WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Joe's New Podcast 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.400 Hey, this is Joe and I have a new podcast. 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:04.440 If you haven't heard already, it's me and also my 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:08.039 friend Vincent. Say, hi, what's up Caldoni? Yeah, and uh, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:10.440 we're presenting an episode of it. You might have heard 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:12.760 our first episode last week before. Warned this is not 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.280 going to be showing up in the Sideways feed forever, 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.159 so you need to go out to iTunes look up 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.919 The Shocking Details, which is the name of our new podcast, 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:26.239 Details Shocking Details. Yeah, subscribe of course, give us a 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:42.040 rating five stars and all that stuff from thinking Sideways podcast. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:46.080 I'm there. Welcome to another episode of The Shocking Details. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.879 I am Joe, joined as always by Vincent Caldoni, and 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.360 we've got on the story for you this week. Interesting 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.279 little story that you probably never heard about. And I 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.560 know it's not Halloween, but really, any time of the 0:00:57.600 --> 0:00:59.640 year is a good time for a ghost story, right Vince, 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.800 especially if it's an Arkansas go story. Yeah, this is 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.720 in Arkansas gost story. This particular story got a lot 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.080 of national publicity back when it happened. This is in 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.959 late nineteen nine, but it's completely dropped into obscurity sense, 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:13.920 so I had never heard of this when you sent 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:16.240 this to me and I heard it was the Arkansas Ghost. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.760 I literally thought it was a different story altogether. Yeah, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:21.440 so don't I know this one, But it was not 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.480 the story that I that I read wasn't just a 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.800 ghost it was a ghost trial. Yeah. I thought, anyway, 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.679 we should dread the story up and shock you all 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.480 with the gory details. And so I started the beginning. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:39.120 Oh yeah, right. The Judge Marcus Bone presiding in the 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.040 child of these defendants of the murder of Mr Conrad C. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:49.280 Franklin is the state's prosecution president. Today is the defense president. 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:59.920 Is the victim president. In January ninety nine, a man 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.000 named Connie Franklin came to the St. James settlement in Arkansas. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.560 That's the town of St. James. If you want to 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.600 know where this town is, it's about ten miles east 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.440 of the town of Mountain View, about seventy five miles 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.000 north northeast of Little Rock, about a hundred ten miles 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.680 northwest of Memphis, Tennessee. And it's really it's there today, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:20.720 but it's kind of a white spot in the road really, 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.959 but it's still there. But Connie Franklin found himself jobs 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.320 as a farm hand and a timber cutter, and when 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.600 he wasn't working, he was known for playing his French 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.320 harp also known as the harmonica or just the harp um. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.000 And also if we're hitting on the local women, which 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:39.560 you know, what else does there to do right now? 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:42.960 And talk to the girls pretty much. She met a 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.560 local girl named Tiller Ruminer. Tiller was sixteen, by the way, 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.640 Connie was about twenty two years old. The two of 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.480 them hit it off real good, had a whirlwind romance, 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:56.800 and according to Tiller, on March nine, Connie proposed marriage 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.640 and she accepted. So that is whirlwind. That's like two 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.880 months he's really yeah, it is. But then Connie Franklin disappeared. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.840 A few of the town's folk noticed, although nobody seemed 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.880 to think it was exceptionally odd, because Connie was, after all, 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.000 kind of an itinerant farm hand type of guy, and 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.200 there was a lot of that back This is you 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.639 know a lot of people drifted around from odd job. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.359 Oh definitely, especially in the world like like wheat and stuff. 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.240 They would it would follow the harvest as it as 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.720 it matured. Absolutely did seem a bit. Uh. Apparently Connie 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.520 had left his knapsack behind and his mail was still 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.320 being delivered to the local post office, which you wouldn't expect. 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.239 I mean, if he had taken up residence somewhere else, 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.720 you would think he would have have has mail forwarded. 