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Speaker 1: Hyay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a

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Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session one forty three of the

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Speaker 1: Arapy for Black Girls podcast. In today's session, we're talking

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Speaker 1: all about phobias. And joining us for this conversation is

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Speaker 1: Mandesa Jones man Diesa is a licensed clinical social worker

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Speaker 1: and founder of our Shake Counseling and Coaching LLC, which

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Speaker 1: is a group practice with locations in Chicago, Illinois. She's

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Speaker 1: passionate about helping individuals overcome their fears and live life

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Speaker 1: to the fullest. Mandese and I chatted about what phobias

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Speaker 1: are and how they're different from our everyday fears. Some

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Speaker 1: common misconceptions about phobias, how they impact multiple areas of

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Speaker 1: a person's life, and how phobias are treated. If you

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Speaker 1: hear something that resonates with you while listening, please share

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Speaker 1: with us on social media using the hashtag tb G

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Speaker 1: in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us today, Man Diesa, Oh, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for having me. This is such an incredible opportunity. I'm

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Speaker 1: a member of the Therapy for Black Girl's community, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just so grateful for this platform and all that

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Speaker 1: you're doing well. I am grateful for all of you

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Speaker 1: who are members of the community and makes the work

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Speaker 1: so incredibly rewarding. So I'm grateful for you. So I'm

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Speaker 1: happy to have you here to talk with us today

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Speaker 1: about phobias. There are lots of questions typically in the

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Speaker 1: community about anxiety and all of the different ways that

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Speaker 1: anxiety presents, and we have not touched on phobias specifically,

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Speaker 1: so I'm really happy to have you here to talk

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Speaker 1: more about that. Is this is one of your specialty areas,

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Speaker 1: so can you start by just telling us what a

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Speaker 1: phobia is and how it might be different than our

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Speaker 1: like everyday worries and fears. Yeah, I'm just really happy

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Speaker 1: to talk about this topic because actually, before I sat

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Speaker 1: down to this interview, one of the receptionists in my workspace,

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Speaker 1: she was talking about her phobia of dogs and how

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Speaker 1: it has impacted her career. So just to talk about phobias.

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Speaker 1: It's a diagnosable to disorder is a type of anxiety

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Speaker 1: disorder that causes an individual to experience extreme irrational fear

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Speaker 1: about a situation, living, creature, place, or object. The person

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Speaker 1: will experience intense distress when their face with the source

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Speaker 1: of their phobia. It's so funny that you mentioned the

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Speaker 1: reception just with the dog phobia. So I had a

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Speaker 1: pretty intense dog phobia when I was younger. It could

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Speaker 1: not be around dogs, and had never had a bad

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Speaker 1: experience or anything with dogs until one of my friends

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Speaker 1: during our first job together, she had two dogs that

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Speaker 1: I fell in love with, and so that kind of

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Speaker 1: cured me of a phobia, and now I have two

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Speaker 1: dogs of my own. I'm glad you brought that up

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Speaker 1: because I had that on my list to chat with

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Speaker 1: you about, because I think that that is one of

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Speaker 1: the ones that we often see and that it feels

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Speaker 1: like people are very dismissive of it, right, Like it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's not it's just a dog. It's not gonna do anything.

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Speaker 1: My dog is not gonna do anything. Yes, you're right,

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Speaker 1: people are very dismissive. But if this is a diagnosable

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Speaker 1: mental disorder, because for people who have phobias, it really

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Speaker 1: impacts their lives. I have a phobia as well, So

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Speaker 1: I say it's four legged animals, but particularly cats, where

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Speaker 1: I will avoid places where I believe that there is

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Speaker 1: a cat or if I see a cat. And it's

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Speaker 1: very very common in the black community, specifically related to animals.

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Speaker 1: You mean specifically, well, just phobias in general. Got it.

