WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Marrying Up

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to the shorts. So if I'm Josh and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck, so let's go tally ho. So this one

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<v Speaker 1>is interesting. I think, Uh, it's about the idea, and

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<v Speaker 1>this goes by many names, all of which are fairly misogynistic.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, um, marrying up, uh, gold digging, trophy wife.

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<v Speaker 1>These sort of terms have long been used, even though

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<v Speaker 1>I did see that Forbes magazine claims to have invented

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<v Speaker 1>the term coined the term trophy wife in the nineties. Ah,

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<v Speaker 1>that feels like more of an eighties thing to me,

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<v Speaker 1>don't you think. Ay, that's what Forbes said. I read

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<v Speaker 1>that article. Um, but all to say the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>marrying up, which actually has a real name behind it,

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<v Speaker 1>which is, how are you gonna announced this? Hypergamme a hypergammy,

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<v Speaker 1>hyper monogamy, hypergamy. Okay, hypergamy, hypergamy, that's what I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>with has to say about this hypergammey hypergammy Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>it's basically the idea of what you just said, marrying

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<v Speaker 1>up a woman trading something, usually her looks for a

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<v Speaker 1>higher socioeconomic status. She's marrying a husband who might not

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<v Speaker 1>look as good but makes more money. Um. And she

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<v Speaker 1>is from a lower class, but she's marrying up because

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<v Speaker 1>she has something to trade. That is the basis of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And like you said, it's pretty misogynistic in in general

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<v Speaker 1>as a concept. The sad thing is is it was

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely a part of human history for a very long

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<v Speaker 1>time up until very recently. Yeah, there's geographic hypergamy. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>There was this journal article called cross Border Marriages colon

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<v Speaker 1>Gender and Mobility and Transnational Asia where the author, Nicole

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<v Speaker 1>Constable and by the way, thanks how stuff works dot

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<v Speaker 1>Com for this, talked about, Um, it's the same thing,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's actually um. In addition to finances, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the lady from the farm moving into the

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<v Speaker 1>big city, Uh, to move up both geographically and financially. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>moving from less developed areas to more developed areas, etcetera.

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<v Speaker 1>So um. And again this is it was just a

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<v Speaker 1>thing for a really long time because this was while

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<v Speaker 1>women were considered inferior to men, or maybe we're prevented

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<v Speaker 1>from working outside of the house in some societies. At

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<v Speaker 1>certain times in the past, the one way that a

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<v Speaker 1>woman could kind of control her destiny was to choose

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<v Speaker 1>who she was going to marry. If her culture allowed

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<v Speaker 1>her to choose, and that this was a way to

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<v Speaker 1>like say, Okay, I'm gonna make a good life for myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to choose carefully, and I'm going to choose

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<v Speaker 1>the guy who makes the most money or has the

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<v Speaker 1>most status that I can get to marry me. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>and especially a lot of times you would have, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>probably a father pushing a daughter to do this, So

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<v Speaker 1>it's sort of like a whole families moving up in status. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You certainly found this in different cultures around the world

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<v Speaker 1>in the past. I know that in eight one it

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<v Speaker 1>was first used or first found in a book kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like explicitly explicitly written about um in a book

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<v Speaker 1>called Panjab Casts. That was a book by Sir Denzil

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<v Speaker 1>Ibbotson where they talked about, you know, a man seeking

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<v Speaker 1>to marry his daughter off to a member of a

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<v Speaker 1>tribe superior to his own. So I think culturally that's

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<v Speaker 1>it was a lot of times, you know, parents pushing

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<v Speaker 1>a daughter to do this. Right. So the thing is, though,

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<v Speaker 1>if this is like a worldwide cultural trait, even as

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<v Speaker 1>you have like increasing globalization, eventually you're going to reach

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of stasis where women who are at the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the social ladder and men who are at

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<v Speaker 1>the very bottom of the social lader won't have anybody

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<v Speaker 1>to marry because the woman can't marry up there's nobody

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<v Speaker 1>above her. The man can't marry down because there's nobody

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<v Speaker 1>below him. And apparently some research, especially up into the seventies,

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<v Speaker 1>found that this was actually the case in some cultures.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. Uh, And then we came up with a

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<v Speaker 1>different word. And so maybe we'll take a break, what

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<v Speaker 1>a cliffhanger, and we'll tell you what the different word

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<v Speaker 1>is right after this, alright, laid on ut bub hypogamy, hypogammy, man,

