Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, believe it or not. And
Speaker 2: this is stuff you should know. The Artsy edition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the uh, the O Canada or the Oak Canada Edition.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's a Well let me
Speaker 2: ask you this, had you heard of any of the
Speaker 2: members of the Group of Seven, we should probably just
Speaker 2: say Group of Seven is Canada's most famous art school.
Speaker 2: In that school like you go and Sydney classroom and learn,
Speaker 2: but like a group of painters who work together, influence
Speaker 2: one another, support one another, right.
Speaker 1: Like a school of fish, except a paint.
Speaker 2: Right, school of fish with paint brushes. Yeah, so like
Speaker 2: like this is these guys were working in the teens,
Speaker 2: nineteeneen's and nineteen twenties and they're still like the foundation
Speaker 2: of Canada's art right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. To answer you, I don't think I had, at
Speaker 1: least as far as name recognition, but I feel like
Speaker 1: I have seen some of these works of art before
Speaker 1: in my many museum visits.
Speaker 2: I didn't recognize any of them. But I have to say,
Speaker 2: at first, I'm not a big fan of like nineteen
Speaker 2: twenties thirties in particular esthetic. There's a lot of brown
Speaker 2: and yeah, just dark stuff. But I actually, just from
Speaker 2: researching this and looking at more and more of their paintings,
Speaker 2: I actually did become a fan of that school, but
Speaker 2: a couple of them in particular.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really like this stuff. It's not the kind
Speaker 1: of thing that personally I would like hang in my house,
Speaker 1: because that's just not my house aesthetic that we're cultivating.
Speaker 1: But I really enjoy these landscapes of the northern realm
Speaker 1: of Canada, which is where as you'll see shortly, they
Speaker 1: mainly concentrated on the sort of woodlands north of the
Speaker 1: major cities and to some criticism, kind of ignoring the
Speaker 1: beautiful coastlines of Canada.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even the central prairies too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was this pretty specific thing. Seven sometimes six,
Speaker 1: sometimes eight, sometimes ten, oh as many as ten.
Speaker 2: I think there was ten overall.
Speaker 1: Okay, that kind of came and went, some passed on,
Speaker 1: some were fringe members that they were like, you're really
Speaker 1: one of us, but maybe not an official group of
Speaker 1: seven zero woman, Yeah, and in her case for sure.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so let's let's dig into this, okay.
Speaker 2: So we said that the Group of seven kind of
Speaker 2: formed the foundation of Canada's artistic identity. And there's a
Speaker 2: number of reasons why, like really solid reasons why that
Speaker 2: go well beyond these these guys artistic abilities, which makes
Speaker 2: the whole thing that much more interesting if you ask me.
Speaker 2: But one of the reasons why is because they came
Speaker 2: together and started painting Canada's wilderness, in particular at a
Speaker 2: time when Canada was looking to develop its national identity,
Speaker 2: because it wasn't until eighteen sixty seven that Canada formed
Speaker 2: the Dominion of Canada with the Province of Canada which
Speaker 2: is now Ontario and Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick,
Speaker 2: and then I think of five years later they brought
Speaker 2: BC into the mix. But that's what rushed things about
Speaker 2: when they sing about marching to Bastille day aboard the
Speaker 2: Thailand Express.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And that's you know, they were trying, like
Speaker 1: you said, to form a national identity sort of d Angliz, Yeah,
Speaker 1: can get something you do in a kitchen, actually, right,
Speaker 1: d anglies And you know, in other words, shake off
Speaker 1: a bit of that Britishness that lingered on both, you know, politically, economically,
Speaker 1: and as we'll see are artistically. Their formal formation started
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty, but as you said, they were pretty
Speaker 1: well acquainted with each other in the nineteen tens and
Speaker 1: nineteen teens. Most of them were living in and around Toronto, Canada. Toronto, Canada,
Speaker 1: don't I get bagged on for saying that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Atlanta, USA.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. We're doing our best. Still. We love
Speaker 1: Canada and they love us, so they forgive us of
Speaker 1: these indiscretions.
Speaker 2: Most of them love us, for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of them don't. But you know, there's people
Speaker 1: everywhere that don't like us.
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that.
Speaker 1: Where are some places where everybody likes us?
Speaker 2: Germany?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Germans dooth tend to like us, huh.
Speaker 2: Australia. I don't think there's a single Australian that doesn't
Speaker 2: like us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. And there were a couple
Speaker 1: of key sort of employment places and institutions that kind
Speaker 1: of helped foster this cohesiveness. One was a design firm
Speaker 1: called the Grip because most of these, if not all
Speaker 1: of them, at some point worked for the Grip as
Speaker 1: commercial designers. And they had a manager there named Albert
Speaker 1: Robson that really or Robesen maybe, who helped sort of
Speaker 1: foster their outside art, not outsider art, different thing, but
Speaker 1: just saying like, hey, we love your design work, and
Speaker 1: you should also do this other stuff because all boats
Speaker 1: will rise. And then a place called the Arts and
Speaker 1: Letters Club, which was a private club, a social club
Speaker 1: for men and for artists in particular, so they would
Speaker 1: get together with other Canadian musicians and writers and actors there.
Speaker 1: They had patrons there that could they could get a
Speaker 1: little juice to help support themselves, right, And those two
Speaker 1: places were sort of the nuclei of which they spun around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there was actually a person who you could
Speaker 2: kind of point to as the nuclei of the group,
Speaker 2: in part because he was the oldest of them. Apparently
Speaker 2: he was a father figure to some of the younger ones.
Speaker 2: But his name was J. E. H. McDonald and he
Speaker 2: was originally born in the UK and he moved to
Speaker 2: Ontario when he was a teenager. And he was the
Speaker 2: first one to work at the Grip all the way
Speaker 2: back in eighteen ninety five. And by the time most
Speaker 2: of the other members of the group of seven got
Speaker 2: their jobs at the Grip, he was already head designer.
