Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to
Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,
Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show
Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced
Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right.
Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. Most noe Pharrell Williams from his hit
Speaker 1: song Happy, or for producing an appearing in the video
Speaker 1: for Robin Dick's Blurred Lines, or for the resulting lawsuit
Speaker 1: brought by Marvin Gay's estate for copyright infringement, or for
Speaker 1: being a judge on NBC's The Voice, or for his
Speaker 1: work in fashion with his lines Billionaire Boys Club and
Speaker 1: ice Cream and partnerships with Adidas and Chanel. The point
Speaker 1: is that Farrell is one of the rare, effortless multi hyphenants,
Speaker 1: and he's everywhere. A stat's been thrown around for years
Speaker 1: that Farrell, along with his Neptunes producing partner Chad Hugo,
Speaker 1: was responsible for forty three percent of music played on
Speaker 1: US radio by two thousand and three. It's hard to
Speaker 1: say if that's true or not, but you could have
Speaker 1: told me it was fifty percent, and I'd have believed you.
Speaker 1: And Farrell's not done yet. In the last couple weeks alone,
Speaker 1: he's launched a number of ventures. A Netflix show Voices
Speaker 1: of Fire, where he attempts to assemble the gospel world's
Speaker 1: best choir, a newly launched skincare line Human Race because
Speaker 1: you can also add Flawless Skin to his list of
Speaker 1: unique gifts, end a podcasting company Other Tone Media. Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin connected with Farrell over zoom this past weekend to
Speaker 1: talk through and listen to some of the biggest hits
Speaker 1: of his illustrious career, and also to check in on
Speaker 1: what music he's working on right now. This is broken
Speaker 1: record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmonton.
Speaker 1: Here's Rick Rubin and Forrell Williams. What are you working
Speaker 1: on right now? Rihanna ty Dolla sign the singer songwriter
Speaker 1: Chris cab Rosalia. Great, yeah, some blank Wantity two coming. Nice.
Speaker 1: It's been a minute for Rihanna. No, yeah, it's been
Speaker 1: a minute. Have you cracked the code of what it's
Speaker 1: going to be? Oh? Yeah, it's really it's really her
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, what she wants. But
Speaker 1: I just you know, I just sound wise. I was
Speaker 1: trying to just like make something that like looks and
Speaker 1: feels like she does. So when you work with her,
Speaker 1: visit will a track start the conversation and then a
Speaker 1: song get written? Typically? How would that work? It's really
Speaker 1: like she talks about what she wants to feel, and
Speaker 1: then it's my job to reverse engineer that. So you
Speaker 1: try to get the feeling into the music first before
Speaker 1: there's a song, or might there be a song first? No,
Speaker 1: it's a feeling first. Yeah, when working with her, it's
Speaker 1: a feeling. It's like we're reverse engineering that feeling and
Speaker 1: trying to turn that into something. And does it typically
Speaker 1: does it happen relatively quickly or might it take some time? Uh?
Speaker 1: You just kind of dive in and go go for it.
Speaker 1: So it's that's not that doesn't really take too long
Speaker 1: to crack. You know, because you because you're you, you
Speaker 1: have coordinates, you know, you know where you're going, you
Speaker 1: know what you're looking for, and you'll know when you're there.
Speaker 1: And as soon as you get the feeling right, what's
Speaker 1: the process for that to turn into a song for her?
Speaker 1: We got like the right writers for like the right
Speaker 1: kind of tone and myself, so we kind of like
Speaker 1: just really wrestle and grapple until we feel like we're
Speaker 1: like really hitting that specific note and would it would
Speaker 1: it be might lyrics come first or would it be
Speaker 1: more sensi melody or might it be the hook? Or
Speaker 1: is there any order typically or no odds the melody?
Speaker 1: It's the melody. And then then we kind of like
Speaker 1: listen to what the melody is saying it wants to say,
Speaker 1: and might you do like Scott versions of the melody
Speaker 1: and just see if any words fall into place? Sometimes
Speaker 1: and then other times it's like if some words do
Speaker 1: come out, then in the places where there are no words,
Speaker 1: you kind of take the emotion of what you're trying
Speaker 1: to communicate and you find the words and you kind
Speaker 1: of do a mosaic lyrically. Are you in Miami now? Yes, sir? Cool?
Speaker 1: How long have you lived in Miami? Miami? Probably, like
Speaker 1: you know, for like fifteen years, with like a four
Speaker 1: year four and a half year break, and that's when
Speaker 1: we were in LA. Probably wanted the toughest times in
Speaker 1: my life the time in La. Yeah, why do you think?
Speaker 1: Because LA is limitless access? You know, it's a lot
Speaker 1: and when your whole family is out there, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just a lot. There's a lot going on, and
Speaker 1: it's like life by appointment. It's kind of like a
Speaker 1: different life style, you know, than what we were accustomed
Speaker 1: to growing up. And you know, you just want your
Speaker 1: kids to understand that life is not like that outside
Speaker 1: of Los Angeles city limits. You know, would you say
Speaker 1: Miami is closer to your experience of growing up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's much more like reality, I think anything outside of
Speaker 1: Los Angeles if you're not born there. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a very different thing. It's just a different, amazing
Speaker 1: but different world. Yeah. It feels like people go there
Speaker 1: to work and they live on the side, but they're
Speaker 1: there basically to work. Or I guess pretty much anywhere
Speaker 1: else you live and you go to work when you
Speaker 1: go to work, but when you're not going to work,
Speaker 1: you live in la is kind of like the work. Yes,
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Yeah, tell me about growing up
Speaker 1: in Virginia a little bit. I know, it's very little
Speaker 1: about Virginia is a different it's a different pace. It's
Speaker 1: like you know, normal town in the USA. It's humid,
Speaker 1: which I appreciate, uh creatively, it's like it's in the air.
Speaker 1: It just was a it can just be slow at times.
