1 00:00:08,722 --> 00:00:10,202 Speaker 1: Fireheart originals. 2 00:00:10,322 --> 00:00:20,762 Speaker 2: This is an iHeart original. In nineteen twenty nine, Joseph 3 00:00:20,802 --> 00:00:25,162 Speaker 2: Stalin ordered the farmers of the Soviet Union to start 4 00:00:25,202 --> 00:00:30,122 Speaker 2: a utopia. Back then, the USSR was a quilt of 5 00:00:30,242 --> 00:00:37,242 Speaker 2: old school, frankly almost medieval farming villages. Peasants lived simply. 6 00:00:37,762 --> 00:00:40,842 Speaker 2: They grew their own food and if they felt like it, 7 00:00:40,922 --> 00:00:45,882 Speaker 2: sold the surplus. Stalin saw that as a problem. The 8 00:00:45,922 --> 00:00:51,802 Speaker 2: Soviet Union was industrializing. People were flocking to cities, and 9 00:00:52,002 --> 00:00:55,282 Speaker 2: many of them didn't have garden plots to grow their 10 00:00:55,322 --> 00:01:00,882 Speaker 2: own food. Meanwhile, the country's stockpile of grain was shrinking 11 00:01:01,082 --> 00:01:04,682 Speaker 2: by the day. The situation was so bad that the 12 00:01:04,882 --> 00:01:10,242 Speaker 2: USSR was importing wheat and rye from the United States. 13 00:01:11,282 --> 00:01:16,162 Speaker 2: As you can imagine, Stalin hated this, so he cooked 14 00:01:16,242 --> 00:01:19,442 Speaker 2: up a strategy to fill every belly in the country 15 00:01:19,842 --> 00:01:26,682 Speaker 2: with locally grown food. The plan collectivization. The state would 16 00:01:26,762 --> 00:01:31,522 Speaker 2: take over farms and all those old school peasants would 17 00:01:31,602 --> 00:01:37,802 Speaker 2: begin growing food for everybody with the stroke of a pen. 18 00:01:38,322 --> 00:01:42,962 Speaker 2: The government began gobbling up farmland. It bought new state 19 00:01:43,002 --> 00:01:47,402 Speaker 2: of the art machinery. It introduced new breeds of high yield, 20 00:01:47,722 --> 00:01:52,842 Speaker 2: disease resistant crops, but there was one problem. Many of 21 00:01:52,882 --> 00:01:56,162 Speaker 2: the farmers refused to join the fight. 22 00:01:57,802 --> 00:02:02,322 Speaker 3: There was sort of a systemic depression among farmers. Now 23 00:02:02,362 --> 00:02:05,162 Speaker 3: they were working for Stalin, not for themselves. 24 00:02:06,242 --> 00:02:11,642 Speaker 2: That's Gary Paul Nabhan. He's an agricultural ecologist, conservationist, and 25 00:02:11,882 --> 00:02:16,562 Speaker 2: past winner of a MacArthur Genius Grant. He describes Stalin's 26 00:02:16,562 --> 00:02:20,962 Speaker 2: push for collectivization this way. Imagine you live on a 27 00:02:21,002 --> 00:02:25,322 Speaker 2: farm that's been in your family for generations. You know 28 00:02:25,482 --> 00:02:27,882 Speaker 2: the land inside and out. 29 00:02:28,242 --> 00:02:30,962 Speaker 3: Say have a pride in taking care of their land. 30 00:02:31,442 --> 00:02:36,002 Speaker 3: They have motivations for working hard to produce crops, both 31 00:02:36,042 --> 00:02:37,802 Speaker 3: for their own food and for others. 32 00:02:38,842 --> 00:02:42,162 Speaker 2: And now suddenly the government is handing you seeds and 33 00:02:42,322 --> 00:02:46,122 Speaker 2: giving you quotas, and you can't even keep the spoils. 34 00:02:47,002 --> 00:02:52,442 Speaker 2: Farmers didn't take the news well, especially the most powerful peasants, 35 00:02:52,802 --> 00:02:56,962 Speaker 2: a class of farmers called the Kulos. They simply ignored 36 00:02:57,162 --> 00:03:02,042 Speaker 2: Stalin's demands. When Stalin realized that the Kulaks were resisting, 37 00:03:02,482 --> 00:03:06,922 Speaker 2: he didn't respond with a sternly written letter. He responds 38 00:03:07,362 --> 00:03:12,402 Speaker 2: by promising and I quote, to liquidate the Kulaks as 39 00:03:12,482 --> 00:03:20,442 Speaker 2: a class. Police swooped onto Kulock farms around five million 40 00:03:20,562 --> 00:03:26,202 Speaker 2: would be arrested, deported sent to prison camps. Untold numbers 41 00:03:26,282 --> 00:03:33,202 Speaker 2: were killed. Turns out, exterminating your most successful farmers is 42 00:03:33,242 --> 00:03:40,002 Speaker 2: a bad idea. Productivity plummeted, food became even more scarce, 43 00:03:40,682 --> 00:03:46,002 Speaker 2: yields failed to improve, and the USSR plunged into a 44 00:03:46,122 --> 00:03:50,602 Speaker 2: famine that would lead to the deaths of seven million people. 45 00:03:51,442 --> 00:03:54,602 Speaker 2: Not to put too fine a point on it, but 46 00:03:54,682 --> 00:03:58,042 Speaker 2: Stalin had gotten himself into a bit of a mess. 47 00:03:58,522 --> 00:04:01,482 Speaker 2: He needed help, and one of the people he turned 48 00:04:01,562 --> 00:04:07,922 Speaker 2: to was a guy named Nikolai Vavolov was one of 49 00:04:07,962 --> 00:04:12,402 Speaker 2: the world's leading experts in plant genetics. He had turned 50 00:04:12,482 --> 00:04:16,922 Speaker 2: the dusty botanical labs of Imperial Russia into the world 51 00:04:17,122 --> 00:04:21,802 Speaker 2: capital for plant science, and now his job was to 52 00:04:22,002 --> 00:04:27,322 Speaker 2: resurrect Soviet agriculture, to turn the USSR into a self 53 00:04:27,362 --> 00:04:33,802 Speaker 2: sufficient farming wonderland with crops sprouting from the desolate scrublands 54 00:04:33,802 --> 00:04:38,002 Speaker 2: of the Eurasian step to the craggy mountains of Kazakhstan. 55 00:04:39,122 --> 00:04:43,362 Speaker 2: Vavolov would work tirelessly to lift his country out of 56 00:04:43,402 --> 00:04:48,322 Speaker 2: Stalin's man made famine, but he was also a realist. 57 00:04:48,842 --> 00:04:52,002 Speaker 2: He told the government it would take years to recover 58 00:04:52,722 --> 00:04:58,562 Speaker 2: developing new hardy plant breeds took time. Stalin didn't want 59 00:04:58,602 --> 00:05:03,962 Speaker 2: to hear this. He wanted a solution fast. He needed 60 00:05:04,162 --> 00:05:09,322 Speaker 2: somebody who would make collectivization and work, somebody who could 61 00:05:09,402 --> 00:05:13,722 Speaker 2: engineer seeds that could be planted anywhere, anytime of the year. 62 00:05:14,362 --> 00:05:19,162 Speaker 2: So he began searching for a hero. The search would 63 00:05:19,242 --> 00:05:23,002 Speaker 2: bring the Soviet Union to its knees, and it would 64 00:05:23,042 --> 00:05:28,322 Speaker 2: force Nikolai Vavilov to make a fateful choice, one between 65 00:05:28,362 --> 00:05:33,642 Speaker 2: the truth or his life. Welcome to very special episodes 66 00:05:33,682 --> 00:05:38,322 Speaker 2: and iHeart original podcast. I'm your host, Danish Schwartz, and 67 00:05:38,362 --> 00:05:45,562 Speaker 2: this is seed Wars. I have to say I was 68 00:05:45,642 --> 00:05:48,562 Speaker 2: never a botany kid. I know some kids are, you know, 69 00:05:48,602 --> 00:05:51,642 Speaker 2: out in the backyard, like looking at leaves, identifying trees. 70 00:05:52,242 --> 00:05:54,642 Speaker 2: That was never a skill set of mind. But add 71 00:05:54,642 --> 00:05:57,882 Speaker 2: a historical element and add some characters like Bavolov, and 72 00:05:57,882 --> 00:05:59,682 Speaker 2: then that makes me care about botany. 