Speaker 2: One of the things that kind of differentiated him and
Speaker 2: made it not surprising but noteworthy and remarkable that he
Speaker 2: was kind of the center or the head of the
Speaker 2: group of seven is that part of being a member
Speaker 2: of the group of seven was getting out there in nature,
Speaker 2: in rugged country that was way far away from the cities,
Speaker 2: and really, you know, like most of the people in Canada,
Speaker 2: in the towns did not go north at that point,
Speaker 2: so it was a pretty kind of rebellious thing to do.
Speaker 1: And J. H.
Speaker 2: McDonald was always kind of frail. He was prone to
Speaker 2: falling ill very easily. So he didn't make it on
Speaker 2: all of these excursions. And yet he was doing as
Speaker 2: good a work because any of them, if not better
Speaker 2: in my opinion. In some cases, yeah.
Speaker 1: His stuff is pretty great. He was a trans and dentalist.
Speaker 1: Though he was he just got sick a lot, and
Speaker 1: as we'll see, he died fairly young. And he kept
Speaker 1: trying to tell everyone like, I really love this stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm not an indoor kid. I promise, I just can't
Speaker 1: go bushwhacking this weekend.
Speaker 2: We have one more thing about him too. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you saw this or not, But he had
Speaker 2: a painting called Missed Fantasy. Huh that appears in the
Speaker 2: shining in the background.
Speaker 1: Of which scene you know? Is it the famous office
Speaker 1: interview scene.
Speaker 2: It's in the fireplace room. Oh okay, and then I
Speaker 2: think it's also I think it also moves and is
Speaker 2: in like the main lobby where mister Olman is giving
Speaker 2: Jack like the beginning of the tour.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so one of those from that documentary that probably
Speaker 1: means something very significant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that painting's moving around. That's where I learned about
Speaker 2: it from. I screamed two three seven and that's eye
Speaker 2: screen two three seven dot com, which, Man, if you
Speaker 2: want a deep dive into just Missed Fantasy and what
Speaker 2: it means, just start there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay. There was another guy named and these are we're
Speaker 1: going to kind of jump around as far as introducing
Speaker 1: these people, or I guess it's not jumping around because
Speaker 1: it's fairly chronological, okay, but these are sort of the
Speaker 1: pre dudes before it was official McDonald's. One was a
Speaker 1: guy named Tom Thompson. He passed away before the group
Speaker 1: was officially founded in nineteen seventeen. It was founded in
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty. Like I said, so he was never an
Speaker 1: official member, but he was a really influential guy in
Speaker 1: that he was a one of just a few Native Canadians.
Speaker 1: He was born. I believe he was born in Ontario,
Speaker 1: in rural Ontario. Big time outdoorsman also worked at the
Speaker 1: Grip in nineteen oh eight. I don't think I mentioned
Speaker 1: I mentioned they were designed for him, but they mainly
Speaker 1: worked on designed for department stores, so I guess early
Speaker 1: Canadian department stores. And it was at the firm where
Speaker 1: he met McDonald and they were like, hey, we should
Speaker 1: like get together and start going out in the woods
Speaker 1: and sketching and painting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So apparently Tom Thompson. So he's one of Canada's
Speaker 2: most famous artists by far. He must have been inherently
Speaker 2: likable because I read that he hung around the Arts
Speaker 2: and Letters Club even though he wasn't a member. They
Speaker 2: didn't check him out. All of the members who met
Speaker 2: him of the Group of seven took him under their
Speaker 2: wing because he was a really talented artist but didn't
Speaker 2: have any formal training. So he introduced the Group of
Speaker 2: seven to the wilderness that became like the basis of
Speaker 2: all of their paintings and their whole school and they
Speaker 2: taught him in turn formal techniques.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he actually is well. See he died young
Speaker 2: at thirty nine, and his career was very short. It
Speaker 2: was five years. But in that five years he painted
Speaker 2: fifty canvases and left behind four hundred sketches and he
Speaker 2: got really good and sadly he died just as he
Speaker 2: was really starting to get going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that was definitely a sad thing because
Speaker 1: he was just getting cooking. I feel like, yep, for sure,
Speaker 1: there's got him Lauren Harris law r e n. He
Speaker 1: may be the second. I mean, I don't want to
Speaker 1: judge how famous they are, but he seemed to be
Speaker 1: pretty famous. He notably, I think, has sold at auction
Speaker 1: the most valuable painting ever from a Canadian artist, at
Speaker 1: eleven million bucks. It was called Mountain Forms, And I
Speaker 1: like the painting. It looks quite a bit different, I
Speaker 1: think than a lot of this other stuff as far
Speaker 1: as steering away from like a Van go like post
Speaker 1: impressionistic look. It looks a little more graphic designing. But
Speaker 1: it's super cool. But you know, eleven million bucks. I
Speaker 1: know Steve Martin's a big fan, yes, because he went
Speaker 1: to some show of his ia on YouTube and was
Speaker 1: kind of going on about his love for Harris.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he mounted a touring exhibition back in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 2: Like he's a big Superquan and one of the others.
Speaker 2: And Harris is a really good example of this. A
Speaker 2: lot of people consider Lauren Harris the first abstract painter
Speaker 2: in Canada, and you can kind of make a pretty
Speaker 2: good example that the Group of Seven represents the transition
Speaker 2: from traditional painting to modern painting. They're the kind of
Speaker 2: portal that it goes through in Canada, and it's really
Speaker 2: neat to see their early work before they all kind
Speaker 2: of came together, and then to see starting about nineteen nineteen,
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty, all of them start to kind of resemble
Speaker 2: one another, even though it's very distinct and different, you
Speaker 2: can see that kind of through line that really did
Speaker 2: make them like a cohesive school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of the point.
Speaker 1: I don't even think that stuff is necessarily done on purpose.
Speaker 1: I think similar sensibilities hanging out with each.
Speaker 2: Other, ripping each other off, ripping each other.
