WEBVTT - I Am A Noise with Joan Baez 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:01.800 Hi, Catherine. 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.160 Oh, hello Chelsea, Chelsea. I've got a couple of little 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:06.240 updates for us. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:06.960 Okay. 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.080 This is Emily who called in on our Lake Bell 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:16.040 episode a while back. She was about to go into 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.400 our last year of law school and was really intimidated 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.280 about going out and trying to find fellowships, find a job. 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.000 I remember, Yeah, So she. 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.680 Wrote in and said, Hi, Chelsea, just wanted to give 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.440 you an update since my podcast episode. I'm headed into 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.400 my last year of law school feeling more and more 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.280 confident about interviewing, getting a job outside of Ohio, etc. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.800 But even more so, many of my classmates resonated with 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.559 what we discussed, especially the fear of rejection, and I 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:44.519 think it helped so many of us realize that we 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.960 are really in a collective experience and it's going to 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.800 work out in the end. Also, I just went to 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.640 Chelsea's touristop in Columbus, Ohio, and it was the perfect 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.800 way to start off my last year of school after 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.800 the wonderful advice that you provided me last year. All 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.640 the best, Emily, awesome. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.720 Some love it, Emily love it. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:02.320 Yeah. 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.240 People are moving and shaken, which is off into the world, Chelsea. 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.280 Do you have some new dates for us. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:09.560 Oh you know, I do? 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.640 You know, I do. I have a lot of We 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:18.400 added lots of Canadian cities, Canadians, I'm coming. We added 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.800 about fifteen new tour dates. I'm coming to Denver again, 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:29.800 Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Richmond, Virginia, Santa Rosa, California, Gary 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:35.119 and Diana, Baltimore, Verona, New York, and about seven dates 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.200 in Canada. So go to Chelseahandler dot com. I am 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.240 performing everywhere. I will be on tour all for the 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.560 rest of the year through December, and then next year, 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.200 I'm going to be touring all year. So come and 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.800 get it, you guys. It's good times and it's a 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.120 very much needed reprieve from all the fucking madness that's 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.280 going on in this world. So I'm here to bring 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:58.320 joy and sunshine. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.640 Yep, go see Chelsea and do some laughing because her 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:03.360 show was fantastic. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.680 Oh thanks, okay. Our guest has a new documentary out 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.359 about her life, Joan Bias. I am a noise. Please 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:16.440 welcome singer, songwriter and social justice warrior Joan Bias. What 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.960 an absolute delight, Joe Bias. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:20.639 Nice to meet you, so. 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.919 Nice to meet you. I was so enjoyed your documentary 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.800 that I watched last night in preparation. It's called I 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.720 Am a Noise And there's a lot to cover. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:32.720 There is fire away. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.360 So yeah. So you start out you grew up with 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.919 two sisters, and you guys were pretty tight growing up, right. 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:40.800 I grew up with two sisters too, So I under 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.720 I understand that sister. I knew which one oldest, mid 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.959 I was the youngest, youngest, yes, and you were middle 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.600 middle yep. And so Mimi was younger than you. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.480 She was four years younger than me. Yeah, yeah, and 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.120 the older one was two years older. So okay. 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.839 And so you guys grew up in Yeah we grew 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.000 up Yeah, which is a success in it and of itself. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.200 Growing up. And in the beginning of the documentary, you 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.239 talk about your childhood and you're with your older sister 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.440 and you just kind of are discussing your different kind 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.680 of takes on your childhood. You didn't have such happy 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.560 memories but while you were growing up. The way I 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.480 took it, in the way it was depicted in the film, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.200 was that you weren't really sure what had happened during 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.799 your childhood, but that something had happened, that was just 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.560 had disrupted you some sort of trauma that you were 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.440 kind of dealing with throughout your young adult life and 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.240 adult life and really couldn't put your finger on it 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.880 until you went to the deeper stuff. 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.760 Yeah. Yeah, I mean I had help all the way through, 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.800 starting at age fifteen, because I didn't you know, we 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.600 didn't have the expression panic attack back then, but my 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.240 life was one big panic attack to the next, and 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.800 so that was a clue, but we didn't understand that, 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.240 you know. So I saw good therapists and they helped 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:00.000 me in round and under, but never to this since 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.000 So that's what was my aim that I had to do. