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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, believe it or not. And

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Speaker 2: this is stuff you should know. The Artsy edition.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the uh, the O Canada or the Oak Canada Edition.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's a Well let me

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Speaker 2: ask you this, had you heard of any of the

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Speaker 2: members of the Group of Seven, we should probably just

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Speaker 2: say Group of Seven is Canada's most famous art school.

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Speaker 2: In that school like you go and Sydney classroom and learn,

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Speaker 2: but like a group of painters who work together, influence

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Speaker 2: one another, support one another, right.

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Speaker 1: Like a school of fish, except a paint.

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Speaker 2: Right, school of fish with paint brushes. Yeah, so like

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Speaker 2: like this is these guys were working in the teens,

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Speaker 2: nineteeneen's and nineteen twenties and they're still like the foundation

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Speaker 2: of Canada's art right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. To answer you, I don't think I had, at

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Speaker 1: least as far as name recognition, but I feel like

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Speaker 1: I have seen some of these works of art before

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Speaker 1: in my many museum visits.

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Speaker 2: I didn't recognize any of them. But I have to say,

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Speaker 2: at first, I'm not a big fan of like nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenties thirties in particular esthetic. There's a lot of brown

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Speaker 2: and yeah, just dark stuff. But I actually, just from

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Speaker 2: researching this and looking at more and more of their paintings,

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Speaker 2: I actually did become a fan of that school, but

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Speaker 2: a couple of them in particular.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I really like this stuff. It's not the kind

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Speaker 1: of thing that personally I would like hang in my house,

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Speaker 1: because that's just not my house aesthetic that we're cultivating.

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Speaker 1: But I really enjoy these landscapes of the northern realm

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Speaker 1: of Canada, which is where as you'll see shortly, they

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Speaker 1: mainly concentrated on the sort of woodlands north of the

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Speaker 1: major cities and to some criticism, kind of ignoring the

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Speaker 1: beautiful coastlines of Canada.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and even the central prairies too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was this pretty specific thing. Seven sometimes six,

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Speaker 1: sometimes eight, sometimes ten, oh as many as ten.

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Speaker 2: I think there was ten overall.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that kind of came and went, some passed on,

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Speaker 1: some were fringe members that they were like, you're really

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Speaker 1: one of us, but maybe not an official group of

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Speaker 1: seven zero woman, Yeah, and in her case for sure.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so let's let's dig into this, okay.

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Speaker 2: So we said that the Group of seven kind of

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Speaker 2: formed the foundation of Canada's artistic identity. And there's a

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Speaker 2: number of reasons why, like really solid reasons why that

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Speaker 2: go well beyond these these guys artistic abilities, which makes

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Speaker 2: the whole thing that much more interesting if you ask me.

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Speaker 2: But one of the reasons why is because they came

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Speaker 2: together and started painting Canada's wilderness, in particular at a

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Speaker 2: time when Canada was looking to develop its national identity,

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Speaker 2: because it wasn't until eighteen sixty seven that Canada formed

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Speaker 2: the Dominion of Canada with the Province of Canada which

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Speaker 2: is now Ontario and Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick,

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Speaker 2: and then I think of five years later they brought

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Speaker 2: BC into the mix. But that's what rushed things about

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Speaker 2: when they sing about marching to Bastille day aboard the

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Speaker 2: Thailand Express.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And that's you know, they were trying, like

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Speaker 1: you said, to form a national identity sort of d Angliz, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: can get something you do in a kitchen, actually, right,

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Speaker 1: d anglies And you know, in other words, shake off

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Speaker 1: a bit of that Britishness that lingered on both, you know, politically, economically,

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Speaker 1: and as we'll see are artistically. Their formal formation started

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Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty, but as you said, they were pretty

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Speaker 1: well acquainted with each other in the nineteen tens and

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Speaker 1: nineteen teens. Most of them were living in and around Toronto, Canada. Toronto, Canada,

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Speaker 1: don't I get bagged on for saying that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like Atlanta, USA.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. We're doing our best. Still. We love

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Speaker 1: Canada and they love us, so they forgive us of

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Speaker 1: these indiscretions.

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Speaker 2: Most of them love us, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, some of them don't. But you know, there's people

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Speaker 1: everywhere that don't like us.

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Speaker 2: I don't agree with that.

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Speaker 1: Where are some places where everybody likes us?

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Speaker 2: Germany?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Germans dooth tend to like us, huh.

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Speaker 2: Australia. I don't think there's a single Australian that doesn't

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Speaker 2: like us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. And there were a couple

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Speaker 1: of key sort of employment places and institutions that kind

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Speaker 1: of helped foster this cohesiveness. One was a design firm

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Speaker 1: called the Grip because most of these, if not all

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Speaker 1: of them, at some point worked for the Grip as

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Speaker 1: commercial designers. And they had a manager there named Albert

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Speaker 1: Robson that really or Robesen maybe, who helped sort of

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Speaker 1: foster their outside art, not outsider art, different thing, but

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Speaker 1: just saying like, hey, we love your design work, and

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Speaker 1: you should also do this other stuff because all boats

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Speaker 1: will rise. And then a place called the Arts and

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Speaker 1: Letters Club, which was a private club, a social club

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Speaker 1: for men and for artists in particular, so they would

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Speaker 1: get together with other Canadian musicians and writers and actors there.

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Speaker 1: They had patrons there that could they could get a

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Speaker 1: little juice to help support themselves, right, And those two

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Speaker 1: places were sort of the nuclei of which they spun around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there was actually a person who you could

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Speaker 2: kind of point to as the nuclei of the group,

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Speaker 2: in part because he was the oldest of them. Apparently

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Speaker 2: he was a father figure to some of the younger ones.