Speaker 1: Going to place, you know, the same places you know,
Speaker 1: as we'll see that went on these excursions, and this guy,
Speaker 1: he was one of the more adventurous ones. He went
Speaker 1: as far as the Arctic to paint, you know, in
Speaker 1: the colder climbs, including that eleven million dollar work as
Speaker 1: a snowcap mountain. But he was a rich kid. He
Speaker 1: was even though he was born in Ontario. He was
Speaker 1: the heir to a British fortune from the Massy Harris
Speaker 1: company that made agricultural equipment, so they're still around. He
Speaker 1: didn't have to you know, there's no other way to
Speaker 1: say it. He didn't really have to work to support
Speaker 1: himself as an artist, so he was very free to
Speaker 1: do his thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was a very dedicated artist too, so
Speaker 2: he wasn't just like I don't feel like doing anything today.
Speaker 1: He was for some days.
Speaker 2: He was also heavy into spiritualism, which was pretty predominant
Speaker 2: at the time. Remember, Yeah, we did a whole episode
Speaker 2: on that. And so if you put together McDonald's transcendentalism,
Speaker 2: Tom Thompson's Exposure of Everybody to the woods Canadian forests,
Speaker 2: and then Lauren Harris's non spirit or non religious spiritualism,
Speaker 2: those kind of form like that. Ethosthys I can remember
Speaker 2: which one it is. I remember one time I said
Speaker 2: ethos and we were on a zoom call with Scott
Speaker 2: Ackerman and he just kind of said, almost to himself, like, wow,
Speaker 2: you got both vowels wrong.
Speaker 1: Did he really?
Speaker 2: Yeah? He did in no way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the kind of thing that sticks.
Speaker 2: With you for sure. I'll never forget it. But I
Speaker 2: still don't remember which way to say it.
Speaker 1: I thought it was always ethos, So according to Scott Ackerman,
Speaker 1: it would be ethos, ethos ethos. Yeah, but if you
Speaker 1: said ethos, you didn't get both wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so I said no ethos I think is yeah. Wow, Okay,
Speaker 2: I think that was it. Regardless, I still don't say
Speaker 2: it right, I'm sure, and if I do, it's accidental.
Speaker 2: People know what I'm saying exactly. Yeah, you're Josh Clark.
Speaker 2: We're known for mispronouncing. We really are.
Speaker 1: So before they got together as a group again, which
Speaker 1: was nineteen twenty, they took a pretty formidable trip in
Speaker 1: May of nineteen twelve, when Thompson and another staff member
Speaker 1: at the GRIP named Harry B. Jackson took this train
Speaker 1: from Toronto to the Algonquin Provincial Park, or to Algonquin
Speaker 1: Provincial Park. There's no d there and they just started sketching. Again.
Speaker 1: Like you said, at the time, you know, you had
Speaker 1: to be pretty adventurous to start venturing into those wild climbs.
Speaker 1: It was rough and rugged territory. So certainly there probably
Speaker 1: were not a lot of artists doing that. I mean
Speaker 1: there were There's have always been Canadian men and women
Speaker 1: who were like, yeah, I'm very comfortable out there and
Speaker 1: it doesn't scare me. But I think artists to be
Speaker 1: going out there was a pretty radical thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, these guys are They were rebels
Speaker 2: in their time. You just got to kind of remember that,
Speaker 2: even though retrospectively now you're like, what's a big deal,
Speaker 2: But yeah, at the time, this is all very new.
Speaker 2: It was very big and also, as we'll see, they
Speaker 2: were basically making like in your face style of art
Speaker 2: that just was not the taste of Canada at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they spent a lot of time in that park,
Speaker 1: and specifically Thompson at a certain point he was spending
Speaker 1: you know, eight months out of the year there. He
Speaker 1: left in the winter finally because it was pretty rough,
Speaker 1: but he really really loved Algonquin Provincial Park, and I
Speaker 1: think they even like the media initially started calling them
Speaker 1: the Algonquin School before they settled on a name, and
Speaker 1: some really beautiful paintings came out of that pre nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty formation.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The jack Pine is a very very famous painting
Speaker 2: in Canada that was by Tom Thompson, I think from
Speaker 2: nineteen sixteen. It's basically when he started it. But you
Speaker 2: can really clearly see the Art Nouveau influence that he
Speaker 2: developed as a commercial graphic designer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another one is a Y Jackson's The Red Maple. I
Speaker 2: like A Y Jackson's work, but I don't like the
Speaker 2: Red Maple, but it's about equally famous as the jack
Speaker 2: Pine in Canada.
Speaker 1: I like that one too, Again, not for my house,
Speaker 1: but I would dive into it in a museum with Gusto.
Speaker 2: They would not like that. The security guards would be
Speaker 2: on you, like white on rice.
Speaker 1: Oh. Sometimes I just want to touch those Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't do it. It's like the call of
Speaker 2: the void.
Speaker 1: It is a call of the void. Or yeah, I
Speaker 1: could either touch the painting in the Guggenheim or pull
Speaker 1: the gun out of the cops holder to his security
Speaker 1: at the Guggenheim.
Speaker 2: So one of the things that these guys did too
Speaker 2: that was pretty smart is they got out there in
Speaker 2: the wilderness. But it's not like they set up their
Speaker 2: easels and were just sitting there painting the final paintings
Speaker 2: that they showed to the public. They would do kind
Speaker 2: of sketches. Tom Thompson was apparently very good and prolific
Speaker 2: at it. I saw that he captured transient moments of
Speaker 2: light and atmosphere by making these sketches out in the
Speaker 2: actual like seeing the actual thing and then just kind
Speaker 2: of bringing it back and translating that into the actual
Speaker 2: finished canvas. And all of them basically did that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: something about Tom Thompson's eye being translated to color and
Speaker 2: texture in his paintings was really it was really something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. One of my favorite things now. And
Speaker 1: I've noticed this because did I tell you Emily started painting.
Speaker 2: No, how awesome what medium.
