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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hi friends,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Work in Progress. You're a resident journalism school.

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Speaker 1: Girly has a guest today that has me just so

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Speaker 1: immensely excited. Today, I'm going to sit down with Don Lemon.

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Speaker 1: He is an award winning journalist, a best selling author,

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Speaker 1: and one of the most influential voices in American media.

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Speaker 1: I've always respected Don for his fearless storytelling. He's covered

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Speaker 1: pivotal historical moments and incredible shifts in society with such

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Speaker 1: grace and such ethics. He's pushed boundaries and delivered thought

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Speaker 1: provoking conversations on everything from politics to culture to social issues.

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Speaker 1: And a few years ago he got clickbait canceled and

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Speaker 1: has re invented his life and stood up for himself

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Speaker 1: and who he is and what he believes in and

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Speaker 1: managed to find incredible joy along the way. And I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to him about his career, his resilience,

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Speaker 1: his love with his husband, his book, and his new show,

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Speaker 1: The Don Lemon Show, which is available wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts and on YouTube. I absolutely love it. I

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Speaker 1: want to ask him what it's like to continue being

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Speaker 1: who he is in all these new spaces, places and mediums,

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Speaker 1: and of course we are going to talk about queer joy.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive in with Don Lemon. Don, it's so nice

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Speaker 1: to see you.

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Speaker 2: Good to see you, Sophia. You look fantastic. What are

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Speaker 2: you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm in love and happy. I think, yeah, I hear,

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Speaker 1: it's good for the skin.

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Speaker 2: I know I'm waiting for you though.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I know you're ready. You want me to really

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Speaker 1: pull the trigger.

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Speaker 2: I did last year. It was last year, last year,

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Speaker 2: a year in April.

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Speaker 1: Oh, congratulation, I know that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I never thought i'd get married ever in

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Speaker 2: a million. Really, yeah, it was impossible for me.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting. Well that's that's oh. I want to

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Speaker 1: dig into that. I will humorously say, because our listeners

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Speaker 1: obviously I would imagine know all my things. I've tried

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Speaker 1: it and it didn't work out so great. And then

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe that's not for me. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: I had a big life revelation. I was like, you

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Speaker 1: never say never. We'll see what.

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Speaker 2: Happened that revelation.

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Speaker 1: See what happens. Why did you think you would never

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Speaker 1: get married? Was it just the legality?

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Speaker 2: Pre it was a legality. And also it was you know,

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Speaker 2: back in the day, I'm a little older than you.

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Speaker 2: You just didn't talk about those things. You know. It's

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Speaker 2: always like a roommate, Oh, my roommate is going to

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Speaker 2: come to Thanksgiving, and they're like, oh, Don's friend is coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, your best friend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But I just thought it wouldn't be possible. And

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Speaker 2: then it was so weird because my mom walked me

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Speaker 2: down the aisle and as soon as I've walked out,

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Speaker 2: I didn't see her. I walked out to meet her,

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Speaker 2: and as soon as she looked at me, she started crying,

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Speaker 2: and I started crying in the whole way down the aisle.

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Speaker 2: We were just balled. I could not believe it. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I thought it wouldn't be possible. But you know, you

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Speaker 2: never know, right, anything's possible.

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Speaker 1: That's really beautiful. Thank you, And what what made you decide?

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Speaker 1: Last year was the time.

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Speaker 2: Well he proposed in twenty nineteen on his birthday. I

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Speaker 2: thought he was joking. Oh he came into the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: You were his birthday present.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm immediately.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm a sap.

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Speaker 2: That is so see, I don't have this is this

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Speaker 2: is I have another ring that's in the it's being fixed,

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Speaker 2: but I want I said, if I ever told him,

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Speaker 2: I say, if I ever get married, I want a

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Speaker 2: big diamond ring. Anything comes in seriously and he's I'm

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Speaker 2: in bed, and he said, oh, you know, we have

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Speaker 2: to go get manicures. And I said, okay, if your

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Speaker 2: a birthday, we can do whatever you want. We get

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Speaker 2: a manny, petty whatever, and then go have breakfast. And

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Speaker 2: I said, okay, so I'm you know, I'm a late sleeper.

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Speaker 2: And so he walks in and the dogs are with him,

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Speaker 2: and he gets down on one knee and then the dogs.

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Speaker 2: He goes read the dog collar and I said, what what?

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Speaker 2: And then I looked at the dog collar for both

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Speaker 2: on both of our dogs, and it said it says, Daddy,

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Speaker 2: will you marry Papa? And I looked at him and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you're so crazy, and then his lips were

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Speaker 2: trembling like and I went, oh, you're serious. I started

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Speaker 2: laughing at him. I'm like, oh, you're serious. And then

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Speaker 2: he like opens up the things and this big ring

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, holy, it was real. And so anyway,

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Speaker 2: I'm making a long story longer. And then so COVID happened.

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Speaker 2: We started planning and COVID happened and it just sort

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Speaker 2: of fell to the wayside, and we're like, you know,

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Speaker 2: there are more important things in the world, not that

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Speaker 2: this is not important, but we got like we were

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Speaker 2: married already, yeah, and then we said, you know what

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Speaker 2: he said, we're going to we have to make this

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Speaker 2: official and we now want to do it. We wanted

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Speaker 2: to do it in a church. We got married by

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Speaker 2: the US Ambassador to the un like I want it

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Speaker 2: legal and tir God and law and everything and family.

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Speaker 2: And so we did the whole traditional thing with the

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Speaker 2: night before dinner and it was really really, really great

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Speaker 2: and it does make a difference. You feel different.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I can't wait for you.

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Speaker 1: So this is a really interesting through line because whenever

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Speaker 1: I sit across from somebody, I think about what the

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Speaker 1: world knows of you. You know, your career, your profile,

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Speaker 1: the people who follow your work, and I always like

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Speaker 1: to know about who people were before they were a

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Speaker 1: household name. And the question I love to ask feels

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Speaker 1: even more poignant understanding for your identity and mine. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the shifts that have happened in our lifetime. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: my question for my guests is always if you could

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Speaker 1: bend the space time continuum and meet up with your

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Speaker 1: younger self as a kid, I mean, eight, nine, ten

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Speaker 1: year old don would you see yourself in him? And

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Speaker 1: when we think about this shift towards permission of full expression,

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Speaker 1: do you think that little boy already knew?

