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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: There. I'm over here, you know, just hanging out doing

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Speaker 2: my thing, and.

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Speaker 3: I I have a question, what is it five times?

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Speaker 3: It's five?

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Speaker 2: Could? Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Yes, dude, Okay, So recently one of my heroes passed away,

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Speaker 3: Bob Newhart. I thought, no, come on now, Bob Newhart

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Speaker 3: passed away, right, and I love that guy, and I

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Speaker 3: learned a fun fact about him, and it's ridiculous. So

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Speaker 3: his first album was called The Button Down Mind of

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Speaker 3: Bob Newhart, and I used to listen to his old

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Speaker 3: comedy albums, right, But what I didn't know was a

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Speaker 3: few things about this album. Well, for one, he won

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Speaker 3: the Grammy for Best New Artist as a comedian. I

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Speaker 3: think it's the only time that's ever happened.

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Speaker 2: Oh it wasn't, like best New Comedian. Out of all

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Speaker 2: the recordings, he beat the Curse.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he beat like Also he beat Leontine Price and

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Speaker 3: Miriam mckiba. And he also beat Sinatra for Best Album

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Speaker 3: of the Year. I mean like it, yes, what, Oh totally,

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Speaker 3: it's okay, it's nuts like, oh ahead. Then he also

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Speaker 3: it is the it's the highest selling comedy album of

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Speaker 3: the twentieth century.

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Speaker 2: And then you were listening to it as a kid.

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Speaker 3: I was listening to as a kid. So my mother

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Speaker 3: gave me all of her old Bob Newhart albums, and

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Speaker 3: I loved him. I memorized him. But the thing that

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Speaker 3: that's wild to me is so he he does that

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Speaker 3: recording that album. He recorded it down in Houston. It

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Speaker 3: was only the second time he'd ever done stand up.

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Speaker 3: What he never did stand up. And then all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, they're like, hey, we want to do a comedy.

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Speaker 3: We want you to record it, like in like in

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Speaker 3: a club doing stand ups. Like I don't do that.

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Speaker 3: They're like, what do you mean. He's like, I just

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Speaker 3: I make these recordings and I send him in. They

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Speaker 3: play on the radio station, the DJ plays them. That's

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Speaker 3: how people know me. They're like, huh, well, can you

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Speaker 3: do it on a stage? What you do with the

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Speaker 3: with the fake phone calls and all that, And he's like,

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Speaker 3: I guess I can try. So he goes down to Houston.

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Speaker 3: He does one weekend, practices it in front of a crowd,

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Speaker 3: then next weekend does it live again, records it, and

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Speaker 3: that's what you hear on the album.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's incredible, it's amazing, It's ridiculousiculous.

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Speaker 3: And that's the greatest comedy album of the twentieth century.

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Speaker 3: Highest Sailing gets them all these everybody recognizes it, you know,

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Speaker 3: both the credits and the fans. Yeah, and I couldn't

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Speaker 3: believe that.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to know what else is ridiculous? Totally

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Speaker 2: sneaky turkeys and a barefoot married Magdalene Good. This is

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Speaker 2: a Ridiculous Crime, A podcast about absurd and outrageous cavers

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Speaker 2: i and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free

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Speaker 2: and one hundred percent ridiculous. Damn right, here we go.

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Speaker 3: It's Ben whiles erin Why Where? Who told you that?

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Speaker 2: It's Ben A Whiles Since I told you about a

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Speaker 2: good art crime?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know I love these. So you finally

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Speaker 3: got my comments that I put in the comment box.

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Speaker 3: Oh no crimes again this week? Just yeah?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm not employee of the month every

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Speaker 2: month like you are. Maybe learned to park, I could

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Speaker 2: I just can't listen. Yes, I mentioned this guy or

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Speaker 2: as you would say, Katy.

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Speaker 3: And I know Louis Armstrong invented that as slang. That's

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Speaker 3: why I say it out of honor to Louis Good.

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Speaker 2: That's good me out of him. And I talked about

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Speaker 2: this guy in our listener Mail episode Friend of the Show.

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Speaker 2: Hondo recommended this guy, and let me say that was

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Speaker 2: a great recommendation. Yeah. Classic. So the guy's name is

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Speaker 2: Lothar mallscat. That sounds like when you're mallscat. It sounds

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Speaker 2: like when you're making up words to make a toddler.

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Speaker 3: You know what scat is, right?

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Speaker 2: I know what? You know what a mall is a Lothar,

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Speaker 2: which like, okay, so right there, I'm sold. He's no bumfardo,

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Speaker 2: but it's good.

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Speaker 3: Of the mall people.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like the name of a small woodland creature

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Speaker 2: in like a British nature documentary that lines its den

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Speaker 2: in candy wrappers and scavenged pubic hair.

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Speaker 3: You can see that the wild loth ball scat. He's

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Speaker 3: been dwelling here for a bit of.

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Speaker 2: Time, behold in the natural habitat. Okay, but I kid

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Speaker 2: ha ha. Let's talk about the real Lothar. He was

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Speaker 2: born in East Prussia nineteen thirteen. Now it's called where

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Speaker 2: he was was Knesberg. Now it's Kaliningrad, Russia, Russia, port

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Speaker 2: city on the Baltic. So you've been there, hang out

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Speaker 2: there all the time.

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Speaker 3: I got a buddy who's still there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got jugged there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's in the black markets. But I can't talk

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 2: He's I need art at this art school, Kundan's Kuhnskatami Conesberg.

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Speaker 3: My buddy went so fun to say he's a dance instructor.

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Speaker 2: Uh. His professors said that he had quote extraordinary, almost

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Speaker 2: uncanny versatility, and he said it like that, and so

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Speaker 2: he's got that praise just ringing in his ears. He

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Speaker 2: goes to Berlin to make his fortune and his fame,

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Speaker 2: but it didn't work out that. Ah. He it's a

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Speaker 2: long way to the top if you want a rock

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Speaker 2: and roll buddy.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, many steps to get there exactly.

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Speaker 2: So he transitioned media. He went from painting on canvas

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Speaker 2: to dropping canvas in order to paint walls. The boy

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Speaker 2: became a house painter.

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Speaker 3: Oh you're trying to say dropping dropping canvas, That sounds

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Speaker 3: like house painting. He got that real painting. I was

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Speaker 3: just doing some shop talk because look, it's not only beautiful,

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Speaker 3: but it's also effective. It seals in the house or

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Speaker 3: beautiful the walls, but also it's beautiful. Exactly what do

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Speaker 3: you do for a living the beautify the world?

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Speaker 2: Exactly be proud. In Berlin, where he was, there's this

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Speaker 2: guy named Dietrich Faye, and he was the son of

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Speaker 2: Professor Ernst Fay.

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Speaker 3: These people, no, okay.

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Speaker 2: And Ernst Fay was for those of us who are cultured,

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Speaker 2: so you wouldn't know, not me. He was a well

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Speaker 2: known art historian and restore and Professor Fay kind of

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Speaker 2: hitched his wagonto the Nazis, oh choice, especially the ones

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Speaker 2: who thought of themselves as total art connoisseurs.

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Speaker 3: Oh art, these.

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Speaker 2: Clowns such as Luftwaffe Commander in chief Hermann Goring.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he had a huge stolen collection. Oh yeah, and

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Speaker 3: so like the biggest in the world.

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Speaker 2: I think Fay just like pals around with him. Fay

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Speaker 2: and his son, Dietrich, they went around and they restored

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Speaker 2: paintings and churches, and the professor taught his son the

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Speaker 2: intricacies of fresco restoration, and Dietrich he was like, really good,

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Speaker 2: that's one.

