Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,
Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of
Speaker 1: the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and how the
Speaker 1: rest of us can as well. So today I am
Speaker 1: delighted to welcome Olga Hasan to the show. Olga is
Speaker 1: the author of a brand new book that is called
Speaker 1: Me But Better and about whether it is possible to
Speaker 1: change your personality.
Speaker 2: So, Olga, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I'm Olga has On. I'm a staff writer
Speaker 3: at The Atlantic magazine. I've been there for more than
Speaker 3: a decade now, and I'm the author of two books,
Speaker 3: and Me But Better is my most recent book. It's
Speaker 3: based on a magazine cover story that I wrote a
Speaker 3: couple of years ago, and it's based on my own
Speaker 3: personal experience of trying to change my personality for the better.
Speaker 2: Which is interesting, I mean, because you seem like a.
Speaker 1: Perfectly lovely person, so very curious what inspired this, what
Speaker 1: made you think about changing your personality?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you. Well so, yeah, So the way
Speaker 3: you seem to other people is one element of personality,
Speaker 3: but another element of personality is how you feel, and
Speaker 3: whether you are able to accomplish your goals in the
Speaker 3: way that you would like, and whether you enjoy your life.
Speaker 3: And what I found was that often my reactions to
Speaker 3: things were sort of not helping me. They were kind
Speaker 3: of holding me back. So I would have a perfectly
Speaker 3: fine day, but with maybe some minor setbacks. In the
Speaker 3: intro of the book, I talk about a day where
Speaker 3: I got a bad haircut and then got photos taken
Speaker 3: that didn't look good, and then I got stuck in traffic,
Speaker 3: and all of those things really just kind of ate
Speaker 3: away me until I had this like huge meltdown that
Speaker 3: was totally out of proportion to what was going on.
Speaker 3: And I kind of realized that that variations on that
Speaker 3: happened kind of a lot, and I wanted to see
Speaker 3: what I could do about that. So that is kind
Speaker 3: of what started me out on my journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, do you think that's a common thing
Speaker 1: of people sort of having that tendency to melt down over.
Speaker 2: I mean, what are in essence first world problems?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so it's that tendency is related to
Speaker 3: the personality trait of neuroticism, which is basically just like
Speaker 3: depression and anxiety, and a component of that is like
Speaker 3: this this feeling that like you get overwhelmed easily, Like
Speaker 3: when too many things happen, You're not like, bless this mess,
Speaker 3: what a day. You're just like, oh my god, I
Speaker 3: can't take it anymore, you know. And so I was
Speaker 3: definitely in that second category, and I was trying to
Speaker 3: kind of get out of that and more into the
Speaker 3: blessed this mess territory.
Speaker 1: Yes, we all need the motivational quotes up on the wall, right, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: a cross stitch sampler saying those things.
Speaker 2: Well, but here's the question for you.
Speaker 1: I mean, are some personalities better than others? I mean,
Speaker 1: how can we even think about this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's five traits that make up personality. So
Speaker 3: it's openness to experiences, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and then actually
Speaker 3: the opposite of neuroticism, emotional stability, is the one that
Speaker 3: you want to have, and generally being higher on all
Speaker 3: five of those traits is considered like more adaptive in
Speaker 3: science terms, or kind of just healthier and better for you.
Speaker 3: So people who are a little bit more agreeable, a
Speaker 3: little bit more conscientious, they tend to just like be
Speaker 3: a little bit more successful, Like they make more money,
Speaker 3: they have more friends, they you know, are healthier. So
Speaker 3: you do kind of want to be higher on all
Speaker 3: of those traits, but you don't necessarily want to be
Speaker 3: like all the way at the extreme one hundred percent
Speaker 3: more so than everyone else, because that can also start
Speaker 3: to be you know, a little bit a little bit off,
Speaker 3: like obsessive or just just kind of not quite right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as somebody who is one hundred percent agreeable would
Speaker 1: be something of a doormat.
Speaker 3: I say, exactly exactly. You want to be disagreeable sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes when you're disagreeing with the right things to
Speaker 1: disagree with. But I mean, why are we who we are?
Speaker 1: I mean, is this sort of in the genetic mix
Speaker 1: or how we're raised? I mean, how do we get
Speaker 1: our personalities?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we get about forty to sixty percent of
Speaker 3: our personalities from our parents. Doesn't mean we're exactly like
Speaker 3: our parents, but just that's the part that's sort of inherited.