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Speaker 2: No, really, I don't think he knew. I think a

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Speaker 2: couple of things. I think that that little boy was

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Speaker 2: kind of afraid, not kind of afraid, was afraid because

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Speaker 2: I knew what I was. I've I've always known what

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Speaker 2: I was and not you know, kids don't know. They're

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Speaker 2: not sexualized in that way, right, but you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I had a crush on boys and all those things.

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Speaker 2: So the biggest thing for me, the biggest thing for me,

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Speaker 2: obstacle that I had to overcome as a kid, was

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Speaker 2: knowing that I was gay. Everything else was, you know,

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Speaker 2: just I was a child, It was just childhood. I

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Speaker 2: was living in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and like just I

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Speaker 2: think I had a storybook childhood, like being in the country, barefoot,

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Speaker 2: hot as hell in the summer, muggy. You could smell

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Speaker 2: the tar, the tar on the roof would bubble, but

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Speaker 2: you would just run around. We would climb trees and

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Speaker 2: do swings, you know, and go swimming in the lakes,

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Speaker 2: and it was just really great. But the other the

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Speaker 2: only thing that was was a gay thing, and so

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Speaker 2: I did not know, and so I sort of carried

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Speaker 2: that what I thought was a stigma around for decades until,

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Speaker 2: you know, until I was thirty. I didn't come out

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Speaker 2: until I was fifty years old. No, I was like twenty. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was well in my forties twenty eleven. I didn't

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Speaker 2: come out publicly, and everyone my family and my friends knew,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't tell the public until I wrote a

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Speaker 2: book in twenty eleven. So I don't think that I

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Speaker 2: would just go and hug that child and tell him

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Speaker 2: it's everything's going to be okay, or I would just

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Speaker 2: smile and not say anything and just sort of look

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Speaker 2: at him from a far and say, you're going to

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Speaker 2: be okay. I'm not going to worry about you because

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Speaker 2: I know in the future you're going to be okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: As a kid, were you this fascinated with the world

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Speaker 1: and eloquent? Were you a bookworm?

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Speaker 2: I wasn't a bookworm, but I was always bright. It's

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Speaker 2: always clever. I was smart enough that I didn't I

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Speaker 2: could do my homework on the bus, just on the

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Speaker 2: way to school, right, Yeah, I make.

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Speaker 1: All the other kids jealous and get an egg.

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Speaker 2: Yes, except for math, you know. And it's weird because

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Speaker 2: then later, once I applied myself to do math, I

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Speaker 2: was like, math is not so hard. You just have

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Speaker 2: to sit down and like really do it. But maybe

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Speaker 2: I had some sort of I wonder if I had,

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Speaker 2: you know, had ADHD or something as a kid, because

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Speaker 2: it was hard to hold my attention, like everything in me. Now,

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Speaker 2: I was like, don't look at this phone. And I

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Speaker 2: know I don't really care what's on it, but you

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Speaker 2: know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because once you're once you're in it, you're down the.

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Speaker 2: Rabbit and right you're down the rabbit hole. Or like,

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Speaker 2: you know, to look at that monitor, I'm like, way

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Speaker 2: to set something on TV or like so that as

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Speaker 2: a kid, I was always like, you know, you could

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Speaker 2: easily distract me. It was easily distractable. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 2: I think that's you know, and that's why I couldn't

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Speaker 2: sit down and do math. But yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 2: I would. Was I always eloquent? You I was a

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Speaker 2: good writer. He was a good speaker.

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Speaker 1: I'm always curious if people like yourself see versions of

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Speaker 1: themselves in there in the kids that they were. You know,

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Speaker 1: if if you even the fact that you can point

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Speaker 1: out that you were always very well spoken, that you

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Speaker 1: were a good writer. You know, those things tracked to

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Speaker 1: me in terms of how you wound up becoming such

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Speaker 1: an amazing journalist, such an amazing advocate. You know the

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Speaker 1: I think it's neat to figure out where all your

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Speaker 1: little seeds were planted along the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't. It's hindsight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh only only. I mean I think about that

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Speaker 1: in so many places spaces times in my life. You know,

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Speaker 1: when I was like white knuckling to try to get

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Speaker 1: through something and then finally said what am I doing

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Speaker 1: this for? I can look back and say, oh, I

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Speaker 1: knew two years before that I shouldn't have done that.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, now I think about science. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is my nerdy stuff. I was like a space

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Speaker 1: baby kid who always wanted to understand outer space. And

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Speaker 1: when I think about invisible string theory or theories of time.

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Speaker 1: You know now that I'm in love with the woman,

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Speaker 1: I'm in love with I think I was always supposed

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Speaker 1: to be with her, but I knew her for years

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Speaker 1: and never saw it. Like I didn't she was just

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Speaker 1: my cool friend. I didn't see it till I saw it.

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Speaker 1: And now looking back, I go, oh, maybe there was

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Speaker 1: a reason that I always felt so comfortable around her.

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Speaker 1: Oh maybe there was a reason that we bonded over,

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Speaker 1: you know, activism for women. And then we're always on

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Speaker 1: these chats together, or we'd always start a group chat

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Speaker 1: with each other's number first if we needed to rally

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people for a cause, like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I didn't get it at all. And then it

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Speaker 1: sort of like smacked me in the face and I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, my pay attention, pay attention and mindful.

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Speaker 2: And in the moment, yeah, realize those things. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I think be, you know, be a little

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Speaker 1: open to letting your life happen to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if there were I guess there

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Speaker 2: were sign posts, but I wasn't. I didn't know for sure,

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Speaker 2: because you know, you're just not mature enough as a child,

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Speaker 2: so you know, the little things that you worry about.

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Speaker 2: I guess it was always there. The thing that I

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Speaker 2: think that throws people off is when you try to

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Speaker 2: be something for someone else, when you try to be

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Speaker 2: someone else's version of yourself. And so if I had

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Speaker 2: just and I did, I went away from it for

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Speaker 2: a while, but then there are always things push you back.

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Speaker 2: The universe will push you back, if you know, if

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Speaker 2: you if you take the wrong course. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be I want to

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Speaker 2: be a lawyer like my dad. And so then I

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Speaker 2: went and I said I'm gonna do economics and to

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Speaker 2: do these things. And I was like, I hated it.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't until you asked me if I was curious.

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Speaker 2: I was always curious as a kid, always asking questions.

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Speaker 2: Like it's tough for me not to ask you questions.

