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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Traders

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Speaker 1: have had some time to digest the possibility of tariffs

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Speaker 1: by the US on steel and aluminum imports. The results

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Speaker 1: inconclusive and here to help us understand what's at stake,

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Speaker 1: what we need to look for going forward, and how

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Speaker 1: widely this could turn into a trade war. As Caitlin Webber,

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Speaker 1: government analyst focusing on US trade policy for Bloomberg Intelligence, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: help us, where are we at this point with these

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Speaker 1: teriff What has the response been like and how severe

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Speaker 1: are they? Well? The response U after our President Trump

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Speaker 1: announced that he UM intends to impose these tariffs on

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Speaker 1: imported steel and tim percent tariffs and imported aluminium was

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Speaker 1: really severe and dramatic. UM both from UM, you know

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Speaker 1: US downstream UM consumers, industries, everything from automakers to UM

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Speaker 1: even beverage makers were really UM negative in saying that

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Speaker 1: these would um, you know, increase their costs and and

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Speaker 1: and eventually increased costs for consumers. There's also a really

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Speaker 1: negative reaction from trading partners who would likely be targeted

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Speaker 1: by UM these these measures, saying that they were UM

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Speaker 1: immediately preparing some sort of retaliation and response. UM. But

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Speaker 1: at this point, you know, we really need to look

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Speaker 1: for the details and what the tariffs will actually look like.

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Speaker 1: Trump yesterday yesterday was very very dramatic, but also vague.

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Speaker 1: We need to see if they're going to be any

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Speaker 1: countries excluded. You know, is you going to give any

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Speaker 1: indication of how long these are going to apply? And

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Speaker 1: these are going to be some sort of process where

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Speaker 1: companies or countries can apply for exemptions from the tariffs. Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: Our trade wars as easily one, as President Trump tweeted today.

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Speaker 1: Uh uh no, I I would not say so. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's certainly winners and losers, but trade in the twenty

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Speaker 1: one century is not a zero sum game. Uh So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you could certainly see the U. S. Steel

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Speaker 1: and aluminum producers being winners from this sort of action,

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Speaker 1: but losers would you know, be all of those US

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Speaker 1: industries that are importing those products and then ultimately consumers.

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Speaker 1: And then that doesn't even you know, speak to the

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Speaker 1: U S exporters that aren't even sort of part of

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Speaker 1: this fight, you know, U S exporters and agriculture um,

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Speaker 1: you know, motorcycles, bourbon that could be targeted in other

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Speaker 1: countries because of this. So, you know, trade is is.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really not a zero sum game. It's

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Speaker 1: it's really not clear that it can be easily one,

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Speaker 1: as Trump um seemed to portroy this morning. You know, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: one thing I was struck by was how President Trump's

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Speaker 1: proclamation goes against UH decades of GOOP policies. And indeed

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Speaker 1: a number of Republican Congress members have come out and

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Speaker 1: been vocal in their opposition to these tariffs. What recourse

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Speaker 1: do they have? Yeah, it was really jarring yesterday to

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Speaker 1: see a Trump's traditional allies and Congress come out very

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Speaker 1: strongly against these tariffs, saying they're they're seally a giant

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Speaker 1: talks on consumers. But you know, unlike the solar tariffs

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Speaker 1: and the washing machine tariffs that came out in January,

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Speaker 1: Congress really doesn't have much resource or excuse recourse on

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Speaker 1: this issue. I mean, they could hypothetically pass a law

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Speaker 1: that would UM undo any tariffs, or even they could

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Speaker 1: pass a law that would remove the president's authority UM

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Speaker 1: to impose these what are called sexual and two thirty

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Speaker 1: two tariffs. But then you know those are going to

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Speaker 1: be obviously vetoed by Trump and they don't have the

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Speaker 1: votes to override those videos because many Democrats support these

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Speaker 1: tariffs kind of ironically, So at this point, what they

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Speaker 1: can really do is continue to complain and continue to

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Speaker 1: to lobby the president UM not unlike sort of what

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Speaker 1: they're doing at the same time on gun potential gun restrictions.

