1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Warning this episode contains references to violence. Please use discretion 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: when listening. How do you end a war? This was 3 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: the question on everyone's mind in nineteen eighty nine. For 4 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: almost a decade, El Salvador was steeped in a devastating war. 5 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: Both sides, the military and the FMLN, were convinced that 6 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: with one final push, their side could win. Meanwhile, the 7 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: country that they fought for was in shambles. The economy 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: was worse off than before, a quarter of the population 9 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: had left, and tens of thousands lay dead. It was 10 00:00:54,280 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: a battle to rule over the ashes. To Father Ignite Yakuria, 11 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: the only answer was a negotiated ceasefire. 12 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: Mitesi principal a key in Estaufo niedos is the siefke 13 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: estaufo neiedos no eincontralo la solucion del Salvador. 14 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: Father Yakuria was a Jesuit priest and philosopher who taught 15 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: at the University of Central America in San Salvador. We 16 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: call it Lauca. He'd known Oscar Romero and Rutilio Grande, 17 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: and he'd watched the war unfold before his eyes. He'd 18 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: spent that war documenting the truth contradicting the lies of 19 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: the government and teaching the next generation of young people 20 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: at the university, people like Hector Lindo Fontees. 21 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: Being educated by the Jesuits kind of helped you open 22 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 3: my mind to too many things that would not have 23 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: been possible even to see or to hear about in 24 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 3: other places. 25 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: Professor Hector Lenwentez is now retired, but he spent his 26 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: entire career teaching Latin American studies, most recently at Fordham University. 27 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: He grew up in El Salvador and studied under his 28 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: then professor, father at Yaquitia. 29 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 4: He was not a big guy. 30 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 5: He was. 31 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 3: Not particularly slender, but she was by no means an 32 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: imposing person in the physical aspect. But intellectually he was 33 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: really a giant. He was a very brilliant and incisive mind. 34 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: Father at Yaquitia's brilliant and incisive mind made him a 35 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: giant both on and off campus. He was the rector 36 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: of the university, the leader among all the other Jesuits, 37 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: and a published author who traveled the world giving lectures 38 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: and conferences. And it was his brilliant mind that made 39 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: him the perfect negotiator. Just like Archbishop Romero before him, 40 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: a equitia was meeting with high ranking officials on both 41 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: sides of the war, trying to create a dialogue between them. 42 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: This included talks with then President Alfredo Christiani. 43 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 6: After winning the election, but before going into office, I 44 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 6: had a few talks with Father ya Kuria and asked 45 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 6: him to go meet with the commandant to say how 46 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 6: would they look at this. 47 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: That's Christiani in an interview with Duke University. As you 48 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: can hear, he spoke perfect English. Christiani was an old 49 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: school oligarch, a businessman who studied at Georgetown and had 50 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: family ties to the coffee industry, and President Christiani could 51 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: see that the war wasn't just hurting the poor. The 52 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: rich were losing out too. Production was down, the FMLN 53 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: were blowing up bridges and specifically targeting the oligarchy and 54 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: their ability to profit off the country. And at this 55 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: point the FMLN was receiving financial and military support from 56 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: communist allies in Cuba and Russia, further complicating an already 57 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: complex international relationship. Christiani wanted a way out, and he 58 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: basically had Father Yakuria on speed dial. 59 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: He was kind of a go between, and he was 60 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 3: really interested in promoting the idea of a negotiated solution. 61 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: Father at Yaquaria and Christiani were working together trying to 62 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: find a way to end this terrible war, which is 63 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: why it was so shocking that on the night of 64 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: November fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine, just hours after a phone 65 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: call with the President, Father Yaquitia was murdered. 66 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: There were there was shot in the brain. 67 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: A Yequaria, along with five other Jesuit priests, Their housekeeper 68 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: and her daughter were murdered. Their bodies were dragged out 69 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: onto the campus slawn displayed for everyone to see. Nineteen 70 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: eighty nine was the beginning of the end of the 71 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: civil war, and if Oscar Romero's murder was the catalyst 72 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: to start it, Father e Equitia and the Jesuit murders 73 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: were the catalyst to end it. The Jesuit massacre would 74 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: send shock waves through El Salvador and beyond, and the 75 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: question of who gave the order and who knew would 76 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: get at the heart of who really held the power 77 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: in El Salvador. I'm Jasmine Romero and this is sacred scandal. 