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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, thanks for joining us today on Table for two.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bruce and we are in my hometown, NYC at

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Speaker 1: Via Coroda.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna order some lunch, Okay, I mean, I know usually,

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Speaker 2: I guess the last night today we were having lunch

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Speaker 2: with a man who has come out with his memoir

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Speaker 2: called When the Going Was Good and.

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Speaker 1: Editor's Adventures during the Last Golden Age of Magazines. Mister

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Speaker 1: Graydon Carter, I'm gonna do the beat salad and the chicken.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'll have the and I might have the I

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Speaker 3: think it was the best restaurant you are.

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Speaker 4: Thank you do.

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Speaker 3: That's a big thing coming from.

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Speaker 5: So pull up a chair, grab a glass rose, and enjoy.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bruce Bosi and this is my podcast Table for two.

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Speaker 5: So if you've pulled up a chair.

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Speaker 1: Today on Table for two, we were sitting with a

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Speaker 1: man himself, mister Graydon Carter. Graydon's come out with a

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Speaker 1: book which Graydon, It's a great memoir.

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Speaker 5: It really is well was good in.

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Speaker 1: Editors Adventures during the Last Golden Age of magazines, not

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Speaker 1: only because I actually saw my name in it, which

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Speaker 1: blew me away.

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Speaker 5: I guess.

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Speaker 1: My first question is why is this the time for

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Speaker 1: you to tell your story, do you think?

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Speaker 3: Oh no, it happened completely backs And I was having lunch

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Speaker 3: with a friend of mine, James Fox, the great journalist

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Speaker 3: who wrote wrote the book White Mischief and wrote worked

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Speaker 3: with Keith Richards on his memoir Life, which was a

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Speaker 3: huge bestseller. And he said if I ever decided to

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Speaker 3: do a memoir that he would help me. And I'd

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Speaker 3: never even thought of it up to that point. And

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Speaker 3: then I had was approached by Bob Barnett, who's he's

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Speaker 3: a lawyer of Williams and Connolly, but he also represents.

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Speaker 4: Authors.

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Speaker 3: He represents you know, presidents and popes, who represented the Clintons,

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Speaker 3: the Obamas, and he you know, he's Bob Woodward's agents,

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Speaker 3: and so he said he would love to represent me,

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Speaker 3: and so so, you know, we I coupled together a proposal.

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Speaker 4: I thought.

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Speaker 3: I retired from Benny Fair, I had a little bit

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Speaker 3: more time on my hands, and and I and it

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Speaker 3: made me think that I realized that as I sort

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Speaker 3: of did the proposal, that I had lived through this

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Speaker 3: incredible golden age of of magazines that was very sort

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Speaker 3: of glamorous and fun. But because do great work and

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Speaker 3: great journalism, and James was invaluable because he you know,

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Speaker 3: he knew how to organize. He was helpful in organizing

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Speaker 3: the book and he would talk to some of my

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Speaker 3: ex employees that I was real like, you know, colleagues,

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Speaker 3: because I was sort of too embarrassed to say, can

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Speaker 3: we talk about me? And this way he could do

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Speaker 3: that and then he sort of guided me through the process.

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Speaker 3: I'd worked on it in with him in the South

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Speaker 3: of France, in New York, in Connecticut, and in London.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because when you know that you worked on

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Speaker 1: it with someone and you're such a great writer and

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Speaker 1: your your letters always in you know, the editor's letters

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Speaker 1: were so great that one would But now I understand

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Speaker 1: too because it is a sort of weird thing to

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Speaker 1: not only formulate it and put it together, but ask

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Speaker 1: people for things.

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Speaker 5: Working with someone that you.

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Speaker 3: Will He would tell me what's boring and what's not boring,

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Speaker 3: and hopefully we left the non boring stop out as

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Speaker 3: much as possible.

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Speaker 6: Really did.

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Speaker 3: Also, I like having a partner quite frank I'm not

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Speaker 3: that sort of solitary writer and a Garrett sort of person,

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Speaker 3: and I adore his company and it made it a

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Speaker 3: lot more fun than if I'd done it just myself,

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Speaker 3: a lot.

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Speaker 1: More fun having grown up, and I used to save

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Speaker 1: all my vanit affairs. I still have a big stack

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Speaker 1: of them. The covers were so great, the articles were

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Speaker 1: so great. I mean, you created something, because everything always

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Speaker 1: sort of reveals itself. When did you start to smell

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Speaker 1: the discontent or the age was ending?

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Speaker 3: Well, the Internet and the Internet and the financial crash

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Speaker 3: of two thousand and eight really caused magazines a great

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Speaker 3: deal of trouble. The Internet sort of gobbled the week

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Speaker 3: The Internet sort of gobbled the weeklies first, and it

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Speaker 3: was slower to get to the monthlies. But then at

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Speaker 3: the same time, the financial crash had dried up a

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Speaker 3: lot of advertising pages. We didn't suffer that much because

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Speaker 3: I had a very close connection to my advertisers. I

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Speaker 3: wrote thank you notes every month. But then the newstand

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Speaker 3: just started disappearing. And in New York, you know, every

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Speaker 3: major street corner had either one or two newstands on them.

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Speaker 3: And now when you see a newsstand on a street

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Speaker 3: corner in New York, you think it's like part of

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Speaker 3: a movie. Said so, and every every building, every office

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Speaker 3: building in the had a news stand in the lobby,

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Speaker 3: and now if they do, they sell gum and lotto

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Speaker 3: tickets where there's no magazine.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: In fact, when we moved to one World Trade Center,

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Speaker 3: when Connie Nass moved there, I don't think anybody who

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Speaker 3: thought to ask for a news stand in the lobby.

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Speaker 4: There wasn't one.

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Speaker 3: We had to send somebody time to Square to get

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Speaker 3: a magazine. There was a so called efficiency move a

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Speaker 3: foot that would combine all half of my staff into

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Speaker 3: a group run.

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Speaker 4: By and a win tour.

