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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 3: This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 3: today on Weird House Cinema we're going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about the nineteen eighty five Ridley Scott fantasy tale Legend,

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Speaker 3: starring Tom Cruise, Miasara, and Tim Curry. I wanted to

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Speaker 3: start off just by saying, because I mentioned it so

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Speaker 3: many times on the show, that I love a good

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Speaker 3: synthetic forest set like a you know, a fairytale woodland

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Speaker 3: built inside a sound stage. Legend is a kind of

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Speaker 3: heaven for me, because it is there's more of that

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Speaker 3: in this movie than any other movie I can think of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they built an enormous forest for this one, inside

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Speaker 2: the Double O seven stage at Pinewood Studios. That was

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Speaker 2: the studio that was built for nineteen six seventy seven's

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Speaker 2: The Spy Who Loved Me, And interestingly enough, it burned

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Speaker 2: down shortly before filming could wrap on Legend, tragically killing

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Speaker 2: the last two living unicorns.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, no, the unicorns are fine, but some of

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Speaker 2: their final scenes had to be filmed in an actual

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Speaker 2: outdoor location because of this, So if you're watching closely,

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Speaker 2: there may be some unicorn scenes here and there where

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh, that looks like maybe that's for real

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Speaker 2: outdoors instead of this lush and amazing indoor forest they built.

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Speaker 2: But they do a good job of making not necessarily

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Speaker 2: focus on the difference.

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Speaker 3: I love that it goes back and forth and you

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Speaker 3: can't always tell if you're actually outside or if this

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Speaker 3: is an indoor forest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like they just like they are like particles floating

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Speaker 2: around in the air. I'm not sure if it's like

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Speaker 2: pollen or fairy dust. I mean, it's just there's a

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Speaker 2: lot going on. It's a very rich visual texture.

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Speaker 3: In my opinion, this is an almost perfect example of

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Speaker 3: a movie that has all the things it needs to

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Speaker 3: be absolutely wonderful, but it doesn't know exactly how to

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Speaker 3: use them to the greatest effect. So this movie has

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Speaker 3: unbelievably gorgeous sets, some of the most amazing production design

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Speaker 3: of any movie I can think of.

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Speaker 5: Ever.

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Speaker 3: It has stupendous makeup effects and costumes, has a great cast,

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Speaker 3: especially in the sort of the down cheat character roles

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Speaker 3: and the villain roles. It has some intriguing ideas and

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Speaker 3: moments and some fun and funny dialogue in it. It's

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Speaker 3: got unicorns, all the resources and technical skill that is

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Speaker 3: needed to make a best of the best fantasy adventure,

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Speaker 3: and yet somehow the movie always still feels like it

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Speaker 3: kind of doesn't come together right, something kind of falls

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Speaker 3: apart at the core of it. It's like it's not

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Speaker 3: organized correctly toward a toward its storytelling purpose.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you mean, and this is going

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Speaker 2: to be something we're going to discuss back and forth,

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Speaker 2: I think the whole episode. But it's also I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons that I realized that the time

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Speaker 2: was right to discuss legend. We've been talking a lot

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Speaker 2: about alien and alien related content on the show, and

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Speaker 2: I was heavily tempted, and we may still come back

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Speaker 2: and do Alien at some point. But Alien is one

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Speaker 2: of those films, a Ridley Scott film that I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's basically perfect, like it like everything works in that picture,

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Speaker 2: and it's I don't know, it's fun to talk about

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Speaker 2: films we're passionate about and that are you know, are

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Speaker 2: so great that you don't really have anything critical to

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Speaker 2: say about them, But I don't know, sometimes it's a

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Speaker 2: little more engaging maybe to get into something like this,

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Speaker 2: a film that is rougher around some of the edges

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Speaker 2: in some aspects of the production.

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Speaker 3: I very much agree that Alien is basically perfect, but

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Speaker 3: Legend is different. This is not the only Ridley Scott

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Speaker 3: movie that could be described in the way as having

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Speaker 3: so many technical elements that are just at the peak

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Speaker 3: of excellence. You know, maybe has a kind of esthetic perfection,

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Speaker 3: but something just doesn't all work as a narrative, It

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Speaker 3: doesn't fit together in the right way. And I want

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Speaker 3: to be clear that nobody's going to tag me as

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Speaker 3: a Ridley hater, you know, as I already said, I

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Speaker 3: think Alien is basically perfect. I'm not one of those

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Speaker 3: people who thinks Blade Runner is overrated. Some people say

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Speaker 3: that now I don't agree. I think it is brilliant,

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Speaker 3: and I even personally find delight in some of Ridley

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Speaker 3: Scott's more arguably or some would even say objectively bad films,

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Speaker 3: like Hannibal or Alien Covenant. I sort of think, well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: maybe they are bad, but I kind of like them anyway.

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Speaker 3: But apart from that, I think it's interesting that Scott

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Speaker 3: has made a number of these films that at least

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Speaker 3: as I see it, pull together the best of the

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Speaker 3: best in terms of all the technical elements of filmmaking.

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Speaker 3: They look amazing, they sound amazing, they have beautiful and

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Speaker 3: interesting things to show you. But at the same time

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Speaker 3: they can end up feeling kind of disorganized, flabby, and

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Speaker 3: sometimes even irritating. Exercises in storytelling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would broadly agree with all that, And

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Speaker 2: I think maybe a lot of it comes down to

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Speaker 2: the particular way that Ridley Scott seems to command a picture,

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Speaker 2: because yeah, I think he's a tremendous visual director. His storyboards,

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Speaker 2: which are often called Ridley Grams. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: he calls them Ridley Grahams or people who work with

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Speaker 2: them call him Ridley Grahams, but I'm not sure in

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Speaker 2: the origin of the term. But the Ridley Grams alone

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Speaker 2: are always worth a look because on one hand, they're

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Speaker 2: just I mean, they look you could say, here's a

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Speaker 2: comic book past the Ridley Grahams and you would buy it.

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Speaker 2: Like they don't. They don't feel as much like a

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Speaker 2: rough sketch of what is to be filmed as as

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Speaker 2: some storyboards, do you know what I'm saying? M Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And also it's it's provides a lot of insight into

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Speaker 2: how it all comes together, even though again they are

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Speaker 2: essentially blueprints of everything to come. It's where he takes

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Speaker 2: the screenplay written by others and projects them into a

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Speaker 2: more solidified visual form. And like you say, you know

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Speaker 2: that on top of that, really Scott's going to bring

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Speaker 2: in just the absolute best behind the scenes crew and

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Speaker 2: generally just great casting choices as well to make it

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Speaker 2: all come alive. That being said, yeah, he is often

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Speaker 2: criticized for being inconsistent. And I guess one of the

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Speaker 2: weird things here is I'm, by by all means not

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Speaker 2: a Ridley Scott completists. There are a bunch of Ridley

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Speaker 2: Scott films. I haven't seen many of his Yeah, many

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Speaker 2: of his historical pieces, for example, many of his dramas,

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Speaker 2: even some of the big dramas like Film and Luise,

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Speaker 2: I just haven't seen it. And it's it's not on

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Speaker 2: my immediate to watch list. It's not something we could

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Speaker 2: work into weird house, you know. But that one was

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Speaker 2: critically acclaimed and nominated for multiple awards. But yeah, for

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Speaker 2: my money, Alien and Blade Runner are all timers. I

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Speaker 2: personally loved Prometheus an Alien Covenant and really admired Covenant

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Speaker 2: more on a recent rewatch. That one's kind of divisive,

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Speaker 2: but it certainly has its fans, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: its faults, in my opinion, are trivial in the face

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Speaker 2: of everything it does. Right. Hannibals, that's another weird one

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Speaker 2: to look at. Hannibal is one I would almost consider

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Speaker 2: doing for Weirdhouse as well, because I remember when the

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Speaker 2: novel came out and it was I thought it was

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Speaker 2: kind of a mess and kind of repellent, And if anything,

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Speaker 2: the film improved matters by cutting out some of the

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Speaker 2: more lurid elements and finding its own sort of strange,

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Speaker 2: grotesque tale to tell again with a stunning cast, great visuals,

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Speaker 2: and this kind of like you know, baroque awfulness that

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Speaker 2: Scott does so well. But yeah, that's one I probably

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Speaker 2: need to rewatch, but it's it's also not one I'm

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Speaker 2: in a super hurry to see again.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Ridley has a kind of magic that

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Speaker 3: even when he makes a movie that I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to go out and defend, I don't think is a

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Speaker 3: great movie. I do want to keep looking at it. Usually,

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Speaker 3: like I will come back to these movies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean Ridley is going to bring

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Speaker 2: you somewhere you haven't been before, and in all likelihood,

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Speaker 2: no one else is going to bring you to, you know,

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Speaker 2: And I think that's one thing I really love about Covenant.

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Speaker 2: That's one thing that I even admire about Hannibal is

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Speaker 2: like there have even been other adaptations of the source

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Speaker 2: material for Hannibal, and that adaptation as well has its

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Speaker 2: own visual flare, but it's not quite the same. You know.

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Speaker 2: There's just something about the riddle is really scott approach

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Speaker 2: to filmmaking that is just really going to sing.

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Speaker 3: Now, Rob, I'm curious about your your own viewing history

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Speaker 3: with Legend because mine is a bit confused. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to say what I think it was, but I'm not

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Speaker 3: positive about this. I think the order for me goes.

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Speaker 3: I saw pieces of this movie on TV growing up,

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Speaker 3: so you know, running it, I don't know which cut

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Speaker 3: they'd be airing on TV. Well, we'll have to talk

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Speaker 3: about the multiple cuts of the film. I'd guess probably

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Speaker 3: the US theatrical cut, but bits of it on TV

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Speaker 3: where I was just seeing like a big devil with

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Speaker 3: gigantic horns. That's very striking and hard to forget Mia

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Speaker 3: Sara wearing a kind of like triangle shaped black dress

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Speaker 3: with goth makeup on, and seeing Tom Cruise's legs and

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Speaker 3: thinking I didn't know Tom Cruise was ever in a

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Speaker 3: fantasy movie like this. I'm not sure what's going on,

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Speaker 3: but it just kind of getting past me, you know.

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Speaker 3: I'd see a little bit here and there, and then

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Speaker 3: at some point I saw the film in full, and

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Speaker 3: I don't know what cut it was, but I remember

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Speaker 3: thinking it was beautiful and I was mighty impressed by

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Speaker 3: it in some ways. But I do kind of remember

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Speaker 3: feeling tempted to fall asleep at certain parts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there are plenty of stretches of this

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Speaker 2: film that are very hypnotic and also in places a

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Speaker 2: little slow especially. I mean it depends on the cut

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Speaker 2: of the film, which we'll get into there. I think

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Speaker 2: two major cuts and probably four step rick cuts you

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Speaker 2: could point to. But with me, it's possible I saw

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Speaker 2: part of it on TV at some point, or had

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Speaker 2: seen a VHS box for it certainly previously. But my

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Speaker 2: clear memory was being homesick from school one day and

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Speaker 2: I had a couple of movies rented movies to watch.

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Speaker 2: One of them was Highlander and the other was this

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Speaker 2: And I do remember from the moment the VHS type

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Speaker 2: started playing the film proper. I remember, you know, getting

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Speaker 2: hit with that Tangerine dream score, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: the visuals began to kick in, and I realized right

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Speaker 2: away there was something special about this one. You know,

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Speaker 2: this was an enthralling dark fantasy world that I just

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Speaker 2: hadn't seen anything like this on the screen before. You know,

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Speaker 2: like you look back to this time period and like,

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Speaker 2: what else, what else did you have in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: five that really, I mean, that gave you live action

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Speaker 2: fantasy at all, but much much more to the point,

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Speaker 2: gave you live action fantasy that was this dark in

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Speaker 2: its texture, you know. I mean, nowadays you can easily

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Speaker 2: point to Peter Jackson Florida, the Rings films, which really

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Speaker 2: get in there with all the more door stuff and

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Speaker 2: that works in the goblins and deliver it to you know,

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Speaker 2: in spades. But at the time, like this was kind

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Speaker 2: of this is as deep as dark and dark as

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Speaker 2: it got.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess you've got the different sort of sub

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Speaker 3: genres of fantasy. So like by the mid eighties you

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Speaker 3: had you had Conan type stuff, which could be dark,

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Speaker 3: but was more I don't know, it was more gritty

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Speaker 3: and though it had magic in it was more brutal

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Speaker 3: and realistic overall, and was more pitched at a I

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Speaker 3: don't know if this is the right word, but a

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Speaker 3: mature audience. You know, it was the original Cone and

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Speaker 3: rated R. Surely not or was it?

