Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get
Speaker 1: into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving
Speaker 1: connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really
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Speaker 1: Now time for the episode. On theme is a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media. Hey, y'all, welcome
Speaker 1: to our channel.
Speaker 2: I'm Katie and I'm Eves, and you're tuned into Friends.
Speaker 1: With FROs, a channel where we show you how to
Speaker 1: pretty fi your puff.
Speaker 2: How to let your silk press sing and big.
Speaker 1: Chop Bellow, how to help your braids go from busted to.
Speaker 2: And how to let your kitchen cook because naps are
Speaker 2: what Eves natural.
Speaker 1: We'll make sure your hair is looking right so you
Speaker 1: can keep fighting the good fight.
Speaker 2: That's right. This channel is all about pro black hair hair.
Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into today's tutorial.
Speaker 2: Today's episode wash day Woes.
Speaker 1: Early in my high school years, I stopped getting perms,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't really a principal thing. They just didn't
Speaker 1: work for me. They burned no matter what I did.
Speaker 1: I hated the process and upkeep, and I wasn't the
Speaker 1: biggest fan of how I looked with my straight hair anyway.
Speaker 1: And my mother didn't get relaxers, so I saw what
Speaker 1: it was like to live without, so I decided to
Speaker 1: let my hair grow out without getting touchups.
Speaker 2: I do remember when you went natural, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: It was a rough period, but so freeing that I
Speaker 1: didn't have to deal with the creamy crack anymore. So
Speaker 1: I committed to growing it all out, got made fun
Speaker 1: of here and there, and eventually had a head free
Speaker 1: of relaxer chemicals.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I went natural a couple years later than you when
Speaker 2: I was in college, I think my sophomore year or
Speaker 2: right after my sophomore year. But you're definitely like one
Speaker 2: of the people I look to. I was like, well, East,
Speaker 2: what natural? So I can too?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. But for me, throughout that whole transition, I
Speaker 1: never would have made it. Q Marvin sapp if it
Speaker 1: weren't for the natural hair YouTube girlies.
Speaker 2: They have given so many people free game.
Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am, and I was one of them. Now, they
Speaker 1: weren't super popping on YouTube around the time that I
Speaker 1: started my process. At first, I was reading articles on
Speaker 1: old hair blogs with tiny pictures, scrolling through the comments
Speaker 1: section looking for folks who could co sign or condemn
Speaker 1: the tips given by the author, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what the hell and loc method is. The
Speaker 1: struggle was real, but baby, when folks started putting hair
Speaker 1: tutorials up on YouTube, it was a game changer. And now,
Speaker 1: years after the phenomenon first blew up, we have been
Speaker 1: blessed with so much information, so much value, and look,
Speaker 1: a lot of it is wrong, girl, But to be honest,
Speaker 1: all the misinformation is one of my favorite parts about
Speaker 1: the whole genre.
Speaker 2: Now you're gonna explain that a little bit.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, hear me out first, the misinformation begets reality
Speaker 1: TV worthy drama. People have called out YouTubers on how
Speaker 1: their advice is just flat out wrong. Sometimes the trends
Speaker 1: don't be having no basis. In fact, it's just all
Speaker 1: vibes and that's entertainment, yes. But second, and less messy
Speaker 1: than that point is that we all end up learning together,
Speaker 1: Like figuring out how to care for your individual hair
Speaker 1: is a whole process and we have to experiment anyway,
Speaker 1: So we're making mistakes and updating our knowledge when we
Speaker 1: learn from it collectively. And third, the misinformation is indicative
Speaker 1: of the whole genre. Starting as an each one tach
Speaker 1: one project, it was black folks showing other black folks
Speaker 1: how to do their hair, and the educators were on
Speaker 1: a wide spectrum of experience and professional status, So of
Speaker 1: course some debris came in with a tide. If you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I'm catching your drift. That makes sense. Folks from all
Speaker 2: backgrounds definitely felt empowered to share whatever ounce of knowledge
Speaker 2: they had and a lot of folks have benefited from that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And since the birth of the genre, its creators
Speaker 1: have gone through a lot having to figure out how
Speaker 1: many more ways they can spin a twisted updo for content,
Speaker 1: upgrading their filming equipment and setup.
Speaker 2: Ooh, figuring out how to show what they're actually doing
Speaker 2: in the tutorial.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, child, I'm saying, detailing washday routines, peddling
Speaker 1: weed for foreign companies, arguing about the merits of hair types,
Speaker 1: hair porosity, washing, weekly oil usage, prepoods, protein treatments, you
Speaker 1: name it.
Speaker 2: They have the whole storytelling genre from the ground up.
Speaker 1: Exactly what I'm saying point number one. Think about the
Speaker 1: way is that hair YouTubers format their videos to be
Speaker 1: able to educate us best. The ways that they narrate,
Speaker 1: the intros they use I got beef with those but alas,
Speaker 1: the obligatory slow mode three sixty and glamour shots at
Speaker 1: the end of the video all hallmarks of the genre
Speaker 1: that creators built and solidified over time. Our nervous systems
Speaker 1: know what to expect when tuning in to a hair
Speaker 1: video at this point.
Speaker 2: It's given formulaic, it's giving Shakespearean play, it's giving aque
Speaker 2: Act two, Act three, it's giving climax, it's giving falling action.
Speaker 1: All of the things. They created a set of standards
Speaker 1: and practices that they use for their brand of visual storytelling.
