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Speaker 1: Nice to meet you. This is a human being with

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Speaker 1: a beating heart just like yours, someone who cares about

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Speaker 1: you very much. Just a reminder that we are how

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Speaker 1: we treat each other. Today you chose animosity, and that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean you have to make the same choice tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: If you spend more time healing than hating, you will

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Speaker 1: find much magnificence.

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Speaker 2: Discrimination has been horrific in my life. It really devastates

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Speaker 2: me that I experience the most hatred for my own people.

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Speaker 2: But in the other it's given me a unique opportunity

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Speaker 2: that most people don't have. When you're outside of the world,

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Speaker 2: exiled from it, you get to look on it from

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Speaker 2: a distance. And what I notice as an outsider is

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Speaker 2: how much I love humans. Why would I deny the

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Speaker 2: world my beauty? And why would I deny myself my beauty?

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Speaker 2: How could I come and speak on a podcast about

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Speaker 2: healing and an unhealed version of myself? Yeah, we have

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Speaker 2: to live the things that we believe.

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Speaker 3: I'm rather Dablikia and on my pod a really good cry.

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Speaker 3: We embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space

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Speaker 3: for raw and filtered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow

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Speaker 3: you to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together.

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Speaker 3: But I'm so excited to have you here, and thank

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Speaker 3: you so much for being here, because whenever I've thought

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Speaker 3: about people I want on the podcast, it's been people

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Speaker 3: that I have either spend a lot of time with

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Speaker 3: or with you. I haven't spent that much time, but

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Speaker 3: the time that we have spent has just brought up

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Speaker 3: so much in my mind in terms of what I've learned,

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Speaker 3: but also given me such a different perspective that I've

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Speaker 3: carried with me, and I really wanted to share that,

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Speaker 3: hopefully with whoever ends up listening to this podcast. So

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Speaker 3: thank you for being here and for what you've done

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Speaker 3: for me in my life, whether you know it or not.

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Speaker 3: One thing that I wanted to ask you every time

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Speaker 3: I've been around you or seen you. Your elegant confidence

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Speaker 3: has kind of had me in awe because a lot

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Speaker 3: of people haven't lived the life that you've lived, but

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Speaker 3: you still show up as yourself every single day, and

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Speaker 3: so I wanted to start by asking you, because I

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Speaker 3: struggled with this, how have you gained this confidence in

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Speaker 3: your life?

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Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to say thank you for having me,

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Speaker 2: thank you for bringing color to the conversation. I feel

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Speaker 2: like the alternative was worse of repressing myself took such

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Speaker 2: a toll on my health holistically when I felt like

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Speaker 2: I was just a shadow of a person, not a

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Speaker 2: real person. And so I think the way I became

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Speaker 2: courageous is I really accounted for how painful it was

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Speaker 2: to live a lie, how empty I felt, how hollow

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Speaker 2: all of my interactions were, and I knew that I

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Speaker 2: never wanted to go back to that where I felt

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Speaker 2: like a hologram, not a human being. And so even

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Speaker 2: though it felt intimidating to be myself, it still was

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Speaker 2: less painful than the alternative. Yeah, but I think what

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Speaker 2: happens is that so many people are on autopilot of

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Speaker 2: that ghost self that they just think that that's that

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Speaker 2: misery is the only way to be well.

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Speaker 3: The easier option. Like I find that when you are

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Speaker 3: in a place in your life and if you've done

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Speaker 3: something for such a long time, even if it's the

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Speaker 3: thing that's negative for you, because that feels like comfort,

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Speaker 3: the alternate of becoming better or becoming a better version

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Speaker 3: of yourself or your authentic self ends up feeling like

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Speaker 3: a scarier option. And so you can live your whole

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Speaker 3: entire life trapped in this version of yourself that isn't

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Speaker 3: even you. But did you have any specific things that

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Speaker 3: you did that helped with your confidence, like going from

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Speaker 3: someone were you someone who was quite shy growing up,

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Speaker 3: so going from that to then becoming who you are now,

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Speaker 3: what were the tools and techniques and methods that you

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Speaker 3: use to bring yourself to this version of you.

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Speaker 2: I was so shy that I started to walk when

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Speaker 2: I went to hide in a cabinet at a family

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Speaker 2: dinner party. It's yeah. So it's funny because I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of people known me my entire life, have

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Speaker 2: seen so many eras, and I think people always want

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Speaker 2: to have this narrative that you've always been something. But

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Speaker 2: I think my life is a really great example of

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Speaker 2: you can totally transform. A practice for me that has

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Speaker 2: always helped me is writing, because I started writing when

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Speaker 2: I was maybe eleven or twelve, and at the time

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Speaker 2: I didn't think what I was doing this poetry. I

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Speaker 2: was just writing my feelings down I felt like, especially

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Speaker 2: growing up in an Indian household, no one was really

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Speaker 2: asking me how I was feeling emotionally. It was only

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Speaker 2: physically and so I didn't have a place to really

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Speaker 2: work through my emotions, and so I just started to write.

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Speaker 2: I would kind of write down what I was feeling,

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Speaker 2: and then I would share it online under a pseudonym, and.

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Speaker 3: Then what was the pseudoname Larry, which is very awkward Larry,

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Speaker 3: that love Larry.

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Speaker 2: And then people all across the world would say like, oh,

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Speaker 2: what you're writing resonates with me, or I feel the

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Speaker 2: same way, or I have the the same insecurities or

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Speaker 2: same doubts, and so it kind of felt like there

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Speaker 2: was an underworld kind of alongside this one where people

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Speaker 2: were honest and vulnerable and real, and that was only

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Speaker 2: available to me through art, and that art was the

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Speaker 2: place that we could go to actually be a freer

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Speaker 2: and more honest version of ourselves. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: true today. That's why we flocked to movie theaters because

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Speaker 2: what we see represented feels so real and palpable to us. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so writing for me has always allowed me to

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Speaker 2: take inventory of how I'm actually feeling, because I think

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Speaker 2: when people ask you how are you, you go into

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Speaker 2: that autopilot answer. But writing actually allows me to say,

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Speaker 2: this is what's actually surfacing inside of me. So the

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Speaker 2: more that I began to write, the more I began

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Speaker 2: to write myself into existence. I began to say, oh,

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Speaker 2: I actually didn't really like how I was treated at

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Speaker 2: one time, or I don't like the person I'm becoming.

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Speaker 2: Who do I want to become? And I could experiment

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Speaker 2: and there's less stakes when you're writing it down on

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Speaker 2: a page. So I kind of planned out who I

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Speaker 2: wanted to become.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: And I think what I was doing in Texas, where

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Speaker 2: I grew up was I like to think of it.

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Speaker 2: You know, in one story, it's like a story of

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Speaker 2: discrimination and bullying and dissociation. But in another story is

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Speaker 2: the story of dreaming. I just had a lot of

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Speaker 2: dreams and I would write them down, and then now

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Speaker 2: I'm lucky enough to be able to live there.

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Speaker 3: They always say that creatives an artists. You won't find

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Speaker 3: an artist, and I guess you won't wanly find a person,

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Speaker 3: but more so an artist that hasn't been through pain,

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Speaker 3: because so much beauty comes from it. But I love

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Speaker 3: what you said about writing because I found that solace

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Speaker 3: in writing too. But one thing that sometimes stopped me

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Speaker 3: is because everything is now for show, where when you're

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Speaker 3: writing online is for show. When you're taking pictures, it's

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Speaker 3: for show. Where you live in such a world of

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Speaker 3: show that sometimes I was finding myself if I hadn't

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Speaker 3: got put pen to paper for a while, I was

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Speaker 3: filtering myself from myself. And I used to get so

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Speaker 3: scared in those moments that I don't even want to

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Speaker 3: know who I am because I'm too scared of putting

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Speaker 3: pen to paper and seeing it for myself. I really

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Speaker 3: have to, you know, every time I take a time

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Speaker 3: away from doing it, I notice when I come back

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Speaker 3: to it. Because most of my other life is on show,

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Speaker 3: I fear what's going to come out on paper. So

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Speaker 3: sometimes what I've ended up doing is like writing and

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Speaker 3: just throwing it away, or writing and just burning it,

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Speaker 3: just so that I know that I'm releasing it with

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Speaker 3: no fear of him someone seeing it. But sometimes it's

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Speaker 3: you're trying to hide it from yourself because you don't

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Speaker 3: even want to see it yourself. You said that you

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Speaker 3: grew up in Texas. I always just want to know

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Speaker 3: a little bit about how that was coming into yourself,

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Speaker 3: where in a place that it can be quite difficult

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Speaker 3: to express your authenticity.

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Speaker 2: It was hard because on the one hand, I had

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Speaker 2: support from my community for the racism we were experiencing.