Speaker 1: It is, you know, one of the first it's you know,
Speaker 1: one of the first thirteen states, so it has a
Speaker 1: lot of that residual energy there. Virginia is very parallel
Speaker 1: in my mind conceptually to America. I love it because
Speaker 1: of its progression, but I'm in love with it because
Speaker 1: of its untapped potential. That being said, there's a whole
Speaker 1: lot of you know, heaviness that come with it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but from the heaviness, can that's where the great things
Speaker 1: can blossom? Well, yeah, that's how we made Grind it.
Speaker 1: That's how we made a lot of songs because it
Speaker 1: was a pressure that stairs there. That pressure is really there.
Speaker 1: You know, the law really comes down on black people differently. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really does. You know, with the plight of the
Speaker 1: African American and African diaspora in Virginia is a lot heavier.
Speaker 1: The gravity on us, you know, two to three times
Speaker 1: more heavier. Should we listen to Grinding and talk about it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Cool with that, Let's do it. Yeah. I feel like
Speaker 1: today it'd be really fun to listen to a bunch
Speaker 1: of records that you made and just see what listening
Speaker 1: to them brings up to be fun to hear, very cool.
Speaker 1: Describe the room that you made that record in. I
Speaker 1: May it was in Chad's in Chad's room. He had
Speaker 1: just bought a house, and you know, found those sounds
Speaker 1: on the triton And while it sounds together now, it
Speaker 1: just at the time it was just like a bunch
Speaker 1: of like African sounds and it just felt primal, you know,
Speaker 1: just all the sounds felt primal, and the sounds just
Speaker 1: felt like it felt like the last laugh of the
Speaker 1: enslaved spirit. And while it was not the last laugh,
Speaker 1: it just made us all feel that way. We knew
Speaker 1: that that was something that could only have come from us,
Speaker 1: and it connected to us all on a primal level.
Speaker 1: You know. So while there was hustlers in the street,
Speaker 1: you know, doing doing illegal things, but trying to survive
Speaker 1: the best way that they felt like they could. And
Speaker 1: while we were as as kids, we were inspired by
Speaker 1: that attitude. Again, it may not be in the most
Speaker 1: healthiest attitude, but we are inspired by We're inspired by
Speaker 1: them grabbing the ball by the horns and sort of
Speaker 1: just like taking themselves on their own ride. I don't know,
Speaker 1: we were trying to reverse the engineer that notion you
Speaker 1: know of just like controlling your own destiny, even if
Speaker 1: it wasn't even the right necessarily the right direction that
Speaker 1: the song was kind of like the soundtrack to that spirit.
Speaker 1: Did the vocals happen the same day that the track
Speaker 1: Cat made? I remember calling pushed it like yo, you
Speaker 1: gotta come over here, like we just made it beat
Speaker 1: like this is one of the ones. You know. I
Speaker 1: knew it was alien, yeah, because it was African and
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was African sounds and it
Speaker 1: wasn't using typical like eight o weights and it wasn't
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't doing what everything else was doing
Speaker 1: back man. Yeah, it was just this the thing where
Speaker 1: you were like, wait, what's going on? And was he
Speaker 1: inspired as soon as he heard it? Yeah? Him and
Speaker 1: him and his brother yeo. Would you ever when you
Speaker 1: finish your track in the studio, bring to a club
Speaker 1: and plate in the clubs here what it feels like
Speaker 1: in the club. I never did that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if anyone would care. You know a
Speaker 1: lot of times, like where we're from, like they don't
Speaker 1: want to really hear. And I knew in the club
Speaker 1: until like the it's the ship you know, so like
Speaker 1: us going in there at that time, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: here he come. You know what I'm saying. I would
Speaker 1: never do that. When you played it for your friends,
Speaker 1: would they positive about it? Yeah? And I knew, like,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of them were like hustlers at
Speaker 1: the time, so I knew like if it worked for them,
Speaker 1: then we were doing something right. Did you have any
Speaker 1: musical mentors when you were in Virginia? I mean only
Speaker 1: Teddy at the time. Tell me about that. You know,
Speaker 1: he was a mentor to us while we were there working,
Speaker 1: you know, in his studio, but other than that, you know,
Speaker 1: once we kind of like went out on our own.
Speaker 1: We kind of didn't have anybody else to bounce things
Speaker 1: off of Virginia because it wasn't like a big music
Speaker 1: scene there at the time. Yeah. And how established was
Speaker 1: Teddy at that point in time when you were just
Speaker 1: starting Teddy was you know, he was a king. I
Speaker 1: mean he had just done like dangerous you know remember
Speaker 1: the time. I mean, Teddy was in my mind, you know,
Speaker 1: in a lot of people's mind still as the king. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Teddy's amazing. What was it like, you know, being a
Speaker 1: kid and being in the room and watching what he
Speaker 1: was doing, did you feel like he's great or did
Speaker 1: you feel like, oh, I think I can do this.
Speaker 1: I was just in awe and I couldn't believe my life.
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe I got to be in a room
Speaker 1: where I got to learn the codes to how you
Speaker 1: make me because other than that, when you're a kid,
Speaker 1: you just think, okay, people are in the studio. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you don't know what that means. You know, to you,
Speaker 1: it's just like a song. It's like all your life
Speaker 1: you've been eating like loaves of bread, never ever ever
Speaker 1: considered you know the amount of flour and how you
Speaker 1: know what the temperature is and to cook it, and
Speaker 1: you know what it takes to package it, and you
Speaker 1: know its shelf life and what's going to look like
Speaker 1: on a truck, and like, you don't consider those in
Speaker 1: tegral details that all must work in concert to deliver
Speaker 1: a consistent experience for you every time you interact with it.
Speaker 1: So being there with him was kind of like being
Speaker 1: in the kitchen. Had Teddy not been in Virginia, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be here. Wow, I wouldn't be talking to you.
