WEBVTT - A Survivor’s Account (with Shanti Tangri)

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, a quick note about this week's episode. For extra clarity,

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<v Speaker 1>we have included a transcription of shanty's interview in the

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<v Speaker 1>show notes. Warning. The following episode contains stories of extreme violence. Yes, big,

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<v Speaker 1>big team. Every day. It was time to writing. Around

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<v Speaker 1>one in July I was granted a reprieve from the

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<v Speaker 1>Texas heat. I traveled to the bay area to interview

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<v Speaker 1>a man who experienced partition when he was nineteen years old.

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<v Speaker 1>Up until this point I had only communicated via email

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<v Speaker 1>with his song and the only thing I knew, besides

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<v Speaker 1>him being a survivor, is that he used to be

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<v Speaker 1>a professor in the Economics Department at Rutgers University. I

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<v Speaker 1>took the Coltrain from San Francisco to mountain view. My

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<v Speaker 1>mind was racing during the entire journey. I have never

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<v Speaker 1>spoken to my relatives who survived face to face about

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<v Speaker 1>their experiences, and here I was about to meet a

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<v Speaker 1>stranger and have him divulge painful parts of his past.

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<v Speaker 1>I met Shanty Tongrey and his son Neil at the

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<v Speaker 1>mountain view public library on a Friday afternoon. I got

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<v Speaker 1>there early to set up our meeting room and I

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<v Speaker 1>was constantly rearranging everything as if I was staging a

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<v Speaker 1>house about to be put on the market. Once the

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<v Speaker 1>equipment was set up to my liking, I sat down,

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<v Speaker 1>took a breath and looked over my questions, and a

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<v Speaker 1>minute later there was a knock at the door. They

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<v Speaker 1>greeted me with a joyful and kind energy. We introduced ourselves,

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<v Speaker 1>I explained how the process of recording would work and

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<v Speaker 1>I went over some topics of discussion. After that, I

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<v Speaker 1>pressed record and for two and a half hours I

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<v Speaker 1>just listened to shanty, hanging onto every word of his story. YEA,

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<v Speaker 1>each episode of this show has been difficult to put together,

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<v Speaker 1>but my time with shanty posts a lot more discourse

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<v Speaker 1>on how I should present his story to you all.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode could be hours long. I would have loved

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<v Speaker 1>to include everything shanty told me. Each sentence, each memory,

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<v Speaker 1>had so much significance. I hardly spoke during our conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>It didn't feel right to interrupt his stream of consciousness

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<v Speaker 1>as he recounted a number of memories for me, each

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<v Speaker 1>one more nerve racking than the last. From I heart radio.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Nahasie's and this is partition a podcast that will

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<v Speaker 1>take a closer look into this often forgotten part of history.

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<v Speaker 1>We know that many attacks and crimes took place before

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<v Speaker 1>Independence Day. Shanty described some of the moments he witnessed

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<v Speaker 1>the weeks leading up to partition. Partition offessially took place

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<v Speaker 1>in make July. It was in the air. Matter had

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<v Speaker 1>been politically decided by all of the parties. They were

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<v Speaker 1>going to accept the compromising we sat me at the

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<v Speaker 1>radio for an hours. I heard there were a fire

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<v Speaker 1>in the inner Lahore and it wasn't being put out.

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<v Speaker 1>He told me that he climbed on the rooftop of

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<v Speaker 1>their home and realized the fire was only a few

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<v Speaker 1>miles away. We could tell from the direction how it

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<v Speaker 1>come from, that this was the old city and most

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<v Speaker 1>likely it said either, we didn't know for in the beginning,

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<v Speaker 1>with the hint them what must number, or bolt. Sometime

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<v Speaker 1>during that night the words started coming that it reached

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<v Speaker 1>the hint of version of the town. Picture right. We

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<v Speaker 1>were all up and beginning to what to do. For

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<v Speaker 1>a while everybody was totally confused. Think maybe next morning.

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<v Speaker 1>Think told calmed down and stiff. I kept listening to

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<v Speaker 1>the idea now, how two more police heavy now and

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<v Speaker 1>then coming through with all of the news shanty had

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge about. He began to think about what would happen

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<v Speaker 1>when the formation of a new country was quickly approaching.

