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Speaker 1: to you soon. Thank you. Hey guys, welcome to another

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Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I Am Devin, joined

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Speaker 1: as usual by and Steve. Today we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: a mystery, weird disappearance. In fact, it's like true crime

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Speaker 1: kind of crazy. That actually is kind of crazy the

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Speaker 1: celebration of crime con So we're gonna talk about crimes

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Speaker 1: for a little while. Yeah, that works for me. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the nineteen seventy four so super

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Speaker 1: recent disappearance of seventeen year old Amy Billig, who disappear

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Speaker 1: while hitchhiking in to her father's office or art gallery

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Speaker 1: or something place of work, place of war w e

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Speaker 1: W during to his POW. There have been some reported

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Speaker 1: leads over the past forty some years about her whereabouts,

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Speaker 1: but she has never been found, nor have any remains

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Quick warning, there is a moment

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Speaker 1: of discussion on some sexually explicit stuff, so big and

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Speaker 1: little ear warnings for that if that's not your change

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Speaker 1: to you know, all sizes. Yeah, and finally, before we

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Speaker 1: hop in, I want to thank listener Christie for being

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Speaker 1: the first person to suggest this mystery. If you've suggested

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Speaker 1: something recently, you may have found that we started saying,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's on the list, and we might have

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Speaker 1: stopped adding names to the list. I add them. So

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Speaker 1: that's good for you in yourself addressed and stamped envelope,

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Speaker 1: and we will return your prize. We don't actually star,

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Speaker 1: which is your self addressed stamped envelope back to you. Everybody,

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Speaker 1: you really want to suggest stories, it's fine. Let's start

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, shall we. Amy was born on January nine,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seven, to loving parents and a reportedly normal home.

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Speaker 1: She had at least one brother. I've only ever seen

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Speaker 1: reports of one brother, but I never even heard what

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Speaker 1: his name is. Actually I did see it, and I

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Speaker 1: don't remember it because he is such a tryan or something.

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Speaker 1: I read it. I read an article with him. It

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Speaker 1: was an interview with him, because he was only a

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Speaker 1: couple of years younger. Is still yes, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: he's still couple of years younger. Um, but I don't

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Speaker 1: remember his name. I'm really sorry. I'm sorry if you're listening, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: looking at really good research right off the top. She

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Speaker 1: was enrolled in high school at the time of her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: Amy enjoyed music, including playing both the flute and the guitar.

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Speaker 1: She was an avid reader and writer and wanted to

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about becoming an actress at the time

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Speaker 1: because she was seventeen. She was also a very dedicated

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Speaker 1: vegetarian and generally described as kind of a flower child,

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Speaker 1: free spirit, sort of empathetic, and she was a child

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Speaker 1: of the sixties, so that crap was more popular back

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Speaker 1: in those days. Y. Yeah, it was. Yeah. I'm not

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Speaker 1: really clear how this works the layout of the day

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Speaker 1: that she disappeared, but on the day of her disappearance,

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Speaker 1: which was a Tuesday, um March five, nineteen seventy four,

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Speaker 1: she came home from school at noon for lunch, which

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Speaker 1: sounds like it was the end of her day for

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Speaker 1: that day. She was a senior, so sometimes you get

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Speaker 1: you know, you have your half days because you stacked

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Speaker 1: your courses that way. Sometimes well, depending on the school,

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Speaker 1: it's almost treated like college where you do certain classes

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Speaker 1: on certain days. That's stack days day Thursday afternoon class

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Speaker 1: totally yeah, or she just was skipping and you know

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Speaker 1: she ha hand, we're okay, but that this was the

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Speaker 1: early seven day school. Yeah, but she was going to happen.

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Speaker 1: You can get a factory job it's fine. Fine, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can still afford an entire house and to raise

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Speaker 1: a family of four on your salary. It's fine. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like that was at the end of her day.

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Speaker 1: Was at noon, she was coming home for lunch. Maybe

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Speaker 1: she was skipping the afternoon. I don't really know. It's

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Speaker 1: never ever explained what was happening on that afternoon. So

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Speaker 1: she was going to head off and do something with friends.

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Speaker 1: Apparently later that day. Um, Regardless, she went home on

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Speaker 1: this Tuesday for lunch, and then she called her father

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Speaker 1: and Ned asking for some money, either to go hang

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Speaker 1: out with her friends or for lunch. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: reported both ways. There's an alternate telling that, Um, she

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Speaker 1: basically was just she just went straight to his office

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Speaker 1: or art gallery. I think they're the same. Ned. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like played the trombone trumpet trumpet, not trombone and

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Speaker 1: owned an art gallery. That was what he did. So

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Speaker 1: something tromboni or artie. Yeah. No, So she needed money

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Speaker 1: and she called him and said, hey, can I come

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Speaker 1: get some money? And he said, yeah, you for a

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Speaker 1: couple of minutes and I'll get here. Yeah, you gotta

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Speaker 1: listen to me play. Yeah, but by the way, just

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Speaker 1: def why I think it was somebody on redditue said

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Speaker 1: he lived in Miami and said I actually knew where

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Speaker 1: her address was, where his place at work was there

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Speaker 1: about a mile apart. Yeah, it was not very far. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: could have walked minutes. Christ well me anyway, Well, she

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Speaker 1: was um well, And it's not clear again if she

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Speaker 1: did go home and then go to the art gallery

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Speaker 1: or just was headed from school to the art gallery.

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Speaker 1: Either way, she had called him for some money, started

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Speaker 1: walking there, never showed up. This was pre cell phone.

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Speaker 1: You will remember, some of you will remember pre cell

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Speaker 1: phone times. We will all of us in this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. But so I think her dad probably just

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Speaker 1: assumed she didn't end up not needing the money. So

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Speaker 1: it's fine, I'll see her tonight, you know, they do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or you know, maybe she found a twenty all or

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Speaker 1: bill in her pocket or something, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: It's fine, Uh those what I mean? You know, if

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Speaker 1: she found some money in her jeans at home or

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Speaker 1: something and decided, oh, I don't need sorry anyway, like

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Speaker 1: I said, didn't show up to pick up the money.

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Speaker 1: She also didn't show up to hang out with her

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Speaker 1: friends and I think her friends probably called the house. Again.

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Speaker 1: This is a really severely underreported part of this story,

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Speaker 1: this whole how it happened, Yeah, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: frustrating because I feel like there's a lot of details

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Speaker 1: in there that would have been really helpful to know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, like I've never been totally clear on if

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Speaker 1: her mother was at home when she arrived home, or

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Speaker 1: she talked to her mother any Yeah, based on the

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Speaker 1: stuff that her mother has said, I get the feeling

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Speaker 1: that no, mom was not. Yeah, I get the feeling

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Speaker 1: that they don't really know if she went home or

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Speaker 1: if she just had was heading straight to the art gallery. Reportedly,

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Speaker 1: she went home and changed her clothes from her school

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Speaker 1: clothes to her going out clothes and then was walking

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Speaker 1: to her father's gallery. But since the friends the time

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Speaker 1: and the friends didn't, you know, I guess they must

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Speaker 1: have called or something. But otherwise, her parents found out

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Speaker 1: that she hadn't shown up and they thought, oh, she's

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Speaker 1: probably missing then, and the my sense is that they

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Speaker 1: reported her missing in the appropriate time frame and that

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Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah blah blah. Right she was seventeen,

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Speaker 1: they did, Yeah, And once that was kind of pushed out.

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Speaker 1: Some construction workers said that, of course it was. They

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Speaker 1: were working on her route from her home to the

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Speaker 1: gallery and they saw her walk past, which is why

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Speaker 1: I think they figured she had gone home and they

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Speaker 1: just stand around. Anyway. She was wearing a men denim

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Speaker 1: minis sret and cork heels, so they guess we're the

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Speaker 1: last people to have seen her. As a construction worker.

