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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: and rates may vary well. In I continuing coverage and

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Speaker 1: Yes Local News Day on April ninth, circle your calendar's

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Speaker 1: local news Day in April ninth. One of my goals has

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Speaker 1: been to essentially profile, if you will, a different types

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Speaker 1: of local news startups that are out there, and obviously

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Speaker 1: part of the goal of Local News Day in April

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Speaker 1: ninth is to create more awareness out there. And there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of local news startups in your neighborhood

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Speaker 1: that you may have not heard about. Some of them

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Speaker 1: are very community specific, maybe for a smaller community that's

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Speaker 1: a part of your area. Maybe it's geographic, maybe it's ethnic,

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Speaker 1: but these startups are everywhere. And in fact, the profile

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Speaker 1: of the organization I want to showcase today is the

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Speaker 1: Sahan Journal. It's based in Minnesota, and we have the

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Speaker 1: publisher here with us, Vanan Muru Gayson. He's not the

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Speaker 1: original founder. He actually just he has essentially taken it

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Speaker 1: over and expanded it from its original intent. It is

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Speaker 1: a news organization that has been vital to the immigrant

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Speaker 1: community in Minneapolis in particular. But it's not just about

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Speaker 1: one community. You know, what's been interesting about Minneapolis over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of decades and what's given it some

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Speaker 1: amazing cultural features, if you will, that make it even

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Speaker 1: more unique place to visit today than it was thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago when Prince was walking the city the city streets,

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Speaker 1: is that it has a lot of new communities, the

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Speaker 1: Somali community among community, in addition to sort of maybe

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Speaker 1: more familiar immigrant communities that many of you have out

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Speaker 1: there and they're just doing gangbusters. And this is a

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Speaker 1: story of a local news outlet filling the vacuum for

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Speaker 1: a community that was just completely underserved. We know that

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Speaker 1: there are geographic news deserts, but sometimes there are community

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Speaker 1: news deserts. And I think what the Sohan Journal was

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Speaker 1: able to essentially a gap they were able to fill,

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Speaker 1: is for a community a news organization that doesn't just

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Speaker 1: meet them subject on the subject matters that they care about,

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Speaker 1: but also on the platforms that they use. And I

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Speaker 1: think this is something a lot of traditional newsrooms don't realize.

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Speaker 1: The various ways immigrant communities get their information. They're in

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Speaker 1: a lot different apps than the apps you see, whether

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Speaker 1: it's WhatsApp being a big one, even telegram, and so

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Speaker 1: the work that the Sahan Journal has done there I

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Speaker 1: think will serve as as something of for some of

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Speaker 1: you out there in this space. There's going to be

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Speaker 1: a lot to learn. So, without further ado, let me

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Speaker 1: bring Vonon into the conversation. Vonon, Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Chuck for having me. It's a pleasure to

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Speaker 2: be here today.

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Speaker 1: Well, before we get started, tell me how did I

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Speaker 1: do In the introduction to the news organization, and please

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Speaker 1: fill in some gaps. What did I miss? How would

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Speaker 1: you if you're in an elevator with me and we're

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Speaker 1: riding up fifteen flights, how are you describing it to somebody?

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Speaker 2: Oh, fifteen flights? Well that's quite generous.

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Speaker 1: A few here, yeah, I'm assuming we have five minutes, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Thanks for opportunity.

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Speaker 3: It's so great that yoursel reading you know, local news stap,

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Speaker 3: but also looking to uplift the different types of news

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Speaker 3: outlets that are working in this space, and in particular,

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Speaker 3: I'm here to talk a little bit about immigrants serving newsrooms,

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Speaker 3: and so I'll try to talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: SAHAN and so also maybe it gives your audience a

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Speaker 3: little bit of context around how immigrant newsrooms work. So

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Speaker 3: SAHAN was started twenty nineteen. You are right, I am

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Speaker 3: not the founder. The founder is actually his name is

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Speaker 3: Muktari brought him. He's a traditional journalist, really really good journalists.

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Speaker 3: He worked for the Star Tribune and he worked for

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Speaker 3: the MPR for Minnesota Public Radio News and at that

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Speaker 3: time he noticed something that you know, was not something

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Speaker 3: that he wasn't able to cover. You know, Minnesota has

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Speaker 3: one of the best local news scenes in the country.

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Speaker 2: As you know, that very true.

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Speaker 1: Look, it's funny you bring up Minnesota Public Radio, probably

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Speaker 1: one of the strongest affiliates of the NPR system that

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Speaker 1: there is.

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Speaker 3: Exactly particularly exactly exactly, and and yet he felt working

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Speaker 3: for both of these organizations, he felt there were still

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Speaker 3: important stories that were being missed that was important to

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Speaker 3: be covered, and the stories around the immigrant communities. You know,

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Speaker 3: he was somewhat disappointed at that time where he was

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Speaker 3: packed as the Somali journalist and he would cover Somali

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Speaker 3: issues and whatnot. And you know, at that time, unfortunately

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Speaker 3: and even in some places in some instances today, issues

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Speaker 3: from immigrants are talked around from a crime perspective or

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Speaker 3: things that of negative in nature.

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Speaker 2: Right, he grew very frustrated. And now this is the man.

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Speaker 2: Mind you. His wife was pregnant with his third maybe

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Speaker 2: fourth child, I think the third child.

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Speaker 3: He quit his job in the cold month of December

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Speaker 3: because he just couldn't take it anymore. And so he

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Speaker 3: started Sahan Journal because he felt like some of these

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Speaker 3: important stories were not showing up. And that's why newsrooms

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Speaker 3: like SAHAN exist in Minnesota today. And I just want

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Speaker 3: to I think it's important to also mention and this

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Speaker 3: is not a Minnesota thing. It's you know, it exists

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Speaker 3: all around the state, all around the country.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, right, Oh, I mean I could tell I

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Speaker 1: know growing up in so I grew up in Miami,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in South Florida. And one of the

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Speaker 1: hallmarks of the last ten years of local media is

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Speaker 1: how micro and community oriented it is. If you want

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Speaker 1: to talk to the Caribbean communities, there's actually individual you

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Speaker 1: need to talk to, this Instagram influencer, and you need

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Speaker 1: to talk to this person here. The demand in these

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Speaker 1: immigrant communities for somebody that looks like them, that understands

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Speaker 1: their life telling them today's news is through the roof.

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Speaker 1: I get it, and I think that this is why

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Speaker 1: I think this is. You guys are the best example

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Speaker 1: of I think one that's getting traction and creating a

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Speaker 1: revenue stream and all of this, because I think that's

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Speaker 1: the more difficult part is how do these become finanially sustainable? Right,

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Speaker 1: And this is all part of what we're working on

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Speaker 1: with Local news Day.