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Speaker 3: Of your favorites. Fresco restoration people who messed it up.

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Speaker 2: Though totally we're good. Yeah, we'll talk about.

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Speaker 3: That, okay.

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Speaker 2: So Dietrich, he's like super good at schmoozing clients and

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Speaker 2: like greasing government wheels.

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Speaker 3: Oh of course, not an artist.

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Speaker 2: He's terrible at the actual restoration.

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Speaker 3: Just crap. Meanwhile, Lothar's rollers instead. Yeah, no, it terrible.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, he's not the house Lothar, the house painter.

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Speaker 2: He's twenty four, he's looking for work. So he gets

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Speaker 2: hired by Professor Fay, not as a restorer, but to

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Speaker 2: whitewash the family home. So the professor, though it takes

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Speaker 2: a liking to Lothar, and he loans them all these

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Speaker 2: books on ecclesiastical art, okay, and it's just like, you

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Speaker 2: know what, you seem to have your act together more

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Speaker 2: than my son art. And so over time the Professor

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Speaker 2: taught Lothart what it was to restore a work, like

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Speaker 2: the whole craft.

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Speaker 3: It's like, would you like to be my surrogate son?

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Speaker 3: Basically I will teach you the guild training kind of.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, So nineteen thirty seven, Germany, the professor and

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Speaker 2: his son they get this huge contract to restore murals

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Speaker 2: in the Cathedral of Saint Peter in Schleswig, Schleswig.

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Speaker 3: Sure, sure, I believe you.

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Speaker 2: It is this huge project. So they needed help, so

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Speaker 2: they hired Lothar to help them, and they were tasked

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Speaker 2: with removing some like inauthentic editions that had been added

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Speaker 2: to the medieval pieces. So in eighteen eighty eight, this guy,

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Speaker 2: August Albert's he comes in. He's hired to like bring

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Speaker 2: the old murals back to life. He got a little

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Speaker 2: too into it, Okay, So the earliest images on the

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Speaker 2: wall of the cathedral were actually first painted around thirteen hundred, huh,

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Speaker 2: and over the centuries damp set in, for sure. So

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Speaker 2: they hired August Olbers in the eighteen eighties to like

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Speaker 2: go and like, you know.

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Speaker 3: Freshen it up.

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Speaker 2: He took some liberties and at the time everyone thought

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Speaker 2: it was fantastic. Like, so he took a bad blurry

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Speaker 2: image and he would paint over it to look like

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Speaker 2: he figured the original artist intended.

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Speaker 3: Oh and there's no living memory of the actual painting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And anything that he couldn't make out he made up.

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Speaker 3: Yes, everybody had just been living with the hazy Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that's.

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Speaker 2: How restoration was done then too, So by the time

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Speaker 2: loath are so, yeah, that looks right, and so loath

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Speaker 2: art comes on the scene and that's just not true anymore.

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Speaker 2: So by the thirties, people realize you can't trample on

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Speaker 2: the original work. You have to just like Learnt crud Off, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: to let the paint sing through. And so this is

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Speaker 2: totally calling to mind as you referenced one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite works of art, the fresco of Jesus in the

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Speaker 2: Spanish church that the lady painted over to quote fix

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Speaker 2: it made horrible. Yeah, I had a T shirt with it.

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Speaker 2: Happened to that shirt. It was horrible and awesome.

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Speaker 3: I bet an intern ticket. It's so awesome. Probably one

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Speaker 3: of the one of the hairy ones, the dogs.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go looking through their closets. So Olbers,

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Speaker 2: he didn't deface the walls like that. He just broke

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Speaker 2: the new orthodoxy established by Cologne art historian Auto H.

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Speaker 2: Forster quote there must be no l of addition, completion,

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Speaker 2: or other conjectured reconstruction of any supposed original state. So

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Speaker 2: Olbers is like check, check, and check. Oh, I'm not

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Speaker 2: supposed to do those things. So now, Professor Fay and

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Speaker 2: his company. They've come in. They have to restore that

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Speaker 2: Undo Ober, Yeah, Undo Olbers. And when they started the project,

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Speaker 2: it pretty much scraped away all of the paint laid

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Speaker 2: down by Olbers.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you, I just has a house painter.

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Speaker 3: Unpainting is your least favorite thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so they're trying to take Olbers off,

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Speaker 2: but they're taking even more stuff.

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult, it's really and they have.

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Speaker 2: To work with what they have, the notes from the

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Speaker 2: eighteen eighties. So he has to restore a blank wall now.

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Speaker 2: And so the phase decided they were going to have

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Speaker 2: Lothar repaint the murals from scratch and pretend they were restorations.

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Speaker 2: So Lothar whitewashed the brick and then he like discolored

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Speaker 2: the line that he used with pigment to get it

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Speaker 2: that like lived in ancient Terror. Then he freehanded his

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Speaker 2: own version of the murals based on Olber's restorations, and

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Speaker 2: he looked at medieval examples to try and fill in

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Speaker 2: any blanks, and he drew the figures in earth tones

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Speaker 2: and like went all in on the medieval style. But

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Speaker 2: he also made a bunch of anachronistic errors on purpose.

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Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, Like the big one is that he

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Speaker 2: included turkeys in one of the corn tomatoes, and like

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Speaker 2: turkeys weren't known of in fourteenth century years.

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Speaker 3: None of those potatoes they world.

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Speaker 2: He also modeled the virtue Mary's face after Hanseik, Austrian

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Speaker 2: movie star, and he painted his father as a prophet.

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Speaker 2: And he used an old classmate as the inspiration for

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Speaker 2: the face of Christ. That's an honor. And when he

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Speaker 2: was done, the professor swooped in Fay and he just

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Speaker 2: rubbed a brick over the entire thing to give it

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Speaker 2: like wear and tear patina.

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Speaker 3: Did he have like a fishmonger? Who was the face

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Speaker 3: of Mary? I mean, like how deep did it go?

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Speaker 2: It goes deep? And people loved it. They're like, this

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Speaker 2: is gorgeous. An art historian at the University of bond

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Speaker 2: Fell by the name of Alfred Staunch, he just gushed

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Speaker 2: about Professor Fay and the restoration work said it was

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Speaker 2: quote as restrained as it was careful, and he said

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Speaker 2: it was the quote last deepest final word in German art.

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Speaker 2: Like this guy got sensual with it, s all about it.

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Speaker 2: But he also.

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Speaker 3: Didn't realize he was putting all of his name on

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Speaker 3: this too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well he had. He thought that the art had

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Speaker 2: another use. He wanted the government to use the murals

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Speaker 2: to promote Third Reich nationalism.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's right, German art the last word.

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Speaker 2: He thought the murals would be right up their alley

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Speaker 2: because first of all, the figures conformed to their stereotypes,

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Speaker 2: the blond and like the purity of the German. Yeah. Sure,

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Speaker 2: Lothar said in an interview later quote, I had to

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Speaker 2: paint the apostles as longheaded vikings because one did not

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Speaker 2: want Eastern roundheads. Okay, right, wow, But then there's the turkeys.

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Speaker 3: So do the Nazis really know that they're talking about

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Speaker 3: a Jewish guy in like the like not the Nazi

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Speaker 3: pass Like? Are they just skipping past that? Are they

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Speaker 3: trying to pretend like the Jesus, the Jesus is not Jewish,

255
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Speaker 3: the Disciples are not Jewish fishermen.