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Speaker 1: But you know, they're they're their hands are kind of

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Speaker 1: tied in terms of legislative solutions here, Caitlin. You know,

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Speaker 1: you talk about gun policies, and we hear one thing

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Speaker 1: out of President Trump, and then we hear another thing

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Speaker 1: after he speaks with the n r A or I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to understand who given that, who's in charge

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Speaker 1: here with the trade discussion, who's writing this policy? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think that changes from day to day, and it

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Speaker 1: seems like, you know, whoever maybe is in the lead

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Speaker 1: UM you know, on one particular day, is is the

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Speaker 1: person who has the most influence, And it seems like

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Speaker 1: maybe in the past couple week that weeks, that person

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Speaker 1: is Peter Navarro, UM, who has getting promoted to be

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Speaker 1: Special Assistant to the President on trade, who's who's very

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Speaker 1: critical of China, UM, very much critical of free trade agreements. UM.

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Speaker 1: But we you know, we've seen so much flux and

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Speaker 1: Trump's trade agenda over the past year. UM, So I

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Speaker 1: don't think that we're done seeing that those that that change.

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Speaker 1: Even in terms of these tariffs which he said he's

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Speaker 1: going to finalize as of next week. I think it's

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Speaker 1: very likely that UM, other parties in the White House,

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Speaker 1: like Gary Cohen are going to appeal to him successfully

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Speaker 1: to have some some limits here that would really narrow

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Speaker 1: the impact of those once they're they're ultimately applied. Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: just about the twenty seconds, any aty bitty movement on

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Speaker 1: a to renegotiations. You know, these steel and aluminium tariffs,

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Speaker 1: if they do not exempt Canada and Mexico would not

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Speaker 1: be very helpful at all. There hasn't been much movement.

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Speaker 1: There's actually uh talks abom on right now. This this

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Speaker 1: week and they've been completely overstandoed are this tariff talk?

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Speaker 1: I think that they're going to wait and see what

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Speaker 1: happens next week when these when you steal aluneum tariffs

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Speaker 1: come out, and if those are very punitive and don't

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Speaker 1: exclude NAFTA partners, we could see NAFTA talks really grind

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Speaker 1: to a hold. I think much appreciate it as always.

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Speaker 1: Caitlin Webber is our government analysts for US Trade Policy

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us from our Bloomberg ninety nine

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Speaker 1: one studios in Washington, d C. And you can follow

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Speaker 1: Caitlin Webber on Twitter at Caitlin Webber. Using social media

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Speaker 1: in order to spread disinformation, it is a topic of

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Speaker 1: the day and here to help us understand a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about it is David Garretty. He is the

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Speaker 1: chief executive of g v A Research and he can

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Speaker 1: be followed on Twitter at g v A Research. David,

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Speaker 1: let's first have you set out what do you believe

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Speaker 1: to be the current problem and what are some of

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Speaker 1: the solutions. I mean, the problem is is that if

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Speaker 1: we look at the United States of America, the social

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Speaker 1: media companies which we know that Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, which

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Speaker 1: is part of Google now known as Alphabet pretty much

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Speaker 1: have all scaled up and have not gotten to a

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Speaker 1: point where, according to some surveys, UH respondents are using

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Speaker 1: Facebook or other social media feeds as their primary news source. Okay, Now,

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Speaker 1: as we understand that law binding organizations such as this network, UH,

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Speaker 1: you know, there are regulatory requirements that have to be met,

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Speaker 1: and from the standpoint if there's political advertising, there has

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Speaker 1: to be attribution. This has to be made known beforehand,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there's also a responsibility in some respects

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Speaker 1: to make sure that there are verifiable facts that are

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Speaker 1: being communicated. Uh. We certainly understand that if we look

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Speaker 1: at organizations perhaps such as Twitter, that at least fifteen

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Speaker 1: percent if not more, of the accounts on Twitter, by

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Speaker 1: some estimates, are are not backed by real individuals, that

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Speaker 1: these are in effect what are called bots, and to