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Speaker 3: You know, I chucked, I'm going to use this line,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not sure how to resonate with you in

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Speaker 3: your audience. But I've said this before in the past,

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Speaker 3: I feel the impulse behind the creation and the need

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Speaker 3: behind immigrant newsrooms is very much the same impulse that

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Speaker 3: built kind of like Fox News where it is right now.

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Speaker 3: It's basically a community that for the most part has

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Speaker 3: felt either unseen or where traditional media their realities were

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Speaker 3: not reflected there in traditional legacy media. Now I would say,

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Speaker 3: obviously there is, That's where the point of similarity would end,

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Speaker 3: and how we would use that moment would be different.

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Speaker 3: But I you know, I'm not a journalist, I'm not

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Speaker 3: a I'm not a trained journalist, and I've always.

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Speaker 1: A mechanical engineer. Yeah, but you certainly are a numbers

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Speaker 1: guy and a mechanical engineer.

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Speaker 2: I did m my MBA. But I'm also a consumer.

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Speaker 3: I love business models, and I'm a consumer of news content,

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Speaker 3: and I've always observed news from a not just from

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Speaker 3: a reader. But hey, what's going on over here? And

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Speaker 3: I you know the fact that the first of all,

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Speaker 3: things have changed dramatically and I would say improved quite

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Speaker 3: a bit since since twenty twenty and since Shan has

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Speaker 3: been since created. But for the most part, people felt

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Speaker 3: their reality was not reflected in how traditional news media

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Speaker 3: portrayed it right, and so it was very important for

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Speaker 3: Sahan when we were when we were founded to make

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Speaker 3: sure that, yes, we are speaking to the facts, but

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Speaker 3: we are also making sure that people's lives are reflected

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Speaker 3: accurately in that space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now I get what you're saying, and I think

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Speaker 1: I can tell you my experience that meet the Press is,

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Speaker 1: particularly with immigrant audiences, is that a lot of I

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Speaker 1: had a lot of first gen viewers for generation viewers,

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Speaker 1: and they and they would tell me and it would frankly,

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing I do when I'm in a

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Speaker 1: foreign country, even for a week, which is I want

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Speaker 1: to assimilate and understand what's going on locally as quickly

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Speaker 1: as I possibly can. What's the best way to do it?

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Speaker 1: A lot of times it is through the news, and

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe there's a language barrier, and so maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm finding anything that's in my language that still reflects

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Speaker 1: what's going on in the community, or maybe you'll find

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Speaker 1: your expat community in a specific city. But the thing

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Speaker 1: is is that you know the sort of I think

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Speaker 1: the ignorance sometimes that we portray about like how we

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Speaker 1: behave when we move to a new area, we quickly

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Speaker 1: want to assimilate. Is how anybody behaves when they move

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Speaker 1: to a new area, which is they're constantly looking, but

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Speaker 1: they want to understand the place they're living in. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know, the first thing I'd be doing

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Speaker 1: if I lived in Malaysia would be to find the

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Speaker 1: Sunday whatever the equivalent of the political programs are, just

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Speaker 1: so I understood the lay of the land, I understood

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Speaker 1: the politics.

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Speaker 2: Of the area.

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Speaker 1: Frankly, it's a survival. It's for survival. You're not doing

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Speaker 1: it because you want to know. You're doing it because

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Speaker 1: how do I navigate this new community? Let me learn

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Speaker 1: the politics and economics of the new community exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, so in a nutshell, that's how that's what

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Speaker 3: SAHAN was was was was created.

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Speaker 2: You know, since then, you know, I have colleagues and I.

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Speaker 3: Know the leaders of MP, of minist of public radio

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Speaker 3: and Stout Tribune and whatnot, and things have dramatically changed

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Speaker 3: since then.

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Speaker 2: But I would say, just the thing though SAHAN, our.

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Speaker 3: Coverage is one focused on issues that impact immigrants and

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Speaker 3: communities of color, right, And I like to use this analogy,

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Speaker 3: So start Tribune and MPR, they're like, you know your

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Speaker 3: targets you know, or you know, I don't know what's the.

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Speaker 1: Grocery department store, but you're what you're saying is they

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Speaker 1: have a little bit for everybody, and everybody can find

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Speaker 1: something in a target that is meant for them. But

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Speaker 1: maybe that target doesn't have everything they're looking for, but

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Speaker 1: they have a couple of things they at least acknowledge

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Speaker 1: my existence exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: But if you want something very specific, and I use

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Speaker 3: grocery stores because I cook and eat a lot, But

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Speaker 3: if I want that bock CHOI vegetable, right, and even

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Speaker 3: though target sells it for whatever thing, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: go to that Asian stall two miles away just because

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Speaker 3: I know it's legit for whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: Right, And then you think that they're more likely to

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Speaker 1: find the smart, the better growers or back choi and

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Speaker 1: they know where to.

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Speaker 3: Get exactly exactly exactly. They're going to care a little

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Speaker 3: bit more. They care, They care much more. Frankly, for

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Speaker 3: that matter, they care much more. And they could also

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Speaker 3: provide insights that that the target may not have, right,

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Speaker 3: and that's not targets business podul.

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Speaker 2: They shouldn't care.

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Speaker 3: They cut care for everything, right, and so that's why

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Speaker 3: Sahan exists. We exist within this ecosphere if you care

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Speaker 3: about immigrants, and if you care about issues that the

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Speaker 3: main papers may not have the resources or time to cover,

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Speaker 3: which it does happen right there on the daily cycle.

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Speaker 2: That's why you come to Sahan.

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Speaker 3: Because you come to Sahan because you're curious, you're interested,

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Speaker 3: and you seek to understand issues more than just the

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Speaker 3: surface level.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about Sohan specifically, because you are doing

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Speaker 1: something that on paper wouldn't be easy to do, because

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Speaker 1: you're basically saying, look, we're going to cover all of

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Speaker 1: these underserved immigrant communities. And then while they have some

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Speaker 1: things in common, they actually don't have a lot in common. Right,

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Speaker 1: a Somali community versus among community versus a first generation

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Speaker 1: Mexican American community, right, like it is? It is not

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Speaker 1: so that actually I wonder how difficult that is. That's

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Speaker 1: your north star. But you're basically you know that that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty wide breadth of coverage. So, yeah, give me

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Speaker 1: a specific how does it? You know, what when do

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Speaker 1: you decide, Hey, this community needs we need a we

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Speaker 1: need a full time reporter for this community.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well we well, thank you Chuck Fall putting

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Speaker 3: my problems in a nutshell essentially, but thank you for that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, and part of our goal here, right, we're

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to solve how many of

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Speaker 1: these problems can we solve individually, and how many of

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Speaker 1: these problems are we going to have to build a

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Speaker 1: collective network for. I mean, I know I have a

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Speaker 1: vision of a of a collective network that can where

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Speaker 1: you get to keep your independence, but maybe there is

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Speaker 1: ways to share some expenses, right, and that's you know,

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Speaker 1: to make all of us a little more affordable.