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:08.560 And in the film we try to depict that as 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.720 cleverly an understated way as possible. I'm not interested in 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.440 giving details. It's too confusing for people. So I would 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.440 say the film speaks for itself as much as it can, 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:20.480 as much as I can. 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.800 And when you say you saw a therapist at fifteen, 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.640 but that was so like supplied by your parents. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.240 Well yeah, I mean I have to hand it to 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.240 my mom. She kind of she kind of got it 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:36.679 because back then people didn't go to psychiatrists, right, right, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:39.440 Our job with the film was to try and make 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:45.839 that section about childhood trauma not so overwhelming that that's 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.880 all anybody remembers. It's the most startling parts, so people 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.400 refer to it. But the stuff, there's stuff that I 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.960 learned from the film. I mean, I had no idea 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.440 really what my sisters felt. You don't say that to 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:04.039 your sister, but they trusted Karen and O'Connor, who was directing, 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.279 and so they were able to speak and say how 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.880 they You know, my older sister that I basically sucked 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.080 all the oxygen out of the room and when I 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.400 walked in then she couldn't survive that and MADEI wanted 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.040 to be a singer and was totally you know, confused 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:25.680 about her place in the world. And my father was 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:27.680 pissed off that I wasn't making a lot of money. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.640 I mean, it was all it was all a big jumble. 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.680 But I see it in the film in a way 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:34.080 that I didn't see it before. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.240 And how did it make you feel to learn that 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.320 that's how your sisters felt about your success and in 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:40.680 relation to you. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.320 Well, I knew in a sense, but I never heard 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.839 them really really say it. So I mean, watching the film. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:48.880 Each time I watch it, and I've watched it at 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.040 a bunch of openings, is always a gut punch here 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.320 and there of stuff that I'm learning for the first time, 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.760 but there's also positive stuff that I'm learning for the 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:02.200 first time. It is a big learning experience. 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:04.839 Yeah, I think it's really well done because you hint 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.120 at some sort of trauma, but you don't reveal that 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.640 it was sexual abuse until the end of the film. 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.320 But I suspected that as soon as you said something 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.720 earlier in the film about the panic attacks. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.680 And well, it's interesting that you suspected. It just means 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.080 that you know something about that world because some people 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:20.440 don't know. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.720 Yeah, I don't get it. Yeah, Well, when kids are 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.000 having panic attacks and they can't really put their finger 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:30.039 on it's something, right, Something is always up. And I 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.919 think it's interesting that the domino effect of a career 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.640 and a big life that can have on your siblings, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.680 Like you know, one of your sisters, your older sister, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.119 as you mentioned, had to retreat. She didn't want anything 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:43.760 to do with it. She didn't like that, you know, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.240 she didn't want any attention on her. And your other 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.880 sister tried to kind of mimic what you did and 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:51.720 ended up with a guy that she went and created 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:53.760 a lot of music with, but who sadly passed away 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.720 much earlier than expected. And then there's also just so 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.960 much activism in this film that you did. It's so beautiful. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.040 I love it and can relate so much to your 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.760 passion for activism, and then your relationship with Bob Dylan, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.440 which was heartbreaking. I didn't know that that's how it ended. 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.200 Well. I think it's sort of unique that I just said, 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.040 I guess he broke my heart. You know, these people 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.160 don't usually say that kind of stuff, but I just 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.160 blurted out a lot of truths in the film. I 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.840 figure it's supposed to be an honest legacy. I can't 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.160 afford to hide stuff now, I mean my eighties. You know, 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.280 I've gotten nothing to lose. Family's gone not gonna hurt 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.720 any feelings in the immediate family. So I turned over 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.040 the keys literally to that storage unit. I had never 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.480 walked in there until the film filmed me walking into 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.520 my storage unit. I had no idea that my mother 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:52.800 kept absolutely every letter, every little tape recording I'd said, 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.360 and my father was a camera buff by the time 0:07:55.360 --> 0:08:00.440 he was ten, kept every eight millimeter he took of 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.960 us and all his photographs, and it was all in 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.760 that room. I mean, I knew about some of my 