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Speaker 1: You should be careful of just cat calling it, every lady,

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Speaker 1: because it might be the last person she sees. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true, and then you're gonna be guilty forever. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I think I didn't mention this, but the road

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Speaker 1: that she was walking down was a road called Main

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Speaker 1: Highway in the neighborhood Coconut Grove, which is in Miami, Florida.

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Speaker 1: It's often reported that she was hitchhiking along the road,

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Speaker 1: but you know, like Joe said, it was a mile are. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, I know from reports from her brother, he

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Speaker 1: said they hitch hiked around the neighborhood, and she particularly

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Speaker 1: hitch hiked around the neighborhood all the time, and her

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Speaker 1: parents knew about it, and they were like, it's a

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Speaker 1: friendly neighborhood and you know, it's it's safe, it's fine

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Speaker 1: for you to hitchhike around the neighborhood. But again, it

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Speaker 1: was only a mile, so I don't really know. Maybe

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Speaker 1: the heels were uncomfortable. I've certainly been in that situation

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Speaker 1: before where I've put on some new shoes because you know,

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Speaker 1: I was feeling myself and then started walking king and

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, this is the worst. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe she's walking down the road and somebody she

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Speaker 1: knew just stopped by and said he want to write,

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Speaker 1: or even somebody she didn't know just pulled over and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you want to write down the road and she

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, because are not scary? Yeah they are,

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Speaker 1: you know, your long haul taxi service. Yeah. So a

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Speaker 1: search at this point is conducted. It didn't come up

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Speaker 1: with anything. The family and the people who knew Amy

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Speaker 1: didn't feel like they she had just left voluntarily, like

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Speaker 1: she hadn't run away from home for instance. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, the police seemed to

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Speaker 1: have done their job. Though. Again, if this story is

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Speaker 1: started starting to sound familiar to you and you don't

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Speaker 1: really know why that is, it's because it was an

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Speaker 1: episode of Unsolved mysteries, and as happens with these cases,

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Speaker 1: it ends up that most of the reporting is kind

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Speaker 1: of whatever was in that episode, A lot of people

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Speaker 1: report that stuff as being fact. Yeah, well, not only

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Speaker 1: is it fact, but it also means that if they

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Speaker 1: leave out big chunks of the story, those big chunks

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Speaker 1: of the story tend to get lost to history. So

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Speaker 1: we don't know a whole lot about the initial investigation

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Speaker 1: because Unsolved Mysteries didn't seem to give a hoot about it.

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Speaker 1: How many times we talked about that we have, we

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot. So so this is where actually

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Speaker 1: you can actually be well served to get off the

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Speaker 1: Internet and go to your library and actually get a

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Speaker 1: book about this stuff. Because I looked in the past,

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Speaker 1: you find a lot of stuff that you just can't

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Speaker 1: find in the Yeah, or otherwise look at um newspaper

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Speaker 1: articles or something like that is really really great. I

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Speaker 1: found a couple of newspaper articles that we had used

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Speaker 1: the way back machine for for this one. That was helpful,

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Speaker 1: but they were still from you know, the early two thousand's,

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Speaker 1: so nothing nothing really from well, there was one from

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Speaker 1: even Some of the older stuff that I found was

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Speaker 1: very thin. Yeah, because this was the time when you

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Speaker 1: kids started disappearing and they maybe they were just they

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Speaker 1: just ran away. Yeah, especially at especially at seventeen, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think police often felt like, well, they just you know,

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Speaker 1: they went away. And when she met and sorry mom

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Speaker 1: and dad, but she's off happily living with the new boyfriend. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But Um, like I said, it does appear that the

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Speaker 1: police did their job. There was a lot of reporting,

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Speaker 1: at least in the Florida area about her disappearance. Um.

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Speaker 1: A few days after her disappearance, a man who had

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Speaker 1: heard about Amy's disappearance, I'm sorry keeps saying disappearance turned

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Speaker 1: in a camera o evacuation. Maybe a man who had

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Speaker 1: heard about Amy being missing turned in her camera, which

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Speaker 1: he said he had found near the Wildwood exit off

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Speaker 1: the Florida Turnpike. I've always wondered about the camera thing

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Speaker 1: was it actually was? It was right below the under

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Speaker 1: the lens she had her name was written, but it

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Speaker 1: actually was that keeps losing her camera? What? But probably

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Speaker 1: used one of those sticker like the one like Bart

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Speaker 1: Simpson had in that episode. Yeah, but for those of

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Speaker 1: you who are not familiar with Florida, so like everybody

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Speaker 1: even most people who live in Florida. Um. The that

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Speaker 1: exit of the turnpike is about fifty miles north of Orlando, Florida,

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Speaker 1: which means that the camera was about two hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy two miles away from Coconut Grove. So it's not

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Speaker 1: like whoops, you know, on the way to the gallery

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Speaker 1: she dropped her camera. It's a big old drive. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a perfectly and as an explanation, she probably pawned

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Speaker 1: the camera because she did want money. No, and this

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Speaker 1: does come with the caveat that it's really unclear if

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Speaker 1: Amy had her camera with her when she disappeared, or

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Speaker 1: if it had even maybe been stolen prior. Her parents

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Speaker 1: it sounds like couldn't say, you know, for a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks even that they had seen Amy with the camera.

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Speaker 1: So you know, maybe she did put it because she

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Speaker 1: was seventeen and felt like she needed money. She probably

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Speaker 1: maybe somebody stole it from her a couple of weeks before,

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Speaker 1: but also maybe it was or maybe it was connected

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Speaker 1: to the disappearance. It's almost impossible to tell. Three weeks

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Speaker 1: after Amy went missing, Sue Uh's mom Susan Sue, I've

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Speaker 1: been calling her Sue the entire time, but I don't

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Speaker 1: really know. I'm really sorry. Yeah she did pass away,

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Speaker 1: but sorry if that's not anyway, Sue got a call

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, or I guess the

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Speaker 1: Billings did. Yeah, both of them have passed away but

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Speaker 1: then passed away in nineteen three. When the calls started,

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Speaker 1: they were both living and living together. Sue answered the phone,

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Speaker 1: but it was dead air on the other end, so

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Speaker 1: she hung up in the words nobody there. Not even

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Speaker 1: the breathing. Well, no, it was breathing. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: could have been a breathing. She didn't say she could

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Speaker 1: hear the breathing, but it wasn't just like dial tone

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. So after she young up. A

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Speaker 1: few minutes after that, the phone ring again, she answered

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Speaker 1: dead air. A few minutes after that, when Sue answered

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Speaker 1: the phone because it was ringing again, she was pretty

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Speaker 1: sure at this point that it was Amy calling from

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Speaker 1: beyond the grave. No, just like you know, to say, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I love you, I'm safe for something, I mean, you know, anything,

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Speaker 1: trying to exactly. So Sue started to plea with Amy.

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Speaker 1: She was asking her to come home. Yeah, she's telling

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Speaker 1: her she loves her. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. This goes on

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Speaker 1: for almost five minutes UM, at which point Sue decides, Okay, nobody,

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Speaker 1: She's not gonna say anything, right, Amy's not gonna say anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna hang up. So she hangs up. And this

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Speaker 1: goes on for a few weeks before the police get involved,

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Speaker 1: which they did, which again leads me to believe the

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Speaker 1: police were really doing their job. They started Florida have

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Speaker 1: to be on the ball down there. They sure don't. Um.