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Speaker 3: And I thought I'd worked with these people for twenty

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Speaker 3: five years. They were key to the magazine. That was

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Speaker 3: the art direction staff, the photo staff, the fact checking staff,

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Speaker 3: and the legal staff. And I thought I couldn't possibly

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Speaker 3: work that way without the regular people I had, because

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Speaker 3: they knew these like the fact checkers and the researchers.

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Speaker 3: They knew that every writer's strengths and weaknesses, and they

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Speaker 3: were the ones who kept us.

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Speaker 4: Out of court or libel actions.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, and so you know, when Anna tried to

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Speaker 3: take home half my staff, and I don't I mean,

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 4: Blame her in anyway, but it just had that sort

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Speaker 4: of marked the end for me.

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Speaker 5: And then I'm sure.

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Speaker 3: My wife Anna had been pestering me to retire, and

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Speaker 3: so I thought I was coming up to twenty five years,

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Speaker 3: and I thought that's a nice tidy number. So she

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Speaker 3: went ahead and rented a house in the south of France.

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Speaker 3: They had sort of finalized the whole thing because it

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Speaker 3: started in December and my last day was I think

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Speaker 3: sometime in November, and three days later we were on

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Speaker 3: a flight to Europe, So it is that amazing.

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Speaker 1: How did it feel after twenty five years? And I

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Speaker 1: want to really go through sort of the editorial, like

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Speaker 1: you know, I would love you to explain what the

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Speaker 1: editor does, and you were.

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Speaker 4: Not that much by Oh yeah, we will, I'll do

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Speaker 4: my best.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about that with your magazine because your

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Speaker 1: magazine was so curated, so perfectly and so beautiful. But

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Speaker 1: when you woke up in France after twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: did it feel like oh okay?

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Speaker 4: It was like I was, I have not missed a

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Speaker 4: single thing. It's funny.

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Speaker 3: I thought I'd missed having a car and driver, but

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Speaker 3: they invented this thing called.

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Speaker 4: Uber so that took care of that.

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Speaker 3: And I missed not seeing my colleagues when I was

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Speaker 3: over there. But Brad, you know, Airmail is staffed with

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Speaker 3: old Benny Fair hands, and I see all my colleagues

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Speaker 3: on a regular basis, so I don't I don't. I

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Speaker 3: don't now miss them because I see them. And it

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Speaker 3: was like losing like fifty pounds overnight, you know, I

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Speaker 3: felt healthier. It was, you know, running those big, a

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Speaker 3: big magazine like that under a lot of is a

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Speaker 3: lot of stress, and I I felt immensely relieved when

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Speaker 3: it was over, and I you know, I could wake

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Speaker 3: up in my own hours. I saw I got about

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Speaker 3: two thousand letters after I retired, and I took a

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Speaker 3: couple of months and answered every single one of them.

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Speaker 5: Wow. So I mean, well that's reflective like this access.

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Speaker 1: I think of Vanity Fair and of you, and I

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Speaker 1: kind of want to go a little bit back in

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Speaker 1: your life.

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Speaker 5: Is the why the parties were something?

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Speaker 1: Why you is the attention to detail and the level

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Speaker 1: of elegance and respect that you make sure you have

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Speaker 1: an aesthetic that sort of I mean, you're from Ottawa,

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Speaker 1: You're from Canada. You love you know, you have an

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Speaker 1: incredible restaurant here in New York called Waverley.

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Speaker 5: The Waverley in and it's beautiful in the foot.

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Speaker 1: How did you sort of develop this aesthetic from being

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Speaker 1: a kid from Ottawa who worked in the I mean

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Speaker 1: the early years of your life were tough.

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Speaker 4: They weren't dead tough.

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Speaker 3: I mean my parents I sent My parents were like

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Speaker 3: a lot of my parents' friends. They sent their sons

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Speaker 3: off to work somewhere out in the West coast, either

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Speaker 3: on the oil fields or the railroad, to toughen them

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Speaker 3: up before they started college and got on with their lives.

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Speaker 3: And I worked for six months for the Canadian Railroad

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Speaker 3: and National Railroad out of the Prairie as a lineman,

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Speaker 3: and I lived in a box car with eleven man

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Speaker 3: I couldn't believe, many of whom had sort of criminal records,

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Speaker 3: some minors, some slightly less so. And I adored these

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Speaker 3: guys and I had a great time and it taught me.

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Speaker 4: It taught me a ton.

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Speaker 3: First of all, I got over my fear of heights,

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Speaker 3: because you had to climb first twenty foot telegraph poles

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Speaker 3: and then thirty foot ones.

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Speaker 4: And it was hard labor, and it was really.

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Speaker 3: Enjoyable, and I felt an enormous sense of accomplishment.

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Speaker 4: So and a tough it did tough me up.

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Speaker 3: I came back with muscles I didn't know I had,

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Speaker 3: all of which are probably gone now. And so but I,

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Speaker 3: you know, I felt, Okay, I'm done with that, and

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Speaker 3: now it's time to get on with an adult life.

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Speaker 3: And I care about little things because I just do.

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 3: I spent you know, I had a magazine in college

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Speaker 3: that was a literary political magazine, and it used to

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Speaker 3: spend hours and hours and hours there and spend sometimes

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Speaker 3: eighteen hours a day the Canadian Review, and it was

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Speaker 3: it was not very good. It was a magazine put

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Speaker 3: up by a bunch of young people who had never

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Speaker 3: worked at a magazine before.

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Speaker 4: And what was it like articles?

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Speaker 3: It was like it was like a like a very

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Speaker 3: bad collegiate version of Harper's or The Atlantic, and uh,

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Speaker 3: it just never did anything but lose money. And uh,

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Speaker 3: the Canadians like they the Canadian writers produced poetry at

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Speaker 3: incredible an incredible volume, and so that I hate contemporary poetry,

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Speaker 3: or not all of it, but I hate most of it,

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Speaker 3: at least the stuff that was being sent to me.

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Speaker 3: And I used to just at one point I just

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Speaker 3: the staff found caught me. They were very big on poetry.