Speaker 1: We're used to our parents and aunties and family friends
Speaker 1: showing us how to do hair, but filming it staying
Speaker 1: engaging but not belaboring points, learning what to cut and
Speaker 1: what to keep, working with technology and figuring out how
Speaker 1: to get people to see it all. In the end,
Speaker 1: they have put in work to create quality content that
Speaker 1: actually feeds the people and looks good, and.
Speaker 2: They've honed the craft in such a short period of
Speaker 2: time formula is tight as car rolls after a fresh.
Speaker 1: Install, crispy as greased parts.
Speaker 2: So what's your next point?
Speaker 1: This one's related to the artistry of it all too.
Speaker 1: It's that hair YouTubers are all the archetypes that we
Speaker 1: see in our favorite stories. They're unreliable narrators. Like I
Speaker 1: said earlier, they don't always know what they're talking about,
Speaker 1: and something they say that works for them will absolutely
Speaker 1: not work for everybody.
Speaker 2: They're also unsung heroes. They've saved me once or dice.
Speaker 2: Let's be real a million times when I couldn't think
Speaker 2: of a style to put on my head.
Speaker 1: Yep, And they're villains. Let a non perm YouTuber get
Speaker 1: a relaxer and watch the people turn on her with
Speaker 1: a quickness.
Speaker 2: In the comments, cussing name Colin.
Speaker 1: They inhabit the roles of celebrities as they gain audience
Speaker 1: and visibility, struggling artists when they're learning hair techniques, mentors
Speaker 1: as they teach us new hairstyles and hair care methods
Speaker 1: and introduce us to new products. And when someone's doing
Speaker 1: their thing on YouTube for a while, it can be
Speaker 1: a whole coming of age story. You get to see
Speaker 1: how they and their hair grow and evolve, we see
Speaker 1: their channel grow, we see them get married or have kids,
Speaker 1: and we see them decide to stop sharing on YouTube,
Speaker 1: or we see them come out with their own product lines,
Speaker 1: like Layla Washington of the YouTube channel Fusion of Cultures,
Speaker 1: who started a skincare company called Wilsea Botanicals.
Speaker 2: All that main character and energy.
Speaker 1: Yep, and that leads me to my next point. The
Speaker 1: genre and as creators carry some weight. They have a
Speaker 1: big presence on YouTube. They created a community that's been
Speaker 1: thriving for more than a decade now. Their followers are
Speaker 1: super engaged, partly due to the fact that YouTubers are
Speaker 1: charismatic and beautiful and personable and doing things that are
Speaker 1: aspirational for lots of people, but also because of the
Speaker 1: nature of the beast. We're interacting with the content in
Speaker 1: the most authentic way, taking the creator's advice and tips
Speaker 1: and using them on our own or on others' bodies,
Speaker 1: and we might be watching their videos over and over again,
Speaker 1: rewinding and replaying.
Speaker 2: They've had a definite impact on creator culture on YouTube.
Speaker 2: A lot of hair YouTubers like Whitney White, also known
Speaker 2: as Natural eighty five, are ogs in the YouTube content
Speaker 2: creation lane.
Speaker 1: They became more than just people who knew how to
Speaker 1: do hair. They were bloggers, influencers, entrepreneurs. They started getting
Speaker 1: paid the big bugs, by sponsors and YouTube itself. Once
Speaker 1: they started doing numbers, their recommendations bought or not drove
Speaker 1: many of their adherents to purchase items that they wouldn't
Speaker 1: even think about needing had their favorite YouTuber not used
Speaker 1: it in their latest upload.
Speaker 2: Girl and some of those products collected dust. Popularity came
Speaker 2: and went, some just fell out of favor, and some
Speaker 2: just weren't great to begin with.
Speaker 1: True, but we can't deny how these YouTubers filled a
Speaker 1: gap that was growing as more Black people embraced their
Speaker 1: natural hair journeys and sought a vice from bloggers. Not
Speaker 1: that we weren't embracing it before.
Speaker 2: See Black as Beautiful and the glorious froze of the
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies.
Speaker 1: For sure, It's just that the phrase slash concept of
Speaker 1: a natural hair journey was gaining steam as a measurable
Speaker 1: phenomenon in the early oughts. And speaking of airs and hair,
Speaker 1: this takes me into the next point, which is this
Speaker 1: one's pretty simple. Hair YouTubers are documentarians. They document changes
Speaker 1: in style over time. I can look back at videos
Speaker 1: from past years and see when Senegalese twists, Voho braids
Speaker 1: are band two knots were really popping. Through their videos,
Speaker 1: we get a timeline of black hair trends.
Speaker 2: And sometimes the YouTubers are the ones setting those trends.
Speaker 1: And amplifying them by sharing them and spreading them to
Speaker 1: wider audiences. So my next point is the last. But
Speaker 1: who would we be if we didn't make you wait
Speaker 1: to get it till after the break.
Speaker 2: We're ready for you.
Speaker 1: Last point, all right, this is my favorite one. That's
Speaker 1: why I saved it for last, is that as a whole,
Speaker 1: black YouTubers have used the art the storytelling to help
Speaker 1: us consider our relationship to our hair and how it evolves.
Speaker 1: They've made us think about how we best love on
Speaker 1: our hair, consider the reasons we want to reject perms
Speaker 1: and embrace the kinks or not. They've made us question
Speaker 1: our hair care practices and pay more attention to what
Speaker 1: we're doing to our hair and why. They've encouraged us
Speaker 1: to consider what brands we support, where we direct our money.