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<v Speaker 1>So I would listen to the radio or read the

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<v Speaker 1>newspaper and there were articles about getting fired and down,

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<v Speaker 1>down Lahr and on. We started wadding about what's going

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<v Speaker 1>to happen when Pakistan our lives. A decision about the

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<v Speaker 1>family's future had to be made. Well, he had all

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<v Speaker 1>arguments and we had generatives. Had cousin who had gotten

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<v Speaker 1>matted recently and he had come as wife, new wife

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<v Speaker 1>and staying with us for a while. They were on

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<v Speaker 1>the way to cash media and that's check to him,

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<v Speaker 1>and so was my order brother, who was at Paris

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<v Speaker 1>in the university and Engineering School and probably India's prestor

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<v Speaker 1>that time. And we had a family session, all of

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<v Speaker 1>us as through what to do, because I think we're

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<v Speaker 1>getting worse. For some reason I found myself in agreement,

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<v Speaker 1>which some of them not an agreement retus, and one

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<v Speaker 1>of them happened to be my oldest brother's father in law,

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<v Speaker 1>who was very part of me. For some reason. I

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<v Speaker 1>had stayed with him and karage once and interrupted me

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<v Speaker 1>to stay with him for two months. So he kept

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<v Speaker 1>coming back and saying, listen to this young man. Listening.

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<v Speaker 1>He were probably more for two ways that me and

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<v Speaker 1>my father going along with he wanted to get back

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<v Speaker 1>to Karachi and he was saying no, you shouldn't do

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<v Speaker 1>what he's saying. What I was saying is send this

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<v Speaker 1>young man, my younger brother. He's gone up strong, bigger

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<v Speaker 1>than me. It looks like if the police it's coming

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<v Speaker 1>into any trouble, he will be picked up and card

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<v Speaker 1>knows what they would do to him. Get him out

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<v Speaker 1>of town, send him to Eastman job, we had relatives

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<v Speaker 1>and that would be a safe area because every largely

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<v Speaker 1>into secretion area. My father was a reluctantly want to

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<v Speaker 1>get back to work. He thought he'd went through so

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<v Speaker 1>many crisis before. But he agreed to that. And Christian

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<v Speaker 1>Party and his wife, who was sick. They said we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to crash me and we're going to take his

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<v Speaker 1>two brothers. There's witness and shut her down. Christian can

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<v Speaker 1>go to Nis in the university. If we don't, he

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<v Speaker 1>can go there now, but don't stay in town. And

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<v Speaker 1>finally that so it worked. As time began to pass,

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<v Speaker 1>Shanty's family went their respective ways. It was my turn

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<v Speaker 1>and I had an older brother who was in nontown.

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<v Speaker 1>He was living in a town callisle for about D

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty miles west. He was married. His wife was

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<v Speaker 1>with him. I had visited them two weeks before. She

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<v Speaker 1>was not too well and she had a child, which

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<v Speaker 1>is one reason my mother had sent me there to

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<v Speaker 1>help out. So I had to get her out so

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<v Speaker 1>that range had her out. Also sent her to some

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<v Speaker 1>relatives on her mother's side. So it was me and

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<v Speaker 1>Christian Parta and his wife's new wife and my mother. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the vicar time to go mother like, and then we

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<v Speaker 1>had it serveant like many families who had been with

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<v Speaker 1>a sint Chad and he didn't have any family anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Team boy. They sort of pressured me to go with

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<v Speaker 1>the Christian Parta and wife and that we should all

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<v Speaker 1>get together at the same time be easier, and we did.

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<v Speaker 1>That was someone harrowing because we gotten out in time,

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<v Speaker 1>but we left our mother and father behind. Father he

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<v Speaker 1>was still and Denny, he was saying you get out down.

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<v Speaker 1>He mentions one particular memory that is imprinted in his brain.

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<v Speaker 1>For the second of July, he and I was sitting

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<v Speaker 1>in the outer room of our house and I heard

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<v Speaker 1>kind of buzzing sound. I know it was after the

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<v Speaker 1>fires that were watched from a roof and I couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>stand the noise after a while and nowise get out

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<v Speaker 1>and outer. So I opened the window, get shutters and

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<v Speaker 1>inside there were screens and glass paints, so there was

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<v Speaker 1>some filtering out. It's the kind of noise I never

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<v Speaker 1>heard before, like you have a swarm of bees buzzing around.

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<v Speaker 1>This is tired and the love the day. It was hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Day may have been a hundred or hundred five degree.

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<v Speaker 1>I opened the window my hair rounds and I saw

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<v Speaker 1>a crowd milling you now, maybe thirty, forty or fifty people.