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Speaker 3: And they caught me shoveling a load of recent submissions

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Speaker 3: into the waste basket one day, and they revolted on

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Speaker 3: masks and I had to bring in the news style.

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Speaker 3: And there was at this point you were I was

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Speaker 3: like twenty, and there just it was constant infighting. And

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Speaker 3: you have no idea the level of infighting at a

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Speaker 3: small magazine. And but you know, we eventually sold it

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Speaker 3: to our closest competitor, and it got me a job

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Speaker 3: at Time magazine.

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Speaker 1: You talk about New York at a time where I

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Speaker 1: was growing up in New York and was in the seventies,

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Speaker 1: was in elementary school, but like ending by like fourteen,

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Speaker 1: so hitting nineteen eighty to fifteen, and New York truly

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Speaker 1: was and I can from at any I think at

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Speaker 1: any stage you were in a magical.

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Speaker 5: Place in the seventies, it just was.

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Speaker 1: I agree, explain what New York was to you, because

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Speaker 1: you really came and again impressive, the tweed blazer that

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Speaker 1: you know you're sweating your ass off.

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Speaker 5: When you're trying to like a dime in your pocket

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Speaker 5: for a phone call.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't have New York clothes.

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Speaker 3: I didn't have you know, like like you know, seer

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Speaker 3: soccer suits or anything like that, because Canada is much

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Speaker 3: colder and I didn't have to wear a suit that much,

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Speaker 3: so I only came.

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Speaker 4: I only had a.

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Speaker 3: Huge thick tweet jacket and a huge thick blue blazer.

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Speaker 3: And uh, I just love. I was so excited to

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Speaker 3: be New York. They burned as you know, they were

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Speaker 3: burned out cars. There was prostitutes everywhere. There's drugs everywhere,

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Speaker 3: there was there was like crime and fasted feet. Was

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Speaker 3: I've never been more excited. And you know, also when

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Speaker 3: you look back, it was New York was it was

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Speaker 3: sort of more free wheeling than it is now.

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Speaker 5: And I'm not even no comparison.

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Speaker 3: No comparison, and and I mean I appreciate that it's

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Speaker 3: less pre wheeling now that I'm older.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't want to be like the seventies again, for sure.

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Speaker 3: I mean my brid was, yeah, two hundred dollars a

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Speaker 3: month from apartment not.

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Speaker 4: Far from here.

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Speaker 5: Chewing gum was ten cents twenty.

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Speaker 1: I mean every I know, it's sound hot, the concrete,

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Speaker 1: well it's those eywhere else. Probably the you could go to, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, a movie for two bucks.

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Speaker 5: I mean you could go out and have a full

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Speaker 5: dinner movie.

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Speaker 1: Experience for twenty bucks. That was at that but more

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Speaker 1: so it was there was like anything could happen. And

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Speaker 1: and anyone who has lived through that, who I've spoken to,

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Speaker 1: it's not like we're glamorizing something. We're just appreciating sort

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Speaker 1: of the I think something that you are so good.

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Speaker 5: At, the authenticity of what it was. And how did

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Speaker 5: those years gifts?

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Speaker 1: I think, I think they really do influence influence you

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Speaker 1: in Time Life Spy to then get to Vanity Fair

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Speaker 1: because you go.

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Speaker 5: From satirical to satorial.

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Speaker 1: So it's an interesting at some point you made a

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Speaker 1: shift in something.

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Speaker 3: Well, as you get older and as you get paid

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Speaker 3: a little more, you can dress a little better and

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Speaker 3: so and I have the love clothes. I'm not interested

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Speaker 3: in patch that money at all, but I really love clothes.

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Speaker 3: And also close I'm putting on a beautiful suit in

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Speaker 3: the morning makes.

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Speaker 4: You feel better about the entire day, all right, So.

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Speaker 3: No, it just everything was sort of gradual, and I

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Speaker 3: was so just happy to be in New York. And

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Speaker 3: there was a review in the Washington Post with the

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Speaker 3: credits really funny, so compared me to Buddy in l

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Speaker 3: and I thought, hey, that's really offensive.

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Speaker 4: B it's really funny. And see it's really accurate.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the great facets of your personality when

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Speaker 1: you read this book too, is you fine when it's bad,

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Speaker 1: but then you're like, but you know what, I really

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Speaker 1: that was really funny.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, Canadians are very happy people. Look at the

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Speaker 3: Canadians you probably know in York, Mark and Short, Catherine O'Hara.

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Speaker 3: They're really happy people, right, They're really very affable. And

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Speaker 3: it's not a it's not a just a surface happiness.

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Speaker 3: They're happy, right, And I think they're especially happy to

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Speaker 3: be in America.

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Speaker 5: This other than I think is right.

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Speaker 7: Up until the last couple of months.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back to Table for two.

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Speaker 1: After writing for Time and then Life Magazine, our guest

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Speaker 1: Graydon Carter co founded Spy, a satirical magazine.

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Speaker 5: That ran for twelve years. What inspired him to make

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Speaker 5: the leap?

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Speaker 1: What kind of gave you the cajones to say now

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Speaker 1: I'm going back out on my own.

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Speaker 4: Wellus having had a magazine in coll It just I

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Speaker 4: knew how to make a magazine. I didn't know how

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Speaker 4: to make a good magazine yet. And I knew, but

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Speaker 4: I knew the.

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Speaker 3: Elements of Megia magazine, and so I teamed up. When

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Speaker 3: I was at Life, I was a little bored. The

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Speaker 3: city had come out of that seventies period, burned out,

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Speaker 3: car has been towed away, with less drugs and prostitution,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden the city was washed with

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Speaker 3: investment bankers right and money and ladies who lunch and

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Speaker 3: people like Donald Trump and Riona Helmsley.

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Speaker 1: And Steinberg, Sawberg, Godfrey, Shebang.

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Speaker 3: So so it was accidentally really good timing. And so

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Speaker 3: I teamed up with Kurt Anderson, who I had met

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Speaker 3: at Time magazine, and over a nine month period he'd

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Speaker 3: come up to my office at Life every day and

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Speaker 3: we'd work on a proposal for a magazine called Spy,

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Speaker 3: which would be a funny, journalistic magazine.