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Speaker 2: But his name was J. E. H. McDonald and he

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Speaker 2: was originally born in the UK and he moved to

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Speaker 2: Ontario when he was a teenager. And he was the

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Speaker 2: first one to work at the Grip all the way

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Speaker 2: back in eighteen ninety five. And by the time most

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Speaker 2: of the other members of the group of seven got

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Speaker 2: their jobs at the Grip, he was already head designer.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that kind of differentiated him and

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Speaker 2: made it not surprising but noteworthy and remarkable that he

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Speaker 2: was kind of the center or the head of the

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Speaker 2: group of seven is that part of being a member

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Speaker 2: of the group of seven was getting out there in nature,

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Speaker 2: in rugged country that was way far away from the cities,

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Speaker 2: and really, you know, like most of the people in Canada,

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Speaker 2: in the towns did not go north at that point,

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Speaker 2: so it was a pretty kind of rebellious thing to do.

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Speaker 1: And J. H.

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Speaker 2: McDonald was always kind of frail. He was prone to

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Speaker 2: falling ill very easily. So he didn't make it on

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Speaker 2: all of these excursions. And yet he was doing as

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Speaker 2: good a work because any of them, if not better

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Speaker 2: in my opinion. In some cases, yeah.

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Speaker 1: His stuff is pretty great. He was a trans and dentalist.

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Speaker 1: Though he was he just got sick a lot, and

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Speaker 1: as we'll see, he died fairly young. And he kept

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Speaker 1: trying to tell everyone like, I really love this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm not an indoor kid. I promise, I just can't

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Speaker 1: go bushwhacking this weekend.

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Speaker 2: We have one more thing about him too. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you saw this or not, But he had

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Speaker 2: a painting called Missed Fantasy. Huh that appears in the

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Speaker 2: shining in the background.

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Speaker 1: Of which scene you know? Is it the famous office

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Speaker 1: interview scene.

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Speaker 2: It's in the fireplace room. Oh okay, and then I

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Speaker 2: think it's also I think it also moves and is

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Speaker 2: in like the main lobby where mister Olman is giving

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Speaker 2: Jack like the beginning of the tour.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so one of those from that documentary that probably

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Speaker 1: means something very significant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that painting's moving around. That's where I learned about

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Speaker 2: it from. I screamed two three seven and that's eye

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Speaker 2: screen two three seven dot com, which, Man, if you

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Speaker 2: want a deep dive into just Missed Fantasy and what

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Speaker 2: it means, just start there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay. There was another guy named and these are we're

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Speaker 1: going to kind of jump around as far as introducing

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Speaker 1: these people, or I guess it's not jumping around because

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Speaker 1: it's fairly chronological, okay, but these are sort of the

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Speaker 1: pre dudes before it was official McDonald's. One was a

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Speaker 1: guy named Tom Thompson. He passed away before the group

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Speaker 1: was officially founded in nineteen seventeen. It was founded in

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty. Like I said, so he was never an

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Speaker 1: official member, but he was a really influential guy in

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Speaker 1: that he was a one of just a few Native Canadians.

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Speaker 1: He was born. I believe he was born in Ontario,

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Speaker 1: in rural Ontario. Big time outdoorsman also worked at the

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Speaker 1: Grip in nineteen oh eight. I don't think I mentioned

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Speaker 1: I mentioned they were designed for him, but they mainly

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Speaker 1: worked on designed for department stores, so I guess early

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Speaker 1: Canadian department stores. And it was at the firm where

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Speaker 1: he met McDonald and they were like, hey, we should

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Speaker 1: like get together and start going out in the woods

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Speaker 1: and sketching and painting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So apparently Tom Thompson. So he's one of Canada's

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Speaker 2: most famous artists by far. He must have been inherently

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Speaker 2: likable because I read that he hung around the Arts

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Speaker 2: and Letters Club even though he wasn't a member. They

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Speaker 2: didn't check him out. All of the members who met

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Speaker 2: him of the Group of seven took him under their

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Speaker 2: wing because he was a really talented artist but didn't

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Speaker 2: have any formal training. So he introduced the Group of

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Speaker 2: seven to the wilderness that became like the basis of

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Speaker 2: all of their paintings and their whole school and they

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Speaker 2: taught him in turn formal techniques.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he actually is well. See he died young

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Speaker 2: at thirty nine, and his career was very short. It

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Speaker 2: was five years. But in that five years he painted

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Speaker 2: fifty canvases and left behind four hundred sketches and he

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Speaker 2: got really good and sadly he died just as he

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Speaker 2: was really starting to get going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that was definitely a sad thing because

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Speaker 1: he was just getting cooking. I feel like, yep, for sure,

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Speaker 1: there's got him Lauren Harris law r e n. He

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Speaker 1: may be the second. I mean, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: judge how famous they are, but he seemed to be

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Speaker 1: pretty famous. He notably, I think, has sold at auction

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Speaker 1: the most valuable painting ever from a Canadian artist, at

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Speaker 1: eleven million bucks. It was called Mountain Forms, And I

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Speaker 1: like the painting. It looks quite a bit different, I

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Speaker 1: think than a lot of this other stuff as far

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Speaker 1: as steering away from like a Van go like post

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Speaker 1: impressionistic look. It looks a little more graphic designing. But

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Speaker 1: it's super cool. But you know, eleven million bucks. I

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Speaker 1: know Steve Martin's a big fan, yes, because he went

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Speaker 1: to some show of his ia on YouTube and was

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Speaker 1: kind of going on about his love for Harris.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he mounted a touring exhibition back in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: Like he's a big Superquan and one of the others.

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Speaker 2: And Harris is a really good example of this. A

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Speaker 2: lot of people consider Lauren Harris the first abstract painter

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Speaker 2: in Canada, and you can kind of make a pretty

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Speaker 2: good example that the Group of Seven represents the transition

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Speaker 2: from traditional painting to modern painting. They're the kind of

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Speaker 2: portal that it goes through in Canada, and it's really

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Speaker 2: neat to see their early work before they all kind

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Speaker 2: of came together, and then to see starting about nineteen nineteen,

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Speaker 2: nineteen twenty, all of them start to kind of resemble

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Speaker 2: one another, even though it's very distinct and different, you

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Speaker 2: can see that kind of through line that really did

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Speaker 2: make them like a cohesive school.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of the point.