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Speaker 2: Right now, I can have you ask any questions. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was signposts, but I didn't know. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: didn't know. And just like you know, when you if

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Speaker 2: you even when you're older, if you sort of if

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Speaker 2: you change careers or you sort of move into a

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Speaker 2: different aspect of your career, like you don't know, and

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Speaker 2: you're you know, you're afraid of it. But then it's

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Speaker 2: always I think the universe is like a it's like

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Speaker 2: a railroad track and always kind of guide you into

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Speaker 2: where you're supposed to go, or like bumper cars.

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Speaker 1: Yes so sometimes so I've been smashed by a bumper

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Speaker 1: card too. But that's really interesting that you say that

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Speaker 1: I had a similar thing. I always thought I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a doctor, wanted to be a hard surgeon.

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Speaker 1: That was going to be my thing. And then I

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Speaker 1: had an arts requirement in school and I had to

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Speaker 1: do a play. And then I realized plays where books

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Speaker 1: come to life, and English was my favorite subject, and

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Speaker 1: maybe theater would be cool. And then I decided I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go to theater school. You can imagine how

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Speaker 1: well that went over in my home. My parents were like,

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Speaker 1: what what? Medical school? Plays?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: And then I went to theater school. And it felt

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Speaker 1: to me at the time, I think, you know, being

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Speaker 1: eighteen and being in this very expansive phase in life,

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Speaker 1: I felt really reduced by the fact that I was

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Speaker 1: only studying one thing. And so I transferred into the

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Speaker 1: journalism school at USC.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: It was the balance I needed, because how to find

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Speaker 1: and tell a story and how to honor the people

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Speaker 1: whose stories you were telling in the real world made

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Speaker 1: me viscerally a better actor. And then everybody was saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you've transferred into the journalism school, so you want to

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Speaker 1: be a news anchor. And I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I think I still want to be an actor,

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Speaker 1: but maybe eventually i'd want to be a news anchor.

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Speaker 1: And this didn't exist yet, podcasting didn't exist yet, and

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Speaker 1: now I get to do both. You know, it's my

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Speaker 1: favorite thing, do.

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Speaker 2: You know it's weird. I took an acting class you did,

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Speaker 2: and it really helped me. It helped my journalism. It

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Speaker 2: helped me as a broadcasting because the acting coach said,

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Speaker 2: just go with it, like, just be in the moment

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Speaker 2: and go with it, and don't be afraid to silence

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Speaker 2: because it's very powerful. And I said, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're right. And I started watching all of the really

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Speaker 2: great and not necessarily news broadcasters are the worst. They

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Speaker 2: hate dead air, but actors and some radio folks, right,

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Speaker 2: they don't hate dead air because they know that there's

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Speaker 2: a power there. And so I'd start watching folks like

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Speaker 2: that and I'm like, you know, they're right, and so

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Speaker 2: I would take pauses. You know, it's not strategically, but

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Speaker 2: I was just slow down on the air, and then

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Speaker 2: just whatever I was feeling, I would, you know, I

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Speaker 2: would look at what's on the script or what was written,

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Speaker 2: or what was on the teleprompter, and I could, you

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Speaker 2: know what, let me just level with you guys for

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Speaker 2: a minute. I don't know what's going on. This is

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Speaker 2: the thing, craziest thing that I've ever seen, nothing like

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Speaker 2: this in my years. And you know, on Earth is whatever.

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Speaker 2: And I would just start talking to the audience and

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Speaker 2: then boom, you know, primetime show blah blah blah, because

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Speaker 2: I was being a human And sometimes I'm too much

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Speaker 2: of a human on the air and it gets me

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Speaker 2: in trouble. But you know it's okay.

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Speaker 1: I think that's why we like each other. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am. I have been told versions of the same.

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Speaker 1: You can't be so vulnerable, you can't be so open,

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Speaker 1: you can't be so political. Yeah, yeah, I disagree.

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Speaker 2: I think we need more of that now. I think

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Speaker 2: we need people, especially in this moment. We need people

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Speaker 2: to stand up and not be afraid of.

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Speaker 1: And I want to be in the marrow of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I want to be where we're connected and cellular and

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Speaker 1: together and human, not performing you know, in a student.

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Speaker 2: I hate that now. Yeah, I'm so happy where I

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Speaker 2: am Now. I hate it, like with all of the

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Speaker 2: makeup and the Okay, this God, I love. I love

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Speaker 2: like sitting in my home studio and talking to people

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Speaker 2: and having them like relate and having them love me

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Speaker 2: being in the home studio.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Okay, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about this because and I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: vulnerable with you. I'm going to tell you a couple

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Speaker 1: of things. You know, when we first met years ago

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Speaker 1: in DC, I was like, oh my god, done knows me,

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Speaker 1: Like I just was so I was like, he is

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Speaker 1: so cool. I can't believe this. You said something so

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Speaker 1: sweet to me. We were all in like, you know,

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Speaker 1: our fancy dress for the correspondence dinner. And then when

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Speaker 1: your whole observational moment i'll call it, happened on the

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Speaker 1: air at CNN. I remember doing the thing I always

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Speaker 1: encourage people not to do. I saw the headline and

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Speaker 1: I went, what the fam I was like, even him,

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Speaker 1: and I was so bummed about it. And then I

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Speaker 1: checked myself and I watched it and I went, you

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Speaker 1: are making a systemic observation about the way our world functions,

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Speaker 1: and you are calling out this inappropriate agism that a

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Speaker 1: woman is participating in when she knows what it feels

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Speaker 1: like not only as a woman in her midlife, but

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Speaker 1: as she also knows what it feels like to be

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Speaker 1: a woman of color, no matter what she changes her

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Speaker 1: name to. And you're pointing this out as a man

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Speaker 1: in your midlife who is also a man of color,

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Speaker 1: who is also a publicly outman, and you're talking about

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Speaker 1: the intersection of how judgment is but you got clipped

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Speaker 1: and click baited.

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Speaker 2: Everybody put and judged their judgment on me, And yeah.

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Speaker 1: I it was a moment that reminded me, even in myself,

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Speaker 1: don't get mad when you see the headline because the

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Speaker 1: headline's trying to make you mad. Investigate. You're a trained journalist,

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Speaker 1: you know this. And I said as much to someone

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Speaker 1: I tend to as an activist. Get a lot of feedback,

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Speaker 1: you know how that feels. And there were quite a

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Speaker 1: few people that were like, can't believe you still follow

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Speaker 1: this person and using the misogyny term a lot. And

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Speaker 1: I don't respond to strangers on the internet. I'm not insane.