Speaker 1: They've given us direction when we needed it most and
Speaker 1: they've spurred innovation in the hair care industry. They have
Speaker 1: helped us think more critically and act more intentionally around
Speaker 1: black hair.
Speaker 2: And that's what the best storytellers do. Make you think
Speaker 2: more critically right and actually spur action in the real world.
Speaker 2: I know, seeing the girls with the big afros, you know,
Speaker 2: hair goals, hair goals, and now I can look and
Speaker 2: see myself with a big aufro. I'm like, dang, I'm
Speaker 2: really my own hair goals.
Speaker 1: Did you see yourself like this in the future when
Speaker 1: you first started watching them?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I wanted my hair to be long as
Speaker 2: it is, Like I wanted to be long month too,
Speaker 2: Like what's going on here? I think at first when
Speaker 2: you start looking at these YouTubers, you're really impatient. But
Speaker 2: now like on once your hair is like at the
Speaker 2: length where you're like, okay, I can like do these
Speaker 2: styles that I want to do. You're kind of like
Speaker 2: more relaxed about it, you know, but also like happy
Speaker 2: to see other people really experimenting with their hair. I
Speaker 2: don't experiment with my hair that much anymore, but being
Speaker 2: able to see how people like tell stories with their hair,
Speaker 2: Like there's that one girl who like does sculptures with
Speaker 2: her locks. You know that. Yeah, I've seen her, Like
Speaker 2: there's so many cool ways to do it. But then
Speaker 2: also just like living your life with your natural hair.
Speaker 2: It's like that's also like a story that we're telling
Speaker 2: is like a collective, right, because I think when like
Speaker 2: our parents was raising us and putting it on in
Speaker 2: perms in our hair, like that was like a different
Speaker 2: mindset that people were having. Absolutely, and so now like
Speaker 2: you don't really see little kids with perms like that.
Speaker 1: And I was singing the just for Me themes on
Speaker 1: the other day. Yeah, like that's how ingrained it was.
Speaker 2: They were it. You're like, dang, I want to look
Speaker 2: like her.
Speaker 1: When that yes, it poked out to the side, it hurt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like so to see that shift collectively is
Speaker 2: really interesting. And I liked what you said about these
Speaker 2: YouTubers being documentarians because I remember when the Lemonade raids
Speaker 2: was it, you know, like be yes, they had the
Speaker 2: girls shook when that hair, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So like being able to see those different iterations because
Speaker 2: you know, like YouTube's been around for a minute now,
Speaker 2: so it's it's really like a great archive of like
Speaker 2: what everyone was doing with their hair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm not the fondest of this phrase, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to use it now anyway because I think
Speaker 1: it's fitting. They are kind of thought leaders in a
Speaker 1: way when it comes to hair. Because when you just
Speaker 1: said something about you wanted your hair to be really long,
Speaker 1: that made me think about how much we prioritize length.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that did have to
Speaker 1: do with the way that YouTubers were sharing. Like I know,
Speaker 1: a lot of that is also society things that are
Speaker 1: deeply ingrained in US, but I think there were so
Speaker 1: many like videos about length checks on YouTube. It's like okay,
Speaker 1: Liane check and the best way to do your line.
Speaker 2: Check white t shirt. Yeah, wear the same shirt every time.
Speaker 1: And different tips for being able to get your hair longer,
Speaker 1: like when that chebe thing got really big, like putting
Speaker 1: mud on your hair was something to You're looking at
Speaker 1: me like you have no idea what it is. Girl,
Speaker 1: that's how deep it goes.
Speaker 2: Please skip me.
Speaker 1: And I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right,
Speaker 1: but it's just there have been so many things to
Speaker 1: help you with hair length, and so many YouTubers talking
Speaker 1: about how your hair is growing, it's about length retention,
Speaker 1: and this is how you keep it. Make sure you trimp.
Speaker 1: After that, it felt like there was a swing back
Speaker 1: toward your hair is great at any length, and I'm
Speaker 1: looking for people with TWA's who can do this. Are
Speaker 1: I feel like when I go to YouTube that I
Speaker 1: can't find people. I always see people who are doing
Speaker 1: styles that don't relate to me because I have four
Speaker 1: sea hair or something like that. So it's interesting to
Speaker 1: see how the thoughts that leaders on YouTube when it
Speaker 1: comes to hair start to resonate and ripple throughout black folks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of like the I can't find someone with
Speaker 2: four sea hair conversation, one, I think with hair YouTube,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of like cliches and like tropes,
Speaker 2: Like you said, like your hair is growing, it's about retention,
Speaker 2: like people saying like the same thing over and over again.