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Speaker 1: I don't even think that stuff is necessarily done on purpose.

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Speaker 1: I think similar sensibilities hanging out with each.

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Speaker 2: Other, ripping each other off, ripping each other.

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Speaker 1: Going to place, you know, the same places you know,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see that went on these excursions, and this guy,

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Speaker 1: he was one of the more adventurous ones. He went

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Speaker 1: as far as the Arctic to paint, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the colder climbs, including that eleven million dollar work as

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Speaker 1: a snowcap mountain. But he was a rich kid. He

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Speaker 1: was even though he was born in Ontario. He was

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Speaker 1: the heir to a British fortune from the Massy Harris

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Speaker 1: company that made agricultural equipment, so they're still around. He

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Speaker 1: didn't have to you know, there's no other way to

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Speaker 1: say it. He didn't really have to work to support

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Speaker 1: himself as an artist, so he was very free to

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Speaker 1: do his thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was a very dedicated artist too, so

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Speaker 2: he wasn't just like I don't feel like doing anything today.

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Speaker 1: He was for some days.

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Speaker 2: He was also heavy into spiritualism, which was pretty predominant

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Speaker 2: at the time. Remember, Yeah, we did a whole episode

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Speaker 2: on that. And so if you put together McDonald's transcendentalism,

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Speaker 2: Tom Thompson's Exposure of Everybody to the woods Canadian forests,

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Speaker 2: and then Lauren Harris's non spirit or non religious spiritualism,

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Speaker 2: those kind of form like that. Ethosthys I can remember

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Speaker 2: which one it is. I remember one time I said

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Speaker 2: ethos and we were on a zoom call with Scott

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Speaker 2: Ackerman and he just kind of said, almost to himself, like, wow,

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Speaker 2: you got both vowels wrong.

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Speaker 1: Did he really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? He did in no way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the kind of thing that sticks.

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Speaker 2: With you for sure. I'll never forget it. But I

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Speaker 2: still don't remember which way to say it.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was always ethos, So according to Scott Ackerman,

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Speaker 1: it would be ethos, ethos ethos. Yeah, but if you

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Speaker 1: said ethos, you didn't get both wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So so I said no ethos I think is yeah. Wow, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I think that was it. Regardless, I still don't say

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Speaker 2: it right, I'm sure, and if I do, it's accidental.

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Speaker 2: People know what I'm saying exactly. Yeah, you're Josh Clark.

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Speaker 2: We're known for mispronouncing. We really are.

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Speaker 1: So before they got together as a group again, which

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Speaker 1: was nineteen twenty, they took a pretty formidable trip in

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Speaker 1: May of nineteen twelve, when Thompson and another staff member

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Speaker 1: at the GRIP named Harry B. Jackson took this train

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Speaker 1: from Toronto to the Algonquin Provincial Park, or to Algonquin

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Speaker 1: Provincial Park. There's no d there and they just started sketching. Again.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, at the time, you know, you had

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Speaker 1: to be pretty adventurous to start venturing into those wild climbs.

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Speaker 1: It was rough and rugged territory. So certainly there probably

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Speaker 1: were not a lot of artists doing that. I mean

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Speaker 1: there were There's have always been Canadian men and women

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Speaker 1: who were like, yeah, I'm very comfortable out there and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't scare me. But I think artists to be

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Speaker 1: going out there was a pretty radical thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, these guys are They were rebels

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Speaker 2: in their time. You just got to kind of remember that,

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Speaker 2: even though retrospectively now you're like, what's a big deal,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, at the time, this is all very new.

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Speaker 2: It was very big and also, as we'll see, they

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Speaker 2: were basically making like in your face style of art

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Speaker 2: that just was not the taste of Canada at the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they spent a lot of time in that park,

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Speaker 1: and specifically Thompson at a certain point he was spending

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Speaker 1: you know, eight months out of the year there. He

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Speaker 1: left in the winter finally because it was pretty rough,

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Speaker 1: but he really really loved Algonquin Provincial Park, and I

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Speaker 1: think they even like the media initially started calling them

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Speaker 1: the Algonquin School before they settled on a name, and

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Speaker 1: some really beautiful paintings came out of that pre nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty formation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The jack Pine is a very very famous painting

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Speaker 2: in Canada that was by Tom Thompson, I think from

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixteen. It's basically when he started it. But you

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Speaker 2: can really clearly see the Art Nouveau influence that he

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Speaker 2: developed as a commercial graphic designer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Another one is a Y Jackson's The Red Maple. I

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Speaker 2: like A Y Jackson's work, but I don't like the

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Speaker 2: Red Maple, but it's about equally famous as the jack

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Speaker 2: Pine in Canada.

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Speaker 1: I like that one too, Again, not for my house,

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Speaker 1: but I would dive into it in a museum with Gusto.

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Speaker 2: They would not like that. The security guards would be

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Speaker 2: on you, like white on rice.

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Speaker 1: Oh. Sometimes I just want to touch those Oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't do it. It's like the call of

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Speaker 2: the void.

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Speaker 1: It is a call of the void. Or yeah, I

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Speaker 1: could either touch the painting in the Guggenheim or pull

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Speaker 1: the gun out of the cops holder to his security

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Speaker 1: at the Guggenheim.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that these guys did too

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Speaker 2: that was pretty smart is they got out there in

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Speaker 2: the wilderness. But it's not like they set up their

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Speaker 2: easels and were just sitting there painting the final paintings

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Speaker 2: that they showed to the public. They would do kind

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Speaker 2: of sketches. Tom Thompson was apparently very good and prolific

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Speaker 2: at it. I saw that he captured transient moments of

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Speaker 2: light and atmosphere by making these sketches out in the

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Speaker 2: actual like seeing the actual thing and then just kind

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Speaker 2: of bringing it back and translating that into the actual

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Speaker 2: finished canvas. And all of them basically did that. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: something about Tom Thompson's eye being translated to color and

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Speaker 2: texture in his paintings was really it was really something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. One of my favorite things now. And

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Speaker 1: I've noticed this because did I tell you Emily started painting.