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Speaker 4: About New York City.

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Speaker 3: And then we raised the money and we both left

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Speaker 3: our jobs, and it was.

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Speaker 4: A shockingly big hit at the time.

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Speaker 1: So when you were sitting with one another and you're

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Speaker 1: now putting together the issue, how did you target the

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Speaker 1: person that you're like?

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Speaker 3: Didn't target anybody other than we just tried to make

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Speaker 3: each other laugh, and we thought if we laugh, other

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Speaker 3: people will do.

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Speaker 5: And the covers were quite interesting.

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Speaker 4: They were good. We had no money, but we did

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Speaker 4: our best with covers, and.

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Speaker 3: We had sometimes we had very primitive versions of photoshop,

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Speaker 3: but we haven't. We attracted a number of good photographers

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Speaker 3: to shoot the covers, and we did the covers in

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Speaker 3: the way.

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Speaker 4: That Lauren did Saturday Night Live.

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Speaker 3: In the early days, we thought we were sort of

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Speaker 3: not ready for prime time, but we wanted people on

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Speaker 3: the covers.

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Speaker 4: It'd be like the guest stars on Saturday and Live,

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Speaker 4: that the.

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Speaker 3: Reader would recognize the people on the cover, if not necessarily.

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Speaker 4: In the early stages, the writers of the.

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Speaker 3: Magazine, okay, so we had like, yeah, famous, like Chris

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Speaker 3: Elliott was on our famous cover for people who don't know,

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Speaker 3: Chris Elliott was a big thing when David.

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Speaker 5: Le Chris Elliott, who is so funny, very funny. So

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Speaker 5: then because really it's the road to.

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Speaker 1: Vanity fair that I think pivots, probably pivots your whole

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Speaker 1: life in this way, and you leave that room, it

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Speaker 1: seems like you're leaving a room and coming into another

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Speaker 1: room of now elevating the people in a way that

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Speaker 1: you were.

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Speaker 4: Now satirizing just writing in a straightforward way.

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Speaker 3: But there was a after we sold Spy after five

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Speaker 3: years to excuse me, Johnny Pagazzi and Charles Sacci, and

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Speaker 3: then I went and edited The New York Observer. It

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Speaker 3: was very sleepy, upper each side broadsheet. It was salmon colored.

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Speaker 3: It had some New York Times type type face is

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Speaker 3: on the front page. After about six months they caught

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Speaker 3: on and I started sending complimentary copies to friends of mine,

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Speaker 3: A lot of them were editors in Europe. And then

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Speaker 3: sign new House, who made a.

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Speaker 4: Twice yearly trip to all his properties in Europe. Young

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Speaker 4: you know, Vogue and The Fair and The New Yorker.

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Speaker 3: And Details and GQ and Architective Digists and a dozen

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Speaker 3: other magazines. So he would go to visit and go

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Speaker 3: to London, Paris, Milan where their offices were in Europe.

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Speaker 3: And at one point, everywhere he went he'd see a

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Speaker 3: copy of The New York Observer in the editors in boxes.

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Speaker 3: And he came back thinking that this the paper was

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Speaker 3: this international success. I mean, it wasn't. I was, I

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Speaker 3: was sending them copies, but it was. It was a

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Speaker 3: success in New York. And so he he asked me

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Speaker 3: if I'd like to get together. And I'd met him previous.

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Speaker 3: Anna Winter and introduced me to him, and so I

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Speaker 3: went to his apartment and he said, like, I wonder

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Speaker 3: if you'd be interested in one or two of the

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Speaker 3: magazine and I said, all Earth, and he said either

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Speaker 3: The New Yorker or Vanity Fair.

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Speaker 4: And I thought, oh my god. Right. So I we

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Speaker 4: had made religious fun.

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Speaker 3: Of Banny Fair, both the writing style, the editors, some

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Speaker 3: of the contributors, and I thought, so he said, well,

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Speaker 3: let's let's do the New York for them. And so

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Speaker 3: I worked on a plan for The New Yorker. And

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Speaker 3: then two weeks before no the day was supposed to

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Speaker 3: be announced. This is This is about two weeks after

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Speaker 3: he'd operated to me. So the day was supposed to

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Speaker 3: be announced, and a Winter calls me up and says,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be the other magazine.

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Speaker 4: So I said, uh, okay, okay.

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Speaker 3: And by that time, you know, I'm sort I had

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Speaker 3: no plan for Vanity Fair, but I felt that after

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Speaker 3: he offered me the job, and I accepted that I

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Speaker 3: had to get to work right away otherwise you wouldn't

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Speaker 3: pay me. And I had three kids at that point

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Speaker 3: and another one on the way. So I went to

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Speaker 3: work right away without a plan, and so it took

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Speaker 3: me a full two years to to pull together issues

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Speaker 3: that I wanted rather than ones I could just get

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Speaker 3: my hands on stories and photographs. I could get my

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Speaker 3: hands on them. And also there was a number of

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Speaker 3: people left over from the old regime who delighted and

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Speaker 3: spreading tales of my incompetency and inadequizines around town at

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Speaker 3: dinner parties.

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Speaker 4: And I finally, I tried to work with them.

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Speaker 3: For two years to bring them around to my way

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Speaker 3: of thinking, the way I like to work.

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Speaker 4: But I just couldn't.

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Speaker 3: And so one day, one week I went into the office,

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Speaker 3: and on successive days I got rid of all three.

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Speaker 4: Of these troublemakers. And then things just changed.

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Speaker 3: I got people to I don't like drama at the office,

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Speaker 3: and I got people to work together in a collegial

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Speaker 3: way rather than the combative way.

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Speaker 4: I believe you get the most.

