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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to eighty eight of

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for That Girl's Podcast. We'll get right into

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Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors m M.

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Speaker 1: It's January, and although a new year might not necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean becoming a new U, it most definitely means new

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Speaker 1: opportunities for you to do the things to astound and

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Speaker 1: impress yourself. We're kicking off our year with our annual

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Speaker 1: January Jump Store miniseries. All month long, we'll speak with

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Speaker 1: lauded and recognized women across industries about how you can act,

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Speaker 1: debate the personal goals you might have been putting off

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Speaker 1: for a while. If you've been holding back on doing you,

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Speaker 1: this is your sign to jump head first into the

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Speaker 1: possibilities of a new year. Today, I'm joined by Jessica

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Speaker 1: no Bongo, global citizen, master, storyteller and travel expert, who

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Speaker 1: was the first black woman to have traveled to every

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Speaker 1: country in the world. In our conversation, Jessica spoke about

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Speaker 1: assessing your travel style, how to dress to the nines

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Speaker 1: while traveling, how to get the most out of travel

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Speaker 1: credit cards, and her best selling book That Catch Me.

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Speaker 1: If you can one woman's journey to every country in

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Speaker 1: the world, you have something resonates with you. While enjoying

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Speaker 1: our conversation, Please share with us on social media using

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Speaker 1: the hashtag TBG in session or join us over in

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Speaker 1: the sister Circle. To talk more in depth about the episode.

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Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot therapy for Black

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Speaker 1: Girls dot com. Now, please fasten your seat belt and

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Speaker 1: secure all baggage underneath your seat are in the over

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Speaker 1: head compartments. We also ask that your seats and table

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Speaker 1: trays are in the upright position for takeoff. Please turn

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Speaker 1: off all personal electronic devices, of course, excluding the ones

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Speaker 1: listening to this podcast. We appreciate you for choosing therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black girls Airlines. Please sit back, relax, and enjoy

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Speaker 1: your flight. But thank you so much for joining us today, Jessica,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here,

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Speaker 1: so excited to have you. So you are a part

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Speaker 1: of our January jump Star series. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: have traveling on their lists thanks to do for the

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Speaker 1: year or upcoming, and so we definitely wanted to get

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Speaker 1: someone in here to give us some of the confidence

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Speaker 1: and information we need to start our traveling. So I

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Speaker 1: would love for you to start by telling us if

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Speaker 1: somebody is unfamiliar kind of getting started with their you know,

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Speaker 1: bitten by the travel bug, how do they decide what

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Speaker 1: kind of trip they want to have? M H. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it's so important to focus on your preferences

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Speaker 1: and your desires and what you enjoy doing. So if

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Speaker 1: you enjoy the beach, then focus on beach locations. If

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Speaker 1: you enjoy city skates, then do that. So I think

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Speaker 1: it really has to come from a place of what

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Speaker 1: are you most interested in doing and if it's like

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Speaker 1: one of your first trips, definitely what you're gonna feel

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Speaker 1: most comfortable doing. That's the most important thing. And what

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Speaker 1: kinds of things do you feel like people should assess

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Speaker 1: for comfort. I think, especially if we're talking international travel,

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Speaker 1: think about language. So if you only speak English and

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Speaker 1: this is your first trip, then you probably want to

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Speaker 1: look at countries that are English speaking countries. So maybe

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Speaker 1: a trip to London, or if you're feeling really foggy

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Speaker 1: and you want to go all the way down Under

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Speaker 1: to Australia, but it's a long flight, places like Ireland Scotland.

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Speaker 1: There's so many English speaking countries that you can try.

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Speaker 1: I think if it's your first venture outside of the US,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be the easiest to do. Or a

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Speaker 1: country like Mexico where it's so conducive for worsum that

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Speaker 1: even if you don't speak Spanish, you can survive traveling

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Speaker 1: for the first time in Mexico. Okay, So I think

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Speaker 1: most people know that you need a passport if you're

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Speaker 1: traveling internationally. Is there any other documentation that people should

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Speaker 1: have if they're traveling abroad. I think right now most

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Speaker 1: of the COVID restrictions have been removed. You definitely want

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Speaker 1: to check on the country because a lot of countries

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Speaker 1: do require a COVID vaccine, so having your COVID vaccination

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Speaker 1: card is important. And then if you're traveling to certain countries,

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Speaker 1: you also may need a yellow fever card and to

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Speaker 1: get the actual yellow fever shots. So you definitely want

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Speaker 1: to use websites like IADA I A T A. You

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Speaker 1: can just google ayada I A T A and then

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Speaker 1: the country and then it will pull up what the

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Speaker 1: requirements are for that country, just so that you're prepared

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Speaker 1: and a dance and there are other immunizations that are

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Speaker 1: needed for visiting other countries. Correct, It really depends on

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Speaker 1: the country, so you have to look at the requirements

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Speaker 1: for the country that you're visiting. Definitely, there's less requirements

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Speaker 1: than there used to be. I've been traveling internationally since

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Speaker 1: I was four, and there we was a longer list before,

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Speaker 1: but now there's not as many immunizations needed. Mm okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I mean so that's something to think about if

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Speaker 1: you are thinking, like, Okay, I'm going to pick up

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Speaker 1: and do this next week or in two weeks. Some

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Speaker 1: of them require immunizations that take longer for you to

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Speaker 1: complete the series. Yeah, absolutely, yea, So definitely, you know,

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Speaker 1: try as far out in advance as possible. You know,

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Speaker 1: the last thing you want us to show up at

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Speaker 1: the airport and you're missing something. You now, that's what

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Speaker 1: we don't want to happen, right, So how would you

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Speaker 1: encourage people to set intentions for the kinds of trips

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Speaker 1: that they want to have. I think the biggest thing

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Speaker 1: is being positive. It sounds so simple, but when I

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Speaker 1: tell you, this has really changed my life because for example,

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Speaker 1: I've never had food poisoning. And when I tell you,

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Speaker 1: I've everything in every country that you can think of,

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Speaker 1: and I've never had food poison So I'm always like, oh,

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Speaker 1: my stomach is coded in positive energy. You know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people hear about India and Deli belly. Never

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Speaker 1: happened to me. So I think being positive is the

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Speaker 1: first thing. Especially if you're a woman and you're deciding

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Speaker 1: to do solo travel. We hear people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you have to be extra careful, and I think keep

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Speaker 1: your wits about you the same you would at home.