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Speaker 1: And one person just really got under my skin, and

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Speaker 1: I did, and I said a version of what I

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Speaker 1: said to you, and I was like, here's what the

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Speaker 1: full scope of the story is. We should be relieved

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Speaker 1: that a man is advocating for us this way on

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Speaker 1: the internet, and we bought this clickbait hook line an

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Speaker 1: embarrassing sinker. And it was like a very cool moment

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Speaker 1: because I later got a response from this woman who said,

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Speaker 1: I went and watch the interview. I'm also ashamed of myself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I just I tell you all of that because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to hide that. I was also a

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Speaker 1: bit of a judgmental all that day.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, though, but I'm used to it.

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Speaker 1: I looked, how did that feel in the moment, because

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Speaker 1: clearly the clipped quote became the runaway train.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, how did you.

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Speaker 1: Process that in the world, but also just in yourself.

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Speaker 2: Well, it couldn't be what people were thinking. Could be

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Speaker 2: further away from who I am, especially as the only

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Speaker 2: boy in a family of all women, and I know

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Speaker 2: what women have to deal with. And during that interview,

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Speaker 2: I said, I'm not saying I believe that no one

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Speaker 2: writes that, no one. I'm not saying I believe that,

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Speaker 2: but and there were other things going on at CNN

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Speaker 2: that you know what sure, you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh gee, drama behind the scenes and never know anything about.

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Speaker 2: That all behind the scenes, and competition and know that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing. And so I just it was tough

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Speaker 2: because at first I was like, wait, I'm not you

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Speaker 2: guys understand what I'm saying, don't you? And They're like, well, no,

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Speaker 2: you just it sounds this way, And I said, but

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Speaker 2: that I'm telling you what I'm saying, And basically I'm

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Speaker 2: tryd I was trying to make the point that you

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Speaker 2: were making and standing up for older people because you're

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Speaker 2: being agists. Why are you doing this when you know

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Speaker 2: how society has treated you and sees you, yes, as

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Speaker 2: a woman, and so anyways, and then so the thing

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Speaker 2: is is that I know her. She took the bait

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Speaker 2: and she used it in her and raised money off

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: And I was, well, yeah, wow, I've seen quite a

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Speaker 1: few people take.

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Speaker 2: A lie, yeah and turn it into.

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Speaker 1: Flip it and she knows benefit.

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Speaker 2: She she could have called me and said, hey, what

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Speaker 2: were you saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had that happen too, Yeah, and did not.

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Speaker 2: And did not do it. But it was, so, how

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Speaker 2: did it.

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Speaker 1: Feel someone can ride the wave to get the kind

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Speaker 1: of press they've never gotten before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it takes a person who's very in a

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Speaker 1: practice of therapy or whatever or else divest them from

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Speaker 1: their ego not to take that bait, and clearly she

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Speaker 1: was not.

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Speaker 2: But it was also the universe telling me I didn't

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Speaker 2: need to be there anymore. Yeah, that it was time

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Speaker 2: for me to move on, and that not that you're

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Speaker 2: bigger than any one company, but sometimes you are. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: what you need to do is bigger than what you're

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Speaker 2: doing in that place.

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Speaker 1: I also think and listen, I left a job once,

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Speaker 1: and it's unheard of for an actor to quit a job.

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Speaker 1: And I quit a job, people were like, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? And it could have been a place I

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Speaker 1: stayed forever and that I benefited from. But what I

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Speaker 1: hear and what makes me feel seen, and what you

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Speaker 1: are willing to discuss with the public about this stuff,

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Speaker 1: is that sometimes you have to know you are worth

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Speaker 1: more than whatever room you've made it into, that who

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Speaker 1: you are is more meaningful than what you do or

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Speaker 1: where you do it. And I think sometimes whether you

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Speaker 1: get the sign and you know you went through being

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Speaker 1: pushed out of an environment. I went through leaving an environment.

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Speaker 1: But the thing I think we both share is that

435
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: our jobs lost us.

436
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

437
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: And when you said that about reflecting on your experience,

438
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: I was like, that is the confidence I want to

439
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 1: walk through the world in because it is scary to

440
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 1: make a change in any way, and you chose to

441
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: stick to who you are and you made a change

442
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: and you look happier. Like you said to me when

443
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: you walked in here. You were like, girl, you look good.

444
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm happy.

445
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. But it also doesn't mean. It doesn't mean that

446
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 2: the new place that you're in it's not challenging, that

447
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 2: it's not tough. But I don't know, I'm just happier

448
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: and lighter. And they have to deal with the politics

449
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: of it, and you know, hanging onto something that people

450
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: just hang on to because they think it's the best

451
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: thing for them and they'll never do anything else, or

452
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 2: none of that is true or real. It is. That's

453
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: you know, the devil is a.

454
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: Liar, well, and fear is a liar.

455
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 2: Fear is a liar. That's what I mean by the devil.

456
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: Fear is a liar.

457
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: With the shift for you the new career path that's

458
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: very much more in your own control. How do you

459
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 1: grapple with this stuff? How do you figure out how

460
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: to talk about it? How do you do what we're doing,

461
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 1: which is be as real and honest as possible and

462
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: also leave people with some hope.

463
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: Well, I don't have to self edit anymore. I don't

464
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: have to worry, like, say more about that. Well, when

465
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: I was on CNN, I have to self edit everything

466
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: because I represented forty five hundred other people or so

467
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 2: in the company, right, and I represented a brand, a

468
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: major brand, okay news brand company, And so I would say,

469
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: is this going to get me in trouble? How is this?

470
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: You know this is going to end up? Like this

471
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 2: is all going through your mind? What are they going

472
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: to say about this on Fox News? How is you know?

473
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: How are the conservative how's the conservative media going to

474
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: spin this? And what are my bosses going to think?

475
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 2: And someone's going to think I'm too left, or someone's

476
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: going to think I'm too right, or someone's.

477
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: Going to say I'm being too soft in the center.

478
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all of that, right, And so I don't

479
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 2: have to do that now. So I believe that the

480
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: thing that will win out in the end, Like I

481
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 2: believe the folks who are going to carry us through

482
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 2: aren't the politicians. It's going to be the artists that

483
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: are going to help us to get on the other

484
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: side and the pendulum to swing back in the right direction.

485
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: And I think the folks who are independent journalists who

486
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: just sort of speak the truth and speak their minds

487
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: and don't necessarily put a governor on, like, oh, I

488
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: got to slow down and whatever I say what I want.