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Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, So let me try to answer a question.

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Speaker 3: So a couple of things. So you know, Sahan is

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Speaker 3: six years old. So some of the things that you

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Speaker 3: bring up, we're still trying to crack the code, right,

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Speaker 3: you're trying to solve it, right, So a few things.

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Speaker 3: I think there was a deliberate, very deliberate decision that

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Speaker 3: was made when we were started. We published in English,

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Speaker 3: and that was deliberate because our mission is not to

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Speaker 3: just serve one pocket of immigrants, right, Like, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: we have a whole host of communities. We primarily suff

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Speaker 3: East Africans, Amongs of Hispanic, but it was also equally

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Speaker 3: important for us to show all Minnesotas, so the non

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Speaker 3: immigrants to a more equitable state. And that only works

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Speaker 3: if we have non immigrants of non immigrants reading our

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Speaker 3: work as well. Now, and we don't really bucket our

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Speaker 3: stories into Somali among Hispanic. We we do traditional beats healthcare, education,

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Speaker 3: social justice, you know, uh, police reforms uh sorry uh,

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Speaker 3: and security and crime, criminal justice and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes those stories relate to a Somoli

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Speaker 3: community modern than among community. As you can imagine, some

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Speaker 3: of the fraud coverage that we were covering right right

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Speaker 3: would would center on a particular community, So we don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily cover them by community. But about topic issues, now,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that we've noticed is that people

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Speaker 3: are not jumping from let's say I'm among person. I'm

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Speaker 3: not necessarily going to jump to the Hispanic main story

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Speaker 3: or a Mong story, sorry, a Somali story. And that's

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Speaker 3: something that we're trying to work through right now. But

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Speaker 3: for you, for the fact is that's one of the

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Speaker 3: challenges that we have. So we don't we we try

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Speaker 3: to cover things that matter to a particular community regardless

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Speaker 3: of their regardless of their background. Now, this is what

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Speaker 3: I would say though, and this is a little bit

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Speaker 3: of like a business model where you if you serve

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Speaker 3: the outlier case, you tend to also serve the general

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Speaker 3: public when it comes to education. Right, we wrote a

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Speaker 3: beautiful story. We've written step one. Our education reporter is

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Speaker 3: absolutely amazing and everywhere I'm blessed that everywhere I go

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Speaker 3: people talk about the reporters more than and the ones

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Speaker 3: that I've inherited from this job, so they're really good.

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Speaker 3: But when you talk about the education needs of the

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Speaker 3: current community or the Somali community, and it is uplift

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Speaker 3: it and regardless of your background, when you read it

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Speaker 3: and you're trying to improve the school system and you

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Speaker 3: care about the immigrant that particular community, you do uplift

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Speaker 3: your education system for your own child as well. And

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Speaker 3: so that's one of the things that we've learned that

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Speaker 3: we've seen where you know, the majority non immigrant population

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Speaker 3: in Minnesota still use our news content as their source

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Speaker 3: of not just information, but to advocate for their own

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Speaker 3: child's education system. I can't tell you the amount of

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Speaker 3: moms that I've bumped into who use our education stories

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Speaker 3: in their mom's chat group, right, because we are at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, it is a meltic body,

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Speaker 3: is a multi racial society, and what's best for this

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Speaker 3: child is also good for my genile And so it's

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Speaker 3: not as binary as you think as one would think,

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Speaker 3: you know, which is what I walked into. But I

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Speaker 3: you know, I learned quite a number of things as

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Speaker 3: into my new role.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you said that, you guys, are

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Speaker 1: you always publish in English? Do you think you're leaving

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Speaker 1: any readers on the it is? I mean, does the

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Speaker 1: effort to publish in multiple languages? I mean, is that

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Speaker 1: a how much of that is a financial decision? And

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Speaker 1: how much of it is Look, I know, like I said,

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Speaker 1: had grown up in Miami. When I grew up in

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Speaker 1: Miami in the seventies and eighties, I knew many I

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Speaker 1: had many friends whose parents insisted that English bespoke in

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Speaker 1: the house, even though they were Spanish first parents, because

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Speaker 1: they wanted their kids to assimilate to America. So I

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Speaker 1: know there's a lot of immigrant parents who are here

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Speaker 1: with their kids and they're like, no, no, no, no, you've got

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Speaker 1: to we want you to assimilate into American cultures. So

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Speaker 1: we'll do this. So I understand that five there, but

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Speaker 1: I'm curious if you looking at the numbers, if you've

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Speaker 1: ever contemplated, well maybe we should or I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It is an ongoing conversation. And let me let me clarify. Yes,

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Speaker 3: we do publish in English, and last year we started

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Speaker 3: Sahan and Espaniels and then you can imagine what that is, right,

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Speaker 3: and so we do have translations in Hispanic, and we

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Speaker 3: chose Hispanic because they are the largest immigrant population within Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: It is okay, it is, I mean, Somali is very

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Speaker 2: close to second.

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Speaker 1: But but this is state wide versus city. If you

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Speaker 1: just did this in Minneapolis proper, would it be Somali

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Speaker 1: over Latino.

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the numbers I mentioned was statewide. Yeah yeah, absolutely right,

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Speaker 3: yeah yeah. And so here I'm not going to throw

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Speaker 3: anyone under the bus here, but I got to tell

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Speaker 3: you the founder and our editor in chief, they are

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Speaker 3: really picky if they feel like they cannot get the

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Speaker 3: translation right. They were not going to do it at

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Speaker 3: all because they felt like it would insult that population,

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Speaker 3: that community.

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Speaker 1: That is also true, and they're looking forward to how

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Speaker 1: Ai blows this exactly.