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Speaker 1: Take that with you no matter if you're traveling domestically

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Speaker 1: you're internationally. But don't focus on the negative. Don't focus

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Speaker 1: on what might happen. You know, we don't have to

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Speaker 1: always be overly prepared for what might happen. Someone might

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Speaker 1: rob me, someone might do this or that. Don't focus

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Speaker 1: on that, just focus on I want to travel. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to have an amazing time. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be incredible. Really setting those intentions, I believe it helps

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Speaker 1: keep the negative at bay. Thank you for that. So, Jessica,

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Speaker 1: on top of being an expert traveler and a Globle citizen,

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Speaker 1: you also used to have a travel agency. So I

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Speaker 1: would love to play a little game with you where

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Speaker 1: I will give you some scenarios of possible travelers and

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Speaker 1: trips they're wanting to plan, and see if you could

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Speaker 1: make some suggestions for where they might want to go. Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's do it all right. So here's the first one.

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Speaker 1: So food Ca and Taylor are best friends and they're

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Speaker 1: planning a girl's trip to celebrate Taylor's thirty fifth birthday.

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Speaker 1: They want to travel destination where they can stay at

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Speaker 1: a top notch hotel and not break the bank. It's

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Speaker 1: a warm climate and there's an abundance of spas and

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Speaker 1: healing centers to enjoy. Okay, I'm gonna send Funk and

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Speaker 1: Taylor to Bali. Now, look, it's far. It is far,

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Speaker 1: but it is so worth it. And when I tell

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Speaker 1: you accessible luxury, you can go and spend a day

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Speaker 1: in the spin and spend under a hundred dollars. Like

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Speaker 1: Bali is definitely a great place. It's a tropical climate.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna get tons of healing centers, yoga beaches, amazing

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Speaker 1: customer service like great staff at hotels, and beautiful Airbnb.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sending them to Valley, all right. So here's

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Speaker 1: the second one. So Jamaica is planning a two week

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Speaker 1: solo trip that she's taking before she starts a new

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Speaker 1: job at a new company. She's looking for a destination

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Speaker 1: where she can enjoy a calm countryside, immerse herself in

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Speaker 1: the small town life, and enjoy fresh foods like fruits,

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Speaker 1: meats and vegians on a daily basis. Okay, I am

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Speaker 1: sending Jamaica to Mexico, and I'm going to send her

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Speaker 1: to Wahaka. And that's because Mexico is affordable, and especially

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Speaker 1: if you're doing a two week vacation, then you really

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that you want to be conscious about spending.

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Speaker 1: And I just think like Wahaka is a great blend

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Speaker 1: of like small town but you still get access to

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Speaker 1: a lot of Mexican culture, and it's one of the

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Speaker 1: best cities in Mexico for delicious food. M all right.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, Denise and Eleanor are planning their first

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Speaker 1: romantic getaway as a couple. They're planning a three day

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Speaker 1: trip and are looking for a destination where they can

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Speaker 1: see and feel nature surrounding them. It's easy to get

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Speaker 1: around via car in a place with an incredible view

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Speaker 1: of the stars. Oh wait, incredible feel Okay, So I

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Speaker 1: was going Costa Rica. You know what, I'm gonna still

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Speaker 1: go Costa Rica. So I think Costa Rica is great

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Speaker 1: if you're into nature. They have rainforests obviously, that's both

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Speaker 1: sides of it. North and south are on the coast,

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Speaker 1: very very beautiful. So I would say I'm sending Denise

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Speaker 1: and Eleanor to Costa Rica. All right. We love that.

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Speaker 1: So what are some other places that maybe you want

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Speaker 1: to put on the map for people that you know

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Speaker 1: people still haven't quite discovered or not as many people

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Speaker 1: are visiting yet. While I'm always going to point to

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Speaker 1: a lot of African countries that I think people aren't

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Speaker 1: thinking of. I love Namibia. I think Namibia is great

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Speaker 1: beautiful landscapes. You can do some fari there and just

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Speaker 1: the desert is stunningly gorgeous, and also thinking about the stars,

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Speaker 1: the great views of the stars. It is probably the

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Speaker 1: most beautiful nightscape that I've ever seen, Like I've never

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Speaker 1: seen the Milky Way before until I was in Namibia.

