1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, thanks for pulling up a chair today for 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: Table for two. This time we're back at the Sunset 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Tower in Los Angeles for another great lunch. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: May I get a chop seted with salmon? I have 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: a sight of Frays. 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: The classic just they're excellent here too. Our guest today 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: started out as part of a group known as the 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Young British Artist. Prior to becoming a successful film director, 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: she was an acclaimed photographer. She has directed films such 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: as Nowhere Boy, which tells the tale of a teenage 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: John Lennon. Her most recent film, Back to Black, is 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: a stirring biopic of Amy Winehouse's life. There that's right, 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: we're having lunch with the incredible Sam Taylor John So 14 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss Back to Black, her photography, and 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: a lot more So. Pull up a chair and grab 16 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: a glass of rose, because this is going to be 17 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: a wonderful conversation. I'm Bruce Bosi and this is my 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: podcast Table for two. Welcome to Table for two. I'm excited, 19 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: so exciting. 20 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: Like I said, it's my favorite thing. But I looked 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 2: at my crazy schedule. I did fifty seven interviews in 22 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: one day yesterday. 23 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 3: No, yes, so if i'm a little holes. 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: Oh my god, well we need would you like something 25 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: to drink? 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: Ju I'm good with water, thank you. I'm going to 27 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: take care for my jongly jewelry so I don't drive 28 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: you crazy. 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: Back there hot with regular mos. Wait a minute, yeahay, Well, 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: first of all, if you've pulled up a chair today 31 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: on table for two, we're having lunch with an incredible woman, 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: a director. You have a movie Back to Black, which 33 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: is coming out the story of Amy Winehouse, which I 34 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: have a lot of questions. You've directed big blockbusters. You're 35 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: an artist, you're a photographer, you're a bread You're like 36 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: this encourags. We are having mom of four kids. 37 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: Let's try that, Imma four kids. 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: Where we often see you in the neighborhood. Yeah, Sam 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: Taylor Johnson, how are you. 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good. 41 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: Welcome. 42 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: My voice is a little rass beaver. 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: Tell me about what you're on the tours. 44 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: I'm on the Presto and it's interesting. This is my 45 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: fourth movie and this presst I'm loving it, and I 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: don't love prestols. I don't know if you ever hear 47 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: anyone say they like a presto now, but it's so 48 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: amazing when you get to talk about something that you 49 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: feel passionate about and yeah, and it sounds false, but 50 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 2: it's so true. I am so passionate about this film 51 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: and and I love talking about it, so I don't 52 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: I don't get tired of it. Although yeah, maybe fifty 53 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 2: six and fifty seven I was like, oh God, I'm done. 54 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: I beg did you know Amy personally? Had you ever 55 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: met her past cross in London? 56 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: No, It's interesting. I knew so many people in common. 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: We had so many friends, and so we were connected 58 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: through friends. But because maybe I had small kids and 59 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: I would you know, early to bed she was, you know, 60 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: famously quite a nocturnal animal. She I'd always kind of 61 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: catch the tailwind of her sort of that I derived 62 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: somewhere and people would say, oh, she's just left right interesting. Yeah, 63 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: but I did see. One of the things I'm so 64 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: grateful for is that a friend of mine took me 65 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: to the Young Voices of Jazz almost Talent night at 66 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: Ronnie Scott's, and she was one of the young Voices 67 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: of jazz. She was just this I don't even know 68 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: how old she was, probably not even twenty and uh, 69 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: and she was singing in the in this show in 70 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: the audience watched. 71 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: Isn't that what's so fascinating about life? Sam? There's moment 72 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: these moments, Yeah, never knowing down the path of life 73 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: that you're directing and telling a story of her life. 74 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: And then we ended up filming there. We filmed in 75 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: Ronnie Scott's the Jazz Club in London, where I had 76 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: seen her perform, and so it kind of gave me 77 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: the energy of how to create that scene that I'd 78 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: been there and I'd sort of had a sense of 79 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 2: you know, who she was in that moment and then yeah, 80 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: it reflects on it now kind of. 81 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of that. That's wild this film there. 82 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: Well, I want to I really want to talk about 83 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: her and your connection with her, But like, you've had 84 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: quite a story, really life yourself really cool, like on 85 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: a level that I don't think got dark like Amy's 86 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: life became, but you know, running around with really interesting 87 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: artists in London. Can you talk a little bit about your. 88 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: Sort of Yeah, I mean I had I had my 89 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 2: share of the darkest quite sort of turbulent childhood and 90 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: upbringing and then that led me, I guess, to becoming 91 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 2: an artist. If I get you know, as a shortcut 92 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 2: way of sort of saying, you know, interesting, turbulent, complex 93 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: dark at times has led me to where I am now. 94 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 2: I often think, so there are times where you know, 95 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 2: obviously when you're in it as a young person, it's 96 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 2: it's you know, it's terrible. And then as a sort 97 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: of more mature person who you know, I create movies, 98 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: I create art photography. Yes, I can see the complexities 99 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: of what I went through feeding into that. So am 100 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: I thankful and grateful? Probably I couldn't allow myself to 101 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: say that, But at the same time, I know that 102 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 2: there's an importance to what I went through in terms 103 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: of how I then sort of serve what I do, 104 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: I guess to the world. 