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Speaker 3: Out of the people by treating them with great respect

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Speaker 3: and allowing them their dignity, and so I within by

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Speaker 3: the end of that second year, you know, people were

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Speaker 3: saying please and thank you, and working together, being collegial

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Speaker 3: and having great respect for the other person's talents and abilities,

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Speaker 3: and that's the way it was for the next twenty

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Speaker 3: three years.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really amazing because when I recall seeing

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Speaker 1: as a young person Vanity Fair pre you, it seemed

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Speaker 1: like a very old magazine like that was because that

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Speaker 1: had been it had quite a history.

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Speaker 5: I don't know when it began as a magazin.

436
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 3: Started in nineteen thirteen, went to nineteen thirty six, and

437
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 3: was closed by Conye Nass who was a person not

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Speaker 3: too names jammed together right, and he closed it in

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirty six.

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Speaker 5: Kanye n asked was a person, was.

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Speaker 3: A person, and so it was very much for a

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Speaker 3: magazine for the smart set, as was The New Yorker,

443
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 3: and stayed too frivolous in the nineteen thirties, as you know,

444
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 3: as the rise of passion and Nazism in Europe and

445
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: folded in nineteen thirty six it was blended into Vogue Magazine.

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Speaker 4: Where's the New Yorker really.

447
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 3: Cut its teeth during World War Two with great reportage,

448
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: and that's what made the New Yorker. World War two

449
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: is when the New Yorker became what we think of

450
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 3: was the New Yorker and so yeah, so it had

451
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 3: it had it had an illustrious history, but it and

452
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 3: it was very much It was the biggest launch of the.

453
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 4: Last forty years.

454
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: And here I said it was a huge thing when

455
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 3: Side relaunched it.

456
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 5: It had such style, So you brought your sensibility to that.

457
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: And when did you start to understand you were shifting

458
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: actual culture?

459
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: Well I never quite felt that.

460
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 3: But the inside the magazine was a magazine of great journalism. That's,

461
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: you know, a great sort of narrative stories that would

462
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 3: run from ten to twenty thousand words. But the cover

463
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 3: is basically the wrapping. And unlike Vogue and GQ and

464
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: architectural didges say that have different editions in every country

465
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 3: in the world, there was one additional Vanity Fair that

466
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,479
Speaker 3: we produced here in New York and it went around

467
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 3: the world. So I had to come up with cover

468
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 3: ideas that appealed to a newsstand, possible newsstand buyers in

469
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: India and Australia and America and the sort of the

470
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: common currency of the global newsstand.

471
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 4: Then we're movie stars, so I wanted.

472
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 3: People to be on the cover who I thought would

473
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: have long shelf lives, so we would look smart and

474
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 3: having chosen.

475
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 4: Them, and.

476
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 3: Movie starts from part because first of all, they're much

477
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 3: better looking than we are. And so if you're going

478
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 3: to have it on a newstand and then on your

479
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: coffee table, much better to have somebody who's really nice

480
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 3: looking rather than somebody who's not so nice looking.

481
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: Sure, which is why I still have so many there

482
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: any care, you know. And I switched to was on

483
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: the car, like who sits on the top? I think

484
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: right now when I.

485
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: Left it was Brad Pitt and it was on that Well,

486
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 3: if you could get Brad Pitt and George Plooney and

487
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: Julia Roberts every single month, that would have.

488
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: Been and it was a success, you know, one of

489
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: the things that was happening at the time. And I

490
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: remember this, you know, And I remember when the Oscars

491
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: were in March, and I could remember Swifty Lazare, who

492
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: was like a massive agent in Los Angeles doing his dinner,

493
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: doing those parties at Spago, and now.

494
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 4: He invented the Oscar party.

495
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: He invented it. So Swifty dies in December. You're like,

496
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: what sort of clicks that you have not only four

497
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: months to do this, in about like three months to

498
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: do it in three and a half to say, okay,

499
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: this is we have to own this, and how did

500
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: you get to that?

501
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 4: Well, it wasn't It wasn't that curtain.

502
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: He invited me to what turned out to be his

503
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 3: last Oscar party, and since I didn't know many people,

504
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 3: I had a good chance to sort of see how

505
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: he did things. For the Swift he had an a

506
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: room and a b rooms. Spot was divided in two,

507
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: and he the A room was for like the Gregory

508
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: packs and the Jimmy stories and all the rest, But

509
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: then the b room was for people like me, And

510
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 3: I thought, okay, So if I and he parole, he

511
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 3: parromed around the perimeter and like made sure people were

512
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: sitting in their seats, they couldn't take bathroom breaks, and

513
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 3: he got you would scream at you if you were

514
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: talking too much.

515
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 4: So I thought, okay. When he dies in December, and

516
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 4: I thought we could do this. You know what I mean.

517
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 4: It's and but I had a number of rules.

518
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: First of all, I would I want only one room,

519
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 3: no a B delineation. And in those days big uh

520
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: uh dinners or parties, there was often an area off

521
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 3: on the side that was roped off with the velvet

522
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 3: rope where the VIP sat, and I thought, I'm not

523
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 3: having any of that.

524
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 4: Once you get in, everybody's the same. We'll probably make

525
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 4: it pretty difficult to get in.

526
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: But I wanted a a sort of democratic celebrity serengetti

527
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: once you got in, And so we did.

528
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 4: We we started. We did the first Oscar party.

529
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 3: And we did it at Morton's, not Morton's Steakhouse, but

530
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: Morton's restaurant in.

531
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 4: La which was then the sort of their power restaurant.

532
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 5: And like you said, Monday.

533
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 3: Nights, Monday night when the Oscars were on Monday, and

534
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: it was a single room, and so we did. We

535
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 3: started small because I thought we could really mess this

536
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: up and I didn't want a lot of witnesses.

537
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 4: To our our fiasco.

538
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: So but we had one hundred and fifty people for dinner,

539
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 3: and then about one hundred and fifty two hundred people

540
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 3: who came after the Oscars, and it was successful, and

541
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 3: so the next year got a little bigger, and it

542
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: got uh and and sort of more popular.

543
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 4: Then it became very difficult.