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Speaker 1: Outside of that, Ugunda, I'm Ugundin. I think it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing country. Again. You can do safari, you have like Victoria,

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Speaker 1: you have the Nile River, uh so you can go

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Speaker 1: whitewater rafting on the Nile, great culture, delicious food. And

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Speaker 1: a third place, I would say Miranda. Miranda is really

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Speaker 1: tiny and a lot of people know it from you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously the genocide, but it's bounced back in such an

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Speaker 1: amazing way. It's one of the cleanest countries in the world,

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Speaker 1: not in Africa, one of the cleanest countries in the

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Speaker 1: entire world. Really kind people, and you can do guerrilla

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Speaker 1: trekking there. What is so there's only three countries in

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Speaker 1: the world where you can like actually hike into like

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Speaker 1: little forests where mounts and gerrillas live and you get

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Speaker 1: to like just engage with the families. You're obviously with

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Speaker 1: a guide and it's all safe. But you can do

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Speaker 1: that in the Congo, Rwanda and Uganda. Got it? Okay,

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Speaker 1: Very very unique thing to put on your list if

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Speaker 1: you're looking for something like that. So looking at the

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Speaker 1: pictures that you share from the places that you visited,

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Speaker 1: you're obviously very stylish, lots of great fashions. So what

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Speaker 1: tips would you give for people to maximize their wardrobes

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Speaker 1: and like tips for packing, especially if you want to

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Speaker 1: like have a carry on or like not bring a

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Speaker 1: lot of check luggage. Yeah. Number one, fabrics that do

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Speaker 1: not wrinkle. I am like I appreciate polyester and ran

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Speaker 1: all of those sorts of fabrics because they don't wrinkle.

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Speaker 1: And I think also you want to think about bringing

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Speaker 1: items that you can mix and match so that you

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Speaker 1: can get more ware out of the same items. And

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Speaker 1: beyond that, I love packing CUE because it just helps

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Speaker 1: keep everything organized for me. So like one cube will

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Speaker 1: have my underwear and my workout clothes, another cube will

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Speaker 1: have like tops and bottoms, and so that way I

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Speaker 1: always know exactly where everything is and if one of

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Speaker 1: the cubes is missing, you know, it's like a for me,

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Speaker 1: it helps me realize, like, oh, wait, I didn't pack

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Speaker 1: this or I'm missing that, So that's what I recommend.

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Speaker 1: Mm So you mentioned workout gear, so for people who

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Speaker 1: want to because a lot of people like really enjoy

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Speaker 1: having that as a part of their schedule. What kinds

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Speaker 1: of things do you take into consideration where you're looking at,

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Speaker 1: like where you're going to say, are you looking specifically

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Speaker 1: four places with gems? Are you bringing workout gear? Like?

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Speaker 1: How do you work around that? Yeah? So I definitely

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Speaker 1: look for hotels that have gyms, just because like I'm

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Speaker 1: not I don't love running, so I'm not a person

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Speaker 1: who's gonna run around the city. But if you are

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Speaker 1: a runner, I think that's great to like even call

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Speaker 1: ahead and like ask the hotel, hey, is this a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood that I can run in? If you enjoy running

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Speaker 1: and even just walking around the neighborhood. So I like

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Speaker 1: to stay in places that are very walkable just because

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Speaker 1: I feel like I can experience a place more if

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Speaker 1: I'm walking around. I also sometimes travel with a jump

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Speaker 1: rope and resistance fans as well. Mm TO thinks they

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Speaker 1: can also pack easily. Yes, lights right right, So you

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Speaker 1: encourage people who want to travel more to prioritize their travel.

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Speaker 1: Can you say what this looks like in a tangible sense? Yeah? Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I think what it looks like is, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're preparing for a trip, it's putting money away every

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Speaker 1: paycheck in the same way that you would put away

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Speaker 1: money for a car, put away money for a house.

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Speaker 1: If you really want to start traveling and make it

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Speaker 1: a part of your regular life, you have to put

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Speaker 1: that money away. So that might mean that you're cutting

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Speaker 1: back on other things. Right, So if it's the expensive

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Speaker 1: coffee that you're not having any every single day, or

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Speaker 1: you know you're going out with your girlfriends and you

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Speaker 1: usually have three drinks, maybe just have more and so

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Speaker 1: that you can save that money. I think that's important.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that I do is I use credit

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Speaker 1: cards with travel rewards, so I don't pay cash for

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Speaker 1: anything in my life, unless it's like tips or you know,

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Speaker 1: they only accept cash. I use my travel cards for

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Speaker 1: every single thing because then I get all of those

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Speaker 1: points and I'm like any my points. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're spending at like restaurants, like for example, the

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Speaker 1: chase that fire, if you're spending at restaurants, you get

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Speaker 1: I think three or five times the points. If you're

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Speaker 1: spending on travel, which includes ubers and everything, then you

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Speaker 1: get like it's either three or five times the points.

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Speaker 1: And so those sorts of things are just great because

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Speaker 1: the money that you're spending anyway on groceries on your

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Speaker 1: Uber turns into free travel. So that's another way. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so see this is a secret gim So you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the Chase sta Fire. Are there other cards that you

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Speaker 1: would suggest for people who want to be more serious

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Speaker 1: and turning points into travel. Yeah. I also like American

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Speaker 1: Express Platinum because you want to look for credit cards

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Speaker 1: that like multiply and specific categories. So like, I know

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Speaker 1: my Chase Sapphire multiplies in the food category, so I

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Speaker 1: always use that for food. The Ammex multiplies and the

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Speaker 1: travel categories, so I use that for like plane ticket

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Speaker 1: purchases and things like that our rental cars. So you

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Speaker 1: really want to look into the details before you get

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Speaker 1: the credit card. You can, like even just Google compare

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Speaker 1: travel credit cards and there's so many websites that will

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Speaker 1: put them side to side and that will allow people

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Speaker 1: to choose the card that's right for you. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's important. And another thing when it comes to budget.

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Speaker 1: I always say, chase the deal, not the destination. So

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Speaker 1: if you just want to travel right and you're pretty open,

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Speaker 1: you can sign up for websites like the flight deal

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Speaker 1: dot com, Secret Flying dot com, and airfare spot dot

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Speaker 1: com and you'll get daily emails with discount of tickets.