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Speaker 2: No, how awesome what medium.

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Speaker 1: Paint on canvas? Oil? Mainly? Oh wow, she dabbled in

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Speaker 1: watercolor a little bit, but she's mainly painting oil on canvas,

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Speaker 1: And like she's good, and it's it's sort of like

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Speaker 1: surprising and annoying. It's like, oh, okay, so you can

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Speaker 1: actually paint. That's that's super cool. Yeah, but it's she

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Speaker 1: started to you know, now they make these little travel

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Speaker 1: kits that or you can do your own in like

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Speaker 1: an Altoy ten of you know, very small little paint

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Speaker 1: sets that can like fit inside of a notebook, and

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Speaker 1: she takes them along and we'll just paint little things

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Speaker 1: or sketch little things and in nature, because that's mainly

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Speaker 1: what she's painting. And we went on this last trip

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Speaker 1: when we went to New York to see Guling Gary

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Speaker 1: Glenn Ross, which was awesome. By the way, we went

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Speaker 1: to the New York Botanical Gardens for the first time

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Speaker 1: in the Bronx we had been to Brooklyn's and I

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Speaker 1: noticed there were artists just everywhere, sitting on benches, sketching

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Speaker 1: and painting stuff around them, and it's it's just such

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Speaker 1: a lovely thing to witness because it's just so quiet

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Speaker 1: and peaceful, and they're creating art inside of, you know,

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Speaker 1: the natural wonder of nature's art, and I just I

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Speaker 1: just love it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I envy that. I admire it too. I've always

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Speaker 2: wanted to be able to at least draw too. I mean,

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Speaker 2: can't do any kid. I was friends with like artists

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Speaker 2: that could draw like real like it was. They were

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Speaker 2: just natural talents at it, and I would just try, try,

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Speaker 2: try and take classes and I just couldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't either. My whole family. My father wasn't, but

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Speaker 1: my mother is an artist and an art major and

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Speaker 1: a painter. My brother could always draw. I believe my

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Speaker 1: sister could draw, and I can't draw a stick figure.

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Speaker 2: That's all right? Yeah, I was gonna say, anybody who's

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Speaker 2: seen my drawing of a horse on Instagram knows that

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 1: That was better than what I could do, I think.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Also, by the way, if Emily's making art kits

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Speaker 2: out of Altoyd tins, that makes her a Tentovator.

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Speaker 1: Chuck, Well, she's not doing that. She bought a kit,

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Speaker 1: but from a Tivator. I will not be a Tnovator

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Speaker 1: because of that episode. Can we just get that one off?

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Speaker 1: Can we scrub that?

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Speaker 2: I'm sure we can. Should we also do scuba cat? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Those are two that really should go away?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, well we'll look into that. We'll have to

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Speaker 2: ask Jerry.

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Speaker 1: Should we take a break?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess we should. We kind of got

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Speaker 2: away from ourselves, so.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break. We're gonna ask Jerry

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Speaker 1: if we can scrub a couple of episodes. That means

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to do two more at the end

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Speaker 1: of our career. Of course, that's fine, because we don't

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Speaker 1: want to short change ourselves. So we'll debate all that

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Speaker 1: and then we'll be back to talk more about the

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Speaker 1: Group of Seven.

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Speaker 2: So I think, with the exception chuck of Tom Thompson,

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Speaker 2: all of the rest of the Group of seven artists,

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Speaker 2: all of them over the years, even went and studied

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Speaker 2: in Europe at some point or another. They were formally trained.

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Speaker 2: I read that Lauren Harris was encouraged by his math

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Speaker 2: professor to study art in Berlin. Now I'm guessing then

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Speaker 2: that he wasn't very good at math. Right, you like

390
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Speaker 2: to draw, you play the piano, and I think, can

391
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Speaker 2: you do anything? Yeah. But when they were trained in Europe,

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Speaker 2: this is the time of the Impressionists. They were trained

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Speaker 2: in traditional conservative landscapes, and they brought all that back.

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Speaker 2: But they found, to their dismay that they were having

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Speaker 2: a really hard time translating the European techniques that they

396
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Speaker 2: had learned to the Canadian wilderness. It just wasn't working

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Speaker 2: quite right. And there was a really big, important turning

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Speaker 2: point that happened in nineteen twelve when Lauren Harris and j. E. H.

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Speaker 2: MacDonald traveled to Buffalo, New York to see an art

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Speaker 2: exhibition of Scandinavian artists and they were just blown away.

401
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Speaker 2: It completely freed them to create the art that went

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Speaker 2: on to become synonymous with them. And I saw that.

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Speaker 2: I think McDonald said that these were artists that were

404
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Speaker 2: not trying to express themselves so much as they were

405
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Speaker 2: trying to express something that took hold of themselves.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So these guys were like overwhelmed with nature and

408
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Speaker 2: they were painting the feeling that nature brought out in them.

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Speaker 2: And that's what the group of seven started doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool. I know. Van Go is another inspiration,

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Speaker 1: in particular from the European school, and that a technique

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Speaker 1: that I really love, the imposto technique where you just

413
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Speaker 1: goop that paint on there so you see the brushstrokes,

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Speaker 1: and in the case of some of these artists and

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Speaker 1: Mango and of course many others, it's you know, when

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Speaker 1: you get up close to these paintings, don't touch, but

417
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Speaker 1: you can lean in and get a really good look

418
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Speaker 1: at just how caked on it is in some places.

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Speaker 1: I just really really love that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you're really sly, you can kind of

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Speaker 2: touch it with the tip of your nose and just

422
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Speaker 2: be like, oops, I got too close. Yeah, sorry, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that Jack Pine Thompson's Jackpine. If you look at the

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Speaker 2: sky or the lake, you can really see his use

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Speaker 2: of that. It's really it's a really cool painting. I'm

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Speaker 2: just gonna say it again.