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Speaker 2: I believe it was an R.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh okay, I mean so just like very violent,

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Speaker 3: kind of gritty, barbarian fantasy. You had that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Of course, you had the more animated approach off into

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Speaker 3: high fantasy type stuff. But I think it's interesting that

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Speaker 3: Legend is is dark fantasy that shows you a lot

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Speaker 3: of scary, devilish kind of stuff, but at its core

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Speaker 3: it is a fairy tale. It's not a grim, gritty,

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Speaker 3: more to kind of muscle and steel fantasy like the

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Speaker 3: Conan movies. It's a fairy tale with a broad fairy

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Speaker 3: tale kind of brushstroke to it. But it's also very dark.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think this is another thing that even

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Speaker 2: early on I realized there was kind of a disconnect

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Speaker 2: with because the visual style of Legend is insanely epic,

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Speaker 2: the actual story that it tells is maybe it. I

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Speaker 2: mean it has high stakes, like you know, the the world,

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Speaker 2: it's about saving the world, but in many other respects

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Speaker 2: it's less epic. The story is a little more simplified

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Speaker 2: and more I think just sort of fairy tale in form.

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Speaker 2: So it's yeah, it feels it feels like the visuals

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Speaker 2: are like far out delivering the actual story.

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Speaker 3: Can I suggest I think a reason why it feels

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Speaker 3: less epic. I think it's because it's a fairly tight

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Speaker 3: character list, Like there are not we never see masses

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Speaker 3: of people or armies or anything like that in this movie.

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Speaker 3: It's actually quite intimate in terms of the characters. The

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Speaker 3: only regular people we ever meet in the movie is like,

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Speaker 3: is a single cottage full of peasants in the forest?

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Speaker 3: You know that Miasarra's character goes to visit at the

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Speaker 3: beginning of the movie. And so there's no sense at

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Speaker 3: all of kind of the broader world of peoples and

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Speaker 3: armies clashing or anything like that. I mean, we are

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Speaker 3: too believe that somewhere out there there is a castle

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Speaker 3: where the king Miasara's father lives and all that, but

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Speaker 3: we never see them. So the characters almost kind of

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Speaker 3: exist in this private, intimate kind of fantasy Forrest dream World.

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Speaker 3: And so though we know that the fate of the

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Speaker 3: entire world is at stake with what happens to the

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Speaker 3: unicorns in the movie, we never see mighty forces coming together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think that's a solid red.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because just looking at the picture, they're less than

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Speaker 2: less than twenty people in the whole world, but we

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Speaker 2: know that they're out there. There's supposed to be a castle,

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Speaker 2: there's supposed to be these more expansive civilizations, we assume.

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Speaker 3: Now, Rob, maybe this is a good place to address

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Speaker 3: the different cuts of the movie. Because when you picked

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Speaker 3: Legend for the show and you told me we're going

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Speaker 3: to be watching the director's cut, which is not the

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Speaker 3: cut that has a Tangerine Dream score, I was quite

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Speaker 3: confused how you could make this selection. But this is

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Speaker 3: preferred by most fans of the movie. They're going to

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Speaker 3: say that the director's cut, which is a good bit

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Speaker 3: longer and has a traditional orchestrated Jerry Goldsmith's score instead

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Speaker 3: of the Tangerine Dream score. Most people say this is

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Speaker 3: massively preferable to the US theatrical version.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the vibe. I've always gotten, and so

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Speaker 2: I felt like, well, if we're going to talk about Legend,

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Speaker 2: even though I'm all my nostalgia and my love is

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Speaker 2: built up around this theatrical cut, it's going to be

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Speaker 2: a little weird if we come in and then we're saying, well,

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Speaker 2: this this movie has problems, and then people are going

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Speaker 2: to say, well, did you watch the director's cut, and

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Speaker 2: we'll say no, no, we just watched the one that

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Speaker 2: we're familiar with, so and you know, I want to.

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Speaker 2: I thought, well, this is a way to experience a

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Speaker 2: film that I do have nostalgia for and then I

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Speaker 2: do admire in many ways. It's experiencing it in a

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Speaker 2: different light. So yeah, I was like, let's do director's

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Speaker 2: cut and then we can compare.

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Speaker 3: To be clear, I still think the director's cut has problems.

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Speaker 2: But yeah it does.

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Speaker 3: I will say, on rewatching it, I was expecting, you know,

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Speaker 3: I sort of had this idea in my memory that

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Speaker 3: it was a very beautiful looking movie that had massive

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Speaker 3: narrative of deficiencies. I don't know which cut it was

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Speaker 3: I saw in you know, the intervening years in between

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Speaker 3: seeing Bits on TV and this rewatch. It may have

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Speaker 3: been theatrical may have been Director's cut. I'm just not sure,

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Speaker 3: but I thought the film was not as bad as

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Speaker 3: I remembered in terms of putting together a cohesive narrative.

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Speaker 3: I still think it's flawed, but it's better than I

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Speaker 3: would have said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'll get into some particular examples of ways

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Speaker 2: that I think that the director's cut improves upon the

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Speaker 2: theatrical cut, and I do want to also go ahead

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Speaker 2: and throw in here that I think there are maybe

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Speaker 2: like four different cuts total that have been out there

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Speaker 2: and the ecosystem of movie viewing the director's cut, which

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Speaker 2: came out years later, decades later. I think there's the

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Speaker 2: there's the US theatrical cut, there's the euro theatrical cut

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Speaker 2: that I think is in large part, you know, reflected

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Speaker 2: in the director's cut. And then there's apparently some sort

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Speaker 2: of a TV cut out there that I think was

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Speaker 2: US theatrical cut with some extra added stuff added in

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Speaker 2: to fill out a certain run time, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: However, one other thing I want to say about the

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Speaker 3: different cuts is that I was not able. I didn't

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Speaker 3: have time to watch the US theatrical cut in full,

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Speaker 3: but I watched the full director's cut, and then the

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Speaker 3: first I don't know ten minutes of the US theatrical cut.

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Speaker 3: And the difference is not just that there is more

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Speaker 3: stuff in the director's cut that was taken out for

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Speaker 3: the theatrical That is not the only difference. There is

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Speaker 3: a very different style and approach. For example, in the

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Speaker 3: opening scenes, the US theatrical cut just straight up shows

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Speaker 3: you the villain's face, which is delayed for a long time.

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Speaker 3: In the director's cut, there's a big build up. And

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Speaker 3: so I perceived the US theatrical version to be significantly

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Speaker 3: more clumsy and awkward in its edit from the very beginning,

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Speaker 3: even without talking about major differences in what material is there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, Like it feels like the US theatrical cut

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Speaker 2: was very much an attempt to make everything tighter and

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Speaker 2: more exciting at the beginning, and like, I guess to

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Speaker 2: keep people from falling asleep or leaving the theater or something.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. But in doing so, yeah, they make

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Speaker 2: some choices like this, like let's go ahead and show

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Speaker 2: them darkness in full. Let's go ahead and show them

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Speaker 2: the tree, Let's go ahead and show them the hell kitchens.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna go ahead and roll out all of some

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Speaker 2: of our at least a glimpse of some of our

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Speaker 2: big set pieces early on, and they have this scrolling

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Speaker 2: intro on the screen that really feels like the abstract

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Speaker 2: from a peer reviewed science paper, you know, where it

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Speaker 2: just lays out all the basics of the hypothesis, tells

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Speaker 2: you what the experiments were and the findings right up top,

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Speaker 2: whereas the director's cut does not do this. The director's

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Speaker 2: cut lets you pick up on this or not pick

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Speaker 2: up on it on your own. But the yeah, the

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Speaker 2: the US theatrical cut basically force feeds it to you.

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Speaker 3: Now, on one hand, you can kind of understand the

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Speaker 3: impetus behind the theatrical cut because you were saying they

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Speaker 3: were trying to make it tighter and more exciting right

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Speaker 3: at the beginning. I don't know if the director's cut

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Speaker 3: needed to be more exciting right at the beginning, but

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Speaker 3: I will say the first twenty or thirty minutes of

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Speaker 3: the director's cut, it happens at a very dreamy, lilting pace,

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Speaker 3: and that can feel particularly it can have a kind

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Speaker 3: of sedative effect, especially when you know Tom Cruise and

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Speaker 3: Mia Sarah are just kind of frolicking around in the

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Speaker 3: forest and you know, looking at the flowers and stuff,

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Speaker 3: I was feeling the call of sleep at those times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, it's very hypnotic and dream like as well

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Speaker 2: in these sequences, and be watching all unicorn run and

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Speaker 2: slow motion through an unreal forest. Yeah, I mean, you're

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Speaker 2: supposed to feel at peace at that point.

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Speaker 3: I'm not knocking it too much. I'm just saying, like

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Speaker 3: I can understand somebody watching this and saying the first

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Speaker 3: third of it is slow. You've got to have some

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Speaker 3: patience to go with it at the beginning there. But

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Speaker 3: I agree that that the way they tightened it in

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Speaker 3: the US version is not an improvement. Instead, it just

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Speaker 3: sort of like it kind of blows the air out

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Speaker 3: of the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's go ahead and hear a little

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Speaker 2: little trailer audio, not the full trailer, but just a

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Speaker 2: little of it to get a certain taste of it.

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Speaker 5: There is a balance to the universe. The struggle to

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Speaker 5: maintain that balance is the stuff of religions. For there

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Speaker 5: can be no good without evil, no love without hate.

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Speaker 5: Life needs death, Innocence creeds last. There can be no

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Speaker 5: heaven without hell. No light will out.

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Speaker 4: Darkness.

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Speaker 2: All right, if you want to go out and watch Legend. Well,

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Speaker 2: you can stream, and I'm mostly speaking to the US

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Speaker 2: situation here. I'm not sure what availability is like in Europe, where,

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Speaker 2: of course there was a different theatrical cut. But at

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Speaker 2: least here in the United States you can stream Legend

387
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Speaker 2: in a number of places. You can buy it rent

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Speaker 2: it digitally, but at least currently, for the director's cut,

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Speaker 2: you'll need to hunt that up on disc. Fortunately, there's

390
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Speaker 2: a great Arrow Blu ray of the film that features

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Speaker 2: both the US theatrical cut and the director's cut, plus

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Speaker 2: loads of extras. This is the version that I rented

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Speaker 2: from Video Drome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I watched the Arrow Blu ray, and Robert, I

395
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Speaker 3: don't know if you have the same thing to me.

396
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Speaker 3: I was kind of surprised by how much grain it

397
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Speaker 3: still felt like there was in the film, Like it

398
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Speaker 3: seemed like something that would or could have been sharpened

399
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Speaker 3: up a good bit, but it wasn't. And I don't

400
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Speaker 3: know if that's for lack of effort or if that's

401
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 3: an intentional choice about this release.

402
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't sure about that either. I'm not tech

403
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Speaker 2: savvy enough on their whole remastering scenario, but certainly we've

404
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 2: seen some older films that have been remastered to like

405
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: just a level of perfection that certainly influences your viewing

406
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Speaker 2: of other films. You know, why why aren't other films

407
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Speaker 2: as flawless looking as this one? So I don't know

408
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Speaker 2: what exactly, you know, the choices or hurdles were with

409
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: this one, but there was more grain than I expected.

410
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Speaker 2: But still it did not get in the way of

411
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Speaker 2: appreciating these visuals in the long run.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: I almost wonder if it's a oh, I don't know,

414
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Speaker 3: kind of a film version of like tea staining a

415
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Speaker 3: docum meant to make it look ancient, you know that

416
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Speaker 3: I may maybe there was a concern that if it

417
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Speaker 3: was sharpened up too much, it wouldn't have the kind

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Speaker 3: of the dreamy fairy tale effect that they were going for.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if these, you know, I'd have to go

420
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Speaker 2: back and rewatch. But I wonder if these were some

421
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Speaker 2: of the restored segments in the director's cut. I know,

422
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Speaker 2: sometimes there's a sourcing issue there, and you have to

423
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Speaker 2: sort of make do with what you can get when

424
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Speaker 2: you're restoring sequences and scenes that were not used in

425
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Speaker 2: like the main cut of the film. Possibly, all right,

426
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Speaker 2: let's get into the people involved in this one, starting

427
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: at the top, of course, with Sir Ridley Scott born

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty seven, highly successful and influential English filmmaker who,

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00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 2: at eighty six years old and turns eighty seven in

430
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Speaker 2: just a few months, shows no signs of slowing down,

431
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: is directing and producing. I mean, it's really quite an inspiring.