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Speaker 1: So they say they don't know exactly how phobias are

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Speaker 1: CAUs I mean, sometimes we do have experiences where we are,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe attacked by animal or have had a

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Speaker 1: traumatic experience like in water or something like that. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of times the phobia is genetic and passed

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Speaker 1: through mm. Okay. So it makes sense that if we've seen,

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Speaker 1: like parents are loved ones kind of be struggling with phobias,

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Speaker 1: that it's something that we might struggle with as well. Right,

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Speaker 1: because our parents sometimes will reinforce that phobia. So if

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Speaker 1: you have a parent that's afraid of dogs for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: you might hear or witness your your parents afraid and

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Speaker 1: therefore you take on that fear yourself. Mm hmmmmm, got it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So are there things that you feel like are commonly

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Speaker 1: misunderstood about phobia? So we've already touched a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how people sometimes will minimize it, like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: not a big deal, But are there other things that

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Speaker 1: are commonly misunderstood? Well understanding the difference between a normal

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Speaker 1: fear and a phobia. You know, we all have fears

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Speaker 1: and some anxieties, but a phobia is when we actually

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Speaker 1: rearrange our lives to avoid that phobia. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: you know, we all may feel a little nervous or

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Speaker 1: anxious when we're flying, especially if the weather is bad

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Speaker 1: and there's turbulets. You know, our stomachs may drop and

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Speaker 1: it may be uncomfortable. But a phobia are somewhat the

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Speaker 1: fear of flying. A phobia flying wouldn't go to their

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Speaker 1: best friend's wedding on the island because they're afraid to

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Speaker 1: fly there. So that is the difference, and that people,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, having a phobia myself. People not

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Speaker 1: understanding that we don't want to be afraid and we

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Speaker 1: don't want to avoid these situations, but the fear in

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Speaker 1: our minds outweighs the benefit of going to the wedding

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Speaker 1: or going to someone's house with a cat, or swimming

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Speaker 1: in the ocean, right, M. Yeah, And I think that

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Speaker 1: that's a great example, right because I think if you

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Speaker 1: don't struggle with a phobia, or you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: not really kind of up on like what it means

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Speaker 1: to have a phobia, and you don't understand how this

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Speaker 1: can impact someone's life. So a decision about whether I'm

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Speaker 1: going to travel to a friend's wedding, but I would

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Speaker 1: imagine that even more everyday occurrences may be impacted because

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Speaker 1: of phobias. Can you talk more about maybe some of

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Speaker 1: those things that people might not even recognize that they're doing,

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Speaker 1: because well, one thing is job opportunity. So just using

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Speaker 1: a dog example, We've had gifted my husband with the

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Speaker 1: Peloton bike for Christmas, and they come in and they

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Speaker 1: set that up. One of the women who were setting

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Speaker 1: up the bike before she entered the home asked if

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Speaker 1: there were any pet and of course there we don't

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Speaker 1: have any pets that so she felt comfortable and I

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Speaker 1: thought about her later, I said, well, what does she do?

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Speaker 1: You know she and she just described her her phobia

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Speaker 1: of dogs and and all of that, and I thought about, well,

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Speaker 1: what does she do when she goes to someone's home

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Speaker 1: and that have a pet. And some people are very

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Speaker 1: protective of their pets and feel that their pets are

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Speaker 1: part of the household and do not want to put

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Speaker 1: them up. And so what happens to her and her

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Speaker 1: job opportunity? You know, does she quit? Does she avoid

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Speaker 1: going to work that day? Or if you you know,

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Speaker 1: keeping on the employment. Uh, you know what if you

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Speaker 1: have a fear of elevators or heights and you're offered

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Speaker 1: opportunity in a building, you know, in the office is

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Speaker 1: on the tail floor, and sometimes people will avoid that

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Speaker 1: or not take the job. So it really impacts people,

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Speaker 1: you know, every day, you know, on bisnesses and such

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Speaker 1: as their jobs. But then you know, I think about myself,

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Speaker 1: you know, the fear my daughter's school there was a cat,

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Speaker 1: a little neighborhood cat that the kids were feeding, and

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Speaker 1: I dreaded taking her to school because the cat and

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Speaker 1: everyone would say oh that cat. You know, the cats

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Speaker 1: are not gonna bother you. Um, and I really had to.

