WEBVTT - Selects: Operation Mincemeat: How A Corpse Fooled the Nazis 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:02.520 Hi, everybody, Happy Saturday. 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.480 It's Chuck here, and I am picking out our select 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:07.480 for this week, and I'm going with a more recent one, 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.600 maybe controversial to do so, but it's our episode on 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.119 Operation Min's Meat. And I am picking that one because 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.440 I don't think we're able to record this for that episode. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:21.280 But the Broadway show Operation Min's Meat was literally inspired 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.200 by this episode. The one of the stars and the 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.799 producers was all over Variety magazine and all over the 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.600 place in interview saying that her brother they were searching 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.720 for a show to do, to write and make into 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.320 a Broadway show, and he said, Hey, you should check 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.720 out this episode of stuff. You should know Operation Min's Meat. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.280 This is this really crazy story and I think there's 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.600 something there. And there was something there because not only 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:45.760 did they make it to a Broadway show, it's been 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.400 a pretty big hit and was nominated for Tony Awards 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.760 and I am going to get to go see it 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.720 in New York City next weekend, and I'm super excited 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.760 because I think I get to meet the cast. So anyway, 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.960 here we go, everyone, another little feather in our cap 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:06.640 Operation mince Meat colon How a corpse Fooled the Nazis. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:16.920 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.399 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.480 Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Rowland. This is Stuff 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.000 you Should Know. Chuck. Yo, I'm thirty nine years old 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.360 and I still can't say my own name correctly because 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:30.959 of my stupid thick tongue. 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.920 Oh you're gonna be forty yeah soon. Crazy. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:35.520 Yeah. 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:37.240 Used to make fun of me, and now you're old. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:39.520 Well, you're still older than me. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:41.160 I know that I can do about that. 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.480 It's cool though. Yeah, you're aging very well. Yeah, no, 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:46.880 you're aging really well. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.520 But you mean the teeth falling out, the weight gain 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.600 and the gray beard. 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:54.320 I still say you're aging very well. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:54.880 I appreciate it. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.760 Yeah, let's get your hair, take off your hat. 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:57.680 I still got good hair. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.600 Boom, look at that the got hat head now beautiful. 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.600 Okay, people think I'm bald. Some people do? Oh? 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.560 Really like you're always wearing that hat, do you? 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:08.080 I don't know. 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:13.040 Suspicious people, yeah, like the drummer for the Chili Peppers. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:17.960 Anthony Keatith Flee Nope, the guy from Jane's Addiction, Nope 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:19.000 I don't know them, not. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.160 John for SHUNTI Chad Smith, the guy that looks like 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.600 Will Ferrell, He's always Will Ferrell. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:26.880 He's always got that hat on backwards. 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:32.240 And he's bald. Oh yeah, totally Brett, like Brett Michael's bald. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.280 I remember he always wears a do ragh. He's super bald. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:37.400 So I get why people are suspicious. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:42.480 If you're a public figure that has a patented hat piece, 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.960 then it's probably because you're bald, but not in my case. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.200 What a weird way to start the show, especially this show, 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:55.040 Operation mince meat yep, which is a ghoulish gallows humor 0:02:55.320 --> 0:03:00.839 awesomely World War two British name for this, this operation. Yeah, 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.520 this will live alongside our Nazi spies and Invading Florida. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.000 Podcast and the History Girls covered this this very topic 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:09.639 as well. Yeah. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.360 Man, there's nothing I love more than little known history. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.160 This is it. But this is great little known history. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.000 Yeah, and this shouldn't be middle known because it was 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.440 after the Trojan War, maybe the largest and most successful 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.960 military deception plan in history. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.320 Well there was also have you seen that documentary Ghost 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.920 Army about Operation Fortitude. No, they used a bunch of 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.320 blow up tanks and planes, like inflatable tanks and planes 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.280 to make it look like there was a whole Allied 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:42.760 division over here. Yeah, so that we could invade Normandy moreas. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:44.960 It's like a Looney Tune cartoon. 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.440 Awesome, but yes, this ranks up there with literally with 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.960 the Trojan Horse. It's that ingenious and that wonderful. 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:51.520 Yeah. 