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Speaker 2: I can't explain the disconnects.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I was just wondering if they were, Like, Also,

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Speaker 3: by the way, can we make everyone blonde in the picture?

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Speaker 2: Everyone comes from here?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 2: So okay, so then we got the turkeys, sure, and

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Speaker 2: there are eight turkeys in the Mural.

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Speaker 3: And twelve disciples.

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Speaker 2: Independent historian named Freer Kai. Sherman Hompkins I know, pointed

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Speaker 2: out that the turkeys were introduced to Europe by the

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Speaker 2: Spaniards in the fifteen fifties, so like, how are they

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Speaker 2: in this painting? The paintings had been given the okay

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Speaker 2: by the Nazis. Himmler himself had attested to their value.

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Speaker 2: So Sherman Hompkins, he couldn't question the authenticity without questioning

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Speaker 2: the Nazis. So he did like a good fascist, and

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Speaker 2: he questioned history itself. He decided that the paintings were

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Speaker 2: proof that the Vikings had discovered America.

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Speaker 3: I knew.

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Speaker 2: And then they brought the turkeys back with of course,

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Speaker 2: and people bought into this, so of course.

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Speaker 3: That makes the most sense.

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Speaker 2: And it was already like a big Nazi talking point

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Speaker 2: that supposedly the German explorer Diedrich Pining had reached America

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Speaker 2: in fourteen seventy three.

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Speaker 3: They're not even going with like Leif Ericksson in history, well.

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Speaker 2: No, because then they're like, oh wait a second, this

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Speaker 2: just proves the Vikings had actually been there earlier, because

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Speaker 2: this is from the thirteen hundreds, and they brought not

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Speaker 2: fourteen seventy three, they brought the turkeys to Germany so

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Speaker 2: a dude could paint them on the walls of a

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Speaker 2: church and that was just fantastic, and that meant that

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Speaker 2: the Germans could then further cement their Viking pedigree.

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Speaker 3: Of course, really just drive home.

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Speaker 2: That Teutonics premisy. So the turkeys existing in early medieval

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Speaker 2: Germany became a part of Nazi cannon. What yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it got integrated into their propaganda. So a guidebook for

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Speaker 2: the church said, quote Arian seafarers went to America long

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Speaker 2: before Columbus did. Incidentally, Columbus is the descendant of Spanish

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Speaker 2: Jews from Barcelona. Like wow, people are disgusting, so gross. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so about Columbus, right, I mean you got I can

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Speaker 2: say a lot about Columbus, but like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, irrelevant. I find small mind and is funny sometimes,

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Speaker 3: so I can laugh at a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: The turkeys. The turkeys were painted in the eighteen eighties

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Speaker 2: by August Olbers, because that's when he was like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know what.

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Speaker 3: Goes in there to paint feet, And then after the.

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Speaker 2: Mural was unveiled in the nineteen thirties, eighty year old

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Speaker 2: Olbers comes forward and it's like, the mural is not

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Speaker 2: proof that the Vikings discovered America because I painted those

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Speaker 2: jive turkeys in the eighteen eighties, like he confesses. And

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Speaker 2: he's like, I wasn't trying to pull a fast one.

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't figure there was a big empty spot.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what to put in there.

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Speaker 3: Is doing this publicly to the authorities.

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Speaker 2: Publicly, oh wow, and to the like everybody. And he's like,

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave a bear spot. I paint turkeys.

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Speaker 2: I'm really good at painting turkeys.

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Speaker 3: I love the gobblers.

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Speaker 2: He put a bunch of foxes, and he put four turkeys,

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Speaker 2: and they were supposed to symbolize the guile and gluttony

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Speaker 2: of King Herod.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: So then Lothar he sees the turkeys, he's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: these are original. I guess what does he know from turkeys?

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Speaker 2: You know, who knows where they came from? They're just

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Speaker 2: delicious whatever. But remember I said there were eight in

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Speaker 2: the mural. Let's got Olbers only painted four of them.

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Speaker 2: Lothar liked how they looked, and he really liked painting turkeys.

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Speaker 2: This is good at it, so he doubled up.

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Speaker 3: On it and they're so fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, nobody, thank you.

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Speaker 3: I did you know? You did celebrity pressions and animals?

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Speaker 2: Everybody it's me But okay, nobody listened to Olbers. Right,

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Speaker 2: So the old guy, they're like, you're senile, you don't

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Speaker 2: remember anything you see sad go away.

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Speaker 3: He's like, I did it. They're like no, yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: The Vikings sit down, grandpa, we have to talk about.

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Speaker 2: It was too important to the third Yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: the Viking legend and the Turkeys live on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So the war, there was a war.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard about it.

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Speaker 3: Oh right, right right.

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Speaker 2: Loth Ars survived the war, but he couldn't get a job.

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Speaker 2: He had no money.

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Speaker 3: Was in the war.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. He tried to make it as an artist,

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Speaker 2: and that by that I mean he painted erotic pinups

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Speaker 2: that he sold on the streets of Hamburg.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so by the summer of forty five erotic pinups. Yeah,

348
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Speaker 2: summer forty five, totally broke, totally starving. He goes to

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Speaker 2: the phase to ask for.

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Speaker 3: What, how terrible is it that there you are? And

351
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Speaker 3: this specifically as a straight man who's broke, penniless hoping

352
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Speaker 3: to like get something, and they have to just stare

353
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Speaker 3: at like a beautiful woman who's half naked all day

354
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Speaker 3: while you're trying to paint this thing. It's like for

355
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Speaker 3: that guy, I mean, what a temptation of like, I'm

356
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,919
Speaker 3: never doing anything like this. Oh god, terrible.

357
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Speaker 2: Anyway, I don't feel bad for him anyway. So he

358
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 2: goes to the phase looking for work. Professor Ernst died

359
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 2: in the war and so, and there weren't like a

360
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 2: whole lot of paying restoration projects going on. But Dietrich

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Speaker 2: the sun live and large.

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Speaker 3: So that wasn't big on the Marshall plan.

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Speaker 2: Huh well, I mean that didn't. That was you look

364
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 2: at like a few years later and you'll see shows that. Okay, yeah,

365
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,479
Speaker 2: so Dietrich he's like wearing these like beautiful suits and

366
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Speaker 2: smoking expensive cigarettes just like he had before, and he's like,

367
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Speaker 2: Lothar aw high are you? And you can even move

368
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Speaker 2: into my servants quarters, thank you? But this is there's

369
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,879
Speaker 2: no restoration work there. What's the there's work, there's art forgeries. Ah,

370
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 2: so the economy is in the toilet, but there's still

371
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Speaker 2: plenty of buyers, you know, on this black market.

372
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 3: And all this art that's been liberated.

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Speaker 2: Cash means nothing. People are trading in cigarettes. And they

374
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Speaker 2: also they protect their savings by buying things with lasting

375
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 2: value like art.

376
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,480
Speaker 3: It's like the loose diamonds events.

377
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so most of the new collectors are inexperienced with it.

378
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 2: They just want to lock their money into a solid

379
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: piece of art. Most of the high value paintings had

380
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 2: been looted from foreign museums or seized from Jewish collectors

381
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 2: and families, which meant that like no one was asking

382
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 2: any questions about provenans lips zipped. So the collectors, they

383
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 2: figured someone else's bad luck, as they're a good fortune.

384
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 2: They're just lovely people. Collectors. They figured the art had

385
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 2: to be real with all the hush hush and all.

386
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 3: That's the thing.

387
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the ones who had their doubts about the

388
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,399
Speaker 2: authenticity just kind of like push it out of their minds.