Speaker 2: But then also I think, just like I think one
Speaker 2: of the major tennants maybe this was like a twenty
Speaker 2: tens YouTuber thing, and it's indicative of like larger issues
Speaker 2: in like black storytelling is like the racially ambiguous or
Speaker 2: like biracial person who just like has long, curly hair,
Speaker 2: not because of the routine they're doing just because like girl,
Speaker 2: you're mixed with white and your hair is gonna curl
Speaker 2: that certain way or elevated. But you see it perpetuating
Speaker 2: these like different ways of storytelling that you wouldn't think
Speaker 2: would seep into like someone's bathroom or bedroom, but the
Speaker 2: way that the audience reacts to them is very similar.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: I think that reflects the way that it's changed over time,
Speaker 1: because there was an era, and you'll see in some
Speaker 1: of these people's videos that we mentioned in today's episode,
Speaker 1: like for a Natural eighty five who has a My
Speaker 1: Natural Haircare Journey video from like two thousand or nine
Speaker 1: years ago, so from a while ago where it was
Speaker 1: just her showing pictures of herself. There is no narration happening,
Speaker 1: there is her showing a tutorial, There is no edit
Speaker 1: of an intro in the beginning, music only played in
Speaker 1: specific spots. All of the things that come with videos
Speaker 1: that people make on hair YouTube today and over time
Speaker 1: that morphed into Okay, I understand, I'm a personality and
Speaker 1: people need to come to my page. Okay, I get
Speaker 1: subscribers and this is how I do it. Okay, YouTube's
Speaker 1: algorithm is changing. I feel like I can say with
Speaker 1: confidence that back then it wasn't as much about getting
Speaker 1: more people to see. They cared about sharing, of course
Speaker 1: that's why they posted it, but it wasn't so prioritized
Speaker 1: to gain more followers or gain more engagement. And also
Speaker 1: all of the hate that came with it afterwards. You know,
Speaker 1: they had to combat about against that over time too.
Speaker 1: So it's more I guess, freedom to be able to
Speaker 1: put up what you want, how you want, versus there's
Speaker 1: more thinking now around. Okay, I can't say this, I
Speaker 1: can't be this real. I can only be a little
Speaker 1: bit real. I have to be this authentic with the
Speaker 1: capital a that everybody use about people on social media
Speaker 1: these days, so people understand it as more of a
Speaker 1: storytelling platform now that is meant to be constructed, and
Speaker 1: that's why all of these expectations like you mentioned have entered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Internet has just changed since they first started, Right,
Speaker 2: Like people weren't personalities, people weren't getting so much money
Speaker 2: for like posting themselves doing their hair. But like once
Speaker 2: you know, all these sponsorships get involved, once you realize
Speaker 2: people can look at the view out your window and
Speaker 2: see what city you live in and you've said your
Speaker 2: last name a few too many times that they can
Speaker 2: pull up on you, like it really changes the dynamic
Speaker 2: of how you can share, even if it is about
Speaker 2: something like hair. It's also, I think, like a small
Speaker 2: microcus of just like how the Internet has changed and
Speaker 2: how we've changed along with the Internet.
Speaker 1: And there are videos now that people are posting about
Speaker 1: how hair YouTubers are struggling. So I just feel like
Speaker 1: now is a good time to think about this because
Speaker 1: I know they're still going you know, of course, they're
Speaker 1: still making videos about hair on YouTube, like their channels
Speaker 1: are still popping. I'm not saying that they're not, but
Speaker 1: it definitely is a different landscape now. But there are
Speaker 1: people who are posting videos saying content creators in the
Speaker 1: hairspace on YouTube are struggling, like it's harder for them
Speaker 1: to gain more views. People who should have bigger platforms
Speaker 1: haven't been able to get bigger platforms even though they've
Speaker 1: been working for a decade or even longer. And I
Speaker 1: just think it is fascinating and very admirable to see
Speaker 1: how something seemingly started from some such a noble place
Speaker 1: like sharing how to do hair and techniques for doing
Speaker 1: hair is such a familial and warm and intimate thing.
Speaker 1: I have so many, like fun and rich memories of
Speaker 1: getting my hair done as a child and struggling to
Speaker 1: learn podocormra, which I still don't know how to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I say no, I don't. I wish I did. I
Speaker 1: didn't learn how to break though, and that was you know,
Speaker 1: that was a struggle too. But I have so many
Speaker 1: good memories of that, And I think that people started
Speaker 1: wanting to as a genre, share this experience and this
Speaker 1: knowledge with other people. Is like exploding this culture that
Speaker 1: already existed. But it still feels personal. So we went
Speaker 1: straight to the source. We spoke with LaToya Eboni, who's
Speaker 1: been making haircare videos on YouTube since twenty ten.
Speaker 3: My name is LaToya Eboni. I am an online content creator,
Speaker 3: a professional actress as well as an organic skincare formulator
Speaker 3: soon to be hair care formulator.
Speaker 1: Can you take us back to when you first decided
Speaker 1: to start a YouTube channel? What were you feeling, What
Speaker 1: were some of the ideas that were going through your mind,
Speaker 1: What was the support and maybe lack of support that
Speaker 1: was happening. Can you just take us through what that
Speaker 1: time was like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was in grad school studying acting and teaching.
Speaker 3: And I remember one day I was in class and
Speaker 3: I just kind of looked around and some of my
Speaker 3: female like counterparts would just show up to class with
Speaker 3: their hair like still wet, you know, slapped it back
Speaker 3: in a ponytail. Meanwhile, I had, like, not only was
Speaker 3: I doing prep for, you know, the work at hand,
Speaker 3: but I'm like making sure my hair is in a
Speaker 3: ball and all the things. Like I'm putting so much
Speaker 3: effort into how I show up. And I remember looking
Speaker 3: around being like, wait, I am doing the most. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: everyone else seems to be very comfortable just showing up
Speaker 3: as they are, including their hair. And when you're in
Speaker 3: graduate school for acting and you're studying the craft of acting,
Speaker 3: you have to do a lot of self reflection, a
Speaker 3: lot of self work in order to take on different
Speaker 3: characters and being sort of these fantastical worlds. And I
Speaker 3: was doing a lot of writing and self reflecting. And
Speaker 3: I remember being at home and I was about to
Speaker 3: go get my relaxer touch up. And I'm living in
Speaker 3: South Carolina, by the way, and I remember thinking like,
Speaker 3: why am I so ashamed of my hair? Why are
Speaker 3: we collectively as a people the people that I grew
Speaker 3: up with. Why are we so ashamed of showing up
Speaker 3: as we are? And of course there's a whole lot
Speaker 3: of historical context around that, But I really wanted to
Speaker 3: start the journey for myself and kind of find out,
Speaker 3: like what's underneath all of these like these weaves and
Speaker 3: wigs and chemical treatments. I had no idea really what
Speaker 3: my hair looked like outside of the new growth that
Speaker 3: was coming in before I decided to like chemically relax it.