73 00:05:59,802 --> 00:06:03,202 Speaker 4: My fiance is all about plants and trees, like I can, 74 00:06:03,202 --> 00:06:05,042 Speaker 4: I think, point to any tree and say what is that? 75 00:06:05,082 --> 00:06:07,762 Speaker 4: And she'll know, So for her the story would be amazing. 76 00:06:07,802 --> 00:06:09,602 Speaker 4: For me, I was just wrapped up in the Vavilov 77 00:06:09,642 --> 00:06:11,922 Speaker 4: of it, like just it's so wrong, what happens. 78 00:06:12,162 --> 00:06:14,242 Speaker 5: I want to give a shout out before we start 79 00:06:14,322 --> 00:06:18,882 Speaker 5: to Lucas Riley, who wrote today's episode, So if you 80 00:06:19,002 --> 00:06:22,882 Speaker 5: like the botany aspects, he wrote another show here called 81 00:06:23,002 --> 00:06:26,522 Speaker 5: Bad Seeds, so check that out. If you like the 82 00:06:26,562 --> 00:06:31,802 Speaker 5: repressive dictatorship aspects, he worked on a show called Big Brother, 83 00:06:31,962 --> 00:06:35,122 Speaker 5: all about the assassination of Kim Jong UN's older brother. 84 00:06:35,242 --> 00:06:39,242 Speaker 5: So something for everybody. And in this episode we kind 85 00:06:39,242 --> 00:06:39,922 Speaker 5: of combine them. 86 00:06:40,202 --> 00:06:43,122 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And also the Soviet Union, what's up without 87 00:06:43,122 --> 00:06:45,242 Speaker 4: it always sounds like the worst group project in the 88 00:06:45,282 --> 00:06:48,002 Speaker 4: history of humanity. Like nothing is worse than Like I 89 00:06:48,042 --> 00:06:49,562 Speaker 4: got together with some of my Soviets and we came 90 00:06:49,642 --> 00:06:50,242 Speaker 4: up with a plan. 91 00:06:50,522 --> 00:06:54,882 Speaker 5: One quick spoiler. We have some superb voice acting by 92 00:06:54,922 --> 00:06:57,922 Speaker 5: one of the three of us later in this episode, 93 00:06:58,042 --> 00:06:58,762 Speaker 5: and it's not me. 94 00:06:59,402 --> 00:07:02,722 Speaker 2: It's not me. I have my podcast voice and that's it. 95 00:07:03,722 --> 00:07:07,442 Speaker 5: This was showing new new talents. I'd have to do 96 00:07:07,482 --> 00:07:11,922 Speaker 5: an episode about Zarin's acting abilities and career later on. 97 00:07:12,282 --> 00:07:13,722 Speaker 5: I don't know if we can get into it now. 98 00:07:13,922 --> 00:07:16,002 Speaker 4: And how I draw inspiration from the Hunt for the 99 00:07:16,042 --> 00:07:18,002 Speaker 4: Red October for my Russian accents. 100 00:07:18,242 --> 00:07:21,842 Speaker 2: This is just a fascinating story. We get botany, we 101 00:07:21,922 --> 00:07:25,842 Speaker 2: get seed banks, we get politics, we get Russian accents. 102 00:07:25,922 --> 00:07:27,122 Speaker 2: I mean, should we get into it? 103 00:07:27,442 --> 00:07:28,362 Speaker 5: Yeah, let's do do it. 104 00:07:33,202 --> 00:07:36,282 Speaker 2: When Nikola I Vovolov was a kid, he heard horrific 105 00:07:36,482 --> 00:07:40,202 Speaker 2: stories from family about what it was like to almost 106 00:07:40,242 --> 00:07:41,242 Speaker 2: starve to death. 107 00:07:41,642 --> 00:07:46,722 Speaker 3: Russia I had undergone several famines from the eighteen sixties 108 00:07:46,802 --> 00:07:52,642 Speaker 3: on that literally devastated the population. There was great traumatic 109 00:07:52,722 --> 00:07:57,682 Speaker 3: stress in his own family about the dramatic social cost 110 00:07:58,162 --> 00:08:00,002 Speaker 3: of those famines. 111 00:08:00,962 --> 00:08:04,682 Speaker 2: Hunger was a fact of life in the late eighteen hundreds. 112 00:08:04,922 --> 00:08:08,802 Speaker 2: When you went out, you expected to see people's bones 113 00:08:09,002 --> 00:08:12,202 Speaker 2: through their clothes. It was like living in a world 114 00:08:12,282 --> 00:08:18,202 Speaker 2: where skeletons walked the streets. But this nightmarish vision fired 115 00:08:18,322 --> 00:08:22,682 Speaker 2: up Vavolov. He had a dream to create a world 116 00:08:22,962 --> 00:08:27,602 Speaker 2: where nobody would starve. As a kid attending the Petrovskiya 117 00:08:27,682 --> 00:08:31,122 Speaker 2: Agricultural Academy, he wrote in his diary. 118 00:08:31,562 --> 00:08:35,962 Speaker 6: I want to commit my life to understanding nature for 119 00:08:36,282 --> 00:08:41,602 Speaker 6: the betterment of humankind, to work for the benefit of Zippor. 120 00:08:42,962 --> 00:08:47,162 Speaker 2: Vavolov hit the books and became a plant science whiz kid. 121 00:08:47,682 --> 00:08:52,602 Speaker 2: After graduating, he traveled abroad to study even more In England, 122 00:08:52,642 --> 00:08:57,762 Speaker 2: he studied evolutionary theory by pouring over the original manuscripts 123 00:08:58,082 --> 00:09:02,762 Speaker 2: in Charles Darwin's personal library. Along the way, he made 124 00:09:02,842 --> 00:09:04,282 Speaker 2: important contacts. 125 00:09:04,722 --> 00:09:10,682 Speaker 3: Babolov was in contact with some of the greatest evolutionary geneticist. 126 00:09:11,602 --> 00:09:15,802 Speaker 2: One of those great geneticists was William Bateson, the man 127 00:09:15,882 --> 00:09:19,882 Speaker 2: who literally came up with the word genetics. He also 128 00:09:20,002 --> 00:09:24,202 Speaker 2: added people like Reginald Punnitt to his rolodex, which if 129 00:09:24,242 --> 00:09:28,562 Speaker 2: you remember doing Punnitt squares in high school biology, it's 130 00:09:28,802 --> 00:09:34,202 Speaker 2: well that guy. By his late twenties, Vavolov's vast network 131 00:09:34,242 --> 00:09:38,962 Speaker 2: of connections turned him into an internationally known up and comer. 132 00:09:40,162 --> 00:09:43,922 Speaker 2: It helped that Vavolov was, frankly, a really nice guy. 133 00:09:44,602 --> 00:09:47,202 Speaker 2: He was one of those people who seemed to have 134 00:09:47,242 --> 00:09:51,602 Speaker 2: an endless battery, always on the go, solving problems at 135 00:09:51,642 --> 00:09:55,682 Speaker 2: every turn. He seemed to never sleep, but was always 136 00:09:55,842 --> 00:10:01,162 Speaker 2: radiating energy and enthusiasm. He carried a smile everywhere he went, 137 00:10:01,602 --> 00:10:04,842 Speaker 2: and he never forgot the names of people he worked with. 138 00:10:05,522 --> 00:10:10,362 Speaker 2: Simply Vavolov, it was a mensch and a talented one too. 139 00:10:11,002 --> 00:10:14,882 Speaker 2: As a young scientist, he started connecting dots that nobody 140 00:10:14,922 --> 00:10:20,242 Speaker 2: had ever considered. Take for example, this idea about plant diversity. 141 00:10:20,922 --> 00:10:23,402 Speaker 3: He was the first one to sell the alarm about 142 00:10:23,482 --> 00:10:28,922 Speaker 3: biodiversity that connected it to our food system. Wabolov was 143 00:10:29,362 --> 00:10:35,242 Speaker 3: clear that famines were going to occur at an increasingly 144 00:10:35,642 --> 00:10:40,082 Speaker 3: frequent and severe level if we didn't diversify our food system. 145 00:10:40,922 --> 00:10:46,002 Speaker 2: Weavlov argued that if most farms raised the exact species 146 00:10:46,082 --> 00:10:50,562 Speaker 2: of the exact same crop, a single disease could decimate 147 00:10:50,602 --> 00:10:55,722 Speaker 2: the region, but plant diversity could prevent these future calamities. 