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Speaker 1: So when they did get involved, they started tracing the

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Speaker 1: calls and found they were coming from a phone booth,

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Speaker 1: which they started staking out. Once they started their surveillance

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Speaker 1: on this phone booth, however, the phone calls started coming

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Speaker 1: from a different telephone booth convenient interest. They must have

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Speaker 1: had an end at the police department. Yeah, this game

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Speaker 1: of Captain Mouse went on for a while and Sue

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Speaker 1: was getting these like silent calls. They would they were

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Speaker 1: able to kind of figure out there was I don't know,

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Speaker 1: four or five phone booths that who the caller was

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Speaker 1: in like a certain kind of radius um And it

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Speaker 1: was pretty much like there were four or five, and

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Speaker 1: they would stake one out and then they would still

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Speaker 1: all the while still tracing calls, and they'd be coming

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Speaker 1: and the call would come from a different phone booth

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Speaker 1: and they were just like, oh my god, what but

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Speaker 1: they obviously this is not a big enough profile case

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Speaker 1: to send cops to. Well, I don't think they had

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Speaker 1: the research. Would take months to make a call something yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what I meaning it out. And then and then

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Speaker 1: the caller would just walk up and like put up

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Speaker 1: one of those one of those sandwich signs, free donuts. No,

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Speaker 1: I know what actually happened. Let's continue here. After five

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Speaker 1: months of silent calls, the caller finally spoke, Um, so

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Speaker 1: Sue was getting these calls couple night at least pretty

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Speaker 1: consistently at this point, that we're just silence for five months.

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Speaker 1: And then finally the caller did identify himself as Hal

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Speaker 1: Johnson and told Sue I have her. These calls continued

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Speaker 1: for years, like we said, while while the police continue

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Speaker 1: to search for how they could not figure out which

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Speaker 1: one of the booths he was going to make a

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Speaker 1: call from. And as we said, the phone with him

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Speaker 1: a minnutt a couple of minutes. Sometimes it depends. She said,

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Speaker 1: you know when the silent ones were happening. She would

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Speaker 1: sometimes sit on the phone for five minutes of dead air,

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Speaker 1: like literally five minutes of dead air. But it seemed

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Speaker 1: like she was always the one who hung up. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't him usually, So I don't really know. It just

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Speaker 1: seems to me like what they should have done was

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Speaker 1: put in a second line and then when he calls,

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Speaker 1: just call the police right away. They just go hit

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Speaker 1: all those phone booths all at once, you know, and

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Speaker 1: just bam and have them, you would think. But so

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Speaker 1: here was the thing that, well why not? They were

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Speaker 1: staking it out there? There was a lot of trouble.

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Speaker 1: They went to a lot of trouble take in the

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Speaker 1: very very beginning, yes, but I have a feeling that

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Speaker 1: by this point enough time had gone by that they

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Speaker 1: had given up. Well so, I mean, they were also

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Speaker 1: starting to suspect that How was able to identify their

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Speaker 1: undercover cars, because clearly, you know, they would stick out

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Speaker 1: any given one, and it just happened that he wasn't

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Speaker 1: using that one. That's absurd. They also, um the other

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Speaker 1: thing that's important here for people to know is that

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Speaker 1: some nights, um How would call who literally like dozens

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Speaker 1: of times in a given night, and then he would

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Speaker 1: go months sometimes, like you know, five months, six months

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Speaker 1: without calling her at all. So there was no real

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Speaker 1: rhyme or reason except for that whenever Sue was in

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Speaker 1: the news locally, she could pretty much guarantee that how

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00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,880
Speaker 1: it was going to call her. Um horrible stuff too. Yeah,

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00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 1: he kind of what what happened is the calls escalated, right,

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Speaker 1: So we said for a good five months there was silence.

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Speaker 1: Then for a couple of months he would just kind

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Speaker 1: of say have her and you know whatever. Then he um,

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Speaker 1: he told Sue that Amy was learning quickly and that

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Speaker 1: he was her she was his sex slave. He yeah,

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Speaker 1: he got really really explicit and like a little weird. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some choice quotes from him include, um, I've smoothed her out.

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Speaker 1: She knows just how to please, and I can tell

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Speaker 1: you she knows how to use her mouth just in

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Speaker 1: the right way. Wants to hear. Yeah. He eventually started

351
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Speaker 1: tracing her movements even he said that he was loaning

352
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Speaker 1: Amy out to other men. He said that eventually he

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Speaker 1: had quote sold her to the ragheads and Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: unquote sorry his quote not um where she had quote

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00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: perfected her art unquote, He, yeah, I'm sorry about all

356
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Speaker 1: of this. He detailed really awful things that are way

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Speaker 1: worse than anything I'd ever want to say on this podcast. Um.

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Speaker 1: And these calls continued until three, which is nineteen years

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Speaker 1: of him just saying horrible, horrible, awful things in it changed.

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Speaker 1: You may remember we mentioned a few minutes ago that Ned,

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Speaker 1: Sue's husband, and Amy's father, passed away, at which point

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Speaker 1: after How or after Ned passed away, how, the first

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00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: call that that Sue got from How after Ned passed

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Speaker 1: away was, UM, he said, you're all alone now, aren't you.

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Speaker 1: You better watch your back? H nice guy. And then

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Speaker 1: he started to detail some more stuff, basically saying that

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Speaker 1: how How said we want you because apparently he was

368
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Speaker 1: part of some like organization. I don't really know, but

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Speaker 1: basically they quote unquote wanted Sue to join Amy because

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Speaker 1: they've gotten tired of Amy's age, which would would have

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Speaker 1: been thirty six at the time. Age. Ye, she would

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Speaker 1: have been thirty six at that time. It really took that.

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Speaker 1: It was years, yeah, it was twenty years. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: he he said that everybody had gotten tired of how

375
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Speaker 1: old Amy was, so they wanted a mother daughter duo,

376
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Speaker 1: and they wanted it to be Sue and Amy's too old.

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Speaker 1: Mommy will make it better, right, I don't really know.

378
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Speaker 1: I don't really want to go into how where that

379
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: goes in the brain, but oh god, it's really awful. Um. Anyways,

380
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: the FBI got involved at this point and helped the

381
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Speaker 1: police track the person who had been making these calls.

382
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Speaker 1: Because you may or may not remember, the twenty years

383
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: is a long time, especially in this time period, and

384
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Speaker 1: especially as it pertains to technology. So as Hal had

385
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: started making these phone calls at phone booths, cell phones

386
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: became a thing and he started calling from a cell phone. Yeah. Well,

387
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: so the thing that's really interesting here is, um, they

388
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: almost might not have um. The FBI used some It

389
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 1: was a couple more years before the technology really really

390
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: caught up to the technology that Hal was using, but

391
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Speaker 1: they finally were able to trace the cell phone number

392
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Speaker 1: that Hal had been using for the last couple of years. Which, again,

393
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: remember tracing technology, all of that sort of stuff that

394
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 1: takes a while to catch up. So cellphones were a thing. Yeah,

395
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: so cell phones were a thing for a while before

396
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: anybody could be tracing cell phones, they were able the

397
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 1: FBI was able to trace this cell phone number two

398
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: and address which the police went to check out. And

399
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: it turns out the address was a federal drop site

400
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 1: linked to the U. S. Customs. I know a federal

401
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: drop side is, and what's one of the means by

402
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: drop site? Like like a mailbox maybe or no, I

403
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 1: think it was just like a dead drop site, like

404
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, something that somebody would use to like drop

405
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: off some packages behind a locked door or whatever. It's

406
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: never really gone into. I'm just making an assumption here,

407
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: but it was a physical address of something. So so

408
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: the police supervisor at this point, you know, the FBI says, okay,

409
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: well we linked it to this address, go check it out.