489
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: If I screw up, I say, you know what, I

490
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 2: really didn't mean that. I apologize that was wrong. And

491
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 2: that's how human beings treat each.

492
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: Other, modeling humanity.

493
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I don't let my critics define me.

494
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 2: I no longer do that, but a lot of folks

495
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 2: who are in traditional media do that. So and then

496
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: I offer people hope because my saying is old people

497
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:15,239
Speaker 2: be knowing. So I've gone through this something similar to

498
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: this a number of times, not as much as my mom,

499
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: who is eighty who lived through a lot of different

500
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: administrations and has seen a lot of change in the world.

501
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,239
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of change in the world, and

502
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: I know when we go through tumultuous times like this

503
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 2: when there's so much gyration in everything in the stock

504
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: market and politics and everything, there's something on the other

505
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: side that it is getting us too that is much calmer,

506
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 2: much more effective, and much simpler. Progress is not just

507
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: straight linear or doesn't just go straight up right, It's jagged.

508
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

509
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 2: Right. When people say one step forward, two steps back, yeah, well,

510
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: sometimes it's one step forward and sometimes it's four steps back.

511
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: But then eventually you do move forward. And so I believe,

512
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: I do believe in my heart of hearts that something

513
00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 2: good will come out of this.

514
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: And so it's like I think, unless we start to

515
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: really tell it like it is within our own communities

516
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 1: and across communities, so we can coalition build cause like

517
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: I need your men to show up for us. You

518
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: and I need all the people out there in hetero

519
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: relationships to show up for us. Because when they turned

520
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: over Dobbs and then said they wanted to come for Oberfels,

521
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: and then Clarence Thomas had the nerve to say loving

522
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: should be re examined, I'm like, bro, the ultimate rules

523
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: for thee but not for me. How is this freedom?

524
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: What are we talking about.

525
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: And coming for us? Wherever they say we're going to

526
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 2: send it back to the states. That means they're coming

527
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 2: for you if.

528
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: If your rights change state to state on a road trip,

529
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: there is no America period, end of story, right, Like,

530
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: that's just it. You don't have rights if they change

531
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: state to state. And that is so crazy to me

532
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: that we haven't settled this as a being.

533
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: Yes, as humans, there's no debate, But I think that

534
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 3: we haven't settled it because again I hate to keep

535
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 3: you know, dumping on the media, but it's because they

536
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 3: normalize these things.

537
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to ask you about.

538
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: They normalize these things, and it's false equivalence. Why are

539
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 2: we having a conversation about whether Donald Trump is taking

540
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: a plane from the Qataris if that is legal period period?

541
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 2: So why do you have someone on arguing that, well,

542
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: it's you know, with the statue of liberty. It's like

543
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: that is the dumbest that I've ever heard. Why are

544
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: we doing this? And they're doing it about everything, everything,

545
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: about everything, But they don't have the person who is

546
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: either a centrist or a liberal. They don't promote those

547
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: people and they don't allow them to be able to like,

548
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: you know, do their thing as they do with the

549
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: crazy maga conservative.

550
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: Okay, can I ask you a question because I think

551
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: I know the answer, but you know you don't work

552
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: for a news network anymore, so you can confirm or deny.

553
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: Are they eroding truth, fact and the law because the

554
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: outrage and the clickbait of the what about ism on

555
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: the both sides pattern they're falling into is good for

556
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: their ratings in their pockets.

557
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: The answer is yes, very simply, it's good for it.

558
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: And also the person who is in Washington, in the

559
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: White House right now, has huge sway over what business

560
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: gets handled in Washington, what gets FCC approval, and what

561
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: businesses can get be merged or acquisitioned in all of

562
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: those things, and they don't want that messed up. They

563
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: want their deals, their business deals to go through. So

564
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: they don't want to piss off the Trump administration or

565
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: Donald Trump or he'll say I'm doing that, and he

566
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: did it. He does.

567
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: He's punitive, he doesn't abide by the law.

568
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: He is punitive. But he did it once and I

569
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: was I lived through it. You know, old people be known.

570
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: I lived through it when at and T and Time

571
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: Warner merged and Donald Trump tried to stop it as

572
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, he delayed it for a long time,

573
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: and then I guess, you know, after a while they

574
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: had no choice but to go through because they jumped

575
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: through all the hoops. But they don't want that to

576
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: happen again, and so they're just going to get rid

577
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: of the person who is that mouthy person who's downstairs

578
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: at the anchor desk. Are going to go get rid

579
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: of them? Yeah, or they're going to say we're going

580
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: to settle. Are they going to get rid of the

581
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: head of news as you know what's happening, or they're

582
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: going to get rid of the person who is over

583
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: this particular program, or they're going to you know, fire

584
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: some news anchor settled settle a lawsuit that they would

585
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: probably win in court because they just don't make waves.

586
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: But to bend the knee in advance is to seed

587
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: hard won rights for people. So what do you think now.

588
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: You're a profession that's protected into the First Amendment?

589
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: Exactly, these supposed First Amendment people, It's like so embarrassing

590
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: how sensitive they are. Aside from the fact that it's

591
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: deeply illegal to be behaving like this, I'm also just

592
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: like y'all call us snowflakes. You could never you can

593
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: never handle my DMS. You'd be crying in the corner

594
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: having a panic attack, you losers.

595
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: Who's it? I heard that said that you call us snowflakes,

596
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: but yet you are triggered by a rainbow T shirt

597
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: on all thirteen in Target. It's like, really give me

598
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: a break.

599
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, I will say something that

600
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: really made me giggle when you know, I realized who

601
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: I was so madly in love with a bunch of people.

602
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: You see this every year, right for Pride. People who

603
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: like the rainbow T Shirt's not going to make your

604
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,959
Speaker 1: kid gay, but and they like plug in some one's performance,

605
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: and somebody did like but so Via Bush and John

606
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: Tucker mus dies, so Via Bush and Easy and now

607
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: so Via Bush and her World Cup winning girlfriend Will

608
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: And I just was like, honestly, it's been my honor

609
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: to serve for the last twenty years. Guys, thank you

610
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: so much. I'm thrilled about it. We need the join,

611
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's like people are just gonna be

612
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: who they are. What's so crazy to me is that

613
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: in a world that is so hard, yeah, for a

614
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: lot of people, anybody's mad about people being in love,

615
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: Like we're so cute with our people. Yeah, Like it's

616
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: crazy to me that anyone is bothered. And it's been

617
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: crazy to me my whole life again, because I grew

618
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: up where I grew up. I grew up around artists.