Speaker 2: I'm curious to know how your acting training, how that
Speaker 2: translates into your YouTube channel, because I think that's a
Speaker 2: pretty unique angle to come into it with. I know
Speaker 2: a lot of influencers might get into acting, but that
Speaker 2: was your start. So how did that influence you?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, So when I started acting, it was
Speaker 3: and so it's not it's a different medium than being
Speaker 3: on camera, but I knew that I wanted to do
Speaker 3: like more film and television, so I was used to
Speaker 3: critiquing myself watching myself, you know, So for me, I
Speaker 3: think there wasn't necessarily the intimidation factor of being seen,
Speaker 3: So that was that was definitely a big plus and
Speaker 3: a big help. But I will say that the way
Speaker 3: that it influences me is through storytelling. I think of
Speaker 3: things and acts. So you know, there's the you know, beginning, middle, end,
Speaker 3: or like chapters of a book. Right, So it's like
Speaker 3: act one you present the problem or the subject of
Speaker 3: the story. Act two you are like going through the
Speaker 3: trials and tribulations of whatever that you know the subject is,
Speaker 3: whether it's like testing a product, doing a hair tutorial,
Speaker 3: telling telling a story. Act three is typically like the
Speaker 3: conclusion after the big climax, right, what was the result?
Speaker 3: And then the conclusion is is like the final act
Speaker 3: would be my thoughts and feelings behind what happened, and
Speaker 3: then we end curtained.
Speaker 2: Down, say really trying to take folks on a journey
Speaker 2: with you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I do. And it wasn't something that was
Speaker 3: in the beginning intentional. I think that's just how my
Speaker 3: mind works. And then as I got more and more
Speaker 3: into content creation and what engages viewers, I think became
Speaker 3: a lot more solidified.
Speaker 1: Are there any other creators that you look to, maybe
Speaker 1: in the past or today when you're creating your haircare
Speaker 1: videos YouTube?
Speaker 3: Ooh okay, So in the past, I African Export was
Speaker 3: one that I looked at there was another called her.
Speaker 3: Her name was like unique unique, something uniquely or you
Speaker 3: after young Unique, I think, I want to say. And
Speaker 3: there was oh my gosh, none of these people create
Speaker 3: content anymore, by the way. So and there weren't a
Speaker 3: lot of people who had my hair type. There were
Speaker 3: people who were close, but not really like four C
Speaker 3: except for maybe African Export I'd say colored Beautiful. She
Speaker 3: did some hair content back in the day as well. Uh.
Speaker 3: And of course I look at other people and other niches,
Speaker 3: but today I'm gonna be honest. I don't watch a
Speaker 3: ton of people except for my YouTube friends. So there's
Speaker 3: Jim Jackson, we have four Sea hair. We're pretty close friends.
Speaker 3: There is Nappy Fu her real name is Grace. I
Speaker 3: watch her her channel as well. We're also close friends.
Speaker 3: Fay in the City. I love her personality. I love
Speaker 3: how she injects yeah, she just she has a great personality.
Speaker 3: And Charae del Soul I would say she doesn't have
Speaker 3: the same kind of hair hair type. I believe her
Speaker 3: is this looser, but I really enjoy her her content
Speaker 3: as well, and the hairspace.
Speaker 2: I'm curious, like putting on your actor hat and your
Speaker 2: YouTuber hair. What archetype do you see yourself as? Like
Speaker 2: are you the hero, the lover, the everyman? Like, what
Speaker 2: do you see yourself when you're on YouTube as well?
Speaker 4: I'm always the hero and we're the main character here. Okay,
Speaker 4: but you know, it really is a hero's journey, and
Speaker 4: I have to think about it in the concept of
Speaker 4: like the long term. There's the individual video of like
Speaker 4: the hero's journey, right the things that happen. But I've
Speaker 4: been doing this for like thirteen years. That's a long time,
Speaker 4: and you know, starting in the beginning, it literally was
Speaker 4: only exploration and being excited about like the small things,
Speaker 4: like the things that seem small to me. Now like
Speaker 4: I got my first afro puff, the first time I
Speaker 4: did a quail out, my big chop, and all of
Speaker 4: those sort of like emotional.
Speaker 3: Investments and things like that. Right now, it's a lot
Speaker 3: more research and diving deeper and you know, like how
Speaker 3: many times can I do a twist out? And I'll
Speaker 3: still do them, but you know, now it's about the
Speaker 3: science of hair and you know, how do we keep
Speaker 3: it healthy? Certain products, how they may or may not
Speaker 3: benefit you, my my you know, product reviews, things like that,
Speaker 3: so it's changed, but I mean we always got to
Speaker 3: have a little drop at least some some you got
Speaker 3: You've got to be entertaining, you know. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: always the main character.