544
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 3: To limit the number of people coming because there's so

545
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 3: many people who wanted to come. But we would have

546
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: the fun of the the Beverly Hills Fire Marshal would

547
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: stand outside the door with a clicker, and once you

548
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 3: hit a certain number of people inside, he would stop

549
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: the entries. So you had to we had to tear

550
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 3: people at what time they came, hoping that the earlier

551
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 3: people would have by that time left. And then we

552
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 3: had a if you had an oscar, we had a

553
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 3: sort of speed lane in an H O V lane

554
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: And so the oscar got you an immediate that there's

555
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: a there's a party planner here in New York called

556
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: Bronze and van Wick.

557
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 4: And he said.

558
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: He he told me much later that he went he

559
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 3: bought he bought an oscar at a pawn shop in

560
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 3: the valley and just use it a whisk right in.

561
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 4: That that speed when I was very respectful of him

562
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: for that.

563
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 5: I mean, you liked.

564
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: One of the things about you is like you like mischief.

565
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: I do like this, you like Misschi and in that

566
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: party like that. If you're clever like that, I'm fine

567
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: with that.

568
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: I mean I'm not fine with like Harvey Weinstein showing

569
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: up with like seven Ladies.

570
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: Of the Night, you know, and was treating your staff

571
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: and mistreating Sarah staff badly. You never come back, right, Well,

572
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: that's the hospitality gene that I can share. Yeah, that's

573
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, no no. So Harvey Harvey was

574
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: lucky to last as long as he did. So he

575
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: finally it's America, big boot.

576
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: It is.

577
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 5: Mm hmm. You also talk you have.

578
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: There's a funny story about Courtney Love who mistreated Sarah

579
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: Mark who figured out because you know you kicked her out.

580
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: I didn't kick her out, You didn't, she wanted, she

581
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 3: said during the party, and she said, great, you gotta

582
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 3: let my manager in. Her managers a very famous guy

583
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: in Hollywood. Now, but I won't say his name.

584
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 4: She said.

585
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 6: He's got my keys, he's got my walle and he's

586
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 6: got my drugs. He said, Look, I just can't deal

587
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 6: with this right now. There's Sarah Marks over there. Want

588
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 6: to Glasger I knew what the end explained to everyone listening.

589
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 6: Sarah markin She's a fucking gene. Okay, she was the

590
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 6: She was that my the person who ram the Oscar

591
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 6: party of the buildout of whatever we had to do.

592
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 6: She worked with my architect, Basal Walter. She brought in

593
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 6: the rolling stones, lighting manager path, the woodrup to do

594
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 6: the lighting because movie starts like good lightings, and so

595
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 6: she she sort of basically was the employee in charge

596
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 6: of the team in charge of the Oscar party.

597
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 4: So and Sarah's she's a much tougher not than I am.

598
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean I was scared of her for so many years.

599
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: I have fallen in love with her. You know, I

600
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: just saw her recently and I can't get up for years.

601
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 4: No, no, no, she terrified me. People would people would ask me.

602
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: My kids found it really funny when people would come

603
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: up to me and ask me if I had any

604
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 3: any poll with her. And so I said, go talk

605
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: to Sarah Marxu. I knew what Sarah's gonna say. She's

606
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 3: gonna say no then, So it was according to she does.

607
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: I see her go out, and she goes out where

608
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 3: all the banks and photographers from all over the world

609
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: were and film cameras and we broadcast the arrivals inside

610
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 3: the room where the tele and sad word when the

611
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: oscars were on.

612
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 4: So she goes down there.

613
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 3: She says, I've got an important announcement to make, so

614
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 3: all the cameras turn on her.

615
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 4: She's that's Courtney Loves. She's standing there. You can see it.

616
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: Everybody inside the room can hear and see this. And

617
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: she said, I've got an important announcement to make. I

618
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: just want to say one thing that Sarah Mars is

619
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: a cunt.

620
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 4: My lord.

621
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,479
Speaker 3: I mean, I felt so badly for Sarah, but it's

622
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: sort of immortalized her a bit. And she and I

623
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: thought a great use of technology on Courtney's part. And

624
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: then I think when Minority Report came out, Sarah must

625
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 3: have turned away a screenwride at one point because one

626
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: of the villains and Minority Report was called Sarah Marx.

627
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 5: That's yeah. Well, it's a tough, tough job. And one

628
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 5: of the other tough jobs.

629
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: And one of the interesting things that you did was

630
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: placement at tables like a wedding, and it's a very

631
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: difficult job.

632
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 5: So and you also talk.

633
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: About always throwing in that one person that's sort of

634
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, the special person.

635
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, the oscars are a long haul,

636
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 3: so it's four hours at a dinner table with other people.

637
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 4: So I tried to make a save.

638
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: We had one hundred and twenty people for dinner and

639
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: try to make twelve tables of ten and make each

640
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: table convivial dinner party then, so you would group people

641
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: together and often throw in a sort of wild card

642
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: that would be sort of help things move along. And

643
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: so yeah, and by large, by you know, by large,

644
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 3: we got it right. Occasionally we got it wrong. And

645
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 3: I tried to always separate people who had maybe had

646
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: affairs before and tried, or people who had turned down

647
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 3: somebody else's movie.

648
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 4: There was a real there.

649
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: It was an inexact science, but as science done the

650
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: last that we ninety five percent of the time we

651
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: got it really right of five percent, and now we got.

652
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 4: It really wrong. But then it's funny. And then also

653
00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 4: you have these different roles.

654
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: In in New York, husbands and wives sit at the

655
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: same table, but not together. In Los Angeles, husbands and

656
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: wives sit at the same table beside each other. In Europe,

657
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 3: husbands and wives sit at different tables. So it's just

658
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: knowing this are the rules of the road. And when

659
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 3: we spent a lot of time on scene, we called

660
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 3: them seating meetings, and it would be about a half

661
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: dozen or a dozen of us.

662
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 4: Frankly woulds often.

663
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 3: Be there and she would try to kept saying, frank,

664
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: you're an observer to this.

665
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 4: You're not a participant.

666
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 7: She because she had opinions about everybody, and she would

667
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 7: have she.

668
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 4: Would have had like three people.