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Speaker 1: Agreed. Another. You know something I've learned a lot more

428
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Speaker 1: having known an artist in my adulthood is that a

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Speaker 1: big part of doing your art is just having a

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Speaker 1: space to do it. Not everyone can just set up

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Speaker 1: in their dining room or whatever, and so studio space

432
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Speaker 1: is cherished and not. It's sometimes hard to come by,

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Speaker 1: sometimes too expensive, and so patrons are very important in

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Speaker 1: that regards. And there was a guy named doctor James

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Speaker 1: McCallum who built a building along with Harris, I think

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Speaker 1: funded by James McCollum. It's called the Studio Building in

437
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: the Rosedale neighborhood of Toronto, and that was a real

438
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: sort of cohesion cohesive thing. Cohesion unit, is that a

439
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: thing yeah, like a rank leader. Yeah, it was like

440
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: two units of cohesion when they built that building.

441
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 2: For sure, which is not there anymore. Unfortunately, I think

442
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: they built a high rise apartment over it. They tore

443
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: it down first and then built the high rise apartment.

444
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 2: But during the time, I think, well into the fifties,

445
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: this was still a thriving artist studio and it was

446
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: cheap apartments as well. I saw that Tom Thompson was

447
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: so broke that he couldn't even afford the subsidized rent

448
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: for the artists apartment at the at the studio. So

449
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: again he was so likable. James McCallum built him a

450
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: shed out back and charged him a dollar a month

451
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: for it.

452
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they would you know, Canadians are known for

453
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: being nice, but they would bag on them. They'd say, man,

454
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: you're so broke you can't pay attention.

455
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 2: That's a good one.

456
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: And then they all started coming up with it, you know,

457
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 1: you're so broken joke.

458
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: How have I made it almost forty nine years without

459
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 2: having heard that one?

460
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: Have you not heard that one? No, that's the only

461
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: broke one I know. But yeah, I introduced Ruby that

462
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: whole that. You know, those kind of jokes it burns

463
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: your mama jokes and stuff that, you know, playground burns.

464
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: It's pretty fun, for sure. Your mama is so old

465
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: she owes Jesus and Nickel. Wow, did you ever hear

466
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: that one?

467
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: No? Wow, I really wasn't paying attention on the playground.

468
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: Apparently I couldn't make these up. Of course, I was

469
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,479
Speaker 1: just trying to copy the great artists of the playground.

470
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 2: For sure. But I mean I still haven't heard them.

471
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 2: And you say them just beautifully.

472
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: I appreciate. I got a lot more. I'll trot them

473
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: out here and there.

474
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 2: Moving forward, kid, kid, So we talked about Tom Thompson

475
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: dying and this is a really big deal, right it was.

476
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: Another big deal was World War One? Oh yeah, that

477
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: came along, and you know, was a big disruption because

478
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: a lot of it certainly delayed the formation, the official

479
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: formation of the group right there in the late nineteen teens.

480
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: But a lot of them actually served in the war

481
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: in some capacity. A lot of them worked for the

482
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: Canadian War Memorials Fund, and they were producing art about

483
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: the war, some of which was super cool. I don't

484
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 1: know if we should talk about it now or later,

485
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: but the well, maybe let's hang onto that. Okay, put

486
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: a dazzle camouflage. Yeah, Arthur Listmer stuff. But yeah, we'll

487
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: hold on to that.

488
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: It is cool. So yeah. One of the things that

489
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: I think also cemented Tom Thompson's reputation as one of

490
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: Canada's most famous artists is that he died under what

491
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: some people consider mysterious causes. Like this guy was born

492
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: in rural Ontario. He was an avid outdoorsman. He spent

493
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: so much time up in the Canada, the Canadian forests

494
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: I guess around Algonquin or Algoma, that he would be

495
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: a fishing guide. Sometimes he served as a park ranger.

496
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: He was just there so he might as well do

497
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: that extra stuff. And he went out one day in

498
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: a canoe and his canoe was found overturned later that

499
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: day or the next day, and he was missing. His

500
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 2: body was found I think eight days later, and he

501
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: had like a bump and a bruise on the side

502
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 2: of his face. And some people are like, well, yeah,

503
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: he just stood up in the canoe and like fell

504
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: out and like hit his head and then drowned. And

505
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: other people are like, you didn't know Tom Thompson then,

506
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: because number one, he would never do something that stupid

507
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 2: and number two see number one.

508
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's hard to tell how fishy that

509
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: might have been. It very well could have been an accident,

510
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: but it's also very easy to say, like an experience

511
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: outdoorsment like that wouldn't have died that way, But it

512
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: was officially declared an accidental drowning. Some people theorize that

513
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 1: he may have killed himself if he wasn't murdered, because

514
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: he got his girlfriend pregnant, But I couldn't really see

515
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: a lot of like solid evidence other than just people surmising.

516
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was like one or two people over the

517
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 2: years who wrote a book or something like that and

518
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: kept the whole thing alive. Yeah, but it was a

519
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 2: really big deal to the group of seven. They hadn't

520
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: even formed yet, and they lost to one of their

521
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: members already, and this was the guy who introduced them

522
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: to the wild. He was in inpherently likable guy. They

523
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: were really bummed out about it, but they still carried on,

524
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: you know, I think, at least in part out of

525
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: tribute to Tom Thompson, but also because they had really

526
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: come to appreciate what he introduced them.

527
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. That also led to another sort

528
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: of if not tragedy like setback when McDonald was helping

529
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: to build a memorial cairn at the at Canoe Lake

530
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: where he died and McDonald collapsed because you know, as

531
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: we said, he was a pretty frail guy. May have

532
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: had a stroke, but recovered within a few months, well

533
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: enough at least that he was able to go on

534
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: this painting trip you mentioned Algoma in Ontario. They went there.