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Speaker 1: I had to stand across the street and have someone

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Speaker 1: else walk her in the building because I was terrified. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So even everyday things like that, like you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: you just might not even think about, but that takes

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Speaker 1: so much of your like emotional energy, and really, I

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Speaker 1: would imagine can it also impact your mood for the

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Speaker 1: rest of the day, right, yes, And just the thought

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Speaker 1: of having to face this, you know, once I realized,

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Speaker 1: like with the cat, that Okay, this cat is gonna

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Speaker 1: be around and they're feeding the cat. Every morning, I

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Speaker 1: woke up with this dread of taking my daughter to

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Speaker 1: school because I'm thinking about this cat. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: the thing about phobia is that it overtakes our thoughts

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Speaker 1: and we're constantly, you know, thinking about it and worrying

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Speaker 1: about it, and like you said, you know, expanding that

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Speaker 1: emotional energy on something that really, when we think about it,

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Speaker 1: is anything that we really shouldn't be afraid of. Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but of course that's the way that anxiety works, right,

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Speaker 1: is that even though if you are not struggling with anxiety,

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Speaker 1: the threat may look like it's not an actual threat,

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Speaker 1: but in your mind it feels very much like a

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Speaker 1: real threat exactly. Yeah. Yeah, And that's the part I

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Speaker 1: think that is often misunderstood. If you're not somebody who

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Speaker 1: has struggled with anxiety in one way or another. It

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Speaker 1: may feel like, oh, just go bring your daughter to school, right,

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Speaker 1: like the cat is not gonna bother you, but in

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Speaker 1: your mind it feels like a very real kind of

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Speaker 1: a risk and a threat situation. Yes, that's from our

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Speaker 1: flight and flight response is that we feel we're in

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Speaker 1: danger and we will have physical symptoms. Well we are

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Speaker 1: experiencing or exposed to that threat of the phobia. You know,

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Speaker 1: we may feel our heart rate elevated, we may sweat,

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Speaker 1: we may you know, have all types of physical symptoms

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Speaker 1: because of it. Mm hmmm. Yeah. And going back to

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Speaker 1: the conversation around how this can impact, you know, just

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Speaker 1: your daily living and employment opportunities, one of the more

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Speaker 1: commonly discussed I think phobias is a gore or phobia, right,

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Speaker 1: so people who have a fear of just leaving their homes,

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Speaker 1: and so you can imagine how that impacts people's ability

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Speaker 1: to kind of just even take care of themselves. Right now. Thankfully,

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Speaker 1: we have like lots of delivery options and you know,

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Speaker 1: all of those things that technology has probably needed year

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Speaker 1: to kind of deal with, but in terms of like

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Speaker 1: employment opportunities and those kinds of things that can be

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Speaker 1: significantly limited by somebody's fear of leaving their home. And

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Speaker 1: that is also you know, and I wonder, you know

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Speaker 1: what these options of delivery. You know, I had something

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Speaker 1: delivered not too long ago, and I was laughing, like

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Speaker 1: anything could be delivered this day of age. But people

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Speaker 1: who are dealing with the gore phobia having that avoidance.

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Speaker 1: When we have these options, we don't have the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to test out what we're afraid of. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, thinking about what helps with phobias is to

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Speaker 1: expose yourself to some degree, and with the delivery options,

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Speaker 1: we kind of perpetuate that that fear. Mm hmmm. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm glad you mentioned that, and I

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Speaker 1: know we're gonna get into it also. But the idea

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Speaker 1: around anything that makes you anxious, and every time we

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Speaker 1: talked about anxiety on the podcast, y'all have heard me

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Speaker 1: say this or I guests say this, that the key

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Speaker 1: to working through anxiety is to go towards the thing

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Speaker 1: that you're afraid of, right, So, of course, I mean

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Speaker 1: it is kind of like a double edged sword, right.