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Speaker 1: the extent that we have bots that are being manipulated

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Speaker 1: or being programmed in such a way as to take

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Speaker 1: UH news which is not factually supported, which is politically biased,

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Speaker 1: without attribution, and communicating those across um millions of people

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Speaker 1: who are using Facebook and other social media we lead

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Speaker 1: to very very successful disinformation and disinformation and an election

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Speaker 1: contest either leads people to have a skewed point of view,

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Speaker 1: a divisive point of view, or just to check out

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Speaker 1: and not vote and participate. Whatsoever serves to undermine we

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Speaker 1: might argue, the liberal democratic process and of our society

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Speaker 1: which has nurtured these companies. So the question is do

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Speaker 1: we need social media or form I think the answers yes. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: if say Twitter and Facebook were treated as news organizations,

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Speaker 1: how much would that cut into their bottom line and

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Speaker 1: how would that transform their business model? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're making the argument that they're protected by the First Amendment.

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Speaker 1: They're making the argument that they're protected by free speech

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Speaker 1: of the Commons. But as we note and you point out,

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Speaker 1: they are supported by advertising sufficiently, so this might arguably

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Speaker 1: be seen as being more of a form of commercial

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Speaker 1: free speech. If they needed to adopt the standards of

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Speaker 1: other news organizations, certainly their costs of doing business would

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Speaker 1: be going up. But clearly, given the scale that they

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Speaker 1: have attained, they have the resources to be able to

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Speaker 1: sustain those overhead costs in order to be better participants

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Speaker 1: in our liberal democratic system. But what are those costs?

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Speaker 1: The costs arguably would be from a staffing standpoint, We've

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Speaker 1: already had indications from Facebook as well as also Google

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Speaker 1: that they would be putting people on their payroll uh

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Speaker 1: twenty thousand. I think, in the case of Facebook, in

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Speaker 1: order to do a better job of policing the content

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Speaker 1: that was coming across of their platform. Uh. We haven't

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Speaker 1: yet seen evidence that those individuals have been hired. So

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Speaker 1: we may be looking at something which is really lip service,

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Speaker 1: and that the dollars that are being provided by these

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Speaker 1: companies are going more towards lobbying Congress to try to

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Speaker 1: delay or postpone that day of inevitability. David, the Federal

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Speaker 1: Communications Commission is able to designate specific entities as public utilities,

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Speaker 1: and I believe the telephone companies used to be designated

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Speaker 1: maybe still aren't designated in that way because of the

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Speaker 1: reach at the time of a T and T when

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Speaker 1: there was no competition, uh, And there's a format for

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Speaker 1: that to take place. Is it possible that the f

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Speaker 1: c C would be able to do that with these

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Speaker 1: kinds of companies and that they would then have to

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Speaker 1: be treated in a similar way. It's entirely possible based

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Speaker 1: upon historical president precedent. But if we were to look

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Speaker 1: at there and staffing of the Federal Communications Commission under

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Speaker 1: a jet Pie who certainly has seen fit to repeal

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Speaker 1: net neutrality and certainly has been implicated in terms of

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Speaker 1: taking UH money not only from Sinclair Broadcasting with respect

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Speaker 1: to the expansion of their efforts in terms of local radio,

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Speaker 1: but also taking gifts out right from the National Rifle

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Speaker 1: Association or n r A. UH. One might argue that

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Speaker 1: we're not really with a good staffing to make that happen.

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Speaker 1: So we had earlier on the show. Today we had

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Speaker 1: Randall Rothenberg, the chief executive officer of the Interactive Advertising Bureau,

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Speaker 1: on the show, and he was saying that UH, that

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Speaker 1: it would actually be beneficial to have some government regulation

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Speaker 1: if they were looking for perhaps a way to certify

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Speaker 1: the voices on the web or basically have basically something

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Speaker 1: like a fingerprint or identifier UH to where the source

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Speaker 1: of the information is coming. Do you agree and what

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Speaker 1: would that look like? Now? I agree entirely, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, having attribution in terms of political comments, I mean,

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Speaker 1: whether this is necessarily political advertising or whether it's political

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Speaker 1: messaging would be important. I think the first thing that

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Speaker 1: needs to be done is to try to establish reliable

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Speaker 1: identities behind the various accounts that are out on social media.