535
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: Frank Johnston, who was he would be another one of

536
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: the ogs as far as the group members go, and

537
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: doctor McCollum, who funded that studio, they all went along

538
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: on this trip.

539
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they went on box car journeys because Laurence

540
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: so cool. Yeah, Laurence Harris was so rich. He went

541
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: to one of the railroads and said, hey, give us

542
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: a box car, will you, And they said, sure, mister Harris,

543
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: whatever you want. So they took a box car and

544
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: outfitted it, refurbished it with to basically turn it into

545
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: a traveling studio and arts quarters.

546
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like super cool. I mean that had

547
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: a stove that had furniture and they could move it

548
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: around to the different rail sidings and hang out and stay.

549
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: Then had a little home base there with some warm

550
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: some warmth warmth to it, sure, And the Wild River

551
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: was painted there, which is one of McDonald's biggest, most

552
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,239
Speaker 1: popular paintings, and that was in nineteen nineteen, and it

553
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: is very gorgeous as well.

554
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: It is I don't remember that one. I had so

555
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: many tabs open and looked at so much heart that

556
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: I couldn't remember that. But I don't think there was

557
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: many paintings that I was like, oh, that's a real dog.

558
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: Right, except for that one painting of the dog, the

559
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: real one.

560
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: So by this time nineteen nineteen's rolling around, they've been

561
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: on box car journeys, they've lost Tom Thompson, they've gone

562
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: out in the wild a few times. They've really kind

563
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: of gotten into this new modernist interpretation of landscapes, specifically

564
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: Canadian landscapes, to basically create this new art identity of Canada.

565
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: It's like a nationalistic art movement. And they mounted their

566
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: first exhibition from at least one or more of those

567
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: box car journeys, and I think there was something like

568
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: two hundred canvases and it did not go over all

569
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: that well.

570
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I mean there were some critics who didn't

571
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: love it. Some people did like it, but that was

572
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: just a key exhibition because it was their first one

573
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: as a group. And that was when and this is

574
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen. That's when within the group they were like,

575
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: you know, we should official, like call ourselves a school

576
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: and form an official like the Avengers. We need to

577
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: get together and be an official group because it'll probably

578
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: just help our reputation, get us a little more press. Yeah,

579
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: in February March of nineteen twenty, they did. So. Jackson

580
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: was not there. He was on one of his sketching

581
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: trips at the time, and he came home and said

582
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: that he learned that it had been formed and that

583
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: I was a member.

584
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't met Jackson yet. This is a different

585
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: Jackson than the one that went on that first trip

586
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: with Tom Thompson. This was a Jackson.

587
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: Well we introduced him, Oh we did.

588
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: I didn't remember that.

589
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: Because I almost made the joke that did they call him.

590
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: A yeah A but I didn't like the funds.

591
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: Yeah a y Jackson who actually he lived I think

592
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: the longest. Yeah, he lived all the way until nineteen

593
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: seventy four, ripe old age. He was born in Montreal,

594
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: had a single mom, with six or five other siblings

595
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: total six and as a result he had to work

596
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: a lot to support his family. But eventually he found

597
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: his way to Europe, where he was one of the ones,

598
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: like you said, that studied like formally in Europe, which

599
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: he did in France before he moved back to Ontario

600
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirteen.

601
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thanks to doctor James McCollum, he was able

602
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: to move to Toronto because he was not very well

603
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: off at the time, and McCollum said, how about this,

604
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: I will buy all of your paintings that you produce

605
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: in a year to keep you afloat essentially, and that

606
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: gave A. Y Jackson the ability to come to Toronto,

607
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: start working six hundred things right and make a name

608
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: for himself in time to be able to support himself

609
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: through his art.

610
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he had that Montreal connection, so he sort

611
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: of Montreal artists would he'd make connections with the Group

612
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: of seven again, you know, artists knowing each other and

613
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: sharing ideas and just sensibilities ethos if you will is

614
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: a good thing. But he was one of the ones

615
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: that went over with World War One to fight. He

616
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: was actually wounded there and also painted for War memorials.

617
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another guy who painted for Canadian War memorials that

618
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier was Arthur Lismer.

619
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

620
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: He was famous for painting warships that were returning to

621
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: port that had dazzle camouflage on them, which essentially is

622
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: like op art painted on warships. Yeah.

623
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: I had never heard of this before he do you No, huh,

624
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: it's super cool. It's a way for It's not you know,

625
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: camouflage in the way that it's supposed to blend in

626
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: with the sea around it. In fact, far from it.

627
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't do anything like that, right, Like you said,

628
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: it looks like cool pop art, you know, painted on

629
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: a warship like could It almost looks like some weird

630
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: art installation and not a real thing that the Navy did.

631
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: Uh.

632
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: But the intention there, again is not to like conceal

633
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: it like it's not there, but to confuse and mislead

634
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: about like the course heading or something up like that,

635
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: or like how fast they're going or yeah, like I said,

636
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: where they're headed, And apparently it worked pretty good.

637
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. They look like disjointed zebra stripes that there are

638
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: in different chunks that don't line up with one another.

639
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's on the actual ship, and he painted

640
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: paintings of these ships and they're really cool looking. I

641
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: love it.

642
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Arthur Lismer is one of those painters whose

643
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: style seemingly changed overnight around nineteen twenty and really falls

644
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: into line with the rest of the group. So it's

645
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: pretty cool.

646
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we'll go with the last three. Here.

647
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: We have Frederick Varley, who lived till nineteen sixty nine,

648
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: so I think he was the second longest. He was

649
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: a schoolmate of Lismers in England, and I think we

650
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: didn't mention that they both studied in Antwerp, Belgium, and

651
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: then he reconnected with Lismer after living in Yorkshire and

652
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: getting married, and he was like Listmer's like, come on

653
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: over to Canada, man, and he did so in nineteen twelve,

654
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: went to work at the Grip like a lot of them,

655
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: and also painted for the war memorials.

656
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was actually embedded in Europe with the Canadian military,

657
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: so a lot of his paintings that he made during

658
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: the war were like bombed out villages or I read

659
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: that he's one of his paintings was a shelled cemetery.