Speaker 1: Paint on canvas? Oil? Mainly? Oh wow, she dabbled in
Speaker 1: watercolor a little bit, but she's mainly painting oil on canvas,
Speaker 1: And like she's good, and it's it's sort of like
Speaker 1: surprising and annoying. It's like, oh, okay, so you can
Speaker 1: actually paint. That's that's super cool. Yeah, but it's she
Speaker 1: started to you know, now they make these little travel
Speaker 1: kits that or you can do your own in like
Speaker 1: an Altoy ten of you know, very small little paint
Speaker 1: sets that can like fit inside of a notebook, and
Speaker 1: she takes them along and we'll just paint little things
Speaker 1: or sketch little things and in nature, because that's mainly
Speaker 1: what she's painting. And we went on this last trip
Speaker 1: when we went to New York to see Guling Gary
Speaker 1: Glenn Ross, which was awesome. By the way, we went
Speaker 1: to the New York Botanical Gardens for the first time
Speaker 1: in the Bronx we had been to Brooklyn's and I
Speaker 1: noticed there were artists just everywhere, sitting on benches, sketching
Speaker 1: and painting stuff around them, and it's it's just such
Speaker 1: a lovely thing to witness because it's just so quiet
Speaker 1: and peaceful, and they're creating art inside of, you know,
Speaker 1: the natural wonder of nature's art, and I just I
Speaker 1: just love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I envy that. I admire it too. I've always
Speaker 2: wanted to be able to at least draw too. I mean,
Speaker 2: can't do any kid. I was friends with like artists
Speaker 2: that could draw like real like it was. They were
Speaker 2: just natural talents at it, and I would just try, try,
Speaker 2: try and take classes and I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't either. My whole family. My father wasn't, but
Speaker 1: my mother is an artist and an art major and
Speaker 1: a painter. My brother could always draw. I believe my
Speaker 1: sister could draw, and I can't draw a stick figure.
Speaker 2: That's all right? Yeah, I was gonna say, anybody who's
Speaker 2: seen my drawing of a horse on Instagram knows that
Speaker 2: I can.
Speaker 1: That was better than what I could do, I think.
Speaker 2: Oh. Also, by the way, if Emily's making art kits
Speaker 2: out of Altoyd tins, that makes her a Tentovator.
Speaker 1: Chuck, Well, she's not doing that. She bought a kit,
Speaker 1: but from a Tivator. I will not be a Tnovator
Speaker 1: because of that episode. Can we just get that one off?
Speaker 1: Can we scrub that?
Speaker 2: I'm sure we can. Should we also do scuba cat? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Those are two that really should go away?
Speaker 2: So yeah, well we'll look into that. We'll have to
Speaker 2: ask Jerry.
Speaker 1: Should we take a break?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess we should. We kind of got
Speaker 2: away from ourselves, so.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break. We're gonna ask Jerry
Speaker 1: if we can scrub a couple of episodes. That means
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to do two more at the end
Speaker 1: of our career. Of course, that's fine, because we don't
Speaker 1: want to short change ourselves. So we'll debate all that
Speaker 1: and then we'll be back to talk more about the
Speaker 1: Group of Seven.
Speaker 2: So I think, with the exception chuck of Tom Thompson,
Speaker 2: all of the rest of the Group of seven artists,
Speaker 2: all of them over the years, even went and studied
Speaker 2: in Europe at some point or another. They were formally trained.
Speaker 2: I read that Lauren Harris was encouraged by his math
Speaker 2: professor to study art in Berlin. Now I'm guessing then
Speaker 2: that he wasn't very good at math. Right, you like
Speaker 2: to draw, you play the piano, and I think, can
Speaker 2: you do anything? Yeah. But when they were trained in Europe,
Speaker 2: this is the time of the Impressionists. They were trained
Speaker 2: in traditional conservative landscapes, and they brought all that back.
Speaker 2: But they found, to their dismay that they were having
Speaker 2: a really hard time translating the European techniques that they
Speaker 2: had learned to the Canadian wilderness. It just wasn't working
Speaker 2: quite right. And there was a really big, important turning
Speaker 2: point that happened in nineteen twelve when Lauren Harris and j. E. H.
Speaker 2: MacDonald traveled to Buffalo, New York to see an art
Speaker 2: exhibition of Scandinavian artists and they were just blown away.
Speaker 2: It completely freed them to create the art that went
Speaker 2: on to become synonymous with them. And I saw that.
Speaker 2: I think McDonald said that these were artists that were
Speaker 2: not trying to express themselves so much as they were
Speaker 2: trying to express something that took hold of themselves.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So these guys were like overwhelmed with nature and
Speaker 2: they were painting the feeling that nature brought out in them.
Speaker 2: And that's what the group of seven started doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool. I know. Van Go is another inspiration,
Speaker 1: in particular from the European school, and that a technique
Speaker 1: that I really love, the imposto technique where you just
Speaker 1: goop that paint on there so you see the brushstrokes,
Speaker 1: and in the case of some of these artists and
Speaker 1: Mango and of course many others, it's you know, when
Speaker 1: you get up close to these paintings, don't touch, but
Speaker 1: you can lean in and get a really good look
Speaker 1: at just how caked on it is in some places.
Speaker 1: I just really really love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you're really sly, you can kind of
Speaker 2: touch it with the tip of your nose and just
Speaker 2: be like, oops, I got too close. Yeah, sorry, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that Jack Pine Thompson's Jackpine. If you look at the
Speaker 2: sky or the lake, you can really see his use
Speaker 2: of that. It's really it's a really cool painting. I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna say it again.
Speaker 1: Agreed. Another. You know something I've learned a lot more
Speaker 1: having known an artist in my adulthood is that a
Speaker 1: big part of doing your art is just having a
Speaker 1: space to do it. Not everyone can just set up
Speaker 1: in their dining room or whatever, and so studio space
Speaker 1: is cherished and not. It's sometimes hard to come by,
Speaker 1: sometimes too expensive, and so patrons are very important in
Speaker 1: that regards. And there was a guy named doctor James
Speaker 1: McCallum who built a building along with Harris, I think
Speaker 1: funded by James McCollum. It's called the Studio Building in
Speaker 1: the Rosedale neighborhood of Toronto, and that was a real
Speaker 1: sort of cohesion cohesive thing. Cohesion unit, is that a
Speaker 1: thing yeah, like a rank leader. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: two units of cohesion when they built that building.
Speaker 2: For sure, which is not there anymore. Unfortunately, I think
Speaker 2: they built a high rise apartment over it. They tore
Speaker 2: it down first and then built the high rise apartment.