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Speaker 1: So you know, somebody who might be struggling with a gooraphobia,

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Speaker 1: they may feel less emotionally overwhelmed because so much can

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Speaker 1: be delivered, but in terms of working through their fear,

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Speaker 1: having things delivered may not be the best option, right exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And our friends and our family will help us if

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Speaker 1: they understand that we are afraid of, for example, afraid

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Speaker 1: of flying, they will help us figure out a way

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Speaker 1: to avoid that to keep us safe because they don't

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Speaker 1: want us to be scared. But sometimes we need, like

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Speaker 1: you said, to go towards that fear, even if it's

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Speaker 1: just a little bit at a time, so we can

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Speaker 1: get used to it and get used to being uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah. And I think that that's the key,

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Speaker 1: right man, D say, is that we're not wanting you

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Speaker 1: to hear us say like, oh, go full force towards

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Speaker 1: the thing. Right. It is incremental, you know, so when

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Speaker 1: we talk about like anxiety, hierarchies and those kinds of things,

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Speaker 1: we're not saying like, Okay, if I'm afraid of cats.

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Speaker 1: I didn't adopt podcasts into my house. It's mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: passing by a window where Caddy is or you know

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Speaker 1: something like that. Um so that you gradually kind of

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Speaker 1: build up to becoming more okay with your discovered right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's exposure therapy, which is the most effective way

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Speaker 1: to treat phobias is to focus on it on small,

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Speaker 1: gradual changes and exposures to that fear. Can you walk

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Speaker 1: us through what that might look like me and diesus.

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Speaker 1: So let's take the example of somebody who is afraid

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Speaker 1: to fly. Right, what might like an exposure therapy type

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Speaker 1: of treatment look like for somebody who's struggling with that. Well, first,

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Speaker 1: I always recommend to first do it in your mind

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Speaker 1: and then to try it into the real world. So,

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Speaker 1: if you did do it in your mind and have

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Speaker 1: that image, just picture yourself and set your goal of

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Speaker 1: what you would want this to look like like after

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Speaker 1: your treatment. What do you want to be able to do.

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Speaker 1: And so you said a fear of flying, right, maybe

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Speaker 1: that would be traveling across the globe, maybe going to

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Speaker 1: Europe where it's a you know, twelve hour flight. That

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Speaker 1: might be your end goal. And so to visualize yourself

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Speaker 1: in the steps it will take to get there. That

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Speaker 1: would be the first thing. Then the second thing it

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Speaker 1: would be the actual exposure therapy as you mentioned, the

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Speaker 1: hierarchy and listening out from you know, at least eight

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Speaker 1: to ten steps to get you to that final goal.

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Speaker 1: So if your final goal is to get on a

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Speaker 1: plane and to go to Italy, then that would be

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Speaker 1: the most feared object of that scenario, and so what

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Speaker 1: steps will it take to get you there? So working

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Speaker 1: from the most feared and starting smaller, so it might

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Speaker 1: be just reading about airplanes, right or reading about people

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Speaker 1: who fly, and then the next step would be maybe

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Speaker 1: you know, going to an air for it and just

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Speaker 1: watching the planes take off, you know, just you know,

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Speaker 1: small incremental steps to get you too to that final goal.