105 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that it's fascinating when you have to 106 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: look at your life and you have a some twenty 107 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: twenty vision looking back, but knowing that without the difficult times, yeah, 108 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: the darker times, you don't get to really who you 109 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: are and be the visionary that you specifically are and 110 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: have the lens and the eyes. 111 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 112 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: Without that no, and I sort of went into the 113 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 2: art world. You know, I was sort of very wide eyed, 114 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: and you know, it was at the time where sort 115 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: of Damien Hurst and Tracy m and everyone was sort 116 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: of becoming during that time, and I was just so 117 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: sort of like, I don't know, over excited by it, 118 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: and I kind of again kind of caught the tailwind 119 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 2: of that and was exhibiting alongside those those people. And 120 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: then I had Angelica, who is my first she's twenty 121 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 2: seven now, and then within six months I was diagnosed 122 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 2: with cancer. So just as I was sort of in 123 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: my you know, pivotal moment of I you know, I'm 124 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: an young mother, but I'm also sort of becoming a 125 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: celebrated it all kind of crashed in and so there's 126 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: so much you had to answer that question at the beginning, 127 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: and it just like it told me through I'm like, okay, 128 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: let's sp talk with so don't want to do too much, 129 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: but I think you know all of that again, it 130 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: sort of all feeds in and again, am I grateful 131 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: to it? Not? But I know at the same time 132 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: it gives me a lens and a perspective to make 133 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: the movies I do. 134 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've survived cancer twice, You've had this, you know, 135 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: these moments that are just have life alter and life 136 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: changing that form you and your level of humanity. Just 137 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: you know, Sam is like having met you and you've 138 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: been to the house and run into each other in 139 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: the neighborhood. You know what I mean. 140 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: Lucky. 141 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: You know there's so much warmth and just such kindness 142 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: and I think that is that that's you can see 143 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: that in your art and you see it in your 144 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: photography and things. 145 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: And you can say it on Brian's windscreen when he 146 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: hikes and I put a parking cast in there when. 147 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: So there's acts of generosity, right. So we will hike 148 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: in an area where Sam lives, and we will park 149 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: where we shutn't and we'll come back and won't have 150 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: a ticket because you have come out seen the car 151 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, this is Brian's car, and went 152 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: very sweet. You know. 153 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: I've moved back to England now and I left that 154 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: beautiful place behind and I went for a hike around 155 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: Running Canyon this morning. I was like, wait, why did 156 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 2: I this is so beautiful? 157 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: Why did you live? 158 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: I think it was just, you know, post pandemic everything 159 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: you know, the lens shifts, doesn't it, And there was 160 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: something about needing to be home and taking the kids 161 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: home had grown up essentially in la and just sort 162 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: of showing them, you know, our roots and where we're 163 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: from and and just sort of existing in London. And 164 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 2: and you know, I think they would equally come back 165 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: and me and say are we grateful? I'm not so sure, 166 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: because you know, they left behind friends and you know, 167 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: one of my kids is a surfer tennis player and 168 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: she's like, yeah, thanks, thanks a bunch. The ocean's freezing 169 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: and nowhere near. 170 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: What has been difficult, you know, the being a woman 171 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: and being a woman in this business specifically, and what 172 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: we've seen happen. Is there a challenge that you comfortable 173 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: sort of sh. 174 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 2: I mean the challenge is that I feel like every 175 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: movie I make, you know, I'm back to ground zero 176 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: the next one. And then I see my male counterparts 177 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 2: and I'm like, wait, how come you got off of that? 178 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 2: It didn't even come to my door? Wait, this is 179 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: there's an indiscrepancy here. And I feel like I grew 180 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: up hustling and I never have stopped the hustle. And 181 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: you know, I'm a sort of beat on the door. Yeah, 182 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: and then and I've never stopped. I really, in fact, 183 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 2: this is the only time I felt like this back 184 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 2: to Black and Amy Winehouse, for it was such a gift. 185 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: It came to me I didn't hear about it, and go, wait, 186 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: I need to do that. I'm going to pitch myself 187 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: for it. 188 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: Wait. 189 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: It came to me via our producer, Alison Owen, and 190 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: she said, would you be interested in making the Amy Winner? 191 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 2: And I was saying yes before before I'd even finished 192 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: processing what that would mean and the responsibility, especially of 193 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 2: what I was taking on and and but that was 194 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: the first time where I felt like that I didn't 195 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: need to hustle. I had the job, and I knew 196 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 2: immediately what I was doing, and I just I just 197 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: sort of got into what felt like the fastest car ever. 198 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: I felt that some some movies to get them made, 199 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: you have to push a boulder uphill through treatment, and 200 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: sometimes they don't get made and you're still, you know, 201 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: pushing it. But this one, I feel like I'm in. 202 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: I'm on a sort of high speed train or a 203 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 2: faster sort of keeping up to that. 204 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting, you know, you the hustle, the fact 205 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: that no matter what, even after your last success project, 206 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: you're still finding yourself for a position. Yeah, A woman 207 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: to have to hustle and get yourself in the room 208 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: and it's. 209 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: Yeah and something like this. 210 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: It felt good to be a woman directing this story 211 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: about Amy, who you know. Had the reason, I mean, 212 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: one of the multiple reasons I wanted to do it 213 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: was I felt like growing up in you know, living 214 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: close to her in London, knowing people around her, but 215 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 2: also watching the intensity of her her sort of battles 216 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: and vulnerabilities played out in real time through the paparazzi lens, 217 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: you know, post her death, you know, the sort of 218 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: it being sort of fetishized in a way and picked apart. 