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Speaker 2: He worked on projects as a TV production designer from

433
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two through nineteen sixty five, and his first

434
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: directorial credit was a nineteen sixty five episode of a

435
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: police series in the UK called Z Cars.

436
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 3: Sounds great, yeap.

437
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: His debut film was, of course, nineteen seventy seven's The Duellists,

438
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: starring Keith Carrodine, Harvey Kaiitel and Albert Finney, a serious

439
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: historical drama that is cited as a key inspiration on Highlander.

440
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 3: I've wanted to see this for years, but I never have.

441
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one kind of ends up falling through the

442
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: cracks for me because it is it's a Ridley Scott

443
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: period piece. And I mean I have seen some of

444
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: his historical films, of course, I've seen Gladiator, but I

445
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: don't know, they're just not the ones that I'm drawn

446
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: to as much. So he followed this up, of course

447
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine with Alien and then in eighty

448
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: two with Blade Runner. He tackled some smaller projects during

449
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: that time, including the Apple Mac nineteen eighty fourmmercial and

450
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 2: so already a really strong genre heavy early career, and

451
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: then comes Legend, a fairy tale, a fantasy, and this

452
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: of course ends up proving a commercial failure upon release,

453
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: and from here we see Ridley Scott veer off into

454
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: historical crime and drama pictures. He doesn't return to science

455
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: fiction or fantasy for twenty seven years, returning to the

456
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: Alien franchise with Prometheus in twenty twelve. Then he did

457
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen's The Martian, which it is quite good as

458
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: well based on the novel, and then he did twenty

459
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: seventeen's Alien Covenant and two episodes of the super weird,

460
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: very original and criminally canceled Max series Raised by Wolves,

461
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: which he also produced. Now as a producer, he's also

462
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: had a hand in many other great films and series,

463
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: including AMC's The Terror, which I really enjoyed. The recent

464
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: Alien Romulus is of course a Scott free production, and

465
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: Academy Award nominations for Ridley Scott include nineteen ninety two's

466
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 2: Film and Luise, two thousand and ones, Gladiator, two thousand

467
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: and two's Black Hawk Down, and twenty sixteen's The Martian.

468
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: I should note that Ridley Scott, as far as I

469
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: can tell, has never directed what you'd truly call a

470
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 2: kids movie or maybe even a family movie. This really

471
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: legend for eighty five is really the best case you

472
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 2: can make for either category. But at the same time,

473
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: it is just way too dark, both visually and thematically

474
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: for children.

475
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is who this is one of those who

476
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 3: is this four movies. I mean, I don't have a

477
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 3: problem enjoying it, because I'm the kind of adults that

478
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 3: can enjoy a fairy tale. But it is clearly it's

479
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: a fairy tale which is going to make a lot

480
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: of adults think, oh, this movie is not meant for me.

481
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: And while the movie it doesn't have a lot of

482
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: like explicit like sex or violence in it, it really

483
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 3: doesn't seem appropriate for kids because of the way that

484
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 3: it is. I don't know, it has kind of erotic undercurrents,

485
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 3: and it has a lot of very scary suggestions of violence,

486
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 3: even if you're not seeing explicit like blood and guts

487
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 3: on screen.

488
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also a subtext that I'll get back to

489
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: that seems to deal with with sin and shame. Yeah,

490
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: in ways that I just don't feel as fun for

491
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: you know, ten and twelve.

492
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 3: Year olds, right, So it's like it's a fairy tale

493
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 3: but not probably not appropriate for kids. So you're limiting

494
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 3: your audience here.

495
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the screenwriter on this one was William Hertzberg,

496
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: who lived nineteen forty one through twenty seventeen American writer,

497
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: best known for his work on this film, as well

498
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: as as his nineteen seventy eight horror novel Falling Angel

499
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 2: that was adapted into the nineteen eighty seven Alan Parker

500
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: movie Angel Heart. I did read this book ages ago,

501
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 2: and I remember liking it. I remember liking it more

502
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: than I liked the actual film, all right, Now, getting

503
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: into the cast, Yeah, this is a Tom Cruise movie,

504
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 2: but it's also not a Tom Cruise movie in the

505
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: sense that it from the modern perspective of what you

506
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 2: expect from a Tom Cruise movie. It's not that it's

507
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 2: something different, it's something a little it's like proto Tom

508
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: Cruise movie.

509
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 3: This is from before Tom Cruise was Tom Cruise. I

510
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: mean he was a star at this time, I think

511
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 3: because he'd already been in risky business, right, that's correct. Yeah, okay,

512
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 3: so he was like a young actor who'd been in

513
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 3: at least one or two big movies. So like he

514
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: wasn't a nobody at the time, but he also was

515
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 3: not the like the Hollywood juggernaut that we know today.

516
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: He was like a young, up and coming, good looking actor.

517
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean today Tom Cruise is someone that is

518
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: known around the world. He's like one of, if not

519
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: the most bankable stars in Hollywood. You know, you put

520
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: him in Blockbusters. That's where he lives, that's his ecosystem,

521
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 2: and he's one of these people too that it's like

522
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: he's more industry than man. You almost don't think of

523
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: Tom Cruise as an individual, but he's like an industry

524
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: built around somebody that that is almost as much myth

525
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: as as human, if not more myth than human, at

526
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: least from our perspective. Outside of that.

527
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of built around, I mean, now I think

528
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 3: some of his movies they build around some stunts he

529
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: wants to do. He's like, so he'll be a producer

530
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: on the movie. He's like, here, I'm going to cling

531
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: to the side of an airplane or something. Write a

532
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: script around that.

533
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

534
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: So Legend was only his seventh film role. His debut

535
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: part was in nineteen eighty one's Endless Love, and he

536
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: also had a supporting role in Taps the same year.

537
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: But in eighty two he had a starring role in

538
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: the teen comedy Losing It, and nineteen eighty three was

539
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: a real breakout year with parts in Francis Ford Coppola's

540
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: The Outsiders and the starring role in both Risky Business

541
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: and the football movie All the Right Moves. So the

542
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: time was right for Tom Cruise to do a genre film,

543
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: but not a B movie, you know, not a B

544
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: sci fi or horror movie on your way up, but

545
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, a lavish twenty five million dollar that,

546
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: of course wouldn't quite break even at the box office.

547
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: So the next year he would go on to star

548
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: in the mega hit Top Gun, and I guess his

549
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 2: legacy was assured at that point. But then again, it's

550
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: kind of with Tom Cruise. It's easy to say that

551
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: because he has proven to have this real staying power

552
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: in Hollywood and has remained this juggernaut despite you know,

553
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: various things popping up that would you know, you might

554
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 2: expect to derail some careers or certainly the occasional film

555
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: that doesn't deliver to the degree that producers would like.

556
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: For the most part, he has remained stable up there,

557
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: and it's still big business.

558
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. So from what I understand, apart from weird movie connoisseurs,

559
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: if you're just looking at it from the kind of

560
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 3: Hollywood business point of view, I think Legend would have

561
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: long been mainly regarded as a as an early misstep

562
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 3: in the career of Tom Cruise. You know, it's just

563
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: like a this was some weird, failed little movie that

564
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise did early on that critics hated and audiences

565
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: hated too, and just didn't go anywhere. But then he

566
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: corrected course and was in top gun.

567
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: Though it is kind of interesting that I don't think

568
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: he would come back to any genre pictures like this

569
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: for a while, though he would in time come back

570
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: and do you know, at least some weirder and sci

571
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: fi type material, but still very much like blockbuster angled

572
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: material at the same time. But that was the case

573
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: with this film as well. This film was meant to

574
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: be a big success at the box office. That's why

575
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 2: they spent twenty five million dollars on it.

576
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: Wait, is this the first time we've talked about either

577
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise or Ridley Scott on Weird House?

578
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: The first time they've come up that we've looked at

579
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: something they were either involved with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So

580
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: they're both, you know, huge mainstream successes. Though when Ridley

581
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: wants to go weird, he definitely I think goes weirder

582
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: than Tom Cruise goes weird.

583
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

584
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: Well, in terms of movie plots, yes, And part of

585
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: this too is like, what is Tom Cruiser's role in

586
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: a picture? It is the leading man, and it has

587
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: always been the leading man with you know, a few

588
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: small caveats along the way, you know you're only going

589
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: to go so weird in the kind of role that

590
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: Tom Cruise plays. Well, maybe there's an alternate dimension where

591
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 2: he ends up playing a bunch of villains and it's

592
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: really fascinating as well. I don't know, but anyway, Cruz

593
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: was twenty three at the time, and we should acknowledge

594
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: that he was I think, by many estimates, dangerously hot.

595
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: I was looking around for some like outside the podcast

596
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: commentary on this, and I found some words from the

597
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: blogger Jin at ep bot dot com, who has a

598
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: post titled Legend, the thirty six year old movie that's

599
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: a love letter to Tom Cruise's thighs and other thoughts.

600
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 3: I could not help but notice that the camera is

601
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: all up in Tom Cruise's upper thighs. Yes, it's yeah,

602
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: so they gave him a costume like once he gets

603
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: his armor on, its basically like a short tunic. He

604
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: wears no pants most of the movie, and just yeah,

605
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: it's it's all up in his haunches.

606
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: Here's a quote from that post by Jen at epbot

607
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: dot com. Tom Cruise was twenty two during filming, and

608
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: fresh off the set of Risky Business, the movie that

609
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: gave us the world famous underwear dance. Not to be outdone,

610
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: the producers of Legend decided Tom would not only be

611
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: pantiless the entire movie, he would also be prohibited from

612
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: walking upright for most of it.

613
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: I noticed the same thing. He is like squatting or

614
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: crawling or on the ground in nearly every shot of

615
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: the movie.

616
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess part of this is that he

617
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: is kind of like a fairal creature. You know, he

618
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: especially early on like he is a he's a boy

619
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: of the woods. He's kind of a Peter Pan. Yeah,

620
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: he's a little loopine, so I guess that's part of

621
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: the whole attraction here. I also want to note that

622
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: this is cruse prebraces, so he doesn't have that perfect

623
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: Holly would smile yet, but he has like he has

624
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: a smile befitting of a fairal young man in a

625
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 2: fantasy world, which I think is perfect. He also has

626
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: like a bit of a unibrow going on, like not

627
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: a full unibrow, but like his brows are a little

628
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: more connected, you know, which again is also perfect for

629
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: a fairal young man running around the woods falling in

630
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: love with princesses.

631
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: I guess.

632
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: So, speaking of that princess, the princess is, of course

633
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: played by Mia Sara born in nineteen sixty seven. This

634
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: is Lily, and we talked about her previously on Weird

635
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: How Cinema because she was in nineteen ninety four's time

636
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: cop Ah.

637
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 3: Yes, I was thinking this is not our first Mia

638
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 3: Sarah film.

639
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was. This was her first film role, following

640
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: just of one shot I think on TVs. All in

641
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: the Family Legend and Labyrinth were shooting next to each

642
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: other at the same time here, and the casts and

643
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: crew apparently frequently mingled. And this is where she would

644
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: meet her future husband Brian Henson.

645
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 3: Oh okay, but was she in Time Cop?

646
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 5: Yes?

647
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 3: She was, So you can go back and check out

648
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 3: her episode on Time Cop if you want. Now. Is

649
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 3: this also our first Tim Curry movie on Weird House?

650
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: This is the first time we have gotten to talk

651
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: about Tim Curry. There was a time when you were

652
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: out in parental leave and Annie Reese came on the

653
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: show and we talked about Congo.

654
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: Oh my Lord, where he plays Herkimer Hamolka, formerly of Romania,

655
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: traveling the world and doing good.

656
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: Yes, another great scene chewing performance, but not as the

657
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 2: primary antagonist, second or third level antagonist.