Speaker 2: But during the time, I think, well into the fifties,
Speaker 2: this was still a thriving artist studio and it was
Speaker 2: cheap apartments as well. I saw that Tom Thompson was
Speaker 2: so broke that he couldn't even afford the subsidized rent
Speaker 2: for the artists apartment at the at the studio. So
Speaker 2: again he was so likable. James McCallum built him a
Speaker 2: shed out back and charged him a dollar a month
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they would you know, Canadians are known for
Speaker 1: being nice, but they would bag on them. They'd say, man,
Speaker 1: you're so broke you can't pay attention.
Speaker 2: That's a good one.
Speaker 1: And then they all started coming up with it, you know,
Speaker 1: you're so broken joke.
Speaker 2: How have I made it almost forty nine years without
Speaker 2: having heard that one?
Speaker 1: Have you not heard that one? No, that's the only
Speaker 1: broke one I know. But yeah, I introduced Ruby that
Speaker 1: whole that. You know, those kind of jokes it burns
Speaker 1: your mama jokes and stuff that, you know, playground burns.
Speaker 1: It's pretty fun, for sure. Your mama is so old
Speaker 1: she owes Jesus and Nickel. Wow, did you ever hear
Speaker 1: that one?
Speaker 2: No? Wow, I really wasn't paying attention on the playground.
Speaker 1: Apparently I couldn't make these up. Of course, I was
Speaker 1: just trying to copy the great artists of the playground.
Speaker 2: For sure. But I mean I still haven't heard them.
Speaker 2: And you say them just beautifully.
Speaker 1: I appreciate. I got a lot more. I'll trot them
Speaker 1: out here and there.
Speaker 2: Moving forward, kid, kid, So we talked about Tom Thompson
Speaker 2: dying and this is a really big deal, right it was.
Speaker 1: Another big deal was World War One? Oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: came along, and you know, was a big disruption because
Speaker 1: a lot of it certainly delayed the formation, the official
Speaker 1: formation of the group right there in the late nineteen teens.
Speaker 1: But a lot of them actually served in the war
Speaker 1: in some capacity. A lot of them worked for the
Speaker 1: Canadian War Memorials Fund, and they were producing art about
Speaker 1: the war, some of which was super cool. I don't
Speaker 1: know if we should talk about it now or later,
Speaker 1: but the well, maybe let's hang onto that. Okay, put
Speaker 1: a dazzle camouflage. Yeah, Arthur Listmer stuff. But yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: hold on to that.
Speaker 2: It is cool. So yeah. One of the things that
Speaker 2: I think also cemented Tom Thompson's reputation as one of
Speaker 2: Canada's most famous artists is that he died under what
Speaker 2: some people consider mysterious causes. Like this guy was born
Speaker 2: in rural Ontario. He was an avid outdoorsman. He spent
Speaker 2: so much time up in the Canada, the Canadian forests
Speaker 2: I guess around Algonquin or Algoma, that he would be
Speaker 2: a fishing guide. Sometimes he served as a park ranger.
Speaker 2: He was just there so he might as well do
Speaker 2: that extra stuff. And he went out one day in
Speaker 2: a canoe and his canoe was found overturned later that
Speaker 2: day or the next day, and he was missing. His
Speaker 2: body was found I think eight days later, and he
Speaker 2: had like a bump and a bruise on the side
Speaker 2: of his face. And some people are like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: he just stood up in the canoe and like fell
Speaker 2: out and like hit his head and then drowned. And
Speaker 2: other people are like, you didn't know Tom Thompson then,
Speaker 2: because number one, he would never do something that stupid
Speaker 2: and number two see number one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's hard to tell how fishy that
Speaker 1: might have been. It very well could have been an accident,
Speaker 1: but it's also very easy to say, like an experience
Speaker 1: outdoorsment like that wouldn't have died that way, But it
Speaker 1: was officially declared an accidental drowning. Some people theorize that
Speaker 1: he may have killed himself if he wasn't murdered, because
Speaker 1: he got his girlfriend pregnant, But I couldn't really see
Speaker 1: a lot of like solid evidence other than just people surmising.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was like one or two people over the
Speaker 2: years who wrote a book or something like that and
Speaker 2: kept the whole thing alive. Yeah, but it was a
Speaker 2: really big deal to the group of seven. They hadn't
Speaker 2: even formed yet, and they lost to one of their
Speaker 2: members already, and this was the guy who introduced them
Speaker 2: to the wild. He was in inpherently likable guy. They
Speaker 2: were really bummed out about it, but they still carried on,
Speaker 2: you know, I think, at least in part out of
Speaker 2: tribute to Tom Thompson, but also because they had really
Speaker 2: come to appreciate what he introduced them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. That also led to another sort
Speaker 1: of if not tragedy like setback when McDonald was helping
Speaker 1: to build a memorial cairn at the at Canoe Lake
Speaker 1: where he died and McDonald collapsed because you know, as
Speaker 1: we said, he was a pretty frail guy. May have
Speaker 1: had a stroke, but recovered within a few months, well
Speaker 1: enough at least that he was able to go on
Speaker 1: this painting trip you mentioned Algoma in Ontario. They went there.
Speaker 1: Frank Johnston, who was he would be another one of
Speaker 1: the ogs as far as the group members go, and
Speaker 1: doctor McCollum, who funded that studio, they all went along
Speaker 1: on this trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they went on box car journeys because Laurence
Speaker 2: so cool. Yeah, Laurence Harris was so rich. He went
Speaker 2: to one of the railroads and said, hey, give us
Speaker 2: a box car, will you, And they said, sure, mister Harris,
Speaker 2: whatever you want. So they took a box car and
Speaker 2: outfitted it, refurbished it with to basically turn it into
Speaker 2: a traveling studio and arts quarters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like super cool. I mean that had
Speaker 1: a stove that had furniture and they could move it
Speaker 1: around to the different rail sidings and hang out and stay.
Speaker 1: Then had a little home base there with some warm
Speaker 1: some warmth warmth to it, sure, And the Wild River
Speaker 1: was painted there, which is one of McDonald's biggest, most
Speaker 1: popular paintings, and that was in nineteen nineteen, and it
Speaker 1: is very gorgeous as well.