219 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: And then there's the documentary, which I think was brilliant 220 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: by the way, but I felt like, again it was 221 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: sort of you know, picking apart her life, and I 222 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: wanted to almost go, okay, I want to make this 223 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: through her lens and her perspective, so that the because 224 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: you know, like the tragedy and the sense of her 225 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: being a victim, it really eclipsed the brilliance of her 226 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: music and who she was. So I kind of went 227 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: into it in the lens of, I guess, quite a 228 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: sort of protective, nurturing face. 229 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: Yes, you can really feel that in your movie. The 230 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 1: it's a beautiful movie and the album is you forget 231 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: like how prolific this album was, and her death and 232 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: her story eclipses sort of the brilliance of this woman 233 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: and her voice and her voice and her relationship. So 234 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: you know what was the most when you're making a 235 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: movie about someone who is a real person and has 236 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: family that's still alive. Yeah, what are the challenges in 237 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: making sure? 238 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: Tough? 239 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: Hay respect. 240 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough because the offset I said, you know, 241 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 2: I have to make the movie I want to make, 242 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 2: and I have to be allowed to so you know 243 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 2: who has what rights and how do I navigate that? 244 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: And Allison said, we have all the music rights, we 245 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: have Sony and Universal, we have every publishing everything, so 246 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 2: you are not bar olden too anyone. And she said, 247 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: and you know everything that you want to use that's 248 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: in the public domain. You know, we can work with. 249 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 2: And so I didn't have to be beholden to anything 250 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: or anyone. But at the same time, I met with 251 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: Mitch and Janis, who are her parents, out of respect 252 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: because I thought I'm making a movie about their daughter, 253 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: and you know, and there's a lot of heavy judgment 254 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: around particularly as well as Blake, her husband. But Blake, 255 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: I had so many scheduled meetings, but he got so frightened. 256 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: I think of meeting me in terms of maybe what 257 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 2: my perception and was of him or the point of 258 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 2: view I was going to take. 259 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 3: So I never met him. But Jack who plays. 260 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: Him, spent time with him, and Jack O'Connell. It's brilliant actor, 261 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: and he plays it with such humanity, not just a 262 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: sort of one dimensional villain. 263 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: No, you don't leave, yeah that your film thinking of 264 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: him as a villain. No, not the father, the father. 265 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: Because I felt like, if I'm making the movie in 266 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: her perspective, she loved her father and her family, and 267 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 2: she loved her husband. Therefore, if I'm true to her 268 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: guiding me through this story through her music and her lyrics, 269 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: then I have to look at them with love and 270 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: my judgment and everyone else's is irrelevant. So therefore, to 271 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 2: make you know a story essentially of addiction without judgment, 272 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: and to look at you know the process of what 273 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: she went through in the sense that I often think 274 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: you know with alcoholics anonymous on narcotics Anonymous that she 275 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: never had anonymity because whenever she did go to any 276 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: of those rehab places in England and the paparazzi would 277 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: get pictures break in and so she would leave. So therefore, 278 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: you know, it was it was a struggle. How did 279 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: I get to that bit? But yeah, so but you know, 280 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: essentially a huge responsibility to you know, who she was, 281 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 2: to addiction, to vulnerability, to her family, you know. But 282 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 2: at the same time, then make the movie I wanted 283 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: to make. 284 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: And the actress, I Portracer. 285 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: Is brilliant, Yeah, and the nicest person. Really, she's amazing. 286 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: How do you cast that? When you were looking at. 287 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was tough because of the at 288 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: the officet, I thought, you. 289 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 3: Know, who or how who? 290 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: How on what basically is going to be the right 291 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: character traits of the actor who's going to play this? 292 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: And I met Marisa, and I met a few others 293 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: and we just had, you know, tea casual conversation, and 294 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: then a few weeks later I sat with each of 295 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: them and we did a read through on camera. 296 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 3: Marisa was the first person in. 297 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: I really want to say, it was like this hugely long, 298 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: arduous journey to find her. I said to Nina Golder, 299 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: brilliant casting director, I don't want an impersonator, and I 300 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 2: don't want an impersonation. I need someone who can tell 301 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: me they can be Amy whine House from within. So 302 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 2: she narrowed it down and I met maybe eight ten 303 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: young women, and Marisa was the first girl in, and I, 304 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: you know, I was. 305 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 3: Chatting with her, and I thought, she's very sweet. This 306 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: was going to be her first movie. 307 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: You know, I felt like, you know, there was a 308 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: lot of challenges for me in my mind, meeting her, 309 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: to getting her to a place where she could be 310 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: a who was very raw, authentic, gritty, you know, really 311 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: you know, tough at times and very vulnerable at others. 