410
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: And the police go to check out the address and

411
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: find out that it's this U. S Customs thing. So

412
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: the US the police supervisor calls the branch of the

413
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: custom the US Customs that was registered to this you know,

414
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how we figured it out, but anyway,

415
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: and he says, um, hey, I have this phone number

416
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: I'm trying to trace. Can you tell me who it's

417
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: linked to? And the uh, the supervisor says, uh, take off,

418
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 1: get out. He says, um, oh, none of your bleed

419
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: bleep business, which I know. Yeah, So the police decide,

420
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: you know what, we know what will make the supervisor cooperate,

421
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: and that is we have we have a number of

422
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: tape recordings that Sue took with the with the approval

423
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Speaker 1: of a judge. A judge you know, years later, years earlier,

424
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: had said yeah, you can record these messages for perpetuity

425
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: or for reno voice recon or whatever. So they took

426
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: him down to the office. It wasn't even just like

427
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: you're recognized. Was that it was just like a listen

428
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: to all of the really messed up stuff that this

429
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: person has been dealing with for twenty years and recognized

430
00:24:58,600 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: that a lot of them have been coming to a

431
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: phone number registered to an address that you're in charge of.

432
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: At that point, the supervisor said, okay, well he didn't

433
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: he say something like he called somebody else and he's like,

434
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: I think I know who this is. It can't really

435
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: be him, but I'm gonna get so and so to

436
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: come listen to like they had multiple people listen to

437
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: it because I couldn't believe it right, But basically he

438
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: just said, okay, yes, I'll cooperate. You're right, it is

439
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: it is your business. And now we're going to talk

440
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: about theories, because I bet you want to know who

441
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: that might have been on the tape. Bad bad man,

442
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: all right, he was Hank Blair was our first theory. Yeah,

443
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: so that's actually what happened. Is the supervisor said, boy,

444
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: I hope that's not Hank Blair, but it sounds a

445
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: lot like it. Yeah, you know it. Hank talks to

446
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: me just that way. He says, yeah, I got your daughter.

447
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: I smoothed her out. Yeah. Henry Johnson Blair is actually

448
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: his full name. Come on, didn't change your name very much,

449
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: did you. This guy is like not, he was not

450
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: careful at all. Now he was a is he's still

451
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: alive US Customs squad leader. Well he was. I'm sorry.

452
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: He was a U S Customs squad leader. He is

453
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: no longer US Customs squad leader. He is alive still.

454
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: He had more than twenty four years of law enforcement

455
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: service under his belt. That that he started his priview

456
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: phone calls when he was like, you know, kind of

457
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: a rookie police seven. He was actually a UM he

458
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: was an air marshal at that time, which we'll talk

459
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: about in just a second here. Um I just want

460
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: to run through his kind of kind of actually wonder

461
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: about did they give the air marshals any like psychological

462
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: testing or anything like that. Do they give police Do

463
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: they give police in US customs people psychological testing? Probably,

464
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, people can this stuff. It's fine. Yeah. Um.

465
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: He was highly decorated for breaking lots of different smuggling

466
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: rings in Miami. Um recovered lots of stolen masterpieces for

467
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: the him In Spain, he own a house in the suburbs.

468
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: He was you know, your typical like high ranking government,

469
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: law enforcement official, high ranking middle management at least yep.

470
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: He was at the time forty eight years old. He

471
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: his wife was a top administrator at the South Miami Hospital.

472
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: He apparently didn't even have a speeding ticket on his record,

473
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: that's how clean he was. He was realy pulled out

474
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: his badge every time he got pulled over into official business.

475
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: His law enforcement background obviously probably aided him and spotting

476
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: these steakouts at the for sure. Yeah. He had two daughters,

477
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: one was twenty and one was seventeen. He was basically

478
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: everybody you know. He was that guy. When the police

479
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: came to take him away and the handcuffs. Everybody said, oh,

480
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: he's such a nice guy. But he was always such

481
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: a nice, quiet guy. But there you go. He was

482
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: arrested pretty much on on site at the US Customs.

483
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: He was in the office at the time, and they

484
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: just handcuffed him and took him away because a bunch

485
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: of people identified his voice. And he initially admitted to

486
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: have calling had been calling Sue for three years prior,

487
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: which I gather is about Yeah, which is what I

488
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: believe is how long that cell phone had been active

489
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: and had been issued to him. No, so you know,

490
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: and that makes sense to me, right, he said, Well,

491
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: I've had the cellphone for three years, so they know

492
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: for sure if if I was doing it now, I

493
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: was doing it three years ago, all right, he knows

494
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: how it works. So he says, yeah, yep, three years ago.

495
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: Then um, during questioning he admitted to the additional seventeen years. Um,

496
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: so it was twenty years altogether. Well, it makes me

497
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: curious about this guy is did he do this to

498
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: anybody else or was exclusively Sue? Billy. I don't know.

499
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that, and you will

500
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: probably not tell for good reason. Yeah. So when he

501
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: lawyered up because the lawyer up, his lawyers actually said

502
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: they were entering a plea of not guilty to the

503
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: two counts of felony, uh stalking. Well, you know I

504
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: was lawyers, I would use the big phone defense. Yeah,

505
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: his lawyers picked decided to do something even easier, even

506
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: more shameless, even even more awful, and claim and claim

507
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: that the calls between um Hank and Sue were consensual.

508
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: You're going to have to explain that in this theory

509
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: because that that took me a long time to wrap

510
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: around and do a lot of reading on. Well, I

511
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: think probably probably that there is it was put on

512
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: my shameless head here. Probably you know, he called and

513
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: she stayed on the phone and didn't just hang it

514
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: right up, and so she took that the phone sook

515
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: that sensual. Well, she answered the phone that's not consensual,

516
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: but she stayed on the phone. It's probably what the

517
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: the lawyer said. Well, if she didn't like the phone calls,

518
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: why didn't she just hang it up instead? She just

519
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: stayed on the phone and listened to his stuff. That's

520
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: probably I'm not saying I'm not I know, I know

521
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: you're not. You're probably right and that's probably said, or

522
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: she might have even said if she really believed that

523
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: it was the tiniest shred of hope that this guy

524
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: actually had Herrick and maybe some day would give her back,

525
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: she might have said something the other you know, please

526
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: call me again, you know, I mean, because you know

527
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: that was the only hope that she had. Yeah, I

528
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: think their argument, Yeah, it was basically that, yes, Hank

529
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: was making these kind of stalking and like really kind

530
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: of sexual, like bordering on sexual assault calls. Like what

531
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: he was saying to her was so really awful and explicit,

532
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: but it was almost always of like a pretty explicit

533
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: sexual nature, and I suspect that, you know, that was

534
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: part of the prosecution, was saying like look at all

535
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: the really messed up things he said, And the defense

536
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: was like, no, that was part of the game for her.

537
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: She enjoyed it, or else she wouldn't have kept answering, right,

538
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: even though the entire time, the character of how In

539
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: Hank continued to say I have her, I have your daughter,

540
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: and that was the only home. I'm sorry, I shouldn't

541
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: go too far into this because it's just like it's

542
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: so disgusting. He's a really Jacqueline hide though you think

543
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: about it, I mean, during the day he's the mild mannered,

544
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: law abiding, law enforcing good guy, and then at night

545
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: he's the evil, evil creep. Well, so he actually, yeah,

546
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: he said in his admittance to guilt to the police,

547
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: he said, you know, it would just build in him.

548
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: He sort of colsive that he would just like he

549
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: would get the urge to like call her, and he

550
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: could like suppress it for a certain amount of time.