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Speaker 1: So it might be like Chicago to Peru three fifty,

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Speaker 1: you know, like that's cheaper than flying some places in

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Speaker 1: the United States. So it can be an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: like let the deal drive where you're gonna go, and

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Speaker 1: that way you can also save money. M M. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, you make a good point when

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Speaker 1: you're thinking sometimes when we think about travel, we're only

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Speaker 1: thinking international, but there are lots of places in the US. Yes,

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Speaker 1: which would you give for people for US travel? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Do it? That's my number one tip, Just do it.

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Speaker 1: I love traveling within the US and I've done it

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Speaker 1: for years. I've been doing road trips with my family,

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Speaker 1: but during the pandemic, because you know, we couldn't really

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Speaker 1: leave the country, and I ended up doing a US

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Speaker 1: road trip. I drove twelve thousand miles and four months.

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Speaker 1: We take the US for granted because we live here,

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Speaker 1: but literally rent a car and just start driving around.

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Speaker 1: Go to the states within your region. Some of my

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Speaker 1: favorite states Utah. People don't think about that, Wyoming, Montana,

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Speaker 1: Maine Road Island so beautiful, and you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: on the East Coast, everything is so compressed. So if

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Speaker 1: you're in like the d m V, right, you can

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Speaker 1: drive up to Maine and that's not super far and

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Speaker 1: you can visit all of the states in between, or

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Speaker 1: you know whatever. I just think you it's really important

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Speaker 1: that you just start by exploring your region. Go to

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Speaker 1: some of the national parks, so many beautiful museums, and

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Speaker 1: then even you know, no matter where you are in

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Speaker 1: the country, there's different cuisine as well. So I feel

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Speaker 1: like traveling within the US is could really feel like

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Speaker 1: you're traveling to different countries. M So, of those twelve

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Speaker 1: thousand miles, what's a route that people might want to

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Speaker 1: start with if they're wanting to do US travel. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I am obsessed with New England, but again, I

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Speaker 1: think the East Coast is great because it's so compact.

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Speaker 1: So one thing I did was I had a long layover,

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Speaker 1: I flew into Boston and I rented a car and

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Speaker 1: then I drove all the way up to Maine, which

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Speaker 1: was just a couple of hours, and then I stopped

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Speaker 1: in New Hampshire on the way back down. You can

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Speaker 1: go to Vermont, like I said, Rhode Island has amazing seafood, Connecticut, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: and then you end up you can just go down

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Speaker 1: into like New York, Delaware, Maryland, and then you can

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Speaker 1: keep going down obviously to like North Carolina, South Carolina,

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Speaker 1: but that whole corridor to me, if you really start

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Speaker 1: in Maine and you can make your way all the

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Speaker 1: way down to Florida. Literally, you feel like you're going

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Speaker 1: through different countries as you're moving further south. Yeah. More

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Speaker 1: from our conversation after the break. So one of the

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Speaker 1: things that a lot of people like to do when

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Speaker 1: they're traveling is like buy gifts and things for friends

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Speaker 1: and family members. How can we make the most out

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Speaker 1: of our money when we are spending on trips. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question. I'm a haggler, I'm I'm your

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Speaker 1: gandin so I I enjoy good haggle in the market.

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Speaker 1: But I think, you know, really try to get things

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Speaker 1: that are thoughtful but also connected to that place, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I think don't focus on Oh I need to

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Speaker 1: spend a hundred dollars if it's cheap, they won't like it. Really,

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Speaker 1: I think focus on something meaningful because a lot of

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Speaker 1: times you can get things that are meaningful to people

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Speaker 1: that aren't very expensive. So rather than thinking about price

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Speaker 1: tag or how somebody, you really think about something that's

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Speaker 1: meaningful and then write a beautiful card to go with it,

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Speaker 1: like why did you get this from this place for

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Speaker 1: this person? Because I think you know, for me, I

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Speaker 1: enjoy those gifts where people put a lot of thought

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Speaker 1: into it more than like the money. It's easy to

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Speaker 1: buy an expensive gift and give it to someone, but

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Speaker 1: really figuring out the connection with your relationship that place

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Speaker 1: and doing that little trifecta. So what do you feel like?

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Speaker 1: It's a gift that you either gave or received from

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Speaker 1: someone traveling that you feel like really was special? Oh

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Speaker 1: oh a gift I received. So my tour guide in

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Speaker 1: Jordan's Maha. She was one of the first female tour

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Speaker 1: guides in Jordan's and we did like a week long

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Speaker 1: road trip, so we became really close. And the day

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Speaker 1: that I was leaving, I stopped at her house to

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Speaker 1: like say goodbye, and she gave me a dress from

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Speaker 1: her closet, which I was like, am I gonna cry?

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Speaker 1: But it's so beautiful and it's like what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's I can wear it like as a cover up

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Speaker 1: over a swimsuit and that's how I've worn it, but

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Speaker 1: like super beautiful embroidery, and I just thought that was

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Speaker 1: so sweet. And you know it it cost her nothing.

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Speaker 1: She literally just took it out of her closet. But

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Speaker 1: it means so much to me. M hmmm, yeah, more

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Speaker 1: than anything probably she would have purchased. M. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit more about like relationships with

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Speaker 1: tour guides. Can you say a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: value they've added to you as a traveler and how

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Speaker 1: might we connect with tour guides for places we were

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Speaker 1: looking to travel. Mm hmm. I think you know, I

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Speaker 1: trust to our guides because I'm like, number one, this

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Speaker 1: is your profession, and number two, you have to think

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Speaker 1: most people are excited that you're in their country, So

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Speaker 1: I think you have to go and be open minded.