312 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: And so, you know, I was sort of chit chatting. 313 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: I put my eye to the camera. I was sort of, 314 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: you know, looking and composing, how it's just going to 315 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: do the screen test, and she said, give me a minute. 316 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: She looked down, and then she looked up and she 317 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 2: met my eye through the lens, and it was the 318 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 2: most peculiar it's only ever happened to me once before 319 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: moment where I just knew it was her. I knew 320 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: in an instant before she'd even said anything, because she 321 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: she'd done something in that moment between talking to me 322 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: as Marisa looking down and looking up as Amy. And 323 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: it was this moment within her eyes where I saw 324 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: it was like a DNA ship and I thought, if 325 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: she can do that in these few seconds, give me 326 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: four months and I'll give you. 327 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 3: And she was astounding. 328 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: And she also said, you know, how are you going 329 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: to approach the music and singing because I'm not a singer. 330 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 3: I sing in the shower, but I don't sing. 331 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: And I said, well, I don't expect that, you know, 332 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: if I find the right person to expect them to 333 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: sing like Amy were so distinctive. But she went off 334 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: and trained in the beginning to just you know, move 335 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: her mouth and draw her turn in the same way. 336 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 2: But then she started to study Ella Fitzgerald, sir of 337 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: worn all the influences of Amy. And then she started 338 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: to get the sound. And we went to I say 339 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: we I had Charles Martin as music producer. We went 340 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: to watch her progress and I took out my phone 341 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: and I filmed her as she sat on the floor 342 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: and sang this Amy when how song? What is it 343 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: about men? And I filmed her and I had cheers. 344 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: I thought, if I can get her to a place 345 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 2: or she can get herself with training to the place 346 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: of singing this song in its entirety, and I film 347 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 2: it in this one take like this, the audience will 348 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: believe that this is a thank you so much, wow, 349 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 2: well sak you. And she trained and tried and trained, 350 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: and I still always obviously had the music to fall 351 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: back and sure, but Marisa got to a place where 352 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 2: I realized that emotionally, if she's in a concert hall 353 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: and Blake is there and she's singing, there is no 354 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: greater love than what I feel for you. I need 355 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 2: to hear the warble in that moment, yea, and not 356 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: the studio recording that are you had done so really, 357 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 2: she did the same. 358 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 3: She did the entire. 359 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: Movie Welcome Back to Table for two. Before the break, 360 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: we were talking with Sam Taylor Johnson about her new 361 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: film Back to Black. Amy Winehouse's life was both beautiful 362 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: and tragic, and I'm curious how Sam decided to handle 363 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,719 Speaker 1: the movie's conclusion. It's a wild ride to shore and 364 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: then of course just devastating because you feel you really 365 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: portray at the end the loneliness. Yeah that yeah, in 366 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: king Amy's life, it feels, you know, certain people now 367 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: not in her life, but you know her Grandmather was 368 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: no longer allowed. Her husband's now that's done. 369 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: It's just, you know, the thing is that the challenge 370 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: with the movie for me, when I sat down with 371 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: our brilliant writer Matt Greenow, she wrote my first movie, 372 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: you know, One Boy about John Lennon. He he and 373 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: I sat down and I said, I don't not everybody, 374 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: but people know that she met a sort of sad 375 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: end and it's, you know, a real tragedy and a loss. 376 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: But I don't want people leaving the movie theater feeling 377 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: depressed and down. I really need to somehow we get 378 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 2: to that moment, but then we're reminded of her brilliance 379 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: and we sort of leave on an up left and 380 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: I don't want to sort of give anything away, but 381 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: you don't leave, you leave the theater. I hope going. God, 382 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: she's sad, brilliant. I want to get home right now. 383 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: Music learn more about. 384 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: Was immediately go and you know, spotify and listen to 385 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: that album and you do. You end on an image 386 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: of the bird and then but then you end back 387 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: in the in the room and the power is there 388 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: and you're just like, yes, did you learn something that 389 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: you had no idea about me as you were filming 390 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: this movie and doing your research, and what is like 391 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: the process of your research when you. 392 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: Choose to direct the project is I mean, it's it's 393 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: I had to absolutely go headlong in that. There's a 394 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 2: few things I learned which I'm so happy to share, because, 395 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 2: for example, you mentioned the bird. I went to visit Janis. 396 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: I am his mother, and I said, you know, I 397 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 2: wanted to hear stories. But you know, she's she's quite well, 398 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 2: she's broken, you know, she's suffered, and she's very sort 399 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 2: of shot down on quiet. But she'll sit up and 400 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: remember a story and tell me and then she'll retreat 401 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 2: and then she'll sit up. 402 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 3: And most of those stories. 403 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: I'd heard, it was like she was sort of playing 404 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 2: out to me, you know, what she felt I wanted 405 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: to hear, or things like that. 406 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:23,239 Speaker 3: I don't want to push her. 407 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: I just wanted to sort of sort of sit in 408 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: her presence and allow her to just say what she wanted. 409 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 2: And then she said this one story which I didn't 410 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 2: know what. She wasn't documented anywhere, but she said, Amy 411 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: had a canary that she loved with a passion. 