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Speaker 2: So I had people around me saying, Okay, what they're

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Speaker 2: saying about us is so silly. We're amazing and like

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Speaker 2: celebrating our culture, celebrating our difference. But then when it

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Speaker 2: came to generous ruality, I had to suffer in isolation

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Speaker 2: because if I told anyone that I was being bullied,

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Speaker 2: then that would confirm that I was in fact gay,

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Speaker 2: and so I didn't want to tell anyone what was happening.

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Speaker 2: I remember even once my mom got wind of the

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Speaker 2: fact that I was getting harassed in school, and she

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Speaker 2: in a car was like, Hey, is this happening to you?

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Speaker 2: And I felt so embarrassed. I didn't want her to

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Speaker 2: know that I was being bullied because I did, you

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Speaker 2: know how Indian families are. I knew that she would

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Speaker 2: get really upset, and then I didn't want to hurt

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Speaker 2: her feelings. So I wanted to protect her from the

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Speaker 2: fact that her child was being persecuted. And I feel

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Speaker 2: a lot of grief about that now because I know

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Speaker 2: that I know my parents, and I know that if

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Speaker 2: I had said, hey, this is happening to me they

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Speaker 2: would have done something about it. But I think from

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Speaker 2: a young age, I internalized this idea that I had

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Speaker 2: to rescue me, that I would have no support from

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Speaker 2: anyone else around me. So I had to become as

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Speaker 2: smart as possible. I had to work as hard as possible,

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Speaker 2: ID be exceptionally articulate and talented so that I could

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Speaker 2: get out of there. And I think the rewiring of

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Speaker 2: that as an adult is so hard, and so I

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Speaker 2: think that's what frustrates me is that our childhoods don't

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Speaker 2: just stay in our childhood. They cast a shadow for

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Speaker 2: the rest of our lives. So so many of the

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Speaker 2: trauma coping strategies I developed. Now my brain is like,

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Speaker 2: but these are the things that ELP do survive. And

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Speaker 2: then my adult self is like, but you don't need

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Speaker 2: to just survive anymore. You can thrive, you can move

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Speaker 2: beyond that. Maybe you can be mediocre at some things,

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Speaker 2: maybe you can like be really bad at some things,

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Speaker 2: and that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Ye, so many things, but it's okay, okay as something.

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Speaker 3: Believe you said your family, you almost underestimated how supportive

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Speaker 3: they could be. I do find in our culture we're

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Speaker 3: kind of I did the same thing. I underestimated how

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Speaker 3: open I could be with my parents from a young age,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's quite normal in our culture because

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Speaker 3: I find that with a lot of my friends who

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Speaker 3: grew up in you know, other type of religions, other

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Speaker 3: type of cultures, They'll be so open, they'll say the

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Speaker 3: randommest things to their parents, and they think they can

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Speaker 3: do that from a young age. They believe they can.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's the closeness, closed mindset that we

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Speaker 3: see growing up. It's not even what our parents tell us.

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Speaker 3: It's what we see them do with other people that

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Speaker 3: makes us think that they are part of that community

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Speaker 3: or have the same mindset. When I was like thinking

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Speaker 3: about boys in my family, when I wanted to date someone,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't tell them about it. When I was struggling,

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Speaker 3: whether it was academically or everything, just felt like you're right.

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Speaker 3: You feel like you have to deal with it yourself

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Speaker 3: because you don't want to be the failure or the

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Speaker 3: person that is changing what the expectations are of you

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Speaker 3: were your family, you said they were supportive and you

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Speaker 3: regret that and you have you know, how did you

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Speaker 3: weard it? You said, do you have remore? Yeah? How

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Speaker 3: were they when you started sharing it coming from the

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Speaker 3: culture that we're from, How was that for them and

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Speaker 3: for you?

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Speaker 2: I think the problem with being a byproduct of diaspora

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Speaker 2: is that often the only representation we have of our

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Speaker 2: brown parents is through white media. Yeah, and so there

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Speaker 2: was a filter with which I was constantly comparing their

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Speaker 2: love to the love of the people around me. And

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Speaker 2: because it looked different, I felt like it was absent.

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Speaker 2: So because my parents weren't as physically affectionate, yes, or

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Speaker 2: didn't say that they loved me, I believed that they

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Speaker 2: didn't love me because that's what my white peers were receiving.

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Speaker 2: And now as an adult, I'm like, actually, my parents

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Speaker 2: showed up in such a profound and durable and like

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Speaker 2: I mean, just like when I was sick, The kind

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Speaker 2: of devotion and care that I experienced was really unparalleled,

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Speaker 2: and I think a kind of care that I don't

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Speaker 2: even have the language for. And I feel like I

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Speaker 2: could spend the rest of my life trying to learn

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Speaker 2: that kind of ancestral wisdom that gets activated when someone's sick.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree with you. I feel the same way

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Speaker 3: about my parents. I was talking to someone else recently

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Speaker 3: and they said, oh, I realized my dad never said

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Speaker 3: the words I love you to me, And I thought

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Speaker 3: about it at that moment, and I never realized it

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Speaker 3: until that point. I was like, my dad has just

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Speaker 3: about started saying love you when I moved away, and

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Speaker 3: that for him was at the end of conversation. I

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Speaker 3: love you, I love you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But then I thought about, did I ever feel the

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Speaker 3: lack of love growing up? No. He was present, he

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Speaker 3: was attentive. He understood, you know, having two girls in

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Speaker 3: the family, coming from a dad who is raised in

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Speaker 3: the generation he was All he wanted was to understand

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Speaker 3: our emotions, to be there for us, to show up

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Speaker 3: as the provider, which is how he knew to love.

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Speaker 3: That was what he was taught to love, is to

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Speaker 3: provide for my family, to make sure I'm there to

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Speaker 3: show up. And also somewhat he was there for us

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Speaker 3: emotionally as because because he was just so he was

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Speaker 3: such a soft person. He always has been, and I

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Speaker 3: really appreciated that nature that he carried with him. And

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Speaker 3: I feel when I feel my parents love most is

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Speaker 3: when I've learnt so much from how they are as humans,

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Speaker 3: which means they've done a lot of work on themselves

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Speaker 3: to even give that to us. I think about the

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Speaker 3: generic love that we now see, and it's actually so

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Speaker 3: much more shallow because it's masked in words and performative,

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Speaker 3: exactly like external expressions versus the acts of service I think.

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Speaker 3: I think our parents' generation, where their way of showing

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Speaker 3: love is acts of service. Like you said, when we're unwell,

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Speaker 3: they will show up with every single herbal remedy that

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Speaker 3: they know from their grandparents. They will give up everything

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Speaker 3: to make us food and create that environment for us,

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Speaker 3: whereas I don't think we have that in us anymore

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Speaker 3: to even give or experience that with other people.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm really trying to learn. Yeah, I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's frustrating to me often that our only definition

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Speaker 2: of culture is also very superficial. It's kind of surface,

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Speaker 2: and for me, culture is actually like a deeper wisdom.

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Speaker 2: It's a way of observing the world and observing each other.

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Speaker 2: And especially with the with the passing of my Utima,

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Speaker 2: my grandmother a few months ago, one of the ways

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Speaker 2: that I'm processing that grief is really like, how do

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Speaker 2: I care in the way that she cared for me?

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Speaker 3: What do I carry you on? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Carry on that legacy, because when we talk about through

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Speaker 2: migration losing our culture, I think part of what we're

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Speaker 2: losing also is that sense of care. And I don't

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Speaker 2: want to say selflessness, but that sense of devotion. Is

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Speaker 2: the reason I'm alive is that I've had so many

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Speaker 2: caregivers in my life who invested so much in me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I can't even imagine what it was like

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Speaker 2: for my parents when I came home and I said,

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Speaker 2: don't speak our local languages to me. I don't like that.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to go to the temple. I want

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Speaker 2: to be just like my peers. I'm embarrassed. I remember

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Speaker 2: I got into a fight with my nonues where I said,

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Speaker 2: don't wear a sorry in public when you're going to school,

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Speaker 2: because then people will look at us. The kind of

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Speaker 2: care it takes to look at your child that's become

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Speaker 2: a weapon against everything you are, and to still say

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Speaker 2: that you love that child and to feed them. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's taught me so much about compassion, because I think

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Speaker 2: my parents knew this isn't you. This is your trauma,

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Speaker 2: this is your fear, this is your anxiety, this is

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Speaker 2: your insecurity, and the way that you were going to

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Speaker 2: school you out of that is by loving you harder

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Speaker 2: and showing you that the things that you're running away

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Speaker 2: from are actually the things that you need to be

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Speaker 2: running toward. And so it's very strange, I think becoming

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Speaker 2: an adult because I revisit so many foundational scenes that

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Speaker 2: I was very angry at my parents about and I'm like, actually,

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Speaker 2: they were in the right, I know, and they saw

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Speaker 2: something I couldn't see at the time.