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.200 own tapes that I knew, but I didn't know was 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.679 that orderly. I had nothing to do with that. Somebody 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.720 else had to put it in order. You know. I said, 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:15.880 do what you need to do. And if I had 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:18.320 been involved with the making of the film, it would 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.000 have just been a nightmare. I would have not wanted this, 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.440 not wanted that, and chosen this. And I look good here, 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.760 and we joke about courage. You know, took courage to 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.560 be in the bombshelter, to courage to deal with the 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.719 kou Klux Klan. But the real courage was letting them 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.160 fill this with natural light. You know. I didn't have 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.840 any help from that, and I think that's important. 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.200 Well listen, if this is what eighty looks like, and 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.640 this is what I'm rolling into, I'm pretty psyched about 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.320 it because you're adoraball. I think you're beautiful, you're sexy, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.880 you're all of the things that nobody equates with being 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.600 in your eighties. So thank you all done on that front, 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.680 Well done on the superficial front. Let's get to the 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:02.000 deeper stuff. Okay, let's talk about when you became successful 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.960 on a level that you weren't anticipating. You're talking in 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.240 the movie about. I mean, it was obviously the time 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.040 you were living in right that had an impact on 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.000 the success of what people needed to hear. But what 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.120 was the moment where everything changed. I know with Bob 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.360 Dylan you were talking about it being in London, but 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:19.040 for you. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.280 The beginning probably bang, it was Newport. I mean I'd 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.320 been seeing that wonderful little club and I had a 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.760 following there, and it's kind of it was kind of 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.240 leaking out of Cambridge and into Boston to New York. 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.960 But then you know, Odetta invited me up to go 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.000 to Newport, and then Bob Gibson, who was well known 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.160 at the time folk singer, invited me up on stage, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.840 and that kind of did it. I mean it was 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.720 a big First of all, there thirteen thousand people. I 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:48.840 didn't know that many people got in one place at 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.240 one time. That was very cool, and I was very 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.679 very nervous. I mean literally, you know the expression of 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.480 my knees were shaking. Yeah, my knees were shaking, and 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.079 I was, how am I going to do this? But 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:00.760 then I went up, I did it, and it was 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.480 a huge response, and you know, as Mimi says in 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.480 the film, it was an overnight thing. And the next 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.520 thing I knew, I was on the cover of Time magazine. 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.000 And yeah, it was fast. It was fast, and you 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.880 try to absorb that as a seventeen eighteen, nineteen year old. 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.240 And I was determined to not become commercial. And I, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.280 you know, I was a big pain in the ass 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.680 because I didn't want all the stuff that people usually want. 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.199 I didn't want red carpets, and I didn't want limousines. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.600 I didn't want flowers on the stage. And apparently I 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.560 was just as difficult as anybody else. 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.360 And the whole time, you're writing letters to your parents saying, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.600 you know, I'm not growing enough. You're you're disappointed kind 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.360 of in the path that you had taken in your success. 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.280 You weren't able to maybe enjoy it as much because 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.520 you were worried about your other skill sets in life 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.920 and your other learnings that you felt like you were 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:53.840 kind of missing out on. Is that accurate? 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:54.680 Yeah? 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.480 And also it was my father and somehow it translated 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.840 to me that I would go to hell literally if 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.559 I did certain things and did them wrong. So everything 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.640 was measured a little bit. I was just a good thing. 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.920 This is a bad thing. It's going to hurt somebody. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.000 So I know you're right. I didn't have time to 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:13.160 really enjoy myself. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.520 And then when did you meet Bobby Bobby Bobby Dylan? 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.120 I must have met him in sixty one or two. 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:24.839 And how long had you been successful and in the 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:25.680 public eye. 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.400 At that point until fifty nine? 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.840 Okay, so a couple of years. So there's a there's 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:32.960 a sequence in the in the film of you two 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.520 singing together, and it is adorable. I have never seen 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.719 him smile like that. I was like, whoa, these two 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.800 are obviously having something. Something's happening with these two. You 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.440 could see that. And at that point, was something happening 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:47.600 or were you just friends? 