412 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: This little bird Ava Ava. 413 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: And she said, you know this, this little bird died, 414 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 2: and she took it in a sunglasses case and said 415 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: to her mom, we have to go to the cemetery 416 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: and we have to do a proper burial for Ava. 417 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: So they got in the car, they drove, you know, 418 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 2: however far, and they they buried Ava and they did 419 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 2: this little ceremony and she sang this song as she's 420 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: went home that night and she wrote this song called 421 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: October Song, which is on her first album. Frank, I 422 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: didn't know that story, and so I went to see 423 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: a friend of mine the next morning and I told 424 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 2: her the whole story. And then we walked out onto 425 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: the Portobello Road, which is like a marketplace, and there 426 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 2: was a guy stood there with a little birdcage with 427 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: a canary inside, like a Victorian clock, and it was ticking. 428 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: And I looked at my friend and I thank god 429 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: had her as a way this. It was the first 430 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: person out on the street that we saw. And I said, 431 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: how much is that little Victorian bird cage? And he said, oh, 432 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 2: you can have it for fifty pounds, you know. I said, okay, 433 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 2: I'll take it. And then I was telling my husband, Aaron, 434 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: the same story. Later that afternoon and we went for 435 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: dinner and he said, look behind you, and I looked 436 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 2: behind me and there. 437 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: Was a painting of a canary get out. I know. 438 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: So I thought, Okay, I get the signs. The canary 439 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: is in the picture. 440 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: She's telling you, telling me Holy So. 441 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: The canary plays biag in the picture. In the see 442 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: that it's it's throughout and it weaves a line. But 443 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 2: it's such a strong, powerful analogy. Fragile songbird, you know. 444 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: Okay, So you did fifty seven interviews yesterday. 445 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 3: I didn't tell anyone that yesterday. 446 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: Did anyone ask not the bird? 447 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 3: No one asks. 448 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: I just want to go you're. 449 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 3: The only one. And I'm not making that line. 450 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to choob my own horn. 451 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 3: But I do. 452 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 2: Making a movie about someone, you have to you have 453 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: to go into their space. You have to go into 454 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 2: their emotional space, their headspace. You have to sort of 455 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 2: I mean almost as a director, I almost had to 456 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: become like a sort of method actor in a sense 457 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: that I had to live her. So that whole canary 458 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 2: incident made me sort of, you know, create my own 459 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 2: sort of if you like spiritual connection in the sense 460 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 2: that not that I was. You know, actually that was 461 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 2: a moment where I was talking to her and now 462 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 2: I and I think you need to take some time out. 463 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 3: I was in the bathroom. 464 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 2: It's like, honey, who are you talking to? I was like, oh, Amy, 465 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 2: It's like okay, let's go. Let's But what I would 466 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: do was I'd look at every scene each day and 467 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: I'd stand on set and I'd just sort of take 468 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: a moment and think, how would she feel about this moment? 469 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: Is is what I'm you know, doing kind of the 470 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 2: right tone? Is it the right tempo? Is is you 471 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 2: know Marisa hitting that? I'm sure it's hit that, But 472 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 2: you know, is am I creating exactly what I feel 473 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: should be sort of endorsed by her? And And I'd 474 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: really sort of check in with myself every every day 475 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: and every moment that we'd sort of changed scenes, and 476 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 2: and that really came from that Canary moment, because I thought, 477 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: you know, I have to sort of honor I guess 478 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 2: you know that that the other side that's sort of 479 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: not seen. If that doesn't sound too. 480 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: Strange, No, no, no, it actually sounds. 481 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: It's a spiritual side where you just have to kind 482 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 2: of I think I mean spiritual is maybe not the 483 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: right word. It's more evocative. I've I've got to invote 484 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 2: exactly what she would be feeling in this moment. Therefore, 485 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: I have to live within her. I know, I found 486 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: out that. 487 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: I'm letting you have mom to eat your lunch. No, 488 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: the rooms that she found herself in when she had 489 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: to sort of stand up and say no, this isn't 490 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: the way it's going to be. Like when record companies 491 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: or what were having you were test saying you know, 492 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: this doesn't work or your show is not going to work. 493 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: This is what you have to do, and these sort 494 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: of ferociousness that has to come out of Again, I 495 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: think women specifically that you know, find themselves in rooms 496 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: being told by specifically men, well this isn't going to 497 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: sell or work, so yeah, you need to do it. 498 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: This it's a change, and her being like, yeah, no, 499 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do with that. 500 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. 501 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 2: She was very much fucking things like that happened. You know, 502 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: she was never molded. And there's a great interview which 503 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 2: I put in the in the movie about that where 504 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 2: she did the talk show and it was the first 505 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 2: talk show. So I also think, you know, she's so ballsy. 506 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 2: She goes on the talk show and Jonathan Ross says, 507 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 2: you know, has anyone tried to mold you? She says, yeah, 508 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 2: they tried me to mold me into. 509 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 3: I can't do our accent. 510 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 2: They tried to mold me into a big triangle shape 511 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: and I said no, just to be that sort of like. 512 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: She's sitting there watching the interview with her grandmom and 513 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: they both crack up. 514 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 515 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: The way you show that how Amy's life is, you know, 516 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: when it's the time, when it's ending. Yeah, it's done 517 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: very beautifully. It's not anything that you would expect somehow 518 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: to choose. It's it was tough. It's a very elegant. 