Speaker 3: It's in our genes. So if your parents are sort
Speaker 3: of extreme extroverts, there's a good chance that you will
Speaker 3: also be somewhat extroverted. But there's like a good chunk
Speaker 3: of that about half that is also just comes from
Speaker 3: your environment. And it's not totally how your parents raised
Speaker 3: you either. It's sort of like where you grew up,
Speaker 3: who your friends are, what kind of job you end
Speaker 3: up having, whether you get married, you know, what kind
Speaker 3: of work you pursue, whether you go to college. All
Speaker 3: of those things kind of form your personality and develop
Speaker 3: who you are as a person. And it's it's really
Speaker 3: hard to say, like which of those factors is the
Speaker 3: most important. One researcher described it to me as more
Speaker 3: like a tapestry where everything kind of comes together and
Speaker 3: creates kind of who you are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's an interesting thing to think about.
Speaker 1: I mean, what is personality then, and like the definition
Speaker 1: of personality versus just how I'm sort of responding to
Speaker 1: my life or how you know, things come to me.
Speaker 1: I guess what makes something personality?
Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So for a while there there were some researchers like
Speaker 3: Carol Dweck was one of them who basically thought like,
Speaker 3: there's no such thing as personality, and all we do
Speaker 3: is just respond to situations like, something bad happens, you
Speaker 3: respond this way. Something good happens, you respond that way.
Speaker 3: But I think it's kind of both. So it's it's
Speaker 3: sort of like how you typically respond to situations, right,
Speaker 3: And kind of other researchers who are not of that
Speaker 3: school kind of think it's also personality. One way of
Speaker 3: looking at it as sort of how you pursue goals,
Speaker 3: and and that personality actually helps you attain your goals.
Speaker 3: So if you think about a trait like conscientiousness, you know,
Speaker 3: always being on time, being super organized, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of knowing where all of your tax forms are, those
Speaker 3: things help you achieve certain goals. You probably, you know,
Speaker 3: are going to be on time to your job interview,
Speaker 3: so you're going to get that job. You know, you
Speaker 3: probably are going to eat right, and so you're going
Speaker 3: to live a little bit longer. If those are goals
Speaker 3: that you have, that element of your personality helps you
Speaker 3: pursue your goals. So that's kind of a newer way
Speaker 3: of thinking about it as opposed to things happen and
Speaker 3: we react in various ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the point of your book is that you
Speaker 1: might be able to actually change some of these. I
Speaker 1: mean it sounds like, again, you know, if forty to
Speaker 1: sixty percent is from your genetic background, it's pretty hard
Speaker 1: to change that. But that still leaves a reasonable chunk
Speaker 1: that we might be able to modify slightly. I mean,
Speaker 1: is this doable? I'm just thinking about something like being conscientious.
Speaker 1: I mean, it does, in fact help to know where
Speaker 1: your tax forms are and to know how to get
Speaker 1: to a job interview on time. But if you're not
Speaker 1: naturally inclined that way, I mean, how would one even
Speaker 1: go about becoming the sort of person who knows where
Speaker 1: their tax forms are?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I actually started out really conscientious, so that
Speaker 3: wasn't a trait that I tried to change personally. But
Speaker 3: I did interview a lot of people who became conscientious
Speaker 3: for the book, and they were all exactly what you describe,
Speaker 3: like they had no idea how to start. You know.
Speaker 3: One of them was like a freelance writer who quit
Speaker 3: her job to freelance write and then didn't end up
Speaker 3: doing any writing because she just like was like, I
Speaker 3: don't know how do I begin? Where do I go
Speaker 3: from here. Another one was like this this guy who
Speaker 3: wanted to become a professional psychologist, but he had never
Speaker 3: studied for a test before or written a paper by
Speaker 3: the time he got to college. So what they did
Speaker 3: is they just like kind of for conscientiousness in particular,
Speaker 3: they just set up systems that worked for them. Like
Speaker 3: they really had to sit down and be like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I am going to make a calendar of everything I
Speaker 3: have to do today, and I'm going to assign everything
Speaker 3: to a time slot. You know. The guy who wanted
Speaker 3: to become a psychologist, he made you know, note cards
Speaker 3: of every single word that could be on the gre
Speaker 3: and you know, quizzed himself all day. He found a
Speaker 3: study partner and they just like read like psychology texts
Speaker 3: into the night together.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: He bought a book called how to Make A's or
Speaker 3: something like that and just like yeah, I read it
Speaker 3: and was like, Okay, I'm going to study. I'm going
Speaker 3: to like highlight, I'm gonna take notes. You know. So
Speaker 3: for conscientiousness, it is one of those things where if
Speaker 3: you set up systems that will help you to succeed,
Speaker 3: you actually can become conscientious even if you're not like
Speaker 3: don't have necessarily a huge shift in mindset. It's one
Speaker 3: where really the habits come first and then the conscientiousness
Speaker 3: kind of follows.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, The good news is there's so much out there
Speaker 1: in the world of different systems and ideas and like that.