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<v Speaker 1>I think hypogamy if we're going with hypergamy. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>I was also saying hypergammy and I like that too,

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<v Speaker 1>So hypogammy and hyper gammy. It really gets it across

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<v Speaker 1>a little more if you can't see it spelled out,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. I think I just pictures like the skit

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<v Speaker 1>of us when we're you know, in our eighties and nineties, respectfully,

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<v Speaker 1>like sitting around and debating how to pronounce things. Oh boy,

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<v Speaker 1>and I guess we're always will be in there with

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<v Speaker 1>Emily and you me too. I'll just be living together

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<v Speaker 1>in some like community in Florida in the future. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're like just still rolling their eyes there. They

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<v Speaker 1>have a machine that rolls their eyes for them. So

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<v Speaker 1>hypogamy is a marriage between a man of lower status

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<v Speaker 1>to a woman of higher status. Yeah, like a Jefferson

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<v Speaker 1>and Marcy Darcy situation. I don't know what that means

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<v Speaker 1>from married with children Marcy Darcy's second husband Jefferson. I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't see that shore well, I don't remember. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean I watched a little bit. But who were they?

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<v Speaker 1>Was that they the neighbors or something? They across the

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<v Speaker 1>street neighbors? Okay, I think I remember that lady. That's

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<v Speaker 1>a lady who in real I've hated al Bundy in

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<v Speaker 1>real life. Right. Oh, I didn't know that? Is that?

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<v Speaker 1>I think? So? I think they really didn't like each

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<v Speaker 1>other if I'm thinking about the right person. I did

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<v Speaker 1>not know that. Uh. So there's also another word, um,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is as it turns out, basically almost everyone

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<v Speaker 1>is homogamy, which is marriage between people with similar statuses

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<v Speaker 1>and characteristics. Yeah, in our modern world, homogamy seems to

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<v Speaker 1>be ruling the stage. Yeah. In fact, I dug up

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<v Speaker 1>this article from two thousand fourteen and this from Business Insider,

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<v Speaker 1>But there was, it was all over the place, so

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<v Speaker 1>clearly there was just like a study published and researchers

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<v Speaker 1>compared UH quality levels UM such as attractiveness as socio

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<v Speaker 1>economic status within couples, and they found that basically the

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<v Speaker 1>trophy wife stereotype was bunk. Um. It does happen, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's why you see a news story like you know

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones in his I can't remember,

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<v Speaker 1>but let's say it was his fifties married like a

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen year old or something. You know, it's fairly cross

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<v Speaker 1>or the the old that ancient billionaire who was like

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<v Speaker 1>ninety that had like the playboy bunny wife. I can't

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<v Speaker 1>remember them. So like that stuff makes the news and

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<v Speaker 1>you see that stereotype sort of reinforced with these big,

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<v Speaker 1>splashy stories. But the sum of this study basically is

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<v Speaker 1>like that's basically rare, and that almost everybody marries people

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<v Speaker 1>that are like them. Yeah, and um, the one researcher

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<v Speaker 1>in that UM that article basically said, well, some people

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<v Speaker 1>are like no, Like, look at a doctor. A male

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<v Speaker 1>doctor usually has a really beautiful wife. And this researcher

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<v Speaker 1>was like, yeah, look at the doctor. He's probably likelier

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<v Speaker 1>to be beautiful too, And he's probably like doctor Hunk, right,

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<v Speaker 1>he's probably likelier to Mick Dreamy is more like um,

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<v Speaker 1>he's probably he's likelier because he makes more money and

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<v Speaker 1>because he's a doctor to be in better shape, to

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<v Speaker 1>not be overweight, to go to a dermatologist, to like

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<v Speaker 1>go to an expensive hairdresser and do these things to

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<v Speaker 1>be better looking. And then also, by the way, his

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<v Speaker 1>wife actually is highly educated and had her own career,

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<v Speaker 1>but she gave it up to stay home with the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're like missing stuff when you just make these

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<v Speaker 1>presumptions about it. And from what these researchers are finding,

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<v Speaker 1>like homogamy is definitely like the way almost everyone goes,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in the West in in modern times. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And I will also say, and the one bone pick

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<v Speaker 1>to have with his study is they only surveyed couples

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<v Speaker 1>in their early to mid twenties, So that makes a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more sense because I think the traditional sort of

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<v Speaker 1>stereotype of marrying up or the trophy wife is the

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<v Speaker 1>bill wyman, like the older rich guy who may be