Speaker 1: You know, it's all cause and effect and Teddy is
Speaker 1: absolutely the initial He's one of the causes to this effect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me about the formation of the Neptunes. I met
Speaker 1: Chad when I was in the beginning band. I was
Speaker 1: like thirteen, and he played saxophone. I played drums, and
Speaker 1: I moved away from that area, and then we met
Speaker 1: up again at this school called Old Donation Center for
Speaker 1: the Gifted and Talented, and I went there for jazz
Speaker 1: in the summer man and he ended up there, and
Speaker 1: he was like a phenomenal player by that time. And
Speaker 1: I was like a decent drummer, you know, I could
Speaker 1: play anything, and he beat on a drum set. But
Speaker 1: Chad was like prolific with piano, and he was an
Speaker 1: amazing sax player, and he just picked up anything, and
Speaker 1: he just always wanted to learn, and so like you know,
Speaker 1: we were talking. He was like, yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: got like keyboards at my house. Like he's to come
Speaker 1: by some time or whatever. So eventually, like my mom
Speaker 1: would bring me over there, and sometimes I could catch
Speaker 1: rides over there or whatever, and we were just like
Speaker 1: for two three hours. We would just like make beats
Speaker 1: on his like cassio keyboards, you know. Then like one
Speaker 1: of our homeboys that I went to school with, this
Speaker 1: kid Mike. He could sing, and Shaye was like, you know,
Speaker 1: she's my best friends. So say Mike and myself we
Speaker 1: would go over to Chad's house and then we would
Speaker 1: just like make demos and we weren't really we didn't
Speaker 1: even know they were demos until like, you know, a
Speaker 1: year or two into and realized, oh, we're making a demo.
Speaker 1: And then we like, you know, we had a series
Speaker 1: of like short lived management arrangements and then eventually we
Speaker 1: got to Teddy. And when we got to Teddy, he
Speaker 1: discovered us in a high school talent show through you know,
Speaker 1: this guy Omar Chandler and then also Tammy Lucas, who
Speaker 1: was the one that said to Teddy, you need to
Speaker 1: pay attention to these guys. And so he asked me
Speaker 1: to come to the studio and when he did, he
Speaker 1: gave me a shot to to write on something that
Speaker 1: ended up being a rump Shaker. So I wrote his
Speaker 1: verse for it. And at the time we as a group,
Speaker 1: we were called the Neptunes, and then we had like
Speaker 1: one record deal. We were signing to Michael Jackson's label MJJ.
Speaker 1: So the Neptune started as a performance group, as a
Speaker 1: as an artist, not as a producing group. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: we were just artists, but we could also like make
Speaker 1: beats and shiite and so like. Because he had us
Speaker 1: produced a song called Tonight's Tonight on the first Black
Speaker 1: Street album, and then we eventually did use Your Heart
Speaker 1: and Win This Feeling for as WV and then we
Speaker 1: did when Boy Meets Girl for Total and so we
Speaker 1: just started producing all these songs. And then eventually because
Speaker 1: we kept trying to get a record deal the entire
Speaker 1: time while we were producing songs, but like I was
Speaker 1: so fucking crazy and like out of my mind with
Speaker 1: like my style and the way that I dressed, the
Speaker 1: record company was like who are you? You're weird, Get
Speaker 1: the funk out of here. You got just stick to
Speaker 1: making music. And I was like, all right, fuck it.
Speaker 1: So then we uh, you know, my my manager introduced
Speaker 1: us to Kalie. We met Calice and we started like
Speaker 1: producing it for her, did an album for her over
Speaker 1: at Virgin, and then Virgin was like, man, you guys
Speaker 1: should also make an album too, and we were like
Speaker 1: all right. At that time, I was like I don't
Speaker 1: think that we should be we should use the same
Speaker 1: name we used, which was originally our group name that
Speaker 1: had now become a production name, which is me and Chat.
Speaker 1: We should just be an RD. So the Neptunes in
Speaker 1: the very beginning was us as a group, and then
Speaker 1: we just continue to produce. Did you ever play live
Speaker 1: as the Neptunes? Yeah? It was a disaster. Was it
Speaker 1: a fond memory disaster? No? Disaster. I don't like myself anyways.
Speaker 1: When I look back at myself ten years ago, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm a dude, Why did I do that? Why am
Speaker 1: I saying that? Why am I dressed like that? Oh?
Speaker 1: My goodness? I mean that is I'm just one of
Speaker 1: those types of aries, you know, I'm never really pleased
Speaker 1: with what I've done ten years ago, and completely don't
Speaker 1: even want to think about what I where I was
Speaker 1: at twenty years ago. So there you have it. So,
Speaker 1: if you were to go back in time, would you
Speaker 1: make the music that you made then different than you
Speaker 1: made it then? No, because I understand that that is
Speaker 1: the reason where I am now. I am ever so
Speaker 1: grateful that people give me the opportunity to be as
Speaker 1: left of center as I am at times, and you know,
Speaker 1: just take those shots at the time because you know,
Speaker 1: as aries were impulsive. But then when you're impulsive, you
Speaker 1: got to be able to live with those, you know,
Speaker 1: those impulses. And sometimes I can and other times I can't.
Speaker 1: But that's okay, because that's why I constantly like to
Speaker 1: move forward. In the cases in those days when Neptunes
Speaker 1: was a production group pre n r D, would you
Speaker 1: just make tracks and then find homes for them, or
Speaker 1: would it be more of a case of an artist
Speaker 1: wants to make a record and then you're making something
Speaker 1: targeted in mind with that artist in mind. Both so
Speaker 1: there might be songs that would have been Neptune songs
Speaker 1: that might have been had you signed a deal, they
Speaker 1: would have been on your record, but then they ended
Speaker 1: up being on someone else's record because you didn't have
Speaker 1: a record deal. Yeah. Sure, And there are times, you
Speaker 1: know it's still up to this day, I'll do something
Speaker 1: for someone and they're like, it doesn't make sense to me,
Speaker 1: and you know, someone else here's and it goes man,
Speaker 1: that's for me, and I go okay, cool. And then
Speaker 1: there's also times where like that song would come out
Speaker 1: and the original artist would be like, man, why don't
Speaker 1: you make me something like that? And it's like I did. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's because sometimes people are not hearing what you're hearing. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: Like when you watch somebody like making something and you
Speaker 1: don't know what they're doing or where they're going, and
Speaker 1: you just like don't get it, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden they do one thing and it just go, oh,
Speaker 1: you go get it now. Music the same way. What
Speaker 1: would be a song if you were to pick a
Speaker 1: song from that pre n R D era for us
Speaker 1: to listen to, what would be one that you that
Speaker 1: would feel good to listen to? I don't remember not
Speaker 1: one single song. Really, I don't, Man, I don't a
Speaker 1: lot of times I don't remember my songs. I understand.