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.240 I was a version of that point, you know, shock 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.920 of ball shocks that moved on at some point. But 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:55.680 so was a question about mom. 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.360 I was saying the scene in the film where you're 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.600 postinging together on stage, Yeah, I don't know where that was. 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.680 Well, I wasn't a virgin anymore, so wow. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.120 Okay, So were you guys in a romantic relationship at 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:07.079 that point? Okay, yeah, it. 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.160 Seemed like and you know, and we were so young. 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:11.680 I look at that and I just keep thinking we 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.079 had our baby fat. You know, we were just kids, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.960 and so it was as fun as it looked. It 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.440 was just adorable. That was the word you said. 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.959 Yeah, pretty adorable, very obvious the chemistry. And so how 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.240 long did you guys stay together? 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.120 You and Bob Dylan on and off for a couple 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.840 of years, I guess, I don't honestly remember how long 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.920 this part of it lasted. And we stayed with me 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.360 for a while in Carmel Valley and he wrote a 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.320 lot of stuff. He wrote four letter word and dropped 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.760 it on the floor and forgot about it, and I 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.400 picked it up. I said, oh wow, this is really cool. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.440 And he would say something like tell me what it means? 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.080 Can you tell me what it means? And I would 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:56.760 give my best interpretation and he say, yeah, it's pretty good. 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.320 You know, after I dropped it, everybody's going to say this, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.400 this is a this is what this was? Violent? What 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.160 the fuck is about? So yeah, and there he was 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.559 this kid writing these amazing songs. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.000 And that was your first love. Would you say no, no, 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.160 would you say he was a love or yeah? 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.840 Yeah, yeah, my first love was a Harvard student. I 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.920 was goga about for four years. We hadn't matching the rosies, 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.960 so it went on really quite a long time. 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.600 Okay, so he was your second love? 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:27.720 He was? 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:30.800 Oh is there another one in between there? Wow, you 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:32.600 were busy between seventeen. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.600 And twenty one? Was but if people don't recognize the name, 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.680 they don't count, well, yeah, I guess. 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.720 And there was Kimmy also oh yeah, yes, yes. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.240 There was a young woman. Yeah that was. And it 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.160 says in the film it was just a relief. I 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.880 mean it was it was something new, and it was 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.720 something sweet and I didn't have to get all riled 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.000 up that it was a guy. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.720 Right right. I always feel that I'm always like, just 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.520 to block away from becoming a lesbian, you know, with 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.120 the the dynamic between men and women, You're always like, well, 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.079 at least that's an option later, maybe sooner than later, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.560 could you know, I know? And whenever. So when you 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.240 guys went to London with Bob Dylan, like that was 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.240 when his fame just became a jug or not. And 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.920 that's when things you felt, I think you used demoralized. 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:26.600 Demoralizing, Yeah, I mean the act, the action was totally 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.360 around Bob, and I could have jumped in there and 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.840 hung on to his shirt sleeves and gone everywhere with 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.400 him and been the center of attention as well, and 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.960 I thought I just didn't want to do that, so 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.000 I was peripheral and I suffered from that. But and 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.000 then maybe it became too late to try and enter 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.880 the boys club, but they were doing drugs. I didn't. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:54.720 I didn't do this little folky addendum outside of you know, 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.480 it's a fringe of everybody of the guys. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.520 And there was an I mean, they were asking him 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.000 directly questions about dating you, and he said, no, we're 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.000 not together. She's just a friend, right right, right, which 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.680 is in the film, And that was that was devastating. 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.280 But I really bring in now that the years of 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.320 resentment and years of bullshit. And then I was painting 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.680 his portrait. Bob was a younger, maybe the photograph was 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.360 he was twenty one or something. And while I was 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.120 painting this, I put on this music and I started 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.119 to cry and it was gratitude. It was just gratitude 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:36.120 and all of the bullshit just literally fell away, and 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.600 I was left with this gratitude that I was there, 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.560 I was singing then, that I met him, then that 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:46.600 his songs were then and at the moment, there's no reason. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.400 I mean, I'll joke about him because he's nuts, but 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.960 it's not internally hurt and all that angst is gone. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:55.520 Did he ever apologize to you? 