Speaker 2: It is I don't remember that one. I had so
Speaker 2: many tabs open and looked at so much heart that
Speaker 2: I couldn't remember that. But I don't think there was
Speaker 2: many paintings that I was like, oh, that's a real dog.
Speaker 1: Right, except for that one painting of the dog, the
Speaker 1: real one.
Speaker 2: So by this time nineteen nineteen's rolling around, they've been
Speaker 2: on box car journeys, they've lost Tom Thompson, they've gone
Speaker 2: out in the wild a few times. They've really kind
Speaker 2: of gotten into this new modernist interpretation of landscapes, specifically
Speaker 2: Canadian landscapes, to basically create this new art identity of Canada.
Speaker 2: It's like a nationalistic art movement. And they mounted their
Speaker 2: first exhibition from at least one or more of those
Speaker 2: box car journeys, and I think there was something like
Speaker 2: two hundred canvases and it did not go over all
Speaker 2: that well.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I mean there were some critics who didn't
Speaker 1: love it. Some people did like it, but that was
Speaker 1: just a key exhibition because it was their first one
Speaker 1: as a group. And that was when and this is
Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen. That's when within the group they were like,
Speaker 1: you know, we should official, like call ourselves a school
Speaker 1: and form an official like the Avengers. We need to
Speaker 1: get together and be an official group because it'll probably
Speaker 1: just help our reputation, get us a little more press. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in February March of nineteen twenty, they did. So. Jackson
Speaker 1: was not there. He was on one of his sketching
Speaker 1: trips at the time, and he came home and said
Speaker 1: that he learned that it had been formed and that
Speaker 1: I was a member.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't met Jackson yet. This is a different
Speaker 2: Jackson than the one that went on that first trip
Speaker 2: with Tom Thompson. This was a Jackson.
Speaker 1: Well we introduced him, Oh we did.
Speaker 2: I didn't remember that.
Speaker 1: Because I almost made the joke that did they call him.
Speaker 2: A yeah A but I didn't like the funds.
Speaker 1: Yeah a y Jackson who actually he lived I think
Speaker 1: the longest. Yeah, he lived all the way until nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy four, ripe old age. He was born in Montreal,
Speaker 1: had a single mom, with six or five other siblings
Speaker 1: total six and as a result he had to work
Speaker 1: a lot to support his family. But eventually he found
Speaker 1: his way to Europe, where he was one of the ones,
Speaker 1: like you said, that studied like formally in Europe, which
Speaker 1: he did in France before he moved back to Ontario
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thanks to doctor James McCollum, he was able
Speaker 2: to move to Toronto because he was not very well
Speaker 2: off at the time, and McCollum said, how about this,
Speaker 2: I will buy all of your paintings that you produce
Speaker 2: in a year to keep you afloat essentially, and that
Speaker 2: gave A. Y Jackson the ability to come to Toronto,
Speaker 2: start working six hundred things right and make a name
Speaker 2: for himself in time to be able to support himself
Speaker 2: through his art.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he had that Montreal connection, so he sort
Speaker 1: of Montreal artists would he'd make connections with the Group
Speaker 1: of seven again, you know, artists knowing each other and
Speaker 1: sharing ideas and just sensibilities ethos if you will is
Speaker 1: a good thing. But he was one of the ones
Speaker 1: that went over with World War One to fight. He
Speaker 1: was actually wounded there and also painted for War memorials.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another guy who painted for Canadian War memorials that
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier was Arthur Lismer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was famous for painting warships that were returning to
Speaker 2: port that had dazzle camouflage on them, which essentially is
Speaker 2: like op art painted on warships. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had never heard of this before he do you No, huh,
Speaker 1: it's super cool. It's a way for It's not you know,
Speaker 1: camouflage in the way that it's supposed to blend in
Speaker 1: with the sea around it. In fact, far from it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't do anything like that, right, Like you said,
Speaker 1: it looks like cool pop art, you know, painted on
Speaker 1: a warship like could It almost looks like some weird
Speaker 1: art installation and not a real thing that the Navy did.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: But the intention there, again is not to like conceal
Speaker 1: it like it's not there, but to confuse and mislead
Speaker 1: about like the course heading or something up like that,
Speaker 1: or like how fast they're going or yeah, like I said,
Speaker 1: where they're headed, And apparently it worked pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They look like disjointed zebra stripes that there are
Speaker 2: in different chunks that don't line up with one another.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's on the actual ship, and he painted
Speaker 1: paintings of these ships and they're really cool looking. I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Arthur Lismer is one of those painters whose
Speaker 2: style seemingly changed overnight around nineteen twenty and really falls
Speaker 2: into line with the rest of the group. So it's
Speaker 2: pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we'll go with the last three. Here.
Speaker 1: We have Frederick Varley, who lived till nineteen sixty nine,
Speaker 1: so I think he was the second longest. He was
Speaker 1: a schoolmate of Lismers in England, and I think we
Speaker 1: didn't mention that they both studied in Antwerp, Belgium, and
Speaker 1: then he reconnected with Lismer after living in Yorkshire and
Speaker 1: getting married, and he was like Listmer's like, come on
Speaker 1: over to Canada, man, and he did so in nineteen twelve,
Speaker 1: went to work at the Grip like a lot of them,
Speaker 1: and also painted for the war memorials.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was actually embedded in Europe with the Canadian military,
Speaker 2: so a lot of his paintings that he made during
Speaker 2: the war were like bombed out villages or I read
Speaker 2: that he's one of his paintings was a shelled cemetery.
Speaker 2: To basically say, like even the dead can escape war.
Speaker 2: It's some harrowing stuff that he produced, for sure, and
Speaker 2: he was very affected by the war. I should say, yeah,
Speaker 2: to answer your question, who else we have is my
Speaker 2: favorite by far of the group, Frankie, Franklin Carmichael. And
Speaker 2: you were saying you wouldn't hang any of these in
Speaker 2: your home. I would hang at Carmichael basically any of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, actually, and that that's some of my
Speaker 1: favorite stuff too, And I might I might hang some
Speaker 1: of the other stuff, mambe I was being too harsh.