Speaker 1: There is a book on how to make a's that
Speaker 1: breaks it down for someone who has not done that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you have to decide to avail yourself of
Speaker 2: all this.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and
Speaker 1: I will be back with more from Olga Hassan.
Speaker 2: Well, we are back.
Speaker 1: I am interviewing Olga Hassan, who is the author of
Speaker 1: the brand new book Me But Better, about the science
Speaker 1: of personality change. So we'll go to a different aspect
Speaker 1: of personality, the one about being more anxious, like somebody
Speaker 1: who is more temperamentally anxious. That's when you cover a
Speaker 1: bit more in the book and your own personal experiences
Speaker 1: of changing this. So let's say someone is temperamentally anxious,
Speaker 1: not describing either of us. I am sure, but what
Speaker 1: can you do to actually change this tendency of yours?
Speaker 3: People really hate this suggestion, anxious people in particular. But
Speaker 3: all of the research and all of the strategies and
Speaker 3: everything that I read basically comes back down to mindfulness.
Speaker 3: People don't want to hear that. They're like, I hate meditation,
Speaker 3: I hate mindfulness, Give me something else. Now. It's true
Speaker 3: that neuroticism scores do go down with things like antidepressants.
Speaker 3: I think, like there was a study on zoloft, which
Speaker 3: actually reduces neuroticism. Therapy can also reduce neuroticism. But if
Speaker 3: you just don't want to deal with any of that
Speaker 3: and want to do something your own, it really does
Speaker 3: come down to mindfulness and meditation practices that are really
Speaker 3: proven to bring down anxiety and depression sometimes as well
Speaker 3: as lexipro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well what does that look like then?
Speaker 1: So I says, Okay, I want to be more mindful
Speaker 1: and meditate and hopefully cure my anxiety.
Speaker 2: What should somebody who's thinking about that actually do. Yeah?
Speaker 3: So I took an intensive meditation class called MBSR and
Speaker 3: that involved meditating for about forty five minutes a day.
Speaker 3: And the kind of meditation that they did. There's all
Speaker 3: different kinds of meditation. This one was very kind of basic.
Speaker 3: You just sit and in the quiet and follow your
Speaker 3: breath and it's that same thing of like when thoughts arise,
Speaker 3: just watch them pass by like clouds. Very difficult to do,
Speaker 3: you know, and it is. It is challenging, like and
Speaker 3: I found it challenging pretty much the whole time that
Speaker 3: I that I did it. I will say though, that
Speaker 3: my depressed score went down after I completed the class.
Speaker 3: My anxiety also went down, but not a ton. I
Speaker 3: still scored very high on anxiety at the end of it,
Speaker 3: I think, honestly, like I am just so anxious that
Speaker 3: it worked a little bit, but not all the way.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean it is something. And other people
Speaker 3: in my class, you know, they were like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: totally cured, Like, you know, it works differently for different people.
Speaker 3: But yeah, unfortunately it is just sort of like sitting
Speaker 3: there and you know, trying to follow your breath. You know,
Speaker 3: there's other kinds too. There's loving kindness. Meditation is sort
Speaker 3: of like repeating kind phrases to yourself and others. Some
Speaker 3: people find that a little bit easier because there's actually
Speaker 3: something to focus on that's not just your breath. And
Speaker 3: also some types of yoga can be considered mindfulness, and
Speaker 3: that's more of like a moving meditation I'm not talking
Speaker 3: here about like core power where you're like listening to
Speaker 3: Britney Spears, but like sort of just like a slower
Speaker 3: yoga where you're like really focusing on the breath and
Speaker 3: the movement.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe listening to Britney Spears makes some people less anxious.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: So I tried to listen to music during my meditation
Speaker 3: class and they were like, do do that?