389
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 2: They're just trying to survive. So Fee gave Loathar some canvasses,

390
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 2: some paints, and then a list of names Rembrandt, Shegal, Picasso. Orders.

391
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 2: They're coming in fast and furious from Munich, Frankfurt and

392
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,200
Speaker 2: Lothar really had to like bust Rump to keep up.

393
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,679
Speaker 2: He said, quote, sometimes I copied an old painting in

394
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Speaker 2: a day. It took me an hour to do a Picasso.

395
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 2: But what I like best was to do new paintings

396
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,439
Speaker 2: in the style of the French Impressionists. He had a

397
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 2: catalog of more than seventy artists whose work and or

398
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 2: style he copied.

399
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 3: There's the catalog for black market buyers to then sell

400
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 3: to annoying people.

401
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 2: Yea. And then he turned out in this time, he

402
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 2: turned out six hundred oils and watercolors, and he was

403
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: making Dietrich Fay a lot of money. But he was

404
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 2: so let's hang that on the wall. Okay, when we

405
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 2: come back, we're going to talk more art fraud.

406
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Elizabeth Saren, Okay, I want to hear more story.

407
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:51,479
Speaker 3: Come on back up.

408
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 2: I'm ready. When I left off Lowthar Malscott, he's making.

409
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm trying to be professional. Go on.

410
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: He was making fakean famous works of art for Dietrich Fay,

411
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,360
Speaker 2: the son of his former boss. And he's painting. He's

412
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 2: at a breakneck speech day, sometimes multiple and he was

413
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 2: painting so many so quickly that a lot of times

414
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: the quality left a lot to be desired.

415
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 3: I had to wonder.

416
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was this dealer in Frankfurt who showed one

417
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,959
Speaker 2: of the chagalls to Chagall himself. Now, like Mark, Chagall

418
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: was notoriously bad at detecting his his on counter. Yeah,

419
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: and so this time though, he takes one look at

420
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 2: it and just rips it up with his bare hands.

421
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 3: Oh.

422
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, well, it doesn't matter. The dealer is like,

423
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: I can get another one, super easy, and he makes

424
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 2: a mental note not to show show Chagall the paintings

425
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 2: that again. Yeah, so the art forgery business is going well.

426
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,479
Speaker 3: But then Dietrich I like that the art road has

427
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 3: always been the same.

428
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: Always, always. Dietrich, though, he comes to Lothar with a

429
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: new gig. So back on March twenty ninth, nineteen forty two,

430
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: so we're going back in time, back in the war. Yeah,

431
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: it was Palm in time is Palm Sunday. The Allied

432
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 2: forces used almost two hundred and thirty four planes and

433
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: three hundred tons of bombs to pretty much level the

434
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 2: German city of Lubek Gonzers. Everything burned, including Saint Mary's Church,

435
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 2: which was also you know known to them as Marion Kerch.

436
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: So the Churchill he was like directing the bombers to

437
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: just wreck shop on the towns in Germany and break

438
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: everyone's will.

439
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 3: And you see it with like Dresden, the producer Di

440
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: and I were watching Masters of Air. We're into this,

441
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 3: I know.

442
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 2: I figured you'd like that. So thelwa they retaliated what

443
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: was with what was called the bey Decker Blitz, and

444
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: they said they would lay waste to every town that

445
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: had a three star rating in bay Decker's Guide to

446
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: Great Britain.

447
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: Are you kidding No?

448
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 2: Are you kidding you?

449
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: That's serious.

450
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

451
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 3: So they basically used like the Michelin star.

452
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: All your cool stuff. Howd that work out?

453
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 3: How about that?

454
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: So anyway, Lubeck, the heat from the fires your bombing campaign.

455
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 2: It was pretty smart.

456
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 3: It's funny and.

457
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 2: It's funny, but it's also the heat from the fires

458
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 2: from the bombing. Yeah, they made the plaster peel off

459
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 2: the church walls. The plaster, the plaster and then these

460
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: Gothic frescoes that were previously hidden since the church's construction

461
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 2: were revealed.

462
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they just basically bubbled up the plaster.

463
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the paint peels away, plaster peels away, and underneath

464
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: is another layer with these beautiful but weathered frescoes. And

465
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: so this this is this like sign of hope, and

466
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: people are calling it a miracle of Marion Cash. Church

467
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 2: officials they put makeshift roofs over the frescoes to protect

468
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 2: them from the.

469
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: Elements restoration work.

470
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: But they're like, we can't do it right now because

471
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: we're in the middle some So then so now we're

472
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: going to jump forward. We're going to jump forward to

473
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 2: nineteen forty K. So the government and church authorities they

474
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 2: approached Dietrich and they say, we're going to pay you

475
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: eighty eight thousand German marks to fix the frescoes, and

476
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: like this wasn't a one hundred percent popular decision. In

477
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: this sealed report filed with the provincial Culture Ministry, the

478
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 2: Schleswig Holstein state curator Peter Hirschfeld, yeah totally sure, wrote

479
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 2: quote the restoration of defective medieval mural paintings is, in

480
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: the last analysis, a question of trust. Dietrich Fay will

481
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: not guarantee that he has never done any overpainting in

482
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: an unguarded moment, I therefore declare that I disassociate myself

483
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 2: from the working methods of the restore Dietrich Fay, I

484
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: decline all further RESI reponsibility. Yeah, whatever. The church is like,

485
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 2: we want, Fay. They wanted the attention that those turkeys

486
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: got so lubak. Bishop Johannes Poka told them, quote, paint

487
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: out the church beautifully.

488
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 4: I just like, go for it.

489
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: Did people ever sort out the whole like Vikings didn't

490
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 3: really get to do. Are they still going with that?

491
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 2: At this point? They're like that that's what happened. These

492
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: are Viking turkeys, and they're bold, strong, big busted Viking turkeys.

493
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 3: They're so brave.

494
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: The chief architects at the church, doctor Bruno friedric I, can't.

495
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: He told Dietrich and lowth Art to quote preserve the

496
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: religious impression, and he reminded them that we don't want

497
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: a museum. So with the contract in place, it's time

498
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: to get to work. Maybe this would be a legit job,

499
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 2: like a chance to really use the skills that Professor

500
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: Fay had taught him about restoration and preserv he learned

501
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: from the master Zarin closure eyes. Yes, I want you

502
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: to picture it. You are a stonemason hired to rebuild

503
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: and repair Marian Kirch to its former glory. Instead of

504
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: asking you where you were in the war, I'm just

505
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 2: going to say that you are eighteen years old and

506
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: have just moved to Germany for whatever reason, just six

507
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 2: months ago. Basically, you've never been a member of the

508
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: Nazi Party or aligned with them in any way. You're wolcome.

509
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: So there you are sitting on some scaffolding, assessing the

510
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: state of some joining in the nave. A painter, some

511
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: guy assisting the fancy dude who got the restoration contract

512
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: climbs the seventy foot scaffolding next two years, the one

513
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: that reaches all the way to the ceiling. There's not

514
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: much light in here, so you can't see too well

515
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: what he's about to go. Check out the frescoes, the miracles.

516
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: You've heard about them, and you realize that when the

517
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: guy shines his lantern up there, you'll finally be able

518
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: to see them. Scaffolding creaks is the man Lothar malscat

519
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: raises his lantern to the frescoes. Someone hammers in the distance,

520
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 2: some engineers chat far below you. Above you, though the

521
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 2: ceiling is now illuminated with soft light, revealing nothing really,

522
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: just the faintest of outlines. Loathar blows on the surface,

523
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 2: hoping to move some dust and reveal a masterpiece. Instead,

524
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: what paint that is there sweeps off the ceiling and

525
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: reins down onto you on your perch. You cough and

526
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: wave the dust away with your hand. Lothar looks down

527
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: at you, crestfallen, you lock eyes. He places his index

528
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: finger to his lips. Sh you get it, this didn't happen.