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.720 Perhaps makes sense, yeah, But nonetheless, it was just as 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.360 soon by most everybody that Connie had just drifted out 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.800 of town the same way he drifted in. And he'd 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.400 only been there a couple of months after all, anyway, right, 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.920 all right, so he was soon forgotten by most of 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.160 the folks in the town, except a few of them 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.160 found his unannounced departure to be kind of suspect, especially 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.720 if somebody named Bertha Burns we will talk about a 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.120 little later. She was an armchair detective who got kind 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.960 of involved in this mystery. Yeah, she was. She was 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.960 actually sort of harassing the sheriff on and off about 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.680 this for months after Connie's disappearance. You gotta do it 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.680 if you want stuff done. Yeah, But of course, you know, 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.320 just because Bertha is suspicious about something does not mean 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.200 that sheriff can go arrest somebody. Right, what what did 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.120 Tyler think about this? I mean, she must have had 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.040 an opinion about him running out of town. Well, yeah, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.359 but she wasn't really talking interestingly enough until until later 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:38.039 that year, in November nine, That is when Tyler finally 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.600 came forward and told her story. She went to the 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.960 local sheriff, Sam Johnson and told him that Connie Franklin 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.040 had been murdered back in March. She hadn't said anything 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.800 about it to anybody because the murderers were local guys 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.960 night riders in other words, vigilantes, and they had told 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:54.880 her that she and her family would all be killed 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.080 if she snitched. But eventually Taylor did decide to snitch, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.440 and here is her story. On March, Connie and Tiller 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.760 we're on a country road, headed a local Justice of 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.239 the peace Finnish Ford to get a marriage license south 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.440 of St. James, not far from the tiny town of 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.520 Red Stripe, Arkansas. Love that name, that's a great name, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.560 Jamaican beer. Yeah. They were ambushed by four men, Joe White, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.479 Bill Younger, Herman Greenway, and Hubert Hester Greenway. And Hester 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.040 raped Tiller and they made her watch while they beat 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.040 Connie to death with rocks and sticks. It's a hell 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.360 of a way to go. Uh. They built a large 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.960 fire and burned Connie's body. Many of the news articles 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.640 made reference to mutilation and dismemberment as well, but none 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.760 of those stories. All right, get down to the details 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.920 of what what got caught off? Yeah yeah, what exactly 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.680 they did to him? It sounds pretty horrifying. Yeah yeah. 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.320 And we should note that there's at least one newspaper 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.320 that said that Connie was unconscious but still alive when 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.359 he was put into the fire. But whatever, by the 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.200 time he was all done, he was he was dead. 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:08.920 Oh yeah, and there wasn't much left around but charred bones. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.960 those ones are hard to get rid of. Uh. Tiller's 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.840 story was corroborated by Ruben Harrold, a deaf, mute guy 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.480 who happened to be there. He also happened to be 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.080 Tiller's second cousin. Not sure why he was there, or 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.520 maybe he was tagging along as a witness to the wedding. 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.359 Maybe we're just stocking the stock. Maybe he was secretly 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.719 in love with his second cousin, and it's just like, yeah, 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.919 that happens. Yeah. I was hoping we would get to 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:36.560 the bottom of what he was up to, but we 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.440 don't ever really find out, do I guess he could 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:40.719 have just been out on the road and it was 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:45.279 just a coincidence. If it's a rural area, maybe yeah. 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.320 But he he gave a written statement to the county 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.240 prosecutor backing up Tiller's account. His account, by the way, 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.799 didn't claim that he had seen the raper the murder, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.080 just that he saw the accused caring Connie's body through 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.640 the woods. Maybe he was out there moonshine and so 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.279 he saw them carrying out his dead corpse. But this 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.000 is not part of the story. That which is why 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.800 did why did these guys spare him? Yeah? Did the 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.040 spare Reuben? And did he was he hiding from them? 