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Speaker 1: And from that standpoint, you know, looking towards other liberal democracies,

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Speaker 1: in this case, looking over towards Asia South Korea, they

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Speaker 1: have very stringent requirements in terms of people using their identification,

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Speaker 1: their registered resident number as a means before you can

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Speaker 1: open up an account. The same thing is true with

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Speaker 1: respect of looking at other liberal democracies such as Japan.

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Speaker 1: The question is whether we here in the United States

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Speaker 1: are so you know, wedded to unbridled First Amendment rights

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Speaker 1: even for companies that have scaled to massive commercial success,

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Speaker 1: you know, to basically put in place elements of responsibility

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Speaker 1: and to encourage good corporate citizenship. Well, in that context,

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Speaker 1: what has been the response, if anything, from Apple, Microsoft, Google.

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Speaker 1: You could make the case that all of these companies

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Speaker 1: depend on their financial well being by having people sit

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Speaker 1: down or stare at a screen and do things using

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Speaker 1: the Internet. No, certainly, one might argue, I mean Google

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Speaker 1: clearly with YouTube, has a direct interest by maintaining a

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Speaker 1: social media channel which has been implicated in terms of disinformation.

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Speaker 1: We look at Microsoft, we look at Apple. Yes, these

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Speaker 1: are the technology platforms that serve to enable the delivery

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Speaker 1: these types of services. You know, does that perhaps put

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Speaker 1: them too much of a remove um clearly, you know

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Speaker 1: we have instances here where you know, Microsoft has been

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Speaker 1: subject to sanction because of any competitive practices both domestically

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Speaker 1: as well as overseas in the past, but it hasn't

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Speaker 1: extended necessarily to putting out disinformation. One might argue that

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Speaker 1: there really is a need first and foremost for the

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Speaker 1: social media community UH to perhaps do a better job

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Speaker 1: of policing themselves or have others do it for them.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps in this regard, we might have other in the

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Speaker 1: broader technology community here in the US also encourage this

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Speaker 1: type of appropriate and collaborative behavior. Well, we will look

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Speaker 1: out for that, and I'm sure this is a conversation

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Speaker 1: that will be continuing for the months to come. David Garretty,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for your perspective on this and

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Speaker 1: for filling us in on where we are here today

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Speaker 1: on this Chief executive Officer of g v A Research,

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Speaker 1: are you ready for the sixth second? Ad Well, Randall Rothenberg,

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Speaker 1: the chief executive of the Interactive Advertising Bureau, is here

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Speaker 1: to tell us more about this. Randall it's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to have you here in our eleven three oh studios. UM,

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Speaker 1: so tell us about the sixth second ad, the lack

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Speaker 1: of attention that consumers seem to be able to to

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Speaker 1: be able to pay attention for more than six seconds,

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Speaker 1: and what this means for advertising, most from the market perspective,

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Speaker 1: but also for the platforms like Google and Facebook. Well,

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Speaker 1: at the root of the six second ad is the

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Speaker 1: fact that digital video is becoming the experience platform for

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Speaker 1: UM for brands uh more than any other form of platform.

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Speaker 1: And it's been an ongoing adjustment to try to figure

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Speaker 1: out what is the natural standard for digital video advertising.

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Speaker 1: The six second ad has been with us for about

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Speaker 1: ten years. UM. You know, Vine was the pioneer of

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Speaker 1: the six second spot, and it's kind of been evolving

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Speaker 1: into what you might even think of as a natural standard. UM.

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Speaker 1: There's been a reasonable amount of research done on it.

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Speaker 1: We've done research at i EB on it and it

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Speaker 1: seems to indicate that it's pretty sticky with consumers. You know,

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Speaker 1: whether it goes forward as a real standard or not,

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Speaker 1: we just have to see what's the best distribution platform

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Speaker 1: for these videos digital videos. Oh, there's lots of them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously YouTube is a very dominant uh platform.