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.080 But so let's set the stage right, Okay, So in 0:03:54.240 --> 0:04:00.000 early nineteen forty three, the war was very much undecided. Yeah, 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.080 it could have been anybody's. Like Europe was under the 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.840 control of Hitler, huge amounts of Europe. They called it 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.840 Fortress Europe because the Nazis were just had just overrun 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:16.839 the place, were dug in, and the Allies knew that 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.440 they needed to get into Europe to topple Hitler or else, 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.760 like they weren't going to win the war. Sure, so 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:28.120 Churchill suggested attacking Europe's under belly, which is maybe Italy, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.799 Greece under Sirdinia. He called it the underbelly, not very flattering, 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.480 but he called it Europe's underbelly. So everybody, the Allies, 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:44.880 the Greeks, the Nazis, the Japanese, the people in Hawaii, 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:50.400 everybody knew. Yeah, they weren't American quite yet. Okay, everybody 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.120 knew that the Allies were going to attack somewhere in 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:54.680 that area. 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.640 Yeah, come up through the Mediterranean. Even Hitler feared this 0:04:58.839 --> 0:04:59.520 the most. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.840 Right, but key, right, And I mean everybody knew the 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:04.400 Allies were coming and they were going to come there. 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.840 But this land mass, this area of land and see 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.359 is large enough that you can't just be like, oh, 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.040 they're coming down there, we got it covered. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:12.920 Yeah, we'll cover it all. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.279 You need to know kind of specifically where they were covering. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.279 And there were just a few places where they could 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.599 have come. One was Greece, that was where Hitler always suspected, yeah, 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:26.080 one was Sardinia, right, yeah, and then another was Sicily. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:26.599 Yeah. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.680 And in nineteen forty three, I think January, the Allied 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:35.640 powers met in French Morocco and held a conference, the 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.240 Casablanca Conference, very sexy name, yeah, it really was, and 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.480 they said, okay, we're going to invade Sicily this July. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.279 We're going to call it Operation Husky. Now we have 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.800 to do everything we can to not let the Nazis 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:54.240 know that that's where we're going. And that actually hatched 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.520 eventually what's called Operation Mincemeat. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.320 Yeah, you know what, studying the stuff and I'm not 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.200 a big war buff, although I'm getting more so, but 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.760 reading up on this stuff, like the old wars are 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:09.720 so much like the board game risk. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:11.400 Yeah, that it's startling. 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.279 Yeah, it's literally when you look at this stuff, it's 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.200 like moving troops to where you think people are gonna 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.040 attack you, right, and rolling the dice a bit, and 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.880 if you're right, then great. If not, you're screwed. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.239 Very much though, which is why it's such a huge 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:30.400 shift that we're seeing now moving to unconventional warfare, because. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:31.159 That's scary stuff. 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.039 Yeah. I think pretty much all war is scary. Yeah. 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.160 Well, of course I'm not saying like Normandy was a 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.440 gay walker anything, because they knew what there was going on. 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.480 Man, I watched Stavin Private Ryan again the other day. God, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.800 it's crazy. That thing's almost a snuff film. It's not 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.400 as bad as We Were Soldiers, which is a snuff film, 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:50.680 but it's. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.200 I never saw that one. The Mel Gibson w Yeah. 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.800 Dude, it's it's the most graphically violent mainstream movie ever made. 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:58.320 Really, yes, wow. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:03.760 Yeah, Like there's a part where they have a shot 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.600 a camera shot over this guy's shoulder, right, so his 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.680 helmets in the near foreground, and that guy takes a 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.720 hit to the head and like blood spray covers the 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.480 camera lens for the next like a little while. Wow, 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.880 his brains just cover the camera. It's disgusting. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:23.440 Did you like Saving Private Ryan again? 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.480 Though? Yeah, it's a great movie, but it is like 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.600 really like violent. That's another thing about getting older is 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.360 that stuff affects you more and more. The more you 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.400 come to terms with your own mortality, the more valuable 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.320 life becomes. The more valuable even a character in a 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.640 movie's life becomes, you know what I mean. That stuff 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:40.160 gets to. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.640 You, agreed. It's called growing up, my friend. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.560 I'm becoming human in it grows all right. 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.720 So on September twenty ninth, nineteen thirty nine, there was 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.800 a director of British Naval Intelligence named Admiral John Godfrey, 0:07:55.400 --> 0:08:00.120 and he distributed something called the Trout Memo and it 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.960 was written by his assistant Lieutenant Commander Ian Fleming. Familiar name, yeah, 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:06.600 creator of James Bond. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:07.920 That's right, the guy. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.560 And I think most people know that he served at 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.440 this point. Yeah, but if you didn't, that's a nice 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:14.320 little factoid for you. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.800 So he wrote the Trout Memo, and they called it 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.560 the Trout Memo because they pointed out in the intro 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:24.640 that the trout fisherman fishes very patiently, but he changes 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.400 venue frequently. Yeah, and he changes his bait very frequently too, 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.679 And so they wanted to they're charged with deception. They 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.720 wanted to come up with all these different ideas, all 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.040 this different bait and venue changes that they could come 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:38.360 up with. 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:39.839 Yeah, and this was a time too. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:44.520 We should point out that spying, spying is always vital, 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.160 but man, in World War Two, it was going on 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.240 all over the place in a huge, huge part. 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:50.440 Of the war. 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.000 So we need to do one on the Enigma machine, 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.239 by the way, at some point. 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.480 We do, because that's one of the unsung heroes in 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:58.199 this operation. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.320 Absolutely all right. 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:04.360 So with the Trout Memo, Ian Fleming wrote, well, co 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.720 authored fifty one different operations suggestions, and number twenty eight 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:15.439 was one called a suggestion parentheses, not a very nice one. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.600 The following suggestion is used in a book by Basil Thompson. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.000 I'm so pleased that you said Basil instead of Basil. Yeah. 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.000 In fact, that was a nineteen thirty seven dollars novel 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.720 The Milliner's Hat Mystery. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.240 And he was actually a World War One spy. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.520 Oh really, yeah, it's all coming together. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.760 So he was a spy writer. That Ian Fleming, the 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:41.160 creator of James Bond Doug Crazy. So that's where this originates. 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.640 So here, Oh, that's right. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:45.760 The following suggestion is used in a book by Basil 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:50.480 Thompson Colin A corpse dressed as an airman with dispatches 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.880 in his pockets could be dropped on the coast, supposedly 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.520 from a parachute that had failed. I understand there is 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.600 no difficulty in obtaining corpses at the Naval hospital, but 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:01.640 of course it would have to be a fresh one. 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.960 So the idea is, let's get a dead person, let's 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.360 dress him up like a soldier, give him some sensitive 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:15.040 documents that leak this invasion fraudulent, fraudulent, yeah, very important, 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.600 that leak the invasion of Greece, which is not really happening. 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:20.920 And they're going to mount up troops there and we'll 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.920 actually go in sicily, they're gonna find this body. They're 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:28.480 gonna think they've stumbled upon this great happy accident, and 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:29.480 we're going to fool them. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.160 So yeah, that was the That was the whole idea. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:33.800 That was the general basis of it. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.719 And Churchill loved the idea because apparently he liked what 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:42.200 he called corkscrewthinkers because he knew Hitler thought in a 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.280 straight line. Yes, and by corkscrew thinkers, I think that 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:46.320 would be our equivalent of. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:47.760 Outside the box exactly. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:48.440 Yeah. Yeah. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.800 Churchill was like, this is great, I love church Let's 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:53.520 drink some scotch and do it. 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:59.760 Yeah, let's look like a bulldog while Yeah. So the 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.360 the well, that idea was roughly outlined by Ian Fleming, 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.520 and then the the Churchill's course crew thinkers, the XX 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:11.120 committee led by you and Montague and. 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:14.080 Chumley. 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.760 Yeah, which is his name is not spelled Chumley? 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:18.840 No, how's it spelled? 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:21.040 Are you ready for this? 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:21.520 Yeah? 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.280 Charles c h O l m O n d e 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.280 l e y pronounced Chumley. Yeah. 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.080 And apparently when he met people he would say, uh, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.280 Lieutenant Charles Chumley c h O L m O n 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:36.280 d e l e y. 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.959 He would spell it out what he really Yeah? 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:40.880 Are you making fun of me? Or is that for real? 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:41.280 No? 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:42.480 No, No, he was a very quirky guy. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.720 And that's how he described himself as toothpaste, as if 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.079 it had been squeezed from the tube like he self 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.960 described he would go hunting with a revolver, like bird hunting. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:53.400 He's a weird guy. 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.120 I actually watched a quickie BuzzFeed video on this, huh 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.920 and they pronounced it Charles Charle. 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:01.920 Did they really? 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:02.360 Yeah? 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.520 Nice, I'm glad we did our research. Shout out to BuzzFeed. 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.480 So you and Montague, right, yeah, the other guy. He 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.640 is noteworthy in a number of ways too. Apparently he's 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:18.080 just the greatest guy ever, most interesting man on the planet. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.600 And he actually wrote the book, the first book on 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.280 Operation Mincemeat, because he was one of the people who 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:24.880 came up with this and implemented it. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.160 The man who was never there, the man who never 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:29.240 was got right. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.200 So came a movie too, Yeah, of the same name, 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:36.960 starring Montgomery Cliff, I believe, no, starring Cliff Clay Webb. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:43.520 Cliff Claven Cliff Webb, but not Montgomery Cliff. Those two 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:51.000 are virtually interchangeable. So you and Montague was already notable 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.480 because at school he and his brother had created the 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:55.160 rules for ping pong. 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.760 No way yeah, I did not know that. 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:03.319 Among other things, and his brother, equally interesting, equally rambunctious, 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.920 went on to become a spy for the Soviets. 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:11.800 Oh wow, yes, so he turned yes against England, yes, wow, 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:16.240 against everybody except for the Soviets. Well, Montague was a 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.160 he was formerly a barrister and attorney, and this is 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.840 why he actually did not go serve on a ship. 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.679 And the other guy, Chumbley, never flew a plane. One 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:31.480 was air Force, one was a navy, And apparently Montague 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.240 was as an attorney, was very good at just seeing 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:36.080 all the angles. 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.840 So they said, you, sir, are perfect for this job. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:40.559 Nice as why. 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:57.840 Saish? 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.559 All right, chuck, Yes, So we have the rough outline 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.680 that Ian Fleming came up with the XX Committee, led 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.800 by you and Montague and Charles. 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.920 Chumley, part of I five, I believe. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.760 Okay, Yeah, said we're gonna take this particular idea and 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.880 really run with it. And like you said, they were 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:20.960 going to. Well, the first thing they did was start 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:22.640 setting about creating a backstory. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.640 Yeah. Well they had three months, so the clock is 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:25.520 ticking at this point. 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.920 Yeah, because here's the thing. They set the invasion right 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.120 in January and they set the invasion for July. Now 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:36.880 you needed enough time to plant this, this corpse, this 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:43.640 fake dead courier into Nazi hands, yea, and give the 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.400 with enough time so that the Nazis could digest it, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.120 analyze it, decide it was truthful, and then react the 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.640 way you wanted them to, which meant that they had 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.080 no later than May or else this plan was out 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:57.520 the window. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.320 Yeah, you wanted them. The ultimate goal was to have 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.880 the Nazis put their troops in the wrong place, and 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:03.840 that takes time. 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.480 Right, So they looked around and they decided that the 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.200 best place to carry out this operation was Spain. And 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:14.280 Spain during World War Two was allegedly ostensibly neutral, Sure, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.800 but they had a lot of Axis sympathies, a lot 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:22.360 of connections to Nazi Germany. And there was a particular 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:29.600 Nazi agent, a spy working in a port called Whoevla. 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:35.960 Whoevla right, sure, and his name was Adolf Klaus. And 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:40.080 Adolf Klaus was known to be very methodical, pretty brutal, 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.920 and ruthless, extremely gullible. 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.560 Yeah, he was a straight line thinker. He was hitler. 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.760 He wasn't one that could think outside the box and 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.520 think maybe this is an elaborate hoax. 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.960 That guy didn't even own a real corkscrew, you know, 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.320 Like they targeted this guy cut the top off of 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.240 wine bottles. Yeah, they specifically targeted. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:15:58.880 Him, which is amazing. 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.960 So they wanted this guy, who was fairly gullible but 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.680 also known as like a very respected Nazi agent in Spain, 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.000 to be the one who came up with this corpse 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.120 and cadaver. So before they ever had any corpse or 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:19.400 cadaver or anything like that, Montague and Chumley start setting 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.040 about creating a backstory. And they created this guy named 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:30.520 Major Martin, William Martin, that's right. And they created Major 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.360 William Martin, and they created this whole persona. And this 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.920 wasn't the first time they'd done it. They'd actually they 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.480 had chops with this kind of stuff. So they had 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:45.160 created a fake spy network that made Nazi Germany think 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.240 that they had a whole double double agent network in 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.040 the UK. And all of them were fictitious, not real 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:57.960 people that you and Montague and Charles Chumley had created. 