658
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 3: Tim Curry in Congo is one of the most hilarious

659
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: movie acting jobs I can think of ever.

660
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 5: He is.

661
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: I love Tim Curry. He is just a delight every time.

662
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it plays darkness in this Born nineteen forty six. Yeah,

663
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: just a true legend of stage, screen and TV. He was,

664
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: of course doctor Frankenfurter in The Rocky Horror Picture Show

665
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy five and was in the original

666
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 2: stage version as well. He was Wadsworth nineteen eighty five's

667
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: Clue Other memorable films and Clue, Let's say There's Annie,

668
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: There's the nineteen ninety adaptation of it, in which he

669
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: played penny Wise, the dancing clown. And he's also done

670
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: a great deal of voice work over the years. I know,

671
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: outside of Weird House cinema, you and I have also

672
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: discussed his triple role in the Tales from the Crypt

673
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: episode Death of Some Salesman.

674
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 3: Oh, where he terrorizes Ed Begley Junior. Right, Ed Begley

675
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 3: Junior is like he's like some kind of corrupt salesman

676
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: or something.

677
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, obviously just a terrific all around performer.

678
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: Been in a share of more than his share of

679
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: bad movies as well, but some of the other like

680
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: credits worth noting. Nineteen ninety is The Hunt for the

681
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: Red October nineteen ninety two's Fern Gully, ninety three's The

682
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 2: Three Musketeers, ninety four is The Shadow, and nineteen ninety

683
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: six is Muppet Treasure Island. But like, even if it's

684
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: a not a great film, you know that Tim Curry

685
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: is going to be amusing in it no matter what.

686
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: Now, this movie makes an interesting decision, which is legend

687
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: takes a solid gold care actor with charm for Miles

688
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 3: and hides him behind forty seven pounds of makeup. He

689
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 3: is under so much makeup in this movie it is

690
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 3: hard to believe. And the makeup I think looks amazing.

691
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's an interesting way to like there's a

692
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: trade off here, isn't there. It's it's almost like maybe

693
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: they did have to cast somebody with with Tim Curry's

694
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 3: you know, kind of not just screen presence, but stage

695
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 3: presence almost like it's almost like it requires a type

696
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 3: of stage acting to get through the makeup to the camera.

697
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?

698
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 5: Yeah?

699
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,479
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think it is a huge testament to both

700
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: Curry and the effects crew that this works as tremendously

701
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: well as it does. That it doesn't feel like you've

702
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: buried Tim Curry and a bunch of prosthetics that you know,

703
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: that it doesn't feel like you have something that only

704
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 2: works in close up shots or something like. They managed

705
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: to make this feel like a cohesive living being as

706
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: opposed to know what it could have been.

707
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: Of course, Tim Curry plays the main villain in the movie.

708
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: I don't know if we already said this, but he

709
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: is like the devil essentially, he's the lord of darkness,

710
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 3: and he has I don't know how long do you

711
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: think his horns are. I mean, he's got so much

712
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 3: horn on his head it looks like his neck muscles

713
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 3: should be sore.

714
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 2: It is. I mean, if you haven't seen it, do

715
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: look up at least images of this character, because it

716
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: is essentially an outrageous red devil. Men aitar that. It

717
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: feels like it's about eight feet tall, not counting the horns.

718
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 2: So it is a bold design choice, and they manage

719
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: to make it work.

720
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 3: You know who else in this movie I feel like

721
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 3: really acts through heavy makeup and just shines right through

722
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 3: a character design is Alice Playton as blicks.

723
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my god, she's so good in this. She

724
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 2: lived nineteen forty seven through twenty eleven stage actor with

725
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: a lot of Broadway and off Broadway credits, TV and

726
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 2: film credits going back to sixty three. But she's often

727
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: best remembered for her voice because she has this this

728
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: kind of childlike voice that she can utilize and she

729
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 2: can perfectly lean into really haunting an Uncanny Territory with it.

730
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 2: She voiced a demon in nineteen eighty two's Amityville to

731
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: the Possession. She has also voice credits and things like

732
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one's Heavy Metal nineteen eighty six is My

733
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: Little Pony the movie. She was also in twelve episodes

734
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: of The Croft Super Show in seventy six. But yeah,

735
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: in this she plays the scheming goblin blicks like just

736
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 2: a perfect goblin that also has an outrageous design in play,

737
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 2: you know, with the long nose and like elongated head,

738
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: just so nasty, so vicious looking, and she just shines here.

739
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 3: Appears to be made of rot in a way, almost

740
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: kind of an undead looking sort of goblin, and also

741
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: speaks in rhyming couplets, which I love. I would say that,

742
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 3: you know, it's weird because we were saying the way

743
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 3: in which this movie falls short, despite all of its

744
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 3: great elements, is in its cohesiveness as a story. So

745
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: you might think from that the script is weak, but

746
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 3: actually I think moment to moment, line to line, the

747
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: script is pretty strong. Like the dialogue is good, and

748
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: so this character speaks in rhyming couplets that are mostly

749
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: I think great rhyming couplets. They're very pleasing. So like

750
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: when Blick's is looking down on Princess Lily, he says,

751
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 3: maybe innocent, maybe sweet, ain't half as nice as rotting meat.

752
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 3: And Clayton really sells the couplets like I just believe

753
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 3: that this is how Blicks talks.

754
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: Yes, and indeed like just such a goblin, like just

755
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: delights in grotesqueness and depravity, but not within without any

756
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 2: underlying argument for why that is the superior choice. It's

757
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 2: just that is just the texture of Blix's life and

758
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: Blix's values, and Blix is very vocal about his preferences here.

759
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

760
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: Now, interestingly enough, I mentioned that Alice Clayton's voice like

761
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 2: it has this she can lean into these uncanny aspects,

762
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: but she can also get kind of like a childlike

763
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: voice going on as well. She actually dubs the character

764
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: Honeythorn Gump.

765
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 3: Oh the picture that makes sense.

766
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: Honey Thorn Gump is our elf, our youthful elf guy

767
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: who's helping out, played physically here by David Bennett born

768
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six, a German actor at the time eighteen

769
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: or nineteen years old, but he looks younger and yeah,

770
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: we don't hear his actual voice. I've read that producers

771
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: thought he sounded too German, which I'm kind of like,

772
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 2: why did you cast a German actor? I didn't want

773
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: him to sound potentially German. But anyway, then it is

774
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: still really good in this It's still a very good

775
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 2: physical performance even though we don't hear his voice and

776
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 2: he's been working in German productions. For Age is still

777
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: active now, started out at an early age. His other

778
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 2: like big international credit is probably nineteen seventy nine's The

779
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 2: ten Drum.

780
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 3: I think the job they did dubbing him. I didn't

781
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 3: realize while I was watching that that was also Alice

782
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 3: Playton doing his voice. But I think the dubbing is fantastic.

783
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 3: It totally matches the pace of the character speaking, and

784
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 3: instead of feeling uncanny and unpleasant, as some post production

785
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: dubbing without live sound can be, instead it fits the

786
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: character the way that his voice doesn't feel like it's

787
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 3: coming like it's what should be coming out of his

788
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: mouth works and makes him feel more kind of magical.

789
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree, I would agree, So, yeah, it

790
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: didn't throw me off. It's one of those things I

791
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: only picked up on much later reading about the production.

792
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 2: All Right, now, I want to probably try and speed

793
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: things along here a little bit, so I'm going to

794
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: spend less time than I should, perhaps on some of

795
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 2: the additional cast members. We have a number of various

796
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 2: Elvin folk that are involved in the plot. For instance,

797
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 2: they're Screwball, played by the tremendous Billy Barty, who lived

798
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty four to through the year two thousand, three

799
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 2: foot nine character actor who often played wise, cracking, little

800
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 2: person roles, but he instantly stands out in any ensemble

801
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 2: cast because he is at the heart just a tremendous

802
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: character actor. His uncredited work goes back to I believe

803
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty and apparently includes a very small part as

804
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: the baby in nineteen thirty five's Bride of Frankenstein. So

805
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: one of those early scenes with the little miniature people

806
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: in the vials.

807
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: Wow, I didn't realize that so.

808
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: Many credits to Billy Barty, but they include the likes

809
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 2: of Roger Corman's The Undead in nineteen fifty seven. In

810
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven's Masters of the Universe film, he has

811
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: a memorable role in that He's in eighty eight Willow,

812
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: but He also did some voice acting as well, like

813
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: nineteen nine he's the rescuers down under all right, some

814
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 2: of the other folks here, we have Brown Tom, who

815
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: I guess is kind of a leprechaun. He's part of

816
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: the good guy Elvin Cork here. He's played by Cork Hubert,

817
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: who lived nineteen fifty two through two thousand and three.

818
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 2: A four foot eleven actor. His other credits include eighty

819
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: one's cave Man under the Rainbow from eighty one and

820
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine sent Bat of the Seven Seas.

821
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 3: He has a real dad joke moment in the movie

822
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 3: that I think works pretty well.

823
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

824
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 2: There's also there's a scene where he thinks he's been shot.

825
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: What I'm talking about? Yeah, yah, yeah, I love that.

826
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: That's great. Okay, all right, we have Pox. Pox is

827
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 2: a pig demon and somewhere underneath all of the prosthetics

828
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: for this role, there is a man by the name

829
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: of Peter O'Farrell. I couldn't find any additional information about

830
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: this actor in terms of his you know, when he

831
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: was born and so forth by His other credits include

832
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty Hawk the Slayer, nineteen eighty five, Santa Claus

833
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: and he has a role in two thousand and two

834
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. All right, we

835
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: also have Blunder. We'll get into Blunder in a bit.

836
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: He's kind of he's one faction then another. But he

837
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: is played by Kira and Shaw born nineteen fifty six,

838
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: a four foot one and a half tall actor who

839
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: is Elijah Woods scale double in all three Lord of

840
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: the Rings films. His other credits include two thousand and

841
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: five's The Chronicles of Narnia, various Star Wars productions, The

842
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: Dark Crystal, and Raiders of the Last Dark. We also

843
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 2: have a fairy Una, played by Annabelle Lanyon born nineteen

844
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 2: sixty British actress who has worked a lot in TV.

845
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 2: She's our temperamental tinker Bell.

846
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 3: She doesn't want you don't get to know about what

847
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: her powers are. That's that's for her to decide.

848
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, and then we've talked about this is a

849
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: character that it comes up every now and then on

850
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 2: the show pretty much any time we're talking about hags,

851
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: because oh, we have such a hag in legend. The

852
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: character is Meg Mucklebones and the actor underneath there and

853
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: also I think doing a great job shining through and

854
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: making this a living being. Is Robert Picardo really? Yeah? Yeah.

855
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: We talked about him previously in our episode on Joe

856
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: Dante's Grimlins too, because he's like the he's like one

857
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 2: of the executives there that ends up marrying the lady Grimlin.

858
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, yes, that's right, Yes, what a beautiful marriage. Yes,

859
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 3: but he what is he? Is he like a coach

860
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 3: on The Wonder Years, Jim Teacher or something?

861
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, some sort of role like that. I'm wondering.

862
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: There's been a while since I've seen that he was

863
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 2: on China Beach, but most I think people would know

864
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 2: him from like Star Trek Voyager. He's like the hologram

865
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: guy on there. But his other film credits include eighty

866
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: one's The Howling, eighty seven's Inner Space. Oh, he's Johnny

867
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 2: cab in nineteen ninety's Total Recall, And he also has

868
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 2: a role in the twenty sixteen Coen Brothers film Hail.

869
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: Season The Door Opened. You got in.

870
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: Richard O'Brien what was apparently considered for this role, and

871
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: that's what led them to realizing that Curry would be

872
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 2: perfect for darkness. Wow, all right, some behind the scenes

873
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: people worth noting here. Production design Ashton Gordon, who lived

874
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty through twenty fourteen, worked on such films as

875
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six As a Blow Up, nineteen seventy one's

876
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 2: Get Carter in two thousands Shadow of the Vampire. The

877
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: director of photography was Alex Thompson, who lived nineteen twenty

878
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: nine through two thousand and seven. Regular camera operator for

879
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: Nicholas Rogue in the nineteen sixties before becoming a director

880
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: of photography in nineteen sixty eight. Nominated for an OSCAR

881
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 2: for his work on the nineteen eighty two John Borman

882
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: epic ex Caliber, which I think that shows there's definitely

883
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: some great scenes in this with the lighting and shiny

884
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 2: armor that made me think about Excalibur.