551
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: It would just build and build and build, and then

552
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 1: he would call her like a couple of times a night,

553
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: and by the end of the call session he would

554
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: just be it would be relieved. So it was it

555
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: was a compulsion of some kind. It sounds like still

556
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: kind of messed up. Yeah, it's creepy compulsion. Yeah, this

557
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: is something that you know, thankfully, thankfully, really, I can't

558
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: get away with I can't do this. I could just

559
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: picture I'm making my purvy call and then the policies

560
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: just wait a minute. I know you're that podcast guy

561
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: and you go, oh no, no, I don't know what

562
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: I don't even know what a podcast is. Podcast, So

563
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: I can't do that. No, you can't, um and so

564
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: on the face of this, right, we can pretty much say, well,

565
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: he's a creep. And but he wasn't able to provide

566
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: any information about Amy that he couldn't have read in

567
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: the papers, which is true. And also the information that

568
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: he said he provided about her was inaccurate. Um, so

569
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: he probably didn't kidnap her. So one of the things

570
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: that I won't just say here is that, you know,

571
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: one of the things that Sue did, of course, was

572
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: say like, okay, prove it to me, Like tell me

573
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: tell me something that uh, that only you could know

574
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: about Amy's body if you're if you if you do

575
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: have her and she's your sex slave, tell me something

576
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: about her that only you could know. And this is

577
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: important because Amy had a pretty gnarly appendectomy scar on

578
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: her torso that that information was never released. Well, I

579
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: mean it is now, but you know, after twenty some

580
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: years had still never been released, and he did not

581
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: he actually said her torso smooth, right, he smooth? But no,

582
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: I mean so even then a right. But on the

583
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: other hand, it's worth noting that there's a single mention

584
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: of a hank in Amy's diary from about six weeks

585
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: before she disappeared, and it said quote Hank says, as

586
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: soon as I finished school, he wants to take me

587
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: to South America with him. I told him he's crazy,

588
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: unquote Sue and pretty much everybody who was friends with

589
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: Amy at the time doesn't recall there ever being a

590
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: Hank ever. Granted, this is a one off, like one

591
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: time somebody mentions it if you're if you're a seventeen

592
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: year old girl, you're not gonna tell your parents you're

593
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: dating a guy who's ten years older than you. Well,

594
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: but it's it's also that, I mean, we've read about

595
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: this in different stories before, where when there's somebody that

596
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily want to admit that you're seeing your

597
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: interested in, you give him a code name or a nickname.

598
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: So Hank is somebody else entirely. Plus, Hank wasn't a

599
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: isn't an uncommon name. She could have literally known some

600
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: kid in school who was named Hank saying I'm going

601
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: to go to South America and you should come with me,

602
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: hot girl. I mean, it sounds like you know pretty

603
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: much everybody from the area. You know. Again, this is

604
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: just a strawhole right of police kind of investigating. It's

605
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: a small community Coconut Grove. Grant said, Miami is large,

606
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: but Coconut Groves fairly small, or at least was at

607
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: the time. It was pretty close knit. People said, well,

608
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't really remember there. I mean, I remember this

609
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: this Henry Johnson Blair guy who did actually kind of

610
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: live in that area at the time, but I don't

611
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: really I don't really remember a hank Um. And the

612
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: other part of that is since he was the Air Marshal,

613
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: he was actually assigned to um South American roots, so

614
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: he was spending a lot of time in South America

615
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: at the time. So I mean, they're little, tiny things.

616
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: And that doesn't necessarily mean that he might have known her,

617
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: and he might have He might have known her and

618
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: said he was going to take her to South America,

619
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: and that was the end of that relationship because she

620
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: was like, wow, you're actually crazy. You're ten years older

621
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: than me and you're married. No, and she wrote about

622
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: in her journal and that was that, and then she

623
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: disappeared six weeks later, and you know whatever. I don't

624
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: put a lot of stock into this, but it is

625
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: interesting the timeline for him and his marriage, though, don't

626
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: it almost exactly does He had just gotten married. He

627
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: actually he just got married, and Um literally like days

628
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: before she disappeared, returned from his honeymoon. Well, no, they

629
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: see the timeline there is if he it's either he

630
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: returned two days before she disappeared, where he returned the

631
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: day after she disappeared, depending on what you believe, depending

632
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: on if you believe him or his wife. You know,

633
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I I'm just I'm just saying that

634
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: the t timeline is not the way that I've seen it.

635
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: And again this could be totally wrong. The way that

636
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: I've seen it is his reporting said, yeah, we got

637
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: back from our honeymoon the day after his wife's reporting,

638
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: even though she stayed. She seems to have stood by

639
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: him during this entire time. He spent some time in jail,

640
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: and he's out and they're still together. But she said no, no,

641
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: we got back two days before she disappeared. And I

642
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: would say that she's probably the right one because women

643
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: usually he closer track of that stuff than anyway, it's

644
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: not Um, I don't know. He spent two years in

645
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: jail for lesser charge. He didn't get charged with the

646
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: felony charges. He Um got charged with two counts of

647
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: misdemeanor stalking, spent two years in jail, and then sue

648
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: sued him and one of five million dollar settlement. I

649
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: wonder how much I was gonna say. I doubt she

650
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: saw much of that. She died just a few years after.

651
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: It's so weird to sue an individual for amounts of

652
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: money that large, because there is no way they're ever

653
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: going to be able to deliver. I agree, But now

654
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: you've got this outstanding judgment against him, So anytime he

655
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: makes any money, you know, you your lawyers step in

656
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: and take it. But you know, Okay, So here's a question.

657
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: So I know that debt is inheritable, like I run

658
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: up a bucket load of credit card debt and have

659
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: a passel of kids and then keel over and that

660
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: that debt. Can you know the credit card company can

661
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: pass that on children? Now? They can't. I mean they

662
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: can take it out of your estate. I think that's no.

663
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: They take it out of your state. They can't tag

664
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: the kids with it. Okay, Well, I know some debt

665
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: is inheritable, and so my question is it would this

666
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: kind of debt be inheritable? It's inheritable in and in

667
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: as much and that it can be taken out of

668
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 1: your estate. So if your state is worth five million

669
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: dollars and your two million dollars in debt, that comes

670
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: out of two and that's it. That comes out of

671
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: their inheritance. Right. But it's my it's my understanding that

672
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: unless you take over like right, so like if they

673
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: inherited the house, you inherit that debt because you suddenly

674
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: become the owner of a house, so you were paying

675
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: off the mortgage. But it's my understanding. I could be

676
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: wrong talking to somebody recently and they were they were

677
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: utterly convincing me that, oh yeah, if you know, I've

678
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: got elderly family, and we were talking about debt, and

679
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: I was saying, oh yeah, like if they wanted to,

680
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: they could come after you think so unless you are

681
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: somehow like a co signer on their dat or something. Well,

682
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: I think this is that we were talking about if

683
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: the debt had gone bad, as in, you know, I

684
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: stopped paying on it for a year and then I die,

685
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: Can they then? I don't think, you know, take it.

686
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure we've got a lot of listeners anyway. So Sue,

687
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: you know, died a couple of years after that, settlement

688
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: was handed down, but it felt like indication certainly, you know.

689
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: Like I said, I don't necessarily think that Hank kidnapped

690
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: or anything like that, but it was just a lonely

691
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: tune of one of these guys. Yeah, nothing I have

692
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: to say about him is a nice thing. Next theory

693
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: is a real quick one because, yeah, the twinsies, So

694
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: just so everybody knows, a few days after Amy disappeared,

695
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: sixteen year old twins Charles and Larry glass Or claimed

696
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: to have kidnapped her and they wanted for her, which

697
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: was a lot of money back then right now. But

698
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: the police found out that they were lying, and then

699
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: they were arrested for extortion. So people do this on

700
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: a regular basis. That's take advantage of a situation. And

701
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 1: that's another reason I don't thinking that, well, Henry, there

702
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: was probably not our purpose Hank, because this case, this

703
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: cases always attracted those kinds of people too. Yeah, he

704
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: was not not a good man, but I don't Yeah, anyway,

705
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: our next theory is the outlaws slash the Pagans, slash

706
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: some motorcycle gang of some kind. Yeah, this is actually

707
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: there was you know, I was I'm a little older

708
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: to you guys, I remember there was sort of a

709
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: motor of Backer Gang scared back in you know, Yeah, yeah,

710
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: there was. They were considered ultra scary. They were. And

711
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: also they were considered like untouchable by police a lot

712
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: of times. I don't know why. I don't know why either.