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Speaker 3: So and if you if you want to think about

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Speaker 3: AI explosion and technology. This we're talking about the last

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Speaker 3: twelve months. But before I, when I came on board,

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Speaker 3: it was that was what I heard, like, we can't

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Speaker 3: do if we can't do this right, which means actually

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Speaker 3: have actually having a human translator translated from a cultural

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Speaker 3: context chunk. Don't forget, I'm not talking about word usage here,

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Speaker 3: but it's a word for a word.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy. No, no, no, no, that's always much much

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Speaker 1: harder to connect.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: So our our editor in chief was man and and

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Speaker 3: founders Somali. They were like, Nope, not going to do it,

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Speaker 3: not going to do it, because it's it's too expensive

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Speaker 3: to have a human translator.

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Speaker 2: Right now. I've always wondered when I came on board,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: And now he's two things that we've that I've I've

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Speaker 3: seen a we've seen a lot of articles where it's

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Speaker 3: published in English and then the comment section is in

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Speaker 3: the native town like someone's yep.

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Speaker 1: Because it's as server posted on our somewhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And so the the the assumption that we're pulling is

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Speaker 3: that people are just reading it, but then they're communicating

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Speaker 3: to the community about the content in their own language.

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Speaker 1: Right, So that's perfectly normal. Yeah, perfectly normal.

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Speaker 3: And I've seen that in my own life. But then

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Speaker 3: now I'm seeing now news from like, huh, that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: And yes, I too, am a customer. We've all experienced this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly, and that's probably the second generation immigrant

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Speaker 3: population that we're referring to. And now the third thing

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Speaker 3: is this AI thing. It is ridiculous how you can

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Speaker 3: press a button here and people, there's two options. We

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00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: can provide the button to be pressed so that the

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Speaker 3: language is translated, but you could also just click on

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00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: a page and google whoever it is your your provider

435
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 3: is going to say translated yourself. Right, So we are

436
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 3: at a crossroads right now. My one of my team member,

437
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 3: my growth person, brought this idea to me and say, hey,

438
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: do you just want to have three buttons up there, English, Somali,

439
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 3: mong up the top and so people can just click

440
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 3: And I would say, at this point we could explore it.

441
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 3: It's a slightly lower list I have my my it's

442
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: a it's a lower lift and what it was twelve

443
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 3: months ago, that's for sure, right. And my curiosity around

444
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 3: audience growth is not necessarily around language, but it's around

445
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: the needs, the information needs of a particular generation. So

446
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 3: I hope that answers your question, because it wasn't curiosity

447
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 3: that excid that I was curious.

448
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: I was thinking about, Well.

449
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you know, newsrooms make

450
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: the mistakes sometimes where they think, we know we have

451
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: to do this, let's not use an outside tool, let's

452
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: not assume, and sometimes your own readers will do it.

453
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: So go ahead and embrace what their tools may be,

454
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: and then you just offer them all right. You know,

455
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: it's almost like you let your readers some of you

456
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: want to translate this, how do you want it done?

457
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: You know, do you have a favorite. Most people might

458
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: have their own way. You know what, I use my

459
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: own translator. I don't need you. Maybe you guys can

460
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: come up with a better one. But you're reinventing the

461
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: wheel here, and you know what, it turns out none

462
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: of us have the resources to reinvent wheels. In the

463
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 1: local news space, We've got to save every dollar that's

464
00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: possible here. So you know where you can share a resource? Well, great, Hey,

465
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: here's Google. Here's the button for Google Translate. Here's the

466
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: button for Apple's version. Here's the button for open Ais

467
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: and Clauds or whatever. Right, and I buy that. Let's

468
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: talk about your business model. Yeah, do you imagine that

469
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: you're always going to be a nonprofit or do you

470
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: see the do you see a vision here? Because you know,

471
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: being when you're serving an underserved community, your opportunity to

472
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: have a classified ad system, I think is probably higher

473
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: than a more general news local news outlet. The opportunity

474
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: that you have specific businesses that want to target, you know,

475
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: your community that you're serving because they provide services that

476
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: over index with immigrant populations. Right, So I imagine there

477
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: is some interesting business opportunities that you have. What's working?

478
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: What do you think is underutilized that you're hoping to

479
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: experiment with, and do you think this can move from

480
00:25:58,920 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: nonprofit to for profuit?

481
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: You know, I as part of my homework, I did

482
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 3: hear the interview that you did with John and there

483
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: was a line that he said that I think resonates

484
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 3: with a lot of people. The nonprofit for profit that's

485
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: essentially a tax status right at the end of the day.

486
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: Yep.

487
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 3: And the key here is sustainability. That's all what we

488
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 3: that's all we want. We want to have enough money.

489
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 1: Whatever the whatever, the your whatever your tax is, are

490
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: you sustainable or unsustainable?

491
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: Exactly?

492
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: I think one big difference is if you are a

493
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: nonprofit and you have a banner year, you are reinvesting

494
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 3: those dollars into the community and into the work as

495
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: opposed to going to a shareholder or whatnot. Right, So

496
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 3: the goal here is so let me try to talk

497
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 3: about it from a sustainability perspective.

498
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: Chuck, that's a great way, perfect, perfect is that?

499
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: Okay? Yeah?

500
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we move the for profit, so be it that.

501
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: I'm guessing I'm going to have to pay lawyers a

502
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 3: bunch of money to make that happen. But this is

503
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: what we really want.

504
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: So he's either way.

505
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: Lawyers, either way, because you gotta pay a smart account

506
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: and a lawyer and the not for profit and nonprofit

507
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: all of it, right, like, no matter what. So that's

508
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: why everybody tells tells their kids a go to law

509
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: school because there's always a job.

510
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, Yeah.

511
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 3: So let me talk about sustainability here and you I'm

512
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: not I'm sure you are familiar with this, but let

513
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: me share out this story for your audience if they're

514
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: not so familiar, but local for a nonprofit entity, it's

515
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 3: usually the national funders who come in to catalyze a

516
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: news room, right, and so they see a need, right,

517
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: hey in Minnesota, great news ecosystem, but man, that's the

518
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: huge segment of the population that's been neglected.

519
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 2: Boom, let's invest in sahanj you know, Okay.

520
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: And then from a national foundation perspective, they like that,

521
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: you know, they they catalyze they whatever you want to

522
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: call it, the shiny object kind of thing. But eventually

523
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 3: they belief and I agree with them that the work

524
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 3: needs to be sustained from a from the local foundation perspective,

525
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: from the local readers perspective, and whatnot, right and that's

526
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: the journey where Sahana is in this midpoint. We still

527
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 3: have national funders, but the conversation is that, hey, we

528
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: need a little bit more time. But we are slowly

529
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: moving into local foundations, in local readers. Right if eventually

530
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: we end up becoming like a public like the NPR model,

531
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: where I think you're I don't know what's the number,

532
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: but anywhere between sixty to seventy percent funded by your audience, right,

533
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: and then the remaining to other maybe it's foundations, a

534
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,239
Speaker 3: couple of foundations here there, but other business ventures. I

535
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: think that is where we need to be, whether we

536
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: are for profit.