Speaker 1: So I want to hear about your relationship with the
Speaker 1: YouTube hair care creator community, all the people who love y'all,
Speaker 1: who engage with y'all, who have been rooting for y'all,
Speaker 1: and like sticking with y'all throughout all the years. I
Speaker 1: know there have been a lot of changes. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of trends. There's a lot of accountability holding
Speaker 1: for what like the creators we care about and that
Speaker 1: teach us share with us, like you know, people relaxing
Speaker 1: right now, all kinds of trends. So what is your
Speaker 1: experience of those ups and downs with the community or
Speaker 1: your community specifically.
Speaker 3: I got to give a shout out to anyone who
Speaker 3: chooses to do natural hair content. It is challenging because
Speaker 3: it can be so emotionally charged on so many levels,
Speaker 3: especially for people of color, and navigating those spaces when
Speaker 3: you're speaking about sensitive topics and even how you show
Speaker 3: up on camera and you represent your hair type, people
Speaker 3: will pick things apart. And I think when I first started,
Speaker 3: you were a lot more able to just be yourself
Speaker 3: and there wasn't so much sensitivity around everything that you say,
Speaker 3: and now I have to be very cognizant. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a really challenging space, but it's also a beautiful space.
Speaker 3: This is the space in which I learned about myself,
Speaker 3: I learned about my community more, I learned from other creators,
Speaker 3: especially in the time where people with type four hair
Speaker 3: just weren't really welcome in hair salons unless you were
Speaker 3: trying to get locks or braids. People just even today,
Speaker 3: really aren't willing to deal with the length of time
Speaker 3: it takes to do type four hair. And there are
Speaker 3: so many licensed cosmetologists out there and hairstylists should I say,
Speaker 3: that are just not experienced and are completely intimidated looking
Speaker 3: at our hair. And it's not just white people, it's
Speaker 3: black people, you know. The discrimination is real. And so
Speaker 3: being able to turn to a platform like YouTube where
Speaker 3: there's other creators that are sessing through any challenges with
Speaker 3: their hair and teaching how to get it healthy, how
Speaker 3: to make it grow, how to style it has just
Speaker 3: been such a treat and really invo valuable. So shout
Speaker 3: out to all the creators out there more after the break.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about all of the different kinds of tropes
Speaker 1: that come up in the visual storytelling of YouTube haircare.
Speaker 1: So like, I don't know, the slow turn, the glam intros,
Speaker 1: you know, the before and the afters. What are some
Speaker 1: of those tropes that you really like and have been
Speaker 1: as maybe have been inspired by, you know, I.
Speaker 3: Think for comedic effect, I'll use slow B role. I
Speaker 3: think I did that a little bit earlier in my career,
Speaker 3: where I'll be like touching my hair and I'll be
Speaker 3: like the slow falling of the hair. I would make
Speaker 3: fun of it by like putting almost like porn esque music,
Speaker 3: like just making fun of it. But uh, in terms
Speaker 3: of editing, I use a lot of B role. B
Speaker 3: role is so important, and especially when you're on a
Speaker 3: visual platform, people want to see what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: They don't just want to hear it, So B role
Speaker 3: is so important for that. I do a lot of
Speaker 3: fast cuts to keep the engagement there. People's attention spans
Speaker 3: are just shorter and shorter, so I do a combination
Speaker 3: now of long form and short form videos on all
Speaker 3: all of my platforms.
Speaker 1: I know that there also have been a lot of
Speaker 1: changes to the YouTube platform itself. I'm wondering if any
Speaker 1: of those changes have been particularly positive or negative, and
Speaker 1: how have you responded to those.
Speaker 3: For YouTube? YouTube is the goal. I'm just going to
Speaker 3: say this because I feel like of all of the platforms,
Speaker 3: the people who are in charge of creator success and
Speaker 3: whatever that looks like, I feel like they really take
Speaker 3: care of their creators the best. Like my largest sort
Speaker 3: of passive income checks come from YouTube as opposed to
Speaker 3: any other platforms. Some platforms don't even pay, So there's that.
Speaker 3: As far as protections against like bullying, racial slurs, like
Speaker 3: being able to I guess blacklist certain words, certain phrases
Speaker 3: has been so helpful. The introduction of YouTube Studio so
Speaker 3: that I could see comments in real time, because once
Speaker 3: you have a lot of videos, you just you're not
Speaker 3: going back to your older videos. So when you use
Speaker 3: an app like YouTube Studio, you can see the newer
Speaker 3: comments a lot easier. So it helps me stay engaged
Speaker 3: with my audience. But I would say an area of
Speaker 3: opportunity that these platforms have would be protections against original
Speaker 3: content and reposting and making sure that creators get their
Speaker 3: credit and that they get a piece of the views.
Speaker 3: I mean, historically, people of color have had so many
Speaker 3: ideas stolen from them, and you know, I want the
Speaker 3: original creators to get that credit.
Speaker 1: Did you have any mentors, any YouTube haircare creator mentors
Speaker 1: when you were first starting?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 3: I actually didn't find my tribe of people until like
Speaker 3: much later on, when I was already established.
Speaker 1: I think I'm thinking about that because I feel like
Speaker 1: now it seems to be at least from the outset
Speaker 1: looking in, like a lot of people you know, shout
Speaker 1: out to other people that they know that are helping
Speaker 1: them and give them tips. But it's probably because there's
Speaker 1: so much more structure around it now and people are like,
Speaker 1: you know, they can create courses about how to do
Speaker 1: this thing that it's easier for them to access help,
Speaker 1: which is probably a good thing that happened. If it
Speaker 1: weren't for people who just tried to figure it out
Speaker 1: on their own before, then this wouldn't even be possible today.
