majority than it had under Trudeau in

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Speaker 1: a mere four and a half months. The electionist eft

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Speaker 1: for Monday, April twenty eighth, the day before one of

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Speaker 1: the most important days in American history, my birthday, and the

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Speaker 1: Conservative Party could make it or break it. It could

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Speaker 1: come back if the polls are wrong, especially which sometimes

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Speaker 1: they are. A lot of times they are, but we

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Speaker 1: don't know. Stay tuned for my next guest to discuss

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Speaker 1: whether or not the Conservative Party of Canada has the

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Speaker 1: momentum to do it.

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Speaker 2: Be right back.

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Speaker 1: With me this week is Jonathan Kay. He is an

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Speaker 1: editor at Couilette and a Canadian, so it's great to

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Speaker 1: have someone in the program to discuss the election. Who's

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Speaker 1: up there, Jonathan, Thanks for being.

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Speaker 2: Here, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned before in the show, going into

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Speaker 1: this election, the Liberal Party came back from the dead.

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Speaker 1: They went from a twenty five point deficit to to

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Speaker 1: two to six point lead depending upon what poll you believe.

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Speaker 1: Part of that is Trudeau resigning. Part of that is

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's rhetoric. Is there something else that Americans don't

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Speaker 1: know about that has really shifted this election in such

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Speaker 1: a short period of time.

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Speaker 2: No, that's pretty much it. This is going to be

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Speaker 2: a really short podcast. So look, yeah, Canada's system of government,

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Speaker 2: there's not the same level of checks and balances and

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Speaker 2: separation of powers you have in the United States. So

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Speaker 2: as a result, if you have a majority government, as

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Speaker 2: Trudeau effectively did, it technically had a minority, but the

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Speaker 2: party propping him up was this this left wing entity

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Speaker 2: called the NDP, and it was essentially acting as a

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Speaker 2: rubber stamp. So you have an enormous concentration of power

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Speaker 2: in the prime minister, and if the prime minister is popular,

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Speaker 2: the government's popular. And if the prime minister is unpopular,

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Speaker 2: the government is unpopular. And Canada has no term limits,

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Speaker 2: so the same prime minister can serve three, four, five

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Speaker 2: terms in a row. The only limit is getting elected

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Speaker 2: and moretality, you know, like I mean, you literally, I mean,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes you do. You have premiers and prime ministers

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Speaker 2: who really do serve beyond their ability to Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: the way things work is, I mean, sometimes you get

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Speaker 2: they lose the popular vote, but they still end up

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Speaker 2: in power because we have maybe depending on how you

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Speaker 2: count them, five parties in most writings buying for votes,

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Speaker 2: so you get vote splitting, and sometimes the incumbent will

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Speaker 2: get in with like thirty percent of the vote. So

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Speaker 2: as a result, you get premiers in the provinces and

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Speaker 2: prime ministers who hang on like they wait too long

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Speaker 2: to quit and.

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Speaker 1: Didn't get a majority of the vote. I think in

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Speaker 1: the last election of the one before.

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Speaker 2: That, his first term, his first term, he did get

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Speaker 2: a majority. And interestingly that was kind of the same phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: You had Stephen Harper, who at the time was the

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Speaker 2: conservative incumbent and had won some majority, but he by

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Speaker 2: this time. I mean it happens to every politician. Uh,

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Speaker 2: they become unpopular, People blame them for all sorts of things,

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Speaker 2: sometimes with good reason. Scandals pile up. They developed like

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Speaker 2: just kind of a closet full of cronies that like

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Speaker 2: they can't seem to get rid of it. It just

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Speaker 2: it happens with with politicians.

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Speaker 1: And America I can't possibly understand.

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Speaker 2: Except America, and it never happens in they.

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Speaker 1: In America, we never have a politician who's too old

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Speaker 1: and it clings the power for too long. It just continues.

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Speaker 2: Although that that that joke swings both ways, depending upon

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Speaker 2: if you're red and blue. But sure, yeah, sure, Uh.

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Speaker 1: Chris McConnell is literally like quote unquote stroking out in

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Speaker 1: the middle of Preston.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's the thing you have, Like the

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Speaker 2: the incumbency reelection rate in the United States is so high,

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Speaker 2: and especially I think in the House of Representatives that

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Speaker 2: like I think you've got like what twenty term guys

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Speaker 2: who just kind of phone it in every two years.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and by the way, we have kind of

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Speaker 2: a little bit equivalent of that in the writings. That's

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Speaker 2: kind of the equivalent of our districts. And anyway, all

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Speaker 2: of this to say, politics in Canada is often very personal.

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Speaker 2: It's it's attached to the leader, and if the leader

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Speaker 2: is popular, you know, the fortunes of the party go

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Speaker 2: with the fortunes of the leader for the most part.

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Speaker 1: And it's a lot like the UK. It's more like

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Speaker 1: the UK than the United States.

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Speaker 2: Not sure, it's you know, it's it's a parliamentary system,

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Speaker 2: right right, And it's not only as a parliamentary system.

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Speaker 2: It's a parliamentary system in the media age and in

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Speaker 2: the social media age.