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Speaker 1: N decent. I'm not sure because this is not an

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Speaker 1: area of practice that I specialize in. But are there

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Speaker 1: um like airports and things that will work with therapists

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Speaker 1: and their clients on some of this, like in vivo

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Speaker 1: exposure therapy, so like, because I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: therapists will like go with their client to an airport

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Speaker 1: and let's practice sitting on the plane and that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing or their special airports that like participating that,

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Speaker 1: Like how would you say something like that up? You know,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not sure I haven't heard of

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Speaker 1: anything because of the security of airpist that it might

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Speaker 1: not be as easy as if we were like working

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Speaker 1: for someone who's afraid of snakes and you know, working

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Speaker 1: with the you know, local pet store that will help

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Speaker 1: someone with that fear. But I'm sure you know that

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Speaker 1: they're you know, maybe the therapists would be interested in

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Speaker 1: and because if you want, one of the steps will

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Speaker 1: be maybe just going to a gate, so maybe the

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Speaker 1: therapists can write the airline. I'm sure there's something that

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Speaker 1: we were used pretty resourceful, Yeah, I mean, and I

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Speaker 1: would imagine like more regional airports, right or people who

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Speaker 1: have private planes, like you might be able to set

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Speaker 1: up something with somebody who has a private plane. And

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Speaker 1: I've also heard, though I've not used, people having really

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Speaker 1: good results with like virtual reality kinds of things. Have

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Speaker 1: you used any of that in your practice, like you

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Speaker 1: took it right out of my bath thing that the

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Speaker 1: virtual reality that is a big, big area that there's

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Speaker 1: some organizations here in Chicago that used those VR like

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Speaker 1: those occulusts where I don't know, have you ever used

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Speaker 1: one of those things just for fun? Yes, I haven't.

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Speaker 1: It is a very trippy experience, like it really feels

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Speaker 1: like you I don't think I've done a flight one.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly what the setting was, but you

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Speaker 1: feel like you're in the experience. Yes, So that's an

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Speaker 1: option for people as well. M m m m. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know, the whole idea around exposure therapy, right,

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Speaker 1: is that we just want to mimic as closely as

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Speaker 1: possible what the real experience feels like. And so even

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Speaker 1: though the VR experience might not be exactly the same,

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Speaker 1: it can bring up enough of the emotion where you

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Speaker 1: and the therapists can work on like, Okay, how do

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Speaker 1: we practice breathing in this moment when it feels like

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Speaker 1: your heart is raising and those kinds of things. And

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Speaker 1: that's another point of using those relaxation techniques because sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, depending on how severe the phobia is, we

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Speaker 1: may experience panic symptoms just thinking about it or just

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Speaker 1: seeing a picture of our trigger. And so to learn,

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Speaker 1: like you said, when you're in that situation, because you

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Speaker 1: will have, you know, some setbacks. So you will feel

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Speaker 1: that fear creeping up, you know, even if you work

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Speaker 1: through the exposure therapy, And what do you do when

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Speaker 1: you feel that fear? And that's first to recognize when

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Speaker 1: it comes, because you know, we all feel fear and

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Speaker 1: anxiety differently. So to know that are like, Okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling a little nervous, I'm feeling a little anxious.

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Speaker 1: And what to do such as breathing techniques and mindful

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Speaker 1: techniques and grounding techniques to help you center yourself. And

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Speaker 1: so how does the exposure therapy work man decent? Because

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Speaker 1: I would imagine it is first kind of coming up

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Speaker 1: with this hierarchy, right, so the thing that you're at

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Speaker 1: least afraid of related to the situation versus the thing

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Speaker 1: you're most afraid of. And then at each step or

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Speaker 1: you maybe visualizing and then accompanying that with some of

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Speaker 1: these skills like the breathing and the mindfulness to kind

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Speaker 1: of help manage the emotions with every step of the hierarchy.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly it. Okay, you do the hierarchy and you

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Speaker 1: imagine each step. It's important also to have a support

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Speaker 1: partner if you know, unfortunately you know, therapist we're not

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Speaker 1: available twenty four seven. But you want to have someone

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Speaker 1: that you can also work do these things with. And

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Speaker 1: you know, if you know, using the flying example, someone

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Speaker 1: that can also go with you when you already make

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Speaker 1: that flight. M mmmmm. And would the support person kind

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Speaker 1: of be a part of the therapy also or would

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Speaker 1: you kind of be talking to the client about how

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Speaker 1: to talk to the support person about supporting them. You

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Speaker 1: know what, it would be helpful if that support person

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Speaker 1: could come in on a session just to give some

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Speaker 1: tips on how to support the personal what the phobia,

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Speaker 1: what to do, what not to do, and explain the

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Speaker 1: process of what that person would need. M got it, okay?