537
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 2: So for profit is going to be like a paywall system.

538
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: I guess if you want to call it but nonprofit

539
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: then people are paying twenty bucks a month. They pay

540
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 3: twenty bucks for Netflix. Now they're paying some twenty dollars

541
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 3: a month. And that's the key piece here because when

542
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 3: we have a lot of majority, if our revenue comes

543
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 3: from individual donors, then we are not beholden to some

544
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: of this.

545
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: I mean, it does happen. We are not beholden to

546
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: lunch lunch. You know, big.

547
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: Donors and and and and and and big onus, right, the.

548
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: Right you don't want to have, right, No, I know,

549
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: I know what you mean, meaning like you're you're you

550
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: either have shareholders. That's one thing and they demand and

551
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: it really is look they they demand. It's a judiciary

552
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: responsibility that that word means something for a reason. Right,

553
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: It is about maximizing your profits hard stocks, actly right.

554
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: There is not a there is not a character test

555
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: on that, right, it is just maximizing profits an individual.

556
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: I always say, you know, you can have a benevolent

557
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: billionaire or a malevolent billionaire, or you could have a

558
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: billionaire who's both malevola some years and benevolent other exactly right, exactly,

559
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: and relying on the whim of one. That means you're

560
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: always going to be defined by that one, for better

561
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: or for worse. I mean, you know, look at the

562
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: Washington Post, They're being defined by their individual owner. I

563
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: never thought the Washington Post would ever put itself in

564
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: that situation, right, it was like, you know, most people

565
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: can't tell you the name of who owns the New

566
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 1: York Times. That should be how the Washington Post works,

567
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: even the Wall Street Journal. I think a lot of

568
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: people don't fully a lot of you know, I'm guessing

569
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: if you're in the business, you know who owns it.

570
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: But I bet you it isn't easily known, right, because

571
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: the murdocks are so afraid of the Wall Steret Journal

572
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: losing its prestige, they kind.

573
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: Of back off, back off.

574
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: They don't want it. They don't want to be the

575
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: defining image and brand of that. So I totally understand

576
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: what I'm curious about, because this is what happened to

577
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: the successful black press news organizations of the thirties, forties,

578
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: and fifties in sixties, where it was incredibly necessary until

579
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: mainstream media finally acknowledge the existence of these communities. Then

580
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: over time, the resources of those large news organizations suddenly

581
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: finally covering Black America made it harder for the black

582
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: press to to you know, survive in that in that instance,

583
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: I mean, look, this would be a good problem for

584
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: your communities to have Suddenly the start tribune had the

585
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: resources to cover it all. Is that something or do

586
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: you think we're you know, we're in it. This is

587
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: a generational shift in how the information ecosystem on a

588
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: local level is going to work.

589
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you work I came from a

590
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: nonprofit background before this right, And if at the end

591
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 3: of the day your job is to kind of work

592
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: yourself out of the job at the end of the day,

593
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: that means, like some point.

594
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: If you're doing it well, if you're using nonprofit, well,

595
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: that's exactly right, that whatever you're doing, you should eventually

596
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: not have to be doing that because exactly your investment

597
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: was so smart and targeted that it got it thrives.

598
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: On its own exactly. So. But let me go back

599
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: to what you were saying. Here's so, here's my theory.

600
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 2: I do think.

601
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: Fundamentally we do need to be reader funded by a readers,

602
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: like a big portion, more than fifty percent, sixty maybe

603
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 3: even seventy percent. And I don't know what the exact

604
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 3: number is, and and that's something that we have to

605
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 3: work it through. I have also I also have a theory. Again,

606
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: I'm saying this again because I'm not a journalist, so

607
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: I might be saying things that might make me look

608
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 3: dumb or whatnot. But I I'm not convinced. I'm not

609
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: convinced that audience size is our is it panacea? That's

610
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: the word panacee. Yeah, we do. We need to do

611
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: a good job. We need to have a sizeable audio.

612
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: It's not just from an impact perspective, right you guys

613
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 3: talk about here, you write the best article in the.

614
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: One than five people read it? Who cares? Right?

615
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: Right? So okay, So if it's not five, how about

616
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 3: five thousand volient? How about fifty thousand? What maybe is

617
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: half a million dollars but half a million. But here's

618
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: the thing, Chuck. If our reader right now, if our

619
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: readers we have let's say about two hundred thousand a month,

620
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: it goes up to three hundred thousand a month or

621
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: four hundred thousand a month, does that mean our revenue

622
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: says double? No, it's not right. I don't think so,

623
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: because it's not. It's not a one for one thing,

624
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: right we. Part of it feels that we talk about

625
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: readers size because it's still tied to the old way.

626
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: Of making money, which was advertising. Right. And the way

627
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: I look.

628
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: At audience size is that it is important for legitimacy,

629
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,959
Speaker 3: It is important for impact. Even if ten people read that,

630
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 3: and those ten people happened to be state legislatures.

631
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: Good for good for saha. Oh absolutely right.

632
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, my NBAC, I can tell you the business

633
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: model for CNBC is not ratings they've never had. There's

634
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: not a lot of people that watch the stocks every day.

635
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: But you know it's the NBC cells. They have CEOs

636
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: who keep their TV on, So it's the it's they're

637
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: selling who's watching, They're not selling how many are watching.

638
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: And what you're saying is the quality of your reader

639
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: is as important to yours.

640
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 3: As important exactly, and so yes, we you know, is

641
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 3: that what the girl audience? Yes, I think if we

642
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: have time to talk about in the future, we'll talk

643
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 3: about where we want to grow next.

644
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: But I I.

645
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 3: We we do need an excizeable audience, but we need

646
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 3: to leverage that audience.

647
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 2: How do I say.

648
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 3: The understanding of what SAHAN means the brand right, and

649
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: how can we make money from that? We've talked about.

650
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,919
Speaker 3: I mean you've already seen events. They've talked about creating events, right.

651
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: John fest like that.

652
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean I could see all sorts of that, you know,

653
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: a quarterly festival of some sort of cultural might be news,

654
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: might be you know whatever, right exactly.