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Speaker 3: I think about that all the time. I was just

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Speaker 3: doing a voiceover for one of my videos and it

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Speaker 3: was something I was reflecting on when I was back

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Speaker 3: in London. My mom, from a really young age, has

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Speaker 3: made me green juice in the morning. I should make

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Speaker 3: carrot juice, should make fresh juice in the morning. She

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Speaker 3: would have to she would full time work, but she

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Speaker 3: still had time in the morning to make me fresh juices,

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Speaker 3: take out my vitamins, still do her meditation and prayer

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Speaker 3: and then work full time, come home from work, make

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Speaker 3: me a full fresh meal, help me with my homework.

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Speaker 3: The amount of things that she did for me. And

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Speaker 3: I was saying that I used to take that juice

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Speaker 3: and pour it into the bush outside and I would

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Speaker 3: take the vitamins, and I would put them into the

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Speaker 3: bush outside before I take it with me.

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Speaker 2: That bush must be so heal.

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Speaker 3: That bush was vibrant. Okay, she was thriving. But now

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Speaker 3: I go back and my Mum's still making these juices

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Speaker 3: for me. And now I'm buying myself green juice and

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Speaker 3: making it and I'm taking my vitamins for myself. And

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Speaker 3: again I just I feel remorseful in the same way

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Speaker 3: where I'm like, Wow, she was pouring so much into

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Speaker 3: me for my health foundations, like she was building my

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Speaker 3: health for me from such a young age, and I

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Speaker 3: just did not appreciate it. That remorse is actually I

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Speaker 3: feel a good part of our life because without remorse,

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Speaker 3: you don't like have that desire to get deeper into

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Speaker 3: those things. Right Like I know now in my adulthood,

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Speaker 3: I cherish the time that I spend with them. My

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Speaker 3: grandma cherish the time that I spend with her. And

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Speaker 3: it's partly because I've moved away, but also you do

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Speaker 3: feel the sense of time more when you grow up,

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Speaker 3: because you feel it in yourself. When you're young, you

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Speaker 3: feel like you know death's never going to hit you.

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Speaker 3: But as soon as you get to a certain age.

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Speaker 3: I mean for some people it's way later on, but

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Speaker 3: for me, especially after you know, learning a bit more

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Speaker 3: about spirituality and the soul and what it means, I

353
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Speaker 3: do feel death every single day, like I think about

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Speaker 3: it every day with my family. But that makes my

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Speaker 3: relationship with them so much better and so much deeper.

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Speaker 3: And I know you mentioned your grandma, and I actually

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Speaker 3: had picked out something that you had written about her,

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Speaker 3: and I just it brought tears to my eyes. I

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Speaker 3: probably will when I say again, but I would just

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Speaker 3: like to share it with with people, if you don't mind.

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Speaker 3: I myself, By the way, I've lost three grandparents and

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Speaker 3: I've got one grand parent left who I'm probably the

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Speaker 3: closest to than I am of you know, any of

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Speaker 3: them that had lived. She's ninety now, and you've written

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Speaker 3: a post where you said she loves me in a

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Speaker 3: language I can't even speak. All of me, Rainbow hair,

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Speaker 3: rainbow life, with such rigor and devotion. We sit around

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Speaker 3: in the living room, do nothing together, and that's why

369
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Speaker 3: I'm going to miss most then nothing that felt like everything. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: well they are, but that's so beautiful and I completely

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Speaker 3: agree because I think about that with my grandma. I'm

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Speaker 3: a ugly cry by the way, just take all it.

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Speaker 3: But I think about that every single time I think

374
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Speaker 3: about my grandma, and I'm like, wow, those moments that

375
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Speaker 3: you feel their love, it's it's like it can be.

376
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Speaker 3: And that's what's so beautiful and pure about that generation

377
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Speaker 3: that they can do a whole lot of nothing and

378
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Speaker 3: you can just be in their presence and you feel

379
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Speaker 3: their love like the hugs that you get from that generation.

380
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Speaker 3: And because of how in my eyes, how much more

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Speaker 3: pure they wear in mind, very simple, like their minds

382
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 3: were so simple, what their desires were were very simplistic

383
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Speaker 3: compared to what we will have now. And I think

384
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,159
Speaker 3: that simplicity comes through in simplicity of heart. And you

385
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 3: really feel that whenever people would meet my grandma, they

386
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,640
Speaker 3: feel this energy about her that you don't feel much anymore.

387
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Speaker 3: And I think that that really comes that is so

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Speaker 3: precious to have in your life, and it's so beautiful

389
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Speaker 3: that you even got to have that relationship with your

390
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Speaker 3: grandparents and to feel.

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Speaker 2: So lucky, yeah, to have been accepted by eventually all

392
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Speaker 2: three of my living grandparents who are alive, no are

393
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Speaker 2: no longer, It doesn't matter if the world doesn't accept me.

394
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Speaker 2: Because I had that kind of foundational acceptance. My Echama,

395
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Speaker 2: who just passed, would take me to the markets all

396
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 2: and through short and Caerala where we're from, and would say, oh,

397
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Speaker 2: you should try on these ear rings. You should try

398
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,439
Speaker 2: on these Bengals. Haha, you're more feminine than your sister.

399
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 2: You look amazing. And it would come to my shows

400
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 2: in Kerala and say that she heard the voice of

401
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 2: God in me, even when I was on stage wearing

402
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 2: a dress. And it was never about I accept you.

403
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,199
Speaker 2: Here are the pronouns I'm using. It was something so

404
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 2: much deeper than that, like a profound recognition of me

405
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 2: as a human and a respect And I feel so

406
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 2: lucky and so grateful, and that gratitude, I think actually

407
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: fuels me to do this work of learning how to

408
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: care like they cared, because I feel like, you know,

409
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 2: with our generation and social media, we've become so we

410
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 2: see human beings as content and we reduce the like

411
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 2: vast unknowability the universe of one another into a series

412
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 2: of easily identifiable, decipherable metrics, and we don't have slow

413
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 2: time together. And what I love about ending every year

414
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Speaker 2: in Caerala, which was always my ritual is it was

415
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 2: a decompression slow time. It would just be days on

416
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 2: end of just like eating and lounging the best and

417
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 2: always feeling like I was having fun, not feeling like

418
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: I had to be at a zillion things or have

419
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 2: a fully passed schedule, just kind of zooming into it.

420
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Speaker 2: And so now what I'm really trying to do is

421
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 2: to bring that appreciation for slowness, for deliberate time, for

422
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: actual encounter and witness rather than just kind of superficial embrace.

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Speaker 3: And I think so you know, social media makes you

424
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 3: feel like you know people and that you see people

425
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 3: and interact with them more than you do, so you

426
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 3: almost and I even think about that with my close friends,

427
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 3: where I think I'm updated in their life and I'm

428
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 3: connected to them because I'm seeing my mind is seeing them,

429
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,120
Speaker 3: so my mind's forgetting that I've only experienced them through

430
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:58,360
Speaker 3: this vessel versus having this human interaction with them. And

431
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 3: you know, when you were saying that thing about carrying

432
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Speaker 3: the care that she had on, I think that is

433
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 3: such a beautiful legacy to carry with you. I've seen

434
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 3: that in my mum recently, and I've well not seen

435
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 3: in my mum recently. I've noticed it in my mum recently.

436
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 3: She's had it her whole life, but she has this

437
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 3: incredible desire to serve the elderly in our community, to

438
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 3: the point where a lot of my grandma's friends will

439
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: call her before they call their own children to help,

440
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 3: but not even in and by the way, no one's watching.

441
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: And that's what I love about, to actually seek care

442
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 3: where she is making you know those people, oh yeah,

443
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,239
Speaker 3: I'll call that person for you know, my mom is

444
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 3: calling up every single person to find a care for

445
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 3: someone that she hardly knows. She's going out of her

446
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: way to someone's broken their leg in the community. She's

447
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 3: making food for them every single day. She's calling the

448
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 3: elderly that have lost their spouses and she's calling them

449
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 3: every day to check in on them because she knows

450
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 3: that that's the only phone call that they're going to get.

451
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 3: And every time I see her going, in my eyes,

452
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 3: out of her way, which is what it seems like

453
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 3: in MAA so much effort put in for people that

454
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: you don't even know, Mum, and I'm like, wow, that's

455
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 3: just the capacity that she has to love and care,

456
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: which is so lost because for me, I'm learning that

457
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 3: now and wanting to carry it on because I see

458
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: it in her. But that's been something I'm having to learn,

459
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 3: Whereas for her it's so natural because she grew up

460
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: in a community in Uganda where people did that for

461
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 3: each other, in Glasgow, where people did that for each

462
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 3: other even when she was a refugee. And I think

463
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: that in this day and age, we have, whether it

464
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 3: is physical or emotional, gates up. We don't necessarily go

465
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 3: to our neighbors physically to even ask for things. We

466
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 3: don't know who they are, and we've lost this ability

467
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 3: to actually create what deep community means, whether it is

468
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 3: acts of service or emotionally being there for people. And

469
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: I really think that there are a few people left

470
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 3: like that, so to carry that on and I have

471
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 3: to learn how to carry that on it is it

472
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 3: makes such a difference because these people are so touched

473
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 3: by what she does for them.