Speaker 1: I'm such a where are we going now? Kind of person? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really don't going into the past. I'm really not
Speaker 1: so good at that. So my way of curating, you know,
Speaker 1: Like that's why I'm like like not a good DJ.
Speaker 1: Like I'm never DJ to my life, like really like
Speaker 1: like really, yeah, Now, if you ask me a bunch
Speaker 1: of songs that I think make me feel amazing, I'll
Speaker 1: rattle off a bunch of them. But Q Tip is amazing.
Speaker 1: It's an amazing DJ because he can do all of
Speaker 1: the above, whereas like I am literally I don't know
Speaker 1: how to do that. Yeah, it's a particular skill set.
Speaker 1: I feel like also quest love like when he I
Speaker 1: just love listening to music. When he programs, it blows
Speaker 1: my mind. That guy forget it. Of course, this is amazing.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Farrell and Rick
Speaker 1: after the break, we're back with more of Rick's conversation
Speaker 1: with Pharrell. Tell me about your experience with Dat pump Man.
Speaker 1: They really are I mean, like they're amazing people, you know,
Speaker 1: and they really just love music in a different kind
Speaker 1: of way. And it's interesting that we know them as
Speaker 1: robots because they have a lot of feeling, but their
Speaker 1: level of execution is very algorithmic. Like I would compare
Speaker 1: them to like AI. Wow. Cool, let's listen. Let's listen
Speaker 1: to Get Lucky. Tell me what you remember about the
Speaker 1: making of that man. We were obviously in France. I
Speaker 1: remember being super jet lagged. So Gimon had this stuff
Speaker 1: called Gronson and it's like what you take when you're
Speaker 1: like jet lagged. It's like you put it in water.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like alka seltzer. Is it a herb?
Speaker 1: Or is it a pharmaceutical. No, it's like a over
Speaker 1: the counter. It's just like in France, kind of like
Speaker 1: five hours or something like that. He was like, here this,
Speaker 1: you'll be fine. He put that ship in the water.
Speaker 1: I drink it, and I was like, like the legend
Speaker 1: of the Phoenix, and what the fuck was I talking about? Man?
Speaker 1: Like the legend of the Phoenix all ends with beginnings.
Speaker 1: What keeps the planet spinning? The foursome the beginning pretty great.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, holy shit, it was a session, man.
Speaker 1: We did that and we didn't lose yourself to dance.
Speaker 1: We did both of those songs. I thought I was
Speaker 1: writing it for somebody else. I could have swore that
Speaker 1: was a conversation. Do you know those guys you know
Speaker 1: you finished the session and it's over, and you know
Speaker 1: you don't speak to them again. For like, it might
Speaker 1: have been like six months that we heard from them,
Speaker 1: but I didn't hear it until like a year. I
Speaker 1: think I heard from them like, oh, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: you know we're gonna keep you on a song. I
Speaker 1: was like, keep me on a song, like I thought
Speaker 1: it was for someone else, And then I didn't hear
Speaker 1: it until it was mixed. And I was. I was
Speaker 1: blown away. Yeah, I really was. That's nice. That must
Speaker 1: be a nice experience because usually you're so hands on
Speaker 1: with the things you make, so to have someone else
Speaker 1: make it and have it be that good, it's gotta
Speaker 1: be a great feeling. I was incredibly honored. You know,
Speaker 1: those guys are the best at what they do. Beautiful
Speaker 1: that that said. As good as the track is, the
Speaker 1: vocal melodies, the words, the catchiness of the hook, I
Speaker 1: don't know that that that we would know that track
Speaker 1: if it was not for the for what the vocals doing.
Speaker 1: So excellent work. Thank you. Tell me about your experience
Speaker 1: with Beck. Beck is another prolific genius and his fans know,
Speaker 1: but more people should know how genius that man is.
Speaker 1: That's a genius guy. Absolutely, that guy's a treasure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the way that he writes, the way that
Speaker 1: he thinks, the ship that he wants to do. You know,
Speaker 1: people say genre bending. Beck is just like he literally
Speaker 1: just considers music to be music, and you just cannot.
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy did new pollution. That's it, that's nothing,
Speaker 1: that's nothing else to talk about. The guy did new pollution.
Speaker 1: Have you heard new pollution? Have you fucking heard New Pollution.
Speaker 1: It's incredible. What the fuck? And his folk songs are incredible.
Speaker 1: You know, his acoustic folk songs are brilliant. He is
Speaker 1: a genius. Period we were this last album, Hyperspace. We
Speaker 1: worked on that album for seven years. Seven years? Did
Speaker 1: it did it evolve over the seven years or was
Speaker 1: it clear what it was going to be from the
Speaker 1: beginning and it just took seven years to get there.
Speaker 1: I don't I have no idea. I don't know how
Speaker 1: he works, man, I don't know. I know I spent like,
Speaker 1: there's like four years. I'm like, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: We got four songs, put it on the record. What
Speaker 1: are we doing? Yeah? He's like, no, not yet. We
Speaker 1: get together again, and then like I don't know what
Speaker 1: comes up that. Then we get together again, get a
Speaker 1: couple of songs, and then we get together again. And
Speaker 1: after that, this is like seven years and then you
Speaker 1: just hear the whole masterpiece and I'm just looking at
Speaker 1: this guy going wow. And he got some of my
Speaker 1: best ship from me at that time. So he's just
Speaker 1: just like cherry picking. It's like, you know, okay, froll,
Speaker 1: just you know, come over, let's work. I'm going to
Speaker 1: sift through your you know, you're a contemporary vineyard of inspiration.