655
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: You know I've talked to out. I think the future

656
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: generation people are yearning for a sense of community and

657
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: what can SAHAN do to create that sense of community? Right,

658
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: and when they have this thing from us, I'm sure

659
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 3: they will continue to support Sahan. So I don't have

660
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 3: a full answer yet, but I've told this to my

661
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: team before. It's become a broken record to the point

662
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: where I actually need to do it. But if I

663
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: find out that, hey, a laundromat that has a net

664
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: profit margin of thirty percent, maybe Sahan should just own

665
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: laundromets and turn the profit margins to fund for newsroom.

666
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 3: Because I don't care as long as it's clean, legit money, obviously,

667
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, if we can

668
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 3: transfer some of our net earnings from one unrelated business

669
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 3: model to support our newsroom, that's a win for me.

670
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 2: You know. I find it so unfortunate that.

671
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: But that's exactly how media has always been funded. You know.

672
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: It's interesting take. You know, I sort of joke that

673
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: a man named Craig decided classified how to be free, YadA, YadA, YadA,

674
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: we destroyed the entire local news ecosystem, right, Well, it

675
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: turned out for a lot of news organizations, you know,

676
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: and this was true of some newspaper publishers. They believe

677
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: they were running an advertising business and whatever space they

678
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: couldn't fill an ad they had to have a news article,

679
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: you know, And and I think that that is how

680
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: some news publishers felt it was simply a vehicle for

681
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: advertisement and and you know, and so you know, there

682
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: is that there there there is that line there that

683
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: I that I think is that that there was probably

684
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: some truth to that. But you're not wrong. It's like whatever,

685
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: you know, you may stumble on, like I've got this

686
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: theory that there's a lot of money to be made

687
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: in youth.

688
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: Sports exactly yep, and that youth.

689
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: Sports can be a way to become the new classified

690
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: advertising for local journalism. So youth sports is something that

691
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: families of all shapes and sizes care about. Everybody is

692
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: you know what, and there's always a there's we have

693
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: our kids participating in It is a glue for a community.

694
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: It they are always you know, it is very niche.

695
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's also something everybody has

696
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: in common. No matter how wealthy you are or how

697
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: poor you are, you may have a kid who's playing

698
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: in participating in youth sports. So you may stumble upon

699
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: a way to showcase youth sports games that make a

700
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: ton of money that finances the journalism so I totally

701
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: see where you're going.

702
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thank you for you know, Amazon was not

703
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 3: really profitable until they stumbled on I'm not going to

704
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: use stumble because the person will be insulted, but Amazon

705
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 3: Web Service isn't this right finally to quantify.

706
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: That they're the profit engine, And that's right. I don't

707
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: know exactly, I don't know if Amazon has ever made

708
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: money as a retail outlet. It acquired audience, right, it

709
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: was a loss leader, and you know they just wanted

710
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: it quickly. I mean, look at how they've suckered us

711
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: all in on streaming services. Right. It turns out we

712
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: all got addicted at three and four dollars a month, Like, okay, great,

713
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: now it's nineteen ninety nine a month. Whoa, whoa? What

714
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: am I all of a sudden, I'm spaying what up

715
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: out of the cable bundle? Right, Like, we're all going,

716
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: exactly where did that go?

717
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 2: So?

718
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 3: I think that's where we're that's that's where we're looking,

719
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: that's the that's the moment we're looking for. Like, so

720
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: I found this is one of my surprising things. And

721
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 3: you are probably going to say, yeah, what if you

722
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 3: didn't know that? But newsrooms can be conservative at times

723
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: in terms of what they're willing to try out from

724
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 3: a business model perspective. I'm fortunate that I'm not that

725
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 3: in that space. You know, I work with I'm in

726
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 3: a coalition with other newsrooms, like like newsrooms documented in

727
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 3: New York, el Tim Bunnel in the Bay Area and

728
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 3: then connect to Arizona, and we are working. You know,

729
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 3: it's funded by Press Forward Press Forward Foundation. Yeap, you're

730
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: familiar with that, and we are trying to identify new revenue,

731
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: new revenue streams for not just newsrooms, but in the

732
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: immigrants serving newsrooms, and so we are you know, we're

733
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: piloting a few things with testing thing mouth, but the

734
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: spirit of being an immigrant and where you're not tied

735
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 3: to sit in traditional legacy media practices allows us to

736
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 3: push things out in the boundaries. And hey, if we

737
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 3: have some good news to share, I love to be

738
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 3: coming back to your show with my colleagues to talk

739
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: about how we are making money to support the work.

740
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,920
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771
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Speaker 1: So have you networked with other immigrant focused news organizations

772
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: around the country, and if so, tell me about that network.

773
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: How how much of you how how much of it

774
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: is it? How loose is it or how specific does it?

775
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 2: Get? Sure?

776
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 3: Yes, So on my first day, on my first week,

777
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: I even before going to the office, I met with

778
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 3: this this group. So we call ourselves in I n

779
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 3: C Immigrant Newsroom Coalition. Right now, it's just it's it's document.

780
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 3: Like I'm going to say it, names again, documented in

781
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 3: New York, SAHAN in Minneapolis, out Timpano in the Bay Area,

782
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: and connect to Arizona. Each of us have very different,

783
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 3: you know, slightly different for sure, different audiences, different business models. Uh.

784
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 3: And they've just taken me on board to just not

785
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: just to educate me about the industry, to welcome me,

786
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 3: to tell me, hey, yeah, this is how it is

787
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: in the in in the space that we're operating in.

788
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 3: And and we we meet weekly. This is a very

789
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 3: dedicated group of leaders and news rooms.

790
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: Very so this is national. You do like a weekly

791
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: zoom or something.

792
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: We do a weekly zoom.

793
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 3: We we meet quarterly for a retreat to strategize, and

794
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 3: you know, we we have a few we're.

795
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: Working through a few things.

796
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 3: I mentioned a little bit about our revenue, the different

797
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 3: pilots we're testing out to bring in new revenue streams.

798
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: But we feel but one of the and we're working

799
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 3: through a few initiatives right now. I think one big

800
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 3: part is to continue to to to impress upon important

801
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 3: stakeholders like you know, Chuck, you you got you get

802
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 3: the message, and you got the message pretty loud and

803
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: clear early on in your life. And the same fact

804
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 3: is not everyone is in that space, you know, And

805
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 3: so we do feel like we do need to champion

806
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 3: we do need to champion the needs of immigrant serving newsrooms.

807
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: You know, we have some really good newsrooms out there

808
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 3: around the country that that's still.

809
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: Something about them. Tell me a couple of partners that

810
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: you think people ought to be aware of that you

811
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: look to as where you've learned something, you've taken something.

812
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: Obviously you guys share best practices. So yeah, i'd love

813
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: I'd love a couple of shout outs.