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Speaker 1: So now I want to just prep something for the

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Speaker 1: for the audience. Canada has a first past the post

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Speaker 1: election system, which means is that correct? Am I wrong?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So the way I think we're we don't have

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Speaker 2: like transferable votes or like sometimes parliamentary systems they've experimented with.

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Speaker 1: It's not like representational like it is in like Germany.

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Speaker 1: Let's say you have you have to win your respected district.

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Speaker 1: As a Canada as well, so.

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Speaker 2: There aren't party lists sometimes. Again, every system is different,

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Speaker 2: where like you know, you might have some candidates elected

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Speaker 2: on the basis of a party list and others represent

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Speaker 2: geographical runs. Candidate is very simple. It's in your riding.

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Speaker 2: There are more than three hundred, three hundred and eighteen

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Speaker 2: at one point, I think they added a few more.

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Speaker 2: But the idea is that in your riding, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's ten parties, and you know, everyone else wins eight

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Speaker 2: or nine percent of the vote, and you win like

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Speaker 2: eleven percent of the vote. That's it. You win. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's yeah. So it's and and again another subplot. You

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Speaker 2: have a lot of especially younger political activists, who want

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Speaker 2: proportional representation, which actually Trudeau promised last time around, and

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Speaker 2: then I forgot about anyway, I keep I keep tripping

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Speaker 2: over myself on tangents. But the long and short of it,

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Speaker 2: the Liberals were very much identified with Trudeau, who's extremely

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Speaker 2: unpopular for a variety of reasons. And so if you

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Speaker 2: looked at the polls a couple of months ago, when

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Speaker 2: Trudeau was still the leader of the Liberal Party and

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Speaker 2: the Prime minister, it looked like the Liberals were going

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Speaker 2: to go down to a historic defeat in the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five elections. He quit, and actually, you know, all

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Speaker 2: the evidence is he didn't quit out of his own volition.

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Speaker 2: He really thought he was going to lead the Liberals

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Speaker 2: into yet another election. But there was what was effective,

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Speaker 2: effectively a revolt in his own caucus. It was a

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Speaker 2: very genteel Canadian revolt where you know, people would say

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Speaker 2: to reporters, oge, I'm worried about the party under its

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Speaker 2: current leadership, and I mean, I love Trudeau to death.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's those voters.

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Speaker 1: As an American, I can't imagine your own party forcing

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Speaker 1: a sitting president or prime minister out of afice.

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Speaker 2: So it's I mean, it's a little different the United States.

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Speaker 2: In the United States, he really do get say, you know,

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Speaker 2: congressman and senators from Party X voting down legislation that's

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Speaker 2: supported by the president, who's also from Party X. Like

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Speaker 2: there is a little bit more independent minded. It's different,

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Speaker 2: at least in Canada's current iteration of the parliamentary system,

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Speaker 2: where most members of Parliament are expected to be you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it was Pierre Trudeau's memorable phrase trained seals.

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Speaker 2: You know, they sort of clap at the appointed time,

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Speaker 2: and they blew at the appointed time, and they support

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Speaker 2: the leader and they support the legislation and to the.

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Speaker 1: Extent they have a quiet revolt against Trudeau was pretty

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Speaker 1: a big deal.

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Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't quiet. I would say it was

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Speaker 2: genteel in the sense that, yes, media leaks were weaponized,

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Speaker 2: but weaponized like they gave him kind of due warning.

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Speaker 2: Like at first it was the Quebec For complicated cultural reasons,

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Speaker 2: the Quebec caucus of all parties tends to be a

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Speaker 2: little bit more independent minded because they exist during their

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Speaker 2: own French media and cultural sphere. And at least the

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Speaker 2: revolt against Trudeau to some extent, started in Quebec. But

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Speaker 2: like people, it's like everywhere else. They they live and

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Speaker 2: die by the polls, and the polls suggested that a

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Speaker 2: Trudeau led the Liberals into the next election, the Liberals

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Speaker 2: would get trounced. And as soon as Trudeau quit, it

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Speaker 2: didn't take more than a week or two you saw

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Speaker 2: Liberal fortunes start to rebound, at least if the polls

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Speaker 2: are any guide. And you and the guy who was

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Speaker 2: you know, party establishment, and I think Trudeau himself favored

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Speaker 2: this guy. His name is Mark Carney. This isn't my line,

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Speaker 2: but it's accurate. He looks kind of the way a

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Speaker 2: Canadian prime minister would be depicted in a nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: five movie about some kind of like fight between Canada

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Speaker 2: and the United States. He looks like you would kind

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Speaker 2: of expect, you know, a Canadian prime minister to look

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Speaker 2: very you know, he's very cuts, a dashing figure, but

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Speaker 2: also eminently forgettable. His his campaign has been somewhat vapid,

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Speaker 2: but his campaign has more less consisted of I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's a very accomplished guy. He used to be Governor

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Speaker 2: of the Bank of Canada. He went to the UK

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Speaker 2: and had the same job. His name's Mark Karney. By

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Speaker 2: all counts a nice guy. I actually know a guy

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Speaker 2: who who went to UH studied economics with him and

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Speaker 2: said he was perfectly, perfectly decent guy. But he you know,

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Speaker 2: his campaign has to some extent. I mean, there's three

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Speaker 2: prongs to his campaign. I hate Trump and I'll fight

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Speaker 2: against Trump, which everyone is in Canada is saying. He's

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Speaker 2: he's saying, Soto Voce, I'm not just In Trudeau. So

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Speaker 2: if you hate Justin Trudeau, don't worry, I'm not him.