660
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: To basically say, like even the dead can escape war.

661
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: It's some harrowing stuff that he produced, for sure, and

662
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: he was very affected by the war. I should say, yeah,

663
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: to answer your question, who else we have is my

664
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: favorite by far of the group, Frankie, Franklin Carmichael. And

665
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 2: you were saying you wouldn't hang any of these in

666
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: your home. I would hang at Carmichael basically any of them.

667
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, actually, and that that's some of my

668
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: favorite stuff too, And I might I might hang some

669
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: of the other stuff, mambe I was being too harsh.

670
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: Hang it all. So he had kind of a more

671
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: decorative sensibility. I saw it described as he used more colorful,

672
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: softer colors. Its like just go look up Franklin Carmichael

673
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: art and you will just sit there and watch it

674
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: all day.

675
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did more water colors than the rest of them,

676
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: but did work in other medium And then rounding out,

677
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: we have Frank Johnston born in Toronto, so another one

678
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: of Canadians sons, and he worked at the Grip as well,

679
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: and he's I think the only one that actually studied

680
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: in the United States. He went there for a little while,

681
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: studied there, did some work there, and then went back

682
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: to Toronto in nineteen fifteen, and he was known for his

683
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: opaque watercolor techniques, so he was kind of, you know,

684
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: watercolors quicker, so he was pumping out paintings much quicker

685
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: than the rest of these guys.

686
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw he contributed sixty of the two hundred

687
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 2: canvases that were at that first show.

688
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

689
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: He also this is so artist. He was born Francis

690
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: Hans Johnston, and later on in life he compressed that

691
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: to Franz.

692
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Hans and Franz.

693
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: Pretty cool. Yeah, exactly.

694
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: Maybe we should take another break, yes, and we'll be

695
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: back with mart Art. All right. So we've talked about

696
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty and what happened over and over again. But

697
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: finally on May seventh is when the official Unified School

698
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: opened at the Art Gallery of Toronto with one hundred

699
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: and twenty paintings. And this is like definitely when the

700
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: critics kind of some of them poo pooed it. One

701
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: described some of the paintings as looking like the contents

702
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: of a drunkard's stomach. And I think this was maybe

703
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: more just because it was a departure from the traditional art.

704
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: They got popular pretty quickly. I think their second show

705
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: in May of twenty one drew about twenty five hundred

706
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: people over just three weeks in change. So people got

707
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: on board pretty quickly.

708
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Again because in part this is that

709
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: they were painting Canada's national identity. That's right. One of

710
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: the other things. I don't know if I've made that

711
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: point yet.

712
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: I think a few more times that might get at home.

713
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: One of the other things that was really big about

714
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 2: this this show was that the director of the National

715
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: Gallery of all of Canada bought at least three of

716
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 2: their works. His name was Eric Brown, and in addition

717
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 2: to basically ensconsing them in Canada's National Gallery saying like

718
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 2: these guys are legit, this is the real deal, he

719
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: put them in other exhibitions that Canada put on around

720
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: the world. And he would really play a big role

721
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: later on during World War one and two, as we'll see.

722
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he you know, he was a patron of

723
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: the arts. He loved these guys, but he was also

724
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: criticized at times later by just solely being into these

725
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: guys and like, hey, you're not championing the work of

726
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: women as much as you should, or are indigenous artists,

727
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: So you know, he was criticized for that. That's all

728
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: I'll say for sure.

729
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: So the group is kind of like rolling by now

730
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: they're doing more journeys. They're meeting once in a while

731
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: to basically set up exhibitions. Franz Johnston leaves and they're like, well, God,

732
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 2: where the group of seven? We need to get a seventh.

733
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 2: They bring in a guy named aj Cassen, who used

734
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: to be Franklin Carmichael's assistant. They're like, okay, let's just

735
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: break the trend and bring in an eighth member. So

736
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: they brought in a guy named Edwin Holgate. He was

737
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: brought in in nineteen twenty nine.

738
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a portraitist, which was a little different

739
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: from the rest.

740
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: Of them for sure. He had also formed another group

741
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: in Montreal called the beaver Hall Group, which is a.

742
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: Pretty good group name, Yeah, great name.

743
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 2: And then Lemoyne Fitzgerald, who you could call the Jinks.

744
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 2: He was brought on in nineteen thirty two. The group

745
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: broke up in nineteen thirty three, So the Jinks missed

746
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: their last exhibition in nineteen thirty one, and then he

747
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: was there for their breakup the year after. He was

748
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: brought on board.

749
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's too bad for Lemoyne, but he got a

750
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: brief taste and then you know, he looked until nineteen

751
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: fifty six, so he was still painting after that. We

752
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: did mention a woman, Emily Carr near the beginning as like,

753
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: you know, this is a boys club, but she was

754
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: never official officially Group of seven because of that, but

755
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: they did feature her works in some of their shows,

756
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: one in nineteen twenty seven in particular, and that's when

757
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: they you know, they kind of pulled her aside and

758
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: they were like, hey, you know, you're really you're one

759
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: of us. Like it might not be official, but you're

760
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: definitely one of us.

761
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: But don't tell anybody.

762
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, don't tell anyone. And she painted a lot

763
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: of indigenous villages and stuff like that. Yeah, and at

764
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: one point was doing indigenous art like hooked rugs and

765
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: pottery and selling it to tourists. But yeah, she like

766
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: even way back then, was like, wait a minute, maybe

767
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm appropriating this. They didn't use that word, I'm sure,

768
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: but she stopped doing it. She was like, this is

769
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: not a culture I'm a part of, so maybe I

770
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing it and selling it.

771
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that lady was ahead of even MPR.

772
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or what's Canada's version of NPR.

773
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 2: CBC now, right, of course, So all good things must

774
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 2: come to an end. And one of the things that

775
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 2: I think you can give a nod to the Group

776
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 2: of Seven about is they're like, Hey, this thing's run

777
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 2: its course. Let's just disband. So they actually disbanded, They

778
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: had a formal disbanding, I think again in nineteen thirty three.