529
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: There's no miracle. You realize, well, it's a miracle. You

530
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: have a job, So you're just gonna keep your mouth

531
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: shut and get on with your work. Been there s

532
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: so Dietrich and Lothar they put up barriers to keep

533
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: people out of the nave, and they hung all these

534
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: warning signs of like danger overhead. Basically stay out and

535
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 2: don't look up, because you know, it's like they you

536
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: couldn't really protect what had been revealed from the elements

537
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: in those three years or whatever. So then loth Aar,

538
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: he's got this assistant, Theo, and Lothar and Theo they

539
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: hang huge wooden panels to conceal their work.

540
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 3: And they had they had to work, and Theo has

541
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: a brother named Vincent.

542
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: They couldn't walk away from this contract, you know, because

543
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 2: it's like everyone's trying just to make ends meet, and

544
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: he got a giganic contract. So Theo and Lothar they

545
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: scrubbed the walls and they primed the bare brick, and

546
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: then Lothar got to work creating the apostles and the

547
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: saints that he could like barely make out before the

548
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: dusty paint had blown away, and he used really bold

549
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: lines and bright colors. He's like, this is a miracle,

550
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: and he hauled tail like he did with his face.

551
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: So he worked quickly a little too quickly, and what

552
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: would take a real restore months took him just days.

553
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: And tearing through things two years later.

554
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: But what chemicals you use that work two years later?

555
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: He's done. The whole thing is nineteen fifty, way ahead

556
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: of schedule. He had finished all the murals in the nave,

557
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: and the completion was timed like to coincide with the

558
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: seven hundredth anniversary of the church the next year, so

559
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: they had to stall. So Dietrich put up scaffolding in

560
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: the choir and told Lothar to go discover some more murals.

561
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: There are no murals in there at all. There never

562
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: were like nothing even slightly to work with. So loth

563
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: Are he's just like hitting the books, cramming. He's reading

564
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: about art from the Middle Ages, and like once again

565
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: he uses his own models, like his dad shows up

566
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: in there. That Hansey the actress, she's up in there,

567
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: he throws res buttan In is like a bearded king.

568
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 2: Why not, to quote Jonathan Keats writing for Forbes, quote

569
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: he painted in local laborers as monks, trade himself as

570
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: a patriarch. Within months, the walls of the choir were

571
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: resplendent with art. Twenty one Gothic figures stood ten feet

572
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: in height, embellished with friezes of animals and flowers. The

573
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: Marian Kirsch Miracle had a surprise post war sequel.

574
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: The Terracotta Warriors, that all had individual like soldiers they

575
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 3: were based on He's just looking around.

576
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, you're you there, the mason you showed up.

577
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: You happened to look like one of the shepherds.

578
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: So like Lothar and Dietrich, they fought all the time. Yeah,

579
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: and Dietrich. Dietrich was only paying Lothart one hundred and

580
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: ten marks a week out of that eighty eight thousands the.

581
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: Cash.

582
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so Dietrich would remind Lothar all the time, look,

583
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: you're just an assistant. You're nobody special here. You hold

584
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: a bas get up there and pay your mural.

585
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 3: I got a monkey, and he was like.

586
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: You know something, uh, Lothar, the city of Lubec hired me,

587
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: Dietrich Fay to bring this church back to its glory.

588
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: They didn't hire you.

589
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: You know who discovers the work around here.

590
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: So the low pay hurt, but it was the disrespect

591
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: and the lack of acknowledgment that hurt more for Lothar,

592
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: Like he loved these paintings. They're his, like literally he

593
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: even started marking some of the figures with his initials,

594
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: like those days are mind and he wrote at one

595
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: point he wrote on the wall, all paintings in this

596
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: church are by Lothar Maltska. And like Dietrich sees it

597
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: freaks out like goes and paints over it, just scrupture.

598
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 3: It doesn't even do it like in like weird laugh,

599
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: like he's just literally.

600
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: Lobarto German font totally in the old German script. So

601
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: one day this doctoral student shows up Johanna Kolbe. She

602
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: scales the scaffolding like no one was really going up there,

603
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: and what she saw was shocking, like super thick paint,

604
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: and Mary Magdalene was running around barefoot. So she goes

605
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: to the local town government to complain and blow the

606
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: whistle boo. Dietrich was like, you know what, she's a liar.

607
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 2: You can't look at her. She looks like a liar,

608
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: and the officials are like, you know what, You're totally right, Teatrick.

609
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: She's probably just confused. So they ignored her. Really, they

610
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 2: dismissed her. And the experts they're elated with this, like

611
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 2: supposedly these newly discovered.

612
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 3: Murals more German history.

613
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: On the walls, the Lubek Museum director Hans Arnold Grobkok wrote, quote,

614
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: ideas hitherto current as to the original aspect of Gothic

615
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: brick interiors will have to be revised in light of

616
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: the merits of the works here recovered.

617
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: History been written.

618
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: Uh huh Art historian Hans Jurgen Hansen he wrote, quote,

619
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: they exhibit a severe style, Byzantine influenced and still almost Romanesque,

620
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: and then he contrasted them with the ones in the nave,

621
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: which he found quote more animated, softer, entirely Gothic. So

622
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: he's like, they're amazing, They're totally different. I can't believe

623
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: in the arientime, Like wow, that Peter Hirschfeld wanted nothing

624
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: to do with it. All of a sudden, he calls

625
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: the murals quote the most important and extensive ever disclosed

626
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: in Germany. In fact, one of the finest intact frescoes

627
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, extant through Western Europe.

628
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: So he just wanted to get on like the art

629
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: shows and talk about it. He's like, let me talk

630
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: on the show. So, guys, there were photos.

631
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: From nineteen forty two when the outer paint first peeled

632
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: away and the paintings were revealed, And if anyone had

633
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: cared to look at those photos, anyone other than that

634
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: grad student, they would have seen that some of the

635
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: saints had moved and that Mary Magdalene had indeed lost

636
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: her shoes. She had no sandals on where she had

637
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: sandals on before.

638
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: Okay, whatever, they're like, is that major ly significant?

639
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean what happened, Like did they get blown

640
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: off in the war? Where did her shoes go, well, you.

641
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: Know after the war they wanted a lot more barefoot home,

642
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 3: like you know, taking care of the kids.

643
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: He just like loathers like I'm not really good at

644
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: painting sandals.

645
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: Yea. So Mary Magdalene was she like a big figure,

646
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: like I mean like figure well making. The French they

647
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: love Mary Magdalene? So is she also big?

648
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: She's ever seen their painting like you know, this crowd

649
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: hanging out, she'd normally be their usual suspect.

650
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 4: On So.

651
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: Nineteen fifty one, the restored Church, they have the big

652
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: seven hundredth anniversary. The everyone's like yeah, high five and

653
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: skipping around. West German Chancellor Conrad Adenauer said, that's East

654
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 2: Erbund mine headn. I don't know whatever. It's uplifting, gentlemen.

655
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: I didn't say it right, but that's.

656
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 3: East I think taking us up, gentlemen.

657
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 2: So he said the murals were quote a valuable treasure

658
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 2: and a fabulous discovery of lost masterpieces.

659
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: Dude, what better way to celebrate your what Septis centennial.