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Speaker 2: And then he's also just kind of borrowed the political

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Speaker 2: demands of the of the Conservatives, who are the main opposition.

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Speaker 2: Well capital c Conservatives, No one, None of your American

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Speaker 2: listeners should mistake them for like actual conservatives by American standards.

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Speaker 2: You know, everybody in Canada supports universal healthcare, we all

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Speaker 2: support rights to abortion, we all hate but a punishment.

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Speaker 2: So like there's there's no one, there's no mainstream party

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Speaker 2: in Canada that has a platform that a red state American.

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Speaker 1: There's a populist party in Canada doesn't ever win anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's this guy Maxime Bernier, who formerly was

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Speaker 2: a Conservative. But even him, like he's he's sort of

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Speaker 2: a non entity in politics. You know. I think I

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Speaker 2: think he gets like two or three percent of the

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Speaker 2: protest but which actually hurts the Conservatives. But he's more,

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Speaker 2: i would say, like kind of wind bag populist than

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Speaker 2: than like, you know, he doesn't have like a to

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Speaker 2: my knowledge, a well developed policy on you know a

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Speaker 2: lot of the issues that that traditionally conservatives would.

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Speaker 1: So I want to talk about Trump in a second,

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Speaker 1: but I want to stick to Canada and Trudeau, especially

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Speaker 1: for an American audience who sometimes even for guess we

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Speaker 1: have a neighbor to the north, how much immigration under

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Speaker 1: Trudeau fundamentally altered Canada in a very real way, and

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Speaker 1: it was the number one issue for quite a long time.

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Speaker 1: Healthcare to see a doctor is significantly longer. Home prices

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Speaker 1: have increased substantially as you've increased the population by I

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Speaker 1: think five million over the course of nine years. How

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Speaker 1: much is immigration still play in this election? Is it

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Speaker 1: still because Pierre I'm going to pronounce his name, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his his, he's not a he's not a Trump person

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Speaker 1: on immigration though he said we need to reduce immigration,

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Speaker 1: for sure. But how much is immigration still part of

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Speaker 1: the conversation as it was, let's say a year or

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Speaker 1: two ago, and it was seemed to be in all

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Speaker 1: the like Canadian press.

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Speaker 2: One thing that's happened. I'm going to address the substance

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Speaker 2: of your question shortly, but I'll just say right off

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Speaker 2: the bat, this is one instance, as with the carbon

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Speaker 2: tax a few other things, where one of the things

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Speaker 2: that liberals have done which have made themselves more electable

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Speaker 2: is they just kind of like thrown in the towel

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Speaker 2: in this issue. Even before he resigned. Trudeau, so there's

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Speaker 2: a couple of I guess mid to late twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four he recorded this this kind of odd home video

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Speaker 2: where he said, Hey, I get it, immigration levels are

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Speaker 2: too high. I'm like slashing immigration levels. There's all sorts

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Speaker 2: of sub programs, temporary worker programs and stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: and like across the board, the Liberals kind of stole

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Speaker 2: the plank for any opposition party that was opposed to

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Speaker 2: enormous immigration levels. They kind of just renounced their own

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Speaker 2: policy on immigration.

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Speaker 1: And the Conservatives didn't then move further to the right.

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Speaker 1: They just stay where they were. Right.

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Speaker 2: Look, so immigration is a funny issue in Canada because interestingly,

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Speaker 2: Trudeau massively expanded the number of immigrants who come to Canada.

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Speaker 2: Even before he took power. I think Canada was immigrating

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Speaker 2: something like one percent of its population every year. So

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Speaker 2: I think something you know, even in the late Harper years,

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Speaker 2: something like three hundred thousand that went up under Trudeau.

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Speaker 2: I think four hundred thousand. It's tricky because there's also

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Speaker 2: temporary foreign workers and refugees in their own class. But

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Speaker 2: you had a country that was immigrating about one percent

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Speaker 2: of its population every year, and you know, in American terms,

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Speaker 2: this would be the equivalent of like four million new

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Speaker 2: immigrants to the United States every year. On top of

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Speaker 2: like refugees and people coming on pieces, and you know,

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Speaker 2: in American terms, it would there's just there'd be no comparison.

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Speaker 2: It would be politically untenable. And what I think it

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Speaker 2: should be should be said is when this was happening

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Speaker 2: the Harper Harper years and even the first couple of

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Speaker 2: Trudeau terms, there wasn't a huge amount of published public pushback.

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Speaker 2: To some extent was artificial because it was seen as

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Speaker 2: you know, it stigmatized as racists, or at least it

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Speaker 2: once was. Before the liberals renounced their own immigration policies,

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Speaker 2: the liberal friendly media accused anyone who wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: about issues being a big racist. Now suddenly it's okay.