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Speaker 1: Don't be suspicious of them or think that they're trying

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Speaker 1: to get over on you or anything like that. Just

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Speaker 1: be genuinely open and go with an energy of curiosity

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Speaker 1: and the energy of a student. Right, So I don't

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Speaker 1: go into places trying to confirm what I think I

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Speaker 1: know about it. I go and I'm asking a million

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Speaker 1: questions because I want to hear from them, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: tell me about your culture, tell me what's important? Why

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Speaker 1: are these things important? And then I also ask about

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Speaker 1: things like I used to do this thing where I

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Speaker 1: would ask people what does love feel like? Because I

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Speaker 1: just think it's really interesting to connect on a human

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Speaker 1: to human level, because it helps you to realize that

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Speaker 1: we're more similar than we are different. No matter the language,

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Speaker 1: raised gender, none of that matters. Were a more similar

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Speaker 1: than we are different. So just go into it being

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Speaker 1: open minded and thinking, Okay, at the end of this,

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Speaker 1: I want this to feel like a friend. If you

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Speaker 1: go in with that energy, I think it just makes

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Speaker 1: the entire even if it's one day or a couple

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Speaker 1: of hours, I think it just makes it more impactful.

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Speaker 1: And I think ultimately you'll learn more about the culture.

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Speaker 1: And then as far as how to get guys literally,

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Speaker 1: I use Google and usually trip Advisor comes up as

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Speaker 1: a top ranking thing that helps me find guides, but

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Speaker 1: I really just Google, like tour guides and ex country

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Speaker 1: and then I'm a crazy review person, so I read

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Speaker 1: all the reviews, but I'll just read different reviews until

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Speaker 1: I find someone that I feel like will be a

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Speaker 1: good fit. Do you tend to leave reviews after you've

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Speaker 1: had good or not so good experiences as well? Not

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Speaker 1: as much as I should. So if I have a

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Speaker 1: really great experience, I do leave reviews, Like if it's phenomenal,

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Speaker 1: I do leave reviews. Yet it so you mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about shopping, then you know you sometimes

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Speaker 1: try to handle with the markets and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: I would love to hear more about, like social responsibility

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Speaker 1: when traveling, and I can't imagine that in some markets

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Speaker 1: in some countries, like that is expected that you will haggle,

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Speaker 1: but in some places that might be seen as disrespectful

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Speaker 1: or like you're not honoring the crams. So can you

430
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: say more about like how you can tap into like

431
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: what kinds of things are okay and not okay in

432
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: a certain country. Yeah, I mean I think that's where

433
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: guides come in, handy or talking to people at the hotel.

434
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: You can ask them because typically if you're going to

435
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: a market, I would go downstairs and say, hey, what's

436
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: the best market in the city. Are the prices negotiable

437
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: or how does that work for me? If there's something

438
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 1: specific I'm looking for, I'll ask a local person how

439
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: much should I pay for this? Because I know I'm

440
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: not going to pay the local price, but I'm also

441
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 1: not trying to pay triple So I'm like, let's find

442
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: a happy medium. And I think that's okay, right, Like,

443
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 1: of course we should be paying more than locals pay

444
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: because typically our current to see is stronger and we

445
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: probably have more money. So I'm fine with paying more

446
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: than the local price, but I'm not trying to like

447
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: pay your whole month's rent because I just don't know

448
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: any better. So I think definitely tap into local people

449
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: to figure out what's right and what may not feel

450
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: good to the people that you're buying from. MM In

451
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: addition to shopping at the markets, are there other ways

452
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: when we're traveling abroad that we can make sure that

453
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: we are using our dollars in a way that supports

454
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: the local economy. Tip tip tip, tip, tip tip, You know,

455
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: I think tip your housekeepers in the hotel, tip your

456
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: driver's dorman. You know what I mean? When you eat,

457
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: because in most countries outside of the US, tipping is

458
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: not standard, especially in restaurants. It's just not standards. So

459
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: I think just find ways to tip, because that's putting

460
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: money directly in someone's pocket, you know. And I think

461
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: when it comes to travel agencies and to work lives,

462
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,239
Speaker 1: try to find locally owned companies. Especially in a lot

463
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: of like African and Asian countries, you'll find that French

464
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: people own it or British people own it. So really

465
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: try to dig a little deeper and find places that

466
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: are locally owned, because that means that money is staying

467
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: in the country versus like you're spending your money and

468
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: that's going back to Paris or London. Got it. And

469
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: this may be again a bit of a novice question,

470
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: but usually if I've traveled internationally, like money exchange happens

471
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: in the airport? Is that typically how we are switching

472
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: dollars into whatever the local currency is or are there

473
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: other mechanisms for doing that? So I always use an

474
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: a t M because the bank rate from an a

475
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: t M is always going to be the best rate

476
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: because typically in airports they're charging commissions right and so

477
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: but now it's the question of like who do you

478
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: bank with? Right? So for example, I have a Charlish

479
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: Schwab checking account that I only use for travel because

480
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: there's no foreign transaction fees in any a t M

481
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: fee I pay, they refund me. So you know, you

482
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: go to an a t M and it's like this,

483
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: a TM is charging you three dollars. At the end

484
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: of the month, they'll give me all of those fees

485
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: back and they don't charge a like foreign a t

486
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: M fee, whereas like my Chase account charges I think

487
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: three dollars for every a t M that, like non

488
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: Chase a t M that I use, plus that a

489
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: t M is charging me a fee, So then every

490
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: time you go you might be spending six dollars, which

491
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: is a lot. I mean, you know, so you can't

492
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: just go and get money as you need. Then you

493
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: have to like plan how much money do I need

494
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: so you're minimizing it. So I would say look into

495
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: like a Child Schwab or any other bank that refunds

496
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: a t M fees, and beyond that, if you're using

497
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: a traditional bank like a Chase, then just plan how

498
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: much money you're gonna need so that you can just

499
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: do it in one single go. But using an A

500
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: t M is definitely going to be the best exchange

501
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: right for you. And sorry. The last thing is that's

502
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: if you need cash. Other than that, I again, I

503
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: use my credit cards when I travel because there's no

504
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: foreign transaction fees, and so if you're in restaurants and

505
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: things like that, you can always still just use your

506
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: credit card. Just make sure your credit card doesn't have

507
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: foreign transaction fees because if it does, then it's like

508
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: an extra three percent and you don't want to pay

509
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: that either. Some people talk about if you travel from

510
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: Atlanta to New York, sometimes your card will get flagged

511
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: because they don't expect you to be in New York.