78 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: Nation of Saints, Episode eight. The Jesuits. We'll be right 79 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: back after the break. 80 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 7: She has when I'm trying to make your patience worthwhile. 81 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 7: Because you spent so much time chasing. 82 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: Me down, you are very well worth it. 83 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 7: I'm trying to make it well worth it. 84 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: That's Professor Terry Carl. I could read you her bona fides, 85 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: but it would basically take up the entire podcast. 86 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 7: I'm an emeritus professor from Stanford University. I was a 87 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 7: professor at Harvard before then. 88 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: Professor Carl was the expert witness for cases on elm 89 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: sulte Oscar Romero's assassination, and the murder of the Jesuits, 90 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: just to name a few. She is by far the 91 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: foremost American expert on El Salvador. But she's not just 92 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: an academic. She was also on the ground throughout the 93 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: entire war, getting information that no one else was getting. 94 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 7: I'm small, I was female, brown haired, kind of cute, 95 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 7: I think, and I was not a journalist, so I 96 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 7: could go around and ask questions and find things that 97 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 7: journalists really had a harder time on because people were 98 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 7: afraid that they would be. 99 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: Quoted, including doing things like spending three weeks on the 100 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: campaign trail with Roberto Dawison. 101 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 7: It's quite an intimidating guy, you know, and especially if 102 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,679 Speaker 7: you knew that he had already killed people, which I did. 103 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: She later used her insights on that Wison to give 104 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: testimony at the trial for Oscar Romero's murder. So, yeah, 105 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: Professor Carl is the real deal. I And in the 106 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: late nineteen eighties, Professor Carl was working on an academic project. 107 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 7: So I was at that point trying to map out 108 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 7: violence and I had, I mean, all these undergraduates spending 109 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 7: a little yellow and red and pink and different color 110 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 7: pins in a map. 111 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: She was constantly flying back and forth collecting information on 112 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: the ground in Elsavador and bringing it back to the 113 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: US to analyze. And one of the places that she 114 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: was getting a lot of her information was from the 115 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: Jesuits at Lauca, you know. 116 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 7: Every time I would come to Al Salvador, which was 117 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 7: quite a lot at that time, I just kept checking 118 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 7: in with them. And then eventually, when I moved to Stanford, 119 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 7: I formed a work group with Nacho's help in a 120 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 7: acuitius help. 121 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: Now, Father Yakuria is probably the most important person in 122 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: this story, but before we get into him, I want 123 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: to take a second to talk about the other Jesuit 124 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: priest that he was working with. I kind of think 125 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: of the Jesuits at Lauca like the Ninja turtles. Stay 126 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: with me. Just like the Ninja turtles, each one of 127 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: the Jesuit priests working at Lauca had a specialty, something 128 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: that they were uniquely talented at. Take Father Ignacio Martin Berro, 129 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:04,599 Speaker 1: who Professor Carl affectionately calls Martin Barot, was an incredible psychologist. 130 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: His focus was on understanding what the war was doing 131 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: to the psyche of the Salvadoran people. He traveled all 132 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: over the world giving lectures on his findings, talking about 133 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: his theory on the militarization of the mind, that living 134 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: under violence for so long was fundamentally changing Salvadorans, creating 135 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: and perpetuating further cycles of violence, that violence was becoming 136 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: the only way for Salvadoran society to respond to its problems. 137 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: Here he is at a lecture. 138 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 5: Lack is worth nothing in Salvador, or the lull of 139 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 5: the strongest. I rather say the most violent is a 140 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 5: social criteria and corruption that's a life style, thus precipitating 141 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 5: a vicious circle which tends to perpetuate the war. 142 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: And then there's father Segundo Montes, an incredible speaker who 143 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: was studying the impacts of the refugee crisis that the 144 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: war was creating. 