669
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: She had her way, so like if somebody pulled out,

670
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: that can completely change the way.

671
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 3: Well, we were very careful, so we would we once

672
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: you accepted, we would follow up the week before, three

673
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 3: days before, the day before, and a few hours before.

674
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: So we wanted to so that there was only thank

675
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 3: you very much. Only a very few occasions did anybody

676
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: hansel and one time they one. I remember one time

677
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 3: we had an opening end. It was where Michael Mann

678
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: and his his wife were gonna sit. And I talked

679
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: to Sarah next day he said what happened to them?

680
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 4: He said, Well, I really admired him for saying this.

681
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: He said that he and his wife got into a

682
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 3: fight on the way there and they just turned around

683
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: and went home. I just so admired his honesty that

684
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: we invited them back the next.

685
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: Year, because right that that is a deal breaker if

686
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: you are like a show.

687
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 4: If you don't want an empty seat beside.

688
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: But we but then I would stick a convivial.

689
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 4: Staff memory the.

690
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us for Table for two. Before the break,

691
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: Graydon Carter was telling us about his time as editor

692
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: in chief at Vanity Fair and of course the Vanity

693
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: Fair Oscar Party.

694
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 5: It was a time of transformation for the magazine.

695
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: And I'm curious what Graydon thinks of his legacy there.

696
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: You created something that you know that really lasted for many,

697
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: many years.

698
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 5: Obviously, what from your perspective.

699
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: What did you what did you value that you were like,

700
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity to create.

701
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, the ninety in the early nineties

702
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 3: when we did started this Grange was very much the fashion. Right,

703
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 3: the oscars were very much out of paper. They were

704
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 3: considered really square, and people shunned them. And Grove so

705
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: and I thought, I loved I loved movies when I

706
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: was growing up.

707
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 4: I love older movies especially.

708
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 3: And I thought, maybe it takes people from the East

709
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: to tell Hollywood their story that this is the glimer

710
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: was one of their huge trading currencies.

711
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: And so I.

712
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 3: Thought, if we did it lam mostly the guests would

713
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 3: appreciate that and come up to the game. And so.

714
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 4: We had a lot of old Hollywood in the first

715
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: All right, you've always loved.

716
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: Loved old Hollywood, Right, We had Billy Wilders and people

717
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 3: like that.

718
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 4: So, but it after a while.

719
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 3: Then it helped I think it helped and they and

720
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: then the as the Hollywood Issue we did, I think

721
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 3: it helped make the the Oscars cool again.

722
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 5: Oh my god, next level, hool you made the Oscar

723
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 5: so cool.

724
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,479
Speaker 1: So the Hollywood Issue that Greaton is talking about, which

725
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: also was a showstopper. You've done a couple of massive

726
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: things I think with when you're with your reign at

727
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair, and one was the Hollywood Issue where you

728
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: have a trifle, and you were showing of male or

729
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: female you know who who are the up and coming,

730
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: who are the stars? And as you go in detail

731
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: about Annie Lieberwitz and her extraordinary talent and the positioning,

732
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, what was that like and what did that

733
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: What was the competition to get on that cover because

734
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: I know there was certainly an issue with being on

735
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: the front versus the middle or versus the third page

736
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: to fold out because and I think you really elevated

737
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: people's careers at the same time, like it was like

738
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 1: one of those pretty good.

739
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 3: At picking also, I mean, so when we first did

740
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: the Hollywood Issue with side new houses, I do after

741
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: we did after the party was success. The first one

742
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 3: was say a good boss to see like the greatest

743
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 3: loss one could ever Jimmilate come out, you know.

744
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 4: I I ador size.

745
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 3: It was like my second father and so we were

746
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 3: having lunch one day and he said, have you ever

747
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 3: thought of doing a special issue on Hollywood? And I

748
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: said no, And I actually I didn't like special issues

749
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 3: because I felt people come to a magazine for the

750
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 3: variety of stories. And he brought it up again. And

751
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 3: then one night I was sitting in the kitchen after

752
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 3: my kids were gone asleep, and I was at any manuscripts,

753
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 3: and I thought, wait, I think I could put together

754
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: a Hollywood. Sure they would have a business story that

755
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 3: would have an old story about an old Hollywood.

756
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 4: I think I could do some of.

757
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 3: It, with a conflict story and so, and maybe a

758
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 3: house story. So I went the next time I had lunches,

759
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, let's do this. And so I but

760
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 3: I thought at that time it was like nineteen ninety

761
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: four or something. Now that I that there wasn't a

762
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: single actor or actress who was strong enough to carry

763
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 3: over this, carry this into you her concept. So I said,

764
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 3: let's do a three panel covered I don't know what

765
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 3: it's ever been done. Before, but I loved big group

766
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 3: shots and photographs, so we did. We thought a three

767
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 3: panel cover that folded out and then we would take

768
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: a billboard on sunset and so that over the years

769
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: of mutual friend of ours, Jane Sarkin, if she was

770
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 3: the one who organized the covers. We'd go through the

771
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 3: list of the candidates and then it was her job

772
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: who placed them on the first panel, second panel.

773
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 4: Well, I would work with her, but she was.

774
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 3: The one who negotiated with their agents and managers because

775
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: obviously the first panel of people are happier than the

776
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: second panel of people, and the second title people are

777
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 3: happier than the third of people, but the third panel

778
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 3: people are happier people.

779
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 5: That didn't have anything so on the non existent fourth bound.

780
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,959
Speaker 3: But when they when they By the time anybody showed

781
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 3: up to Annie's shoe, all the negotiators had been.

782
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 4: Worked out, there was no surprises for anybody.

783
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 5: Never.

784
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 4: There was never a situation did.

785
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 5: Anyone walk for not being on the first time.

786
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 3: Never, because they knew exactly where they were going to

787
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 3: be before they got there.

788
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 4: We made sure that.

789
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: You've mentioned a lot family and one of the things

790
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: that comes across and I've actually seen in real life.

791
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: And your children are amazingly gracious, smart.

792
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 5: To earth human beings.