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Speaker 2: But even among conservatives, there is not the instinctive pushback,

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Speaker 2: the reflexive pushback against immigration in the East in the

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Speaker 2: United States, in part because there's all sorts of industries

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Speaker 2: here that have come to depend on temporary foreign workers.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was just out in British Columbia, you know,

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Speaker 2: small city called Colonna, which you know, it's the equivalent

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Speaker 2: of I don't like ask in Colorado or something like that.

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Speaker 2: And just like every retail establishment you go into is

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Speaker 2: staff by temporary foreign workers. And if businesses had to

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Speaker 2: depend like you know, your average McDonald's or Burger King

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Speaker 2: or Tim Horton's or anything like that, Like if they

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Speaker 2: had to depend on just native foreign workers who are

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Speaker 2: citizens and such, that they wouldn't be able to at

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Speaker 2: least for now, they wouldn't be able to keep their

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Speaker 2: shifts staffed. However, things, as with a lot of things

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Speaker 2: Trudeau did, he just never knew when to say quit.

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Speaker 2: And the arithmetic just got insane. And here in Toronto

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Speaker 2: where I live, which I think the four million people

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Speaker 2: here and I think something like one hundred thousand or

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Speaker 2: more of those immigrants end up in Toronto every year.

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Speaker 2: I mean, home prices have just gone through the roof

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Speaker 2: because there's only so much land, and you just got

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Speaker 2: tons of people coming in, a lot of them who

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Speaker 2: have a ton of cash. Because for all it's touchy

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Speaker 2: feely reputation, Candidis, immigration laws are actually very hard headed

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Speaker 2: from an economic perspective. You know, they emphasize English and

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Speaker 2: French fluency, job skills. You get a lot of doctors

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Speaker 2: and engineers who come here. It's a points based system.

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Speaker 2: It's not you know, some people may.

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Speaker 1: Explain it points based system to American Hounians who doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to you know.

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Speaker 2: Like you're you're you're an investor and you have a

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Speaker 2: lot of cash to invest or. You have job skills,

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Speaker 2: the language fluency, your your secondary schooling. It's a sense

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Speaker 2: the test, not a specialist necessarrea. But it's more or

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Speaker 2: less trying trying to bring in immigrants who will assimilately

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Speaker 2: quickly be economically productive and hit the ground running in

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Speaker 2: terms of either starting a business or being employed or

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Speaker 2: buying real estate. There was an investor class. Actually lost

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Speaker 2: track of what they've done with the investor class status,

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Speaker 2: but you could just come in and say, hey, I've

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Speaker 2: got ten million dollars to invest in a new business,

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Speaker 2: and it was kind of your fast track. So it

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Speaker 2: was you know, Canada's reputation on the world stage is

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Speaker 2: like sort of very touchy feeling, and people sometimes assume

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Speaker 2: that everything about Canada's immigration is based on like, you know,

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Speaker 2: the tired poor, the hungary family reunification, like kind of

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Speaker 2: almost quasi refugee type criteria. But that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: Right and over that time period I experienced earlier because

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Speaker 1: even though Canada is a gigantic country physically, most will

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Speaker 1: live in a very condensed area, so that much population

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Speaker 1: and wages have stagnated. In Canada, the average GDP per

432
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: capita I think was fifty three thousand dollars in two

433
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen, right Portraito took over, and it's still

434
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: about fifty four to fifty five thousand.

435
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, the economic performance. Now, I'm not an economist, I

436
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: don't know how much of this is due to immigration,

437
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 2: but I I mean, economists themselves will debate the impacts

438
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: of immigration on macro economies. But I will say that

439
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 2: a lot of politicians, including politicians on the right, were

440
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: kind of conflicted about immigration because there's a lot of

441
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: like a lot of my hearings around a lot of

442
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: my friends. If you already have a job and you're

443
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: already in your house, people actually kind of like immigration

444
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: in many ways. You know, when I go to the

445
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: medical clinic, sometimes the nurses they all happen to be

446
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 2: from Philippines. If you're if you're you're looking for like

447
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: a medical specialist, many of them are from India. As

448
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: I said entrepreneurs, I was talking to a manager this

449
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: place called Kelowna. Had a long conversation with a manager

450
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: at a Denny's and he and one of the things

451
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: he said is he said, look, because everybody in his restaurant,

452
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: it was clear, was from somewhere else. And I said,

453
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: you know, tell me about the labor situation here, and

454
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: he said, the thing is it's cheaper to bring in

455
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: temporary foreign workers, not just in terms of wages that

456
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: he said, in terms of I think the depression he

457
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: used was employment availability. So you know, they will take

458
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 2: any shift they've come to work, Whereas you know, someone

459
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 2: who's a native born Canadian, it might be like, well,

460
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: you know, I'm doing childcare that day, and I have

461
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: the side hustle on Uber and you know, I'm also

462
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: I'm studying, I'm doing this, and you know I'm doing

463
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: elder care and weekends don't work for me. And so

464
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: he just like, for a variety of reasons, entrepreneurs and

465
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: employers often have just found it easier to hire immigrants

466
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: and temporary for foreign workers. So you know, this happens

467
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: in the United States to a certain extent too, where

468
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: you have the business class, if you want to call

469
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: the you know, maybe it's part of a conservative constituency

470
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: that likes immigration and finds it does for them lower,

471
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,239
Speaker 2: you know, make payroll management easier, which often does mean

472
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: paying lower wages. And if you're more working class and

473
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: you don't have a home, and you're competing with all

474
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: these new families for homes and home prices are going up,

475
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: you're competing for jobs maybe at the lower end of

476
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: the wage spectrum. You know, this dynamic will be familiar

477
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: to any American. So there's been a huge pushback, and

478
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: that pushback has gradually climbed into the middle socioeconomic rung.