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Speaker 1: And so you know, the flight phobia again, like we

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Speaker 1: talked about, like there are ways people can avoid it,

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Speaker 1: but you know, depending on what you do for work

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Speaker 1: and whether you want to travel and you know, vacations

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, it might be something difficult. But

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Speaker 1: if we think about something that is more easily avoided, right,

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Speaker 1: so maybe like the cat or dog phobia, right, Like

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Speaker 1: you can easy enough probably arrange your life to not

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Speaker 1: have to deal with any pits. So what would be

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Speaker 1: like the reason somebody might want to come in for

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Speaker 1: treatment for something that they could very easily avoid. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and that depends on how you

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Speaker 1: want to live your life. You know, some things we

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Speaker 1: may not ever know that we're afraid of, right and

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Speaker 1: then you know, I'm in Chicago and I may not

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Speaker 1: come into you know, contact with a lion or something

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Speaker 1: like that, right, And so that's one thing to think about.

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Speaker 1: But if it's something that you may come into contact

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Speaker 1: with and that you realize that this is a fear,

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Speaker 1: you want to address that. Even if it doesn't affect

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Speaker 1: your day to day life, this is something to consider

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Speaker 1: because you may want to travel, you may want to

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Speaker 1: experience something later on in light. Yeah, and kind of

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Speaker 1: going back to your earlier comment about how so much

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Speaker 1: of this can kind of be passed on to our kids. Um,

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Speaker 1: so that's something I think about two with my little ones,

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Speaker 1: right leg about how do I manage my ownings so

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Speaker 1: that I don't like model for them being anxious of

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Speaker 1: things that you know they want to do, Like I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to swim, but they are like water babies, right,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, trying to manage my own anxiety

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Speaker 1: about them swimming because I knew it's a skill that

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Speaker 1: will be important for them to have, and they're watching you.

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Speaker 1: They're they're watching you. And even if you do have

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Speaker 1: a phobia and watching how you handle it. You know,

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Speaker 1: my daughter does recognize that, you know that I do

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Speaker 1: have this fear, and she, of course she's not thinking therapeutically,

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Speaker 1: oh just get all rich. She does want a dog

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Speaker 1: and evention, I am working through that to get a dog.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's also important to show that, hey, yes,

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Speaker 1: the spear did show up for me, and this is

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Speaker 1: something that I've experienced. But then you could also see

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Speaker 1: how I overcome that. Mm hmmm. Yeah. So it's okay

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Speaker 1: to model anxiety because they will be anxious about things

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Speaker 1: and they're life too, but also really good to model

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Speaker 1: how we can overcome anxiety and overcome other challenges. Yes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: are there are some other pretty common phobias that people

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Speaker 1: might struggle with, as you kind of see a lot

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Speaker 1: like in your practice or in your work. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: some of the most common ones would be the cost

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Speaker 1: of phobia, just being restricted from confined space nets. The aerophobia,

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Speaker 1: which is the fear of flying. Arachnophobia is very common,

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Speaker 1: and it's interesting because I think I read a fact

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Speaker 1: that we're always at least five feet away from a spider.