619
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: Can I tell you something. We talk about this all

620
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: the time, especially after the pandemic. We know so many

621
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: heterosexual couples, married couples, yeah called it quits. Every single

622
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: gay couple we know still together, all together doing surrogacy.

623
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: I want to have kids, sending their kids to the

624
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: best school, sacrificing things so that their kids can have

625
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: the best. And you know for couples that well, you know,

626
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: if you want to have a kid, okay, let's go

627
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: in there and do it. But for me, you know,

628
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: you got to work in order to have a kid. Right.

629
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: But but you know, I don't know that much about

630
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: your life, but I see your social media and I

631
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: know you're you know your partner, and you have a cute,

632
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: beautiful life. My husband and I we drive an SUV.

633
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: We have three dogs. They're always in our social media.

634
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: We love to cook for people. We put our meals

635
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: and stuff online. We spend lots of time with our family.

636
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: We're at family graduations a couple of week. I mean,

637
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: we are just normal people in our lives are probably

638
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: more boring than our head at our sex old friends.

639
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: Well, one of my favorite things when they started saying

640
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: they wanted to threaten marriage equality, one of like the sassiest, yummiest,

641
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, old people know things like old people be knowing,

642
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: come on, you know, but you know I need to know.

643
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: I need to know what lines of the songs I

644
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: can sing and what I can't. Like, I'm not trying

645
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: to be ridiculous, but like one of my like gorgeous,

646
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: sassy elder gays was like, oh what the straight people

647
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: don't want us all to have a chance to be

648
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: as miserable as they.

649
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: And I was like, listen, I mean I love that.

650
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: My straight friends are like, what do you guys? Why

651
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: do you want to get married? What is wrong with you?

652
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: You guys are crazy?

653
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: And we're like, well, you're like, I don't know, I

654
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: really like him.

655
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: Hey guess what. Well, and I always look at him

656
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: and I go tax breaks, Hey, you guys are getting

657
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: the tax benefits and we're not.

658
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: That bart Yeah, and we didn't have for the guys

659
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: are getting the socialism and yes, and we're not.

660
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: For the longest time, I was paying for you know,

661
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: the kids, and I still am paying for your kids

662
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: to go to school and.

663
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: Happily and happily by the way, it's all good. We

664
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: should again. You want to live in a society and

665
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: not in like Joshua Tree off the grid, Yeah, contribute

666
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: That might be fun though, I mean, I wouldn't hate it.

667
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: I do. I spend a lot of time alone in

668
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: the woods now because I like it a lot. The

669
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: joy makes me so happy and I'm not It's not

670
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: lost on me because you mentioned it earlier. You know,

671
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: you didn't publicly come out till twenty eleven. Yeah, you

672
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: decided to do it in your book. How did you

673
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: decide how to do it? And why did the book

674
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: feel like the way?

675
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 2: It was weird because I didn't think about it that much.

676
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: I think sometimes you just can't think of you We

677
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: overthink things a lot. So I was writing a book

678
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: about my journeys in journalism and you know, sort of

679
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: sort of a memoir. This is an autobiography. I was

680
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: way too young for that and not you know, necessarily

681
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,959
Speaker 2: did not have a big enough name to be able

682
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: to do that, but it was I guess big enough

683
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: for the New York Times and other folks. It up

684
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 2: because the only people out, the only person on Network

685
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 2: News that was out at that time was Rachel Maddow.

686
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: Wow.

687
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 2: And then so I just started writing the book. And

688
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: then I came to the part where I moved to

689
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: New York City and I said, well, if I leave

690
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 2: this out, then how do I'm not really being honest

691
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: about it, and I won't feel really good about myself.

692
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: And am I going to look back on this and

693
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: say that I missed an opportunity or that it was

694
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: not authentic. It was inauthentic. And I said, you know what,

695
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: I just have to be honest. I said, I moved

696
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 2: to New York City one because you know of the racism,

697
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 2: and two I wanted to be who I wanted to be.

698
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: I would never have been able to be myself if

699
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 2: had I stayed there. And I wanted to be out.

700
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: I was gay, and I didn't think I could do it.

701
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: I could be out in Louisiana and I went to

702
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: a city that would accept me. So and I just

703
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: wrote about it, and it was literally, I don't know,

704
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: maybe on a page or two pages, and that was

705
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: it in the book. And that's like the biggest thing

706
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: that people pay.

707
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,959
Speaker 1: The biggest headline, well the biggest.

708
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: Headline, and that sold the book. And yeah, I mean

709
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: folks who are like, holy crap, Don Lemon is gay

710
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: and other people were like yeah, and water is wet,

711
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 2: but no one had come out, No one had come out.

712
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: And Rachel Maddow like sent me flowers and she was

713
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: like the first person and she's like, you know this

714
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: is this is going to be good for you, and

715
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: it really was good for me.

716
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: I just think getting to be your whole self is everything.

717
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it is.

718
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: And to your point, like, in whatever way the personal

719
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: life sells the thing. I wish I'd been able to

720
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: do it in a book because everybody else made money

721
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: off my news story but me. But I was sort

722
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: of like, why is everyone so fascinated with people's personal

723
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: lives and not their careers, their volunteer work. They're things

724
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: the news wants what's sexy, right, And for me, what

725
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: was so surreal was to see the the confluence of

726
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: that tendency and also the misogyny I thought I experienced

727
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: it growing up on teen television in the early aughts,

728
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: like it could get any worse. And then I was like,

729
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: it was really bad. It was really really bad.

730
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: Look at what happened to Britney Spears.

731
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: No, Honestly, the fact that like, I'm not in the

732
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: corner chewing my hair is a miracle is a sentence

733
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: my best friend says to me at least once a week.

734
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: But the by the way, not to say that she is.

735
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: See look how nervous we get. I'm like, oh my god,

736
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean that about me, not about her. I love

737
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: her anyway.

738
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: At what happened with When you think about how she

739
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 2: was treated by the industry, that's what we're talking about. Yeah,

740
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: we're taking up for her, yes exactly.

741
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: I just wanted to clarify we're traumatized, but it you know,

742
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: it was so interesting to me to see how much

743
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: worse it could be when they could do it to

744
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: two women, and when they got this gleeful thing like

745
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: they were outing me, and I was like, oh, you

746
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: want me to be freaked out. All I'm going to

747
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: do since you've decided to take this from me is

748
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: go everywhere with her. I'm going to make out with

749
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: her everywhere to the point of your nausea, because you'll

750
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, it's enough, and I'm like cameras around

751
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: or not. I actually had a friend call me and go,

752
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: were you at Penn Station on Tuesday night? And I

753
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: was like yeah, and she said, my friend saw you

754
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: and was like, I saw this couple just like kissing.