479
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: So it was time for medical care.

480
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: Has increased the medical care so that that's its own issue.

481
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: Since I have been in journalism, you know, since the nineties,

482
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: there's never been a time where people weren't concerned about

483
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: wait times in medical facilities. I should also say that

484
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: healthcare generally speaking, is a provincial responsibility. So now it's

485
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 2: muddled because there's you know, Canada Health Act. And as

486
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: with the United States, the federal government is plowing cash

487
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 2: into everything, even things that aren't federal responsibilities. So and

488
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: also just in general, the fed government government often just

489
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 2: gets blamed for everything. You know, you talk to people

490
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: like they want the federal government to like put a stop.

491
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 1: In their trees.

492
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

493
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: I've done so many campaigns and they'll sit there and say,

494
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: you know, I don't like my neighbor's overgrown bush, and like, well,

495
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: this is a congressman, So.

496
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 2: I I think I can talk that. You know, there's

497
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: this's I think my barber who I talk politics with,

498
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: because it's hilarious. He wants the next prime minister to

499
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: get rid of bike lanes in his neighborhood and blame

500
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: it for them. Yeah.

501
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: So I want to get to Trump because Trump, really,

502
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: despite him being a foreign leader, has had an immense

503
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: effect on this election. Trumps sitting there and talking about

504
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: annexing Canada and calling Trudeau governor. How has this affected

505
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: the Canadian voter?

506
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 2: So external threats always help incumbents because you know, we're humans,

507
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: which means we're we're mammals, which means you know, we

508
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: we have kin based you know, often tribal instincts, and

509
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: when there's an external threat, we it often provides like

510
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 2: a bonding moment within our our groups and it enhances

511
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 2: the status of our leader. I think this is part

512
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: of our evolutionary psychology. And you saw this on the

513
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: provincial level. So I happened to live on Ontario. We

514
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: have a again nominally conservative premier and he did gangbusters

515
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,479
Speaker 2: in the most recent election, which was conducted amidst the

516
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: most unhinged protectionist bluster being admitted by Trump, and he

517
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: did great. He happened to be a conservative. But there

518
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: was this press conference where he put on like a

519
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: baseball cap that I forget what it said. It was like,

520
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: you know, screw you Trump or whatever, and it people

521
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: are like, yeah, protect us from Trump. And again he

522
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: was a conservative. He got a nice majority, and the

523
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: rule's got to boost because again it's an external threat.

524
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: People rally around the flag and the liberal and by

525
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: the way, my suspicion is no way to prove it.

526
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: The reason Trudeau hung around despite his horrible poll numbers

527
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: is his political instincts were correct that if Trump won

528
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: the election, that at whatever carbon blob was sitting in

529
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister's chair at the time that happened, would

530
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: get a huge bump in the.

531
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: Polls for carbon blob.

532
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: No, because that carbon blob would be painted red and

533
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: white and would be would protect everyone from the evil Trump.

534
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: And honestly, like, maybe this isn't something conservatives want to hear,

535
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: but you know, Trump's election has been like absolute rocket

536
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: fuel for progressive politicians who are otherwise fighting a headwind.

537
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: Everyone was sick of so many of the progressive causes,

538
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, finally their day is done.

539
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: And then Trump gets elected and it's like, oh great,

540
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: now you've got these progressives, you know, dawning the mantle

541
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: of patriotism, not just in Canada but Europe, saying like,

542
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: oh this is you know, where the where the thin

543
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: progressive line protecting you from trump Ism.

544
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: Well it didn't really work for the For the German

545
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: uh Liberal Party, they lost a landslide and that was

546
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: toast Trump.

547
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: I don't followed German politics because it's so boring, okay,

548
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: And whenever I think I understand German politics, I talked

549
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: to someone that's from Germany and says, oh, but that

550
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: only works at the provincial level. That's I don't. I

551
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 2: don't know what accent that was.

552
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: Germany and Austria. They had elections post Trump, and the

553
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: populist did very, very well. In the center right either

554
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: came in first or second. The popular section human first

555
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: in Austria.

556
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: I'm not going to pretend I understand central European politics.

557
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: Okay, or any European An election in Western Europe. I

558
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: think Portugal is coming up. Portugal is in a few weeks,

559
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: and I'll cover that. Yeah, I love, I love, I

560
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: love politics in a way that is probably unhealthy. So

561
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: I do follow all these countries and what else, not

562
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: minor countries, but other countries that I know no American

563
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: otherwise would know.