885
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 5: Yeah.

886
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 3: You've mentioned Excalibur before as a movie that is gleaming.

887
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, we have some gleaming armor in this

888
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 2: one as well. Thompson's other cinematography credits include Doctor FIBs

889
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 2: Rises Again, which we've talked about on the show Deathline

890
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 2: from the same year in nineteen seventy two, Michael Mann's

891
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 2: The Keep from eighty three Electric Dreams. In eighty four

892
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: Labyrinth in nineteen eighty six, which is like right next door,

893
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 2: So I guess he's just walking back and forth Leviathan

894
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: in eighty nine, Alien three and ninety two, Demolition Man

895
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 2: in ninety three, and Hamlet in nineteen ninety six. Who

896
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: you called this one out, Joe? What credit stood.

897
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 3: Out to you? It's just because I saw it in

898
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 3: the credits as it was rolling by. So we have

899
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 3: somebody named Vic Armstrong as he was given two titles.

900
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: I don't remember what the first one was, but the

901
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: second one was Unicorn Master.

902
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's not often you have a Unicorn Master

903
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,959
Speaker 2: on set, but yeah, that's Vick Armstrong. He was also

904
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: the stunt coordinator born nineteen forty six, very prolific. Guinness

905
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: Book of World Records has Listen listed him as the

906
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: most prolific like stunt coordinator. But his earliest role is

907
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: apparently an uncre credited Ninja extra part in nineteen sixty

908
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: seven's You Only Live Twice.

909
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 3: Oh recently came up in our Ninja episodes.

910
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 2: Yep, he's still working well. The costumes in this are

911
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: pretty great costume designer and this was Charles Node. He

912
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 2: lived nineteen forty two through twenty twenty three English costume

913
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: designer whose work includes nineteen seventy Nine's Life of Brian,

914
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: the MNTY Python film, Blade Runner fourteen ninety two, The

915
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: Conquest of Paradise, another Ridley Scott film, Oh, and then

916
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: Braveheart from ninety five.

917
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 3: Costumes are great, you could mention a number of them.

918
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 3: Mia Sarah's goth gown is just like the triangular color

919
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 3: hood thing. I don't know what that is, but it's great.

920
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, and then everything that Jack is wearing, from

921
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 2: his the rags that he's wearing initially like the faral rags,

922
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: to the like gleaming elven armor that he dons for

923
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 2: the main adventure portion of the picture. Yeah, But then

924
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 2: again we have to come back to the special effects

925
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: makeup and the special effects makeup lead on this was

926
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: Rob Botein, who've talked about on the show before, the

927
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: Rob Botein crew as well various people working with and

928
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 2: for him on this. He was born nineteen fifty nine,

929
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 2: special makeup practical effects wizard who worked on such films

930
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 2: as Squirm in seventy six, Star Wars in seventy seven,

931
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 2: The Howling The Thing from eighty two, The John Carpenter

932
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: version RoboCop from eighty seven. I think we talked about

933
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: him in that one as well. Total Recall from nineteen

934
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: ninety just capable of such phenomenally nasty, fleshy work. And

935
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, it's hard to imagine this picture with anyone else.

936
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 2: It would be a different picture if anyone else had

937
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 2: done the makeup effects.

938
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 3: Now, wait, so Robert Piccardo played the Johnny Cab. Did

939
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 3: Rob botteen make the Johnny Cab in Total Recall?

940
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. I don't know for certain

941
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: on that, because I mean, we know for certain some

942
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: of the things that Rob Botein was doing on Total Recall,

943
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: you know, but I'm not sure about Johnny Cab. But

944
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: I guess it very likely.

945
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 3: How to split my time between a quatto and a

946
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 3: Johnny Cab?

947
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was definitely on quato duty, all right. Now,

948
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 2: coming to the music, this film Fade famously features those

949
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 2: two separate scores. There's the original Jerry Goldsmith's score and

950
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 2: this is the one that is used in the original

951
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: euro theatrical release of the picture, But then for the

952
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 2: US theatrical release, they brought in Tangerine Dream to do

953
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: a new score for the film. Now, I, of course

954
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 2: is what we've been saying. Grew up on the Tangerine

955
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 2: Dream score, and I think it's absolutely excellent. I listened

956
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: to it a couple of times through while working on

957
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: notes for this episode. It really connected with me when

958
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 2: I was younger, and there are a few things that

959
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: I love more today as an adult than a really

960
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: good Tangerine Dream motion picture score, so this one, in

961
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 2: my opinion, They instantly elevate anything they touch, so it

962
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: was hard for me to set that aside and watch

963
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 2: a full cut of the picture, and even longer cut

964
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: of the picture that has this score by Jerry Goldsmith.

965
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: Jerry Goldsmith lived nineteen twenty nine through two thousand and four.

966
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: Multiple Academy Award winner, responsible for the scores of seventy

967
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: sevens to Omen Alien, nineteen eighties Star Trek, the Motion Picture,

968
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: and many more. Obviously, Jerry Goldsmith is no slouch. This

969
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 2: is his score for Legend is terrific. There are times

970
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: where it is maybe more is certainly more mainstream, more swashbucklery,

971
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: and its scope maybe by some estimates a little hammy

972
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 2: in an intentional way, but it's also just really great

973
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: in moments as well, like the whole section we'll get

974
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 2: into with the Hell Kitchen. Jerry Goldsmith's score here is tremendous.

975
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very traditional score you would expect with

976
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 3: the fantasy movie and it delivers on that front. But yeah,

977
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 3: as I said earlier, Rob, I know your love for

978
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: Tangerine Dream, for electronic music generally, but especially Tangerine Dream,

979
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 3: goes so deep. That is why shocked that you would

980
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 3: have us watch the director's cut. But what's the main

981
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 3: difference in the sonic texture here? What does the Tangerine

982
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 3: Dream score sound like in the US cut?

983
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 5: Oh?

984
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: I mean the Tangerine Dream cut is of course it's electronic,

985
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: it's very synth heavy, but it also has this kind

986
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 2: of ethereal, otherworldly vibe to it, you know that I

987
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: think is typified by that opening bit of music that

988
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 2: plays in the US theatrical cut, where it's like a

989
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 2: strange elven synth flute playing to you, you know, across

990
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,240
Speaker 2: the dimensional barrier. Tangerine Dream is, of course a German

991
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,919
Speaker 2: electronic act founded by the late Edgar Frosi who lived

992
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: nineteen forty four through twenty fifteen. There have been numerous

993
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 2: lineups over time, but he was the only consistent member

994
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 2: of the group at the time of this score. I

995
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 2: believe Christopher Frank and Johannes Schmoling were also in the group.

996
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 2: The band Tangerine Dream is still around. They still record

997
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 2: and tour, but it is a younger lineup, so none

998
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 2: of the original members. And I could be wrong in this,

999
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 2: but I don't think any of the current members were

1000
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: alive when the band was initially formed. But you know,

1001
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: I haven't seen them that. I assume they're still great,

1002
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 2: but it is not the original members, all right. Finally,

1003
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: of note, we also have two different vocal tracks on

1004
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: the US release, We Have Loved by the Sun, a

1005
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: Tangerine Dream track with vocals by John Anderson, former lead

1006
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 2: singer of the band. Yes, this one plays towards the

1007
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 2: end of the very end of the picture. I don't

1008
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 2: hate it, but it's far outclassed. I think by the

1009
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: end credit song, which is Brian Ferries, is Your Love

1010
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 2: strong Enough?

1011
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 3: I was trying to describe this one, and it's like,

1012
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 3: it's such a mood. It is soft, smooth, neon waves

1013
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 3: of emotion.

1014
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great vibe. You got

1015
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 2: fairy and his vocals. Of course, this was the front

1016
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: man of Roxy Music. Ridley Scott co directed one of

1017
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 2: their music videos in eighty two and then on guitars.

1018
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: For this track we have David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.

1019
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 2: So great track, I think, A great way to end

1020
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 2: the picture. I think is one that I overlooked this

1021
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 2: when I was a kid. I was like, I had

1022
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: some sort of cheesy pop song. But now now I'm like,

1023
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 2: this song is amazing and it should be it should

1024
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 2: be heard.

1025
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 3: You ready to go to the plot, Let's do it.

1026
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 3: So note as we get into the plot that I'm

1027
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 3: going to be talking about this from the point of

1028
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 3: view of having watched the director's cut most recently. So

1029
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 3: in this version, the plot begins with a character we

1030
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 3: do not see or only see from behind, in a

1031
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 3: high backed chair like doctor Claw. This is the Lord

1032
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 3: of Darkness, and he is in a shadowy hall within

1033
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 3: a stonework palace, illuminated by fire, with fog flowing across

1034
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 3: the floor, and we hear his voice. It's deep and complex.

1035
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 3: It's almost like it was kind of made of multiple voices,

1036
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 3: or maybe it contains its own echo. And Darkness says,

1037
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 3: I am the Lord of Darkness, I require the solace

1038
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 3: of the shadows and the dark of the night. Sunshine

1039
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 3: is my destroyer. All this shall change tonight, the sun

1040
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 3: sets forever, there shall never be another dawn. So we

1041
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 3: learn that the Lord of Darkness has a plan. He

1042
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 3: wants to forever destroy the sunshine and rule over a

1043
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 3: frozen kingdom of eternal midnight. And he calls forth his

1044
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 3: most loyal, infernal servant, a foul, fetid goblin named Blicks,

1045
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 3: and Darkness says that he senses the presence of an

1046
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 3: enemy in the forest outside, an enemy that, mercifully he

1047
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 3: had almost forgotten the existence of. But now it's sort

1048
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 3: of resurging in his mind. Out it's a power that

1049
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 3: threatens him. What power could that be, well, Darkness says,

1050
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 3: looking upon these frail creatures, one would not think they

1051
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 3: could contain such power. One could rule the universe with it.

1052
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 3: And then he tells Blicks, you must find them for

1053
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 3: me and destroy them. Blicks asks what these creatures look like,

1054
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 3: and Darkness gets very angry, says, you fool, and he

1055
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 3: stabs a piece of silverware into Blix's head. Or it

1056
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 3: might be a dagger or something. So the answer is

1057
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 3: they look like this. They've got a single spike growing

1058
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 3: out of their heads, like an antenna reaching up to heaven. Now,

1059
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 3: Blix is like, okay, single horn on the head, intenna

1060
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 3: reaching to heaven. Got it. I will destroy them. And

1061
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 3: but wait a minute, how am I going to find

1062
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 3: these creatures? And here, Darkness says, you know, there's only

1063
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 3: one lure for such disgusting goodness, one bait that never fails.

1064
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 3: Blick says, what's the bait? And Darkness says, in no sense,

1065
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 3: in no sense. I can't quite capture Tim Curry's delivery there,

1066
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 3: but it is the best.

1067
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: This, this is this is a great scene. Pretty much

1068
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: any interaction between Blicks and Darkness is golden, and I

1069
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: wish we had more of it, because yeah, Darkness is

1070
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 2: of course just absolute, over the top dramatic evil, and

1071
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 2: Blicks is of course also extremely evil, but in a

1072
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: more sniveling way. But also you know, like he like

1073
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 2: clearly Blicks canon will betray Darkness at any moment, but

1074
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 2: he also knows he could be destroyed at any moment

1075
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: by Darkness, so he's yeah, I love this line where

1076
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 2: he's like, what be the baby?

1077
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 5: Please?

1078
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 2: You teach you teach me, you know, and oh it's

1079
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: so good.

1080
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Blix is your classic subordinate villain, who is who

1081
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: is haughty and abusive when he is out on his

1082
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 3: own with his own subordinates, but then very survive when

1083
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 3: in the presence of his of his infernal lord.

1084
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's tremendous. Great vocal performance, great physical performance,

1085
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 2: shining through the makeup.

1086
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 3: It's a bummer that Blicks and the other goblins just

1087
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: disappear at some point in the movie, like somewhere in

1088
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,479
Speaker 3: the second act. They never show up again.