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Speaker 1: What yes, Like I'm looking around now, like where is

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Speaker 1: it that we're we're always at least five feet away

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Speaker 1: from a spider? So tight this is are pretty hard

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Speaker 1: to avoid. Also, seeing as we get older, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people with driving phobias, you know, just the

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Speaker 1: fear of driving and not that there was anything particularly

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Speaker 1: that happened to them, like an accident, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it could be when we hear about accidents, so see

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Speaker 1: accidents that gets to to our subconscious. So there's fears

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Speaker 1: of that. And then what other common fear that I'm

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Speaker 1: you know, worked with a lot of my clients with

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Speaker 1: is the blood injury and injection phobia. Have you heard

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Speaker 1: of that? What is that? So just it's more than

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Speaker 1: just fear of needles, you know, having that fear of

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Speaker 1: needles is one thing, but then there's this fear of

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Speaker 1: being injected by the needle and being affected with maybe

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Speaker 1: an affection such as HIV oh okay, okay, yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I would imagine that that is similar to the driving thing.

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Speaker 1: When you talked about like us, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: social media and things have just made it so much

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Speaker 1: easier to share stories, right, So some of this probably

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Speaker 1: was always going on, but we didn't hear about it

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Speaker 1: as easily. And now that we hear and see more

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Speaker 1: of these stories, it is becoming a part of like

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Speaker 1: what's happening in our subconscious, you know. And I and

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Speaker 1: I see this a lot of blood injury and injection

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Speaker 1: phobia a lot with healthcare workers. Um, that's you know,

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Speaker 1: one way that that can impact their everyday existence. So

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Speaker 1: what happens if they are nurses or they you know,

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Speaker 1: just hospital employees and they you know, as a hospital

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Speaker 1: employ you you do have to get shots and and

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Speaker 1: things like that, the flu shot when you work in

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Speaker 1: the hospital. And how can that impact your employment? Mm

429
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: hmmmmm yeah. Yeah. So there feels like are some kind

430
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: of specific types of phobias that are much more specifically

431
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: related to like certain jobs and careers that we might have. Yeah,

432
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: and then there's the aquaphobia m m water m hmmm. Yeah.

433
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: So one of the interesting ones. So this kind of

434
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: came up around um, and I'm sure that you've seen

435
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: this is this is your work. When the newest iPhone

436
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: was released and it has those three circles and people

437
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: who struggle with is it tripped to phobia? You know what,

438
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact name of that. Yeah, I

439
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: heard a little bit about this. So is this the

440
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: fear of waiting for the response? No? I think it

441
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: is something about like the way it is designed, right, So,

442
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: like the three circles somehow just feels very distressing for people.

443
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: And you see it also with like other designs, right,

444
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: Like you would just see these random images and people

445
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: talk about like how these activates their trip to phobia.

446
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: I think that's the name of it. I may be

447
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: wrong about that, but you know, it's it's just interesting

448
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: how different things, you know, kind of come up like that.

449
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: And I would imagine, you know, as technology continues to advance,

450
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: there will be additional things that we develop phobias too,

451
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: And that could go two ways. Because one technology, like

452
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: you said, as friends new, so we become fearful of

453
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: things that we weren't even aware of, right, and so

454
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: so technology in that way can help perpetuate phobias. But

455
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: then also the technology itself can can perpetuate phobias or

456
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: costs phobias. So it's interesting to see down the line

457
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: how much technology will impact phobias. M. I mean, and

458
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: we've already talked about how it can help, right, like

459
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: just using something like a virtual reality. But of course

460
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: the other side of that is that it also me

461
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: introduce additional things for us to help phobias about. Yes, yeah,

462
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: So what are some of your favorite resources me and

463
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: DECA for anybody who may want to learn more or

464
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: who might need some additional support around phobias. So there's

465
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: this excellent book that I use. M's called the Anxiety

466
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: and Phobia work Book. So you can find this. It's

467
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: published by New Harbinger and it's a self health work book,

468
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: but I worked with it with my clients. You can

469
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: get this on Amazon. It's very very informative about a

470
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: describing phobious what you can do about phobias. One of

471
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: my clients that has a phobia that we're working through

472
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: it and she just really gets a lot from the

473
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: information and learned exactly about anxiety and phobias and you know,

474
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: how do they start and you know with it being

475
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: hereditary and things like that, and she really sees herself