713
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: But there's a book about this that Sue co authored

714
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 1: before she passed away. If this is your pet case

715
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: and you know a lot about this theory, or you've

716
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: read the book, or you're really interested in it, go

717
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,479
Speaker 1: read the book. We officially do not have any time

718
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: to talk about yeah, but we're going to get a

719
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: great detail about her adventures because she decades looking for

720
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: her daughter. She really really did, And so we'll talk

721
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: a little. We'll do like a really like really high

722
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: level overview of this theory. But if it strikes you

723
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: as an interesting one, feel free to do more research

724
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: on it. So, Deitely, this theory sounds very familiar. Are

725
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: you going to explain to people why in a panic

726
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: this theory made you think that you knew this story already? Know?

727
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: Please do no, please share it. No, No, this is

728
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: very similar because we've done another story that's all like

729
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: this one that I wasn't this one vote? Devin sent

730
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: me a panicked message, Oh my god, have we done

731
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: this story? I did? It was like two days ago too.

732
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: I was like, it's too late to change. There are

733
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: times I'll be reading one of these things and I'm like, yeah,

734
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm ready to do this story. Wait a second, we

735
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: do that a year or two ago. Yeah, I mean seriously, Yeah,

736
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: We've been doing it for long enough for It's kind

737
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: of like you just want to make sure listen. That

738
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: list for the listeners out on the website is also

739
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: for us. It is oh what absolutely is so? Um.

740
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: One of the other things that happened in Coconut Grove

741
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: on March five, nineteen seventy four, was a massive amount

742
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: of bikers traveling through on their annual Bike Week tour.

743
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: This tour took them from Coconut Grove UM through Coconut

744
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: Grove excuse me, up Main Highway, then onto the Florida

745
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: Turnpike and then up north and then right. Main Highway

746
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: is the route that Amy was walking along to her

747
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: father's work, and the Florida Turnpike is where her cameras

748
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: found A few days later. Uh, Sue got that got

749
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: a tip twelve days after Amy's disappearance that somebody from

750
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: the Outlaws bart Biker Gang had kidnapped her. Um. She

751
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: was able to arrange a meeting through a friend who

752
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: had done some legal work for them, and it ended

753
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: up being with two men and with Amy and with

754
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: net I'm sorry, and with Sue and with ned. So

755
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: for people who don't know, because I know we went

756
00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: in this detail into detailed in the Lauren spar Your episode,

757
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: but Outlaw Biker Gang is technically classified as what is

758
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: referred to is the one percent of bikers, the ones

759
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: who are truly the outlaws and the lawbreakers who do

760
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: not care and do what they really they're not law

761
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: abiding citizens who also happened to own the motorcycle. Yeah,

762
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: they're the ones that proudly proclaimed that they are part

763
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: of the one percent and the really gnarly bike gangs

764
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: and they will do whatever they want. They will really

765
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: shoot them yeah uh like Cartman. Anyway, this meeting happened

766
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: with Sue's friend and then ned Um, Sue's husband, Amy's father,

767
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: and two members of the Outlaw gang and Sue as well.

768
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: And the men claimed to have not seen Amy personally,

769
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: but they did confirm the other gang members had frequently

770
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: kidnapped and sold young women in the past um which

771
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: they called old e d set that right, am I

772
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: the only one to get No, I get it. It's

773
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: just like anyway they would. They often were sold or

774
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: exchanged for like a credit card or even like a bike.

775
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: One one woman came forward and said that she had

776
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: been an old lady for the Outlaws for a while

777
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: and she was one time traded for a pair of chaps. Chaps.

778
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: That's got to be good for your self esteem in

779
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: according to the stories in that culture, it's women were property,

780
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: much like you would see hundreds, if not thousands of

781
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: years ago, where you traded them for stock. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

782
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: that's what I'm not saying, that's right, but that's what

783
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 1: this is. This is saying. And so these two men

784
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: said they would ask other members about amy. They never

785
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: really were able to provide any kind of concrete information. Yeah,

786
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: there were a lot of a lot of contexts that

787
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: she that Sue had like this, everyone saying yeah, I

788
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: think I heard something about it. I'll get back to you,

789
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: and then stuff like that, what I what I want

790
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: to know? And obviously you can't answer nobody really can

791
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: is it this tip that about about the super God

792
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: there's somebody from the Outlaws had kidnapped her. It was

793
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: just a hard tip or it was just just somebody

794
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: who speculated, And I was thinking, Hey, you know that

795
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: town that day, I bet you know that. You don't

796
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: know how solid. Well it may have been solid, because

797
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: uh suit did follow up a little bit here um

798
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: in ve so. Ten eleven years later, a member of

799
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: the Outlaws named Paul Branch called Sue and said that

800
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: he had been in quote unquote possession the Pagans. He

801
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: was Outlaws. I was gonna ask here because I I've

802
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: seen I've seen Pagans and Outlaws, and I frankly no

803
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: offense to all of you one percent or biker listeners.

804
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: I it's all the same, Okay, That's what I was

805
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: gonna ask because I couldn't. I couldn't. God, they're gonna

806
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: come leg Those guys are all pretty no. I I

807
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: pretty much just assume it was the Outlaws because most

808
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: of the reporting I've seen is the Outlaws. But I

809
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: think it's just kind of like Bike Week. It sounds

810
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: like is just like all of the one percenter bike

811
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: gangs are going through together and or at least the

812
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: ones that can get along. And so it's kind of

813
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: a morphous on who actually it was, but I'm going

814
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: to just keep saying they were the Outlaws. So Paul Branch,

815
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: Paul Branch I think was a member for sure of

816
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: the Outlaws. Um. He called Sue or otherwise contacted her

817
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: and said that he had been quote unquote in possession

818
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: of Amy in Orlando for a while. He said that

819
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: he bought her off of someone and that he had

820
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: treated her well, but that when she when he bought her,

821
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: she had been rough roughed up, a bit, beat up

822
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: a bit. In general, h claims like this would be

823
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: brushed off. But he was apparently able to identify that

824
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: scarlet we talked about all earlier on Amy's abdomen from

825
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: the appendectomy, and again this was way before anybody would

826
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: have known that. Really. My only questioning of that is

827
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: that if she's if she says, well, can you identify

828
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: any special marks on her body? What I would say

829
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: if I we asked that question and I was just

830
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: full of b s, I would say, well, she had

831
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: an appendectomy scar Yeah, that's a good there's a good

832
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: chance she does so this is this is actually also

833
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: the guy. You might have read this in the reading.

834
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: I didn't write down the number, but uh, Sue was

835
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: off was offering a fairly sizable reward, basically the buying

836
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: power of like five thousand dollars, And when Paul Branch

837
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: contacted to he said, I don't want the money. I

838
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: just want you to know what I think I know. Um,

839
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: so I do lend a little credence. Again, I don't

840
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: really know. I think appendectomy scars weren't aren't. I mean,

841
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 1: they're not so uncommon, especially in those days, they're pretty common,

842
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: so it's totally possible to it was a different girl.

843
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: It's also very possible to say, what are common things

844
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: that you see on somebody who has had any When

845
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: a parent says, well, can you tell me this at

846
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: any identifying features? Uh, Scars, moles and birthmarks. These are

847
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: these are the three go too And you can say,

848
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: well there was that birthmark and they say nothing. You wait, wait, no,

849
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: it wasn't a birthmark. Was it a mole? Right? So

850
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: there are ways, So there are ways for him to

851
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: have gamed the system. But again he didn't want the money.