512
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: So I can imagine if you're traveling abroad, you want

513
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: to let your credit card company know that you're gonna

514
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: be somewhere else. Absolutely definitely let them know. You do

515
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: not want to be in a situation like what happens

516
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: to me in Hong Kong years ago, and I cut

517
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: my credit card off and I had no money, and

518
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: thank god I had a friend who lived in Hong Kong.

519
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: He was dropping me at the train station and luckily

520
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: he was able to pay for my train ticket because

521
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: I had no money, and I mean that bank saw

522
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: the worst of me when I got home because I

523
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: had been using the car. They just suddenly cut it off.

524
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: So please make sure you call your bank and your

525
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: credit cards and you let them know where you're traveling.

526
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: Usually they'll ask you what countries are you going to

527
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: so that they put it on your account. Got it?

528
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: Got it. So what are some countries that you feel

529
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: like have a really strong tourist infrastructure that supports and

530
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: empowers to local people. Oh, that's a good question. I

531
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: think Kenya is quite good. Kenya has been in the

532
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: tourism game for a really long time, and I think

533
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: they do a really good job. I think Mexico is

534
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: pretty good as well. Obviously, in Mexico, the tourism industry

535
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: is like one of the largest providers of jobs in

536
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: the country. It comes down to like thinking about every

537
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: single person you're interacting with, and even if you're giving

538
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: them a dollar, that dollar could change their life, you

539
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: know what I mean, So really thinking about that. So

540
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: you talked about this a little bit in terms of

541
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: some of the stories that people have around solo level.

542
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: What do you feel like it's most often misunderstood about

543
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: solo travel. I think most often misunderstood is that it's scary.

544
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: I really want people to release that fear. And I've

545
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: been to every single country in the world. I did

546
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: eighty nine countries solo, and a lot of the ones

547
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: I did solo our countries that were on the like

548
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: state departments do not travel list. And the reason I

549
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: survived and thrived in my travel is because of the

550
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: kindness of strangers. So the biggest thing that I've learned

551
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: traveling to every country in the world is that most

552
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: people are good. And even in my book The Catchman

553
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: If you Can, I talk about the kindness of strangers

554
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: because we have this idea of if we travel abroad,

555
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: something's gonna happen, especially if you're a woman, and no

556
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: like release that fear nine times out of ten or

557
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: like nine point nine times out of ten, you're gonna

558
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: have an amazing time. So release that fear because it

559
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: is safe. Yes, something might go wrong, but it's it's

560
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: super unlikely that anything is gonna go wrong. So I

561
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: think the safety of it all is something that people overplay.

562
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: So what's the tip that you would share for any

563
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: of our community members who are shy and more introverted,

564
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: but they are really seeking like these authentic kinds of

565
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: experiences that you've talked about, Like what kinds of things

566
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: would you suggest for them putting themselves out there. So

567
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: one thing I think about is like, pretend to be

568
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: someone else. You know, like you're traveling abroad, you're outside

569
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: of your comfort zone already, no one knows you. Pretend

570
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: to be someone else if that's gonna give you a

571
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: little more confidence. Me and my friends didn't in Cuba,

572
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: but we literally we made up new names, we made

573
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: up personalities, and we just were different people and it

574
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: was really fun for the night. But I think that

575
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: might be a way for people to just practice stepping

576
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: outside of themselves. I think the most beautiful thing about

577
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: travel is like it gives you a sense of freedom.

578
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: A lot of times we remain the people we are,

579
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: and we find it hard to change because we're constantly

580
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: around the same people, and you know, you're used to

581
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: those relationships and you react a certain way in those relationships.

582
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: But when you're traveling, you have a newfound freedom. So

583
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: it's like you can be somebody completely different when you're abroad.

584
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: A lot of people when they solo travel, don't want

585
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: to sit down and have dinner by themselves. Eat at

586
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: the bar, because then if you eat at the bar,

587
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: you can chat with the bartender. Usually somebody else will

588
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: come and sit and they might be alone, so you

589
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: can chat with them. I mean, even I'm in l A,

590
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: I go out to dinner by myself and sit at

591
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: the bar, and you know, sometimes I end up chatting

592
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: with couples. So I think that's a really good way

593
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: to like put yourself out there. I think also if

594
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: you're trying to like build up your confidence for solo travel,

595
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: start in the US, Start near your home. Take yourself

596
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: out to dinner at home in your hometown, and so

597
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: then you can start to build that confidence of being

598
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: out being alone, go to the theater by yourself, start

599
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: doing those little things so that it helps you to

600
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: build your confidence a little closer to home. M hmm.