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Speaker 1: It's effective for many marketers and it's not effective for others.

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Speaker 1: It depends upon the category, depends upon the brand, depends

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Speaker 1: upon the message, depends upon the creativity. UH So I

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Speaker 1: would say is less about the platform than it is

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Speaker 1: about the amalgamation of all the factors. The reason why

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Speaker 1: I ask us because whenever I see you can skip

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Speaker 1: this at in five seconds, I'm counting down the seconds

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Speaker 1: before I could skip it. How do you how do

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Speaker 1: you measure the efficacy? Well, you do it using both

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Speaker 1: traditional means and non traditional means. Traditional means is all

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Speaker 1: the research that goes into awareness preference. But the non

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Speaker 1: traditional means, which is where digital's power actually is, is

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Speaker 1: the ability to attribute a post hoc action to it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, did people look at the the A, did

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Speaker 1: people click? Did they buy? And that's really where the

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Speaker 1: movement is moving to what we call dire act brands.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are enormous numbers thousands of companies that

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Speaker 1: are now establishing themselves across every consumer facing category using

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Speaker 1: this form of online advertising. All right, I want to

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Speaker 1: mention a couple of companies to you and get your Thoughts,

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Speaker 1: Warby Parker, Casper, Dollar Shave Club, bark Box, Glossier. These

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Speaker 1: are companies that you just described as being direct to

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Speaker 1: the consumer brands. Right. We just released a massive year

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Speaker 1: long study on what we call direct brands, and um,

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Speaker 1: those are all representative of this this direct brands phenomenon,

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Speaker 1: And fundamentally, this is not about digital advertising. This is

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Speaker 1: about a uh kind of an apocal shift in the

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Speaker 1: way UH industrial supply chains themselves are put together and

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Speaker 1: managed for value. And our thesis, which we believe the

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Speaker 1: research proves, is that the owned and operated, high barrier

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Speaker 1: to entry capital intensive supply chains that have dominated really

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Speaker 1: since the late nineteenth century have been replaced are being

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Speaker 1: replaced by low barrier to entry capital, flexible least and

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Speaker 1: rented supply chains. So the whole form of value creation

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Speaker 1: in consumer facing, in the consumer facing economy is shifting

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Speaker 1: massively in this direction, which is what allows the Warby

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Speaker 1: Parkers and the Caspers and thousands of other companies whose

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Speaker 1: names you don't even know to come into existence. One

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Speaker 1: barrier to entry that certainly isn't There are many restrictions

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Speaker 1: by the social media companies that end up being the

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Speaker 1: distribution platforms for a lot of these advertisements, and right

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Speaker 1: now Congress is calling for a lot more UH. Some

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Speaker 1: commerce members are calling for more regulation. What what do

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Speaker 1: you think is the appropriate measure, especially as we hear

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Speaker 1: more about Russian advertising on Facebook. Well, Russian bots are

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Speaker 1: a serious issue. Bots themselves are a serious issue. But

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Speaker 1: you also have to remember that bots are just a technology.

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Speaker 1: There are bad bots meeting UH things that can be

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Speaker 1: used for nefarious purposes because the digital marketing and media

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Speaker 1: supply chain isn't well policed by some companies, and the

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Speaker 1: bots that can be used for good purposes as well

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Speaker 1: to amplify a message. Basically, it's another form of automation.

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Speaker 1: So UM. The congressional UM legislation that's being bandied about,

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Speaker 1: for example, the war Uh Warner Klobisher bill in the

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Speaker 1: Senate gets at some things, but it doesn't actually help,

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Speaker 1: uh fix the supply chain problems that are there. The

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Speaker 1: Warner Klobascher bill and most of the other legislation that

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Speaker 1: you're seeing basically aims specifically at paid electioneering advertising. The

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Speaker 1: election ads vote for Trump, vote for Hillary that appear

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Speaker 1: in formatted spaces and time slots doesn't really address UH.