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.160 Or maybe they thought they had never talked? Maybe they 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.160 threatened him the same way they did Tiller. Of course 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.280 the Reuben actually couldn't talk, but he was still right, 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.240 what's she, which is how he made his statement. It's 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.200 it's hard for me to imagine that if there was 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.440 something like that Reuben wentdn't hit right, that he wouldn't 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.840 have mentioned that, Like that seems like a detail to me, 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.640 right that I would want to include, Like if I 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.480 was witnessed to a murder and I was giving a 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.760 statement about what I had seen that day, I would 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.960 for sure include why didn't the killer try to kill me? Well, 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.600 he might have. I mean, most of the accounts of this, 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:49.160 this is actually kind of a lot was written about 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.040 this in the national press at the time, but of 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:52.560 course the press being what it is, a lot of 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.360 there were there were a lot of distortions, a lot 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.360 of valuable little details like that got left out about Lumen. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.440 I read a number of accounts that mentioned Reuben and 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.560 his account. They didn't say exactly why he didn't get 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.000 killed by that, by these guys or whatever. They didn't 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.280 say that, and so I you know, I really can't 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.120 say why. So they left out some really good, important 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.520 little details and and also inserted some probably fictional more 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.480 soelations details to make the story a little juicier, no doubt, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:19.960 I mean, that's how they did it. Back then, a 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.160 local woman named Bertha Burns, as I mentioned before, took 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:27.400 an interest in the Connie Franklin mystery. Bertha apparently lived 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.640 not too far from where Connie had been murdered, and 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:31.400 she had found a bloody hat in the woods that 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.520 she believed was Connie's. She showed it to Sheriff Johnson. 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.320 Sheriff Johnson presented it the hat to a grand jury, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.720 which declined to indict anybody because you know, it's not unreasonable. 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:42.760 It's it's a bloody hat, after all, I'm not much 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:47.959 else that blood does get on stuff. Yeah, I mean, 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.920 if you cut your head for some reason, you might 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.480 just throw your hat off and me like, I'm not 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.360 wearing that ever again. Yeah, And actually I feel as 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:55.959 we'll get to you a little bit later on the story, 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.440 there was kind of a not unreasonable explanation for that, that 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.640 that being bloody. Yeah. So, in the summer of Connie's sister, 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.560 or at least a young woman claiming to be Connie's sister, 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.880 came to St. James looking for him. Bertha Burns took 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.560 this is more evidence that there had been indeed foul 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:16.680 play after all. So if Connie had simply migrated, surely 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:18.600 he would have let his family know where he had 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.200 gone to. Bertha dug out the bloody hat to show 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.560 to the sister, and then led Sheriff Johnson into the 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.000 woods near her home to a pile of burnt bones, teeth, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.559 and ashes. This was all that remained of Connie, or 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.800 at least that's what Bertha believed. She also told the 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.320 sheriff that she'd heard a scream coming from the area 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.079 on the night that Connie disappeared were more likely some 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.040 time around that time, since Bertha couldn't have actually precisely 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:48.960 known which exact night Connie had disappeared. A little puzzling, 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.520 isn't it? Yeah it is, yeah, so and so hearing 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.160 all this till the rumor finally sat down with Sheriff 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.560 Johnson and told her tale of murder. Not long after, 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.000 of course, Tiller's cousin Rubens, admitted his written statement backing 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.839 her story up. This was finally enough for the grand 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.280 jury to indict, and they did Esther, Greenway, White, and 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.959 Younger were all indicted for murder. Another local named Alex 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.800 Folks was also indicted, even though Tiller had not mentioned 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.880 him originally in her story. Apparently he was accused because 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.080 he was known to be the ringleader of this little gang, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.160 so of course he must have been involved, right, There's 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.319 no way he took the night off, no, of course not. 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:27.280 What else was there to do is to go out 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.680 and with your fellow night riders and have a little fun, 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:34.120 right sure? Yeah, But it turns out also that Alex 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.600 Folks and a few of his friends had beaten Bertha Burns, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.640 his husband a few months prior to this for unknown reason. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.480 These guys were essentially kind of self designated Mora land 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.760 forces in the area. Yeah, I was gonna ask what 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.920 their what their affiliation? Where were they just highway bandits? 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.160 Were they in the clan? What was their deal? They 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:51.720 were not in the clan as far as I know. 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.600 They were just kind of vigilantes and moral enforcers. And 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.840 so somebody had strayed, somebody had committed the after, you know, 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.400 some transgression, they would go administer a little, a little 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.040 frontier justice apparently, well that's short, of course, a lynching, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.720 except you know, I mean, Connie as far as I know, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:11.360 is the only person that they ever killed. Okay, yeah, yeah, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.720 but yeah, apparently somebody had transgressed, especially if they transgressed 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.240 against them personally. I'm gonna have more questions about that 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.240 later on. Yeah, sure, keep going. Yeah, but but this 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.000 this leads to a question about Birtha Burns and her 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.240 role in all this. Was she was she just an 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.680 armchair detective or was she sort of spirit heading out 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.400 a way to get back at these people for attacking 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.520 her husband and beating him and what the very least, 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.520 she's got a conflict of interest a little bit, I 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.200 would say, there's a reason to wonder exactly about her 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.400 objective objectivity in this whole thing. So it's also worth 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.160 mentioning that the day after Connie's murder or disappearance, our 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:52.560 four vigilantes rated the cabin that Tiller Ruminer and her 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.680 family lived in. They accused Charlie Ruminer Tiller's father, a theft. 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.040 Though I can't tell you what she's what he stole, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.160 I don't know what didn't. They administered beatings for the 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.600 entire family from that nice guys, right, can you imagine 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.200 being a kid, like like you're like eating your your 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.640 cheerios and someone comes to be like your dad stole 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.280 from me? Like, kid, what did I do? I mean? 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.840 These are it should be pointed out to mean, this 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.400 is it's hard to sort out truths from rumor from 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.880 you know, yeah, this whole story, yeah's a strange story. 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.560 So they beat the whole family, and after that they 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.080 took Tiller's brother Hoy with them to work on one 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.920 of their farms as reparations for Charlie's crime whatever that was. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.280 So it must have been a crime against them, like 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.560 we know that much. Yeah, he stole something from one 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.160 of them, apparently, you know. So. Tiller would later say 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.200 that they took Hoit as a hostage to keep her 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.000 silent about the murder. I guess that's sort of halfway 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.280 makes sense. I mean, you know, it was just your 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.200 day after that whole thing. Maybe they thought, you know, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:58.439 that threats were not quite enough. Let's go, Yeah, just 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.040 as kind of an insurance, Paul, And that makes sense. 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.599 This kind of makes sense. Now, Remember all of this 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.160 happened before there are any serious accusations of murder. Yeah, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.600 this happened that this would have happened in mid March. Yeah, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.360 so let's let's lash forward to the trial of Greenway, Hester, White, 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.280 Younger and folks. It was all set for December nineteen 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.120 twenty nine, and local anger towards the accused was running high, 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.640 so they were being kept in jail cells outside the 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.640 county for their own production. Evidence for the prosecution was 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.960 this too. Witnesses that would be Tiller and her cousin. 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.680 The ear witness testimony of Bertha Burns regarding the scream, 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.240 a bloody hat and what was left of the body, 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.120 which was some charred bones and teeth, and of course 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.559 the fact that Connie Franklin was gone, which seemed to 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.040 kind of point towards some sort of foul play. Right. 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.480 The five defendants, however, had been saying since their arrest 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.200 that no murder had taken place. Connie was not dead. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.040 They said, well, in that case, then where was he 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.160 was the obvious question? Nobody knew this, but the case 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.240 by this time and received statewide publicty. So Connie was alive. 