Speaker 1: I'll take these grapes. I'll take those grapes and see
Speaker 1: you later, Farrell. I'll catch you, like, no, don't worry,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't worry. You know. A couple of
Speaker 1: years later, it's like wine, small fuckers, like a small
Speaker 1: air or some shit. It's like, okay, it's going to rain, Frell,
Speaker 1: come by, bring the vineyards. Okay, Okay, these are choice grapes.
Speaker 1: This will be nice for a white white. Nope, you
Speaker 1: know what. These are better for a cabinet. And then
Speaker 1: you look up and ship and then like you guys
Speaker 1: are nominated for a fucking Grammy seven years later, I mean,
Speaker 1: cheers to that genius. Yeah. I remember I got a
Speaker 1: copy of Morning Phase early before it came out, and
Speaker 1: and I remember being told, you know, this is kind
Speaker 1: of and this is not his next album after this
Speaker 1: is the big album. This isn't the big This is
Speaker 1: just like something he's working on, like this is like
Speaker 1: personal thing. And I listened to it and it was
Speaker 1: the best album maybe that I've heard in I don't
Speaker 1: know five years. Like as I called him up right
Speaker 1: away It's like, this is not an in between album.
Speaker 1: This is not a small album. This is masterful. He's
Speaker 1: that bro. Yeah, let's listen to love his chemical just fun.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, credible. It's a good sign of everything we've
Speaker 1: listened to that made you smile the most. It's a
Speaker 1: really good sign because you know what, there's like, no,
Speaker 1: there's nothing on it except just pure like that guy's
Speaker 1: just free. Man. Yeah, you know, and I want everybody
Speaker 1: like that. You can feel it, you can feel it.
Speaker 1: So tell me what was it that he What was
Speaker 1: it that you gave him to start from that ended
Speaker 1: up there? Music? Yeah, the music and like melodies and
Speaker 1: some songs I wrote lyrics on as well along with melodies.
Speaker 1: He just knows, you know. I would just play him
Speaker 1: shit and he just would know, like, okay, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: go there. You know that's like a dream. It's just
Speaker 1: so beautiful, so beautiful. Thank you. I'm honored, I really am. Man.
Speaker 1: You know the crazy thing I'm talking to Rick Rubin
Speaker 1: right now. I remember Rock the Bells. I told you
Speaker 1: this before, but I remember Rock the Bells as a child.
Speaker 1: You know, when people were saying like who's cool or
Speaker 1: like lll or or cool mood and you had done
Speaker 1: a lot of ll and all the stuff on Death Cham.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing your name on those on those like cassettes,
Speaker 1: and I'm like actually talking to you right now, and
Speaker 1: you're like actually fucking curious about anything that has to
Speaker 1: do with me and U Chad Hugo, and I just
Speaker 1: gotta say, like, you know, life is crazy, right because
Speaker 1: you know, things can be so great, and at the
Speaker 1: same time, we're always reminded that just next door it
Speaker 1: can be it can be misfortune next door. And that's
Speaker 1: been one of the hardest things for me because every
Speaker 1: time I slip and allow myself to get too happy,
Speaker 1: I'm reminded that on the other side of fortune is misfortune. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I just you know, this is like a pinch yourself moment.
Speaker 1: But just like you know, listening to that song and
Speaker 1: feeling that way about that music and then going a shit,
Speaker 1: I'm up here talking to Rick Rubin about music and
Speaker 1: he actually cares about what I think. Like I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not Kanye, I'm not Stevie Wonder or you know,
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell or you know Michael I'm not any of
Speaker 1: those like really super legendary people. I'm from Virginia Beach, Virginia.
Speaker 1: All the people you mentioned are just people who are
Speaker 1: from where they're from, who love music and shared the
Speaker 1: best of themselves with us and enriched our lives and
Speaker 1: inspired us to want to do the same thing. It's
Speaker 1: it's very much of a community of like minded people
Speaker 1: who are all contributing something. We get something from it.
Speaker 1: It turns us on, it excites us, and then we
Speaker 1: find our way in and you know, if we're lucky,
Speaker 1: we get to participate. But it's it's all beyond us.
Speaker 1: It's beyond it's beyond you, it's beyond me, it's beyond
Speaker 1: all the people you mentioned. What's coming through is much bigger.
Speaker 1: We're just blessed that we get to participate it. And
Speaker 1: it comes from love, you know, That's where it is.
Speaker 1: It's like the love is the connection that allows it
Speaker 1: to come through. Still honored to be a part of
Speaker 1: you know, honored to be a Comma and one tiny
Speaker 1: sentence in the and the Great Book of Music. Same
Speaker 1: on that note, let's listen to drop it like it's hot. Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: you remember the first time you heard him sing the
Speaker 1: hook that way? Yeah, we were in the studio and
Speaker 1: he was in there. You know, Snoop is tall. Snoop
Speaker 1: is like six foot like I don't know, or three
Speaker 1: four or something like that. He was in the studio
Speaker 1: with no less than fifteen dudes that were all as
Speaker 1: tall as him, and then he had these two security
Speaker 1: guys that were absolutely north of seven foot. You know,
Speaker 1: they were smoking. Have you ever been like in like
Speaker 1: New York, like when the fog is there and you're
Speaker 1: like in a skyscraper and you literally can see like
Speaker 1: where the fog starts. Yes, that's what it was like
Speaker 1: being in the room with all those dudes, just a
Speaker 1: layer of smoke in the sky. It was a layer
Speaker 1: of smoke that you just would never believe. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You stood up, you were gonna be high for a
Speaker 1: week contact wise, and was making the Beatum. I did
Speaker 1: my verse. He was like, pee, say we got one.