Speaker 2: Hang it all. So he had kind of a more
Speaker 2: decorative sensibility. I saw it described as he used more colorful,
Speaker 2: softer colors. Its like just go look up Franklin Carmichael
Speaker 2: art and you will just sit there and watch it
Speaker 2: all day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did more water colors than the rest of them,
Speaker 1: but did work in other medium And then rounding out,
Speaker 1: we have Frank Johnston born in Toronto, so another one
Speaker 1: of Canadians sons, and he worked at the Grip as well,
Speaker 1: and he's I think the only one that actually studied
Speaker 1: in the United States. He went there for a little while,
Speaker 1: studied there, did some work there, and then went back
Speaker 1: to Toronto in nineteen fifteen, and he was known for his
Speaker 1: opaque watercolor techniques, so he was kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: watercolors quicker, so he was pumping out paintings much quicker
Speaker 1: than the rest of these guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw he contributed sixty of the two hundred
Speaker 2: canvases that were at that first show.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: He also this is so artist. He was born Francis
Speaker 2: Hans Johnston, and later on in life he compressed that
Speaker 2: to Franz.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Hans and Franz.
Speaker 2: Pretty cool. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Maybe we should take another break, yes, and we'll be
Speaker 1: back with mart Art. All right. So we've talked about
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty and what happened over and over again. But
Speaker 1: finally on May seventh is when the official Unified School
Speaker 1: opened at the Art Gallery of Toronto with one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty paintings. And this is like definitely when the
Speaker 1: critics kind of some of them poo pooed it. One
Speaker 1: described some of the paintings as looking like the contents
Speaker 1: of a drunkard's stomach. And I think this was maybe
Speaker 1: more just because it was a departure from the traditional art.
Speaker 1: They got popular pretty quickly. I think their second show
Speaker 1: in May of twenty one drew about twenty five hundred
Speaker 1: people over just three weeks in change. So people got
Speaker 1: on board pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Again because in part this is that
Speaker 2: they were painting Canada's national identity. That's right. One of
Speaker 2: the other things. I don't know if I've made that
Speaker 2: point yet.
Speaker 1: I think a few more times that might get at home.
Speaker 2: One of the other things that was really big about
Speaker 2: this this show was that the director of the National
Speaker 2: Gallery of all of Canada bought at least three of
Speaker 2: their works. His name was Eric Brown, and in addition
Speaker 2: to basically ensconsing them in Canada's National Gallery saying like
Speaker 2: these guys are legit, this is the real deal, he
Speaker 2: put them in other exhibitions that Canada put on around
Speaker 2: the world. And he would really play a big role
Speaker 2: later on during World War one and two, as we'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he you know, he was a patron of
Speaker 1: the arts. He loved these guys, but he was also
Speaker 1: criticized at times later by just solely being into these
Speaker 1: guys and like, hey, you're not championing the work of
Speaker 1: women as much as you should, or are indigenous artists,
Speaker 1: So you know, he was criticized for that. That's all
Speaker 1: I'll say for sure.
Speaker 2: So the group is kind of like rolling by now
Speaker 2: they're doing more journeys. They're meeting once in a while
Speaker 2: to basically set up exhibitions. Franz Johnston leaves and they're like, well, God,
Speaker 2: where the group of seven? We need to get a seventh.
Speaker 2: They bring in a guy named aj Cassen, who used
Speaker 2: to be Franklin Carmichael's assistant. They're like, okay, let's just
Speaker 2: break the trend and bring in an eighth member. So
Speaker 2: they brought in a guy named Edwin Holgate. He was
Speaker 2: brought in in nineteen twenty nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a portraitist, which was a little different
Speaker 1: from the rest.
Speaker 2: Of them for sure. He had also formed another group
Speaker 2: in Montreal called the beaver Hall Group, which is a.
Speaker 1: Pretty good group name, Yeah, great name.
Speaker 2: And then Lemoyne Fitzgerald, who you could call the Jinks.
Speaker 2: He was brought on in nineteen thirty two. The group
Speaker 2: broke up in nineteen thirty three, So the Jinks missed
Speaker 2: their last exhibition in nineteen thirty one, and then he
Speaker 2: was there for their breakup the year after. He was
Speaker 2: brought on board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's too bad for Lemoyne, but he got a
Speaker 1: brief taste and then you know, he looked until nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty six, so he was still painting after that. We
Speaker 1: did mention a woman, Emily Carr near the beginning as like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a boys club, but she was
Speaker 1: never official officially Group of seven because of that, but
Speaker 1: they did feature her works in some of their shows,
Speaker 1: one in nineteen twenty seven in particular, and that's when
Speaker 1: they you know, they kind of pulled her aside and
Speaker 1: they were like, hey, you know, you're really you're one
Speaker 1: of us. Like it might not be official, but you're
Speaker 1: definitely one of us.
Speaker 2: But don't tell anybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, don't tell anyone. And she painted a lot
Speaker 1: of indigenous villages and stuff like that. Yeah, and at
Speaker 1: one point was doing indigenous art like hooked rugs and
Speaker 1: pottery and selling it to tourists. But yeah, she like
Speaker 1: even way back then, was like, wait a minute, maybe
Speaker 1: I'm appropriating this. They didn't use that word, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: but she stopped doing it. She was like, this is
Speaker 1: not a culture I'm a part of, so maybe I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing it and selling it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that lady was ahead of even MPR.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or what's Canada's version of NPR.
Speaker 2: CBC now, right, of course, So all good things must
Speaker 2: come to an end. And one of the things that
Speaker 2: I think you can give a nod to the Group
Speaker 2: of Seven about is they're like, Hey, this thing's run
Speaker 2: its course. Let's just disband. So they actually disbanded, They
Speaker 2: had a formal disbanding, I think again in nineteen thirty three.
Speaker 2: It was LeMoyne's fault. Again. Part of it was that
Speaker 2: McDonald had died in nineteen thirty two, and again he
Speaker 2: was kind of like the guy who was the original,
Speaker 2: the figurehead, I think, Papa Smurt. Yeah, that was part
Speaker 2: of it. They thought I had to run its course.