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't tell, except that some of them were wearing turbans.

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<v Speaker 1>So I figured, and most likely even to some Muslims,

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<v Speaker 1>road carboants something. But it seems like, of coursely, as

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<v Speaker 1>crowder six, we had been speculating that there will be

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<v Speaker 1>troubled because of the fires in downtown and some people

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<v Speaker 1>are going to do it rightful and do something terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what it would happen. So what I see

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<v Speaker 1>in the few minutes, some people not only were just

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<v Speaker 1>milling around, but they had all kinds of rude weapons.

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<v Speaker 1>Some had souls, some had actors, somehow thinks made of

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<v Speaker 1>would anything they can use strike and they were meaning

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<v Speaker 1>around and for a couple of minutes I couldn't tell

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<v Speaker 1>what was happening. In spred they were also a link

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<v Speaker 1>around and shouting. Then before my eyes or I could

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<v Speaker 1>really get a vation hard. I didn't have glasses in

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<v Speaker 1>those days. I may have kneeled them by. I see

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<v Speaker 1>the crowd spreading up into three different clusters and surrounded

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<v Speaker 1>each one there was somebody in the center, a human being.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw at least two of them put a sheet

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<v Speaker 1>over their head and people striking down with the weapons

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<v Speaker 1>and shouting. And from the sound I could tell that

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<v Speaker 1>they were mostly six and handles. That couldn't be Muslim

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<v Speaker 1>in this avenue. And in five minutes, unless the crowd

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<v Speaker 1>started disappearing, before my heart came in. Some of them fell.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw some of them half dead and their body jumping.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never seen person die. Seeing all this through a

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<v Speaker 1>window in his home shanty, felt compelled to act, so

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<v Speaker 1>I rushed to the front of my house, Vent Gate,

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<v Speaker 1>was picked up a bucket. I started putting water in

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<v Speaker 1>the bucket to take it out and my mother came

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<v Speaker 1>rushing out from her because she had she had not

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<v Speaker 1>seen the whole thing. When she saw it, she grabbed

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<v Speaker 1>me and cut back. Don't go out, you'll get carried,

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<v Speaker 1>you won't get ready for are you can't do anything.

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<v Speaker 1>So I stayed and should I don't know if I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to do all. My family want to hang onto

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<v Speaker 1>it again stay. That's where I am here. This date

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<v Speaker 1>also sticks with shanty because he was to take a

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<v Speaker 1>final the next day and heard on the radio all

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<v Speaker 1>exams have been postponed. Soon after that incident, he left

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<v Speaker 1>Lahore to travel Takshmir. We wanted to get out quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>MHM Shanty was told by another family member that he

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<v Speaker 1>could only bring one suitcase with him. In the bus

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<v Speaker 1>that we took, Christian part rods en wife and me

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<v Speaker 1>and my project Christians. There were two Christians, and we

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<v Speaker 1>were going up along the dividing line that became the

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<v Speaker 1>dividing gune between India and Pakistan. We were on the

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<v Speaker 1>Pakistan side because that's where the road was. So we

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<v Speaker 1>were going north to the town at Yambo, which was

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<v Speaker 1>the southernmost town in the state of Yambo and Casa,

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<v Speaker 1>which was a different political entity, and on the radio

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<v Speaker 1>with sometimes the driver, who was a sick versus afraid

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<v Speaker 1>also he to turn it off and keep it on.

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<v Speaker 1>We want to hear and every now and then we

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<v Speaker 1>beduced come there was travel, a bus got stopped and

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<v Speaker 1>certain starts down, people got murdered and so on. There

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<v Speaker 1>are fires have started in sentences down. So they were

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<v Speaker 1>trouble popping up here and there and we didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>where we were heading, into it or into safety, where

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<v Speaker 1>they were dash to get away and be moving. And Luckily,

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<v Speaker 1>by the I forget how late it was. My impression

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<v Speaker 1>was six or seven p him or something, and we

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<v Speaker 1>got to Gumban where you were able to rent rooms

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<v Speaker 1>for the night and they were going to take us

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:03.600
<v Speaker 1>across to cashmere in the morning. Chaunty was in the

0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Hindu majority area, so for the time being he felt

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<v Speaker 1>safe if there were anybody endangered or Muslims. Next morning,

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<v Speaker 1>after a few hours drive, the road goes over the

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<v Speaker 1>dollars areas in the country. Company Hall Pass About Twelve

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:30.240
<v Speaker 1>Thousand Feet above sea level. Once she crossed that there's

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<v Speaker 1>a tunnel and you get a view of Kashmir valley.