755
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: It looked like a scene from a movie. They looked

756
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: so in love, like waiting for the trains to come

757
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: on the board, and they pulled apart, and I realized

758
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: it was your friend Sophia and her girlfriend. And I

759
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I give someone New York

760
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: City room call me. But it's like I remember thinking

761
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: to myself, Oh, if you think you're going to make

762
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: me hide, I'm going to be the most loud and

763
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: proud human because I love her and I'm the happiest

764
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: I've ever been with her. And I don't know. It's

765
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: it's so surreal to see that, to see that two

766
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: pages of your book became the whole headline. But in

767
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: a way, I wonder if it's because so many people

768
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: need it.

769
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: Oh, I wonder realize that.

770
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if we give people permission.

771
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I realized that I mean, think about that

772
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: was Think about how long ago that was, yeah, right, Yeah,

773
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 2: and we have moved here, Yeah, we have moved into

774
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: like we've we've got the advances that we have made

775
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: over the last what fourteen years or so, it's been incredible.

776
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: I mean, look at marriage equality. There was no marriage

777
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 2: equality when I came out, and I wanted to ask

778
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: you this because I was worried. One of the big

779
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: things is that I was going to lose my career,

780
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: that my company would fire me, or you know, just

781
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: because you know people aren't watching you, don the ratings

782
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: are showing we got to get you out of here, right,

783
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: or people would just reject me. Was that a concern

784
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: for you?

785
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: No, not at all. And this is the inverse. So

786
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: I will say, I believe I can't obviously say what

787
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: it's like to be a man of color in the media,

788
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: but I know if I'm just looking at gender, like,

789
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: women get treated so much worse than men about their

790
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: love lives, their careers, everything, their age, everything. But where

791
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: the misogyny flips for us is men think it's pretty

792
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: hot when two women are kissing.

793
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was going to say that to you.

794
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 2: If people see you kissing on a platform, like some

795
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: guys whoa and if they see me they may throw

796
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: a beer can at me.

797
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: And you never know. And by the way, there's some

798
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: of that for us as well. Yeah, for sure, homophobia

799
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: is very real. But I think what was really interesting

800
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: for me was to go, oh, you'll treat me so

801
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: much worse, but you'll also kind of get off on it,

802
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: which feels really icky. But also, you know, early Outsmax

803
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: and Vaccine, I've had to deal with that.

804
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: I think some of the guys are good too. I

805
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 2: mean the stuff that I've learned lately about Oh no,

806
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: all the.

807
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: Guys who like hide who they are. I'm like, you

808
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: would just be so cute if you were out. But

809
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: that's for another day. I'm not rushing anyone else. But

810
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: I think what's really interesting for me as well. And

811
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 1: again I don't know that I realized it at the time,

812
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: but I never shied away from playing any kind of woman,

813
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: a bisexual woman, a straight woman, a queer woman. I've

814
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: never not taken the job that I liked because of

815
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: who my character was involved with. So you know, I

816
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 1: was kissing girls in the third movie I ever did,

817
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: and I have in and out of jobs for my

818
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: whole career, and so it never it wasn't really a

819
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: worry for me because I'd never been given the message

820
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: you did this movie or you did this TV show,

821
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: don't do that again. I never got that. I have

822
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: had some people, again, folks a little older than me,

823
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: who I think are used to the industry as it

824
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: has been, not necessarily where it's going, say to me, like,

825
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: you might want to tone it down a little bit,

826
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: like be happy, but you don't have to go everywhere together.

827
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, I'm about to become such a

828
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: pain in your ass. I'm going to go every were

829
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: like on her back?

830
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: Hey someone said that to me?

831
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: Did they?

832
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, your husband is everywhere with you and I and

833
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: I showed them pictures of straight couples and I'm you know,

834
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 2: such and such are always the other. I said, you

835
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: guys have little cute names for them like benefer and

836
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: you know whatever, and it's just so, what is that?

837
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 2: What's the difference?

838
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: And That's what I think people don't quite realize when

839
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: people say, oh, well, what are kids going to think

840
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: if there's two princes kissing in a Disney movie? Someday?

841
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, They've seen the Prince and the princess

842
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: kiss in every movie ever, and no one talks about it.

843
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: No one's ever not asked a kid how their mom

844
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: and dad are doing. It's okay to say, how are

845
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: your moms like it, It's okay to include people. You're

846
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: not losing anything. You've just always had everything. And I

847
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: think for me, having been in on both sides of

848
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: the relationship spectrum, I'm like, so, if this relationship is

849
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: the best one I've ever been and you want me

850
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: to talk about it left no.

851
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: And this whole thing, this whole indoctrination thing, like, well,

852
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: this is indoctrination. And I said, you know what, I

853
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: grew up in the South, uh huh, going to Catholic

854
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: school and a Southern Baptist missionary Baptist church. And I said,

855
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: if that wasn't indoctrination, wouldn't you think if indoctrination was real,

856
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 2: that would have made me a heterosexual?

857
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: And they're like, if people could change who they are,

858
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: we'd literally all be the same. Yeah, that would just

859
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: be it.

860
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: And why do you care?

861
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: Though I know, I know, why does it matter? Do

862
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: you think looking back, coming out finding the love of

863
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: your life, being married, shifting into your own show that

864
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: is completely in your control as this is in mind,

865
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: so we can say and all the other words that

866
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier, like do you just feel

867
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: in your life more and more yourself more and more free?

868
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: I do. I mean I felt that way for a while,

869
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 2: but now even more so. Yeah, because it's all me,

870
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 2: I don't have to worry about anybody else. I don't

871
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: have to worry about the boss and even advertisers. I

872
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: get to pick the advertisers we do. I love it, right,

873
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: and I get to pick them, and I get to

874
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, you want me to, you know, say hey,

875
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: you need to buy such and such and such and such,

876
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: send me a sample if I like it.

877
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie.

878
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie. And so I don't have

879
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: to worry about Oh my god, I'm going to piss

880
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 2: off some advertiser. It's like, if you don't want to

881
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: advertise on my show? Yeah, I love it?

882
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: Is that really happy for you?

883
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: I'm so glad we met. This is crazy. We know

884
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: each other.