564
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 2: Possibly the capital of Portugal is Lisbon.

565
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: True. The one thing I love about Canadian politics, if

566
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: I could just wax Poever.

567
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: No one has ever started a sentence that way.

568
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: I know. But the one that I find, okay, the

569
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: one I find immensely amusing that I love is Quebec

570
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: politics because Quebec, being a former French colony and then

571
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: becoming a province of had a lot of its own

572
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: independence and almost breaking away from Canada twice. They they

573
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: have their own French only politicians that really only campaign

574
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: in French speak French. Sometimes when I watch French, oh sorry,

575
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: when I watch Canadian debates, the French politicians will be

576
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: talking about completely and utterly different things than anybody. And

577
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: there was this comedian, and I don't know what she

578
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: was Canadian community. She was yeah, the Liberal party will

579
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: talk about increasing government, the Conserative party will about crediting government,

580
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: and the French politician will talk about producing the price

581
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: of cigarettes for children.

582
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: So and by the way, it goes beyond that. In

583
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: terms of media culture, there's TV shows obviously Canadians have

584
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: never heard of that are like in Quebec. Everyone stops

585
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: what they're doing to watch. It's like they have their

586
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: own celebrity star systems. So they're like Quebec celebrities that

587
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: I mean, some of the Quebec celebrities escape containment, like Celenion.

588
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: But you know, I mean there are a few commonalities,

589
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: like hockey and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean,

590
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: so it used to be the case. I think it

591
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: was Dick Morris. I think Dick Morris gave a speech

592
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: in Toronto a couple of decades ago and said, from

593
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: his knowledge of Canadian politics, regionalism is our race where

594
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: But that's dated so that doesn't really exist anymore except

595
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: in Quebec. But it used to be that Alberta had

596
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: its own super distinct identity. Newfoundlands certainly absolutely had its

597
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: own distinctive identity the Atlantic provinces. Now that's been diluted

598
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: a lot because of globalization, immigration, as you know, labor mobility.

599
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: People moved to the oil fields. You know, a lot

600
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: of white collar workers moving around the country during COVID

601
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: just wherever they can get a home and working remote. So,

602
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: but Quebec is different because it has its own language

603
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: and culture, and you know, the equivalent would be like

604
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: if there's no real equivalent in the United States because

605
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: even your you know, your former French speaking areas like Louisiana,

606
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: at least since you know the early.

607
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: It's almost in the same as Texans being Texas. Being

608
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: Texan is a personality trade within that.

609
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: So but but you know, but that's not even that.

610
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: Like I've been you know, if you go to Austin,

611
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: I mean Austin. When you're in Austin, you might as

612
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: well be in Massachusetts.

613
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: Like I mean, they to be from Austin, they're not

614
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: from Texas. Yes, but that's the closest I have because

615
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: we don't actually.

616
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: But there's the language thing. It's like, yeah, you don't

617
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: have to be Like imagine if everybody in Florida spoke

618
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 2: alligator language and they had their own alligator celebrity truth.

619
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: I mean, that would be different and like when election

620
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: time came, all they would care about is like, you know,

621
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 2: what are you going to do about like the shorter

622
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: devaligator food, Like it's just having your own langue, language

623
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: and culture go together. Quebec is Canada is a bilingual country.

624
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: It's that's one little quirk we have, although weirdly there's

625
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: no you know, people in English Canada we try and

626
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: predict this stuff. But Mark Kearney, who's French is weak

627
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: and who like didn't want to take part in the

628
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: French language debate. At first, people say, oh, this guy's

629
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 2: gonna at clauborated because it's French, is terrible. But people

630
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: I don't know in Quebec they kind of like the guy.

631
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: So I like in English Canada, there's this whole cottage

632
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: industry of trying to predict how things will play in Quebec,

633
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: and we always get it wrong.

634
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: My last question is if you could you know, I

635
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: know what Poles say in your gut as a Canadian citizen.

636
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: Do the Conservatives have a chance to pull it out?

637
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: Or really is it liberals to lose?

638
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: I had no idea, so I so every political prediction

639
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: I've ever made in public, since I like my ber

640
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: mitzvah has been completely wrong, and so I wrote a

641
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: you're talking to somebody who once wrote a column. Stephen

642
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: Harper came to visit This is way back before he

643
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: was Prime minister, like in the in the primordial days

644
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 2: of my early employment at the National Post. It was like,

645
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: what was it, nineteen nineties and he came to visit

646
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 2: the National Post at a tour board and I found

647
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: him like very cranky and condescending, and I wrote this

648
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: eight hundred word column. I was like, oh man, this

649
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 2: this guy thinks he's going to become prime minister with

650
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: a joke. And I started like ticking off sort of

651
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 2: people who I thought would make a great replacement for

652
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: Harper after his predictable flame out in the election. And

653
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: then he got a majority government. And this is before Twitter, thankfully,

654
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: so no one could like rub my column in my

655
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 2: face and say, yeah. I think people were a lot

656
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: more casual about their predictions before social media, because like

657
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: half of your brain is saying, how will this look

658
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: when it's rubbed in my face when I'm wrong? But

659
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: I remember at that moment I said, I'm never making

660
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 2: a prediction of political prediction, because literally, if I told

661
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: you that A is going to win, it means B's

662
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 2: going to win.