Speaker 1: We knew it was we knew it was special. I
Speaker 1: loved Let's get blown. Let's Get Blown was just like
Speaker 1: such a zone to me, Like it was just so
Speaker 1: like what is that? You know? We were so inspired
Speaker 1: by Steve Arrington and the label was like we're gonna
Speaker 1: put that out, but now now you're tripping, We're gonna
Speaker 1: come with dropper like a side and I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, cool, And that's the same thing happened with Beautiful. Right.
Speaker 1: We made From the Church to the Palace and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh man, I love Church to the Palace.
Speaker 1: They were like, yeah, that's cool, but this record beautiful
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, but I'm on there sounding
Speaker 1: like a sick billy goat and they were like, because,
Speaker 1: by the way, still to this day, I think the
Speaker 1: cook too Beautiful is detuned. I think when I or
Speaker 1: out of tune, yea, I think I'm about it sooom.
Speaker 1: I think I'm pitchy. I think I'm flat. But I
Speaker 1: don't know why people fuck with it. Let's listen. Let's
Speaker 1: listen to it. Let's listen to that beautiful. Yeah. What's
Speaker 1: cool about hip hop is that if you are singing
Speaker 1: a little out of tune, it's hip hop. Aka I was,
Speaker 1: But I feel like sometimes when I hear it tuny
Speaker 1: vocals in hip hop, it feels more like hip hop
Speaker 1: music than you know, like a slick hook on a
Speaker 1: rap track. Yeah, it's true. I mean, it's just it
Speaker 1: just gives it more like a little bit more personality
Speaker 1: and it just feels a little bit more like real
Speaker 1: and authentic to whatever the person was trying to express,
Speaker 1: just like you appreciate that person being a little flat
Speaker 1: because they mean it. Yeah, it feels like it's a
Speaker 1: moment in time. You know that you believe that it's
Speaker 1: really happening. Yeah, I'm meant it. But I never thought
Speaker 1: that record would do what it did. Typically, when you're
Speaker 1: when you're making something new, you go into the studio,
Speaker 1: you have an idea to start something new. Might you
Speaker 1: be influenced by something that you heard recently, might be
Speaker 1: influenced by something that you can remember from childhood, or
Speaker 1: is it more of a clean slate. I love that
Speaker 1: which doesn't exist. That's like my favorite. And then there
Speaker 1: are times where you just like you go, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I love the feeling of that. I don't want that sound,
Speaker 1: but I love that feeling. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Let me let me how do I reverse engineer that feeling?
Speaker 1: And in their moments where you go, man, I love that,
Speaker 1: I love that like groove, but what if it was
Speaker 1: in a It's like I love that groove aka Silhouette,
Speaker 1: But what if it was like with all complete different
Speaker 1: chords of colors, you know what I mean. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just it just depends. Sometimes it's just left the center,
Speaker 1: like dropping like it's high, and then other times it's like, man,
Speaker 1: I love the feeling that I felt when I when
Speaker 1: I hurt, busting loose as a kid, you know. So
Speaker 1: then we try to reverse the engineer that energy and
Speaker 1: and and we make cotton here. It's like if you're
Speaker 1: playing back to back, you realize it's like really completely different,
Speaker 1: but the feeling, you know. So it's almost like you
Speaker 1: hear a song and you imagine if that song was
Speaker 1: a whole genre of music, what would the other songs
Speaker 1: in that genre sound like. That's exactly right, the brother
Speaker 1: of it, the cousin of it. You know. It's like
Speaker 1: Mario and Warrio. You know, there's Mario and then there's
Speaker 1: his evil you know, there's the evil version of Mario,
Speaker 1: which is Warrio. And that's what I like to do.
Speaker 1: I find sometimes that's a great starting point. And sometimes
Speaker 1: during the process of looking for the thing like it,
Speaker 1: you end up going somewhere completely different that was unexpected,
Speaker 1: and you just get surprised. You know. Yeah, you just
Speaker 1: have to keep chasing. We'll be right back with Farrell.
Speaker 1: After this quick break, here's the rest of Rick's conversation
Speaker 1: with Pharrell Williams. Can you remember the last thing that
Speaker 1: you heard where that you didn't make, that you just
Speaker 1: heard and your mind was blown, like just like this
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. Thundercat them changes and it just hit you
Speaker 1: right away first time. It's just like h Scott Venner
Speaker 1: played me that song and I said, what in the fuck?
Speaker 1: And we played it? He played it, I played it.
Speaker 1: I made him play that ship over and over again,
Speaker 1: like maybe twenty times. I could not believe what I
Speaker 1: was feeling. Such a great feeling, isn't it? Oh my goodness?
Speaker 1: I was like, what is this? Kim Burrell's you know,
Speaker 1: Holy Ghost, that's really unbelievable. I mean, She's just unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Don Tolliver's no idea, Wow, what the hell? And then
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, there was like just a
Speaker 1: thousand of them that just would blow my brains as out,
Speaker 1: like blow my heart out, blow my organs out, blow
Speaker 1: my existence out of my body, like the systems don't Disturb,
Speaker 1: Discroove or Beach Boys, sail On Sailor or Benita Apple
Speaker 1: bomb by trip call quests, or many repretends the reasons
Speaker 1: or Donny Hathaways take a love song Lady in My Life,
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Johnny Mitchell, Don't it always seemed to go
Speaker 1: that you don't know what you got to list on?
Speaker 1: When she also sings help me Johnny Mitchell helped me.
Speaker 1: When you would hear one of those records, how often
Speaker 1: put you listen to it over and over and over
Speaker 1: and over and over and over again. I listened to
Speaker 1: him Benita apple Bomb. I would have it on a
Speaker 1: loop for like an hour straight. When I was I
Speaker 1: was really young, I listened to that song over and
Speaker 1: over again because I could not understand why it made
Speaker 1: me feel that way. And then I realized that those
Speaker 1: were the chords, and I realized that, you know, while
Speaker 1: that song was from Roy Air's musical production, a song
Speaker 1: called Daylight, the whole song was that I loved it
Speaker 1: because it was doing what bridges typically did, progression chord
Speaker 1: progression wise. So if you listen to the Roy Air
Speaker 1: song that inspired it or that it was based on,
Speaker 1: would that have the same effect on you or not?