476
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: in that. So that's also a good resource. Of course,

477
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: reaching out to a psychotherapist in your area that specializes

478
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: and anxiety and phobias is also another great option. Mm hmm. Yeah,

479
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: And I'm glad you mentioned that right because you know,

480
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: like you heard me say earlier, anxiety treatment is not

481
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: a specialty area for me. And so you know, it

482
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: is important that you find therapists who like specialized in

483
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: these kinds of things, because you've already heard of talk

484
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: about exposure therapy kind of being the gold standard in

485
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: terms of working through things like phobias, and so if

486
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: you go to a therapist who is not trained in

487
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: how did you expose your therapy, it might either be

488
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: more harmful or at the very least, it really won't

489
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: be effective. Exactly because I tried to go to a

490
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: therapist when we were going to a friend's wedding in Jamaica,

491
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: and I read on the trip advisor reviews that it

492
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: was a lot of cats on the end, and you know,

493
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: so I did seek out therapy and the person that

494
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: you know that I went to was just not very

495
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: effective in helping me. We did not do and I

496
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: brought this stuff up because I was aware of it,

497
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: but you know, we didn't do exposure therapy. We did

498
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: some guided imagery, but that wasn't you know, very helpful

499
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: and I really needed to get out there and really

500
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: work through this fear. Um. So yes, So finding someone

501
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: that is comfortable and is knowledgeable about exposure therapy and

502
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: knowledgeable about PHOBIAUS and anxiety is very important because there's

503
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: also some land mines in that because if you really

504
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: want to, you know, stay away from flooding, and that

505
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: is where we just like you said about the cats.

506
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: You know, walking into a room with ten cats that

507
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: can set you back um with your fear and make

508
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: it even worse. So you want to have someone that

509
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: is knowledgeable about this. Yeah, very good pointment needs something

510
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: glad as you shared that. So where can people find

511
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: you online? What's your website as well as any social

512
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: media handles you'd like to share? Okay, So I do

513
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: own group practice here in Chicago, and our website is

514
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: I Shame A s H E c C dot com.

515
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: And then you can find me on Instagram or Facebook.

516
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: So it's under m J. Jones. That's what my handle

517
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: is on Instagram. That's what I like to use the most.

518
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: I love followers and welcome followers, and we're at I

519
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: Shake Counseling on Instagram. So it's all one word, so

520
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: that's a s H E counselors c O U N

521
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: s E l I n G perfect. And of course

522
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: we will have all of that in the show notes

523
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: and the Anxiety in Phobia work book will also be

524
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: linked in our show notes in case anybody wants to

525
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: grab a copy of that. Well, thank you so much, man,

526
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing with us today. Thank you so

527
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: much for having me. This is so much fun. I

528
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: love it, I love it. Thank you. I'm so glad

529
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: Man Diese was able to share her expertise with us today.

530
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: To learn more about her and her practice and to

531
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: check out the resources she shared, be sure to visit

532
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

533
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: slash Session one, and please remember to share this episode

534
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: with two people in your circle, and don't forget to

535
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: share your takeaways with us either on Twitter or in

536
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: your I G stories using the hashtag tb G in session.

537
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, last week, I dropped a

538
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: bonus episode of the podcast featuring my conversation with Dr

539
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: Key Hallman discussing sisterhood in business. It was the first

540
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: part of a three part series I'm doing with the

541
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: support of Fiser as we count down to the Black

542
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: Enterprise Women of Power Summit. Part two of the series

543
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: drops this Friday, so be sure to be on the

544
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: lookout for that one as well. If you're searching for

545
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, be sure to check out

546
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

547
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: slack directory. And if you want to continue digging into

548
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: this topic and meet some other sisters in your area,

549
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective,

550
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: where we take a deeper dive into the topics from

551
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: the podcast and just about everything else. You can join

552
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y

553
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: c C. Thank y'all so much for joining me again

554
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with

555
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: you all real soon. Take it care,