885
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: Well now, we know each other better.

886
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: We only met like we met at the White House Correspondence.

887
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: But what you on my show. Didn't you come on

888
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: the show for a doc or something you were doing? No.

889
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: The embarrassing thing is, at this point, I can't remember

890
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: same Like if I can look up a day or

891
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: a photo, I go, oh, and it was for this,

892
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: Oh and you were wearing that. It immediately comes back.

893
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: But now it's like cut all of it's a little

894
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: bit of a blur. Maybe, but I don't remember.

895
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: People say, you know, I was on your show for

896
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: such and such and such, and I can't remember. But

897
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: the thing is is that what they don't realize is

898
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: that when I was on for two hours a night

899
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: for a long time, and I would just sit in

900
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: the chair and they would shuffle guests in a house,

901
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: and so I'd go, Okay, what guess is this?

902
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: And maybe can't remember? Yeah, I have a thing, and

903
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: I wonder if you do too. I know this is

904
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: from acting, because my job is to memorize ten pages

905
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: of information and all the subtext about the emotions, and

906
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: then throw it away the next day and do it

907
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: again so it'll be gone and I'll be like, give

908
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: me a where were we? What was that? And the

909
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: minute it jogs my memory, the whole scene is back

910
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, yeah, we were in Austin at

911
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: the Proper Hotel and you had on a purple sweater.

912
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And I was eating that club sandwich. God,

913
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: that was good. I wish I could have another one.

914
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: And people are like, oh, okay, rain Man, but it's back.

915
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: And I would imagine you have a version of that

916
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: where you can be like, oh my god, it was

917
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: the night of this and this crazy thing had happened,

918
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: and we were running down the halls to get on

919
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: the air to do the breaking news or whatever.

920
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 2: You need something to jog your memory, Yeah, how do

921
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 2: you remember? Because I had the best. I would remember

922
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: when I was in kid, when I was a kid,

923
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: and I would remember the entire school play. Oh yeah,

924
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: and everybody's part.

925
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: Oh, I know everybody's lines.

926
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: And now I'm like, give me that again. And maybe

927
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 2: it's because I'm so used to notes and teleprompters or had.

928
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: Been, but yeah, I also think it's different muscles. And

929
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: I think you have to remember that the thing you

930
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: did for three months when you were sixteen was one

931
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: quarter of one sixteenth of your life. Right now in

932
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: your fifties, when you're doing fifteen four minute segments, a night.

933
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: It's like it's a blip on the radar. It's like,

934
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: what even is that? So it's harder to remember, but

935
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: I do think the memories are in there.

936
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: No, But I mean, how do you memorize the lines

937
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 2: I watched? I went to watch.

938
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time with them. You do,

939
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: and for me particularly. You know, as an actor, you

940
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: do a lot of adr, so a lot of sound

941
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: looping when the picture gets locked to make all the

942
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: sound perfect with the engineers. So I learn dialogue like

943
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: I learned songs. So I learned the rhythm of a scene,

944
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: and then it can change with my scene partner. But

945
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: when I get the rhythm of it down, it's like

946
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: I find the music and then I don't forget it

947
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: like you will. You will never catch me and not

948
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: able to remember all my favorite hip hop from the

949
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: nineties because like, the rhythm of it right is like

950
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: in me yeah, And so it's it's a similar journey

951
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: as an actor. And funnily enough, the other night I

952
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: was at an event and this country song from nineteen

953
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: ninety nine came on and my as I was a

954
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: dancer in high school and my senior project because I

955
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: had focused a lot on like hip hop and jazz,

956
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: was to study country music in the history of line dancing,

957
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: so there were like five country songs. We learned these

958
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: dances too, and one of them came on the other

959
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: night at an event and I was like, I know

960
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: every word to this Brooks and Done song. What's happening

961
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: to me? And all my friends were like, who are you?

962
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 2: Who is this woman?

963
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 1: And I was like, listen, I couldn't have picked it

964
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: out of a lineup, but playing I know this, and

965
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: I will not line dance for you because I'm out

966
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: of practice, but like I remember a couple of steps. Still,

967
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: we are absolutely overtime, and I want to be respectful

968
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: of your day. And I just looked at the clock

969
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: and I'm mortified. But I'm having the best time. So

970
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: I'm going to skip ahead because really we've talked about

971
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: all these things. I didn't need the I didn't really

972
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: need it. But I want to ask you my last

973
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: and favorite question, which, especially given this conversation, feels like

974
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: so momentarily topical for you. Everything seems and feels across

975
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: this table great as you're in this moment in your

976
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: life and you look forward and you think about what

977
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: you want to do and where you want to go.

978
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: What feels like you're work in progress right now?

979
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: Ah well, I mean, you know, one would think I

980
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: would say, you know, my show and my career, but

981
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: I really think it's home and family. Like I need

982
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 2: to I try to work on being more present, and

983
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: you know, I sit there and I go, oh my god,

984
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: this is I go from appointment to appointments and I

985
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: have one in ten minutes right that I'm late for it.

986
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 2: That's okay, that's okay. But I go from one thing

987
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 2: to the next, and then I have to take those

988
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: little moments and sit there and go. You know what,

989
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: if I were working in you know, a traditional or

990
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 2: old school media, if I would do whatever, I would

991
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: not be able to sit here and spend all this

992
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 2: time with my little dogs who only get such a

993
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: small portion of our lives, who are only here for

994
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 2: such a small portion of our lives. Or I'll say,

995
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: I would not be able to plan a dinner with

996
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 2: my husban. And so I want, I need to. I

997
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 2: want to lean more into that because you know, as

998
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: a man of a certain age who never thought that

999
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: they'd be able to get married, that he would be

1000
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 2: or I would be able to get married. I think

1001
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: that is perhaps the reason that I have been thrust

1002
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: in this position now, is to lean more into my

1003
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: life and not necessarily like, oh what am I going

1004
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 2: to do for a career that all manages somehow to

1005
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 2: take care of itself.

1006
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1007
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can. You can quit a job. But

1008
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 2: more than more often than not, people quit relationships and

1009
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: when they should, you know, when it was not necessary

1010
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: for them to be able to do it because they

1011
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 2: didn't work on it enough. Right. Yeah.

1012
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: I think when you love your life, you want to

1013
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: lean into it.

1014
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 2: Being present, that's it. That's it, and listening more. That's

1015
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: my work in progress.

1016
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: M I love that. Thank you so much.

1017
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 2: Thank you. It was a real pleasure. Thank you for