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.440 You know, I didn't expect him to apologize when I 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.120 look at that film, and maybe I'm just keeping myself 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.000 from feeling anything, but I just see this kid. I 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.240 don't know what was going on in him. I don't 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.800 know if he was for some reason hurting as well. 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.040 You can't tell, right, right, So that's a fair assessment. Yeah, 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.080 I don't blame him. I mean, I'm sure I did 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.520 then and for years philt. You know, I'd been done wrong, 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.560 But I don't know what he was feeling and I 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:24.400 never will. 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.440 Right, And because you went back on tour with him later. 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.360 Yeah, and that was that was a totally different scene, 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:32.680 you know, And that was crazy and fun and I 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.200 was on kuailude then, so yes, that was my drug experience. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:37.480 Was that was the only one. 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.560 What did quailudes do for you? 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.440 I just didn't worry about stuff so much, and for 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.600 sex as well, you know, made it easier to get 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.760 over the first number of hurdles you have to go through. 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:51.440 I don't know, maybe you don't have to go through. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.040 No, I think I have some of the same issues. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.240 You talk a lot about intimacy in this documentary. You 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.760 talk a lot about about your not necessarily fear of it. 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.640 It's it seems like you're kind of admittingly not so 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:03.840 well versed. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.120 In into inability. 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.399 Yeah, and over time, you don't think that you've been 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.720 able to address that in therapy. 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.159 Or oh, sure I have on some levels. Well, I 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.520 would say I went through this deep stuff and it 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:20.119 was tremendous amount of work, the bone shattering work of remembering. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.840 And I did that for a number of years until 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.399 I literally began to feel whole, which comes at the 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.040 end of the film. Yes, I feel whole. And at 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.800 the end of the hard work, when I felt like, oh, 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.080 this is what it must feel like to be a person. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.880 It was sort of hinted at by this therapist, well, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.600 now you can go on and sort of start dating, 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.639 and I said, no way, no fucking way. I'm comfortable 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.119 where I am. I don't want to wreck my life 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.280 by taking on another level of work, and I didn't 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.920 see it as a goody and start dating was oh 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:55.960 my god, I can't do that. And that was a 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.080 decision I made, and I've been very happy with it. 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.480 And do you directly link that that lack of intimacy 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:03.280 to your childhood. 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:04.600 I would say to that, I call it trauma. 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:05.120 Yeah. 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.720 I mean we're molded by our childhoods. And even though 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.040 I had repressed mine for half a century, I was 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.359 being molded by it anyway. So all of that I did, 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:18.080 all the sad songs I sang for three years without 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.560 I think there was nothing happy in there at all. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.600 I didn't know why, and people had asked me why 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:29.440 it suited me. I had no uncertainty ever about the voice. Yeah, 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:34.760 I had inhibitions insecurities, but never about the sound of 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.399 the gift that I had. And because I consider it 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.840 a gift, I never claimed it or felt proud of it. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.440 My I mean proud, yes, because the work I did, 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.560 and my job was maintenance and delivery all the way through, 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.639 you know. And I could talk about it from the outside. 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.359 I WHOA what a voice? I listened to it sometimes 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.040 that early stuff, I am blown away. I'm just it's 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:00.199 just amazed me. 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:01.240 Wow. 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.359 Yeah. Well, during one of the interviews in the film, 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.600 someone asks you, you know, do you still have this voice, 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.520 and if not, do you miss it? And You're like, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:11.879 I absolutely do not have. 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:13.520 That voice, and I absolutely do miss it. 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.280 And I do miss it, but I'm focusing on what 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:15.840 I do have. 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:20.119 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that got harder and harder, and 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.160 that comes out at the beginning of the film. I'm 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:27.000 struggling away with vocalizing and happily my Bouvier dog vocalizes 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.520 with me at the same time to ease up on them, 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.879 you know, on the pressure of it. But it go 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.720 harder and harder, and so it just became effortful. During 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.439 the tour, the last tour, yes, and leading up to that. 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.120 Yeah yeah. Just as the years went by, I got 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.120 I bought myself about ten years by seeing the right 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.439