601
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So, I know,

602
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, a part of the fun

603
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: of travel is sharing all of the beautiful pictures and

604
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: you know, letting people know kind of what you've been

605
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: up to. But I also understand that there's a safety

606
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: component to that. So what tips would you share for

607
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: people about how to safely share about their travels online. Yeah,

608
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: so I don't post in real time typically, like you said,

609
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: for safety, I don't post in real time. I think

610
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: that's important. I think as far as geo tagging, that

611
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: is something you can definitely geo tag, but be careful

612
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: that you're not still at that place. And also I

613
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: would say about geo tagging, be selective. So if you're

614
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: somewhere out in nature and it's really beautiful and there's

615
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: not a lot of people, maybe don't geo tag it,

616
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: because what we don't want to happen is that places

617
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: that are beautiful end up getting destroyed because there's too

618
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: many people coming. So like for me, obviously I have

619
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: a large platform. I've had to not geo tag places

620
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: sometimes and people get upset with me, and I'm like,

621
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: we need to preserve some things. We've seen what's happened

622
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: in Morocco and New Zealand and a lot of other

623
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: places where there's so much tourism it's kind of started

624
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: to destroy certain things. So I think with geo tagging,

625
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: you just want to be selective so that you're not

626
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: flooding a place. But yeah, I think as long as

627
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: you delay your posting, I think you should be fine. Kay.

628
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: So what does it mean to be a nomad to you?

629
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: I want to be a nomad. To me, it's just

630
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 1: to be a citizen of the world and to look

631
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: at every stranger as a potential friend. It means to

632
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: me like that you're living a borderless life right and

633
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: really allowing the universe and humanity to support you on

634
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: your way. Not financially, but you know, just like be

635
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: your guides, be your friends, and just sort of help

636
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: you to live the richest experience you can in that moment. MM.

637
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: So you already have two homes wanting with Hollywood went

638
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: in Detroit. So what two new locations are on your

639
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: list for a possible new home basis, I definitely want

640
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: to get a place in Senegal and that's my little

641
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: happy place, So I'd love to build a house there

642
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: on the coast. And Carta Hana and Colombia, I really

643
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: love it. There's just something about Carta Hanah that I love,

644
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: so I'd love to get a place there as well.

645
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: So You've already given us some great stories, but we

646
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: love a good story here on therapy from Black Girls.

647
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: So because you had so many adventures. I'd love for

648
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: you to share, if you're comfortable, a story of a

649
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: place you traveled to and like met someone and kind

650
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: of instantly became a great friend or somebody who became

651
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: a close part of your circle. Oh. Actually, I have

652
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: a really good story. My friend Nana Konoma, she's gonna

653
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 1: and and we actually met at Nelson Mandela's house in Johannesburg.

654
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: And I remember seeing her and I was like, oh

655
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: my god, this girls. I was stunning. She's very tall,

656
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: She's like six ft tall, super dark skin and just stunning.

657
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: And she had on this bracelet. I was like, oh

658
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: my god, your bracelet is so beautiful whatever. And every

659
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: time I saw I was like, oh my god, it's

660
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: just so beautiful. And she was like, you can have it,

661
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: and I was like what, And she gave me her bracelet.

662
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: And fast forward to today, that's one of my closest friends.

663
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: Like she came to the Say Shells, which was my

664
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: last country. I've spent time with her and her family

665
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: in Ghana, and we've out in the US. We've traveled

666
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: to Brazil together, Egypt together. And it all came from

667
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: we were at Nelson Mandela's house in Johannesburg, and I

668
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: liked her bracelet. It's a great the origin story there.

669
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: So you've already talked a little bit. You mentioned your

670
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: books if we definitely want to talk about that to

671
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: catch me if you can. So, you visited all of

672
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: the countries, like you mentioned, how has traveling the world

673
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: impacted how you see and understand yourself as a black

674
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: woman living in America. M hmm. That's so interesting for me.

675
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: I understand how much freedom is outside of the United States, right.

676
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest thing, and I try to

677
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: maintain that even when I'm in the US. So what

678
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: do I mean by that? I feel like in the

679
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: United States people you all are making us constantly think

680
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: about the fact that are black. Right, we have to

681
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: constantly be reminded like I'm black and black and black,

682
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: Like I get it, Okay, guys, I can get it.

683
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And I mean that's reminders

684
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: from rude people in stores or people who don't want

685
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: to help you, people who don't acknowledge you when you

686
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: walk into rooms like those constant reminders of your blackness.

687
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: And when you're abroad, I would say in my experience

688
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: that goes away. For the most part, I'm African appearing,

689
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: so I still have issues with immigration a thousand percent,

690
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: But beyond that, you realize it just doesn't matter. And

691
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: so a lot of people, you know, I hear, oh,

692
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: which countries are safe for black people, and I don't

693
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: subscribe to any of that. I believe you should go

694
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: where you want to go. And again I believe go

695
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: and you be positive. I don't have a lot of

696
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: memories of like being super negatively treated because I'm black

697
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: outside of immigration, because they just give me the blues.

698
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: But once I'm in the country with full sure, maybe

699
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: here and there there's somebody rude out a restaurant or whatever,

700
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: but like, for the most part, people are welcoming and

701
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: they embrace you, and no one cares what you look like.

702
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: And so I think for me being back in the

703
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: US primarily now, I try to keep that in mind.

704
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: And obviously it's a different context, but I don't allow

705
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: my race to be a hindrance for me. I'm like,

706
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: I'm dope and I'm black. You're welcome, you know what

707
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, to me, my blackness is a benefit

708
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: for whatever company that I'm working with. I'm like, oh

709
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: my god, how lucky are you? You get somebody who's

710
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: dope and you get to check the box of diversity

711
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: because I'm black. So I think, to me, it's like

712
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a superpower, right because it is

713
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: an opportunity to stand out because I exist in a

714
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: lot of spaces where I'm the only black person, you know,

715
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: and I'm fine with that. It doesn't make me uncomfortable. Again,

716
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're welcome. Look at all of this joy

717
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: that I've brought in here just from my being. So

718
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: I really think that's how it's affected my thinking about

719
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: being black in America. Mmmmm. So I wonder if you

720
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: could give us a little bit of some insight into

721
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: how you want people to engage with the book, because

722
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: it it's such a beautiful presentation. So they're over three

723
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: hundred images, the book is also available as an audiobook,

724
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: and you're speaking over seventy languages in the audio book.