474
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: I believe that love is an infinite resource. Yeah, And

475
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: I believe that love is not something we do, it's

476
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: something that we are. And that often doesn't make sense

477
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: to people who are viewing it from a sort of

478
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: modern secular equation. They're like, what do you mean, there's

479
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 2: a limited amount of time, there's a limitment of resources.

480
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: But I want us to actually have a deeper conversation,

481
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 2: which is like when we are compassionate to others, that

482
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: is also an extension of compassion to the cell. I

483
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: think true compassion actually abolishes separation of the self and

484
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: the other because it's about creating a network of care

485
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: so that when I'm helping you, I know that when

486
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: I'm suffering, exactly, I've built that kind of relationship and

487
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: it's reciprocal. And it also I have no space in

488
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 2: me for toxicity. And when I fill my heart with compassion,

489
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: that ultimately creates a better reservoir of peace and serenity

490
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: inside of me. And so what I also learned from

491
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: my grandparents is that care is not just about the

492
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: other person. It's also about the cultivation of a good

493
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: life in yourself, of gratitude and charm. My Utchama giggled

494
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: until the end of her light. She had so much

495
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: delight and amusement. She loved her mocktails and cocktail. She

496
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: had so many little trinkets that would inspire so much

497
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 2: joy and wonder in her. There was almost like a

498
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: child like awe and then I felt annoyed because I

499
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: was like, why do we have to call that Childlike,

500
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: why do we have to see maturity as a departure

501
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 2: from that wonder? What if actually the preservation of wonder

502
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: is the most mature thing we could do.

503
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, just the way that you

504
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 3: speak just mesmerizes me. You are just so eloquent, and

505
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: the things that you say is almost you know what

506
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 3: it is. You understand your heart so well your words

507
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 3: are able to express it. And I think sometimes when

508
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 3: I think about the disconnect where I hear what someone says,

509
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,719
Speaker 3: I'm like, I feel that, but I wouldn't have been

510
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 3: able to say it in that way. And I do

511
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 3: see that as like you said, it's not poetry. It's

512
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: actually just that strong connection that you have built, the

513
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: clarity that you have built between your own voice and

514
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 3: what comes out of your mouth. So I just wanted

515
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: to say that. First of all, I think it's incredible

516
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 3: the work that you've done to get there. But also

517
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 3: what you said about you've been saying all the things

518
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: that you got from your grandparents, and when you said

519
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: your parents were just unlimitedly compassionate, even when you weren't

520
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: That's one thing I absolutely love about you, because every

521
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: single time you post things that people have said, which

522
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: by the way, you get so much of, and it

523
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: upsets it upsets me to my care when I see that,

524
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: and then I see a response. And there was one

525
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 3: that you said that I wrote down, and you really

526
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 3: live by the practice of I'm going to give and

527
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: pour out so much compassion. But to have that you

528
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 3: have to natural it in yourself. You can only give

529
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 3: what you have within you, and you must have had

530
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: to do so much to get to that point. There

531
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: was one, I think the comment that someone had written

532
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 3: to you. Maybe it was like some puke faces or something,

533
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: and you rode back saying, Hi, friend, nice to meet you.

534
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: This is a human being with a beating heart just

535
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: like yours, someone who cares about you very much. Just

536
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 3: a reminder that we are how we treat each other.

537
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: Today you chose animosity, and that doesn't mean you have

538
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 3: to make the same choice tomorrow. I believe in your

539
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: capacity for transformation. If you spend more time healing than hating,

540
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 3: you'll find much magnificence in the places where malice once fested.

541
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 3: The world will feel so much more lush and wondrous.

542
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: I promise if I received that and I had just

543
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: sent you some sick faces, i'ld be rethinking my whole

544
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 3: entire being, but from the most beautiful place. Because it's true,

545
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 3: you may be angry today, but that's not the same

546
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 3: choice you have to make tomorrow. But you have chosen

547
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 3: to take whatever hate has come your way and pour

548
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 3: love back into the world. And that takes a lot.

549
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 3: So how do you how have you built this compassionate nature?

550
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: Because it's okay, it's one thing saying it, but I

551
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: see you doing it. So there's one thing in theoretical,

552
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 3: But then to put it into practice, where do you

553
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: take the anger that you get and how do you

554
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: turn it back into what you give out?

555
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: And one story. Discrimination has been horrific in my life,

556
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: and of course, but in the other it's given me

557
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 2: a unique opportunity that most people don't have. When you're

558
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: outside of the world, exiled from it, you get to

559
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: look on it from a distance. And what I notice

560
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 2: as an outsider is how much I love humans, how

561
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: much I miss intimacy, how much I want to be

562
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: a part of that. And the same way in which

563
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: I think people are coasting on autopilot. I think people

564
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: take advantage so many things that I can't. And so

565
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: therefore there's a preciousness to being able to walk outside

566
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: that I have reference for, yes, because that's not a

567
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: given for me. There's a preciousness for able to be

568
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: here another day, because that's not a given for me.

569
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: And so what that's meant is that I treasure things

570
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: so much and I remember that we're all going to die,

571
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: to your point, and I think that's the most beautiful thing,

572
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: not devastating, because that means that all of that hatred

573
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: is a distraction from that fundamental truth. The truth is

574
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: every single person is going to die. That's the only

575
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: given thing that we know. And knowing that, are you

576
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: going to waste your time hating me when you could

577
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: actually spend your time cultivating a garden, throwing green juice

578
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: at a bush. There's so many more interesting things to

579
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: spend your time doing. So what that actually shows is

580
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: you don't believe that your life is sacred and precious,

581
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: and you believe that your own time is worth wasting.

582
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: That inspires mercy in me, because I believe that your

583
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: life is precious. I believe that you should cultivate goodness

584
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: in you because you're going to die. So once you

585
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: remember the stakes of that, which is that we are

586
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: all human beings and we're all trying to run away

587
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: from that fact. I mean, think about it. When we

588
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: look at the brain, the decision making part of our

589
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: brain is actually quite small in comparison to the emotional part.

590
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: And yet the language we have for the emotional part

591
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: of the brain is primitive or reptilian, when in fact,

592
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: that's the most human part. What's so strange about humans

593
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: is we're continually embarrassed that we're humans. And I actually

594
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: love that I'm human, which means I love that I'm fallible.

595
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: I love that I'm changing, I love that I'm becoming.

596
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: I love that I don't know. I love that I'm ignorant.

597
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,479
Speaker 2: And so when I learn to love myself as a human,

598
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: now I have so much love unlocked for other humans.

599
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: So it might seem counterintuitive to people of how could

600
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: you love people who hate you? But it's not counterintuitive

601
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: when you remember that the only way you're able to

602
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: hate other people is when you hate yourself.

603
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: That's so true. And I you know, whenever I think

604
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: about the online hate that happens, I and even when

605
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 3: I reflect it, reflect on it to myself in my

606
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: own way that I live my life. Whenever I see someone,

607
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: if I'm in a place where I don't feel confident

608
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: about myself, Let's say, and I see someone who unapologetically

609
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: is living and being who they are, it irks something

610
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: in me, Like it makes me feel uncomfortable. And it's

611
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 3: not because they're living their life. It's because of what

612
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: it is reflecting in me. And so what do you feel?

613
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: Is like, there is so much hate for people. There

614
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: are so many people who cannot handle others expressing themselves

615
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 3: fully even though it has nothing to do with them.

616
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: Where do you think that roots from? Four people? Where

617
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 3: they are someone uncomfortable with someone else's pure expression of themselves.

618
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: It has to do with their abbreviated joy. The truth

619
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: is we're born free and we are having the time

620
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 2: of our lives, and then we get shamed and we're

621
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: told that you have to be a certain way in

622
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: order to be worthy of love. And unfortunately that often

623
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: happens in the most intimate arena our parents, our best friends,

624
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: our lovers, who tell us that we have to minimize ourselves,

625
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: hide ourselves, betray ourselves, in order to belong. And that

626
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: happens when you're a kid, so it rewires your entire

627
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: brain into thinking that if you actually express your true

628
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: version of yourself, you'll be punished for it. And that's

629
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: why I have compassion because I was lucky. I grew

630
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: up in a family that allowed me to grow and

631
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: change and become. That's the most profound privilege I'll ever

632
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: have in my life. The foundational security of knowing as

633
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: a young person that my parents would have my back

634
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: if I changed my mind about who I was. That's amazing.