1089
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I read that at some point it

1090
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 2: was they'd written it so that they would come back

1091
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: in for the final showdown, you know, which would make sense, right,

1092
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: because there's especially Blick's is such a great character. This

1093
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: is such a great secondary villain. It's weird that he

1094
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: just like retires or something.

1095
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Blicks goes out hunting the in no sense

1096
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 3: with a couple of other goblins. One of them is

1097
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 3: a bipedal hog named Pox, and the other is a

1098
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 3: goblin whose face we do not see. This goblin is

1099
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 3: named Blunder, and he wears a cage visored bucket helmet

1100
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 3: with horns.

1101
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he kind of looks like he could have wandered

1102
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,439
Speaker 2: out a labyrinth down down the studio road there.

1103
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, So next we're going to meet our main characters,

1104
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 3: Lily and Jack. Lily is a princess, but we learned

1105
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 3: that she does not want to be cooped up in

1106
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 3: the stuffy castle with her servants and her glittering treasures.

1107
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 3: She wants to wander free in the countryside and roam

1108
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 3: through the forest. She hangs out with peasants in their cottages,

1109
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 3: and especially she wants to meet up with Jack, and

1110
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 3: she I think she's talking to well, I don't remember

1111
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 3: if she's talking to one of her peasant friends or

1112
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 3: to Jack when she says this, but she says, this

1113
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 3: place holds more magic for me than any palace in

1114
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 3: the world.

1115
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: So Lily is, of course the embodiment of purity and

1116
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 2: innocence here, but there is something more, and it's kind

1117
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 2: of underscored at this point in the picture, especially I imagine

1118
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 2: more so in the US theatrical cut. But I think

1119
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 2: her privilege is also really key to her character, because

1120
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: you know, who would deny you anything princess? You know,

1121
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 2: you know, she's really sweet and she's innocent, but she

1122
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 2: does feel like she has the right to everything in

1123
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 2: the world, be it walking into a peasant's house and

1124
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: observing their life and feeling to some level like she

1125
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 2: gets to be a part of it, or, as we'll

1126
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 2: see in a bit, that she should be able to

1127
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: walk right up to a unicorn and touch it.

1128
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. The other side of innocence is naivety, and so

1129
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 3: she does not realize the consequences of her actions and

1130
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 3: maybe doesn't even consider them.

1131
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, she doesn't understand that there are things in the

1132
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: world that are not meant for her.

1133
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1134
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 3: Now, the other character is Jack, played by Tom Cruise,

1135
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 3: and Jack, I'm not sure exactly what he is in

1136
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 3: the movie. I see if you agree with this, Rob,

1137
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 3: I think the layout is that he is biologically a

1138
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 3: regular human, so he's not a fairy or an elf

1139
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 3: or any of the other types of hidden folk that

1140
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 3: we meet in the story. But he does not seem

1141
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 3: to be a part of human society and seems to

1142
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 3: live alone in in a kind of ageless and carefree

1143
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 3: communion with the forest. He's almost a hot raticas.

1144
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I think hot ratagas is a good

1145
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: way of putting it. I also was thinking of him

1146
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: as sort of a fairal Peter Pan, you know, so

1147
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 2: he also has more than his share of innocence. He's

1148
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 2: very connected with with nature, very connected to the forces

1149
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 2: of light in the fairy folk, but this is underscored

1150
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: a bit as well. But he's also lusty, granted in

1151
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 2: a way that I think we're to understand is a

1152
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 2: largely in a largely innocent way, you know, part of

1153
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 2: his youthfulness. And it's not like he's manipulating Lily or

1154
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 2: anything like that. But his desire is obvious as well,

1155
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 2: so you know, it's like that's kind of that's we're

1156
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 2: setting that up to be his sin here. And I

1157
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 2: mentioned this because the plot, especially in the in the

1158
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 2: director's cut, is very concerned with the interconnectedness of light

1159
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 2: and darkness, as well as feelings of shame and our

1160
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 2: two protagonists, though it feels rather lily heavy in that regard,

1161
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 2: which I guess, you know, kind of matches up the

1162
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: basic story of Adam and Eden, where it's you know,

1163
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 2: far more shame is placed on the female in the

1164
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: scenario when really it takes two people to touch sacred fruit.

1165
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Jack and Lily they meet together in the

1166
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 3: forest to frolic about, and eventually Jack takes Lily to

1167
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 3: show her something very special. He sort of blindfolds her

1168
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 3: while he's leading her to a secret place, and he

1169
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 3: takes her blindfold off when they arrive. They're at this

1170
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 3: kind of hidden brook somewhere in the forest glen, and

1171
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 3: what they see there is a pair of unicorns that

1172
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 3: emerge from the trees, and then they kind of gallop

1173
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 3: about together like they're playing. And these unicorns, we understand,

1174
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 3: are sacred creatures, almost primordial, and their fates are linked

1175
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 3: to the fate of the world itself. So Jack communicates somehow,

1176
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 3: we've got to treat these creatures with reverence. You know,

1177
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 3: remember she had to be like blindfolded to go to

1178
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 3: their secret ground.

1179
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, these This matches up with some of the

1180
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 2: ideas swirling around the concept of the unicorn. We talked

1181
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 2: about unicorns in an older episode of Stuff to Blow

1182
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 2: Your Mind, where at times like the unicorn is presented

1183
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: as Christ as Jesus Christ himself in the form of

1184
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: a single horned horse.

1185
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 3: Now we watch the unicorns play together and Lily becomes enraptured,

1186
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 3: I guess because of her In no sense, she does

1187
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 3: not take the proper precautions in their presence. She doesn't

1188
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 3: want to hold back and just observe them from a

1189
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 3: distant a distance like Jack recommends. She sort of runs

1190
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 3: out of hiding and touches one of them.

1191
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 2: I think the stallion, right, And it's not so much

1192
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 2: the touch that is going to be disastrous, but it

1193
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: does impact other elements in play.

1194
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 3: Right, because all along Lily has been tracked by the

1195
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 3: goblin trio. They've been they've been following the in no sense,

1196
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 3: and sure enough, the inno since led them straight to

1197
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 3: the unicorns. And I think this is around the scene

1198
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 3: where Blick says that line may be innocent, may be sweet,

1199
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 3: ain't half as nice as rotting meat. So we see

1200
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 3: where Blick's preferences lie, and they are with death and attack.

1201
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:19,439
Speaker 3: So they when the goblins see the unicorns, I think

1202
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 3: Blunder yells out look ugly, one horned mule, and they

1203
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 3: take the opportunity to strike. They shoot one of the

1204
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 3: two unicorns with a poisoned dart, and the unicorns gallop away,

1205
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 3: and I think at first Jack and Lily don't realize

1206
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 3: what has happened. Like Jack is disturbed that Lily was

1207
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 3: so brazen with these holy creatures, but he is quickly

1208
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 3: distracted by love because Lily takes off a piece of jewelry,

1209
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 3: a golden ring inlaid with gems, and she throws it

1210
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 3: into the pool at the base of a waterfall where

1211
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 3: they're hanging out, and she says, I'm gonna marry whoever

1212
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 3: finds this ring, and Jack is just hot diggity he

1213
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 3: dives right in after it. Now a lot happens while

1214
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 3: Jack is diving under the water looking for the ring.

1215
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 3: The goblins catch up to the unicorn, which is faltering

1216
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 3: under the influence of the poison, and blicks his dart

1217
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 3: and they go up to it and they chop off

1218
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 3: its horn, and this instantly causes a worldwide calamity. A

1219
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 3: supernatural winter descends. The peasants are frozen solid in their cottages.

1220
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 3: Ice forms over over the pool where Jack is diving

1221
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 3: for the ring, so like when he comes up for air,

1222
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 3: he has to break through the ice. Lily is caught

1223
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 3: out in the blizzard and she runs in terror as

1224
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 3: the goblins come tramping through the new world of frosty

1225
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 3: horror that they've created. It's a scary time.

1226
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 2: And it must have been scary to read this script

1227
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 2: and think about producing this. You know, this is it's like,

1228
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: we're gonna build a forest, then it's gonna be winter

1229
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: in the forest. We're gonna have a frozen over pond.

1230
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 2: We're gonna have somebody swimming in that and breaking up

1231
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 2: through the ice later, Like I don't know. This is

1232
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,080
Speaker 2: one of the many places in the film where you

1233
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: really have to admire the what they really set out

1234
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: to do here, Like this is a lot.

1235
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 3: Blick says, mortal world turned ice. Here be Goblin paradise.

1236
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 3: So the goblins are having a ball. They run around

1237
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 3: using the unicorn horn as a magic wand they're just

1238
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 3: doing all kinds of mischief and Lily eventually tracks them

1239
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 3: back to their Goblin camp, which I think his position's

1240
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 3: sort of down in a kind of ravine or a

1241
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 3: pit in the earth, and they've got a fire going

1242
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 3: and they're playing around with the horn, and this is

1243
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 3: all good stuff. I love this scene. I think this

1244
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 3: is where Blick says, higher burning fire making music like

1245
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 3: a choir, and they're all sort of talking about what

1246
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 3: they could do with their newfound of power. I think

1247
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: the pig goblin. I love this suggests turning everything into garbage.

1248
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 3: That's a quote. He says, why not turn everything into garbage,

1249
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 3: A big, towering mountain of slot. Wouldn't that be magic.

1250
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 2: He's a simple guy. He knows what he wants.

1251
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 3: Love, numb, numb, garbage.

1252
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 2: Now, my one of my recurring questions on this rewatch

1253
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 2: of Legend, given recent changes and slaying, is this goblin mode?

1254
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 2: Does this constitute goblin mode if you're not familiar. Goblin mode,

1255
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 2: as defined by the Oxford Dictionary in twenty twenty two,

1256
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: is a type of behavior which is unapologetically self indulgent, lazy, slovenly,

1257
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 2: or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms

1258
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 2: or expectations.

1259
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 3: You know, I would say that the goblins in this

1260
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 3: movie are not in goblin mode by default, but in

1261
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 3: this particular scene, they are going goblin mode. Okay, like

1262
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 3: Pox's desire to quote, turn everything into garbage, that's goblin mode.

1263
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 2: That's different, right, yeah.

1264
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1265
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 2: Now, at the same time, Blick's he seems he's having

1266
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 2: a big time here waving this unicorn horn wand around,

1267
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 2: and it seems like he has he has greater designs.

1268
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 2: He's thinking about the power of the wand here and

1269
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 2: what he could do.

1270
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 3: With it I don't know, So we'll see what happens

1271
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,600
Speaker 3: and when Darkness shows up. So Darkness arrives at the

1272
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:10,679
Speaker 3: goblin camp. He's covered in a cloak, so we still

1273
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 3: don't see his face or his true form. And this

1274
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 3: is where one of the three goblins I know it's Blunder,

1275
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 3: the one with the helmet on, tries to take the

1276
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 3: horn and use it to usurp the power of the

1277
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 3: Lord of Darkness, but he's he's not strong enough. Tim

1278
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 3: Curry just like sucks it out of Blunder's hand magically

1279
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 3: and then reanimates a nearby mummy to grab up Blunder

1280
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 3: and cast him into a crevice in the earth, though

1281
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 3: we'll meet him again later.

1282
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great thing because basically, yeah, Blicks

1283
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,759
Speaker 2: has been playing around with the wand there's really getting

1284
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 2: into it and has all these flourishes to his movements.

1285
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 2: You know clearly he's really digging this power trip. And

1286
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 2: you get the impression that Darkness has shown up really

1287
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 2: to be like, Okay, enough of this before it gets

1288
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 2: out of hand. I'm here for what's mine. So but

1289
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 2: Blix is smart enough to just drop it to the

1290
01:09:58,960 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 2: ground immediately.

1291
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1292
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Blunder is stupid, and Blunder is like, oh,

1293
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 2: there's the wand it's mine now, this is my time

1294
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 2: to shine, and as sind at the top, and he's

1295
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 2: just instantly destroyed. Yeah, or seemingly at the time.

1296
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 3: Blunder has some good lines though, before he gets cast

1297
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 3: into the ravine when they're like they're talking about uh

1298
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 3: Lily and they're like, oh, she's so beautiful, and then

1299
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:27,799
Speaker 3: Blunder's like, I know, I could eat her brains, Like jam, they.

1300
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 2: Just don't have the same values as mortals.

1301
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 5: Though.