660
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 2: Than with some art that's a farefoot Mary and so

661
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 2: the government they printed two million postage stands.

662
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: Does Peter have an afro in this?

663
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: That would not be allow. So the two million postage

664
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: stamps are printed with reproductions of the murals on them.

665
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: And this is like rebuilt Germany. This is Phoenix from

666
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: the ashes the thunder, so wonder okay. Time magazine said

667
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: the paintings were quote a major artistic fine and told

668
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: readers that quote the interior of the Marian Kirch looks

669
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: more as its original decorators intended than it has for

670
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: five hundred years. So in the months following this grand reopening,

671
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand people came through to take a peep.

672
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: The town loved the attention, but they really really loved

673
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: the tourist money coming in. Everyone partied and celebrated the murals.

674
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: Dietrich like soaked up the adoration that the chancellor gave

675
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: him an extra one hundred and fifty thousand marks for

676
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: a job well done. Yeah, almost twice what the contract was.

677
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 3: And the townsound a lot of pretzels and beers, so

678
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: they're all still happy with it.

679
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: Then they also Dietrich gets a job. He's offered a

680
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: job as a university professor in Bond And then you

681
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: got Lothar forgot the parties, always getting the short end

682
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 2: of the still kind of broke. So he kept working

683
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: for Dietrich, but like he's getting more and more bitter.

684
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: I imagine, Yeah, he'd like stew over it. And they

685
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: work on you know, he and THEO, they're working on

686
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 2: these small projects for Dietrich. He just is chewing Theo's

687
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: ear off, nagging about it.

688
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 3: Can you imagine that?

689
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like he's like THEO, I gotta get even,

690
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 2: I want revenge, Like I'm the real talent here.

691
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 3: Joe Pesci and Casino.

692
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: Completely anyway, So they sit there like Lothar is complaining,

693
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 2: but like they just keep working for him, and the

694
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: work they're doing is lining Dietrich's pockets. Let's go to commercial.

695
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 2: I'm about to hit you with some ads when we

696
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: come back. More moping Lothar.

697
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 4: Hey we are back, look at us.

698
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: Hey, how you doing this?

699
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 4: Guy?

700
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: Loth Ar mallscut.

701
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 3: I'm trying to like it, you know, I love him,

702
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 3: Maybe I feel bad for him. Him and THEO down

703
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 3: there grouse and making the fakes.

704
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: Faking it until he's making it. He's not making it,

705
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: creating lost masterpieces.

706
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 3: He's rallying the people. Yeah, he's doing that. He's raising

707
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 3: some bacon only.

708
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: No one knows about all the stuff that he's doing.

709
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: But that's about to change.

710
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 3: Trying, it's about to change.

711
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: May ninth, nineteen fifty two. Great May Lothar just gathers

712
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 2: up his courage strolls into the police station. He tells

713
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 2: them the Marian Kirch murals are fakes. I'm here to

714
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: tell you.

715
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: Is he sober?

716
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: He's totally sober. Dietrich Fay made him paint them. He's

717
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: like this, he made me do it. The whole thing's

718
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: a con. You all have been swindled by by Faye,

719
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: by Dietrick Faye and me, and we've all been cheated.

720
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 2: Everyone's shocked. They immediately put out a warrant for Dietrich's arrest,

721
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 2: and then they cut Lowthar a check for five hundred

722
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: thousand marks. Are you kidding, I'm totally kidding you.

723
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 3: That is not what happened. Okay, No, nobody believed him,

724
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: say this does not follow. He gets arrested right, tossed.

725
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: Him out, and they told a local newspaper that quote,

726
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: this is the lamentable case of a painter gone crazy.

727
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they're like, he's huff there's an expression. My friends,

728
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 3: Derek His German mother used to always say, it's about

729
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: the turpentine to mock and it makes a turpentine makes

730
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 3: a painter crazy.

731
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: Oh really German expression, That's probably what people used all

732
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: the time. That's probably what they said.

733
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: Like their version is mad as a hatter.

734
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that's what they said. They've been he's

735
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: been huffing. So people, they wanted him tossed into an

736
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: insane asylum for even suggesting such a thing. Not not

737
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: the soul asylum, like a runaway trains are an insane assylum.

738
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,439
Speaker 2: I prefer the first, the oversized sweater and the white

739
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: dreads and the piercing Come on, Sarah, So did they

740
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: at least go look at the murals? Did they know

741
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: it's too high up? Man? Did they look at the

742
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: actual pictures that are yeah? How about no? No, no,

743
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: But the pictures that loath Are took with him to

744
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 2: the police station, that he himself took with his own camera,

745
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 2: that detailed the entire process from oh crap, the original

746
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: paint isn't even there to uh, let's just do a

747
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 2: clean slate to toda.

748
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 3: So they just were willfully ignored. They're like, do not

749
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 3: mess up our backs please, we have finally secured the

750
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: bag for the town.

751
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: Put those photos away. I'm not looking. They're turning their heads,

752
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: like put them away. Put them away?

753
00:39:58,880 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 3: Uh?

754
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: So loath are big. He went to the national media.

755
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: Oh and he made the rounds. He did interviews, He

756
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: pointed out all his like inside jokes and the differences

757
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: from the original.

758
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 3: To Spiegel around where's Spiegel around here?

759
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 2: And then the city of Lubec issued an official statement quote,

760
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 2: rumors and accusations against the renowned art expert doctor Fay

761
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: are of no consequence and purely malicious gossip.

762
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: This is so unexpectedly un German, right, the whole not

763
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: caring about the precision and the truth of Like this

764
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 3: is actually the thing. I mean, like, I know what.

765
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 3: They're humans too. I'm not trying to get on a

766
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 3: high horse about Germans, but as a culture, they tend

767
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 3: to really like things to be a little bit more.

768
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: Buy the book exactly.

769
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: So okay, thought Lothar, think, think, Lothar think, come on,

770
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 2: there's got to be something I can get to trick on. Yes,

771
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: the first church. Oh right, So it goes back to

772
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: the police station and he confessed to that pre war

773
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: phony Turkey restoration and that was the one that they

774
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 2: used to get all the future restoration contract starting. This

775
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: did not help. So now they're like, you know what,

776
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: you are a serious nutcase. You are super cuckoo. So

777
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 2: is there anything else that you're responsible for painting?

778
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 3: Now?

779
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: Are you a Viking?

780
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 3: Was?

781
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 2: Did you paint Assistine Chapel?

782
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 4: Do tell?

783
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: Like they're just brushing them off. Church officials issued a

784
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: statement quote, any charges at present being leveled at the

785
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: Restore Dietrich Fay are as yet insufficient to rouse our misgivings.

786
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: The work of preservation will therefore continue under the Restore

787
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: Dietrich Fay. Like they're like totally back in their boy

788
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: and I don't know why they talk like that.

789
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 3: This seems very un German too. This is another on German.

790
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: Nothing's adding up.

791
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 3: But only going makes sense is they want to keep

792
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 3: that tourist dollar rolling in.

793
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: That's the only thing. So loth are lawyered up good Man. Yeah.

794
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: He hires an attorney named Willie flot Wrongly Willy, I

795
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: don't know Willy flot wrong it was to say so

796
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 2: he's fills the beans to flat wrong about all the

797
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: fake restorations and the art forgeries that he did, right, yeah,

798
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 2: the Picassos, the renwas he had evidence there too. So

799
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: looking over all of the materials, the lawyer is like

800
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: thinking about it, and then Lothar's like, I got an idea,

801
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: why don't you file charges against Dietrich and me you

802
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: be the one to file him. Oh yeah, So then

803
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 2: the cops have to do something, and they did so

804
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: Flatrong goes to the police. Dietrich gets arrested and they

805
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: search his house and the cops find seven paintings and

806
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 2: twenty one drawings, all forgeries matist de go Chagall Beckmann.