814
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, sure, let me So I'm going to use God,

815
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: you're putting me in a spot where I feel like

816
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 3: I'm picking favorites here, then I'm.

817
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: Going to get on exactly.

818
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 3: So one of my favorite So, I think one one

819
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 3: key thing that that is in common with all immigrant

820
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 3: serving news rooms that I've observed is the lack of

821
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: adherence to certain practices that traditional media tends to follow.

822
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 3: And so I would one of my favorite stories is

823
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 3: from Connector a Reason, So the founders Marizza Felix and

824
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to butcher her origin story, but it's pretty

825
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 3: cool for what it's worth. During COVID pandemic, you know,

826
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: her mom who lives on the other side of the

827
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 3: border with she would be on the phone with her

828
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 3: mother talking about COVID precautionary stuff and all this stuff,

829
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 3: and her mom was receiving incorrect information, and so she

830
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 3: would spend a lot of time just speaking to her

831
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 3: mother over the phone. She said, And Mariita is a

832
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: journalist herself, and that phone call became in my mind,

833
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 3: it became like an audio newsletter because right now she does.

834
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 3: If you go to journal dot com, you're going to

835
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 3: see something that looks like a traditional website, and Mariza's

836
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 3: connected result does not have that because her primary content

837
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 3: is still through WhatsApp channels. Right, So someone could say

838
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 3: I have five hundred newsletter subscribers, she will say I

839
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 3: have five hundred. I don't know what terminology she uses,

840
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 3: like WhatsApp subscribers, right.

841
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: But I'm so glad you brought up WhatsApp in general,

842
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: because I don't think people realize how global and how

843
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: it's such an important lifeline to so many immigrant communities

844
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: in America because it's global exactly.

845
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: So I.

846
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: Can'd of remember when but I was walking past her,

847
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 3: she was just filming a WhatsApp, she was reading a script,

848
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 3: she was basically reading her content, and she said she

849
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 3: was going to send push to all of her subscribers, right, So.

850
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 2: Isn't that I mean, that's.

851
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 3: Really cool, Chuck how many legacy news rooms would say

852
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: they would do that to connect primarily with the audience,

853
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: because there is a deep understanding that my audience are

854
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: auditory audience as opposed to they would prefer things over right.

855
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: So I think this is what you know. It's funny

856
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: if you look at the history of media, and one

857
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: of the things I like to remind people is that, like, actually,

858
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: disruption is a feature, not about meaning. It starts with

859
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: when we figured out how to reproduce photographs, then people

860
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: launched a bunch of magazines because we could now reprint photographs.

861
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: When we figured out how to transmit audio, we had

862
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: radio stations everywhere. When we figured out how to do

863
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: moving pictures, then we got television right like, and so

864
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: what we're in now is this fragmenting stage and the

865
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: specialization stage where there is no barrier to entry to

866
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: create news and information anymore. There's no you know, look

867
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: at the organization. I used to work at NBC. We

868
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: used to have a feature called where in the world

869
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: is you know, filling the anchor blanks? You know that name,

870
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: because we're going to go live from the Gobi Desert.

871
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: We're going to go live from Antarctica, and it was

872
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,959
Speaker 1: such a marvel ten fifteen years ago that we could

873
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: take you lot. Anybody can go live from Antarctica. You've

874
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: got to get there, okay, But you could have an

875
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: ant correspondent today. You could find somebody that lives there

876
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: and they could real time transmit information back and forth.

877
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: The point being is, I think the future of news

878
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: delivery is going to be personal. It is going to

879
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: come through trusted curators. The person that conveys the information

880
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: maybe part of a larger network that aggregates information collectively. Right,

881
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: we may all work in some of these same newsrooms together.

882
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: We may bundle like I could see, you know, I

883
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: bet you in the future, I'm gonna, hey, I want

884
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: I want to subscribe to all Minnesota publications for one

885
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month and I'll get a bundled fee

886
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: or I want you know, you know, and everybody will

887
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: get a piece of that, and maybe that's how I'll

888
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: roll there. But I just think we're going to the

889
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: way people come into a news organization is going to

890
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: be personal, not based on a brand, but based on

891
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: an individual. I just think that, and you just described

892
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: the individual way that suddenly half a million people showed up.

893
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: In exactly Yep.

894
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 3: It's one individual way and that's just it's with WhatsApp, right,

895
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of information that's been shared over SMS.

896
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 3: Now Sahans started from it and it's still predominantly like

897
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: a very traditional outlet right now. We do really good

898
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 3: work with social media, with TikTok and with our video content,

899
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 3: and that's why we over index with not just immigrant population,

900
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 3: but young immigrant population, something that I'm really proud of.

901
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: But the.

902
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 3: I think what I said earlier, what was it? The

903
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 3: lack of adherence to legacy practices binds us together not

904
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 3: just from a content creation, content distribution, but also from

905
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 3: a revenue generation perspective. So we are willing to take

906
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 3: a risk. We take a risk coming to this country.

907
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: We believe in the ideals supports in this country. We're

908
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 3: willing to take a risk, and it shows up in

909
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: the way we run our organizations.

910
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: Well, look, I anyway, it's very exciting. I think these possibilities.

911
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: Let me ask this, what kind of of are you

912
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: syndicating your work yet? Meaning you know it's the Star

913
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: Tribute said, you know what, we want to improve our

914
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: coverage and it may be I'm curious if you would

915
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: do this or would you see this is too close,

916
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: too competitive?

917
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 3: No, no, we actually do that already. So we have

918
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 3: you know, I walked into a Kumba.

919
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: Kumbay.

920
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 3: Kumbay is what I'm learning here and Kumbaya, I got

921
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 3: you situation.

922
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 2: Yep.

923
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 3: So you know Sahan was incubated Minnesota.

924
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 1: Nice. Please, it's Minnesota nice. You guys are all too cooperative, right.

925
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: Hey, I that's some friendly competition.

926
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 3: But you know, Sahan was incubated at Minnesota Public Radio,

927
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: like Mukar had a desk in there. They they funded

928
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 3: the first million dollars. They was far and so I

929
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 3: think I look, first of all, I look about Sahan

930
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: listening Minnesota Public Radio.

931
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: So we do have content already collaborating. We are already

932
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: collaborating the Start Tribune.

933
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 3: I believe every Sunday chooses one article that we run,

934
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 3: that we've published, and then they put it into their

935
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 3: circulation and say this is an article. You know, they

936
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 3: because they realize that of the value, our value the ecosystem,

937
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 3: and we also realized that they have the reach that

938
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: we don't. We will never get. Well, I wouldn't say

939
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 3: we will never get because my team will slaughter be.