145 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 7: Segunda Montes could relate to anybody. Eddie Peasant. I mean, 146 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 7: you just got him out there and he was just 147 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 7: People loved him. They loved him, and they would mob him. 148 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: Father Jaquez Lopez founded schools for poor children. Father Juandre 149 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: mon Moreno took care of the libraries and was a 150 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: meticulous cataloger of information. And Father Lopez Guintania was an 151 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: expert gardener who took care of Lauca's mango trees. For 152 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: the record, Professor Carl agreed with my Ninja Turtle's analogy. 153 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 7: You're absolutely right. They were really admired in love for 154 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 7: their particular ability. 155 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: And as we know, the ninja turtles are led by 156 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: an anthropomorphic rat sense named Master Splinter, and the master 157 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: Splinter in this scenario is, of course, Father Ignacio Yakuria. 158 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 7: Akudia was very patrician. He was a very He just 159 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 7: reminded me of a Spanish patrician of the Middle Ages 160 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 7: or something, just the way he carried himself, the way 161 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 7: he looked, the way you know, he was an extraordinary mind. 162 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: Very master splinter. So Father Yaquaria is leading the Jesuits 163 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: at the university and doing his academic work. 164 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 7: But on the side, what he's doing is he's doing 165 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 7: shuffle diplomacy. That's what he's doing. He's the guy who's 166 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 7: back and forth, back and forth talking to this book. 167 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 7: He's the only one that the commandantes on the flon 168 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 7: we'll talk to, but Soulo Christiani, and he's making progress 169 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 7: because all kinds of people who said we're not going 170 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 7: to negotiate start saying, well, you're you know, you're right. 171 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 7: There's too much death, there's too much killing, there's too 172 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 7: much this, there's too much of that. 173 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: Which seems like a good thing, right, I mean, who 174 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: wants more war? President Cristiani was definitely on board, and 175 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: so was the US, who at this point had spent 176 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: the last nine years shoveling money into a war that 177 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: would not end well. Some people were extremely unhappy that 178 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: a Equitia was trying to end the war. 179 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 7: We call them spoilers in the negotiating business, if I 180 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 7: can put it that way, because they're the ones who 181 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 7: are going to do something to spoil any chance of peace. 182 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: On the left, you've got the extremists in the FMLN, 183 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: the ones that are convinced that normal civilians, if just 184 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: given the chance, will revolt against the government. And on 185 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: the right you've got Latandonna. 186 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 7: The biggest graduating class nineteen sixty six, the so called 187 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 7: Tandona graduating class in the military, has taken power now. 188 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 7: They are the hardest of the hardline. They're not a 189 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 7: big number, because remember officers are the elite. They're not 190 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 7: a big number. They're making money hand over fist. 191 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: Latandona is a group of colonels who all graduated the 192 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: Salvadoran Military Academy together in the class of sixty six, 193 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: and they're the highest ranking officers in the Salvadoran military, 194 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: the Minister of Defense, the chief of Staff, the head 195 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: of the air Force. They're the ones calling the shots 196 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: and getting rich off of the military aid from the US. 197 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 7: They're not just committing human rights abuses, but they're all 198 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 7: in business and they're trafficking and there's you know, people 199 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 7: are selling visas, they're selling i mean everything is up 200 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 7: for sale. 201 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: Selling arms, taking the salaries of dead soldiers. The Gordons 202 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: of Latona had all kinds of schemes that they were 203 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: running to profit off of the hunhundreds of millions that 204 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: the US was sending over and they were in no 205 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,119 Speaker 1: rush to end the war and give all that up. Meanwhile, 206 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: you've got father Yakaria. 207 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 7: Getting back and forth and go back and forth and 208 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 7: back and forth. Now, if you're to the Tondona, your 209 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 7: biggest threat to say a Cordea. 210 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just Latandona who had a bone to pick. 211 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: The Jesuits had also made enemies of the oligarchy, those 212 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: famed fourteen families. 213 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 7: The only word I kept hearing was tracion, trac trac, 214 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 7: you know, traders, traders, traders. I'd say, would you explain 215 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 7: to me what that means? It means, you know, we 216 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 7: used to be able to send our kids here. We 217 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 7: didn't have to send our kids to the United States. 