725
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: So how do you want the readers and listeners to

726
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: actually engage with the book? Okay, thank you for asking that.

727
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. Please read it cover to cover

728
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: because you know a lot of people they'll pick it

729
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: up and they're like, Okay, i'm traveling this country, I'm

730
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: gonna read this story. But there really is a narrative

731
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: that's the through line throughout the book. So I just asked,

732
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: please read it cover to cover and then you can

733
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: use it as a reference book later. So a lot

734
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: of people told me they enjoyed listening to the audio

735
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: book because it's just you know, with books, it's easier

736
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: to just listen to them, but then you obviously, with

737
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: over three hundred images, you have that to look at,

738
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: and it's I think it's really beautiful. One of my

739
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: favorite things about this book it was designed by a

740
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: black woman. There were not a lot of black people

741
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: involved in making o this book. It's with National Geographic,

742
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: but it was designed by a black woman. It's the

743
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: first time a National Geographic book has had gold foil

744
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: on it. That was all her idea. So everything you've

745
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: seen and obviously they're my pictures, but it's her design

746
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: that got us here. So I'm just so happy that

747
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 1: it was designed by a black woman. So it's really beautiful.

748
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: It's great for your coffee table. But I just asked

749
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: that you please read it cover to cover at some point.

750
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you for that history. So you also

751
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 1: on your blog wrote a really powerful blog post entitled

752
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: My ten Favorite shiphole Countries, where you detailed the incredible

753
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: beauty and magic of country, some of the ones you've

754
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: already talked about, like Haiti, Sudan in Tanzania. Why was

755
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: it important for you to write that and why do

756
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: you think it's important for us as travelers to disengage

757
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: with this kind of rhetoric and experienced countries for themselves

758
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: and for my own opinions? Yeah, I mean, you know

759
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: that guy who used to be in office, who was

760
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: making all types of crazy remarks. I said it after

761
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: the comments that he made that came out. Yeah, the

762
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 1: thing is like and we're seeing it clearly now. Right

763
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: before people didn't quite understand the bias and the media.

764
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: Now it's just incredibly clear how biased it is. But

765
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: I always say, just unplugged from all of that. It's

766
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: okay if you don't watch CNN, nothing will happen in

767
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: your life. But I think it's really important that you

768
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: go to places before you make judgments about them, or

769
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: talk to guides and advance, because they're always going to

770
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: know more about their country than a CNN right, or

771
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: a Fox News or whatever it is people are listening

772
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 1: to and watching. But I really hope through reading the book,

773
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: because the book has a lot of countries that aren't

774
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: on the traditional tourism path, I really hope that this book,

775
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: in my journey in general, just helps people to think

776
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: differently about certain places. You know, like in the book

777
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: there's a picture of a beach and Yemen. Who has

778
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: ever seen a beautiful picture from Yemen? It's just not

779
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: something we see. So even in writing the book, I

780
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 1: was so intentional about the countries that I included, because

781
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: I only included one hundred of the I was super

782
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: intentional about it because I remember reading this book years ago.

783
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: It was a book that had an image and a

784
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: in like an entry for every single country in the world. Right,

785
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: So I'm a geography nerd. I was excited. And I

786
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: go to Uganda and there was a picture of a

787
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: little dirty boy in the market, and that's the only

788
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: picture that was representing my country. And I'm like, what

789
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: you have, La Victoria. You have the source of the

790
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: Nile River, you have other lakes, mountains, animals, beautiful people,

791
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: and gorgeous textiles. And this is the singular image that

792
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: you pick to go into a book to represent Uganda,

793
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: and that stuck with me all these years. That was

794
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: probably like fifteen years ago. So when I had the

795
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: opportunity to work with National Geographic, I'm like, I want

796
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: to share beautiful images of places, you know what I mean.

797
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: We don't see pictures of people that give them their dignity.

798
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: There's a picture of a man in South Sudan in

799
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: a market and I think he's so beautiful, right, and

800
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: he was just literally sitting in the middle of the market.

801
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: So you know, someone who doesn't look like me, it

802
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: might take his picture and it's like, oh God, this

803
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: poor man is sitting in the market on the floor.

804
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: But I take it and it's like, look at the

805
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: beauty of this man. And then I got his story

806
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: and actually he was retired and all his children had

807
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: grown and we're in school and we're gone, and so

808
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: he just sat there to entertain himself all day. But

809
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: we make assumptions about people, especially people again who are

810
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: not African going in. They make assumptions and make things

811
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: appear the way that maybe they actually aren't. So yeah,

812
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: I just think we have to give places a chance

813
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: and sort of tune out the noise before you go. So, Jessica,

814
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: where can we stay connected to all of the amazing

815
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: things that you have going on? What's your website as

816
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 1: well as any social media handles you'd like to share? Yeah,

817
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: so my website is the catchman. If you can dot

818
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: com and then you can find me hang out mostly

819
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Jessica no bongo. Okay, well we should

820
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: include that in the show notes. Well, thank you so

821
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: much for sharing your wisdom and expertise with us today, Jessica.

822
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: I think this will help lots of future travelers, so

823
00:45:53,719 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm so glad

824
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: Jessica was able to join us to share her exercise

825
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: with us today. To learn more about her and her work,

826
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: or to grab a copy of her book, visit the

827
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 1: show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash

828
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: session to and don't forget to text two of your

829
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: girls right now and tell them to check out the episode.

830
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be

831
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for

832
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want

833
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in

834
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: community with other sisters. Come on over and join us

835
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet,

836
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: design just for black women. You can join us at

837
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: community dot therapy for black girls dot com. Thank you

838
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I

839
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: look forward to continue in this conversation with you all

840
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: real soon. Take it care.