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<v Speaker 1>It's beautiful and it's all mostly Muslim or Buddhist minority

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<v Speaker 1>hind so these are two different countries almost, but they

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<v Speaker 1>were all under the rule of one Hindu Maharada, so

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<v Speaker 1>it was safe at the time. He shared another encounter

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<v Speaker 1>that caused intention but said the suit a sho end

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<v Speaker 1>up being okay. Mostly didn't lack. I could feel that.

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<v Speaker 1>But a there were people with guns and weapons within

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<v Speaker 1>thirty ft of me and I was walking through, walking

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<v Speaker 1>on the road parallel to the published Sund border, and

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<v Speaker 1>there was most of the places it was one mile

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<v Speaker 1>apart from Indian territory. I had to walk from an

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<v Speaker 1>area west of them, probably not a long time, but

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<v Speaker 1>by the time when that road came very close to

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<v Speaker 1>the border, but it was not visible because there was

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<v Speaker 1>a sugar cane crop. It had not been harvested and

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<v Speaker 1>across the sugar cane you couldn't see but you could hear,

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<v Speaker 1>and I heard. No, it's just and a few guns

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<v Speaker 1>going golf and some people yelling lags. So going to

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<v Speaker 1>treat to a generally who are Chris and then we

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.080
<v Speaker 1>know that we was troubled. So already you could do

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.399
<v Speaker 1>us to just lie quietly, not make any noise and

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 1>hope that nobody will stumble your way. Shanty son, Neil

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.200
<v Speaker 1>was in the room with us and I had to

0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.679
<v Speaker 1>ask if you grew up hearing any of the stories

0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 1>from his father. Yeah, he would tell me these stories

0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 1>of partition. We met Gandhine. Yeah, I would hear about this.

0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.639
<v Speaker 1>I think one of the things that made the greatest

0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.080
<v Speaker 1>impression on me is, you know, like he's telling the

0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>story of when there was rioting and there were people

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:53.920
<v Speaker 1>who would go out in the streets to call on

0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.760
<v Speaker 1>the crowds to disperse the riot with their words. You know,

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.600
<v Speaker 1>much later I came across start with the King Juniors

0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.159
<v Speaker 1>phrase of talking to madness out of young men, and

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:11.080
<v Speaker 1>that just struck me as such a such an incredibly

0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:15.320
<v Speaker 1>brave and selfless thing to do. Um and incredible to

0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.160
<v Speaker 1>have that capacity of speech, that you can reach people

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:33.879
<v Speaker 1>who are in a nonreasoning state of mind. With this

0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.399
<v Speaker 1>next question, I wasn't sure what to expect. I had

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 1>asked how he coped with all of these experiences. It

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.560
<v Speaker 1>seems almost silly in a way, but also vital at

0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:49.000
<v Speaker 1>the same time. How did I quote? I don't know

0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:53.520
<v Speaker 1>if I have an answer to that is you know

0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 1>a tank which something to happen and you can analyze

0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.080
<v Speaker 1>him and analyze him and and and no guarantee that

0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 1>that analysis leads you to something which you can repeat

0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 1>and benefit from. I find myself in the last year

0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 1>or so again, for some reason, a bad night's sleeping.

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.600
<v Speaker 1>It's not because I was very interesting those dangers again,

0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 1>it's just that those memories coming back and they led

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:35.760
<v Speaker 1>me and took other people to otherwise which I can't

0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:42.200
<v Speaker 1>explain easily. He describes one memory in particular to me

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.920
<v Speaker 1>one night where we were walking in a Jimmu road.

0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:53.679
<v Speaker 1>He had walked about over a two day period, fifty

0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:58.120
<v Speaker 1>miles high. Had Two other people who were villagers from

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:03.920
<v Speaker 1>local village whom I had met in snag and then

0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 1>it turned out to be working for a distant relative

0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:12.560
<v Speaker 1>of mine and deadly and the relative who my dad

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:21.120
<v Speaker 1>never met, uh ans opens. They said, you can come

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.280
<v Speaker 1>with us. They yet come to pick up their son,

0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:29.600
<v Speaker 1>or not their son but their employers son, and come

0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>with us and we have a village and will break

0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.960
<v Speaker 1>their journey on the village. The rest of the time

0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:39.720
<v Speaker 1>we may have to walk or we may be able

0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 1>to find some transportation. So I left with them and

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.680
<v Speaker 1>it's all right. Sleeping in the village was enough problem.