940
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 3: We're not We're not there yet, right, yeah, So we

941
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 3: are cooperating around along those lines. I'm really excited that

942
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 3: we are also collaborating. We are finding stories that we

943
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 3: can collaborate on, you know, because frankly, if you I'm

944
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 3: sure you are aware of what happened in the first

945
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 3: quarter of the year in Minneapolis.

946
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: And this was a case where the story is so

947
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: big it doesn't matter. You kind of needed each other

948
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: as resources and.

949
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 3: Exactly so we found some some we found some opportunities

950
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 3: to collaborate editorially, and I'm extremely curious to see how

951
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 3: that plays out.

952
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: Let me close with this, you know, I'm I look

953
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: at I look at local news into two ways, and

954
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: I think the mistake, the reason national news never has

955
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: the trust that local news has, I believe is simply

956
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: national news is news. You you should know. It's it's

957
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: civics class, okay. And I say that not as a

958
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: way to knock it. It's what it should be at

959
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 1: its best. It is because you know, but local news

960
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: sometimes is civics and sometimes it's just very personal. It's

961
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: service journalism, meaning it ain't the greatest, it ain't the

962
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: sexiest story. Oh you know. But if you're helping your

963
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: readers save money, save time, live their lives, you're just

964
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: helping them live their life a little better.

965
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: It does.

966
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: It isn't always telling them who's corrupt. Sometimes it is

967
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: letting them know where to find more affordable chicken, right

968
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 1: like you know? And I used to say, the reason

969
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: that the local newspaper has such a nostalgic field for

970
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: some of us is because it was they had had

971
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: something for everybody, right if the news junkie, the puzzle junkie,

972
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: the sports junkie, the coupon clipper, the whatever you want

973
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: to look, the person looking for a job. Right, there

974
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: were there was a It was one entity that provided

975
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: service to eight to ten different parts of the community.

976
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: How would you describe at the Shan Journal? What are there's?

977
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 1: There's there's the news that we'd all traditionally sense. What

978
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: are type of this?

979
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: What?

980
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: What tell me your service oriented type of journalism? And

981
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: how much culture? How much you know youth coverage, sports, food, entertainment?

982
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: You know?

983
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: Are you are you? I know those are luxury items

984
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: as you row, right, it's a news organization. But where

985
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: are you on that? And and what do your readers want.

986
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, ultimately you should be only providing what

987
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: your readers actually correct, what.

988
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: What would consume correct.

989
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 3: We it's it's a let me trying to unpack this

990
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 3: question a little bit here, but uh, we we do

991
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: a really good job when it comes to hard hitting

992
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 3: news that impact immigrants, and so we don't we will

993
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 3: we will never run away from that.

994
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 2: We will not stay away from it, right.

995
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 3: We We also strongly believe that if it was if

996
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 3: there was something that that that was hot to be

997
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 3: covered from an from an immigrant community perspective, we are

998
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 3: the best ones to do it because we we bring

999
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 3: a lot of perspective that that that that.

1000
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: Matter to the reader.

1001
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 3: Now along the lines of like what you just said,

1002
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 3: it's also very my dog just walked in. Sorry, there

1003
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: are a lot of there are a lot of parts

1004
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 3: about being an immigrant that that needs to be celebrated,

1005
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: that needs to be looked at from a from a

1006
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 3: joyful perspective that oftentimes is missing in coverage. And that's

1007
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 3: a piece that we that we also seek to highlight

1008
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 3: because it shows the whole, the whole, the whole picture

1009
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 3: of what it means to be an immigrant within in Minnesota. Right,

1010
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 3: so yeah, we cover we cover you can cover your

1011
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 3: restaurant openings, but we cover the holidays that are being

1012
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 3: celebrated by these different communities.

1013
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: Right.

1014
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 3: We just did a beautiful story about Ramadan and also eat.

1015
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 3: I have so many I'm not going to share these stories,

1016
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 3: but I have so many. We have stories about the

1017
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 3: passing of a father from a Mong father, Monk farmer father,

1018
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 3: and how it was celebrated by the community that was

1019
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 3: you know, Mong, but also uh also white in the suburbs.

1020
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 3: So I we we don't. We don't cover sports, and

1021
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 3: that's that's okay, that's okay.

1022
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: But you will, I promise you at some point you might.

1023
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1024
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and a bit of art arts are being celebrated,

1025
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 3: but uh, and and and and and we feel like

1026
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 3: that's a good opportunity for the population to understand the

1027
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 3: immigrants space within.

1028
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:20,879
Speaker 2: The art space. And so yeah, we we do.

1029
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 3: I call it the candy broccoli analogy. I think you

1030
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 3: guys used news that people need to have versus what

1031
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 3: they want. So it's the candy broccoli thing. And so

1032
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 3: that's a fair mix of that.

1033
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1034
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: Well, anyway, I I've enjoyed this conversation and I know

1035
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: everything I've heard about and and been reading about Sahan

1036
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: Journal has been I mean, you guys seem to be

1037
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: a bright a bright spot here and in these and

1038
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 1: this growing local entrepreneur space.

1039
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 2: And thank you, thank you so much.

1040
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: No, I think a lot of Like I said, the

1041
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: barrier entry has never been lower, but you know you

1042
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: still got to jump.

1043
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, thank you.

1044
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 3: I I appreciate you highlight think the importance of local news.

1045
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 2: I completely agree with you.

1046
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 3: There's a very very strong there's some study that has

1047
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 3: shown that local news is also less divisive.

1048
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: Right.

1049
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 3: We tend to look at news outlets and there's always

1050
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 3: someone yelling at someone else, and you know, you say, oh,

1051
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 3: this restaurant opened, this treat me. That's less divisive, but

1052
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: it's helpful, right, And studies have shown when people in

1053
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 3: the act with the local news, they are most civically

1054
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 3: engaged and civic minded and stuff like that, and as.

1055
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: Well, and then there's the other stories that, uh, local news.

1056
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: Deserts pay more than taxes, so you know, you know,

1057
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: there's a there's a fiscal Uh, there's a there's a

1058
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: there's fiscal health for people's personal bank accounts at Staycare anyway, yes,

1059
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: uh but it was a.

1060
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 3: Pleasure, Oh pleasures all mind, Chuck, I if I had

1061
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 3: this day with you, so thank.

1062
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: Well, let's celebrate Local News Day and I imagine most

1063
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: people in Minneapolis are very very well read city and community,

1064
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: but hopefully those that aren't aware will be more aware

1065
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: of coming all night.

1066
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thanks for all right starting h

1067
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 2: m hmmm mm hmm