663
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: By Alge is doing a good campaign at least.

664
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: The problem the problem with me. I feel feel for

665
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: the guy because his main campaign plank was vote for

666
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 2: me or you're going to get four more years of Trudeau.

667
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: And then Trudeau says, Okay, I'm leaving, and this this

668
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: hole in the air, and Mark Karney becomes the liberal

669
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: carbon blob and it's a lot easier to campaign against this,

670
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: this guy who everyone hates. I mean even a lot

671
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: of liberals hated Trudeau. He was just kind of it's

672
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: something about truth. He was very dated, like this is

673
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: this social justice guy and like, you know, going on

674
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 2: these like drag shows and like and I'm like fairly

675
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 2: socially progressive, but even my gay friends were like, you know,

676
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: he'd go to Pride and act like he'd never been

677
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: in a Pride parade and just start acting out let's

678
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 2: speak like an idiot, and everyone was just sick of

679
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 2: the guy. The performance performed of social justice crap and

680
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: like sort of his Maudelin displays of contrition about Canada's

681
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 2: allegedly genocidal history. The whole act graded on everyone. And

682
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: when the day he announced that he wouldn't be running

683
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: in the next election was the day that life became

684
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 2: difficult for Polyev because that was his big A lot

685
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: of Canadian politics is like it's just you're sick of

686
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: one guy and so you vote for the other guy.

687
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: It even happens in our mayoral elections, like we had

688
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: this this uh blow dried Harvard grad named David Miller

689
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 2: as our mayor in Toronto, and when people were sick

690
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: of him, they voted for this, Like alcoholic Rube named

691
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: Rob Ford my.

692
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: Favorite Canadian Polisian of all time.

693
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he was just like this sort of

694
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 2: like YouTube celebrity for all the wrong reasons. And that's

695
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: kind of what happens, is like they were sick of

696
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 2: one extreme, so they go for the other. And Pouliev

697
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 2: was hoping to benefit from that, and he had every

698
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 2: reason to benefit from that, and he was saved by

699
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 2: the Liberal rank and file who, in their very genteel

700
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 2: Canadian throat, clear and way, told Trudeau to take a hike,

701
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: which he did. And if Trudeau had hung on because

702
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 2: there's no real mechanism that the Liberals had available to

703
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: them to get rid of Trudeau, to force the issue realistically, like,

704
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: if Trudeau had wanted to run in the next election,

705
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 2: he probably could have. And that's what Pouliever I think expected,

706
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: and unfortunately he didn't get that. He got someone who

707
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: had kind of a neutral reputation who then got the

708
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: benefit of Trump coming in and essentially threatening to destroy

709
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,959
Speaker 2: the North American economy of spite and giving a huge

710
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: shot in the arm to Canadian the Canadian left. And

711
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: I don't want to predict that the Canadian well, I

712
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: guess I do want to predict that the Liberals are

713
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 2: going to win because the oppoite WI happened. But like

714
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: you know, that's between Trudeau quitting and Trump getting elected.

715
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: That explains ninety five percent of what's happening in Canadian politics.

716
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: Well, Johnathan K, thank you for being on this podcast.

717
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: Where can people go to read your stuff or read your

718
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: tweets anything?

719
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm on what used to be called Twitter at

720
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: John K j O n kay or you'll get more

721
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 2: of my mordant, acerbic, say anything bad boy Canadian social

722
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 2: and media offerings. But then my main gig is Quillette,

723
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 2: which is QUI double l E doublete It's an Australian outlet,

724
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 2: but my boss lets me publish all kinds of Canadian stuff,

725
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: assuming anyone listening to this has any appetite for you know,

726
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: usually like Americans call me when something, some huge epic

727
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: thing happens in Canada, like an election or something, but

728
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: then I don't hear from them in five years. So

729
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: it could be that like this sort of states your

730
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 2: audience until the next election. Bet who maybe we'll have

731
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: another trucker protest or something. I don't know.

732
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: Great, Well, thank you so much for being on this podcast.

733
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: Will speak to you soon and we'll see what goes

734
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: on on Monday. Hey, we'll be right back after this.