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<v Speaker 1>on his second wife goes off and finds like some

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<v Speaker 1>you know, young model to get married to the question though,

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<v Speaker 1>is is does this make for a good relationship? Like

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<v Speaker 1>people get married to people that are more like them

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<v Speaker 1>across the board because those marriages seem to last more so,

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<v Speaker 1>does you know, does the sixty year old retiring doctor

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<v Speaker 1>who leaves his wife and marries the twenty two year

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<v Speaker 1>old that they probably don't have a whole lot in common? Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>Do those marriages work? So it depends, Um, it depends

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<v Speaker 1>on what kind of marriage you're talking about. What they

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<v Speaker 1>found was that I guess economically hypergaminus sure um, and

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<v Speaker 1>homogeneous relationships or marriages didn't have any greater divorce rates.

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<v Speaker 1>They then I think the general population maybe. And then

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<v Speaker 1>it was educational hypergamyss um marriages where the husband has

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<v Speaker 1>more education than the wife. Um, those are the ones

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<v Speaker 1>that resulted in greater greater rates of divorce. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's the stereotype that you think of out in

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<v Speaker 1>movies where like, you know, the older very educated man

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<v Speaker 1>marry some young dim wit and they just don't have

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<v Speaker 1>anything uncommon and that's destined to fail. Yeah, or like um,

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<v Speaker 1>Tommy Lee was really like embarrassed by Pamela Anderson's dizziness

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<v Speaker 1>and was really mean to her from what Yeah, like

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<v Speaker 1>really mean and I think had a real impact on

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<v Speaker 1>her her self confidence for a while. But I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know that Tommy Lee has some great educational background though

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<v Speaker 1>yeah he never struck me as like, oh who knows.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to I don't want to cast dispersions.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Tommy. Don't judge a book by its cover. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>They also have found that this is becoming less and

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<v Speaker 1>less of a thing a period, just because obviously, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in in the modern age, there are plenty of women

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<v Speaker 1>who out earned their husbands and have advanced career wise

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<v Speaker 1>further than their husbands. And I in fact, I know

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<v Speaker 1>some people who like had stay at home dads instead

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<v Speaker 1>of stay at home moms because um, the wife and

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<v Speaker 1>mother had like ended up having a much better job.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think, like that's just happening more and more

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<v Speaker 1>because obviously opportunity has changed a lot since you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the early days of like a family trying to marry

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<v Speaker 1>their daughter off to a higher cast, right, and it

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<v Speaker 1>has changed a lot, But sadly, there's still like a

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<v Speaker 1>big um there. There's the the perception of widespread hypergamy

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<v Speaker 1>in America and Europe still to this day. But the

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<v Speaker 1>researchers found out it's not this idea of marrying up.

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<v Speaker 1>It's that you can you can explain the whole thing

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<v Speaker 1>by the gender pay gap exactly, that if if women

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<v Speaker 1>were paid the same as men, there wouldn't be any

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<v Speaker 1>hypergamy in America or Europe anymore. Basically, yeah, so let's

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<v Speaker 1>get the gender pay gap closed. Why don't we? It's

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<v Speaker 1>always this makes me think of the Sydney Pollocks character

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<v Speaker 1>in the movie Husbands and Wives. He was It was

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<v Speaker 1>sort of that stereotypical thing where this older academic married

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a young woman who wasn't as smart as

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<v Speaker 1>he was, and she was just continually embarrassing him at

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<v Speaker 1>this party and he just snapped at the end and

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<v Speaker 1>they got in a big argument and he yelled, you're

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<v Speaker 1>an infant. And that's one of the lines I say

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<v Speaker 1>a lot. It's just a joke to Emily, and she

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<v Speaker 1>always thinks it's very funny. Who was it? Sidney Pollock?

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<v Speaker 1>Who great director, but boy, he was such a fun

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<v Speaker 1>actor in the movies that he was in. Yeah, he

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<v Speaker 1>was the eyes wide chuck guy. Right, yeah, okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney Pollock, alright, there's one other thing too, um uh don.

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<v Speaker 1>Binary and gay couples I believe actually do have greater

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<v Speaker 1>differences of educational attainment. They're more likely to have differences,

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<v Speaker 1>but I didn't see that they're more likely to end

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<v Speaker 1>in divorce. Yeah, very interesting. So that's it. That's hyper gammy.

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<v Speaker 1>Hyper gammy, which means short stuff is out. Stuff you

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<v Speaker 1>should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For

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