807
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: And in various states of preparation.

808
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 2: I think they're all just completed.

809
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: Oh okay, like his little you know, gallery, his.

810
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 2: Own home stable. And so here's this like famous lauded

811
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 2: preservationist with a house full of fakes. The town and

812
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: the church. They got a group of experts together to

813
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 2: go and inspect the murals, like for realness. Time, climb

814
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: on up there, Hansil, like.

815
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 3: Business is real, bring your big ladder.

816
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: Yes. So in their October twentieth, nineteen fifty two report,

817
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 2: they said, quote, the twenty one figures in the choir

818
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: are not Gothic, but painted freehand by Malscat. The painting

819
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: described as old by the restoer Fay does not lie

820
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: on the medieval layer of mortar, but on a post

821
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 2: medieval layer. It cannot, for this reason alone, be considered original.

822
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: So finally, finally.

823
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 3: Like someone's like actually looking at the building.

824
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the same goes for the ones in the

825
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: nave repainted. The bishops are like, sure you should sure

826
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 2: the murals are fake and that if quote if the

827
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: restorer Dietrich Fay, has fraudulently succeeded in getting his work

828
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: recognized as faithful restoration. This was possible only because of

829
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 2: an extremely cunning deception which misled not only the church

830
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: administration as proprietor, but also curators and art experts.

831
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 3: The bishops are like, you know, God works in a

832
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 3: mist serious ways. I don't know what So.

833
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: Good you guys, we had no idea. The devil was

834
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: at work, boys.

835
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 3: One of them. I'm telling you this is supernatural.

836
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: For nearly a year, the prosecutor just conducts scores of

837
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 2: interviews just gathering this information. The questions brought the heat

838
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: so much so that the church superintendent requested earlier retirement,

839
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: and then another church official just up and moved to

840
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: East Germany. Yikes, he's like going the wrong way.

841
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 3: Over the wall. What are you doing here?

842
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: It is bad for me back, trust me on this.

843
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 3: You are the first person to this.

844
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: Okay, well here have like a gray up.

845
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, you know you can't kill

846
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: still be a priest here, right, He's like, I don't care.

847
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 2: Uh so that chief architect Bruno Fendrick, he was named

848
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: co defendant in the indictment and the phony restores are

849
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: on trial. But also like all the people that you

850
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: know threw the money at him. A local paper wrote, quote,

851
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: the real defendants are not the forgers, but the experts

852
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 2: and officials who failed to exercise proper care. They didn't

853
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: mind being deceived. Had Molscat not photographed the empty church

854
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 2: walls before he started painting his murals, the evidence would

855
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: have been suppressed by the very people who employed him.

856
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: They are as much to blame as the forgers themselves,

857
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: so at least they're kind of on that. And like

858
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 2: in case you couldn't guess, this trial was huge, huge,

859
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: hottest ticket in town. They moved it from the courthouse

860
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 2: to a dance hall where they do like swing dance

861
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: and like hey, daddi.

862
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 3: Oh, they got a band for the courtroom.

863
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 2: They had to accommodate all the people that wanted to

864
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 2: sit in the gallery. There still wasn't enough room even

865
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: with an occupancy number of four hundred, so they set

866
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: up chairs outside in the garden and they broadcasted the

867
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 2: trial on a loud speaker.

868
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 3: They go, like, schnitzel vendors walking through the nitzle was thick.

869
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: It was the oil in the air, and like pres oh,

870
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: my god, so much like large nugget salt on the pretzels.

871
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 3: Boy.

872
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: So August tenth, nineteen fifty four, the trial starts. Okay,

873
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 2: looth Are said that he confessed because quote, everybody raved

874
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: about my beautiful murals, yet Fay got all the credit.

875
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 2: Nobody even knew my name. So he's like, you, guys,

876
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: I'm an artist. I'm a genius. And then he said,

877
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: quote I love to do thirteenth century painting. Nothing to it.

878
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 3: So often when you have these art foragers, it comes

879
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: down to like, what about me, guys. I'm not supposed

880
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 3: to make all the money. I just want you guys

881
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 3: to say that I'm the prettiest painter.

882
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: There is so good at this, you guys, which it

883
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: always bums me out because they're great artists and he

884
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: has multiple skills. They can't do it on their own.

885
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 3: They had nothing to say.

886
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is exactly so. Even as he's like praising himself,

887
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 2: he starts ragging on the experts who got full quote.

888
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 3: It couldn't help himsel he is what he says.

889
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,479
Speaker 2: One art critic raved about the prophet with the magic eyes.

890
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 3: It was modeled on my father.

891
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: Another gushed about the spiritual beauty of the splendid figure

892
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: of Mary, so far removed from our present day image

893
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: of womanhood. For that painting, I used a photograph of Hansey.

894
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: No tech, not Hansey, one of my favorite models. To you, so, the.

895
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 2: Prosecutor asked, at a time when X ray apparatus, court slamps,

896
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: and the most modern technical equipment seemed to exclude the

897
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 2: possibility of large scale art forgeries, how could a second

898
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: rate painter have fooled the nation's leading experts? And there's

899
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: like that stings, But then he tells them, He tells

900
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: them quote, people like to be fooled today. We just

901
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 2: gave them what they wanted.

902
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly so.

903
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: January twenty sixth, nineteen fifty five a verdict. The judge said, quote,

904
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: although the ascertainable material damage done may not have been excessive,

905
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 2: it seriously endangered the restoration of Mary and Kersh as

906
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 2: a whole. The dishonest behavior of those engaged upon it

907
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: undermined confidence in the proper execution of all the reinstatement work. Then,

908
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 2: as Jonathan Keith wrote and Forbes quote, in other words,

909
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: the offense was not fundamentally a crime of property damage,

910
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 2: but rather the infringement was psychological robbery of faith, theft

911
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: of a miracle.

912
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 3: Totally, yeah, violation.

913
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: It's so beautifully put.

914
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 3: So the architects, thank you, ohamn, oh okay whatever.

915
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 2: Your assessment of a violation of faith was so writing this, yeah,

916
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: I think crying this isn't sweat because so hot stone

917
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: write this in Can I paint it on a fresco?

918
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: So the architects and then THEO they got slap THEO

919
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 2: they like they were like, you get out of here, YouTube,

920
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: just don't do this again. They're like, bye, guys. Dietrich

921
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: got twenty months in.

922
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 3: Prison, okay, almost two.

923
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: Years, and then Loath are eighteen months okay, yeah whatever.

924
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: After sentencing Lothar skipped out and went to Sweden. Never

925
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 2: catch me. He didn't Layloh there. So he goes and

926
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: he tries to make money by being infamous and like

927
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 2: he sold paintings. He did the interior of Stockholm's trick

928
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 2: Kroner restaurant in the fourteenth century Gothic style.

929
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 3: Painted he's now known for.

930
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, he busted out some turkey murals at the Royal

931
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 2: tennis courts. Let me give you a turkey, But that

932
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: didn't last long. He gets extradited back to Germany in

933
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: late nineteen fifty six, served his time, and then he

934
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: just for the next thirty two years until the end

935
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 2: of his life, just lived a quiet life, painted, did

936
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: his own little paintings.

937
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 3: Did he get to a place where he actually was

938
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: able to generate art?