635
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: And so when I see a lot of people who

636
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: are resentful or angry or bitter in response to my appearance,

637
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: I know that there's a grief surfacing there. And the

638
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: truth is that often and anger is a secondary emotion

639
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: that's an easier touchtone for people than feeling pain. So true,

640
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: and there are very few spaces, especially in Western culture,

641
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: for lamentation. There's just spaces for desensitization. No one is

642
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: actually allowed to take off work when someone in their

643
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: life dies. There's no place or ritual that you go

644
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: when you have a heartbreak. You're just expected to bounce back,

645
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: bounce back, bounce back, and I don't think that that works.

646
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: That's not how humans work. We have to be able

647
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: to feel. So what happens when we don't feel is

648
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: that gets built up as resentment. And so what's happening

649
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: right now I think, especially around LGBTQ rights in this country,

650
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: is a lot of people have unprocessed grief and I

651
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: become a mirror for them. Yeah, and it's so much

652
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: easier to demonize me than it is to sit with

653
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: their own grief and heartbreak.

654
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: Definitely.

655
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: There's this quote that I think of where it says,

656
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 3: you always feel like an angel when you're sitting next

657
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: to the devil, when you're standing there to the devil.

658
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 3: And it's not that that person is the devil, but

659
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: when you are able to demonize everybody around you, when

660
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 3: you're able to pick faults in every single person that

661
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: you see, you'll always feel good about yourself because if

662
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: your mind is constantly seeing their flaws, I've always feel

663
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 3: great about myself. And I think that's what a lot

664
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 3: of us do, or a lot of people do, when

665
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: they are not quite ready to internalize and see their

666
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 3: own It's easier being busy looking at everybody else's It's

667
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: easier looking at everybody else's what they perceive as being

668
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: their negatives or finding those little things, because that work

669
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 3: that has to be done for yourself is far more

670
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: difficult than, or it seems more difficult than it is

671
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: to pick at someone else.

672
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: I appreciate it earlier how you acknowledge the amount of

673
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 2: work it takes to be able to get to compassion,

674
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: because I also feel like one of the negative side

675
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 2: effects of social media is that people can like share

676
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: memes and quotes, but that's not the same as doing

677
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: the practice. Yes, and one of the things I've always

678
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: respected about you is your commitment to practice. And ritual

679
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: practice is the hardest thing. And for me, a contemplative

680
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: practice that could be meditation, it could be writing, it

681
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: could be singing. A contemplative practice actually allows me to

682
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: recognize when I'm running on autopilot, even though I didn't

683
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: know I was. I have to separate myself from the

684
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 2: thing to be able to observe it from afar. And

685
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: the more that I've invested into my practice, the more

686
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: that I've realized often the most incredible, awe inspiring, earth

687
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: shattering work is the most quiet and visible and delicate

688
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 2: and So the problem once again with social media is

689
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: that it glorifies visibility is the metric of progress, when

690
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: in fact, spiritual transformation will often just bubble and froth,

691
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 2: not explode.

692
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I with my time that I spend in

693
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 3: my meditation. The reason it allows me to be more

694
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 3: compassionate with other people or not even have the time

695
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 3: to think about their flows is because it brings to

696
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 3: surface so much of my own that and that's what

697
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: I love about the practice is it doesn't mean that

698
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: I dislike myself for it, But what it does is

699
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 3: it helps me come to terms with who I am

700
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: and see the things that I have to work on.

701
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 3: And if I'm busy working on those things, one it

702
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: makes me think, well, if I have all of this

703
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 3: going on in me, how can I even judge anybody else?

704
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 3: I have all these things I'm working on. Their weeds

705
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 3: may look a little bit different, and I may not

706
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 3: recognize them because I may not see them in myself,

707
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: But weeds are weeds. We all have weeds in some

708
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: form in some sense. They may look beautiful, they may

709
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 3: seem like they're flowers, but every single person has them.

710
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: And so what that reflective practice as you put it

711
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 3: does for me is it puts a mirror for myself,

712
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 3: and so it stops me from even judging people. And

713
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 3: I noticed, because you know, practices as they do mine

714
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 3: ebbs and flows. There's so many times where I am

715
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: so distracted during my practice, but I'll still try and

716
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 3: show up. There's so many times where my practice for

717
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 3: months and months is just half asked and I'm just

718
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: not giving it my all. But I see that. Then

719
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 3: I become more jugmental. Then I'm picking up other people more.

720
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 3: Then I'm busying myself in other people's gossip, and that

721
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 3: becomes attractive to me. And I think as soon as

722
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: the negatives about people, that's been a red flag for myself.

723
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 3: As soon as conversations where there is gossip or negativity

724
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 3: or I'm seeing a little bit of spice put into

725
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: things and I'm enjoying it. As soon as that becomes

726
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: attractive to me, that's a sign for me that things

727
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 3: are not working the way they're supposed to for myself.

728
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: And so that's always right because it's so easy. Gossip

729
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 3: is spoken about more than goodness, is talking about other

730
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 3: people with people is spoken about more than these type

731
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 3: of conversations are and so a natural tendency can be

732
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 3: to have those that have that be the nectar and

733
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: the juice that we live off. But I've noticed that

734
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: as the red flag in myself for Wheen, and that

735
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 3: practice is not I'm obviously not doing my practice the

736
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: way that I'm supposed to.

737
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: That's incredible that you have that level of self awareness.

738
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: I think that's something I'm trying to cultivate in me.

739
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: It's hard because I think for so much of my

740
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: life and it's a balancing act, right, I would have

741
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: to point fingers at a society that neglected me and

742
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: say it's unfair. I mean, in the midst of this conversation,

743
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: there are over seven hundred pieces of anti ALGBUTIQ legislation

744
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: in this country and in the UK, where we both

745
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: have connections. There's just an accelerated increase in anti transdiscrimination,

746
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: and I think it's important to condemn things that are

747
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: happening societally. But the more that I've focused on my

748
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 2: healing journey, I've had to really take personal responsibility and

749
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: accept I might not be responsible for my trauma, but

750
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 2: I am responsible for my own healing, and so what

751
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: it means to actually take personal responsibility is so hard

752
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: for me when for so long I've felt like I

753
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: was unable to express my anger and my rage at

754
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: the system that failed me. But now I think, especially

755
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: in my thirties, I'm having to really take account. If

756
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to sleep stressed out, I have to take responsibility.

757
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: I have to take responsibility for when I'm not sleeping.

758
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 2: I have to take responsibility for when I'm just scrolling online,

759
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: which can often feel like a form of digital self mutilation.

760
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: I have to take responsibility to unplug and say, how

761
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,479
Speaker 2: am I treating myself with respect? It is one thing

762
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 2: to say that this society is disrespectful to me. It's

763
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 2: a deeper thing to be disrespectful to ourselves. So now

764
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: I'm trying really hard to show up with goodness and

765
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: dignity to myself, which is a compassion practice that is

766
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 2: often harder for me than compassion for the other because,

767
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 2: on the one hand, yes, the care that we grew

768
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 2: up with was amazing, and it was gendered. And that's

769
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: why I was nervous about that word self sacrifice earlier,

770
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: because I've seen a lot of Indian women in my

771
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: life who spent so much time uplifting men and never

772
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: demanded any of that reciprocity right, and completely neglected their

773
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 2: own dreams, aspirations, wonder and wisdom to caretake for others.

774
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: So the care that I want is awe inspiring, but

775
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: it also demands reciprocity. Otherwise it's not true compassion. And

776
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: so I feel like also when people hear compassion, they

777
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 2: still think it's selfless. That's not compassion. And that's the

778
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: work I'm really trying to do now is to extend

779
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: the same due diligence that I have to my perpetrators

780
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 2: of harassment to myself, to understand that I can often

781
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: be a perpetrator of harassment to myself when I look

782
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: in the mirror and I say, your life would be

783
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: so much easier if you just modified this one thing.

784
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: But really, well, you know.

785
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: I always think about how there's so much that good.

786
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: I love learning so much from what you share about

787
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 3: what's happening in the world, And you know, I think

788
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: about every single time there's a woman that is attacked

789
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: on the street, or you know, how unsafe the world

790
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 3: is becoming for women, always has been, but you know,

791
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 3: that's always highlighted. And then I see the things that

792
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 3: you share about and I'm like, there's one thing for

793
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: women to feel unsafe on the street, but then there's

794
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 3: a whole other part which people don't even think about.

795
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 3: And I really, you know, for for the way, for you,

796
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: when you're walking out onto the street, like you said,

797
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 3: you don't even know whether you're gonna get attacked. You

798
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 3: don't know whether someone's gonna say things to you. There

799
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: is always, and this isn't me over exaggerating, there is

800
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 3: a fear every single time you walk out of your

801
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: house for death or for damage and emotionally or physically.