Speaker 2: Like, don't you allowed to do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Not allowed?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean it's forty five minutes the minimum
Speaker 1: viable dose or is there?
Speaker 2: Is it possible to No?
Speaker 3: No, And honestly, the minimal minimum Bible dose is however
Speaker 3: much time you have. If you have five minutes, take
Speaker 3: the five minutes, do some deep breathing exercises, you know,
Speaker 3: try to breathe in, you know, hold it for four counts,
Speaker 3: breathe out for you know, five counts. I forget what
Speaker 3: the exact counts are, you know, but do some slow breathing.
Speaker 3: Even if you have let's say you're you're taking a shower,
Speaker 3: you just have like those whatever five six minutes to
Speaker 3: take a shower. Try to have a mindful shower where
Speaker 3: you just focus on how good it feels to be
Speaker 3: in the hot water. Yeah, it's definitely. You do not
Speaker 3: have to commit to forty five minutes a day.
Speaker 2: That's good because a lot of people don't have forty
Speaker 2: five minutes a day. People would not do it, would
Speaker 2: not do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm sure there's different stages of life where
Speaker 1: this is more possible and less possible. But let's talk
Speaker 1: about introversion and extroversion because that is another one of
Speaker 1: the big five personality traits that you know, we've been
Speaker 1: learning over the years in recent decades more about what
Speaker 1: it means to be introverted and extroverted. Is there any
Speaker 1: reason to change that or to try to push oneself
Speaker 1: one way or the other. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So when I first started this, I really identified very
Speaker 3: strongly as an introvert, and so I was a little
Speaker 3: bit resistant kind of of the idea. I kind of
Speaker 3: wanted more friends and more socializing, but I also wanted
Speaker 3: to stay true to like my introversion, you know. And
Speaker 3: what I really found is that the research kind of
Speaker 3: consistently shows that extroverts are happier. And even if you
Speaker 3: take introverts and tell them to go be extra proverted
Speaker 3: for a few minutes, they come back happier, and they
Speaker 3: also say that they felt truer to themselves when they
Speaker 3: were being extroverted, like that they felt more authentic, which
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to make sense. But basically, what all this
Speaker 3: research is pointing to is the fact that social connections
Speaker 3: really do make us happy. Even if we still have
Speaker 3: that restorative need to be an introvert at the end
Speaker 3: of the day and like sip our tea and read
Speaker 3: our book, we still need that connection with society and
Speaker 3: we can't just like be by ourselves all the time.
Speaker 3: So for me, it was really pushing myself to kind
Speaker 3: of take on more activities, develop some hobbies, and really socialize,
Speaker 3: you know, quite a bit more than what I was doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what would somebody do if they identify that
Speaker 1: as something they'd like to push themselves a little bit on.
Speaker 3: I would really recommend signing up for something that you
Speaker 3: have to go to somewhat regularly. It is really hard
Speaker 3: to in this day and age, commit to socializing if
Speaker 3: what you're doing is like texting people to be like
Speaker 3: let's get drinks, and you're all like trying to find
Speaker 3: a time, and like no one has time, and you
Speaker 3: don't end up doing it and everyone cancels at the
Speaker 3: last minute. Instead, I would sign up for like a
Speaker 3: class or some kind of activity where you prepaid it's
Speaker 3: hard to get out of other people are relying on you,
Speaker 3: or like I took improv and you actually can't miss
Speaker 3: more than two classes, so it'sych. Even if you don't
Speaker 3: feel like going, you better go. And honestly, that was
Speaker 3: actually kind of a good commitment device for me, because
Speaker 3: I think there were way too many days where after
Speaker 3: a long day at work, I didn't really feel like going.
Speaker 3: But what happens is that, like if you actually force
Speaker 3: yourself to go and set aside that time for having fun,
Speaker 3: as like dorky as that sounds, you will have a
Speaker 3: good time, Like you will feel better afterwards. You will
Speaker 3: get that mood boost that extroverts feel. You just won't
Speaker 3: realize it, you know, beforehand.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, one of my biggest tips I'm always sharing
Speaker 1: with people is to take one night for you. And
Speaker 1: I always sort of explain this as like, well, people
Speaker 1: need something in their lives besides work and caring for
Speaker 1: family members. But you know, I'm always saying we'll make
Speaker 1: it as a commitment because you know, otherwise it won't
Speaker 1: rise up the hierarchy. Like your boss wants you to
Speaker 1: stay late, you don't be like, yeah, I have time
Speaker 1: with my bathtub tonight, you know, like you're not gonna
Speaker 1: say that, you'd be like, but if you have this
Speaker 1: improv class that you literally cannot miss, like you have
Speaker 1: a reason to push back. Or if you know your
Speaker 1: kid wants you to drive them to the mall, there's
Speaker 1: a reason.