779
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 2: It was LeMoyne's fault. Again. Part of it was that

780
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: McDonald had died in nineteen thirty two, and again he

781
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: was kind of like the guy who was the original,

782
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 2: the figurehead, I think, Papa Smurt. Yeah, that was part

783
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: of it. They thought I had to run its course.

784
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: But they were also now starting to get real pushback,

785
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 2: not just them, but also the National Gallery and Eric

786
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 2: Brown saying like, you know, there's other there's other artists

787
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: in Canada. Can we kind of include them. There's other

788
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: parts of Canada besides the northern Boreal forest. Yeah, And

789
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: because of that they actually stepped back. They disbanded the

790
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: Group of Seven and then they regrouped and expanded to

791
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: the Canadian Group of Painters, which started out with twenty

792
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: eight artists and eventually grew to sixty one total over

793
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: the years, and this one included women.

794
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: Yes, they expanded it greatly at that point. One of

795
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: the reasons that you know, they're obviously famous because they

796
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: were you know, Canadian through and through and what they

797
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: were doing and where they were living in some of

798
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: them where they were from. But they in World War two,

799
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: the Canadian government got involved to do this silkscreen program

800
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: where they silk green prints of this art and they

801
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: put them up in their buildings and their government buildings

802
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: and then put them up for sale. And Eric Brown

803
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: was behind that as well, and that really just cemented

804
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: them because all of a sudden people were like buying

805
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: this stuff and putting it on their own walls as prints.

806
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were in banks, they were in schools. Apparently

807
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: Arthur Lismer, one of the original Group of seven, was

808
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 2: in charge in part of selecting images. So, yeah, the

809
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: Group of seven was disproportionately represented in this and that

810
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: is one reason why they are so enmeshed in Canada's

811
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: artistic psyche, Like this is Canadian art, this is the

812
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: foundation of it. That's a big part of it.

813
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you could get it at the Spencer Gifts

814
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: all of a sudden.

815
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: Yes, and you could you could also make an argument

816
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: that they were selected for this cheap silk screen reproduction

817
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 2: because the colors, the bold colors, the shapes, the contours

818
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: of the whole thing. They it was ripe for reproduction

819
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: through screen printing.

820
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure it looked good on a screenprint. Emily

821
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: Carr was not chosen. In fact, no women were chosen,

822
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: and I think no artists that painted the coastlines of

823
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: Canada were chosen, and no work by indigenous artists as well,

824
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: or work that depicted their community. So again some controversy

825
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: surrounding that stuff. Obviously, that kind of thing today would

826
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: be handled a lot differently, but this was again back

827
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen forties when they started the silk screening.

828
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was interesting that they were still criticized

829
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: for that kind of stuff even back then. You know

830
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,479
Speaker 2: people were aware of it, for sure, Yeah, totally. But yeah,

831
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: if you want to waste some time, well wasted, I

832
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: should say, go check out the Group of seven dot

833
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: CA and they have bios and like a lot of

834
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 2: selected art or just look up these artists and type

835
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 2: in artist name works, and just look at all the

836
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: amazing stuff that comes up. It's good stuff. I'm glad

837
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: you found this one or picked it, or it was suggested.

838
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

839
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: I think I had just heard of him, and Olivia

840
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: helped us out. And I love learning more and more

841
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: about art here later in life, me too. Chuck in

842
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: my fifties.

843
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 2: Well, since Chuck said he's in his fifties, of course,

844
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: that means he's just unlocked. Listener mail, mid fifties.

845
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 1: When are you fifty?

846
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: I will be fifty the July after next, And I

847
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: don't care because forties suck. Yeah, it's the worst decade

848
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: so far at least. But I've heard it just gets

849
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: better after your forties, that your life satisfaction dips in

850
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 2: the forties and starts to climb back up and peaks

851
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: again in your sixties, and that that is comparable to

852
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: your younger years, the peak of happiness. So we have

853
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 2: a lot to look forward to, man.

854
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, just get ready.

855
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to be podcasting the whole time.

856
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: That's right, all right, This is a positive correction about fentanyl.

857
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: By the way, we got some props for just saying

858
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: fentanyl not fentanyl all right. Josh noted, if you go

859
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: to prison, you're expected to simply dry out and hopefully

860
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: recover that way. That is not the case, Guys, I

861
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: teach in a correctional play in Indiana. I'm happy to

862
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: report that our prisons give incarcerated individuals or iii IS

863
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: the option to take subox zone in a controlled environment

864
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: at a certain time each day. The II and the

865
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: program are sent to our medical department and given suboxone

866
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: in order to help with their treatment. This has helped

867
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: those who struggle with addiction, but it's important to note

868
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: that it can be addictive, leading to potential abuse as well.

869
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: Suboxone compared with recovery programs, has helped a lot of

870
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: my students, and I found I've been very fortunate to

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00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: see some people turn their lives around through this. And

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00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: we heard from a couple of other correctional workers from

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00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: different states that do the same thing, So it sounds

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00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: like it's sort of the norm.

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00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's heartening.

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00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great to hear. Additionally, guys, I appreciate that

877
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: you cleared up some misconceptions about fentanyl. I can confirm

878
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: that those ideas still impact law enforcement, as our officers

879
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: are required to wear gloves during cell searches in order

880
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: to prevent absorbing fentanyl through the skin. Thanks for providing

881
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: years of knowledge and relaxed and fund manner. Thanks for

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00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: coming to Indianapolis. I was at the show and it

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00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: was great.

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00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 2: It was a good show.

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00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: And that is from Samuel Adult Basic Education instructor.

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00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: Thanks Samuel, you're out there doing God's work. Congratulations to

887
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: you and thank you for it. And if you want

888
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: to be like Samuel and gently correct us, we love

889
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. You can send it via email

890
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 2: to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

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00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.