802
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 3: And I one just want to say, I appreciate so

803
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: much that you still, despite what you have to endure

804
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 3: when you walk out of your house, you still do

805
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: that because there are people who won't walk out their

806
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: house when they've got a spot on their face. No really,

807
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 3: they just they won't because they're worried about what people.

808
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 3: A guess say, Well, you probably, I'm sure you get

809
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 3: looked at differently. You get people look and again it

810
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 3: may be in a maze because you have an incredible

811
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 3: addresser and the way that you carry yourself as phenomenal.

812
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 3: But a lot of the time it's because you are

813
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: something unfamiliar for many people. They were just hide. It's

814
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 3: so easy to become a recluse in someone who doesn't

815
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 3: even want to step out into the world when it's

816
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 3: so much hate is out there. How have you taken

817
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,479
Speaker 3: away that fear of death and fear of being hurt

818
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: which you have been in the past and still managed

819
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 3: to continue to do that? Because I think that's beautiful

820
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: for anybody to learn for themselves.

821
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: Why would I deny the world my beauty?

822
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 3: Yes?

823
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: Why would you?

824
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 3: Yeah?

825
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 2: And why would I deny myself my beauty? Because when

826
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 2: I am here in this form, it is how I'm

827
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 2: able to speak the truth. How could I come and

828
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: speak on a podcast about healing and an unhealed version

829
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 2: of myne We have to live the things that we believe.

830
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: I don't believe that heaven is something that will happen

831
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 2: when I die. I think heaven is something I can

832
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: create right now. Heaven is my contemplative practice. I want

833
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: every day to feel like paradise. I'm not going to

834
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: wait for that, so then when that's my criteria, I

835
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: have no choice but to gift the world my fullness.

836
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: And I know that I was brought here to be

837
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: a light. I have a firm sense that that is

838
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: my purpose on earth. From my youngest memories, I knew

839
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 2: that I wanted to share my art with the world.

840
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: I used to dance to the latest Bollywood trucks at

841
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: every single Indian dinner, body wearing my mom's chunnees, dancing around.

842
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a performer. I wanted to dazzle

843
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: and share. That's who I am. It's like telling the

844
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: sky not to be blue. It's like telling the wind

845
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: to stay still. You can't invisibilize what I'm here to do.

846
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: And it's not actually about overcoming fear. I still have

847
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: a fear of all those things. That's what it means

848
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: to be human is to be fearful. But what I

849
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: now have is ritual and practice around fear. So fear knocks,

850
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: I say, hey, fear, let me accessorize you. I dress

851
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 2: up fear. I put it in a really cute heel.

852
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: I walk outside with fear as my best friend. It's there,

853
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 2: I greet it. I think the reason fear often becomes

854
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: the author of our lives is because we're constantly banishing it,

855
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 2: but when we actually include it, that's what I really

856
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 2: believe in everything I'm trying to do in the work

857
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: is radical inclusion. Radical inclusion means looking at every emotion

858
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 2: and saying thank you, so both my pride and my shame,

859
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: thanks for being here, my hatred and my love. Great

860
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 2: you all have something to say here. And once we

861
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 2: begin to incorporate even all the things that we judge

862
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: in other people, because those are often indications of things

863
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: we are unresolved in ourselves. Once I began to radically

864
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: include all parts of myself, then fear no longer has

865
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: a stranglehold on me. Because fear is one voice of

866
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 2: many voices. So when I'm going outside, fear says you're

867
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,479
Speaker 2: going to get attacked. But now magnificence another voice that's

868
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: louder because I've nurtured and exercised. It says, or someone's

869
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: going to say, great shoes. And then I just choose

870
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 2: to believe that narrative. I think where I'm trying to

871
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: get better now is on setbacks. So there are days where,

872
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: like you said, the practice disintegrades. You go to your

873
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 2: most base and crude version of yourself. And I feel

874
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 2: like I'm in that right now. And I felt a

875
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: little trepidation. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna

876
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: be on camera. Am I ready? I've been feeling a

877
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: lot of grief this week, a lot of sorrow this week.

878
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it's physical exhaustion. I'm in

879
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: the middle of a tour where I'm getting like two

880
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: to three hours of sleep at night, so it's just accumulates.

881
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 2: But I think it's also just like a deeper kind

882
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 2: of a sense of frustration. Why do I have to

883
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: work so hard? Why do I have to be so

884
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 2: hard working in order to get the bare minimum? And

885
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: it feels unfair. And so what I'm now having to

886
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: really do is recognize instead of saying, Okay, these things

887
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: are not part of my highest cell, because that's what

888
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: I often do is I shame myself for having those feelings.

889
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: I have to sit in those feelings and say they

890
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: are looking for a witness too, and that often cares

891
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: just witness. So even the things that are thoughts that

892
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: feel most embarrassing or silly or superficial or petty, we

893
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: can't just dismiss them because they don't go away. You

894
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: have to actually witness the pettiness, don't act out of

895
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 2: that place. But witness it, hold it, feel that grief.

896
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: And that's so hard for me because sometimes I fear

897
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 2: that if I feel the fullest extent of my grief,

898
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: I won't be able to bounce back. But then I'm like,

899
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 2: every time I do, it shortens.

900
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 3: Yes, I completely agree. I always I think in the

901
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: same way, and I have had to train myself to

902
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 3: try and do that where and I think, again, I

903
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 3: keep saying part of our culture, but it is. I mean,

904
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 3: it's part of human culture, but also a lot of

905
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 3: our culture. I think about with my parents of you know,

906
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 3: they would hide when they were crying, they wouldn't show

907
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: when they were feeling upset, And so get you get

908
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 3: trained from a very young age to say these are

909
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: the emotions that are okay to show, and these are

910
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 3: the emotions that are not. And it doesn't go away

911
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 3: because every single thing that you feel, every single thing

912
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 3: that gets put through your senses, leaves impressions in your

913
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 3: heart and in your mind. Like there's the words some

914
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 3: scaa it means impression and as I love that word

915
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 3: so much because it also translates to translates to footprints,

916
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 3: and that's exactly what happens every single emotion. Every single

917
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 3: experience we have creates footprints, some deeper than others. What

918
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 3: we I then end up doing is trying to fill it,

919
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: fill that imprint out with something else, with another emotion

920
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: that masks it, or you know, you put a plaster

921
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 3: over it. But really what we need to do is

922
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: see all emotions as being part and parcel of our growth.

923
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 3: And so when I feel anger, I notice it's and

924
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 3: a lot of the emotions are what you say, the

925
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 3: secondary where we're feeling something. The anger is coming out

926
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 3: as the response because I'm used to used to expressing

927
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 3: it in that way, But where is it coming from?

928
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 3: What is the experience or the trauma that I have

929
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 3: gone through that has created this response. Emotions are actually

930
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 3: responses from your body telling you something is happening and

931
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: I need you to listen. And I always sa whether

932
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 3: it's a physical thing where your body's feeling something, where

933
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 3: you get spots because you're stressed out, or your hair

934
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: starts to fall out because you've got you know that

935
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 3: comes with stress also, or whether it's these emotions that

936
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 3: are pouring out of your heart telling you I need

937
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 3: you to listen to me, and I've struggled with that

938
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 3: so much, also because I'm such a crier and I

939
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 3: used to hide that so much. If I was angry,

940
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 3: I would cry. If I'm sad, I'll cry. If I'm

941
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 3: feeling happy, I will cry. But why is one emotion

942
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 3: better than another?

943
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 2: Totally?

944
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 3: And so I've learned to see it as what you said,

945
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 3: it's a growth. It's sitting with it and what you said,

946
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 3: accepting it, processing it. But then also the concept of

947
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 3: emotions being being something that have to pass through you,

948
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 3: not sit in you. And once I learned about it,

949
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 3: I was like, this is wonderful. You may not feel

950
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 3: like it's wonderful at the time, but I'm like, wow,

951
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 3: that anger was really necessary in that moment. I needed

952
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 3: to feel it, but I also need to let it

953
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 3: go for those other emotions to flow through me too.

954
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 3: I mean the way that you have managed to do

955
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 3: that for what your life has brought you and what

956
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 3: you said about there was one part that you spoke

957
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 3: about the culture part of I still see that, the

958
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: women suppressing themselves and elevating men. I went to a

959
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 3: wedding recently, and I still see that so prominent in

960
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 3: our tradition, and I try to as I've gone through

961
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 3: my spiritual practices, I've really learned to differend between religion, spirituality,

962
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: and culture. And I think we've touched on this once

963
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 3: when we were sitting and talking after something where religion

964
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 3: or scripture, and if you actually take it back, there

965
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 3: is so much acceptance within religion and scripture. But then

966
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 3: what happens is there's a lot of male dominance through

967
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 3: somehow that has happened within religious institutions that somehow the

968
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 3: culture at the time is poured into and masked as

969
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 3: spirituality and religion, and so those demands and those laws

970
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 3: of whatever they're trying to put out, it ends up

971
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 3: being where women are seen to They say it's religion,

972
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 3: but it's just a masking of culture. And I'm sure

973
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 3: you've I think you've done so many studies based on this,

974
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: and I would love to hear a little bit more

975
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 3: about about that and what the things that surprised you

976
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 3: or that you've learnt through that.