0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:54.639
<v Speaker 1>But when I got the village and soon after we

0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 1>couldn't go any farther because, oh he hired in the

0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 1>radio that there was flooding and Rabbi River. Rabbi River

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:09.520
<v Speaker 1>fogged the boundary between focus son and India at that time.

0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Going north south, shanty recalls seeing numerous boats filled with

0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 1>refugees mushrooms going west. Who Are you? Going East? They

0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 1>had been washed away during the night. The three boats

0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.680
<v Speaker 1>were lost and with them a lot of people. So

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 1>we didn't go. We decided we're going to wait to

0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:40.560
<v Speaker 1>see what the situation is. Record from the hills water

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.119
<v Speaker 1>can come down any time quickly and they can be

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:50.440
<v Speaker 1>flooding without much warning. Shanty and his group are trying

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.239
<v Speaker 1>to figure out their next course of action. There were

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 1>camels and donkeys, but neither could really make it across

0:23:56.119 --> 0:24:01.359
<v Speaker 1>the river. They were blazing hard during the day and

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:07.320
<v Speaker 1>we were totally ill equipped. No water bottles down and

0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>walking Chad is getting into our shoes. You take the

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:18.840
<v Speaker 1>shoe off and hardly walk ten feet when sand gets

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:25.920
<v Speaker 1>in too. So walking one mile in that hard sand,

0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:31.159
<v Speaker 1>if it's like you've been walking half a day. So

0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:36.680
<v Speaker 1>we weren't not we are not confidented for you being

0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 1>able to do the thirty miles or so before we

0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:47.160
<v Speaker 1>reached the river. Meanwhile, India Pakistan travel and escalated into

0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:54.119
<v Speaker 1>it Malatary flight. The road they were taking wasn't in

0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:56.399
<v Speaker 1>good shape, so the group had to figure out what

0:24:56.520 --> 0:25:02.080
<v Speaker 1>did do next. They won't be any even halfway decent

0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 1>road for a while. There's questionable whether to stay in

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:11.360
<v Speaker 1>that village and well, everyone an option were very well accepted.

0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:14.280
<v Speaker 1>These people are cool and they wouldn't. I didn't want

0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:18.119
<v Speaker 1>to take money from US and anyway we're sifted. So

0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 1>we walked. We decided to go and see as far

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:25.040
<v Speaker 1>as we can get and if we have to, was

0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:30.520
<v Speaker 1>they would sleep in the forest. When I head out,

0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:34.240
<v Speaker 1>I did not want to sleep in the forest drive.

0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:39.600
<v Speaker 1>We did walk months and I saw that the forest

0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:44.920
<v Speaker 1>chat some old buildings from a temple complex and there's

0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:48.240
<v Speaker 1>not being used, had not been used for a long time.

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:53.159
<v Speaker 1>So I started asking these people about what some of

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:58.320
<v Speaker 1>these holes wires somewhere found outside this it's a wilderness,

0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:03.800
<v Speaker 1>and there were snakes of tinds, so modeling afraid of stakes.

0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:09.119
<v Speaker 1>So I said I'm not sleeping here. So you have

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:13.360
<v Speaker 1>a choice. We can go down to the Riverside, which

0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 1>is Sandy, but there is also the risk of being

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:22.200
<v Speaker 1>washed down in the middle of the night if it

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:26.959
<v Speaker 1>starts raining in the mountains, or go back to your village.

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I was a tough decision. In the end a compromise

0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:41.440
<v Speaker 1>is made. What if we walk back until we don't

0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:43.320
<v Speaker 1>have to go all the way back to the village?

0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:48.119
<v Speaker 1>But it's sandy and there's no no big flotest around

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:52.280
<v Speaker 1>in the world. So we found such an area and

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:57.440
<v Speaker 1>walked back several miles, and I'm glad we did, because

0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:12.560
<v Speaker 1>it very key. Shaunty said he became better in terms

0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:15.760
<v Speaker 1>of religion. He details in exchange he had with Gandhi.

0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:22.000
<v Speaker 1>I accused him of not acting on its own faith

0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:29.439
<v Speaker 1>and answer it. You're a legocity and adhering to it's

0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:33.960
<v Speaker 1>contributing to it, and he couldn't, of course, understand that.

0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Thought it unfair. I wanted to know. So what do

0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:43.440
<v Speaker 1>you suggest I do? What? So you should speak against religion?