148 00:10:56,402 --> 00:11:01,962 Speaker 3: It was chafing that against quickly evolving question and diseases. 149 00:11:02,642 --> 00:11:06,842 Speaker 2: Vavolov resolved to take this knowledge home. He returned to 150 00:11:07,002 --> 00:11:12,362 Speaker 2: Russia and joined the Ministry of Agriculture, and then his 151 00:11:12,402 --> 00:11:19,122 Speaker 2: country changed for good. The Tsar is dethroned, the Winter 152 00:11:19,282 --> 00:11:27,642 Speaker 2: Palace is stormed. Vladimir Lenin takes control for Vavolov. The 153 00:11:27,762 --> 00:11:32,522 Speaker 2: new Communist government is pretty friendly to his research interests. 154 00:11:33,122 --> 00:11:37,202 Speaker 2: The Bolsheviks were pitching themselves as a party of peasants' rights. 155 00:11:37,722 --> 00:11:42,762 Speaker 2: Lenin in particular knew the country's poorest needed easy access 156 00:11:42,802 --> 00:11:46,482 Speaker 2: to food. The famine to prevent is the next one, 157 00:11:46,802 --> 00:11:50,522 Speaker 2: Lenin said, and the time to begin is now. The 158 00:11:50,562 --> 00:11:56,922 Speaker 2: Soviets funneled money into agricultural research. Flush with cash, Vavlov's 159 00:11:57,082 --> 00:12:02,402 Speaker 2: tiny botany bureau would become a plant breeding mecca. Meanwhile, 160 00:12:02,482 --> 00:12:06,322 Speaker 2: Vavolov was doing some cutting edge research. When he was 161 00:12:06,402 --> 00:12:11,002 Speaker 2: thirty three, he presented a theory on plant classification that 162 00:12:11,122 --> 00:12:16,962 Speaker 2: turned him into Russia's top plant science celebrity. Vavolov was 163 00:12:17,002 --> 00:12:22,602 Speaker 2: becoming hot stuff. Russia's leading botanist called him quote the 164 00:12:22,642 --> 00:12:27,842 Speaker 2: future pride of Russian science. The Komissar of Agriculture compared 165 00:12:27,922 --> 00:12:32,402 Speaker 2: him to the inventor of the periodic table. Biology, he 166 00:12:32,522 --> 00:12:37,882 Speaker 2: said has found its Mendolaev. With Vavolov's profile on the rise, 167 00:12:38,362 --> 00:12:42,882 Speaker 2: he had the Soviet government's attention, and he made a pitch. 168 00:12:43,522 --> 00:12:47,722 Speaker 2: If the USSR was going to diversify its crops, if 169 00:12:47,722 --> 00:12:51,642 Speaker 2: it was going to breed new varieties of plants, then 170 00:12:51,682 --> 00:12:56,402 Speaker 2: the government would need a library of sorts, a library 171 00:12:57,122 --> 00:12:58,802 Speaker 2: of seeds. 172 00:12:59,362 --> 00:13:06,802 Speaker 3: It was to be the first living collection of culture 173 00:13:07,962 --> 00:13:10,442 Speaker 3: seeds from around the world. 174 00:13:11,242 --> 00:13:15,642 Speaker 2: To build this library, Vavolov would have to travel and 175 00:13:15,802 --> 00:13:18,602 Speaker 2: collect every seed variety known. 176 00:13:18,562 --> 00:13:25,082 Speaker 3: To man to find resistance and tolerant strains of those 177 00:13:25,762 --> 00:13:29,762 Speaker 3: prop plants and then to either breed them or select 178 00:13:29,762 --> 00:13:32,722 Speaker 3: them to new conditions and uses. 179 00:13:33,802 --> 00:13:39,522 Speaker 2: The government listened to Vavolov's pitch and approved it. Soon 180 00:13:39,802 --> 00:13:42,042 Speaker 2: the young scientist was hitting the. 181 00:13:42,042 --> 00:13:48,842 Speaker 3: Road horseback, mule back, camelback in small plains and wrapting 182 00:13:48,962 --> 00:13:52,602 Speaker 3: rivers to get to places where he thought he might 183 00:13:52,842 --> 00:13:56,242 Speaker 3: find seeds that had been underappreciated. 184 00:13:57,242 --> 00:14:03,002 Speaker 2: Vavolov's passport grew fat with stamps. He traveled to Persia, Afghanistan, 185 00:14:03,362 --> 00:14:09,242 Speaker 2: Syria and Palestine. He explored Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Ethiopia. 186 00:14:09,722 --> 00:14:13,442 Speaker 2: He searched for seeds in Italy and crete in China 187 00:14:13,562 --> 00:14:19,642 Speaker 2: and Japan, In Mexico, Peru, Chile and Trinidad. Vavolov became 188 00:14:19,762 --> 00:14:24,322 Speaker 2: the world's top seed hunter, bringing tens of thousands of 189 00:14:24,402 --> 00:14:29,162 Speaker 2: specimens back to his seed library in Leningrad. He didn't 190 00:14:29,282 --> 00:14:33,442 Speaker 2: just collect seeds, though, he collected local knowledge. 191 00:14:33,562 --> 00:14:33,762 Speaker 6: Two. 192 00:14:35,042 --> 00:14:38,202 Speaker 3: He was really the first scientist to listen deeply to 193 00:14:38,322 --> 00:14:41,442 Speaker 3: the traditional knowledge of farmers. 194 00:14:42,122 --> 00:14:45,522 Speaker 2: He'd ask, where do you grow this crop in moist soil, 195 00:14:45,842 --> 00:14:49,122 Speaker 2: dry soil, on the side of a hill in the shade. 196 00:14:49,362 --> 00:14:53,122 Speaker 2: What time of day do you water it? Vavolov sponged 197 00:14:53,242 --> 00:14:56,602 Speaker 2: in all of the knowledge he could, and by doing 198 00:14:56,682 --> 00:15:05,842 Speaker 2: that he formed another bombshell idea. It's nineteen twenty four 199 00:15:06,002 --> 00:15:10,162 Speaker 2: and Vavolov is in Afghanistan. He steps into a region 200 00:15:10,402 --> 00:15:17,002 Speaker 2: called Nuristan Province, a place of unspoiled beauty. Imagine jagged 201 00:15:17,202 --> 00:15:22,802 Speaker 2: tan mountains carpeted with pine trees, valleys of lush tall grass, 202 00:15:23,442 --> 00:15:29,762 Speaker 2: rivers blue as a gemstone, all untouched by agriculture. Wandering 203 00:15:29,882 --> 00:15:33,522 Speaker 2: the foothills, Vavolov is struck by an idea. 204 00:15:34,282 --> 00:15:38,282 Speaker 3: He realized that which diversity of plants are distributed in 205 00:15:38,362 --> 00:15:44,162 Speaker 3: a few patches river basins, or coastlines or mountain ranges, 206 00:15:44,682 --> 00:15:48,162 Speaker 3: they had been maintained in place for thousands of years 207 00:15:48,802 --> 00:15:53,882 Speaker 3: and had diversified into all kinds of colors and shapes, 208 00:15:53,922 --> 00:15:57,322 Speaker 3: almost like a rainbow of food plant diversity. 209 00:15:58,722 --> 00:16:01,922 Speaker 2: That is, there are a handful of places on Earth 210 00:16:02,242 --> 00:16:07,762 Speaker 2: that preserve a dazzling diversity of ancient crumps. These regions 211 00:16:07,802 --> 00:16:13,082 Speaker 2: are like natural museums, and they are Vavolov suggested the 212 00:16:13,122 --> 00:16:17,602 Speaker 2: center of origin for those plant species. In other words, 213 00:16:17,722 --> 00:16:21,922 Speaker 2: places like this valley in Afghanistan was where the world's 214 00:16:21,962 --> 00:16:23,242 Speaker 2: food originated. 215 00:16:24,242 --> 00:16:30,322 Speaker 3: The food crops that are the mainstays of every country 216 00:16:30,362 --> 00:16:33,562 Speaker 3: in the world come from just a few places. 