793
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: And that's a true testament to you and their mother

794
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: and mother. And and you did you do something that

795
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: I thought was so true.

796
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 5: I never thought about this grade And like when you would.

797
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: Go out to dinner having the young children sit in

798
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: a table, having your kids sit at a table in

799
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: the same way as supposed to leaving them home with

800
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: the babysitters. So you're gonna sit, which is teaching them

801
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: social interaction. Your your commitment to your family is a

802
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: wonderful thing. So talk was when what was it so

803
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: you were able to figure where most people of your

804
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: success chose one over the other, they were not able

805
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: to and usually the family sufferer.

806
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 5: How did you, especially the children? How did you? Was

807
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 5: that something you grew up with? And I guess I'm

808
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 5: so impressed with it.

809
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: And I mean, I will I and my family we

810
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 3: had a dinner together every night. And I thought I'd

811
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 3: actually strange enough, despite the job and whatever people's image

812
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 3: of me is, I was home most days at five

813
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 3: point thirty and I had dinner with my kids and

814
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: then I would work afterwards.

815
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 4: And it was I didn't go out that much. I

816
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 4: went out when I had to go out and like

817
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 4: the Oscar party or something like that, but I so

818
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: we used to.

819
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had a restaurant was Dos Silvano on sixth

820
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 3: Avenue near here, and my wife and I were.

821
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 4: Having dinner with another couple.

822
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 3: I booked the table right beside us, and my four

823
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 3: kids would go there and they couldn't bring a book,

824
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 3: they couldn't bring a toy, they couldn't bring any there's

825
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: a pre video everything, and so we just have to

826
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: sit there at first, and they didn't quite know what

827
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: to do at first, and then they started talking, and

828
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 3: they started talking a lot more and over the years,

829
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: then they had their own dinner party right beside ours,

830
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: and they're staggeringly close as all I've fought kids now

831
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: and they and.

832
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 4: I think it started at that table at Dos Silvana.

833
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: I just think it was it's a brilliant, not only

834
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: a brilliant idea, but such a testament again who you

835
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: are and what you value, and it's it just blew

836
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: me away.

837
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 4: And it made me.

838
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: Also think of just how I've raised Brian and I

839
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: have raised our daughter and our and and being a

840
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: step parent and now having grand It's the importance of because,

841
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: as people say, when you look back on your life

842
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: at that moment.

843
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 5: You're not going to think, no, did I not get

844
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 5: that person on the county?

845
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 3: So I have the loving around my kids. I mean,

846
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: I'm sure as you do. And then it's it's really fun.

847
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 3: And so there was a certain selfishness to it. And

848
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 3: yes that they were a good company and the more

849
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 3: you invest in them, the better company they are. Yeah,

850
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 3: so you know I was, I was. I divided my

851
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: life very equally between the job. I never thought of

852
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 3: it as a career. I just thought of it. This

853
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 3: is a great job, and I'm really lucky to have it,

854
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 3: and it pays for my family to you know, I

855
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: have a house in the country and you know, nice

856
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 3: car and so. But I after five point thirty, I

857
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 3: almost never discussed work at home when I was having

858
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: dinner with my wife and kids, unless it was something

859
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 3: really funny or really interesting. But never come home, and

860
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 3: never came home and complained about anything.

861
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: Ever, And I had a million complaints every day.

862
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 5: Let me tell you that is hystorical.

863
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: And your wife, Anna, who's so lovely, and you guys

864
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: have welcomed us so many times.

865
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 5: Are you comfortable at this moment?

866
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: You've written this incredible memoir And I really can't speak

867
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: highly of it enough. I really enjoyed it. And I

868
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: am a not a great reader. I mean, Barry Diller

869
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: used to laugh at me.

870
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 5: It took me.

871
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: Maybe a year and a half to read The Kite Runner,

872
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: and finally he flew it. He flung it off his boat.

873
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: He was like, I'm like, I'm on chapter eight. I mean,

874
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: I'm a slow reader, I'm and I just was like, wow,

875
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: are you happy with what's happening now in your life

876
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: in regard to the book? And are you comfortable sitting

877
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: in the seat you're sitting in where normally you were.

878
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 4: On the other side of the well. I'm a terrible

879
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 4: interview I'm a terrible journalist.

880
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: I mean, but I no, I've never this is one

881
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 3: of the happiest experiences in my life.

882
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 4: I am.

883
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 3: I had no idea how much work it was to

884
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: do this, and I'm thrilled it's going on the New

885
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: York Times bestseller list.

886
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 5: That to me is like, wow, I didn't realize that. Congratulations.

887
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, but a week from now and so and so

888
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 3: that makes me that was maybe just so incredibly happy

889
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: and and I love there's a lot of young people

890
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 3: who read the book because I think it's quite aspirational,

891
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: because if I know, nothing like me can have a nice,

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00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: successful life in New York, anybody can do it, any

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00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 3: old idiot.

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Speaker 4: Great.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for joining me today.

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Speaker 1: This has been a huge honor for me and me

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00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: too and doing the podcast.

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00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 5: With George, Julia Roberts, Mike So if.

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Speaker 1: You're listening, please when the going was good and editors

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00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: adventures during the last golden age of magazines, it's amazing.

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00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 5: Congratulations, Thank you for pulling up for share.

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00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: I love our lunches and never forget the romance of

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00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: a meal. If you enjoy the show, please tell a

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00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 1: friend and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Table

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00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: for Two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio seven

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00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce

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00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: Bosi and Nathan King. Our supervising producer is Dylan Fagan.

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00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: Our editors are Vincent to Johnny and Cas b Bias.

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00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: Table for two is researched and written by Jack Sullivan.

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00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: Our sound engineers are Meil B. Klein, Jess Krainich, and

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00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: Jesse funk Our music supervisor is Randall. Poster Our talent

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00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: booking is done by Jane Sarkin.

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Speaker 5: Table for two's social media manager is Gracie Wiener. Special

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Speaker 5: thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Scherer.

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00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: Kevin Vane, Bobby Bauer, Alison Kanter Graber. For more podcasts

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00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.