Speaker 2: To push back.
Speaker 1: And so but the reason it is also making a commitment.
Speaker 1: Then you go and you get the benefit of it.
Speaker 1: And so it sounds like that's what you discovered as.
Speaker 2: Well, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well let's take one more quick ad
Speaker 1: break and I will be back with more from Olga.
Speaker 1: Well we are back. I am talking with Olga Haza,
Speaker 1: who is the author of the brand new book Me
Speaker 1: But Better about the science of personality Change. So are
Speaker 1: you actually doing anything different in your day to day
Speaker 1: life now? Olga, as, there is a result of writing
Speaker 1: this book, but I know other things have changed too
Speaker 1: since you wrote. I mean, you had a kid, for instance,
Speaker 1: that probably had a bigger change on your day to
Speaker 1: day life than anything you did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I did have a baby, so I am
Speaker 3: not meditating for forty five minutes a day anymore, unless
Speaker 3: you count watching the baby like try to eat garbage,
Speaker 3: which he really loves to do, and that can be
Speaker 3: kind of meditative because you're like closing the garbage can.
Speaker 3: He's opening the garbage can, you're closing it. Anyway, there's
Speaker 3: like a Buddhist lesson in there, I'm sure. But one
Speaker 3: thing I had I do do is that I really
Speaker 3: have made it a point to reach out to other
Speaker 3: moms and try to connect with other moms, even if
Speaker 3: it's just like a short playdate or like a short
Speaker 3: honestly like get together, or just like coffee or whatever else.
Speaker 3: And that is really something that's different from before I
Speaker 3: started this project. I really like, I really try to
Speaker 3: do something like that at least once a week, because
Speaker 3: I found that it is like more restorative for me
Speaker 3: to have some social interaction, some kind of shared experience
Speaker 3: with someone else. It is even when I'm really tired,
Speaker 3: it feels better to do that than it does just
Speaker 3: to like sit by myself and like watch TV. And
Speaker 3: I think that has really been a huge change. I
Speaker 3: just realized that I do I do kind of need
Speaker 3: some social interaction like, I'm not one hundred percent introverted,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm like maybe thirty percent or forty percent
Speaker 3: or something like that. But yeah, so that's that's something
Speaker 3: that I do now that I've sort of kept up.
Speaker 3: I would say from this project excellent.
Speaker 1: Well, we always like to talk with people about their
Speaker 1: daily routines on this podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if you have any.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be a morning routine, although I
Speaker 1: know that sometimes when people have very young children, morning
Speaker 1: routines is a bit of a you know, the baby
Speaker 1: wakes up, that is the morning routine. But I'm curious
Speaker 1: if you have any daily routines that help you get
Speaker 1: things done in your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well so yeah, my days kind of like go,
Speaker 3: go go from the minute the baby wakes up. You know.
Speaker 3: I would say, my my, I have like a good
Speaker 3: wind down routine at the end of the day that
Speaker 3: I that I think is helpful. So we put him
Speaker 3: to bed around seven thirty or eight, and then I
Speaker 3: actually work out every day. I find that it is
Speaker 3: like a really good stress reliever and a great break
Speaker 3: from like sitting or like holding a baby or like
Speaker 3: doing stuff that is not like that beneficial for your body.
Speaker 3: So I work out, I have like you know, like
Speaker 3: whatever fifteen minutes to talk to my husband, and I've
Speaker 3: actually started reading more novels. I I like usually have
Speaker 3: a novel that I'm working through, and it's something that
Speaker 3: I've kind of picked up since the baby was born. Weirdly,
Speaker 3: I just like need an escape. That's not like you
Speaker 3: kind of said, like you can't just work and take
Speaker 3: care of your kids all the time. I kind of
Speaker 3: just need that like a mental escape that is also
Speaker 3: still stimulating and not TV. So yeah, So that's kind
Speaker 3: of what I do in the evenings, is I in
Speaker 3: my like whatever ninety minutes of free time, I work
Speaker 3: out and then I read.