217 00:16:34,842 --> 00:16:40,442 Speaker 2: This idea, what Vavolov called gene centers, would turn Vavolov 218 00:16:40,482 --> 00:16:46,082 Speaker 2: the plant celebrity into Vavolov the plant genius. Vavolov became 219 00:16:46,322 --> 00:16:50,762 Speaker 2: the most famous plant scientists, not only in Russia, but 220 00:16:50,922 --> 00:16:56,642 Speaker 2: arguably in the whole world. Vavolov's new theory essentially helped 221 00:16:56,682 --> 00:17:01,002 Speaker 2: create a manual for making new breeds of plants, breeds 222 00:17:01,042 --> 00:17:05,242 Speaker 2: that could stand up to drought or heavy rain, or disease, 223 00:17:05,882 --> 00:17:10,722 Speaker 2: even the unpredictable seasons of Russia. Here's Vavolov again, with 224 00:17:10,882 --> 00:17:15,362 Speaker 2: an assist from Peter Pringle's translations in his excellent book 225 00:17:15,482 --> 00:17:16,162 Speaker 2: on Bablov. 226 00:17:16,922 --> 00:17:22,602 Speaker 6: We have before us is the possibility of sculpturing organic 227 00:17:22,722 --> 00:17:27,242 Speaker 6: forms at vil. In the near future, men will be 228 00:17:27,322 --> 00:17:32,882 Speaker 6: able by means of crossing, to synthesize forms such as 229 00:17:32,962 --> 00:17:37,922 Speaker 6: are absolutely unknown in nature. 230 00:17:39,602 --> 00:17:42,602 Speaker 2: When Vavolov came home from his adventures with a new 231 00:17:42,642 --> 00:17:47,122 Speaker 2: collection of seeds, he'd mail the specimens out to experimental 232 00:17:47,202 --> 00:17:51,682 Speaker 2: research farms that were scattered across the Soviet Union. There, 233 00:17:51,722 --> 00:17:55,642 Speaker 2: groups of scientists would plant the seeds and observe how 234 00:17:55,682 --> 00:18:00,762 Speaker 2: they grew in varied soil and climate conditions. Vavolov's work 235 00:18:00,882 --> 00:18:05,082 Speaker 2: would launch the USSR to the peak of plant science. 236 00:18:05,762 --> 00:18:10,042 Speaker 2: It would also launch his international career. He'd be elected 237 00:18:10,282 --> 00:18:16,602 Speaker 2: vice president and later president of the International Genetics Conference. 238 00:18:17,482 --> 00:18:23,642 Speaker 2: In the USSR, he became leader of eighteen different agricultural posts. 239 00:18:23,962 --> 00:18:27,682 Speaker 2: At the Bureau of Applied Botany, he managed more than 240 00:18:27,842 --> 00:18:32,482 Speaker 2: fifteen hundred staff members and was hiring more by the day. 241 00:18:33,162 --> 00:18:37,922 Speaker 2: Vavlov was assembling an army of scientists, and one of 242 00:18:37,962 --> 00:18:43,002 Speaker 2: the people to join that army was a kid named Trophimlesenko. 243 00:18:43,722 --> 00:18:48,002 Speaker 2: Lisenka was a poor kid with little formal education. He 244 00:18:48,122 --> 00:18:52,362 Speaker 2: worked at an experimental farm in Azerbaijan, where he tended 245 00:18:52,442 --> 00:18:56,642 Speaker 2: plots of pea plants in bear feet. He was a nobody, 246 00:18:57,322 --> 00:19:02,282 Speaker 2: but he was an ambitious nobody, and soon he would 247 00:19:02,362 --> 00:19:18,362 Speaker 2: wreck everything Vavolov had built. Trofim Lisenko was nothing like 248 00:19:18,482 --> 00:19:24,242 Speaker 2: Nikolai Vavlov. Where Vavolov was gregarious and open, Lisenka was 249 00:19:24,362 --> 00:19:30,722 Speaker 2: joyless and cold. Vavolov had an actual twinkle in his eyes. Meanwhile, 250 00:19:30,882 --> 00:19:36,082 Speaker 2: Lisenka was gaunt, with shallow eyes and tight sunken cheeks. 251 00:19:36,722 --> 00:19:41,242 Speaker 2: A journalist at the newspaper Pravda charitably described him as 252 00:19:41,402 --> 00:19:47,362 Speaker 2: quote stingy of words and insignificant of face. Unlike Vavolov, 253 00:19:47,442 --> 00:19:50,922 Speaker 2: who trained at universities under some of the most famous 254 00:19:50,962 --> 00:19:56,002 Speaker 2: geneticists of his day, Lisenka was mostly self taught. The 255 00:19:56,082 --> 00:20:01,762 Speaker 2: two men's educations reflected their backgrounds. Vavolov was born to privilege, 256 00:20:01,882 --> 00:20:07,562 Speaker 2: Lisenko born to peasants. Since Lisenko grew up farming, he 257 00:20:07,642 --> 00:20:11,522 Speaker 2: knew plants inside and out. He often said that he 258 00:20:11,602 --> 00:20:16,482 Speaker 2: didn't need a fancy science degree to understand how plants worked. 259 00:20:17,162 --> 00:20:21,242 Speaker 2: By the nineteen twenties, Lisenko was working at an experimental 260 00:20:21,322 --> 00:20:25,242 Speaker 2: plant breeding station in Azerbaijan where he was growing peas, 261 00:20:26,002 --> 00:20:30,762 Speaker 2: and he was trying something unique. Usually peas are grown 262 00:20:30,962 --> 00:20:35,122 Speaker 2: over the spring and summer, but Lisenko wanted to try 263 00:20:35,122 --> 00:20:38,202 Speaker 2: to grow them over the winter so that the local 264 00:20:38,362 --> 00:20:42,082 Speaker 2: cattle would have something to munch on over the cold months. 265 00:20:42,922 --> 00:20:47,162 Speaker 2: And it worked. Lisenko felt exhilarated. It was like he 266 00:20:47,242 --> 00:20:50,842 Speaker 2: had cracked a secret code, a way to grow plants 267 00:20:50,962 --> 00:20:54,002 Speaker 2: any time of the year. If this was true, it 268 00:20:54,122 --> 00:20:59,482 Speaker 2: was groundbreaking. It could increase yields and save lives. He 269 00:20:59,562 --> 00:21:05,802 Speaker 2: started telling everybody about it, including journalists. When a reporter 270 00:21:06,042 --> 00:21:10,882 Speaker 2: with the state run newspaper Pravda visited Lisenko's farm, the 271 00:21:10,922 --> 00:21:15,722 Speaker 2: writer took the gardener at his word. The story, after all, 272 00:21:15,882 --> 00:21:20,442 Speaker 2: had a good hook. A young, uneducated scientist who had 273 00:21:20,482 --> 00:21:24,242 Speaker 2: grown up dirt poor was using his common sense to 274 00:21:24,322 --> 00:21:29,402 Speaker 2: make scientific discoveries. The writer said that Lisenko didn't quote 275 00:21:29,642 --> 00:21:33,322 Speaker 2: toil in a laboratory away from the land. He went 276 00:21:33,482 --> 00:21:37,802 Speaker 2: to the root of things back at the seed library 277 00:21:37,882 --> 00:21:42,122 Speaker 2: in Leningrad. Vavolov must have read the article with amusement. 278 00:21:42,962 --> 00:21:47,802 Speaker 2: Lisenko hadn't discovered anything. Regular farmers had stumbled upon the 279 00:21:47,802 --> 00:21:52,002 Speaker 2: same trick generations ago. In fact, Vavolov had created an 280 00:21:52,162 --> 00:21:56,442 Speaker 2: entire department to study the effects of heat, light, climate, 281 00:21:56,562 --> 00:22:00,762 Speaker 2: and season on plant growth. But Lisenko didn't know this. 282 00:22:01,322 --> 00:22:04,082 Speaker 2: He didn't read botany journals or keep up with the 283 00:22:04,202 --> 00:22:08,442 Speaker 2: latest science, so when he made his so called discovery, 284 00:22:08,962 --> 00:22:13,482 Speaker 2: he was convinced it was news to everybody. Vavolov didn't 285 00:22:13,482 --> 00:22:17,482 Speaker 2: resent Lisenko for taking credit for an old idea. The 286 00:22:17,562 --> 00:22:21,842 Speaker 2: kid clearly had talent, so he encouraged the young scientists 287 00:22:21,922 --> 00:22:25,482 Speaker 2: to keep at it. In the meantime, Vavolov was curious 288 00:22:25,522 --> 00:22:29,082 Speaker 2: about Lisenko's methods, so he sent one of his top 289 00:22:29,162 --> 00:22:34,762 Speaker 2: scientists down to Azerbaijan to check on Lisenko's science. The 290 00:22:34,882 --> 00:22:40,482 Speaker 2: report that came back was not great. Lisenko had little 291 00:22:40,562 --> 00:22:44,642 Speaker 2: knowledge of scientific literature. The report said, he paid no 292 00:22:44,722 --> 00:22:49,642 Speaker 2: attention to pesky things like lab practices or control groups. 