1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to the shorts. So if I'm Josh and 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: there's Chuck, so let's go tally ho. So this one 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: is interesting. I think, Uh, it's about the idea, and 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: this goes by many names, all of which are fairly misogynistic. 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: I think, um, marrying up, uh, gold digging, trophy wife. 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: These sort of terms have long been used, even though 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: I did see that Forbes magazine claims to have invented 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: the term coined the term trophy wife in the nineties. Ah, 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: that feels like more of an eighties thing to me, 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: don't you think. Ay, that's what Forbes said. I read 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: that article. Um, but all to say the idea of 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: marrying up, which actually has a real name behind it, 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: which is, how are you gonna announced this? Hypergamme a hypergammy, 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: hyper monogamy, hypergamy. Okay, hypergamy, hypergamy, that's what I'm going 15 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: with has to say about this hypergammey hypergammy Yeah, okay, 16 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: it's basically the idea of what you just said, marrying 17 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: up a woman trading something, usually her looks for a 18 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: higher socioeconomic status. She's marrying a husband who might not 19 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: look as good but makes more money. Um. And she 20 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: is from a lower class, but she's marrying up because 21 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: she has something to trade. That is the basis of it. 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: And like you said, it's pretty misogynistic in in general 23 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: as a concept. The sad thing is is it was 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 1: absolutely a part of human history for a very long 25 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: time up until very recently. Yeah, there's geographic hypergamy. Um. 26 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: There was this journal article called cross Border Marriages colon 27 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: Gender and Mobility and Transnational Asia where the author, Nicole 28 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: Constable and by the way, thanks how stuff works dot 29 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: Com for this, talked about, Um, it's the same thing, 30 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: but it's actually um. In addition to finances, it's it's 31 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, the lady from the farm moving into the 32 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: big city, Uh, to move up both geographically and financially. Yeah, 33 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: moving from less developed areas to more developed areas, etcetera. 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: So um. And again this is it was just a 35 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: thing for a really long time because this was while 36 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: women were considered inferior to men, or maybe we're prevented 37 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: from working outside of the house in some societies. At 38 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: certain times in the past, the one way that a 39 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: woman could kind of control her destiny was to choose 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: who she was going to marry. If her culture allowed 41 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: her to choose, and that this was a way to 42 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: like say, Okay, I'm gonna make a good life for myself. 43 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to choose carefully, and I'm going to choose 44 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: the guy who makes the most money or has the 45 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: most status that I can get to marry me. Right, 46 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: and especially a lot of times you would have, uh, 47 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: probably a father pushing a daughter to do this, So 48 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 1: it's sort of like a whole families moving up in status. Uh. 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: You certainly found this in different cultures around the world 50 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: in the past. I know that in eight one it 51 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: was first used or first found in a book kind 52 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: of like explicitly explicitly written about um in a book 53 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: called Panjab Casts. That was a book by Sir Denzil 54 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: Ibbotson where they talked about, you know, a man seeking 55 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: to marry his daughter off to a member of a 56 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: tribe superior to his own. So I think culturally that's 57 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: it was a lot of times, you know, parents pushing 58 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: a daughter to do this. Right. So the thing is, though, 59 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 1: if this is like a worldwide cultural trait, even as 60 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: you have like increasing globalization, eventually you're going to reach 61 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: this kind of stasis where women who are at the 62 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: top of the social ladder and men who are at 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: the very bottom of the social lader won't have anybody 64 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: to marry because the woman can't marry up there's nobody 65 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: above her. The man can't marry down because there's nobody 66 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: below him. And apparently some research, especially up into the seventies, 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: found that this was actually the case in some cultures. 68 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, And then we came up with a 69 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: different word. And so maybe we'll take a break, what 70 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: a cliffhanger, and we'll tell you what the different word 71 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: is right after this, alright, laid on ut bub hypogamy, hypogammy, man, 72 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: I think hypogamy if we're going with hypergamy. Yeah, but 73 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: I was also saying hypergammy and I like that too, 74 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: So hypogammy and hyper gammy. It really gets it across 75 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: a little more if you can't see it spelled out, 76 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: you know. I think I just pictures like the skit 77 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: of us when we're you know, in our eighties and nineties, respectfully, 78 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: like sitting around and debating how to pronounce things. Oh boy, 79 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: and I guess we're always will be in there with 80 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: Emily and you me too. I'll just be living together 81 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: in some like community in Florida in the future. Um, 82 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: and they're like just still rolling their eyes there. They 83 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: have a machine that rolls their eyes for them. So 84 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: hypogamy is a marriage between a man of lower status 85 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: to a woman of higher status. Yeah, like a Jefferson 86 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: and Marcy Darcy situation. I don't know what that means 87 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: from married with children Marcy Darcy's second husband Jefferson. I don't. 88 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: I didn't see that shore well, I don't remember. I 89 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: mean I watched a little bit. But who were they? 90 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: Was that they the neighbors or something? They across the 91 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: street neighbors? Okay, I think I remember that lady. That's 92 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: a lady who in real I've hated al Bundy in 93 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: real life. Right. Oh, I didn't know that? Is that? 94 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: I think? So? I think they really didn't like each 95 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: other if I'm thinking about the right person. I did 96 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: not know that. Uh. So there's also another word, um, 97 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: and this is as it turns out, basically almost everyone 98 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: is homogamy, which is marriage between people with similar statuses 99 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: and characteristics. Yeah, in our modern world, homogamy seems to 100 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: be ruling the stage. Yeah. In fact, I dug up 101 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: this article from two thousand fourteen and this from Business Insider, 102 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: But there was, it was all over the place, so 103 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: clearly there was just like a study published and researchers 104 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: compared UH quality levels UM such as attractiveness as socio 105 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: economic status within couples, and they found that basically the 106 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: trophy wife stereotype was bunk. Um. It does happen, and 107 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: that's why you see a news story like you know 108 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones in his I can't remember, 109 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: but let's say it was his fifties married like a 110 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: nineteen year old or something. You know, it's fairly cross 111 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: or the the old that ancient billionaire who was like 112 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: ninety that had like the playboy bunny wife. I can't 113 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: remember them. So like that stuff makes the news and 114 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: you see that stereotype sort of reinforced with these big, 115 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: splashy stories. But the sum of this study basically is 116 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: like that's basically rare, and that almost everybody marries people 117 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: that are like them. Yeah, and um, the one researcher 118 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: in that UM that article basically said, well, some people 119 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: are like no, Like, look at a doctor. A male 120 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: doctor usually has a really beautiful wife. And this researcher 121 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, look at the doctor. He's probably likelier 122 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: to be beautiful too, And he's probably like doctor Hunk, right, 123 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: he's probably likelier to Mick Dreamy is more like um, 124 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: he's probably he's likelier because he makes more money and 125 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: because he's a doctor to be in better shape, to 126 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: not be overweight, to go to a dermatologist, to like 127 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: go to an expensive hairdresser and do these things to 128 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: be better looking. And then also, by the way, his 129 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: wife actually is highly educated and had her own career, 130 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: but she gave it up to stay home with the kids. 131 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: So you're like missing stuff when you just make these 132 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: presumptions about it. And from what these researchers are finding, 133 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: like homogamy is definitely like the way almost everyone goes, 134 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: at least in the West in in modern times. Yeah. 135 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: And I will also say, and the one bone pick 136 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: to have with his study is they only surveyed couples 137 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: in their early to mid twenties, So that makes a 138 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: lot more sense because I think the traditional sort of 139 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: stereotype of marrying up or the trophy wife is the 140 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: bill wyman, like the older rich guy who may be 141 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: on his second wife goes off and finds like some 142 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: you know, young model to get married to the question though, 143 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: is is does this make for a good relationship? Like 144 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: people get married to people that are more like them 145 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: across the board because those marriages seem to last more so, 146 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: does you know, does the sixty year old retiring doctor 147 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: who leaves his wife and marries the twenty two year 148 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: old that they probably don't have a whole lot in common? Uh? 149 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: Do those marriages work? So it depends, Um, it depends 150 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: on what kind of marriage you're talking about. What they 151 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: found was that I guess economically hypergaminus sure um, and 152 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: homogeneous relationships or marriages didn't have any greater divorce rates. 153 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: They then I think the general population maybe. And then 154 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: it was educational hypergamyss um marriages where the husband has 155 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: more education than the wife. Um, those are the ones 156 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: that resulted in greater greater rates of divorce. And I 157 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: think that's the stereotype that you think of out in 158 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: movies where like, you know, the older very educated man 159 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: marry some young dim wit and they just don't have 160 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: anything uncommon and that's destined to fail. Yeah, or like um, 161 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: Tommy Lee was really like embarrassed by Pamela Anderson's dizziness 162 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: and was really mean to her from what Yeah, like 163 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: really mean and I think had a real impact on 164 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: her her self confidence for a while. But I don't 165 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: know that Tommy Lee has some great educational background though 166 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: yeah he never struck me as like, oh who knows. 167 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to cast dispersions. 168 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: I don't know, Tommy. Don't judge a book by its cover. Uh. 169 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: They also have found that this is becoming less and 170 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: less of a thing a period, just because obviously, you know, 171 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: in in the modern age, there are plenty of women 172 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: who out earned their husbands and have advanced career wise 173 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: further than their husbands. And I in fact, I know 174 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: some people who like had stay at home dads instead 175 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: of stay at home moms because um, the wife and 176 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: mother had like ended up having a much better job. 177 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: And I think, like that's just happening more and more 178 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: because obviously opportunity has changed a lot since you know, 179 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: the early days of like a family trying to marry 180 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: their daughter off to a higher cast, right, and it 181 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: has changed a lot, But sadly, there's still like a 182 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: big um there. There's the the perception of widespread hypergamy 183 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: in America and Europe still to this day. But the 184 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: researchers found out it's not this idea of marrying up. 185 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: It's that you can you can explain the whole thing 186 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: by the gender pay gap exactly, that if if women 187 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: were paid the same as men, there wouldn't be any 188 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: hypergamy in America or Europe anymore. Basically, yeah, so let's 189 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: get the gender pay gap closed. Why don't we? It's 190 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: always this makes me think of the Sydney Pollocks character 191 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: in the movie Husbands and Wives. He was It was 192 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: sort of that stereotypical thing where this older academic married 193 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: sort of a young woman who wasn't as smart as 194 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: he was, and she was just continually embarrassing him at 195 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: this party and he just snapped at the end and 196 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: they got in a big argument and he yelled, you're 197 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: an infant. And that's one of the lines I say 198 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: a lot. It's just a joke to Emily, and she 199 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: always thinks it's very funny. Who was it? Sidney Pollock? 200 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: Who great director, but boy, he was such a fun 201 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: actor in the movies that he was in. Yeah, he 202 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: was the eyes wide chuck guy. Right, yeah, okay, yeah, 203 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: Sydney Pollock, alright, there's one other thing too, um uh don. 204 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: Binary and gay couples I believe actually do have greater 205 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: differences of educational attainment. They're more likely to have differences, 206 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: but I didn't see that they're more likely to end 207 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: in divorce. Yeah, very interesting. So that's it. That's hyper gammy. 208 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: Hyper gammy, which means short stuff is out. Stuff you 209 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For 210 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 211 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 212 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 1: M