Speaker 1: Necessarily it did. It did because the chords were the saying.
Speaker 1: But I, of course I loved the Tribe version. You know,
Speaker 1: you to pick the best pocket in a Footprints another one?
Speaker 1: Can you just play that song real quick? Tribe called
Speaker 1: Footprints Really fun listening to that with you, and I
Speaker 1: just learned something about hip hop just now just listening
Speaker 1: to that. In the days of hip hop being based
Speaker 1: on a sample like this is, the sample's picked and
Speaker 1: then additional tracks are put in to reinforce the sound,
Speaker 1: and then sometimes the sample goes away and then we're
Speaker 1: only left with the new stuff and sometimes so the
Speaker 1: sample works in different ways. But it's almost like we
Speaker 1: learn more about the original song through this hip hop record,
Speaker 1: because it's like we've taken this piece of music and
Speaker 1: put it in an X ray machine and we get
Speaker 1: to see the different layers of it and the DNA
Speaker 1: of it, and we examine it in a way that
Speaker 1: doesn't get to happen when we just listen to the
Speaker 1: original in its original holistic version. There's a unity and
Speaker 1: balance that gets upset in the hip hop process to
Speaker 1: create something new, and we get to learn so much
Speaker 1: through this process. It's amazing. I never really realized that
Speaker 1: for just now listening with you, that is called tripical
Speaker 1: quests that's what that's what they that's what they do.
Speaker 1: They make you listen to music, and they teach you
Speaker 1: how they hear music. They teach you how to appreciate
Speaker 1: something that you might have just skipped over because it
Speaker 1: was only four bars or two bars and something and
Speaker 1: you never got to hear it again, or it just
Speaker 1: came like two or three times in the song, but
Speaker 1: that wasn't where the hook was, and so you ignored it.
Speaker 1: They go, no, no, no, no, this part right here,
Speaker 1: and like you said, you walk away going, well, what
Speaker 1: is that sample? And then you go back and listen
Speaker 1: to that record. It's like you listen to it and
Speaker 1: you appreciate it very differently, and then you go, wow,
Speaker 1: they heard that part. And I don't never forget. When
Speaker 1: I blah because I got the album because of Beneath
Speaker 1: Apple Bump, I was like, man, I don't give a
Speaker 1: shit if the rest of the album is trash, that's
Speaker 1: all I want to hear. Man. When I got that
Speaker 1: album and listen from the top, first song is good,
Speaker 1: second song is good, third songs good. And then that
Speaker 1: song came on and I was and I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: the other songs are good. Yeah, you know, the luck
Speaker 1: of Lucienne, like push it Along. All those songs are great.
Speaker 1: When Footprints came in, I remember thinking to myself, first
Speaker 1: of all, those chords are nocturnal. I don't see sunshine
Speaker 1: when I hear that. So that was the first thing
Speaker 1: that blew my mind. I was like, oh shit, I'm
Speaker 1: listening to this song and they have looped up something
Speaker 1: that makes me think of nighttime. Some certain songs, the
Speaker 1: chords make me think of, you know, four or five
Speaker 1: in the morning, right when the sun is coming up
Speaker 1: and it's kind of blue outside, it's not quite sunny yet,
Speaker 1: and it's coming out of night it's coming out of nighttime.
Speaker 1: It's like that, you know, four fifty to six o'clock time.
Speaker 1: And then there's the same thing that happens in the evening.
Speaker 1: When I heard Footprints, it felt like eleven o'clock at night,
Speaker 1: full moon, concord blue, there's some purple in there, and
Speaker 1: like the beigeness of the moon. That's what That's what
Speaker 1: I heard. And I heard that on Loop and that
Speaker 1: was like alchemy to me, and I just was like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck is this? Like, Okay, my friends are
Speaker 1: obsessed with like sports and football players and like basketball
Speaker 1: players and Jordan is amazing and we love the sneakers.
Speaker 1: This track, though, it's made me think of nighttime. And
Speaker 1: every time this sample comes in, which I didn't know
Speaker 1: what's called a sample at the time, but every time
Speaker 1: that loop came in, I was like, it makes me
Speaker 1: think of nighttime? What the fuck is this? Like? What's
Speaker 1: going on? And then when I heard beneath Albabam, that
Speaker 1: was like time to me, and it was kind of
Speaker 1: blue with like pinks in it, and I'd start like, Wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is crazy this music. This is like rap music
Speaker 1: that's making me think of colors, the way that, like
Speaker 1: Stevie wondered, music may makes me think of colors. I
Speaker 1: had never experienced that before. Would you listen in your
Speaker 1: room or would you listen outside walking around? Where where
Speaker 1: paint the picture of what the scene looked like? Sometimes
Speaker 1: I would like listen to my listening to my room,
Speaker 1: when other times I would go and sitting in my parents'
Speaker 1: car when it was raining and listen but with my
Speaker 1: headphones because I liked being in the rain. That's the
Speaker 1: other thing too, Rain is like everything for me. I
Speaker 1: was always obsessed with rain as a kid, That's how
Speaker 1: we ended up being called the Neptune's Water. What was
Speaker 1: the first time you got to see music live? I
Speaker 1: was like five years old. I don't remember this, but
Speaker 1: it was a story. We went to King's Dominion, which
Speaker 1: is like this Dame Park and we I guess they
Speaker 1: lost me somehow and they found me. I was over
Speaker 1: dancing to Kenny Rogers, good singer, pretty crazy. What's the
Speaker 1: first one you remember? Oh, Eric being rock Kim at
Speaker 1: Da Hampton Colliseam And how was that amazing? Rock? Him
Speaker 1: was every thing I mean lyrically that God, the stuff
Speaker 1: that he would say, and where he was coming from,
Speaker 1: and his tone and his rhythm, and that was all
Speaker 1: crazy for me. Anything else you feel like would be
Speaker 1: helpful for us to talk about, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think I'm in a state of like gratitude at the moment. Beautiful,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's a constant exercise. It's a constant exercise.