519 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, moment it is. 520 00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 2: And I just knew that it just had to be 521 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 2: because you know what's about to happen, or you know 522 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 2: what's coming, So you have that pit in your stomach 523 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 2: and you're thinking, oh God, oh God. But then just 524 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 2: to sort of leave it in a place of allowing 525 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 2: her to have some grace and respect around her death, 526 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 2: I guess yes, And then look at me. I'm actually 527 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: tearing up to me and I've worked three years on 528 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 2: this realm, but it took me We edited that the 529 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 2: last three minutes for about a month. We changed it 530 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 2: and changed it and changed. 531 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 3: It's crazy, isn't it. 532 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: It is? 533 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 2: Even when I was filming on set, there were moments 534 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: where we filmed that last when when she's in. 535 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 3: The big pink, it's beautiful. 536 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,479 Speaker 2: It was our last day of filming, and we were 537 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 2: filming her last day alive. So it was our last day, 538 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: so we were having to sort of let her go 539 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 2: essentially as well. And Marisa and I, I mean, we 540 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 2: couldn't hold it together. Oh, it was so difficult because 541 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: we'd spent so much time in her music, her world, 542 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 2: her story, and here we were filming her last day 543 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 2: and sort of imagine what that felt like and what 544 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 2: was going through her mind. And then and then also 545 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 2: you know, knowing that the next day that was it. 546 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: Our job was done, and we could but it's interesting 547 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 2: because we both thought, well, this is the day we 548 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: sort of say goodbye to her, and then, you know, 549 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 2: a year later, I'm still sort of saying about still 550 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: talking about it on the press store. 551 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: And it's emotional, and you know her. 552 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 2: You know, we should we sholt fifty six locations in 553 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: forty five days, so we moved at the speed of light. 554 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 2: But there were days where I've just said to Maurice's 555 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: okate fil emotional. Today we're telling actually a story that's 556 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: so sad about someone so you know, alive in the 557 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: way that she sang and what she delivered and told 558 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: and the legacy that she left. But you know, the 559 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: sadness of a young life is always devastating. 560 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: This project, you were saying, yeah, yes, came out before 561 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: the war could even be form. What what do you 562 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: look for in the question? And you know, future project Horse. 563 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: It's a good question because you know there's a there's 564 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: a moment where you're in your mind, I'm never making 565 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: a film again. This is so hard, and it's like 566 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: a birthing process where someone says, you know you're going 567 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: to have another child and you're like, fuck off. 568 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 3: This was brutal. 569 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: But there is that moment and then as it gets 570 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: goes into the rear view mirror, like, wait, I really 571 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 2: love making movies. Give me another one. So I'm starting 572 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 2: to read, but it's nowhere. Boy, when I did that, 573 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 2: I didn't I think, give me a music biopic or 574 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: I want to make the story of John Lennon's early life. 575 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 3: It was. 576 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: I was just reading and I read the last page 577 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: of that script and my face was just wet with tears, 578 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: and I felt so moved that I just felt I 579 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: was like, I have to make this movie. And actually 580 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 2: with Nowhere Boy, they had another director and I went 581 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 2: in to meet the producers and I was literally I 582 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 2: was savage. 583 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 3: I was like, anything. 584 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 2: Happens to them, I'm here, I want to make this movie. 585 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 2: I was basically telling them to get them off and 586 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 2: get me in anyway. 587 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 3: They did. They left to do. 588 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: Something else that was a bigger blockbuster kind of thing. 589 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 2: This was a small independent yeah. So I saw my 590 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: window and actually that was one of the first moments 591 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 2: where I said, Okay, I'm here, I want to make 592 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 2: this movie. Yeah, And they said, oh, we're going out 593 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: to Stephen Freer, Stephen Dawdrey, that David Blabah, and I thought, 594 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: there isn't. 595 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 3: One woman on that list. 596 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: So I shamed them in that moment, which is why 597 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: they ultimately gave it to me, because I actually was 598 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: just like and also because I stalked them, I knew 599 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: what parties they were going to, and I was like, hey, 600 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 2: it's me. 601 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: That's a squeaky will. I mean that squeaky will, that 602 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: it was a squeaky will. You know, that's when you know. 603 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: And again, I think with you, things speak to you 604 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: very viscerally. So when you feel it sounds like when 605 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: you get connected to something. 606 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 3: It is, it's a visceral response. 607 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, I'm going to do everything I can, yeah, 608 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: to be in that room and get myself in that room. 609 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: Which also goes back to the beginning, which is what's frustrating, 610 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: is that it seems you have to start a point 611 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: a again again. You know, you've done the work, you've proven, 612 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, you're showing, you're giving the gift of your talent. 613 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: You shouldn't necessarily. 614 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 3: After start at the beginning. 615 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, thank you. 616 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: I agree, we say bullshit. 