Speaker 2: But they were also now starting to get real pushback,
Speaker 2: not just them, but also the National Gallery and Eric
Speaker 2: Brown saying like, you know, there's other there's other artists
Speaker 2: in Canada. Can we kind of include them. There's other
Speaker 2: parts of Canada besides the northern Boreal forest. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: because of that they actually stepped back. They disbanded the
Speaker 2: Group of Seven and then they regrouped and expanded to
Speaker 2: the Canadian Group of Painters, which started out with twenty
Speaker 2: eight artists and eventually grew to sixty one total over
Speaker 2: the years, and this one included women.
Speaker 1: Yes, they expanded it greatly at that point. One of
Speaker 1: the reasons that you know, they're obviously famous because they
Speaker 1: were you know, Canadian through and through and what they
Speaker 1: were doing and where they were living in some of
Speaker 1: them where they were from. But they in World War two,
Speaker 1: the Canadian government got involved to do this silkscreen program
Speaker 1: where they silk green prints of this art and they
Speaker 1: put them up in their buildings and their government buildings
Speaker 1: and then put them up for sale. And Eric Brown
Speaker 1: was behind that as well, and that really just cemented
Speaker 1: them because all of a sudden people were like buying
Speaker 1: this stuff and putting it on their own walls as prints.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were in banks, they were in schools. Apparently
Speaker 2: Arthur Lismer, one of the original Group of seven, was
Speaker 2: in charge in part of selecting images. So, yeah, the
Speaker 2: Group of seven was disproportionately represented in this and that
Speaker 2: is one reason why they are so enmeshed in Canada's
Speaker 2: artistic psyche, Like this is Canadian art, this is the
Speaker 2: foundation of it. That's a big part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you could get it at the Spencer Gifts
Speaker 1: all of a sudden.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you could you could also make an argument
Speaker 2: that they were selected for this cheap silk screen reproduction
Speaker 2: because the colors, the bold colors, the shapes, the contours
Speaker 2: of the whole thing. They it was ripe for reproduction
Speaker 2: through screen printing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure it looked good on a screenprint. Emily
Speaker 1: Carr was not chosen. In fact, no women were chosen,
Speaker 1: and I think no artists that painted the coastlines of
Speaker 1: Canada were chosen, and no work by indigenous artists as well,
Speaker 1: or work that depicted their community. So again some controversy
Speaker 1: surrounding that stuff. Obviously, that kind of thing today would
Speaker 1: be handled a lot differently, but this was again back
Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen forties when they started the silk screening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was interesting that they were still criticized
Speaker 2: for that kind of stuff even back then. You know
Speaker 2: people were aware of it, for sure, Yeah, totally. But yeah,
Speaker 2: if you want to waste some time, well wasted, I
Speaker 2: should say, go check out the Group of seven dot
Speaker 2: CA and they have bios and like a lot of
Speaker 2: selected art or just look up these artists and type
Speaker 2: in artist name works, and just look at all the
Speaker 2: amazing stuff that comes up. It's good stuff. I'm glad
Speaker 2: you found this one or picked it, or it was suggested.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I think I had just heard of him, and Olivia
Speaker 1: helped us out. And I love learning more and more
Speaker 1: about art here later in life, me too. Chuck in
Speaker 1: my fifties.
Speaker 2: Well, since Chuck said he's in his fifties, of course,
Speaker 2: that means he's just unlocked. Listener mail, mid fifties.
Speaker 1: When are you fifty?
Speaker 2: I will be fifty the July after next, And I
Speaker 2: don't care because forties suck. Yeah, it's the worst decade
Speaker 2: so far at least. But I've heard it just gets
Speaker 2: better after your forties, that your life satisfaction dips in
Speaker 2: the forties and starts to climb back up and peaks
Speaker 2: again in your sixties, and that that is comparable to
Speaker 2: your younger years, the peak of happiness. So we have
Speaker 2: a lot to look forward to, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just get ready.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to be podcasting the whole time.
Speaker 1: That's right, all right, This is a positive correction about fentanyl.
Speaker 1: By the way, we got some props for just saying
Speaker 1: fentanyl not fentanyl all right. Josh noted, if you go
Speaker 1: to prison, you're expected to simply dry out and hopefully
Speaker 1: recover that way. That is not the case, Guys, I
Speaker 1: teach in a correctional play in Indiana. I'm happy to
Speaker 1: report that our prisons give incarcerated individuals or iii IS
Speaker 1: the option to take subox zone in a controlled environment
Speaker 1: at a certain time each day. The II and the
Speaker 1: program are sent to our medical department and given suboxone
Speaker 1: in order to help with their treatment. This has helped
Speaker 1: those who struggle with addiction, but it's important to note
Speaker 1: that it can be addictive, leading to potential abuse as well.
Speaker 1: Suboxone compared with recovery programs, has helped a lot of
Speaker 1: my students, and I found I've been very fortunate to
Speaker 1: see some people turn their lives around through this. And
Speaker 1: we heard from a couple of other correctional workers from
Speaker 1: different states that do the same thing, So it sounds
Speaker 1: like it's sort of the norm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's heartening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great to hear. Additionally, guys, I appreciate that
Speaker 1: you cleared up some misconceptions about fentanyl. I can confirm
Speaker 1: that those ideas still impact law enforcement, as our officers
Speaker 1: are required to wear gloves during cell searches in order
Speaker 1: to prevent absorbing fentanyl through the skin. Thanks for providing
Speaker 1: years of knowledge and relaxed and fund manner. Thanks for
Speaker 1: coming to Indianapolis. I was at the show and it
Speaker 1: was great.
Speaker 2: It was a good show.
Speaker 1: And that is from Samuel Adult Basic Education instructor.
Speaker 2: Thanks Samuel, you're out there doing God's work. Congratulations to
Speaker 2: you and thank you for it. And if you want
Speaker 2: to be like Samuel and gently correct us, we love
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. You can send it via email
Speaker 2: to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
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