1302
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, the mission is not fully accomplished because Darkness is like,

1303
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 3: you fools, look, Dawn is about to break. That means

1304
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 3: one of the unicorns still lives. You have to get

1305
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 3: both of them, So go find the other unicorn and

1306
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 3: bring it to me.

1307
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because the remaining unicorn is the Mayor And

1308
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 2: they're like what, it's just the female and Darkness is like, yeah,

1309
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,600
Speaker 2: that one has the power of creation, you dummies, Like

1310
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 2: that's the most important unicorn.

1311
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you got to bring me unicorn too. Meanwhile,

1312
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 3: Jack wakes up being frozen in the Blizzard of wickedness,

1313
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 3: and when he does, when he wakes up, he is

1314
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 3: surrounded by a coterie of hidden folk. So there is

1315
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 3: a sort of panlike magical boy called Honeythorn Gump. I

1316
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 3: think he's supposed to be an elf, do they say?

1317
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? I believe so.

1318
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,799
Speaker 3: I don't know technically what all of the fantasy classes

1319
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,759
Speaker 3: of these creatures of the forest are. They're all various

1320
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 3: hidden folk of different kinds. A couple of them are

1321
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 3: Brown Tom and Screwball. They will be companions along the

1322
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 3: rest of the journey. In the movie, there is a

1323
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 3: fairy creature named Una, who I think is like a

1324
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 3: will of the Wisp. Honey Thorn Gump is sort of

1325
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 3: the leader of them. He's got the most lore information

1326
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 3: in his head and seems to like kind of know

1327
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 3: what's going on. And Gump is interesting. He has these

1328
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 3: great fantasy time units that he always talks in. All

1329
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 3: the expressions of time are things like three flicks of

1330
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 3: a badger's or two hundred beats of a sparrow's heart.

1331
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you get the impression where if you

1332
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 2: were in tune with nature as much as an elf

1333
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 2: is or any of these magical fairy folk here you

1334
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 2: would know exactly what that means. You would innately know

1335
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 2: what that means. But to us mortals, we're a little

1336
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:19,560
Speaker 2: lost on the particulars.

1337
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are some initial negotiations. When they first meet

1338
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise, he has to answer a riddle or die.

1339
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 3: I think, is that right?

1340
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 2: I'm always this scene kind of lost me a little bit.

1341
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 2: I'm not sure exactly what is happening in the scene.

1342
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 2: But then it's kind of like, Okay, I guess he

1343
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:38,720
Speaker 2: passed the test, whatever it was.

1344
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 3: Also, I don't understand the logic of the riddle. The

1345
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 3: answer is flowers, bluebell flowers, but I don't understand how

1346
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 3: it corresponds to the riddle itself. Anyway, they eventually decide

1347
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 3: that Tom Cruise is the Champion foretold who must defend

1348
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 3: the world from the Lord of Darkness, and so there's

1349
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 3: a scene of him being sent to raid a treasure

1350
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,600
Speaker 3: trove and a hit barrow to get magical armor and weapons.

1351
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 3: Around here is where I first started to notice that

1352
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise is not getting to stand up in this movie.

1353
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 3: He's always squatting or creeping on the ground.

1354
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now he has like a golden chain mail

1355
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 2: skirt to wear the whole time. Yeah, and a really

1356
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 2: cool shield and sword too, So he's decked out. He's

1357
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 2: gotten his plus one plus two gear from the Dungeon

1358
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 2: Master and is ready to hop into the main adventure. Yeah.

1359
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, there's a scene where Lily makes her way to

1360
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 3: sort of the camp where Jack originally was, but they

1361
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 3: don't meet up. Lily is there with the Unicorn Mayor

1362
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 3: and they get captured by the goblins and taken back

1363
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 3: to Tim Curry. And there's a funny moment here where

1364
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 3: Brown Tom, who was with one of the good guys,

1365
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 3: he gets shot in the head with an arrow and

1366
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 3: you think he's dead, and he thinks he's dead. When

1367
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 3: his companions show back up, he says, I was shot

1368
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,639
Speaker 3: through the brain pan. But then he takes his hat

1369
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 3: off and he literally had a pan in his hat

1370
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 3: and it was the air went through it.

1371
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 2: It's a great moment. When this movie wants to be

1372
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 2: silly and funny, it succeeds.

1373
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 3: So now that Tim Curry has Lily and the last

1374
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 3: living Unicorn, that they got to turn this into a

1375
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 3: rescue operation, right, So Jack and his magical friends make

1376
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:29,679
Speaker 3: the journey to the Layer of Darkness to confront Darkness

1377
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 3: and his minions, which and I thought this was interesting.

1378
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 3: It's shown from the outside and it is not your

1379
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:41,679
Speaker 3: typical stone castle, but seems to be built inside a giant,

1380
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 3: ancient tree. The Honeythorn Gump describes it by saying, the

1381
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 3: Great Tree. When evil anarchy ruled the land, the wicked

1382
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 3: came here to sacrifice. That's an interesting, almost kind of

1383
01:14:55,600 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 3: biblical foundation story that, like the Cursed Play, is a

1384
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:04,439
Speaker 3: place that you associate with the sacrifices made by an

1385
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 3: ancient enemy.

1386
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 2: It's interesting too in that like what we have here

1387
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 2: in form and it looks amazing in the picture we

1388
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 2: see like the spots of carry and birds circling around it.

1389
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 2: But in many respects you could compare this to like

1390
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 2: a world tree from various mythologies, you know, connecting the

1391
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,760
Speaker 2: realm of Earth to the realm of the cosmos. But

1392
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 2: it's corrupted and it's dark. But on the other level,

1393
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 2: numerous times we have, especially our evil characters, speak to

1394
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 2: a universe here in which darkness was the purity of

1395
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 2: existence that was then invaded by light. And therefore it

1396
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 2: maybe feels kind of fitting that the world tree here

1397
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 2: is something of the darkness because the darkness is the

1398
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:48,759
Speaker 2: original structure of the universe.

1399
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is an interesting mythology. And again we get

1400
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 3: these statements about the necessary interconnectedness of the elements that

1401
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 3: come back in the very end as well. On the

1402
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,640
Speaker 3: way to the castle, they've got to do battle with

1403
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 3: a swamp hag.

1404
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 2: Right.

1405
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 3: We brought a meg Mucklebones early on, played by Robert

1406
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 3: Piccardo in some amazing makeup and prosthetics or I don't

1407
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 3: know if there's puppetry involved in as well.

1408
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 2: It feels like it. There's feels like there's some sort

1409
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 2: of like a device that's moving him around at the base.

1410
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's like a big old Jenny Green teeth

1411
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 3: pops up out of the water and is going to

1412
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 3: eat Tom Cruise because she's like, you look delicious, and

1413
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 3: he starts trying to get out of it by flattering

1414
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 3: her beauty and she ends up saying, ooh, what a

1415
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 3: fine meal you'll make be the rest of you as

1416
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:38,839
Speaker 3: sweet as your tongue.

1417
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 2: Oh and this scene, this scene is just so perfect,

1418
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,599
Speaker 2: but just and I'm just to touch on like some

1419
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 2: of the little things that make it great. The scene

1420
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 2: where he has the resplendent golden shield up and Meg

1421
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: is like close to it, half seeing a reflection in it,

1422
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 2: and her nails are tapping against it, and there's all

1423
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 2: so there's the gleam of the shield and then also

1424
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of her sliminess on it. So

1425
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 2: it's just like visually and just sonically too, that tapping.

1426
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,679
Speaker 2: It's just got complete overload. It's just a tremendous scene,

1427
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 2: even in this small detail.

1428
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1429
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So eventually Meg is decapitated and our heroes, you know,

1430
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 3: they go on their way into the Great Tree of Wickedness,

1431
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 3: where they quickly fall into a pit and end up

1432
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 3: trapped inside prison cells. Now they will get out of

1433
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:31,640
Speaker 3: these eventually released by the Fairy Una after she reveals

1434
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 3: that she had abilities that even Gump did not know

1435
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:38,959
Speaker 3: of before. She's interesting because she's one of the heroes,

1436
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 3: but she's capricious, you know, she doesn't want to be

1437
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 3: pinned down. She's like, I'll do what I want, and

1438
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 3: you know, just so happens that that turns out to

1439
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 3: be helping them sometimes. But she also wants Tom Cruise.

1440
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 3: By the way, yes, but while in this prison they

1441
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:57,919
Speaker 3: meet the goblin Blunder who reveals he is not actually

1442
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 3: a goblin. He takes his helmet off and learned that

1443
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 3: he is one of the hidden folk of the forest

1444
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 3: and known to Screwball and Brown Tom. But I guess

1445
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:08,600
Speaker 3: he sort of went astray and now he's back on

1446
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 3: the team. But unfortunately, right after they meet him and

1447
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 3: realize who he is, he gets snatched up by their

1448
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 3: jailers and the dungeon and taken away to be baked

1449
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 3: into a pie. Because this dungeon is right next to

1450
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 3: the kitchens of Hell. This set we need to talk

1451
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 3: about the hell kitchens. Here, there's this doctor Salvador prep

1452
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 3: table in this blood Bucket kitchen, where like right in

1453
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 3: the middle of the floor there are random fires burning,

1454
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 3: so it's like a barbecue preparation area attended by like

1455
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 3: bondage axe murderers.

1456
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like big ogres and execution hoods, just very

1457
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 2: physically intimidating. The fires are just raging, like just out

1458
01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 2: of control levels of flame. It's like a delirious vision

1459
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 2: of hell, like a baroque mashup of Texas chainsaw massacre

1460
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 2: and a medieval wood cut. And they're also throughout like

1461
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 2: the last half or third of the picture. There are

1462
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,440
Speaker 2: also just lots of creepy statues, Like there's a pazuzu

1463
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 2: statue from that pops up twice, I think, once in

1464
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 2: the swamp and then once in the depths of the

1465
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 2: underworld here. Sometimes those statues are actually alive and they move.

1466
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 2: So there's just a very rich, disturbing visual world down

1467
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 2: here in the hell. Kitchens are just yeah, absolutely terrifying.

1468
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 3: Now, there's also an extended series of scenes, a kind

1469
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 3: of drama here where after Lily is brought to the

1470
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 3: palace as a captive, Darkness decides that he wants to

1471
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 3: seduce her, and he's sort of instructed by this other voice,

1472
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 3: this kind of statue or other god speaking to him.

1473
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 3: I think it says, make her one of us, and

1474
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 3: so that's his goal. He wants to take the innocence

1475
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 3: of the princess and to make her evil as well,

1476
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:04,720
Speaker 3: to bring her into the darkness and make her a creature.

1477
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 5: Of the night.

1478
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting that you look at this in Labyrinth,

1479
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 2: two films being made at the same time, next door

1480
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 2: to each other. They both have very similar elements in

1481
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 2: that you have a dark lord who is pleading with

1482
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 2: like trying to seduce and ultimately just offering to be

1483
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 2: subservient to a woman. He is in love with a

1484
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 2: mortal woman. And they I'm to understand that with Labyrinth too,

1485
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 2: they were they were aware of what was going on

1486
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,719
Speaker 2: in Legend and made deliberate choices with Jareth the Goblin

1487
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:39,960
Speaker 2: Goblin King to portray him in a less like overtly

1488
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 2: satanic manner and like finding a different sort of form

1489
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 2: for him. But it is interesting that, yeah, out of

1490
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:49,799
Speaker 2: the same production timeline, you're getting like these two different

1491
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 2: I guess kind of like equally iconic versions of somebody's

1492
01:20:55,200 --> 01:21:00,679
Speaker 2: potential supernatural boyfriend, you know, from beyond the realm of mortals,

1493
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 2: you know. So it's like, ultimately, like who do you

1494
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 2: see yourself with on the dating show? Is it Darkness

1495
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,960
Speaker 2: the Prince of Evil, or is it Jarret the Goblin King.

1496
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 2: I don't know, your preference may vary.

1497
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 3: But now Lily here goes through a transformation. At some

1498
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:19,599
Speaker 3: point she gets a kind of spell cast on her

1499
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:24,120
Speaker 3: while in the banquet hall of Darkness here, and she

1500
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 3: becomes Goth Lily. She like transforms to have this bizarre

1501
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 3: gown with like there's sort of this this we were

1502
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 3: talking about this big extending triangular hood or collar thing,

1503
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:41,559
Speaker 3: and then like a big V cut in the middle

1504
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:44,719
Speaker 3: of it, and her hair gets very stringy and dark,

1505
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 3: and she's got this, I don't know what you call it,

1506
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 3: the kind of a twiggy, twiggy black crown on her head.