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Speaker 1: The social media infiltration and supply chain infiltration beyond that

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Speaker 1: supply chain infiltration, meaning so you've got you've got. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You have in the Internet a very open ended supply

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Speaker 1: chain in which anyone, almost anyone can plug and play.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you don't have enough companies qualifying their suppliers

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Speaker 1: downstream and their customers upstream. And you need in any

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Speaker 1: other industry, any other industry, the food industry, the textile industry,

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Speaker 1: you have that supplier qualification taking place. Randa Rothenburg, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. We'll have to have you back on

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Speaker 1: fascinating discussion. Randal Rothenberg, chief executive officer of Interactive Advertising Bureau,

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Speaker 1: which is based in New York. Shares of US automakers

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Speaker 1: are falling yet again. General Motors, for example, is experiencing

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Speaker 1: the biggest four day drop in its shares since at

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Speaker 1: one point it's recouped a little bit of of those losses.

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Speaker 1: But here to help us understand what the impact of

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Speaker 1: trade tensions could be on the auto industry, as Jamie Butters,

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Speaker 1: us autos reporter for Bloomberg, Jamie, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. So the reaction in equity markets seems

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Speaker 1: to be highly negative toward auto companies with the looming

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Speaker 1: potential aluminum and steel tariffs, Can you walk us through

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Speaker 1: just why people are so negative? Well, sure, hey, good morning.

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Speaker 1: So you know, steel and aluminum, Steel traditionally, right is

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Speaker 1: what cars were made of. We we rely less on

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Speaker 1: steel now over time, and partly by replacing it with

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Speaker 1: other materials such as aluminum, which can be more expensive

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Speaker 1: but are lighter and therefore you know, better for fuel

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Speaker 1: economy and another efficient use of the vehicle. But these

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Speaker 1: are these are huge components, and the you know, and

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Speaker 1: most of what the automakers buy for building vehicles in

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Speaker 1: the U S is U S steel. But the nature

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Speaker 1: of markets, if you're going to raise the used terrorists

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Speaker 1: to raise the price of imported steel, the price of

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Speaker 1: domestic steal is going to go up. So all the

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Speaker 1: steel and all the aluminum that goes in the whatever

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Speaker 1: fifteen million vehicles a year that we make around here

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Speaker 1: is gonna get more expensive. Okay, Jamie, I mean I

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Speaker 1: understand the argument that you know, the global nature of

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Speaker 1: steel and so on, But you know, if GM purchases

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Speaker 1: of the steel for US production from US suppliers, couldn't

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Speaker 1: they then make the public argument that g you know,

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Speaker 1: we didn't impose tariffs in order to raise prices for

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Speaker 1: our customers. We agreed or the president put forth these

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Speaker 1: tariffs in order to save the eighty thousand jobs that

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Speaker 1: are in the steel industry. Well, but but where is

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Speaker 1: that going to get paid for? Is it going to

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Speaker 1: be paid for out of GM's bottom line or is

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Speaker 1: it going to come out of the customer? But I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: but you're saying that this is like a global global

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Speaker 1: purchasing agreement, Well it's no. Well what the point is

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Speaker 1: that they're buying it locally and the price they pay

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Speaker 1: locally is going to go up, right, because the only

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Speaker 1: thing keeping it down is is this uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: arguably underpriced foreign steel. Yeah, well, I just want you

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Speaker 1: to walk us through if there have been any estimates

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Speaker 1: of just how much uh the steel and aluminum tariffs

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Speaker 1: could potentially increase either the cost of a car to

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Speaker 1: make or the cost of a car to buy for

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Speaker 1: the consumer. Right. Uh, you know, there's a lot that

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Speaker 1: we don't know because there will be exemptions and there

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Speaker 1: will be you know, how how it actually gets implemented.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at it just kind of broadly,

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Speaker 1: it might not be that bad. So if you figure

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Speaker 1: there's eight hundred dollars worth of steel in the average vehicle,

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Speaker 1: of course, look I mean arrange of the average, right,