977
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 2: It really devastates me that I experienced the most hatred

978
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: from my own people. It's most often Indian men and

979
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: Indian women who call me an embarrassment, who say that

980
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 2: I've been contaminated by Western values who say that I'm

981
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 2: holding us back. And it's embarrassing because when we actually

982
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: learn our history as South Asian people, we have thousands

983
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: of years of not just recognition, but reverence of gender

984
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 2: non conforming people, and gender fluidity was actually seen as

985
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: a spiritual path, the idea of breaking up with the

986
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: human obsession with gender norms, to being able to be

987
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: a bridge to a divine source and to be able

988
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: to speak truth. That gender nonconformity allowed us to be truthsayers,

989
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: to tell stories and pass on traditions, but so much

990
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 2: of that was lost with colonization. When the British invaded

991
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: and colonized South Asia, they criminalized gender non conformity, created

992
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: laws like the Unique Ordinances laws which actually made it

993
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: illegal to cross dress in public, and they sought the

994
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 2: complete elimination of gender non conforming in gender varian communities.

995
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 2: And it's sad that I only learned that in college.

996
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 2: And it's sad that I grew up in a very

997
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 2: tightened Indian community feeling like if I was trans, that

998
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,959
Speaker 2: was a betrayal of my culture, not a continuation of it.

999
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: And it's sad that in South Asia trans people are

1000
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: so visible and yet in our South Asian diaspora were

1001
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 2: so minimized because I think a lot of times the

1002
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: way that our diaspora has worked is don't draw attention

1003
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 2: to yourself. Hide, yeah, be very quiet, and then you'll

1004
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 2: be safe. And I can have compassion for that, and

1005
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: I can also have compassion enough to say that doesn't work.

1006
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: It's never been about and I should know this. I

1007
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: was the one telling my nanny not to wear hersari.

1008
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 2: It's never been about what we look like. It's never

1009
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 2: been about what we smell like. It's not been about

1010
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: our body here, none of that. And shape shifting won't win.

1011
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: What wins is actually finding truth and power in it,

1012
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 2: and power in your truth and truth in your power.

1013
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: And I think that's the lesson that we as South

1014
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 2: Asian trans people can really show South Asian American and

1015
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 2: British South Asian people, like actually loving yourself unapologetically is

1016
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: the way forward. You can't love yourself twenty percent and

1017
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: then eighty percent. No, you have to have radical inclusion

1018
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 2: of all the parts of you that you've been shamed in.

1019
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: And I think you know, when people actually think about

1020
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 3: the depth of what spirituality means, what it truly means

1021
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 3: to connect to God or to yourself. We all have

1022
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 3: feminine and masculine energy within us. God is both feminine

1023
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 3: and masculine. And it's funny because within our Hindu culture

1024
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 3: the feminine aspect isn't spoken about as much at all.

1025
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 3: Jay actually did so much research and has speaks about

1026
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: the feminine nature for us. Is rather has spoken about

1027
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 3: that so much and has shown how the power of

1028
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 3: tuning in to worship but to also connect to the

1029
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 3: feminine side of God is so important for us and

1030
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 3: for us to connect to that within us. And I

1031
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 3: think what's happened is I think people don't realize that

1032
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 3: we both have those within us. Like it's not even

1033
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 3: spoken about much where you don't realize that every single

1034
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 3: person it has a soul. That soul is both feminine

1035
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 3: and masculine, and we pull on them throughout the day,

1036
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: throughout our life. And to actually be in balance, to

1037
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 3: actually be in tune with yourself is to connect to both.

1038
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 3: If we're connecting to one more than the other, that

1039
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 3: is us out of balance. And it's so interesting to

1040
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 3: see how things can shift through generations and generations and

1041
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 3: how things are going to be carried on through traditions

1042
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 3: when it makes no sense, and we don't question it

1043
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 3: because also people maybe aren't doing the studying or aren't

1044
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 3: going back to the route, and so it's word of

1045
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 3: that gets passed on versus truth and reality.

1046
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 2: I think the reason we don't question it is that

1047
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 2: would incriminate the people who said that they loved us.

1048
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 2: It's often our parents, it's our teachers who say you

1049
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 2: have to act more masculine, you have to ask more feminine.

1050
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: And once again, it's easier to demonize a small group

1051
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 2: of trans people than it is to account for the

1052
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 2: entire inventory of pain of growing up in a world that,

1053
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 2: before asking how are you, said are you a boy

1054
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: or a girl? You know, and we've been so saturated

1055
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 2: with the idea that performing our gender is our imperative

1056
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 2: for being on earth. Yeah, And what I really want

1057
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: to tell people is that you can dig all of

1058
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 2: the time that you're allocating into confirming other people's gender

1059
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: norms and reallocate that into throwing green juice at a bush.

1060
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 2: That would be more interesting use of your time than

1061
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 2: trying to emulate these nineteenth century definitions of gender. And

1062
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 2: so that's why the reframe that I've often given the

1063
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: world is that I'm being targeted not because I'm a

1064
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 2: victim or because I lack or because I'm broken or faulty.

1065
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: I'm being targeted because I am powerful and I'm harmonious,

1066
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: and I represent possibility, and people sabotage possibility because they

1067
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 2: don't think that they're worth it. They don't think that

1068
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 2: they're worth expansion. And what I really want the world

1069
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: to understand is the reason I champion this issue so

1070
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: hard is because I want healing for everyone. It's not

1071
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: self indulgent, it's not selfish. It's not just my concern

1072
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: for myself or other trans people. I want genuine healing

1073
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: for all people. And right now, our gendered system is

1074
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 2: not it's toxic, it's disgusting, it's despicable. It's all the

1075
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: slurs that they say about trans people. They're misdirected. They

1076
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 2: should go towards our patriarchal system. And in order for

1077
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: there to be healing, there has to be a radical

1078
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 2: embrace and union of our divine man skuline and are

1079
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 2: divine feminine.

1080
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 3: And I think you know, like you said, the easier

1081
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 3: option for you would be to walk out in what

1082
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 3: people would expect you to dress in. What people don't

1083
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 3: realize is you are going out of your way to actually, no,

1084
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: you're not going outywhere because it is who you are.

1085
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 3: But you are making a point to stand in your

1086
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 3: own self and to show up in this way because

1087
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 3: it is going to benefit everybody long term. And you

1088
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 3: could take the easy option. You could live your life

1089
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 3: and hide it, and you know that would be that

1090
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 3: would be an easier option for you. You don't want to

1091
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 3: walk out and get shouted at and get things thrown

1092
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 3: in you whatever it is that you've experienced, but you

1093
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 3: choose not to do that. So it's actually, I know

1094
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: you have trait, you've been able to change the narrative

1095
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 3: and see as you showing up as yourself, But it

1096
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,959
Speaker 3: is also a sacrifice that you are making to show

1097
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 3: up when people are not ready to yet accept it.

1098
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 3: I think people's view of it is, oh, you're just

1099
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 3: doing what you want and you're just but no, you are.

1100
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 3: You are doing so much to even be that and

1101
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 3: to show up because of how the world is not

1102
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 3: ready yet to to deal with what's going on in

1103
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 3: their own hearts.

1104
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: That's my spirituality, Yeah, and it's taken me a long

1105
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: time to develop this language and awareness. But what it

1106
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: means to be a spiritual person is to not wait

1107
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: for the world to reflect the value systems that you

1108
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: believe it should have, but to live those value systems now.

1109
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: And I want to live in a world where we

1110
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 2: congratulate people for giving birth to themselves, where we allow

1111
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: people to become the fullest and ripest versions of themselves.

1112
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 2: I can't just speak about it. I have to live it.

1113
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 2: I have to embody it. I have to show people

1114
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 2: that it's possible. And that's not about me wanting to

1115
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 2: be a martyr. There are days where I can't and

1116
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: I step back and I say this, It wouldn't be

1117
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: safe for me in this airport to be wearing this heel,

1118
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 2: so I'm just going to put it in my back. Yeah,

1119
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 2: there are days in which I have to make concessions,

1120
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 2: but ultimately I always return. I always return to this

1121
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 2: because I know that when I'm writing, when I'm speaking

1122
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 2: on stage, when I'm speaking to on this podcast. Now,

1123
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 2: if I didn't come as this version of myself, the

1124
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 2: words I'm saying wouldn't be there. They're there for me

1125
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 2: because this is me getting ready for ritual and my

1126
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 2: job on this earth is to speak the truth. Truth

1127
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 2: is my ritual. So how do I speak the ritual?