735
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: Now it's time for the ask Me Anything segment. You

736
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: can literally ask me any kind of question. Please email

737
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: me your questions. It's always great to get more and

738
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: different opinions and different questions about broad subject issues. It's

739
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: Ryan at Numbers Game Podcast dot com. That's ryanat numbers

740
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: Plural Game podcast dot com. Shoot me an email over

741
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: anything and I'll see if I know the answer, if

742
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: I could research it and give you my opinion. So

743
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: my question today was, as a Catholic, what will be

744
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: the legacy of Pope Francis, and who do you think

745
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: will be the next pope? Okay, I am very interested

746
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: in this question because I am a Catholic even though

747
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: I look and act and sound and everything Jewish, and

748
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: I'm from New York City. I'm a Jewish last name,

749
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: so people get confused all the time, but I am

750
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: in fact, born and raised Catholic on both sides of

751
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: my family. And hearing non Catholics do panels on radio

752
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: and television and podcasts in the last day and a

753
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: half or two days since he passed away has been

754
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: infuriating because they don't know what they're talking about. Most

755
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: of the Catholics know what they're talking about, but definitely

756
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: the non Catholics. They've been giving analysis over his Pope

757
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: Francis's leadership as a changing doctrine and you know how

758
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: we altered the Catholic Church and all the rest of

759
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: the stuff. A pope doesn't have the ability to change

760
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: doctrine on his own. That didn't happen. A pope doesn't

761
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: have the ability to change the Bible or to change

762
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: the Catechism on his own. None of that stuff actually happened.

763
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: While Pope Francis was Pope Francis who I had a

764
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: more critical opinion of, primarily because when there were big

765
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: issues affecting Catholics in countries that were predominantly Catholic, that

766
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 1: were that were that would have been a negative media

767
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: attention story for him, Like when Ireland legalized abortion, Pope

768
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: Francis was nowhere to be seen. He didn't to Ireland

769
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: a campaign against abortion. He didn't do really anything. He

770
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: didn't take a brave step whatsoever. He kind of let

771
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: the vote, you know. Labor Is and I got into

772
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: a fight. I remember one time with some of my

773
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: Catholic friends who said, oh, he would have been laughed

774
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: out of the country, and I was like, yeah, and

775
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: Peter died on a cross for Christ. I mean, so

776
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: what he would have been laughed out of the country.

777
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: Who cares you do what's right, especially if you are

778
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: a religious leader and a moral leader in the same

779
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be as respectful as possible in the

780
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: same vein as Pope John Paul the Second, who really

781
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: liked good media and good press. Pope Francis really liked

782
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 1: good media and good press and set things that were

783
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: doctortally untrue and were in conflict with the church in

784
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: order to garner positive press. It didn't change the doctrine

785
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: of the church. It just got him positive mentions from

786
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: liberal media. I have a big problem with that as

787
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: a person who tries really hard to stay as close

788
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: to the faith as I use as I possibly can,

789
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: and I don't just chasing whatever, you know, the whims

790
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: of a good headline or a good news article when

791
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: I see fit. That's my big thing. His legacy is

792
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: changing the College of Cardinals. He really made it much

793
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: more in the same quote end quote liberal vanishm it's

794
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: not like an American liberalism, it doesn't transfer as easily,

795
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: but made it much more liberal than a lot of

796
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: young priests in the Catholic Church are. Young priests in

797
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, especially from Western countries, are much more

798
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: conservative than people of post Francis's generation, much more a

799
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: part of the believer in the doctrine, and there's a

800
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: conflict in generations within the priesthood. So that's his ultimate thing,

801
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: is how he's going to change how we changed the

802
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: car College of Cardinals and how that will affect the

803
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: church going forward in the future. That's really his biggest legacy.

804
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: It's not a sexy legacy, so no one's not It's

805
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: not a sexy American news headline, so no one's going

806
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: to really be that interested. People who hated him will

807
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: call him a communist or socialist warrior. People who loved

808
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: him will call him a uh, you know, supporter of

809
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: the poor and the downtrotted or whatever whatever have you.

810
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: But really that's really the biggest part of his legacy.

811
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: Who will be Pope next? I would love to be

812
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: Cardinal Sarah. It's probably not gonna be him. He's too old.

813
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: They really try not to pick someone in his age bracket.

814
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 1: He would have been a great pope, though that would

815
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: have ever happened. So I don't think it's gonna be

816
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: Cardinal Sarah, which by some people on the right on

817
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: social media and saying, oh it's gonna be him. It's

818
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: not going to be very, very unlikely going to be

819
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: Cardinal Sarah. He's also way too conservative, I think for

820
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 1: the current college of cardinals, my money, if I had

821
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: to bet, would probably Cardinal Pietro Pauline. He is probably

822
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: also butchered his last name like Pierre from Canada. But

823
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: Cardinal Pietro is uh basically second in line. He's probably

824
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: the safest bet, the dark horse. The only one who

825
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: probably could upset this. It would be Cardinal Pi's a

826
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: balla that is a person's real name. He is from

827
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: Italy and his name is pieceabala It would be like JK.

828
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: Rowling or writing cardinal names and Harry Potter. But Cardinal

829
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: piece of bala Is is from He's from Italy. But

830
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: he is the cardinal for the Middle East and very

831
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: very bravely offered his life in exchange for the hostages

832
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:26,479
Speaker 1: during the during the war there over Gaza. And that's

833
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: a very honorable thing. That and a really real act

834
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: of courage on behalf of Cardinal of like that we

835
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: haven't seen very often. So that's my bet, though we'll

836
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: see what happens.

837
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 2: I don't know.

838
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: I don't make any decisions. I don't let the white

839
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: smoke go from the from from the Vatican.

840
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: Anyway.

841
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening again this week. I really appreciate it.

842
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: Please like and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast

843
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: where you get your podcast. We'll see you guys next week.