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Speaker 1: you can have a Toyota Yaris that's a tiny lawyer,

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Speaker 1: you know, Chevy Cruise that's a little thing, or a

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Speaker 1: great big you know, Silverado on fifty. But on average,

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Speaker 1: let's say there's eight hundred to a thousand dollars worth

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Speaker 1: of steel and aluminum in a vehicle. You know, if

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Speaker 1: it's a what are we talking about tariff, that might

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Speaker 1: only be two hundred two fifty dollars worth of extra

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Speaker 1: taxes per vehicle, which on a thirty six months lease,

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Speaker 1: you know, works out to about six dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: You know, so maybe that's not so much. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of but I guess it raises the question the bigger

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Speaker 1: picture of you know, what's the role of government and

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Speaker 1: the role of taxation. We just went through this process,

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Speaker 1: you know, the President has been very proud to eliminate

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Speaker 1: a lot of regulations that were there to maybe protect

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Speaker 1: the air or protect consumers, and we want to get

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Speaker 1: rid of those so the economy runs a little more smoothly.

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Speaker 1: You say, well, hey, what's another six dollars for the

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Speaker 1: you know, fairly affluent people who can buy a new

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Speaker 1: car or truck. Um. You know, it's not that that

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Speaker 1: cost by itself is overwhelming, but you add a little

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Speaker 1: six dollar here's six dollar there, those things can add

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Speaker 1: up and create a much less efficient economy. Jimmy, what

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Speaker 1: about the effect on automobiles that are made outside the

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Speaker 1: United States and are imported. That is a really interesting question. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, again it's not all clear and sorted yet,

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Speaker 1: but as it as it's been described, and what we're

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Speaker 1: if you if you figure we're gonna a tax steel

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Speaker 1: when it comes into the country, that is kind of

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Speaker 1: a disincentive to build vehicles. Here you look at say,

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Speaker 1: Fiat Chrysler is in the process of moving the assembly

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Speaker 1: of their heavy trucks from Mexico to Ohio. I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: to Michigan. And um so if bringing it to Michigan

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Speaker 1: is going to impose that is going to make all

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Speaker 1: that steel subject to the terrorists, it puts them at

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Speaker 1: a disadvantage to the GM trucks that are still going

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Speaker 1: to be made in Mexico. So he might this move

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Speaker 1: could actually give a little advantage to Mexican made and

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Speaker 1: Korean made vehicles. Maybe it's a disincentive for Hyundai to

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Speaker 1: build cars in the southern US instead of just importing

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Speaker 1: them with you know, fully subsidized deal from Korea. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of there are a lot of question

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Speaker 1: marks here, Jamie. I mean, if they start to uh,

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00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: if US companies start to build more cars overseas, that

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Speaker 1: certainly would be a change in the dynamic right now.

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Speaker 1: But just where we are, can you just put this

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Speaker 1: in a perspective, do the auto industry executives who you're

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00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: speaking with an analysts think that the move has been

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00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: overdone given what we know so far, the move by

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Speaker 1: the shares, no with the shares a response to the

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00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: deep negative response. I know, I'm not hearing them it's overdone.

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00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: There may be, I mean, the their rhetoric is very high.

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00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: The rhetoric is very hot within the industry. Some of

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00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: some of the analysts are saying, this is actually pretty manageable.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not a deal, it's not what we want,

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00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: but it's but it's manageable. And so maybe some of

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00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, chairs were down three four percent yesterday for

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00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: most of the automakers. Maybe some of that will recover,

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00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: especially if we start to see some exemptions made for

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00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: you know, critical, you know, significant supplies of steel or aluminum.

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00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: They may be able to mitigate it, but they're very

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Speaker 1: worried about the president that has said the risk of

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Speaker 1: a trade ward breaking out. You've got to leave it there,

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Speaker 1: But thanks very much. As always, Jamie Butter is excellent

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Speaker 1: on the US automobile industry. Joining us from our bureau

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Speaker 1: in Detroit. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and

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00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews at

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00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm

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00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast. You

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