617 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 3: I don't know next. 618 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: I kind of feel like I want to make something 619 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 2: pure fiction absolutely no one. I don't want any anything 620 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 2: to do with anyone that wants to lift I understand 621 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: it because the responsibility weighs heavy on you during the 622 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 2: process and it's you know, and it's important that it's 623 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 2: pertinent and this has been a great experience, but I 624 00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: could do with a break from that. 625 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: From Yeah, thanks for joining us on Table for two. 626 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: Sam Taryla Johnson is not only a great director, but 627 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: an accomplished photographer. Her series Crying Men is a powerful 628 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,479 Speaker 1: collection of famous actors letting their guard down. She has 629 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: photographed everyone from Laurence Fishbourne to our mutual friend Tom Ford. 630 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 3: I took Tom's I want so, I was punds saying, 631 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 3: so this is where. 632 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: You put the light here, you put the foil under here. 633 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: And well, that's the question I'm leading to. When you 634 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: think about taking someone's picture, what is what you know? 635 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: How do you what's the lens that you see first? 636 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: Like if you were to look at me or a room, 637 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: what's is there something that you'd have to connect with? 638 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: I mean, specifically, if I'm doing portraits, which I love doing, 639 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: I I really just find who that person is in 640 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: a snapshot. And I guess seeing Maurica in that moment 641 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 2: was like finding her soul in a snapshot. 642 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 3: I guess, so it is. 643 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 2: It's just sort of like pulling out that sense of 644 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 2: who is this person on a very fundamentally deep level. 645 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: And sometimes you know, people are so layered and guarded 646 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: and complex that you can't always get there. So then 647 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 2: I did a whole series called The Crying Men, which 648 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 2: was twenty seven portraits sort of actors crying, and boy 649 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 2: do you see the soul when you ask someone's cry? 650 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 3: Wow, because all guards. 651 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 2: Goes down and even if someone's you know, of those 652 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: twenty seven, I would say probably twenty really cried, right, 653 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: and it's you know, it was Ed Harris, Paul Newman, 654 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 2: Benicio del Toro, I did a young unknown Ryan Gosling. 655 00:33:58,840 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 3: You know. 656 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 2: It's a series that was really interesting, and I did 657 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 2: it over three years and then there were seven people. 658 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: I just put the tearstick in, put some mental in 659 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: my pa. It'll look the same, and to be fair, 660 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: it still works because even even with that, there's something about, 661 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 2: you know, the pain in the eyes, either physically or emotionally. 662 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: Then let's there's a window in and it's a really 663 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 2: interesting series in that respect. 664 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: What made you think of that when you did the series? Yes, like, 665 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: you're brilliant, you're so sweet. I had the idea, I mean, 666 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: what happened in my life down? 667 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 2: You're cool? 668 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: Well, tell me about that. 669 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 2: That was an interesting one. It started out actually that 670 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 2: it was a GQ project of a Hollywood portfolio during 671 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 2: Oscar season? Right would I do it? I say, sure, 672 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 2: I lived in London. Who doesn't want to fly to 673 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 2: La have a bit of sunshine and meet loads of 674 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 2: really interesting people. So I said, but again, can I 675 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 2: do creatively what I want to do? Absolutely? But they didn't. 676 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 2: They didn't take into account. 677 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 3: Aren't. 678 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: But what I was then going to ask every single 679 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 2: one of those actors was to cry. But I didn't 680 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 2: want any of them to know. So Benieth, it was 681 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 2: also a bless him was the first in the room, 682 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 2: and I was, of course a little nervous, and I said, okay, 683 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 2: so you are the idea is that I have for 684 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,959 Speaker 2: this portfolio as I'd like you to cry? 685 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 3: And he was like nope. 686 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 2: I was like, wait, what do you mean No, I 687 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 2: didn't have I did not anticipate no, because I thought 688 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 2: I thought actors liked to show their skills, you know, 689 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 2: and this is a particular skill. And I don't want 690 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: just a projection of ego and a Hollywood portfolio. 691 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: I wanted soul. 692 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 2: And I knew that I had scheduled quite brilliantly. I 693 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 2: had Poor Newman on my schedule for like a couple 694 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 2: of weeks later, and I and I just said, well, 695 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 2: poor Newman did it, so basically bare face lie. But 696 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 2: I was a moment of survival also excuse myself, and 697 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,959 Speaker 2: he said he did. 698 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 3: I was like yeah. In my head, I was like, yeah, 699 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 3: he's going to. 700 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: Which I had to whispered so I can, and he 701 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 2: was like, all right, let's try. 702 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 3: And then he did it. 703 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 2: And so then the next one was Brian Gosling, and 704 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, Benicio del Toro did it. And then there 705 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 2: was Ed Harris and I was Ryan Gosling and Delatoria 706 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 2: I did it, you know, And then it went on 707 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 2: the journey and it was an amazing process, but it 708 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 2: did take three years. But I realized in the last 709 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 2: sort of few that I was doing. The last person 710 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 2: I did was Forest Whitaker, who had sort of chased 711 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 2: around the world trying to get him to do it, 712 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,479 Speaker 2: and finally we were both in. 713 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: This point was to kind of out of the bag. 714 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: No amazingly, no one, that's crazy, amazingly. 715 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 3: No one. 716 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: Sam's coming my picture way And. 717 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 2: I said to Forest Whittaker and I literally couldn't even 718 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 2: because it was film. 719 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 3: I showed it on film. 720 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 2: I couldn't get the film in the camera quick enough 721 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 2: he was already crying, right, he was a big, big, 722 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 2: sort of just absolutely bawling his eyes out in the 723 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 2: corner in the room. And I just can't do this anymore. 