Speaker 3: Absolutely agree. Yeah, there just wasn't no one I when
Speaker 3: I turned on my camera in twenty ten, no one
Speaker 3: I knew was doing this. People were making fun of me.
Speaker 3: I was working for support at the time as a
Speaker 3: I was a certified makeup artist there and my friends
Speaker 3: or my coworkers, I would call them, you know, when
Speaker 3: they found out that I was doing YouTube videos. You know,
Speaker 3: they knew and they would say sly remarks or about
Speaker 3: you know, these YouTube makeup artists and things like that.
Speaker 3: It was it was, you know, and then fast forward
Speaker 3: like five years later, they're asking for advice. So I think,
Speaker 3: you know, I think that you just got to do
Speaker 3: what you what you have to do, whether you have
Speaker 3: help or not. You know, I think women, Black women
Speaker 3: in particular, were very resourceful. We've gotten through a lot,
Speaker 3: and you know, sometimes people don't want to help until
Speaker 3: you've put some sweat equity into it, you know, that's
Speaker 3: the nice way of putting it.
Speaker 2: I think that also go back to what you were
Speaker 2: talking about with not being afraid of being seen and
Speaker 2: your actor training helping you with that, because I can
Speaker 2: see if you're going to work every day and some
Speaker 2: folks are, you know, making fun of you, Like someone
Speaker 2: who didn't have that mindset would be like, okay, let
Speaker 2: me stop, like this is silly, but you were like, nah,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep doing it. And like you said, five
Speaker 2: six years later they want your help m hm.
Speaker 3: For me, it was an outlet that I wasn't willing
Speaker 3: to let go. You know, as an actor in particular,
Speaker 3: or even working at a job, you're relying on someone
Speaker 3: else to pay you, someone else to say yes, that
Speaker 3: you're good enough that you can do the job. And
Speaker 3: when I turn on my camera, there are very there's
Speaker 3: very low barriers. I turned on my camera. If as
Speaker 3: long as you have internet and a little bit of equipment,
Speaker 3: you're there. And so there was no way I was
Speaker 3: going to let some sly remarks get to me and
Speaker 3: you and I had I didn't know what YouTube would become.
Speaker 3: I wasn't getting paid to do anything. I wasn't doing
Speaker 3: brand deals or anything like that. That stuff just what
Speaker 3: didn't exist, especially for black and brown people. When we
Speaker 3: started finding out that like the Juicy Stars and the
Speaker 3: glitter Whoever's of the world, you know, we're getting paid.
Speaker 3: We weren't getting paid then, and when we were getting paid,
Speaker 3: it was pennies. So yeah, I did it because it
Speaker 3: was an outlet. It was something I had control over,
Speaker 3: and you know, yeah, I wasn't gonna stop.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like YouTube haircare creators get the recognition
Speaker 1: that they deserve today.
Speaker 3: Yes, and no, I think that the community that has
Speaker 3: been helped absolutely uplifts natural hair creators. Absolutely. I think
Speaker 3: other creators uplift other creators. I think in terms of
Speaker 3: economics and how things work in business, Like for example,
Speaker 3: it's very rare that you'll see platforms like TikTok, Meta,
Speaker 3: Google actually giving recognition to natural hair creators. Google did recently.
Speaker 3: I was a part of natural hair creator like appreciation
Speaker 3: like playlist and all this, But I mean, those are
Speaker 3: those are small little recognitions. I would like to see
Speaker 3: the platforms do a better job because we really do
Speaker 3: bring a completely different flavor demographic. We bring the spice
Speaker 3: and they need us, and I think it would be
Speaker 3: nice to get a little bit more recognition publicly. And
Speaker 3: I would also say that hair care brands, I don't
Speaker 3: feel like they really, I don't know, we're not really
Speaker 3: getting our kudos for helping so many, especially like I mean,
Speaker 3: any hair company really, to be honest, but even the
Speaker 3: black owned brands, I've had a lot of disappointment in
Speaker 3: that area in which I will see, you know, like
Speaker 3: the shade moistures of the world and the you know,
Speaker 3: all of those not necessarily calling them out. They've never
Speaker 3: done anything to me. But you know, those companies that
Speaker 3: started being predominantly black owned, and we've talked about their products,
Speaker 3: we've recommended them, we've done it for free. And to
Speaker 3: have them be successful and reach these heights and turn
Speaker 3: around and say we don't have a budget for you,
Speaker 3: while they have a budget for celebrities, a budget for billboards,
Speaker 3: a budget for everything else except for investing into the
Speaker 3: very people that invested in them. That's hurtful, very hurtful.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of opportunity there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've noticed that with brands. It's like they're happy
Speaker 2: to get their free promo, but when it's time to,
Speaker 2: you know, pay what it's worth. Because I'm more inclined
Speaker 2: to believe a YouTuber showing me their process versus a commercial,
Speaker 2: because like, of course you're going to say your product
Speaker 2: works well, but you know this YouTuber they are going
Speaker 2: through it and I can see the before and after,
Speaker 2: I can see the slow mo and see what it's
Speaker 2: hitting on, you know what I'm saying. So it's it's
Speaker 2: interesting that that's what the that's what the I guess
Speaker 2: ethosis for a lot of these companies and like you said,
Speaker 2: hopefully that changes soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because a lot of haircare creators have quit. It's
Speaker 3: just not sustainable. You know, the people who are doing
Speaker 3: more lifestyle content, who are you know talking about big
Speaker 3: brands and you know there they have the money, they
Speaker 3: have the budget, they have the checks, and they're willing
Speaker 3: to invest into creators. They typically don't really come our
Speaker 3: way unless it's a Black History Month, but you know,
Speaker 3: were working on that.