939
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 2: Probably? I mean he was generating his own art.

940
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 3: Sure, But but did anybody enjoy it?

941
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: I don't know.

942
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 3: So he wasn't doing showings later on.

943
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 2: I think he just kind of faded out. What about

944
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:49,919
Speaker 2: the murals though?

945
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 3: Erin Elizabeth the murals?

946
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: Do you remember Peter Hirschfeld?

947
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: Do I?

948
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 2: Yeah?

949
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 3: Forget?

950
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: At first he's like no, girl, and then he's like

951
00:49:58,920 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 2: yes girl.

952
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now he's mad girl, so he's like super livid.

953
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 2: Has a plan, he said. Quote. The forgeries should first

954
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 2: be plastered over so as to obtain a clear surface

955
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: free from all theoretical preconception, and thus enable careful plans

956
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 2: to be laid for an ideal solution of the problem

957
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: by substituting true works of art for forgery, honesty for insincerity,

958
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: for consequent obliteration of the stain upon morality. It should

959
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: be considered the duty of any truly Christian community to

960
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: carry out this task. He makes it into a holy war.

961
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 3: He does.

962
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what happened to the choir murals Like

963
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 2: the frum scratch scratch workers covered it up. No one's

964
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: the wiser gone. But then the Nave art restorer Sep

965
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 2: Schuer explained quote the Nave forgeries were deliberately left as

966
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: they were. They constituted a sort of warning to all

967
00:50:54,600 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 2: concerned with art, either as amateurs or professionals. Detail there

968
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: so I'll leave you with this gem to ponder from

969
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 2: Jonathan Keats okay quote, the contradictory responses reflect our emotional

970
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: ambivalence toward a betrayal of trust, whether to obliterate or

971
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 2: to commemorate the offense. Yet whichever decision is made, the

972
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: sting of injury will pass and people will recover their belief.

973
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 2: According to the Lubeck entry in Rough Guided Germany, a

974
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: bay decker for the twenty first century, Gothic frescoes of

975
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: Christ and Saints add color to otherwise plain walls of

976
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: Marian Kirsch. The pastel images only resurfaced when a fire

977
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: caused by the nineteen forty two air raid licked away

978
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: the coat of whitewash. Malscat is not mentioned, nor is

979
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 2: his moral staying apparent in the church. For a new

980
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: generation of tourists, the murals are again miraculous, are they are? They?

981
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,720
Speaker 2: Says Aaron. What's your ridiculous takeaway? Thanks for asking?

982
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Malscat my man. Yeah, that lothar of

983
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,919
Speaker 3: them all people he deserves. I think like they should

984
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 3: make him another church, right, Like that's like all anachronistic,

985
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 3: Like the church is wrong, like part of it's Baroque,

986
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 3: part of it's like Byzantine. Then he gets to go

987
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 3: in there and paint it into something, just like lean

988
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 3: into it. And you know how many people would go

989
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 3: to see that freaky church? Yeah, see some things like

990
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 3: just that way, he'd have something to say to be

991
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 3: a whole joke. But the point being is, like it's

992
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 3: my takeaway, if you will, ridiculous as it is, is

993
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 3: he could actually do a bit on himself and have

994
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 3: people want to come out and see it and still

995
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 3: be referencing his whole like, hey, look when I got

996
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,959
Speaker 3: over on these people. Yeah, well you know, I guess

997
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 3: he got happy just going and living quietly. Sure, Elizabeth

998
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 3: does mine? I do? I do? I do.

999
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that they felt the need to

1000
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: maintain this history right then, you know, even even if

1001
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: in the face of the fact that there's nothing to

1002
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: work with, instead of saying, well, let's recreate, let's do

1003
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 2: a new one in the style of today, or borrowing

1004
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 2: from their styles, because the whole point is to celebrate,

1005
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: you know, the story of Christ right in this church.

1006
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 2: But really, the whole point of these elaborate things within

1007
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 2: churches is to celebrate the achievement of man on earth

1008
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 2: in the name of God.

1009
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, good point.

1010
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 2: So it's like, why wouldn't you say, here, here, we

1011
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: can have this achievement of what we can do now,

1012
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: this fascination with the past I mean I understand wanting

1013
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: to preserve, you know, something that's beautiful and enduring, but

1014
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 2: this wasn't enduring. And so it's either like try and

1015
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: totally fully reproduce it with an acknowledgment that it's a

1016
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 2: modern reproduction, or just do it anew But it doesn't

1017
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 2: make it any less of a miracle, you know what

1018
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like for something to stand and to persevere

1019
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:48,919
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah.

1020
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 3: Not in special but thirteen hundred yeah, no, I mean honestly,

1021
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 3: like they painted something, everyone's like, oh, this is the original. Yeah,

1022
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 3: we could no offense, do a nice painting here, and

1023
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 3: then one hundred years from now people be like this

1024
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 3: is I'm twenty or whatever.

1025
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,919
Speaker 2: Like Lofar who's really talented and he can do these things,

1026
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: and people look at it and they're moved. They have

1027
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 2: that emotional response, which is the point of the art

1028
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 2: to begin with. Like it's not to have a certain

1029
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 2: name on it or certain date, it's what what is

1030
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 2: the response to the art? How do you close that

1031
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: circle of communication.

1032
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 3: And humble yourself in time? Yes, like we could be

1033
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 3: meaningful to people one hundreds years from no, exactly, So

1034
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 3: I just be on that rone.

1035
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: So I say, let him go nuts in there.

1036
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 3: I love that. I love when you say let him

1037
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 3: go nuts.

1038
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 2: I want everyone to go nuts the summer of dark, Elizabeth,

1039
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: I'm telling you how to keep it nuts. Dave. You

1040
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: know what I need after all that, I need to

1041
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 2: talk back.

1042
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I let you.

1043
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 5: Hey, it's destrude and I just want to say, I

1044
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 5: listen to your Sophie Smith episode many times and I

1045
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 5: can't expect why, but it just tickles my brain cells.

1046
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 5: So thanks for everything.

1047
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that your brain cells are tickled. That's

1048
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: my goal.

1049
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 3: What's Elizabeth like? I'm like, well, what you likes to

1050
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 3: tickle brain cells?

1051
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 2: Astra? I am so pleased that you like Soapye, I

1052
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 2: love Sophie Smith. Wow, ma'am uh. That's it for today.

1053
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: You can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com.

1054
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: We're also at ridiculous Crime on Twitter and Instagram. Email

1055
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 2: us at ridiculous Crime at jamail dot com, and then,

1056
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: most importantly, download the iHeart app and leave us a

1057
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 2: talk back. Come on, man, you got plenty of room

1058
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 2: on your phone for another app reach out. Ridiculous Crime

1059
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 2: is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett, produced and

1060
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 2: edited by Saxon Turkey Farmer Dave Kusten, starring Annalise Rutger

1061
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 2: as Judith. Research is by Mary Magdalen's Shoe Plug, Marissa

1062
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: Brown and Andrea Song Sharp and Tear aka third Angel

1063
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 2: from the Left on the wall of the nave. The

1064
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: theme song is by unemployed Rick Rubber, Thomas Lee and

1065
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 2: Travis Dutton Muralist to the Stars. Host wardrobe is provided

1066
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 2: by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot

1067
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 2: and Mister Andre. Executive producers are Ben But what if

1068
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: the turkeys were native to Europe Bowlin and Noel, and

1069
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: then the Vikings took them to North America, Brown dus

1070
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 2: Quime Say It one More Times.

1071
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.

1072
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1073
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.