1507
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 3: It's a it's a very strange and interesting look and

1508
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:59,719
Speaker 3: props again to the costume designers there. But so there's

1509
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 3: like it's it's to symbolize that she has in a

1510
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 3: way had a spell cast over her, but she that

1511
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:09,000
Speaker 3: doesn't mean she's been like hypnotized fully by the Lord

1512
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 3: of Darkness, because she's still not into him at this point.

1513
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:14,879
Speaker 3: He's he's trying to make all these you know, seducing

1514
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 3: her to evil kind of moves, and she she's still

1515
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 3: screaming like no, I will do nothing for your pleasure.

1516
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:26,080
Speaker 3: But in the end she does appear to make a turn.

1517
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 3: She says, Okay, I will stay with you here if

1518
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 3: you will grant me one thing. Let me be the

1519
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 3: one who cuts the throat of the last unicorn instead

1520
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 3: of you and Tim Curry. You could just see him.

1521
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 3: He's like, yes, yes.

1522
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,320
Speaker 2: He's like this is exactly the sort of thing I'm

1523
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 2: into and I'm so glad you are into it as well.

1524
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1525
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 2: But oh but before we get to that point, I

1526
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 2: have to talk about her brow though. Oh because yeah, yeah,

1527
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 2: because yeah, the costume of Goth Lily is amazing, you know,

1528
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 2: the makeup is amazing. But they make a seemingly very

1529
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:04,439
Speaker 2: deliberate choice to narrow and nearly unify her brow. So

1530
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 2: she has this very sweek monobrow unibrow going on here

1531
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 2: in a way that is of course also very like

1532
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 2: beautiful and hot. Don't get me wrong, it is enough.

1533
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 2: It is like the kind of like stylized younibrow that

1534
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,920
Speaker 2: can make you realize, you know, it is like maybe

1535
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 2: a silly cultural thing that some of us don't think

1536
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:26,559
Speaker 2: brows should grow together, because here's proof that it can

1537
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,799
Speaker 2: look really cool. But like, first they made this decision,

1538
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:33,960
Speaker 2: and I wonder like how they talked about it behind

1539
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 2: the scenes, where they're like, I really think we need

1540
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 2: to give her a unibrow here, and like maybe people

1541
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 2: were doubtful and then they saw the results and they're like, no,

1542
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 2: you got it. This is exactly what God Lily needs.

1543
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:46,600
Speaker 3: So the audience at this point may be left to

1544
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 3: wonder like, okay, has she fully been captured by the darkness?

1545
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,000
Speaker 3: Does she want to kill the unicorn for real? But no, No,

1546
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 3: Lily has a plan, and Jack's about to get a

1547
01:23:57,040 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 3: plan too. Like the Jack and his friends. They've snuck

1548
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:03,120
Speaker 3: into the palace and they're like peeking through a through

1549
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 3: a window and watching what's going on. And so Jack

1550
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 3: comes up with an idea that involves bringing light into

1551
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 3: the darkness. So they need to go gather a bunch

1552
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 3: of big shiny plates from the hell Kitchens, which have

1553
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 3: shiny plates for some reason, that they're going to use

1554
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:21,879
Speaker 3: to create a series of reflector beams to bring sunlight

1555
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,719
Speaker 3: from up above down into the darkness where it will

1556
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 3: destroy Tim Curry.

1557
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:27,639
Speaker 2: Now on the way.

1558
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:30,599
Speaker 3: At one point they get drawn into a fight with

1559
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 3: the Ogres and the hell Kitchen. I think they they

1560
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:38,559
Speaker 3: beat them by like dumping out a big pot of broth.

1561
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 3: Unclear exactly how this fight is resolved.

1562
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,879
Speaker 2: Here now, Yeah, I'm not sure either. But while it's happening,

1563
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:46,599
Speaker 2: the fight is very cool. There's a lot of running

1564
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 2: around and jumping and dodging, and of course the set

1565
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:50,600
Speaker 2: is amazing.

1566
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 3: And skipping over a few more things that go on

1567
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 3: in the Palace. Here it all leads up to this

1568
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:58,599
Speaker 3: final confrontation where Lily and Darkness are down there with

1569
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 3: the last unicorn, and Lily is about to exercise her

1570
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 3: privilege to be the one to put an end to

1571
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 3: all goodness and bring on the forever night, and Jack

1572
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 3: and Honeythorn Gump are They've got the plans set up

1573
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:14,799
Speaker 3: to bring the light in, and they're watching from above

1574
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 3: with bows drawn as this is about to happen, and

1575
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 3: Gump is saying, oh, no, she's going to kill the unicorn.

1576
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 3: You've got a stopper, Jack, But Jack says, no, I

1577
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:25,400
Speaker 3: trust you, Lily, And so this is a sort of

1578
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 3: repeated idea that he puts his trust in her, and

1579
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 3: it was well placed because she in fact does not

1580
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 3: go through with hurting the unicorn. She instead cuts it

1581
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:37,800
Speaker 3: free of its bindings, and then it kicks off a

1582
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 3: final action scene where Jack rushes in to fight the

1583
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:44,639
Speaker 3: Lord of Darkness and put an end to this once

1584
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 3: and for all. The fight scene here, I'm of mixed

1585
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 3: opinions about it. It has some cool elements, something about

1586
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 3: it feels kind of thrown together in a way, but

1587
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 3: individual moments of it I like.

1588
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the thing I was most impressed by

1589
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 2: is that Darkness still feels like a cohesive entity here,

1590
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 2: despite the fact that we're suddenly seeing him move around

1591
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 2: a lot more like he's swinging a giant sword. He's

1592
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 2: like shooting fire from his fingertips and in one sequence

1593
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:18,120
Speaker 2: like runs like charges like a bull at jack and

1594
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 2: sort of like pins into the wall and snarls at him.

1595
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 2: And I feel like like, if the effects were not

1596
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:29,520
Speaker 2: just so on point here, either this wouldn't feel believable

1597
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 2: or we wouldn't see an attempt like this at all.

1598
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And he has some great dialogue

1599
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 3: in the scene too, like while they're fighting at one point,

1600
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:41,919
Speaker 3: Darkness as every wolf suffers fleas 'tis easy enough to scratch.

1601
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 3: Oh and then at the final defeat, okay, so you know,

1602
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 3: they blow the doors open with the sunlight brought in

1603
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 3: through the maze of mirrors, and it shines a big

1604
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 3: ray of sunlight onto Darkness, which is a destructive It

1605
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 3: like unleashes this destructive gale upon him that blows him

1606
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 3: out through this big sort of aperture we've seen in

1607
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 3: the wall. There's like this gap in the wall that

1608
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 3: seems to lead out into space and the night we

1609
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 3: just see black and stars beyond it. And as he's

1610
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 3: being blown out, Darkness says, you think you have won?

1611
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 3: What is light without dark? What are you without me?

1612
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 3: I am a part of you all. You can never

1613
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:23,679
Speaker 3: defeat me. We are brothers eternal. But he is seemingly defeated.

1614
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 3: He's blown out into space. And I just want to

1615
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 3: point out for comparison, So the villain of this movie

1616
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 3: is destroyed by being sucked out into space? How is

1617
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 3: the Starbeast defeated at the end of Alien, also by

1618
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 3: Ridley Scott from several years earlier, blown out the airlock.

1619
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:43,880
Speaker 3: Both of these movies end with the villain being the

1620
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:46,679
Speaker 3: villain nor the monster being blown out into space.

1621
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:51,840
Speaker 2: That's also how Gladiator defeated Emperor Commitists in that movie,

1622
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 2: right just out through the airlock. You know.

1623
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 3: Strangely, I would say, Thelma and Louise does have an

1624
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 3: almost kind of out into space ending.

1625
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 2: That's true, Yeah, like into the void. I guess you

1626
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:03,679
Speaker 2: could say. Yeah.

1627
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:06,720
Speaker 3: Now, after the evil is defeated, the unicorn is all right.

1628
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:10,120
Speaker 3: Somehow we see the other unicorn revived, so now they're

1629
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 3: both okay. The Supernatural Winter ends, Lily is freed and

1630
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 3: everything can go back to normal. I think depending on

1631
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 3: which cut of the film you are seeing, there'll be

1632
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 3: a slightly different ending. There might be one where it

1633
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 3: seems like they're going to get married or something. I

1634
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,759
Speaker 3: think there is one ending where we hear Darkness laughing

1635
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 3: after the happy ending, suggesting, oh, he's actually coming back.

1636
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:38,439
Speaker 3: The ending of the director's cuts has them coming to

1637
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:43,919
Speaker 3: a kind of bittersweet agreement where Jack and Lily conclude

1638
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 3: that Jack can't really be part of Lily's world, that

1639
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 3: he is going to have to stay in the forest.

1640
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:52,639
Speaker 3: But she says, can I come visit you every day?

1641
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:54,479
Speaker 3: And he says yes, all right.

1642
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 2: I guess this getting into the the basic thesis statement

1643
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,679
Speaker 2: that our heroes are going to have to embrace darkness

1644
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 2: and light, that they're going to have to find some

1645
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,719
Speaker 2: balance of things, and that maybe, like the ideal happy

1646
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 2: ending isn't really in the cards. But I don't know.

1647
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 2: But then I don't know. Especially in the US theatrical cut,

1648
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 2: it does feel a lot more good conquers everything, you know,

1649
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 2: good over evil, And then we can't argue with those songs.

1650
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 2: We're hit first with that tangerine dream vocal track, and

1651
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:24,880
Speaker 2: then we get your love? Is your love strong enough?

1652
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:27,800
Speaker 2: And the answer is yes, clearly, the answer is yes

1653
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 2: a million times. Yes, love is absolutely strong enough?

1654
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:35,720
Speaker 3: Is your love strong enough to turn the world into garbage?

1655
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:37,759
Speaker 3: One great big mountain of slop?

1656
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:43,759
Speaker 2: All right, Well there you have it legend from Ridley Scott.

1657
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:46,320
Speaker 2: I'd be very interested to hear what everyone out there

1658
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:48,040
Speaker 2: has to say about this film, like it, did you

1659
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 2: see it? What version did you initially see? And what

1660
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:54,080
Speaker 2: were your impressions? And has it grown on you over

1661
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 2: the years, like again, like it's a film that had

1662
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 2: such an impact on me, like visually that it's always

1663
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 2: stuck with me. But it's also a film that I

1664
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:04,560
Speaker 2: always come back to and realize that Hell, you know,

1665
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,600
Speaker 2: it's a little rough around the edges in the in

1666
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 2: the end, but you know it's it's definitely developed its

1667
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 2: own cult following and has become iconic in its own right.

1668
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:16,360
Speaker 3: I can't deny there's something about it that just doesn't

1669
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 3: quite come together. And yet I'm not going to get

1670
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:20,759
Speaker 3: rid of my copy. I know I'm gonna be watching

1671
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 3: it again.

1672
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:23,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great one to put on. I've

1673
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:25,720
Speaker 2: played this one before, just in the background with other

1674
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 2: music on top of it, and it's always a delight.

1675
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1676
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we're going to go and close out

1677
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 2: this episode of Weird House Cinema, but we'll be back

1678
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 2: with the future installments, which air on Fridays in the

1679
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:38,360
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed. If you want

1680
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 2: to see a full list of the movies we've covered

1681
01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 2: over the years for Weird House Cinema, go to letterbox

1682
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 2: dot com. It's l E T T E R B

1683
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 2: O x D dot com. You'll find us on there.

1684
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:48,479
Speaker 2: Our user name is weird House and there's a list

1685
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 2: of all the films we've covered and sometimes a peek

1686
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 2: ahead at what's coming up next. Also, if you're on Instagram,

1687
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 2: go to st b ym podcast. That's the Stuff to

1688
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 2: Blow Your Mind podcast channel handle and you'll get updates

1689
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:00,519
Speaker 2: as well.

1690
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:04,759
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1691
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:06,720
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1692
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1693
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1694
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:13,920
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuffed blow your

1695
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:21,360
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

1696
01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1697
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1698
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.