852
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: So it's like to what end system. Let's go back

853
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: to bank. But let's go back to Henry for a second.

854
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: There totally it's totally different. I'm not saying it's the

855
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 1: same thing, but I'm saying that that somebody can actually

856
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: be totally full of it. It's totally different to anyway.

857
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter the The whole thing here is

858
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: that Um, it might have been true that she was

859
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 1: in Orlando for a while. The eason that also gives

860
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: this a little bit of steam is that when Sue

861
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: did track her there um after talking to Paul Branch

862
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: and kind of connected with some people because we talked

863
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: about she did this like countrywide to ur Sue UM

864
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: over the years trying to track Amy Um and outlaws.

865
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: I guess she questioned a ton of people in Orlando

866
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: and kind of the surrounding area, and she actually found

867
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: a convenient store manager who remembered seeing Amy, or at

868
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: least a young woman being escorted by at least two

869
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: bikers on many occasions. The manager remembered one detail about

870
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: this young woman, and that detail was that she always

871
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: bought vegetarian vegetable soup, which is an important little factoy

872
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: because you may remember that Amy was a dedicated vegetarian. Um.

873
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: The Communion store manager said she was never alone. She

874
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: always had at least a couple of people with her.

875
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: She was always well guarded. Blah blah blah blah. Whether

876
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: or not this I mean, you know, the Unsolved Mysteries

877
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: episode as mentioned about this case. They make a big

878
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 1: deal about this, and the Orlando lead and Amy's cur

879
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: Sues book makes a big deal about the outlaws thing. Yeah.

880
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: The one of the questions I have about this, and

881
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: you guys maybe can answer this, is it I go

882
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: to veg I you know, I go to convenience stores,

883
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: but I'm always there to buy like beer and chips,

884
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: and so I have no idea of convenience stores even

885
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,919
Speaker 1: sell soup? Do they depends on this if if it's

886
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: not a chain convenience store. So, if we roll back

887
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: the clock twenty thirty years, you could go down to

888
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: the whatever Quickie marks, it was much don't give me

889
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: that looked. It was much more prevalent back in the day.

890
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: Kind I'm giving you that look because literally every convenient

891
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: store I've ever been in in my entire life has

892
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: always had at least a couple of different kinds of

893
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,439
Speaker 1: soup on the shop. Yeah, I go to the seven

894
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: eleven by my house. The seven eleven, how candy is

895
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: crappy because the seven eleven, I mean the seven eleven

896
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: by my old house used to have like five or

897
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: six different kinds of soup. Grand But the reason, the

898
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 1: reason that that it was interesting was at least, you know, again,

899
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: on the Unsolved Mysteries episode of this they interviewed they

900
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: re interviewed the commnience store clerk and she said, the

901
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 1: girl asked me if it was if we had vegetarian soup,

902
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,919
Speaker 1: and then at one point the woman said, well you don't.

903
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: We don't got more interesting because in other reporting she's

904
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: always described as you know, in this whole biker theory

905
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 1: thing is everybody she was always docile and quiet, and

906
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: there's you know, these hints that maybe somebody cut her

907
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: tongue out. So I find it that's very opposite. Well, yeah,

908
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: I mean I think the sense that I got, at

909
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: least again from that was the store that convenience store

910
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: clerk was like, you know, she like very timidly said

911
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: like do you have this or whatever? I mean, you know,

912
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, again, we just like this is we don't

913
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: know because it's it's such a Yeah, miss brasher is

914
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: the word I'm going to use. There's so many conflicting accounts,

915
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: especially in the quote unquote biker angle. Well, I gotta

916
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: tell you too that going going to going around see

917
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: Orlando and showing Amy's picture and stuff like that. I

918
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: have no but you know, you can always contaminate your

919
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: witnesses too by just saying stuff to do you ever

920
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: see this woman. She might have been with some bikers,

921
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: some really scary biker guys, you know, and she was

922
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: a vegetarian and then you know that kind of thing.

923
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: So you don't really know how the quality of the

924
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: interrogation that was going on here for sure. Yeah. And

925
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: and also I kind of question any anybody's memory if

926
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,919
Speaker 1: they think, like, how long had it been like ten years,

927
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: five years since this clerk a couple of years probably least.

928
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to imagine, seriously, unless you got

929
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: a photographic memory. Yeah, so I don't. I mean, I

930
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: think the at least the kidnapped biker gang theories kind

931
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: of like a red herring and kidnapped been held forever. Yeah,

932
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: I could totainly see someone of the theory. But the

933
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: problem I have with this series that and the reason

934
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: I think somebody just kidnapped her and killed her probably

935
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: is that, you know, obviously they would have held her

936
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 1: for decades. It's like and all that time she would

937
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: she would have definitely had opportunities to get away or

938
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: to at least pick up a phone and call the

939
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: police or well, I mean, I think that that is

940
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: kind of what the interview with the other biker gangs

941
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: and the other women who were old ladies really speaks

942
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: to is that that's a thing. I mean, you can

943
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: you can brainwash a person or intimidate them into feeling

944
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: like they have no other option but to make you happy.

945
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: And particularly if if it is true that she was

946
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: with Paul Branch for a while and he got her

947
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: really really beat up, it's you know, and especially if

948
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: her tongue had actually been cut out or anything like that.

949
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's I mean, it's you just get victimized.

950
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: You can get so victimized that you want to lose

951
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: your will or even thought using using the term brainwash

952
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: is very is kind of a slippery slope because it's

953
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 1: not that's hard to well, brainwash is hard to actually

954
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: categorically say this is what it is. But an actual

955
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: tactic that people that are stealing people to put them

956
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: into situations of sexual slavery do is they hook them

957
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: on drugs. Once you make somebody an addict and you

958
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: are the only source of their deal, they become very

959
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: compliant and they do what you say when you say,

960
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: and they don't fight back because they need their fix. Yeah,

961
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: that's true. So I mean that would I agree. I

962
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: personally think the long term theory is is just as

963
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: viable as some But he stole her and shipped her

964
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: overseas to be a slave, I would find I would

965
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: find that more believable. So I do have a sub

966
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: theory on the Outlaws biker gang thing, and that is

967
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: um that it's possible that she had been picked up

968
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: for a party. I mean, you know, if it was

969
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: bike week. You know, she's wearing a short, little denim

970
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: skirt and heels. She's seventeen. She's a pretty good looking

971
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: young lady walking just walking down the side of the highway.

972
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: A biker pulls over and says, hey, baby, you want

973
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: to go party? And she thinks, okay, sure, you know whatever,

974
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: and gets on the back of a bike because there

975
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: were some reports, again however tainted, that she was seen

976
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: on the back of a motorcycle and you know, they

977
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: parked for the night party, something bad happened were there,

978
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: and she's now you know, feeding the gate or was

979
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: then feeding the gators and people I thought I only

980
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: lived in Sue. Yeah, you're right, yeah, um that you

981
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: just keep believing that, Steve. But I mean I think

982
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: that's I think that's possible, that you know, something kind

983
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: of unfortunate like that happened. I think that's that's that's

984
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: entirely possible. Or there's a random serial killer. Yeah. So

985
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: there's one final theory here, and that's the Tan truck

986
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: slash Deep slash Van guy. Because there were a number

987
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: of reports initially, not after the fact, just initially during

988
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: the initial search. People said, oh, yeah, I think I

989
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: saw somebody who looked like Amy in a Tan truck

990
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: or van or jeep um you know, along main highway

991
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: along that route or getting in that or you know

992
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: whatever somehow associated with something like that. And the only

993
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: reason that that gives me even a little bit of

994
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: pause is you remember we talked about the camera that

995
00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: was found. They developed the film which you might have assumed.