293 00:22:50,322 --> 00:22:56,002 Speaker 2: Lisenko wasn't tracking any data. He was just charting vibes 294 00:22:56,962 --> 00:23:01,282 Speaker 2: up in Leningrad. Vavolov was dismayed by the report, but 295 00:23:01,482 --> 00:23:05,962 Speaker 2: remained optimistic that Lisenka was just young and arrogant. He 296 00:23:06,002 --> 00:23:11,122 Speaker 2: would grow out of it. But Vavolov's optimism was his weakness. 297 00:23:11,522 --> 00:23:14,802 Speaker 2: He didn't know that Lisenko had no interest in learning 298 00:23:14,962 --> 00:23:19,242 Speaker 2: from so called elites like him. He didn't know that 299 00:23:19,322 --> 00:23:25,402 Speaker 2: Lisenko thought universities were quote harmful nonsense. Lisenko was one 300 00:23:25,442 --> 00:23:29,522 Speaker 2: of those people who was convinced he already knew everything, 301 00:23:30,402 --> 00:23:36,082 Speaker 2: which is funny because Lisenko believed a lot of nonsense. 302 00:23:37,162 --> 00:23:43,482 Speaker 3: Lisenko was stuck in sort of a nineteenth century ideology. 303 00:23:44,642 --> 00:23:51,122 Speaker 2: To start, Lisenko did not believe in genetics, chromosomes, genes, DNA, heredity. 304 00:23:51,482 --> 00:23:55,442 Speaker 2: All of that stuff might as well be fairy dust. Meanwhile, 305 00:23:55,562 --> 00:24:00,522 Speaker 2: he believed in things like spontaneous generation, the idea that 306 00:24:00,602 --> 00:24:05,322 Speaker 2: life can just appear. He even believed that a species 307 00:24:05,442 --> 00:24:12,002 Speaker 2: could transform midlife into another species, like wheat could transform 308 00:24:12,122 --> 00:24:16,602 Speaker 2: into rye. And then there were his opinions about evolution. 309 00:24:17,682 --> 00:24:20,442 Speaker 3: He didn't understand anything about natural selection. 310 00:24:21,122 --> 00:24:26,202 Speaker 2: Liseno didn't believe in Darwin's theory. Instead, he was what 311 00:24:26,242 --> 00:24:31,362 Speaker 2: you'd call a Lamarkist, named after the French naturalist Jean 312 00:24:31,442 --> 00:24:37,322 Speaker 2: Baptiste Lamarque. Lamarkists believed that traits aren't acquired through genes, 313 00:24:37,882 --> 00:24:42,002 Speaker 2: they're acquired through actions that we take during our lifetime. 314 00:24:42,722 --> 00:24:47,522 Speaker 2: Take a giraffe. Lamarkists believed that the giraffe got its 315 00:24:47,602 --> 00:24:53,082 Speaker 2: long neck because its ancestors stretched their necks reaching for leaves. 316 00:24:53,602 --> 00:24:58,322 Speaker 2: All of that stretching lengthened the neck, and over generations, 317 00:24:58,362 --> 00:25:02,602 Speaker 2: they passed this long neck to their offspring. To be clear, 318 00:25:02,802 --> 00:25:05,442 Speaker 2: that is not how evolution works. 319 00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:10,322 Speaker 3: Oh couldn't accept the breath and I think the wonder 320 00:25:10,362 --> 00:25:14,402 Speaker 3: and beauty of revolution as we understand it today. 321 00:25:15,242 --> 00:25:18,962 Speaker 2: Lisenko didn't accept that you could help plants evolve by 322 00:25:19,042 --> 00:25:23,962 Speaker 2: crossbreeding them. Instead, he believed you could essentially train a 323 00:25:24,002 --> 00:25:29,162 Speaker 2: plant to transform into something different. To be clear, again, 324 00:25:29,842 --> 00:25:36,882 Speaker 2: that is not how evolution works. Up in Leningrad, Vavolov 325 00:25:37,002 --> 00:25:41,162 Speaker 2: knew Lisenko harbored some weird ideas, that he was a 326 00:25:41,202 --> 00:25:45,322 Speaker 2: bit sloppy with his data, but he never truly understood 327 00:25:45,442 --> 00:25:50,402 Speaker 2: the extent of Lisenko's wackiness. Instead, all he saw was 328 00:25:50,442 --> 00:25:54,802 Speaker 2: somebody who, like him, loved plants, a kid who quote 329 00:25:54,802 --> 00:25:58,682 Speaker 2: walked by faith and not by sight. After all, what 330 00:25:58,882 --> 00:26:02,362 Speaker 2: was so wrong about employing someone who thinks outside the box, 331 00:26:02,962 --> 00:26:06,602 Speaker 2: who knows? Vavolov said, maybe Lisenko would stumble on a 332 00:26:06,682 --> 00:26:11,122 Speaker 2: way quote to grow bananas in Moscow. He believed in 333 00:26:11,242 --> 00:26:18,322 Speaker 2: Losenko's potential, and Lisenko returned that goodwill by stabbing him 334 00:26:18,402 --> 00:26:26,282 Speaker 2: in the back. In the early nineteen thirties, Lisenko was 335 00:26:26,322 --> 00:26:31,082 Speaker 2: experimenting with planting schedules. What if we plant potatoes in 336 00:26:31,122 --> 00:26:35,522 Speaker 2: the winter or in the fall, how would that change productivity? 337 00:26:36,202 --> 00:26:41,562 Speaker 2: He called this big idea vernalization. The so called journalists 338 00:26:41,682 --> 00:26:43,602 Speaker 2: at the state newspaper. 339 00:26:43,362 --> 00:26:47,082 Speaker 7: Ate it up a Grandmamus. Lisenko's discoveries will lead our 340 00:26:47,122 --> 00:26:51,242 Speaker 7: agriculture onto a high road of vast possibilities in extraordinary 341 00:26:51,282 --> 00:26:55,122 Speaker 7: achievements and greatly increased the tempo of our social construction. 342 00:26:56,122 --> 00:27:01,802 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, scientists whistled a different tune. When Lisenko presented his 343 00:27:01,962 --> 00:27:08,602 Speaker 2: findings at a science conference, most colleagues ignored his work. Vavolov, meanwhile, 344 00:27:08,642 --> 00:27:13,082 Speaker 2: acted like a good mentor. He called Lisenko's work remarkable 345 00:27:13,242 --> 00:27:16,642 Speaker 2: and encouraged the young scientist again to keep at it. 346 00:27:17,322 --> 00:27:20,482 Speaker 2: But each time he sent a scientist down to check 347 00:27:20,602 --> 00:27:25,122 Speaker 2: on Lisenko's methods, the reports that returned were brutal. 348 00:27:26,042 --> 00:27:29,922 Speaker 8: Lisenko is an experimenter who was fearless and undoubtedly talented, 349 00:27:29,962 --> 00:27:33,762 Speaker 8: but he was also an uneducated and extremely egotistical person, 350 00:27:33,962 --> 00:27:37,602 Speaker 8: deeming himself to be a new messiah of biological. 351 00:27:37,042 --> 00:27:44,442 Speaker 2: Science, the new Messiah of biological science. By now, Lisenko 352 00:27:44,522 --> 00:27:48,362 Speaker 2: had become a darling of the Communist press, and it 353 00:27:48,442 --> 00:27:51,562 Speaker 2: was getting to his head. In his mind, he was 354 00:27:51,722 --> 00:27:54,842 Speaker 2: just a poor kid coming up with great ideas that 355 00:27:54,882 --> 00:27:58,962 Speaker 2: the elites in Leningrad just didn't appreciate, and he was 356 00:27:59,002 --> 00:28:03,042 Speaker 2: getting sick of the fact that they weren't validating his efforts. 