Speaker 1: Well, that's fascinating that you work out in the evening
Speaker 1: because this actually is a time that could work for
Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, after they get their
Speaker 1: kids to bed and it's time most people are just
Speaker 1: watching TV or scrolling around online. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are concerned about not having enough energy or
Speaker 1: that it would keep them awake. I'm curious what you
Speaker 1: do that and you've found that's not the case.
Speaker 2: So it doesn't.
Speaker 3: I've always been an evening exerciser, weirdly, and it doesn't
Speaker 3: actually keep me awake. I don't know why. I think
Speaker 3: I have a different chronotype than most other people, possibly
Speaker 3: for a different show, but I am like really an
Speaker 3: evening per and not a morning person. So yeah, so
Speaker 3: it doesn't keep me awake. In fact, I think it
Speaker 3: helps me sleep sometimes. But but I do I'll do
Speaker 3: like a hot yoga class, or I will do the
Speaker 3: elliptical machine. We have an elliptical in our house, which
Speaker 3: I know is a privilege, but that is it's just
Speaker 3: my my thing. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's certainly possible. I mean, you know, many
Speaker 1: people could find a used one on Craigslist. I am
Speaker 1: sure there's a lot of people who just thought they
Speaker 1: would exercise and then don't. Do you actually go to
Speaker 1: a hot yoga class than somewhere I assume.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3: I do go to a like but not every day,
Speaker 3: like that's my once a week for me thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, that's a great idea too.
Speaker 1: I mean because again, the kid is down exactly, so
Speaker 1: like it's it's no real demand on anyone else that
Speaker 1: you go as long as somebody else's home. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's awesome. I love that you have that daily routine.
Speaker 1: I always like to ask people as well, what is
Speaker 1: something you have done recently to take a day from
Speaker 1: great to awesome? So something that you've into your life
Speaker 1: that's made it a little bit better.
Speaker 2: Ooh, from great to awesome? Okay.
Speaker 3: I bought disposable smoothie cups, like like they're paper cups
Speaker 3: that are for smoothies. They have like a lid that
Speaker 3: estraw goes into, so my kid can't reach his little
Speaker 3: hand in and like try to grab it while I'm
Speaker 3: drinking it. And it just makes the morning so much
Speaker 3: better because I can like throw a bunch of stuff
Speaker 3: in the blender make a smoothie. He likes to watch
Speaker 3: the blender go we you know, I pour it into
Speaker 3: the smoothie cup. I drink my smoothie while I'm chasing
Speaker 3: him around as he tries to eat garbage. He sometimes
Speaker 3: drinks a little bit of the smoothie too, and it
Speaker 3: just like makes the morning go a lot easier if
Speaker 3: I'm not like trying to eat a bowl of cereal
Speaker 3: while he's like being himself. So I don't know, I
Speaker 3: just have my little smoothie and then I just throw
Speaker 3: the cup away at the end. I know this is
Speaker 3: that's wasteful, but like whatever, in this time, this is
Speaker 3: what I need, is what you And I got to
Speaker 3: have my smoothe cup and I throw it away and
Speaker 3: then there's no dishes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great, beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 1: Sounds like you also need to put him in front
Speaker 1: of the washing machine or the dryer for entertainment.
Speaker 3: Anything that is like not a toy. He's like, I
Speaker 3: love this, I love this.
Speaker 1: This is of course of course that's what that's what
Speaker 1: they do at that age.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So what are you looking forward to right now?
Speaker 3: Ooh, after my book stuff winds down a little bit,
Speaker 3: we are going to take a family vacation. Uh, and
Speaker 3: I'm going to take a week off and I'm gonna
Speaker 3: read a book and I'm gonna have my parents watch
Speaker 3: my baby.
Speaker 2: Awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even better have the relaxing vacation. They can they
Speaker 1: can keep him out of the garbage care.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. So, Olga, where can people find you? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So I'm a writer for the Atlantic dot com. Just
Speaker 3: the Atlantic dot com into your U r L into
Speaker 3: your browser. And I also have a substack Olga Hazon
Speaker 3: dot substack dot com. And the book is me but
Speaker 3: better and it's wherever books are sold.
Speaker 1: Awesome, well, Olga, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thank you everyone for listening. If you have feedback about
Speaker 1: this or any other episode, you can always reach me
Speaker 1: at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making
Speaker 1: the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
Speaker 1: If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach
Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast
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