996
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: You were probably actually yelling like what did they do

997
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: with the film, and we were frustrating you just pulled

998
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: it out like a toddler with a tape. Yeah. No,

999
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: they developed it and most of the most of it

1000
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: was just way overexposed and like totally unidentifiable whatever. But

1001
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: there was one picture that they could identify, which was

1002
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: still pretty overexposed, but it was an overexposed picture of

1003
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: a tan truck against like a wall. And I have

1004
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: heard through again, I don't I mean, I don't know

1005
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: what the reporting really is that maybe Hank Blair had

1006
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: a truck that looked kind of like that van that

1007
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: looks kind of like that. Yeah. Actually a lot of

1008
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: people had vance. A lot of people still do, yeah,

1009
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: or trucks or jeeps do either of you know, whatever

1010
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: became of the film from that role of film might

1011
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: Here's my reason for asking, is that technology technology you

1012
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: can scan negatives and do some amazing stuff that I

1013
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: mean I found Listen, I was digging around in my attict.

1014
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: This was a couple of years back, and I found

1015
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of old negatives and some of them you

1016
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: could tell where people and some you couldn't really tell

1017
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: what the hell they were. And if you put them

1018
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: into a film scanner and then you run them through

1019
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: the gamut, you can pull an amazing amount of and

1020
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: make exceptional you can see what there was because you

1021
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: can dial it back, and there's a tonal control that

1022
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: you get digitally that you didn't get from analog film process.

1023
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, the thing about it is

1024
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: is you would think that the film would still be

1025
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: somewhere in evidence. But you know, on the other hand,

1026
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: the evidence does seem to get lost quite and film degrades.

1027
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if it wasn't stored properly, it

1028
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: could have just degraded. They could have somebody could have thought, well,

1029
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: there's no way that this is going to be relevant.

1030
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 1: I mean, anybody who's connected to it knows and they

1031
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: find that freaking film. You get it to somebody who

1032
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: can scan it properly. Yeah, send it to us. We'll

1033
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: solve the case. Yeah, I'll buy. Yeah, we got the money,

1034
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: I'll buy a film scanner. Yeah, I've always wanted one, right, Yeah,

1035
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: we'll start a Kickstarter. It'll be great. Um No, I

1036
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: mean that is the only other kind of theory that's

1037
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: out there. But it just had something to do with this.

1038
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: There is one other theory. Okay, really is it? Is

1039
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: it Aliens? No? Actually it's not, is it um? Are

1040
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: you ready? Pyramids? The rapture? That's what I think it was.

1041
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: That's probably true, the rapture. Okay, I'm down. I gotta

1042
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I really this is one of

1043
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: the few times where I'm going to say, none of

1044
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: the theories do you think happened to her? I mean,

1045
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,479
Speaker 1: I don't think that it was the bikers. I don't

1046
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: think that it was any of the people who were

1047
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: described like I mean, van guy is the is maybe

1048
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: the only thing because I literally think that some unknown

1049
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: person picked her up, whether of her own volition or not,

1050
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: and drove away with her and she is probably in

1051
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: a shallow grave. That's that's what I think happened most likely?

1052
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: Is that? What? But which is all? I mean, thankfully

1053
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: Sue doesn't have to hear her say that. Yeah, but yeah.

1054
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: And as as far as the van, I mean that

1055
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: picture might have been taken some other day. I mean

1056
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: who knows. Yeah, I mean, like I said, we don't

1057
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: know when the camera disappeared, if it disappeared with her,

1058
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: if it disappeared weeks or even months earlier, and I

1059
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: totally but I'm with Steve on that I think it

1060
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: most like, I mean, you know, again, there's a whole

1061
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: picked up, technical party, killed disposed of. That's possible too,

1062
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: but I'm thinking most likely it was just some freak

1063
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: who picked her up and murdered her and she's tossed

1064
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: her in the swamps. Yeah, I mean, I us have

1065
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: to agree. I think, um, you know, Unfortunately, again with

1066
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: a lot of these disappearances, the most merciful thing is

1067
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: that that person. You know, maybe it was a really

1068
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 1: terrifying couple of hours after they got kidnapped, but really, honestly,

1069
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 1: I just often hope that the years of decades, decades

1070
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: of literal torture, right, I mean, so, you know, and

1071
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: I just tend to think if they weren't found, it's

1072
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 1: it's really likely, especially this long, that she just got

1073
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: killed one way or another within a couple of days,

1074
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: a couple of hours. And one of the things I'm

1075
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: curious about is when when did the Unsolved Mysteries segment there? Oh,

1076
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: it was in the nineties at some point, okay, And

1077
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: so I guess it had to have been like it.

1078
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: It was between when Ned died because Ned had passed

1079
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: away already and when Sue died, and she died in

1080
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: late nineties, I think. Okay, so okay, so uh And

1081
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure those things usually touch off a whole avalanche

1082
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: of tips. Yeah, I don't think there was any. There

1083
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: were no updates or anything. Yeah, so that's one. But

1084
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: that's another reason that I think, and that's I have

1085
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: not heard of anything, any sort of information being dislised

1086
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: by the area of that episode. Yeah. I mean, I

1087
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: think if she were alive, people would have seen her.

1088
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: A lot of bikers would have seen her, and other

1089
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: people would have seen her if she's been held captive

1090
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: for all those decades. I agree. Yeah, so unfortunately, I

1091
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: think she's been dead for a long long time since

1092
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: about Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Well, um, if you want to

1093
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: see some of the research that we did for this case,

1094
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 1: or if you want to take a look at that

1095
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: episode list we talked about that keeps us sane kind

1096
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: of um, or you want links to merch because we've

1097
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: got shirts and mugs and some other things too. Yeah, um,

1098
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 1: you can find all those things on our website. That

1099
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: website is Thinking Sideways Podcast dot com if you want

1100
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: interact with us in any kind of social way. UM,

1101
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: don't do that. That's creepy. Uh, please don't do that. Um. No.

1102
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: You can find us on almost actually all of the

1103
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: social media is at this point. You can find us

1104
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: on Twitter, where we're Thinking Sideways. You can find us

1105
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: on Reddit, where our subreddit is Thinking Sideways. You can

1106
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, where we've got a group and

1107
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: a page. So like the group, join Nope, like the page,

1108
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: join the group. Um, you have to answer to questions,

1109
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: they're super easy. Just make sure you answer them. Um,

1110
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: you know it doesn't even have to be that correct,

1111
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: but I don't know, there's been some there's been some

1112
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: obviously not correct answers. It like yes and maybe it's

1113
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: yes and Thursday. Okay, that's it's easy. Yeah, okay, people

1114
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: get it wrong. Oh yeah, they get them real wrong.

1115
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: It's kind of fun actually to see some of the answers. Anyway,

1116
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: we also have an Instagram and that is Thinking Sideways

1117
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: podcast not Thinking Sideways, and that those other people who

1118
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 1: call themselves you know, lawsuit you think them guys, Yeah,

1119
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm thinking trademark infringement, so you know, not that they

1120
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: had a first or thinking past Um. You can also

1121
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: send us an email. The email address is Thinking Sideways

1122
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. That's great for feedback of

1123
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: any kind. And you can find us pretty much anywhere

1124
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 1: where you're streaming us. You know where you find us,

1125
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: make sure to make sure to rate and review, and

1126
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: you know, do all those fun things. And all about

1127
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: having been said, I think we're going to go ahead

1128
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: and get on out of here. I'm gonna drink a

1129
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:46,439
Speaker 1: lot to feel less depressed about this story. Room Zoom

1130
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: Zoom Next week, kids, Bye bye, and sturges