357 00:28:03,722 --> 00:28:07,722 Speaker 2: So he went out and found somebody who would. In 358 00:28:07,802 --> 00:28:14,362 Speaker 2: the early nineteen thirties, Lisenko Medigui named Isaac Present, Present 359 00:28:14,762 --> 00:28:19,922 Speaker 2: was not a scientist. He was a political philosopher and professor, 360 00:28:20,442 --> 00:28:24,602 Speaker 2: a guy with a deep interest in biology, and by 361 00:28:24,842 --> 00:28:30,002 Speaker 2: deep interest, I mean he believed that communism and biology 362 00:28:30,122 --> 00:28:35,442 Speaker 2: were incompatible. Take genetics here was an idea that basically said, 363 00:28:35,522 --> 00:28:40,722 Speaker 2: your bloodline determines your fate. It sounded fascist, a scientific 364 00:28:40,842 --> 00:28:47,002 Speaker 2: way to justify racism. To Present, genetics was metaphysical bs 365 00:28:47,482 --> 00:28:51,162 Speaker 2: it had no real evidence behind it, he said. He 366 00:28:51,202 --> 00:28:55,962 Speaker 2: and Lisenko also took issue with natural selection, instead, arguing 367 00:28:56,082 --> 00:29:00,202 Speaker 2: that plants, at least plants within the same species, were 368 00:29:00,282 --> 00:29:04,042 Speaker 2: like good communists and didn't compete with other members of 369 00:29:04,082 --> 00:29:09,442 Speaker 2: their species. Now, anybody who tends a garden knows that 370 00:29:09,722 --> 00:29:15,562 Speaker 2: beloney plants compete for sunlight, soil, water, basically everything else. 371 00:29:16,202 --> 00:29:19,882 Speaker 2: But for Present, a guy who taught classes with titles 372 00:29:20,002 --> 00:29:24,082 Speaker 2: like class Struggle on the natural science front, that sort 373 00:29:24,122 --> 00:29:27,722 Speaker 2: of knowledge was the old way of doing science. It 374 00:29:27,802 --> 00:29:32,282 Speaker 2: was time to embrace a new communist friendly science. 375 00:29:33,322 --> 00:29:33,682 Speaker 3: Now. 376 00:29:34,082 --> 00:29:38,362 Speaker 2: By the early nineteen thirty's Present took a shine to 377 00:29:38,442 --> 00:29:42,402 Speaker 2: the young Lisenko. Here was a kid whose ideas were 378 00:29:42,442 --> 00:29:47,522 Speaker 2: being spurned by his bourgeois bosses. Lisenko in turn looked 379 00:29:47,562 --> 00:29:51,962 Speaker 2: up to Present. Finally, somebody in the upper ranks of 380 00:29:52,002 --> 00:29:57,362 Speaker 2: academia was taking him seriously. They began to meet and 381 00:29:57,642 --> 00:30:02,482 Speaker 2: chat about science. After a few meetings, Present decided to 382 00:30:02,562 --> 00:30:08,842 Speaker 2: become Lisenko's biggest cheerleader, his publicist, his promoter, his spin doctor. 383 00:30:09,522 --> 00:30:14,802 Speaker 2: Together they would concoct a quote new biology that reflected 384 00:30:14,882 --> 00:30:21,842 Speaker 2: a communist worldview. Take that idea about natural cooperation. Lisenko 385 00:30:21,882 --> 00:30:26,482 Speaker 2: would go on to suggest that since plants, like good communists, 386 00:30:26,962 --> 00:30:30,762 Speaker 2: don't compete, then a farmer could plant seeds as close 387 00:30:30,842 --> 00:30:35,442 Speaker 2: together as possible to achieve a higher yield. This is 388 00:30:35,482 --> 00:30:40,602 Speaker 2: a catastrophically bad idea, but Lisenko didn't bounce his idea 389 00:30:40,722 --> 00:30:46,282 Speaker 2: off other scientists. He bounced it off Present. Meanwhile, he 390 00:30:46,362 --> 00:30:49,922 Speaker 2: bumped Lisenko's ideas up to his friends in the Kremlin, 391 00:30:50,322 --> 00:30:54,722 Speaker 2: where he lauded the young scientist as an unsung genius 392 00:30:54,722 --> 00:30:59,002 Speaker 2: whose ideas were being ignored, which was true in a way, 393 00:30:59,602 --> 00:31:05,282 Speaker 2: scientists like Vavolov were ignoring him. Lisenko kept pushing to 394 00:31:05,402 --> 00:31:09,402 Speaker 2: bring his big idea of vernalization to the masses, but 395 00:31:09,562 --> 00:31:13,442 Speaker 2: Vavolov kept shooting him down, telling him that the idea 396 00:31:13,722 --> 00:31:18,882 Speaker 2: was best for slow and controlled experimentation, not something that 397 00:31:18,922 --> 00:31:24,242 Speaker 2: should be forced on every farm in the USSR. Lisenko 398 00:31:24,522 --> 00:31:29,522 Speaker 2: didn't like getting rejected. Vavolov wasn't a real farmer. He 399 00:31:29,722 --> 00:31:32,882 Speaker 2: was a phony who spent most of his work here 400 00:31:33,322 --> 00:31:35,682 Speaker 2: traveling the world hunting for seeds. 401 00:31:36,322 --> 00:31:40,562 Speaker 3: He thought that Babolov was an elitist that was spending 402 00:31:40,602 --> 00:31:44,282 Speaker 3: a lot of money going around other countries, almost on 403 00:31:44,402 --> 00:31:46,762 Speaker 3: a scientific joy ride. 404 00:31:46,842 --> 00:31:50,602 Speaker 2: By the mid nineteen thirties, some people high up in 405 00:31:50,682 --> 00:31:54,962 Speaker 2: government were beginning to feel the same way. After Stalin 406 00:31:55,322 --> 00:32:00,762 Speaker 2: liquidated the Kulux and sent the USSR spiraling into famine, 407 00:32:01,242 --> 00:32:05,802 Speaker 2: the government was anxious to recover, and Vavolov, they believed, 408 00:32:06,282 --> 00:32:11,482 Speaker 2: was moving too slow. The Kremlin demanded new varieties of 409 00:32:11,562 --> 00:32:16,642 Speaker 2: grain to be ready in three years. Vavolov calmly told 410 00:32:16,762 --> 00:32:21,322 Speaker 2: his superiors that that was not how science works. It 411 00:32:21,362 --> 00:32:25,442 Speaker 2: would take at least ten The government did not like 412 00:32:25,522 --> 00:32:31,522 Speaker 2: hearing that, and Lisenko saw that as his chance. Lisenko 413 00:32:31,682 --> 00:32:35,242 Speaker 2: argued that he alone knew how to save the Soviet 414 00:32:35,362 --> 00:32:39,562 Speaker 2: Union from starvation, but elites like Vavolov were holding him 415 00:32:39,922 --> 00:32:41,442 Speaker 2: and the country back. 416 00:32:42,322 --> 00:32:45,802 Speaker 3: Lyshenko laim Babilov and said that he could come up 417 00:32:45,842 --> 00:32:50,122 Speaker 3: with a more cost effective solution to avoiding famines. 418 00:32:51,002 --> 00:32:56,282 Speaker 2: Lisenko became more and more aggressive. In nineteen thirty five, 419 00:32:56,322 --> 00:33:00,242 Speaker 2: he made another speech comparing his superiors to the kulaks. 420 00:33:00,802 --> 00:33:05,922 Speaker 2: His bosses, he said were obstructing progress. Joseph Stalin was 421 00:33:05,962 --> 00:33:09,162 Speaker 2: in the audience when Lisenko made his speech. He didn't 422 00:33:09,202 --> 00:33:13,082 Speaker 2: know anything about biology, but he knew good rhetoric. When 423 00:33:13,082 --> 00:33:16,082 Speaker 2: he heard it, he stood up and began. 424 00:33:15,882 --> 00:33:18,642 Speaker 4: To clap Bravo, comrad Lisenko. 425 00:33:19,602 --> 00:33:24,242 Speaker 2: The next year, the Commissariat of Agriculture ordered approximately five 426 00:33:24,402 --> 00:33:30,482 Speaker 2: hundred farms to put Lisenko's farming techniques to the test. 427 00:33:32,202 --> 00:33:36,682 Speaker 2: After the government ordered farmers to try out Lisenko's planting methods, 428 00:33:37,002 --> 00:33:41,722 Speaker 2: the scientist mailed hundreds of questionnaires to track the experiment's progress. 