218 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 7: We believed in the Oka as a very good education, 219 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 7: and now we can't do that anymore because they come 220 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 7: back and they say, you know, I think you should 221 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 7: pay the peasants more. The whole thing was your traders 222 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 7: to us, and the anchor he was really at the 223 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 7: Jesuits and was really at a equidia. Being the rector. 224 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: In the days leading up to the massacre, Salvador and 225 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: Colin radio shows were filled with people calling for the 226 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: Jesuits to be thrown out, to be jailed, to be killed, 227 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: saying that they were traders to the country, or that 228 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: they were the real leaders of the FMLN. But Father 229 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: Ediquitia still believes that there's a chance for peace. He 230 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: believes in President Cristiani that with Gristiani's help, they'll find 231 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: a way forward. In mid November of nineteen eighty nine, 232 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: a Equitia went to Spain to give a lecture, but 233 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: while he was gone things escalated between the left and 234 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: the right and El Salvador. So President Gristiani calls him 235 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: and tells him, you need to come home. I need 236 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: your help to calm things down. 237 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 7: Everybody warned Equity not to come back. Everybody who knew 238 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 7: don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't 239 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 7: trust this. It wasn't really about trusting Christiani per se. 240 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 7: Just don't even trust this, right, So he decides to 241 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 7: come back. When he gets back, a number of people 242 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 7: incluting me said you have to get out of the UK. 243 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 7: They're going to kill you. By this point, I had 244 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 7: gotten to be quite an expert in anticipating killings. And 245 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 7: I'm seeing the being able to smell the crescendo. You know, 246 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 7: did you call him? Not him? I didn't call Equity. 247 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 7: I got somebody else, and I said, they're going to 248 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 7: kill you. And I went to the President of Stanford 249 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 7: and I said, you've got to help me. I know 250 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 7: these intellectuals, said the rector, the vice rector, blah blah, 251 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 7: and they're going to kill him. And I got to 252 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 7: get him out of there. 253 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: The next morning, Professor Carl heard that there had been 254 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: a massacre at Lauca. Around two thirty am, the Atlakatal battalion, 255 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: the same one that committed the massacre at Elmosote, broke 256 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: into the jesuits sleeping quarters. I've been there. The rooms 257 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: are spartan, just four walls of concrete. Some of them 258 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: are shot in bed, others are dragged out onto the 259 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 1: lawn and shot. There. A witness heard father Martin Barol 260 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: shout estresu nam hustisia, this is an injustice. They also 261 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: found El Barbarrios, the Jesuit's housekeeper, huddled in her room 262 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: along with her fifteen year old daughter, Selena. They were 263 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: also shot and killed. The soldiers then fired a couple 264 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: of shots into the walls and put a flame through 265 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: to the Jesuits rooms to create the impression of a shootout. 266 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: The news broke like a bomb. 267 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 8: Six Jesuit priests were brutally executed and sent Salvador last week. 268 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 8: Their deaths have triggered a heated congressional debate on continuation 269 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,479 Speaker 8: of military aid to that country. Even President Bush has 270 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 8: been dogged on the road by repeated protests and questions 271 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 8: about the United States policy. 272 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,239 Speaker 9: Let me just say a word about El Salvador. 273 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: Maybe it'll help. 274 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 9: It was the FMLN, the Marxist Leninist FMLN, that shot 275 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 9: its way into the middle of El Salvador, trying to 276 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 9: disrupt Salvador's democracy, and President Christiani told me on the 277 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 9: phone that they will do everything they can to bring 278 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 9: to justice, whether they're from the right or the left, 279 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 9: those who wantonly murdered those priests. 280 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 7: Right away. The reaction was, this is not going to stand. 281 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 7: This is not going to stand. 282 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: After the break, a Boston brawler, a failed cover up, 283 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: and finally an end to. 284 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 10: The war, and it seems to me that it is 285 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 10: incumbent on us to guarantee that if we're going to 286 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 10: put a million dollars a day somewhere, that million dollars 287 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 10: is going to live up to our standards, and if 288 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 10: it can't live up to our standards, then we shouldn't 289 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 10: be putting it there, no matter what the outcome. Well, 290 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 10: I listened here, then you get back, then you get 291 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 10: back into the questionable. 