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:02.680 These fake personas fed the Nazis misinformation through these people 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.760 that didn't really exist. So they took that understanding and 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.880 that thinking of what it takes to create a fake persona, 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.639 and they said about creating one for major William Martin. 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.000 Yeah, And there's a great BBC documentary on this, and 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.919 they interview a lot of the players, including a lot 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:18.919 of the women who worked at mi I five in 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.280 the office, and they were all just so delighted that 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.280 they all described this as like the most exciting adventure 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.640 they'd ever had. I'm sure it was like something out 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.400 of a spine novel and they were living it right, 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.919 And so they all had great fun creating these characters, 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.560 these made up people. They wanted to give him a 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.359 fiance because the idea is that they find this body 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.520 with what not only these documents in a briefcase, the 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.520 important documents, but to make it believable, he had to 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.800 have believable what they called pocket litter or wallet litter, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.479 which is, if you find any person on the street, 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:55.720 ask him to open their wallet, you're gonna be able 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.840 to tell a lot about them. Sure, so just stuff 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.320 to legitimize it. So they said, let's give them a fiance, say, 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.639 and all the women in the office wanted to be 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:03.360 the fiance. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:04.400 Oh yeah, so. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.560 They all submitted photographs. They picked this one Lady Jean 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.199 Leslie secretary. 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.320 Okay, that's the lady on the beach. 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.960 Yes, picture of her in a bathing suit on the beach, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.240 So this was going to be planted on his body. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.600 They all wanted to write the love letters back and forth, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.720 but they picked a woman named Hester Leggert, the head 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.520 secretary of m I five, and she wrote even though 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.760 she was a spinster, she wrote all these like heartfelt 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:29.359 love letters. 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.360 The first couple drafts were really dirty, and they were like, 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.119 you kind of tone this down a little bit. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.879 You're like, is that what you think happens in a relationship. 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.439 He's like, no, not me, the fictitious lady. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:42.199 So everyone's really excited. In the office. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.679 Chumley is wearing what would eventually be the uniform of 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.040 Martin every day to give it that worn in look awesome. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.439 Monta Hue actually ended up having an affair with the 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.440 secretary who gave him the photo as the fiance. Okay, 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.639 they had a real life affair as Bill and Pam. 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.560 Pam is the made up fiance. It got a little weird, weird, 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.160 like they wrote each other love letters, had a real 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.119 life affair, calling each other Bill and Pam. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.719 Huh, so there was some like strange role playing going on. 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.719 I'm sure he was married at the time. His family 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.760 had been shipped to America, so he was not doing 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.480 the right thing there, jeez, he was. He was allous 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:25.240 in that department. 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.600 Well, you know also Roald Dahl, the guy who wrote 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.760 James and the Giant Peach and Charlie and Chocolate Factory. 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.879 He was a spy for the British. He was in 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.680 the British military and his whole job was to basically 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:43.240 bed the wives of American officials here in Washington. Really, yeah, 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:44.480 did he do so? Oh? Yeah? 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:44.920 Oh wow? 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.119 Oh he made his way through Washington society. Wow, apparently 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:49.119 with great zeal. 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.040 All right, so they're cooking up this backstory. 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.280 They get other great things for the wallet letter, like 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.280 theater ticket stubs and an overdraft letter from his bank, 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.919 and just these things that make it seem like super realistic. 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.560 Right, and what else? I think they gave him a 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.320 Saint Christopher Metal. Maybe they wanted to strongly imply that 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.720 he was Roman Catholic and that'll come up very It'll 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.240 become very important in a minute, right, yes, very much. 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.520 So they've got this backstory, and apparently like this. They 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.600 were working feverishly on this stuff, having the weirdo affair, 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.720 wearing the uniform, all that stuff before they'd even gotten 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.720 final approval, just because they didn't want to stop work 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:32.680 and then have to pick it up feverishly. They wanted 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.880 this to keep going. So they finally got final approval 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.840 from Admiral Godfrey to carry out this thing for real. 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.600 And when they got final approval, they said, okay, we 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.600 need a body, and they figured no problem they were 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:52.879 looking at first. They needed somebody who had relatives that 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.560 didn't care what happened to the body after death and 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.840