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.720 You would think he would have heard about this and 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:08.280 come forward, right, So you know, the prosecution did appear 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.000 to have some sort of a case, then, I mean, 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.760 well it would would it be beyond in your opinion, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:14.280 would it be on the pale that Connie could have 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.680 left the state, it went someplace else to work or 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.520 do whatever. Sure not, it's not beyond the relic possibility. 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.720 So that the prosecution seems to think they had some 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.520 sort of circumstantial case. An attacked body probably would have helped, right, 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.120 But still that's was growing in some quarters as to 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.880 whether there really had even been a murder. Yeah, the trout, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.080 but well, the trial was hold on. So actually I 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:39.880 wanted to ask you this when you when you sent 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:44.720 me the research material. Yeah, unless Bertha was lying, someone 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.320 got murdered, someone got burned on her property, right, Uh yeah, 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.280 or in the woods near her home that was her 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:55.200 property or not. It appeared it appeared from the ashes, 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.680 the bonus of teeth and everything, that somebody had been murdered. Right. 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.600 This is not for forensick, yeah, you know, like we 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.600 have today. They didn't probably even have blood typing, especially 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.680 if a body has been thoroughly burned. But I would 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.840 think that them, being a farming community, could tell when 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.400 you're looking at human teeth versus a deer or something, 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.160 right like, well, you know, and they sent that, you know, 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.000 they wanted to be all official about it. They actually 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:18.840 gathered all the evidence up and sent it to the 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.160 state crime lab to be examined. So somebody is dead. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.960 We just don't know if it's it appeared that somebody 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.800 was dead, but it did appear to be that then, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.960 and of course, uh, the some more evidence about this 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.640 comes out a little bit later about the body. But 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.080 this is now beginning of December, early December, the trial 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.800 is about to begin. Uh, And that is when the 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:47.360 ghost of Connie Franklin appeared. I know who said it 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.200 was a ghost story. I know, hey, but I know 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.360 Attenion atension mounts. But before we go any further, time 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.440 for a quick word from our sponsor. This week's episode 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.280 is brought to you by the motion picture in tech 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:05.400 Te directed by Vincent Caldoni's reacted by Vincent Caldoni. Yes. Yeah, 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.480 So the movie Contact is a story about aliens in 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:13.040 humans interacting. It is a psychological thriller where you will 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.600 never be quite sure what is real until the very end, 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.800 that at all. You can check it out at ww 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:24.120 dot contact movie dot com, watch the trailer stills, and uh, 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.080 find out about it all right. I haven't seen the 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.400 entire movie yet, I've seen some some parts of it. Yeah, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.400 it's got a cameo from Joe's it does. Yeah, I 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.000 have a little bit part in it, and you'll be 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.200 happy to know I have my clothes on. Yeah. Yeah, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:41.040 thank god. Right, it's not that kind of movie, Joe. Yeah, okay, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.000 So the five men were about to be tried for 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:48.960 the murder of Connie Francis, but then said Connie Francis, 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:58.720 Connie Franklin, I might leave that in. Yeah, Connie Francis 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.200 a singer, Yeah, good singer. Okay, So the five men 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.720 were about to be tried for the murder of Connie Franklin, 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.600 but then one Elmer Wingo from the nearby town of Moralton, 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:13.320 says Connie Franklin passed through there looking for work a 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.240 week or so after the alleged murder was supposed to 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:21.360 have allegedly taken place. Elmer Wingdo was a farmer and 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.439 Connie Franklin had worked on his farm a few years before, 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.920 so he would know what Connie looked like, right, exactly. Yeah, 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:32.120 And Arkansas newspapers ran the story along with Connie's photo, 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.919 and the families of the accused also offer rewards for 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.919 anyone who could find him, and amazingly, Connie Franklin was found. 