1128
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: I have to dress as if this was God work,

1129
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: because I think it is.

1130
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 3: It makes me so sad when I think about obviously

1131
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 3: having grown up Hindu, and I don't necessarily, you know,

1132
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 3: connect with my I wouldn't go out and say I'm

1133
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 3: Hindu anymore. That's just that's not a religion that I

1134
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 3: necessarily feel as connected to. I definitely feel more connected

1135
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 3: to my spiritual path and my own connection. And the

1136
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 3: reason I say that is because I feel one in Hinduism.

1137
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 3: It's become a little bit confusing where we know what

1138
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 3: we stand for, but where okay, let's say it is

1139
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 3: about the spirit and the soul and love, but only

1140
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 3: love certain people, and I think a lot of religious institutes.

1141
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 3: And that's what's sad about it, where religion can actually

1142
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 3: be a really b full, uniting thing, but it has

1143
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 3: become so segregating, and it has become something where it's

1144
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 3: masters we love and we're open arms. Come to our church,

1145
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 3: come to our temple, come to our synagogue. But there's

1146
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 3: rules to the love, and there is no rules to love.

1147
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 3: And that's what really upsets me because I you know,

1148
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 3: I've only done a small amount of study and through

1149
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 3: my own practice, but the essence of every single religion

1150
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 3: actually is unlimited love and unlimited acceptance, not fear, not

1151
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 3: with specific rules and regulations. It is accept everyone. Everybody

1152
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 3: is worth loving. But we've just put so many restrictions

1153
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 3: on that based on our filters that we have as

1154
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 3: society that it's made religions so unattractive to so many

1155
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 3: people because of those things that's happened, and that's why

1156
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 3: I think people are moving away from going to religious institutions.

1157
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 3: They are creating their own paths. But now we have

1158
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 3: to create those spiritual communities ourselves because they are no

1159
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 3: longer safe places for people to go to. And what

1160
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 3: you said about our community being the most hateful, it's

1161
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 3: really sad to me that. And slowly I'm seeing in

1162
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 3: the temple that I sometimes go to in London, that's

1163
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 3: where I started my practices, I'm seeing there is more acceptance.

1164
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 3: There are more which is sad team saying, more women

1165
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 3: that are in more authoritative figures, There is more open mindedness.

1166
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 3: But the fact that it's even got to the point

1167
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 3: where there was closed doors for people. That to me

1168
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 3: is just it's wild. It's wild to me that it's

1169
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 3: been even translated into that, and I'm so I'm sorry,

1170
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 3: and I'm sad that you have even had to go

1171
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 3: through that yourself, but that you've maintained what's incredible is

1172
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 3: that you've maintained your connection. And I've had friends who

1173
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 3: are Muslim and have been told that they are literally

1174
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 3: going against their religion by being gay, and that they

1175
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 3: are literally going to go to Hell. And then what

1176
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 3: you said, they had their family dynamic, They had their

1177
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 3: family who were supportive and loving and kind, and so

1178
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 3: no matter what happened with other people, no matter what

1179
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 3: they said, they still maintain their relationship with God, with

1180
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 3: themselves and with their family. And I think that foundation

1181
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 3: of community is so important whatever struggles you go through,

1182
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 3: and to have that foundation of family is just really

1183
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 3: precious and invaluable. Almost But yeah, thank you for sharing that.

1184
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 3: I really appreciate it. I have a few, like three

1185
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 3: questions that popped up in my mind. What is something

1186
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,439
Speaker 3: a lot of people don't know about you that you'd

1187
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 3: want them to know?

1188
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 2: Remarkably silly, I think I haven't found a way to

1189
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: communicate that online so I have like a lot of

1190
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 2: like serious talking head better but in person I'm way

1191
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 2: more ridiculous.

1192
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like I've experienced that with you, so

1193
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 3: I appreciate that part of you and sharing it. What

1194
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 3: emotion do you find difficult to deal with the most

1195
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:53,479
Speaker 3: and why?

1196
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 2: I think with our conversation it's grief. It's like the

1197
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 2: newest old friend every time I'm like again, I thought

1198
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 2: I did this work, and I run away from it

1199
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 2: and I keep myself busy so I don't just sit

1200
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 2: in the pain. But it's something I'm working on.

1201
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: And when was the last time you had a really

1202
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 3: good cry? And if you don't mind sharing why, it's.

1203
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 2: Been a while so it's hard to recollect. You're inspiring

1204
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 2: me to find cause to do one tonight.

1205
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 3: What's your usual release of emotion? How do you normally

1206
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 3: release if you are feeling sad? Is it through writing mainly? Yeah? Yeah.

1207
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 2: I keep a daily journal. That's part of my contemplative practice,

1208
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 2: and I write down every single thing that I think,

1209
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: feel and do every single day.

1210
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: I need to start doing that and it's.

1211
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: So emotional for me. I mean, my astrological sign is cancer.

1212
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 2: I'm a very much water sign and so just like

1213
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 2: being able to look at it my day and be like,

1214
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 2: I'm alive.

1215
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 3: I just like I love the grass too that you

1216
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 3: have for life. I think it's it's something that people

1217
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 3: like you said, we can go on autopilot day by

1218
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 3: day by day and not have that deep gratitude. And

1219
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 3: I think one thing that I'm taking away the most

1220
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 3: from this is if you have the sense of death

1221
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 3: in your mind every single day and not see it

1222
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 3: as morbid, but see as this fuel that gets you

1223
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 3: to feel this gratitude every single day, that is the

1224
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 3: I think that if there's one thing you're gonna take,

1225
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 3: take a lot from this, but if there's one thing

1226
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 3: you're going to take, take that to actually feel that

1227
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 3: gratitude and genuine connection to the day that you are

1228
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 3: gifted every single day.

1229
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: I mean it is kind of more bid and beautiful.

1230
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 2: It is every decision you make in life, what if

1231
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: you ask yourself, is this rooted in the fundamental truth

1232
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 2: that I'm going to die? Then we start to make

1233
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 2: very different divisions. It's so true, but we just we

1234
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 2: just operate off of immortality is the premise, and that

1235
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 2: is killing us actually prematuring our deaths. What I've actually

1236
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 2: found in my life is that, like I'm able to

1237
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 2: clear out the bullshit. I have conviction that time on

1238
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 2: earth is finite and precious and sacred, so I have

1239
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 2: to be very intentional with what I do with it.

1240
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you don't need to be sending those rude

1241
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 3: dms to people. Guys. Okay, we don't need to be

1242
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 3: sending that hey message. You've got better things to be doing.

1243
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 3: The last thing they're like doing on this this is silly,

1244
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 3: so I think I'll appreciate it. It's what kind of

1245
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 3: cry are you? So I have categorized the types of criers.

1246
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 3: There might be more, but there's the loud, ugly cry,

1247
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 3: which is that you know, you know what that looks like,

1248
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 3: the breathless, which is like the sniffler and snutty, where

1249
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 3: there is like there is liquid coming out every part

1250
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 3: of the body when they're crying, the high pitched that

1251
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 3: friend who suddenly goes like this doesn't know how to

1252
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 3: come back down, that I'm not crying your crying cry,

1253
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 3: the one who's like really elegant and I've got something

1254
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 3: in my eye. And then the silent cry, the one

1255
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 3: where you don't even know his cry that just kind

1256
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 3: of go to the bathroom, come back and nothing has happened.

1257
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 2: I'm the elegant cry. Okay, Yeah, I really have a

1258
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 2: lot of jealousy, and I'm working throughout the motion of

1259
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 2: the loud crier like I want to I want to heave.

1260
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 2: I want like a dramatic cry, you know, but mine

1261
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 2: is very subtle.

1262
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 3: I kind of saw that for you. Yeah, yeah, you're

1263
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 3: gonna have to give us a little example of it later. Oh,

1264
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you so much. It has honestly been

1265
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 3: I think I don't know if I want to say this,

1266
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 3: but like my favorite conversation, but yeah, thank you so

1267
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 3: much for showing up as you and for doing everything

1268
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 3: that you are doing. I have so much more to

1269
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:33,439
Speaker 3: learn in this space, and so much more I feel

1270
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 3: I want to give, and I think this has really

1271
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 3: spoked that in me, and so much that you have

1272
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 3: shared has yeah, so much, so much reflection to be

1273
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 3: doing for all of us. So thank you, thank you,

1274
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 3: thank you so much for watching this episode. I hope

1275
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 3: you enjoyed it, and don't miss out on my new episode.

1276
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 3: It's right here, And if you're listening to the podcast

1277
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 3: on Apple or Spotify, please go and leave a review

1278
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 3: with your biggest takeaways. I love reading your comments, and

1279
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 3: if you have any suggestquestions for guests or topics, you

1280
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 3: can leave them in the comments section. Two and just remember,

1281
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 3: you don't need a reason to have a really good cry.