Speaker 1: Would you recommend a black person getting into hair care
Speaker 1: on YouTube? Yes?
Speaker 3: And no. I think that I think that we need
Speaker 3: to see more change so that it could be sustainable
Speaker 3: for black creators. You know, we have bills to pay
Speaker 3: just like everyone else, and we need to be recognized
Speaker 3: that we have businesses too. We may be relatable, but
Speaker 3: it's still a business. I think that if you if
Speaker 3: you're going to go into natural hair care, you have
Speaker 3: to be aware of the sensitivities of the topics because
Speaker 3: there's a lot of there's a lot of energy behind
Speaker 3: what some people say. You have to be aware that
Speaker 3: a lot of brands won't be willing to pay you
Speaker 3: as much as your white counterparts. You just have to
Speaker 3: go into it with your eyes wide open. And eventually
Speaker 3: get to a space where, honestly, for me, you create
Speaker 3: something of your own and you start creating opportunities for
Speaker 3: other people.
Speaker 1: Does it make you happy this work? It does? It does?
Speaker 3: I think you can't be a creator and hate it.
Speaker 3: It shows way too much. We all can see when
Speaker 3: people are kind of going through the motions that are
Speaker 3: burnt out. I love having the control over this story.
Speaker 3: I love telling stories. I love being able to turn
Speaker 3: on my camera and connect with people all around the world.
Speaker 3: I love the impact that I'm able to create, and
Speaker 3: I love the few opportunities for other people that I'll
Speaker 3: hopefully be able to employ and help along with this process.
Speaker 3: So I absolutely love it. I wouldn't change I wouldn't
Speaker 3: change anything so far. It takes grit, determination, persistence to
Speaker 3: do anything really in this world. But to put yourself
Speaker 3: out creatively, it takes something in you that you can't
Speaker 3: let anybody else touch. You do the work that you love,
Speaker 3: that edifies you, that fills you, that feeds your soul,
Speaker 3: and you focus on the people, and that is what's
Speaker 3: going to keep you going.
Speaker 2: And now it's time for role credits, the segment where
Speaker 2: we give credit to a person place or thing we
Speaker 2: encountered during the week, and we have our guests with us.
Speaker 2: But first, Eves, who are what would you like to
Speaker 2: give credit to today?
Speaker 1: I like to give credit to working outside. So I
Speaker 1: just got a new computer and finally I am not
Speaker 1: stuck to either, you know. I'm grateful for them, of course,
Speaker 1: but like I wasn't able to move around as much,
Speaker 1: so I don't have to just be at my desktop
Speaker 1: inside working anymore. I can enjoy the sunlight and the
Speaker 1: fresh air and also the bugs that come around. Because
Speaker 1: I am in Georgia, y'all, and it is hot outside,
Speaker 1: but it's nice. I've been working outside a lot, So
Speaker 1: that's what I like to give credit to today.
Speaker 2: How about you, LaToya, I'm going.
Speaker 3: To give credit to my husband, Ja Cuserles. We're both entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3: We're both navigating the space. He's talking to investors and
Speaker 3: all the things, and he's teaching me so much about business.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing. The thing that I love about
Speaker 3: our relationship is not only do we fulfill each other
Speaker 3: in a sort of romantic way, he has made it
Speaker 3: a point to pass down his knowledge from meetings and opportunities,
Speaker 3: and he wants to see me win just as much
Speaker 3: as I want to see him win. And that's the
Speaker 3: kind of partner that I needed. And he's a wonderful
Speaker 3: father too, So I'm gonna shout him out. Shout out
Speaker 3: to all the good husbands out there and strong, beautiful
Speaker 3: black man.
Speaker 2: Okay, I would like to shout out the Creative Commons
Speaker 2: license slash public domain, especially for things that are like
Speaker 2: not old, that are in there, Like I'm one hundred
Speaker 2: percent here for people getting their payments for their.
Speaker 1: Art they're created.
Speaker 2: But if you put your stuff in Creative Commons license
Speaker 2: or public domain before it automatically gets in there, shout
Speaker 2: out to you, because that has helped me so much
Speaker 2: this week. And I'm always so pleasantly surprised. I'm like, what,
Speaker 2: this isn't the this isn't the public domain? Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I'm so excited. But yeah, I love the knowledge sharing,
Speaker 2: the art sharing that is going on with that license.
Speaker 2: So that's what I would like to shout out to.
Speaker 2: And where can people find you?
Speaker 5: On the interwebs so many places, so if on pretty
Speaker 5: much every platform, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you can search LaToya
Speaker 5: ebenie or LaToya ebeni haare and I will pop up.
Speaker 3: Have two YouTube channels, LaToya Ebnehair and LaToya Ebenie. And
Speaker 3: for my company you can look up Someday Sunday dot com.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining us. This is
Speaker 2: really fun.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. Have a great
Speaker 3: day YouTube Bye Bye.
Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.
Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us
Speaker 1: an email at hello at on Theme dot show. Head
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