429 00:33:42,282 --> 00:33:45,922 Speaker 2: When the envelopes came back, Lisenko threw most of the 430 00:33:45,962 --> 00:33:50,202 Speaker 2: results out. He kept only ten percent of them, the 431 00:33:50,242 --> 00:33:54,562 Speaker 2: ones that made his idea look correct. His idea was 432 00:33:54,642 --> 00:33:58,962 Speaker 2: a complete failure, but because he cherry picked the data 433 00:33:59,442 --> 00:34:03,162 Speaker 2: and tossed anything that made him look wrong. All of 434 00:34:03,202 --> 00:34:06,562 Speaker 2: the news reports made him out to be a boy genius. 435 00:34:07,322 --> 00:34:10,802 Speaker 2: When reality on the ground became too hard for even 436 00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:16,202 Speaker 2: the state sponsored newspapers to deny, one reporter twisted it 437 00:34:16,242 --> 00:34:20,362 Speaker 2: this way, summer plantings are very good, but because of 438 00:34:20,482 --> 00:34:24,482 Speaker 2: poor cultivation of the land, we obtained a low harvest. 439 00:34:25,122 --> 00:34:28,522 Speaker 2: In other words, it was the farmer's fault. In the 440 00:34:28,602 --> 00:34:31,602 Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, there was a word for people like this, 441 00:34:32,162 --> 00:34:38,242 Speaker 2: people who obstructed the communist revolution, wreckers, And as Lisenko 442 00:34:38,362 --> 00:34:43,122 Speaker 2: saw it, the farmers were wreckers, and so were scientists 443 00:34:43,242 --> 00:34:47,362 Speaker 2: like Vavolov, who were demanding that he published transparent data. 444 00:34:48,282 --> 00:34:53,202 Speaker 2: Even with these silent failures, all the press, the government support. 445 00:34:53,242 --> 00:34:57,922 Speaker 2: The momentum was still on Lisenko's side, and as his 446 00:34:58,042 --> 00:35:03,602 Speaker 2: star was rising, Vavolov's was falling. Vavlov was barred from 447 00:35:03,642 --> 00:35:09,362 Speaker 2: traveling internationally and banned from receiving foreign science journals. Meanwhile, 448 00:35:09,442 --> 00:35:13,962 Speaker 2: people like Present were writing articles lambasting Vavolov for not 449 00:35:14,082 --> 00:35:18,962 Speaker 2: finding fast solutions to the famine. Present compared Vavolov's belief 450 00:35:19,002 --> 00:35:23,962 Speaker 2: in genetics to religious devotion. Vavolov responded by writing in 451 00:35:24,002 --> 00:35:24,962 Speaker 2: a journal. 452 00:35:25,682 --> 00:35:30,802 Speaker 6: To those who propose elimination of modern genetics, v say, 453 00:35:31,362 --> 00:35:37,602 Speaker 6: first offer a substitute of equivalent value. Let chromosomal theory 454 00:35:38,002 --> 00:35:42,682 Speaker 6: be replaced by better theory, not a theory that sets 455 00:35:42,762 --> 00:35:44,602 Speaker 6: us back seventy years. 456 00:35:45,682 --> 00:35:51,642 Speaker 2: Lisenko replied in the same issue, calling Vavalov's beloved genetics. 457 00:35:51,322 --> 00:35:57,082 Speaker 9: A reactionary, idealistic absorb falsification of science. 458 00:35:57,602 --> 00:36:00,962 Speaker 6: Genetics is undisguised metaphysics. 459 00:36:02,202 --> 00:36:06,122 Speaker 2: Up in Leningrad, Vavolov tried to tune out all of 460 00:36:06,162 --> 00:36:11,482 Speaker 2: this rubbish. He continued cataloging his seeds, expanding the holdings 461 00:36:11,522 --> 00:36:15,722 Speaker 2: of his vast plant library, but it was getting harder 462 00:36:15,762 --> 00:36:20,402 Speaker 2: to stay the course. Wavlov was giving lectures as usual, 463 00:36:21,362 --> 00:36:25,722 Speaker 2: but now he was getting booed off the stage. Lisenko 464 00:36:25,922 --> 00:36:27,642 Speaker 2: was getting more fiery too. 465 00:36:28,402 --> 00:36:31,402 Speaker 6: Comraatesvzre and easier. 466 00:36:32,002 --> 00:36:38,242 Speaker 9: Really no class stluggle on the vernylization front. Instead of 467 00:36:38,362 --> 00:36:45,842 Speaker 9: helping the collective farmers, scientists like Vardilov sabotage sinks. A 468 00:36:45,962 --> 00:36:50,402 Speaker 9: class enemy is always enemy, even if it is scientist. 469 00:36:52,922 --> 00:36:56,962 Speaker 2: Vavolov usually kept his head down, but he couldn't help 470 00:36:57,082 --> 00:37:01,242 Speaker 2: but defend the sanctity of science. He knew his old 471 00:37:01,282 --> 00:37:06,002 Speaker 2: protege was cooking the books. Lisenka was failing upward, and 472 00:37:06,082 --> 00:37:12,082 Speaker 2: it was plunge the Soviet Union closer and closer to famine. 473 00:37:12,322 --> 00:37:16,682 Speaker 6: Our magicians do not take into accounts the years of 474 00:37:16,882 --> 00:37:22,002 Speaker 6: long experience of warm science. They do not want to 475 00:37:22,362 --> 00:37:28,122 Speaker 6: here opinion of other researchers. They want to live in 476 00:37:28,282 --> 00:37:31,082 Speaker 6: their birthta suits. 477 00:37:31,122 --> 00:37:33,722 Speaker 2: In the old days, criticizing the work of a fellow 478 00:37:33,762 --> 00:37:37,322 Speaker 2: scientist was just part of the discourse. It's what made 479 00:37:37,402 --> 00:37:43,642 Speaker 2: science well science. But these were new times. Scientific criticism 480 00:37:44,002 --> 00:37:53,162 Speaker 2: wasn't just criticism anymore. It was something downright unpatriotic. In 481 00:37:53,202 --> 00:37:57,162 Speaker 2: the late nineteen thirties, Stalin issued in order to quote 482 00:37:57,602 --> 00:38:06,722 Speaker 2: fight the high priests of science. It started when the 483 00:38:06,722 --> 00:38:11,962 Speaker 2: secret police arrested two leaders of the USSR's top farm school. 484 00:38:12,682 --> 00:38:16,362 Speaker 2: The school's former president, Alexander Murlov, would be charged with 485 00:38:16,522 --> 00:38:24,922 Speaker 2: sabotage and shot dead. The school's current president, Georgie Meister, 486 00:38:25,362 --> 00:38:29,122 Speaker 2: would be arrested too. The person to take his job 487 00:38:29,802 --> 00:38:34,962 Speaker 2: would be Trophen Lisenko. It's unclear exactly what Vavlov was 488 00:38:35,002 --> 00:38:40,642 Speaker 2: thinking when his colleagues began disappearing, but he clearly assumed 489 00:38:40,762 --> 00:38:44,882 Speaker 2: that he was next. But over the next two years, 490 00:38:45,402 --> 00:38:50,402 Speaker 2: his number never came up. Instead, Vavolov watched as dozens 491 00:38:50,442 --> 00:38:54,442 Speaker 2: of the country's leading geneticists, all of them his friends, 492 00:38:54,962 --> 00:38:59,602 Speaker 2: were declared enemies of the people and rounded up, never 493 00:38:59,722 --> 00:39:04,362 Speaker 2: to be seen again. All the while, Lisenko began taking 494 00:39:04,562 --> 00:39:09,282 Speaker 2: jobs that used to be Vavolov's. The Kremlin installed Lisenko 495 00:39:09,722 --> 00:39:15,122 Speaker 2: as new director at the Institute of Genetics. Vavolov was 496 00:39:15,242 --> 00:39:20,762 Speaker 2: baffled the guy running the Institute of Genetics didn't even 497 00:39:20,922 --> 00:39:25,242 Speaker 2: believe in genetics. By nineteen thirty nine, he was at 498 00:39:25,362 --> 00:39:26,122 Speaker 2: wits end. 499 00:39:26,842 --> 00:39:32,962 Speaker 9: We shall go to Zipire, we shall burn, but we 500 00:39:33,202 --> 00:39:36,602 Speaker 9: shall not retreat from our convictions. 