292 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: That's a snippet of a Congressional hearing from the weeks 293 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: after the Jesuit massacre, and the hearing then Senator John 294 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: Kerry is questioning whether the US should continue sending military 295 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: aid to Alsabador in light of the news. Bernard Aaronson, 296 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: the Assistant secretary from the Department of st argues that 297 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: pulling the military aid will just make the situation worse. 298 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: Mind you, this is now ten years into the war. 299 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: Ten years. In those ten years, never, not once, was 300 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: the military aid that was sent to El Salvador met 301 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: with any kind of restrictions or demands. It was literally 302 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: free money that the US sent to the Salvadoran military. 303 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: And it had been ten years of these kinds of debates. 304 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: But if it were to be discovered that the murdered 305 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: Jesuit priests were in fact killed by the salvadorn military. Well, 306 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: that might finally change the story. 307 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 7: All the times the United States shook its finger at 308 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 7: El Salvador's military and said, now, if you do that 309 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 7: one more time, we're going to cut off aid it 310 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 7: didn't have any meaning. But this time it did. And 311 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 7: that's what was so important, is that this time, this 312 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 7: time it did. 313 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: The Jesuits weren't just small town priests like Oscar Romero. 314 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: They weren't nameless civilians in Elmosolte. These were the ninja turtles. 315 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: They had given speeches at Berkeley, They'd met senators and 316 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: heads of state. These guys were well connected and well 317 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: respected scholars. It wouldn't be so easy to just write 318 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: these guys off as communists. In the immediate aftermath of 319 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: the Jesuit massacre, the Salvadoran government would claim that the 320 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: FMLN was responsible for the attack, and President Gaiticiani announced 321 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: that he would conduct a thorough investigation of the same 322 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: old story, lie and deny. But with US attitudes rapidly 323 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: shifting on El Salvador, this time would be different, partially 324 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: because of a Congressman from Boston named Joe Moakley. 325 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 7: Moakley let me tell you about Moakley. He was just Moakley, 326 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 7: great Irish Catholic. Moakley was a street fighter, and he 327 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 7: had been appointed by the Congress to have a fact 328 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 7: finding commission on who killed the Jesuits. 329 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 11: I have to admit I really wasn't sure exactly where 330 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 11: Al Savado is. I don't know that is Central America 331 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 11: or South America. 332 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: A hard talking brawler from Boston, Congressman Moakley had long 333 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: been critical of the US's involvement in El Salvador. So 334 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: the Moaglely Commission goes down to El Salvador with a 335 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: couple of investigators, determined to find out exactly what happened 336 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: to these Jesuit priests, barging into meetings and talking to 337 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: high and low ranking officials, asking a lot of questions. 338 00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 7: Is Smouthly was like a bulldog. He would stop you 339 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 7: couldn't stop him. 340 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: And Moakley can see that the Salvadorans aren't being totally 341 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: honest about what happened. They're sending him on fake leads 342 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: or outright lying. But he can put two and two together. 343 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: He's looking at the evidence and saying, if the military 344 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: had complete control of the university on the night of 345 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: the murders. How could the FMLN be the ones that 346 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: killed the priests? Moakley and his team start sniffing dangerously 347 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: close to the truth, and if the truth gets out, 348 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: well there goes all that American cash. But Latnona, that 349 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: cohort of colonels that's running the military, they have a 350 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: plan in place just for this kind of problem. In 351 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: the days leading up to the Jesuit massacre, there was 352 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: a series of closed door meetings, meetings where they decide 353 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: exactly when and how the Jesuits will be killed, and 354 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: they decide that just in case anything goes wrong, they're 355 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: going to need a fall guy. They land on the 356 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: director of the military academy. 357 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 7: Now, the thing about Colonel Menavides, it's so important in 358 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 7: this cover up story, is that Benavides would never have 359 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 7: come up with this idea by himself. 360 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: Neveres was part of Latandona, but he's sort of the 361 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: black sheep of the group. He's the guy that everyone 362 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: keeps around because well he's part of the group, but 363 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: he's not out there making policy decisions or running operations. 