Speaker 1: The best exercises one could do mind, body, and soul,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of physical exercises that you can do,
Speaker 1: but they're not necessarily they required the mental, but they
Speaker 1: may not be as spiritual. But these are three spiritual
Speaker 1: exercises three mental and physical exercises, which is gratitude, empathy,
Speaker 1: and humility. And you know, talking to you right now
Speaker 1: and just when you asked me to go back, when
Speaker 1: you ask me about these songs or music or whatever.
Speaker 1: What it does is it transports you back in time
Speaker 1: and you remember who you were and what was going
Speaker 1: on and what was your reality. And so it's just
Speaker 1: humbling when you fast forward back to where you are now.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh shit, man, so much has happened, and
Speaker 1: I'm just I guess I'm just ever so grateful. You know,
Speaker 1: God was so patient with me. I wasn't on it
Speaker 1: like I needed to be. How much of you now
Speaker 1: is the same kid listening to Tribe on the headphones.
Speaker 1: I mean you just saw it. I mean Footprints just
Speaker 1: took me right back, you know, to be in fifteen
Speaker 1: sixteen or whatever I was at whatever age I was
Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, music has that incredible transformative power
Speaker 1: to change everything. I can remember when I was a
Speaker 1: kid and really didn't feel connected to anything. The first
Speaker 1: time I really felt connected to anything, it was music.
Speaker 1: It's so magical. It's so crazy. Man, We're living in
Speaker 1: a different time where like these ethereal connections that we
Speaker 1: have to various points in our lives and various points
Speaker 1: of our personality feel more effervescent than they ever have before.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's because the Internet is alive
Speaker 1: now well because we just are where we are culturally.
Speaker 1: You know, we're in the age of Aquarius, so everything
Speaker 1: is up in the air. So I just it's crazy
Speaker 1: because I could feel it. Yeah, I think we were
Speaker 1: lucky to grow up when we did. I agree. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you about one one more thing because
Speaker 1: it speaks something you said earlier about about listening to
Speaker 1: the Tribe album and how it made you feel. And
Speaker 1: it feels like the relationship people's relationship to music has changed,
Speaker 1: and the album as a format seems less, i want
Speaker 1: to say, less relevant than it used to. And if
Speaker 1: you could speak a bit to the feeling of the
Speaker 1: album as a thing, the idea of the container of
Speaker 1: the album when we were younger was a key feature
Speaker 1: of it. Like you said, you bought the album for
Speaker 1: one song, hoping the rest of it would be good.
Speaker 1: But if the rest of it wasn't good, that might happen.
Speaker 1: And you remember the ones where it was one song
Speaker 1: that got you to buy it, but the whole album
Speaker 1: was good, that changed your life. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: that people have that experience as much today. Well, because
Speaker 1: there's more of a democracy and you're not forced to
Speaker 1: buy a whole bunch of things that you don't know
Speaker 1: anything about. You can try things, you know. Do you
Speaker 1: think there's something being missed though by not getting to
Speaker 1: get that experience of you know, Dark Side of the
Speaker 1: Moon as a body of work. Well, that was Pink
Speaker 1: Floyd and Dark Side of the Moon. Right, if every
Speaker 1: album was at I think the argument would stand. But
Speaker 1: because every album is not, and because the point of
Speaker 1: vitry is so wide for so many people to come
Speaker 1: in and make music. What is a beautiful thing is
Speaker 1: that you got a lot of one hit wonders and
Speaker 1: you can sometimes you got two hit Wonders, three hit
Speaker 1: Wonders or one album. But like, it's not like it
Speaker 1: used to be because the point of entry is so wide.
Speaker 1: So I don't know that, you know, unless you're getting
Speaker 1: two thousand Pink Floyds, then it probably is good at
Speaker 1: Its just way that people get a chance to just
Speaker 1: taste tests until they feel like they've figured out who
Speaker 1: makes a great meal. And then versus who makes a
Speaker 1: good side dish. I still find myself if I hear
Speaker 1: something that I haven't heard before, whether it be new
Speaker 1: or old, I usually want to go deeper and listen
Speaker 1: to everything the artist was doing in that period and
Speaker 1: try to get a sense of beyond the song, who
Speaker 1: they are, where they are, where, where it comes from.
Speaker 1: That's not a bad thing. You should continue to do that,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't always deliver, and that's because there's so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's endless. It can't all be good. It definitely. All
Speaker 1: can't be great. Absolutely, On the other side, they can't
Speaker 1: all be bad, right, but it but one thing that
Speaker 1: it is is all and because you're dealing with all,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to taste tests absolutely, And I do
Speaker 1: love the ability to anything I think of be able
Speaker 1: to call it up and listen to it on demand
Speaker 1: versus you know, having to wait for it. It's really
Speaker 1: nice being able to find all music all the time.
Speaker 1: It's a great way to listen. So it's like a
Speaker 1: dream growing up in a place the way we did
Speaker 1: to now get to this place where it's literally all
Speaker 1: music on demand at all times. It's a miracle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful to see and experience. Cool Man. I love you, Blessings,
Speaker 1: my brother be blessed, and most importantly, be a blessing.
Speaker 1: Thanks to for Herrell for taking time out of his
Speaker 1: studio work to chat and reminisce with Rick. You can
Speaker 1: hear all of Horrell's favorite songs that he mentioned on
Speaker 1: a playlist at broken Record podcast dot com. Plus to
Speaker 1: listen to some of his favorite hits that he sent
Speaker 1: Rick just before the interview. Be sure to suscribe to
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcasts.
Speaker 1: There you can find extended cuts of new and old episodes.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and is executive produced by MIO Label.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries, and if
Speaker 1: you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast at our team. Music is
Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm Jessin Richmond bass