724 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 2: I'm finding this so emotionally challenging. And I got on 725 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 2: the plane a beautiful picture. I got on the plane home. 726 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 2: So why am I doing? 727 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 3: What is this? 728 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 2: And I realized that I was actually asking them to 729 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 2: grieve me having come through such a sort of hard 730 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 2: battle with cancer at that time, and that I was 731 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 2: just so sort of like right, done that, let's go, 732 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 2: you know, next chapter. And I hadn't ever processed that. 733 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 2: And I sometimes to say, you know, as an artist 734 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 2: or a filmmaker, sometimes it works three steps ahead of 735 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 2: you and you have to catch up to why or 736 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 2: what it's about. And in my realization of that, I 737 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 2: did actually then go great, done via other people, let's 738 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 2: move on, next chapter. 739 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, but no, it did. 740 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 2: It brought me into a place of, Okay, I think 741 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 2: I may have to reflect on what I've actually experienced 742 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 2: and not always do this thing of you know, dust 743 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 2: myself down and get up again. 744 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 3: It was just you to come full circle, to come 745 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 3: full circle. 746 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 2: It was so interesting and actually Paul Newman did do it. 747 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 2: But he said to me, he was so amazing. He said, 748 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 2: of all of everyone, turned up on his own in 749 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 2: a cab, we did it in this suite, and his 750 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 2: you know, his his tough agent said be quick, get 751 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 2: him in, get him out. 752 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 3: I was like, okay, okay. 753 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 2: And he arrived and I said, I said, I know 754 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 2: I have to be quick. He was like, you don't. 755 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 2: He said, why don't we just sit and have some tea? 756 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 2: Would you like some cake? Should we sit and just chat? 757 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 2: And I was like amazing. I sat, we had tea 758 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 2: and cake, and I said, okay, let's do the pictures. 759 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 2: And and then I look again. I looked through the 760 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 2: lens and I thought, holy Molly, it's poor Neiman. Whereas 761 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 2: before he was just this very sweet older guy. We 762 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: were having tea, and as soon as I put my 763 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 2: hand to the lens lens, I was like, fuck, it's 764 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 2: por new And again it was this and I literally 765 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 2: was going left looking at him and then right looking 766 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 2: through the lens, and it was incredible, the discrepancy between 767 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 2: the person sat there and then what shone through the lens. 768 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: And it's it's amazing because the camera when they say 769 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 2: you know, the camera, you know, loves you. 770 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 3: The camera, the lens just like ate him up. 771 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 2: It was like it was like he just was a 772 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 2: movie star in the kind of compounded glass by the time. 773 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 2: He just had this this beautiful, kind of translucent, sparkling stuff. 774 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,959 Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite pictures. But he did say 775 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 2: he was like, it was like, honey, no one wants 776 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,879 Speaker 2: to see me cry. 777 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 3: I was like, okay, good, you just look sad. 778 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 2: He's the only one that got away with And I 779 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 2: couldn't say, well, Venezio del Toro, did it respect? 780 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: Do you have anything like that coming up? No? 781 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 2: But I did feel like maybe now that I finished 782 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 2: this film, I could just sort of think about my. 783 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 3: Art world life. 784 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 2: But I kind of exited that career and it's really 785 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 2: hard I found to get back in. 786 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: Really, I'm like, wait, because they just move on without you. 787 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 3: Oh my beautiful pictures. 788 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: I am amazing my yes, I'll give you them. 789 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 790 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 2: It's so strange, I think because I was sort of, 791 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 2: you know, in my art world life with such a 792 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 2: sort of high profile art dealer that people are maybe nervous. 793 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 2: I don't know, I just or maybe I'm not as 794 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 2: good as I think. 795 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: I am. I don't know, Sam, you are as good 796 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: as you think you are. 797 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 2: If there's any art dealers out there, isn't it. 798 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: Seriously, I just want to say, having lunch with you today, 799 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: it is truly great. 800 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,959 Speaker 2: And like I said, it's the thing I was most 801 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 2: looking forward to. 802 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,839 Speaker 1: Crazy and your gift of giving this movie to us 803 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: and telling any story you know, back to Black is 804 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: it's an incredible movie and it's again you're welcome. It's 805 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: a story of a woman who is no longer with us, 806 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: and yet she's with us, and you've you told her 807 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: story with respect and love and generosity. And I can 808 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: tear and cry here again because that's your gift. So 809 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today too, and 810 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: well have we will break many breads. 811 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 3: To and I'll finish off the French. 812 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,399 Speaker 1: Yes, So now we're gonna Thanks for joining me. We'll 813 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: see you soon. Table for two with Bruce Bosi is 814 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: produced by iHeart Radio seven three seven Park and Airmail. 815 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Bruce Bosi and Nathan King. Our 816 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 1: supervising producer and editor is Dylan Fagan. Table for two 817 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: is researched and written by Jack Sullivan. Our sound engineers 818 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: are mel B Klein, Jesse Crainich and Jesse Funk. Our 819 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: music supervisor is Randall. Poster Our talent booking is done 820 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: by Jane Sarkin. Table for two. Social media manager is 821 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: Gracie Wiener. Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Scherer, Kevin Uvane, 822 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: Bobby Bauer, Alison Kanter, Graber, Barbara Jen, Jeff Klein, and 823 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: the staff at the Tower Bar in the world famous 824 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: Sunset Tower Hotel in Hollywood. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 825 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen 826 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.