364 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: He's running the military school. It's a relatively low level 365 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: position for a man of his rank. Two days before 366 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: the Jesuit massacre, the Atla Coadel Battalion was transferred to 367 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: Benavidez's command, and on the night of November fifteenth, he's 368 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: given an order to take care of the Jesuit problem, 369 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: and he does so. He didn't realize at the time 370 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: that he was being set up to be the fall guy. 371 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 7: Oh, I don't think so. I don't think it would 372 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 7: have ever occurred to any member of the Tendona that 373 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 7: they could be a fall guy. 374 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: Once Mokeley came sniffing around, Benavivez was presented as the 375 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: sole intellectual author of the killings. Now to be clear, 376 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: benavives was given an order by a superior officer, a 377 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: member of Latandona, but he never testified as to who 378 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: gave him that order. 379 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 7: So why doesn't he talk? Why doesn't he say I 380 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 7: didn't do this. I'll tell you why. Because Colonel Montana 381 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 7: threatened his family. 382 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: Goronell Montano, the Minister of Security and member of Latandona's 383 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: inner circle. 384 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 7: It's a mafia organization ton down. It's like we know 385 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 7: where you live, we know where your son goes to school. 386 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: Benevidez, along with eight other low ranking military officers are 387 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: arrested for the murder of the Jesuits. The Salvadoran government 388 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: quickly pushes the case through and finds Benevidez and one 389 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: other guy guilty. It's a farce quote a kangaroo court 390 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: to make kangaroo's blush, in the words of a US 391 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: Court of Appeals judge who reviewed the case, but let 392 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: them don't have figures. Hey, we tossed them Benevivez. Now 393 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: everything should go back to normal, but it's too late. 394 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: Congressman Mowchlely has seen how these guys operate. He goes 395 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: back to Washington and tells everyone how quote the American 396 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: people and Congress have been played for fools. 397 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 11: I still encounter members of the armed forces who fail 398 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 11: to demonstrate any remorse, any regret over the assassination of 399 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 11: the Jesuits. Mister Chairman. They don't even fake it very well. 400 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 11: I cannot think of one single instance where one single 401 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 11: member of the Salvadoran Armed Forces has openly and voluntarily 402 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 11: provided any evidence of any significance that has helped move 403 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 11: this case forward. 404 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: Six months after the Jesuit massacre, Mowgli passed a bill 405 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: to cut aid to El Salvador by fifty percent. The 406 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: salvador In military, seeing their cash cow is drying up, 407 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: finally comes to the table to negotiate an end to 408 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: the war. But what about President Christiani. I mean, he's 409 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: the president, after all, the commander in chief of the 410 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: armed forces, and he'd been on the phone with Father 411 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: Yakuria just hours before the murders. From the very beginning, 412 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: Gristiani has claimed that he did not know about the 413 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: plot to murder the Jesuits, that this was strictly a 414 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: military operation. The Professor Carl has her doubts. 415 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 7: I'm pretty sure Christiani must have known, but I don't 416 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 7: know that for a fact, and only he can tell 417 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 7: us that. And maybe they didn't confide in him because 418 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 7: they didn't trust him because he was with you know, 419 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 7: I don't know that there are other colonels who say 420 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 7: he knew. There are people who said he knew, and 421 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 7: they're all dead. They've all been murdered, every single one 422 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 7: of them. 423 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: In the years since the Jesuit murders, Pristiani has been 424 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: accused multiple times of being a co conspirator, but it's 425 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: never been proven in court. There's currently a warrant out 426 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: for his arrest in El Salvador. His whereabouts are unknown. 427 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: About two years after the Jesuit massacre, the FML and 428 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: the Salvadoran government agreed to the nineteen ninety two to 429 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: Pultepec Accords, the official end to the Salvadoran Civil War. 430 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: President Gristiani is hailed as the man who ended the war. 431 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: As part of the agreement, the f MLN turned into 432 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: an official political party and even one seats in the 433 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: Legislative Assembly. Parts of the Salvadoran military were disbanded and 434 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: a new, more impartial judicial system was implemented. But to me, 435 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: the most important thing that comes out of those negotiations 436 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: is the UN Truth Commission. In an attempt to heal 437 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: the country, the UN sent investigators in to uncover all 438 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: of the human rights abuses and finally bring those responsible 439 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: to justice. And if they had that might be where 440 00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: our story ends. 441 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 7: But everything's falling apart because the Truth Commission is naming names. 