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.359 It was a little money to motivate people. Uh, buttrick 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.159 still works, Yeah, it does. He was working on a 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.920 farm in the town of Humphrey, apparently unaware that he 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.600 had been murdered. He was brought back to the county 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.280 seat and delivered to the defense attorneys. They were happy, 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.520 of course, as were the accused and their families, and 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.320 of course the media when word got out, I mean, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.080 the media had already been drawn to town because of 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.160 the depravity of the story. It's the kind of thing 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.359 that excites people, you know, and that it had already 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.920 made the national news even before the return of Connie Franklin. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.200 And I mean it's a good story, right, I mean 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.400 it was a heinous crime. I mean, people say, are 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.399 on their way to get their marriage license and overtaken 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.800 by batties, beatings, rapes, burnings, and it's a good story, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.639 it said. Yeah, so it was. And so the media 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.440 was already kind of all over this. But then when 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.560 Connie returned to town, Oh my god, then that's when 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.560 things really got crazy. And apparently the town of Mountain View, 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.160 which is where the county courthouse was, which is where 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.080 the trial was supposed to take place, became the town 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.479 became a circus. It was over with reporters and just 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.679 curiosity seekers and stuff like that, you know, you know 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.360 that was back in the those stays. Yeah, everybody came 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.000 from far and wide because there wasn't much in the 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.679 way of entertainment. There was no internet, no TV, you know, 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.760 and so yeah, the national press descended like a murder 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:08.520 of crows. And uh, it's it did shock the nation. Um, 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.199 and it's really been said too that's the stereotype of 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.240 the Ozark Mountain people as to pray. The leader at 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.240 Morons kind of began with this story. Some people have 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.200 said this, and I think there's something to that. Since 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.919 Connie Franklin had, after all, risen from the dead, he 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:28.080 was Nick's nicknamed the Arkansas Ghost in the media. Great name. Yeah, 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.000 the Arkansas Ghost story went viral, or at least, you know, 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.920 whatever passed for virality in those days. Yeah. Story, Yeah, 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.480 I mean it's it's a pretty fascinating story. It would 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.560 be pretty amazing if that happened today. I mean, the 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.280 world's different. But yeah, just a guy turned up at 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:47.639 his own trial, yea, his murder trial, murder trail. Yeah. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.560 So some people weren't convinced that this new Connie was 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:53.919 the real Connie, or maybe it was his ghost. Some 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:55.960 people thought it might have been a ghost. That would 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.960 be a twist. Maybe someone had hired a ringer. Maybe 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:01.960 the sheriff was wondering that too, So he set up 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.840 a test, recruited several girls who resembled Tiller Ruminer, and 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:07.960 he put them in a room along with Tiller herself, 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:13.000 and then he asked Connie air quotes there to pick 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.880 her out, which he did without hesitation. Okay, so maybe 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.399 he'd seen a photo of hurt them may have been 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.000 photos in the paper for all we know, right until her, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.080 for her part, said that this guy was not the 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.760 Connie that she'd known. But Connie knew all sorts of 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.080 personal things about Tiller and their relationship, and she did 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.480 have an incentive to lie, because making a false police 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.920 report like that is a crime. Yeah, maybe she thought 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.600 if it was false, she just thought Connie was gone, 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.880 he wasn't coming back, and she'd get away with it. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.640 So Connie, Connie says, do you remember these songs are 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.639 saying to you? And we say outside the Creek and 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:47.600 tell her says to him and says, okay, well, if 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.240 you're kie, let's hear you sing the Lonesome Pine, which 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.280 Connie did, and Connie does, and as she does a 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:58.520 pretty creditable rendition of it. Then Tiller's dad, Charlie Ruminer, says, well, okay, 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.160 let's hear you play Turkey and this raw the French harp. 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.720 Connie does that too, along with some other tunes, you know, 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.720 just as well as the original Connie did. So, yeah, 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.080 according to the according to the papers, they seemed. They 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.719 seemed a bit unsure at this point in time, although 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.359