0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:47.639
<v Speaker 1>You know history as well as I do. Maybe better

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:53.320
<v Speaker 1>tell me all the time when Christians, Muslims, Hindus have

0:27:53.520 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 1>not fought each other and not carried each other. And

0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Tell me, why do you believe in God? Couldn't he

0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:05.760
<v Speaker 1>do any better than produce people like us, so he says.

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:09.119
<v Speaker 1>And what would you do if I've talked like you?

0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:13.920
<v Speaker 1>How long did you said, it's not helping people that

0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:17.720
<v Speaker 1>hate each other. So, if your God is there, and

0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 1>God is all powerful, what's the excuse for his being

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:26.399
<v Speaker 1>such a lousy engineer? He was taken aback by my

0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:33.240
<v Speaker 1>sharpness and Gandhi repeatedly asked shanty what he should do,

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:39.840
<v Speaker 1>and shanty responded to denounce religion, he says, if I

0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:43.480
<v Speaker 1>do what you tell me, how long will it take

0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:49.120
<v Speaker 1>for people to agree with me? I said you got

0:28:49.200 --> 0:28:54.800
<v Speaker 1>the winning argument. Probably if would never be no, he's

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:59.080
<v Speaker 1>just so. What can we do? You have to do

0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 1>what you can that. I have to do it I can.

0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:05.560
<v Speaker 1>The last thing I asked was how he felt after

0:29:05.680 --> 0:29:11.960
<v Speaker 1>seventy five years. I've been much of the life in

0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:16.120
<v Speaker 1>my life in order to keep going and do change,

0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:20.000
<v Speaker 1>rich I found difficult to do. Not kept changing. Well,

0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:25.720
<v Speaker 1>thanks can change, and there is a Hilosophy, especially an

0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:32.720
<v Speaker 1>American education, of emphasizing the positive, emphasizing a better time.

0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 1>It came to come. I can't see I am believe

0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:42.160
<v Speaker 1>in them anymore. It's maybe it's just my age. I've

0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:47.240
<v Speaker 1>become very festivestic. I listened to the news, I get depressed.

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 1>He mentioned Putin and the war in Ukraine as a

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:58.920
<v Speaker 1>current example of greed. How can you be optimistic? If

0:29:58.920 --> 0:30:01.240
<v Speaker 1>I a teacher, I who could? I'm be telling you

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.920
<v Speaker 1>so many good people working in so many different countries,

0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 1>and yet for each one of them there's somebody out here.

0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:15.120
<v Speaker 1>You turned the TV on and see how many people

0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:28.360
<v Speaker 1>are trying to give you. Next time you'll hear from

0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:31.560
<v Speaker 1>two brothers who lost each other during partition and finally

0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 1>met in person seventy four years later. It was through

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:38.440
<v Speaker 1>social media and community they were able to find one another.

0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:42.720
<v Speaker 1>NACIA DELO is a real estate agent in Pakistan and

0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:46.400
<v Speaker 1>in charge of the Youtube Channel Punjabi Lahare. He was

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:53.880
<v Speaker 1>a vital component to Saddiq and Sika reuniting. It used

0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:56.720
<v Speaker 1>to take a long time to find people because whenever

0:30:56.840 --> 0:31:01.360
<v Speaker 1>someone used to contact us about a missing relative or kidnapping,

0:31:02.040 --> 0:31:05.200
<v Speaker 1>we used to do everything. Before that we didn't have

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 1>a community to assist with finding people. Now, as soon

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 1>as we upload a new video we get a clue

0:31:13.560 --> 0:31:17.160
<v Speaker 1>because we have quite a few subscribers and people contact

0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:21.720
<v Speaker 1>us or leave notes in the comments. It usually takes

0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:25.560
<v Speaker 1>eight to ten days to find an idea. Around two

0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:30.280
<v Speaker 1>people have met not only their blood relatives but old

0:31:30.360 --> 0:31:39.000
<v Speaker 1>friends and neighbors through the channel. Until next week, an

0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:47.080
<v Speaker 1>haze's and this is partition. Partition was developed as a

0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:50.240
<v Speaker 1>part of the next up initiative created by Anna Hosnia,

0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Joel Monique and your Sinia. Median partition is produced by

0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 1>Anna Hosni, a, Tricia mccagee and back Oramas. It is

0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 1>added it by Rory Gagan, with the original score composed

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:18.720
<v Speaker 1>by Mark Hadley M