442 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: The UN Truth Commission starts to uncover everything the perpetrators 443 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: of all of these crimes they named that we saw 444 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: in the intellectual author of Oscar Romero's murder. They uncover 445 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: the chain of command for the Jesuit massacre, directly naming 446 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: officers in Latandona, and they find the bodies in Enmosulte. 447 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: And it's not just the salvadorn military being named. The 448 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: investigators also uncover abuses committed by the FMLN. All these 449 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: retired military captains, who have now become politicians, realize that 450 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: they're about to be sent to jail, So of course. 451 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 7: The Irena dominated Congress passes a self amnesty. 452 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: Total amnesty. The Salvadoran legislature passes a law that declares 453 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: that no matter what you did during the war, no 454 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: matter what side you were on, you won't be punished 455 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: for it. 456 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 7: There are fml AND commanders who went quite along with this, 457 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 7: partly because they also are guilty of human rights violations. 458 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: Some of these commanders, members of the FMLN who are 459 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: now part of the Salvadoran government, also voted to pass 460 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: this sweeping amnesty law that left everyone in Pune. 461 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 7: Anybody who committed a human rights crime in one of 462 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 7: the armed forces, or in the desk squads or something 463 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 7: probably was pretty okay. Was okay. 464 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: The Cold War is over, the US pulls its funding 465 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: and all the killers go free, just like that it's 466 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: as if none of it had ever happened at all. 467 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: So what happens to the people of El Salvador? What 468 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: becomes of a person when you can see your rapist 469 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: at the grocery store, or when your mother's killer becomes 470 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: a senator, when your pain and your suffering is unacknowledged 471 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: and the guilty go free. Terry Carl read me a 472 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: quote by a judge who oversaw the Nurenberg trials after 473 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: World War Two. Trials were the Nazis were condemned. 474 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 7: If you were to say that these men are not guilty, 475 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 7: it would be as true to say there had been 476 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 7: no war, there were no victims, and there had been 477 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 7: no crime. In El Salvador, there was a war, there 478 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 7: were victims, and there has been a crime. 479 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: Seventy five thousand dead, a million more displaced, and no 480 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: hope of justice. The Peace Accords did end the war, 481 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: but they also left a giant wound exposed, a population 482 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: left with the trauma of war, and, in the words 483 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: of Father Martin Barol, a society with a militarized mind. 484 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 7: What I would say is, if you do that down 485 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 7: the road, you will have another iteration, not the same 486 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 7: way not necessarily two armed forces, not with the ideology involved. 487 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 7: But you will have another iteration down the road, whether 488 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 7: it's twenty years or thirty years or forty years of 489 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 7: the same kind of violence, except worse. 490 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 4: El Salvador has one of the highest murder rates in 491 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 4: the world. Like thirteen and eighteenth Street, have been at 492 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 4: war for decades. They work like the mafia, extorting money 493 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 4: from local businesses, fighting for territory and killing with impunity. 494 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: That's next time own Nation of Saints Sacred Scandal. Nation 495 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 1: of Saints is a production of AJA Podcasts in partnership 496 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: with Iheart's Michael Dura podcast network, and is hosted and 497 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: written by me Jasmine Romero, produced by Jasmine Romero with 498 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: help from Alvaro Sesbelees. Research and reporting by Jasmine Romero, 499 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: edited by saydre Kevelo. Nation of Saints was recorded in 500 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: New York City at the Relic Room, with engineering by 501 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: Brett Tuban, mixing and sound designed by Pachiquinones. Original music 502 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: by Golden Mines, Darko and Diame based on Patrick Hart's 503 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: original composition, fact checking by Erendira Aquino Ayala. Executive producers 504 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: are Gorman gerterol isaac Lee Rose Reed and Nando Villa. 505 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: Our executive producers at iHeart are Giselle Mansis and Arlene Santana. 506 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal was created by Melanie Bartley and Paula Badros. 507 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts, go to the iHeartRadio app or anywhere 508 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite podcasts.