501 00:39:37,762 --> 00:39:41,562 Speaker 2: The people in high posts were listening. In fact, they 502 00:39:41,562 --> 00:39:46,762 Speaker 2: were slowly building a case against Vavolov. The State Security 503 00:39:46,842 --> 00:39:53,122 Speaker 2: Service concocted a conspiracy claiming that the USSR's agricultural scientists 504 00:39:53,522 --> 00:39:59,762 Speaker 2: had deliberately sabotaged Stalin' push for collectivisation. In the report, 505 00:40:00,282 --> 00:40:04,402 Speaker 2: Vavolov was one of the scientists named. It said that 506 00:40:04,482 --> 00:40:09,882 Speaker 2: he and the Institute oft had provided quote grist to 507 00:40:09,962 --> 00:40:15,002 Speaker 2: the mills of anti scientific theories. Lisenko was happy to 508 00:40:15,202 --> 00:40:16,642 Speaker 2: jump onto that narrative. 509 00:40:17,682 --> 00:40:23,922 Speaker 3: He blamed Vavolov for famines and other disruptions of peasant 510 00:40:24,002 --> 00:40:32,322 Speaker 3: agriculture that were really caused by the Collectivizationlysenko manipulated Stalin 511 00:40:32,482 --> 00:40:36,762 Speaker 3: to think that Vabolov's whole point of view was a 512 00:40:36,802 --> 00:40:39,602 Speaker 3: capitalistic elitist endeavor. 513 00:40:40,522 --> 00:40:43,482 Speaker 2: The secret police had a lot of phony evidence to 514 00:40:43,642 --> 00:40:48,042 Speaker 2: suspect Vavolov of wrongdoing. He received his higher education in 515 00:40:48,082 --> 00:40:52,202 Speaker 2: the West, and he was chummy with scientists from capitalist 516 00:40:52,322 --> 00:40:53,202 Speaker 2: parts of the world. 517 00:40:53,602 --> 00:40:56,642 Speaker 3: He was open to dialogue between the Western world and 518 00:40:56,722 --> 00:41:01,322 Speaker 3: Eastern world, sharing feedsen knowledge with other scientists. 519 00:41:01,642 --> 00:41:06,202 Speaker 2: Wavolov believed in sharing knowledge to push science forward, but 520 00:41:06,322 --> 00:41:09,082 Speaker 2: Lisenko was suspicious of his motives. 521 00:41:10,042 --> 00:41:16,722 Speaker 3: Lysenko was xenophobic and suggested to Stalin that Davilov was 522 00:41:16,842 --> 00:41:20,442 Speaker 3: both a spy for other country and was sharing secrets 523 00:41:21,162 --> 00:41:22,762 Speaker 3: with people in other countries. 524 00:41:23,522 --> 00:41:27,802 Speaker 2: In nineteen forty, Vavolov was traveling Ukraine doing his usual 525 00:41:28,322 --> 00:41:33,442 Speaker 2: chatting with farmers, examining crops. He visited a research institute 526 00:41:33,482 --> 00:41:38,362 Speaker 2: dedicated to propagating sugar beets. One day, after exploring the 527 00:41:38,522 --> 00:41:43,282 Speaker 2: grassy valleys of the Carpathian Mountains, Vavolov returned to his 528 00:41:43,402 --> 00:41:48,602 Speaker 2: hostel near turnipsy and was greeted by four Soviet agents. 529 00:41:49,042 --> 00:41:54,162 Speaker 2: The men said he was needed in Moscow. Vavolov knew 530 00:41:54,242 --> 00:42:10,082 Speaker 2: what they really meant. Vavolov's file contained reports from spies 531 00:42:10,162 --> 00:42:14,082 Speaker 2: and moles who had been tailing him for almost a decade. 532 00:42:14,682 --> 00:42:18,962 Speaker 2: Included in the file was a memo struggle waged by 533 00:42:19,082 --> 00:42:26,442 Speaker 2: reactionary scientists against academician Lisenko. The charges against Vavolov were broad. 534 00:42:26,722 --> 00:42:32,402 Speaker 2: He was accused of political betrayal, sabotage, even espionage. Secret 535 00:42:32,402 --> 00:42:37,002 Speaker 2: police turned his lab upside down, his apartment was searched, 536 00:42:37,482 --> 00:42:42,562 Speaker 2: and at Lubyanka Prison he was interrogated. Thanks to archived 537 00:42:42,722 --> 00:42:47,482 Speaker 2: transcripts of his interrogations and Peter Pringle's book, we know 538 00:42:47,642 --> 00:42:49,122 Speaker 2: how the talks started. 539 00:42:50,322 --> 00:42:53,922 Speaker 1: You are arrested as an active participant of anti Soviet 540 00:42:53,922 --> 00:42:59,282 Speaker 1: wrecage organization and a spy for foreign intelligence services. Do 541 00:42:59,362 --> 00:43:00,642 Speaker 1: you admit your guilt? 542 00:43:01,642 --> 00:43:06,282 Speaker 6: No, I do not admit my guild. I never was 543 00:43:06,482 --> 00:43:13,122 Speaker 6: a spy or participant of anti Soviet organization. I always 544 00:43:13,402 --> 00:43:18,882 Speaker 6: voted honestly for the benefit of Soviet step You are alive. 545 00:43:19,482 --> 00:43:22,402 Speaker 1: The investigation is aware that during a long period of 546 00:43:22,442 --> 00:43:26,042 Speaker 1: time you headed the anti Soviet wreckage organization in the 547 00:43:26,082 --> 00:43:29,242 Speaker 1: field of agriculture, and you are a spy for a 548 00:43:29,402 --> 00:43:34,442 Speaker 1: foreign intelligence services. With the man truthful information. 549 00:43:35,042 --> 00:43:41,562 Speaker 6: I ctagorically declare that I was not involved into espionage 550 00:43:42,082 --> 00:43:45,162 Speaker 6: or any anti Soviet activity. 551 00:43:46,362 --> 00:43:50,602 Speaker 2: Over the next two weeks, Vavalov was interrogated an average 552 00:43:50,642 --> 00:43:54,882 Speaker 2: of ten hours a day. The questionings were always in 553 00:43:54,922 --> 00:43:57,842 Speaker 2: the middle of the night, There was never a break, 554 00:43:58,162 --> 00:44:02,482 Speaker 2: and Vavolov was never allowed to set Looking back, it's 555 00:44:02,562 --> 00:44:07,322 Speaker 2: clear he was being tortured into giving a false confession, because, 556 00:44:07,482 --> 00:44:13,922 Speaker 2: almost ten hours into his twenty third interrogation, Vavalov broke. 557 00:44:14,322 --> 00:44:20,162 Speaker 6: I am guilty of being member of a righteous organization 558 00:44:20,802 --> 00:44:25,922 Speaker 6: existing in USSR Commissariat of Agri Kurtu. 559 00:44:27,002 --> 00:44:30,242 Speaker 2: In a letter, Vavlov's brother despaired. 560 00:44:30,242 --> 00:44:34,322 Speaker 10: His big, useful life is being ruined, his end, the 561 00:44:34,442 --> 00:44:38,202 Speaker 10: lives of his close ones for that this is a 562 00:44:38,322 --> 00:44:42,922 Speaker 10: cruel mistake and an injustice, the end of scientific work, 563 00:44:43,322 --> 00:44:47,962 Speaker 10: zeeslanda ruining, the lives of family members, the threat of 564 00:44:48,122 --> 00:44:48,562 Speaker 10: it all. 565 00:44:52,482 --> 00:44:56,802 Speaker 2: As Wavolov languished in jail, Lisenko assumed the leadership of 566 00:44:56,962 --> 00:45:02,122 Speaker 2: all of the Soviet Union's top agricultural departments, installing his 567 00:45:02,202 --> 00:45:07,002 Speaker 2: pseudo scientific followers in important posts. More than three one 568 00:45:07,082 --> 00:45:13,562 Speaker 2: thousand mainstream biologists would be dismissed or imprisoned. Numerous scientists 569 00:45:13,682 --> 00:45:21,442 Speaker 2: were relieved from their jobs with a bullet to the head. Meanwhile, 570 00:45:21,602 --> 00:45:26,922 Speaker 2: Lisenko's farming policies were failing, but Lisenko kept cooking the 571 00:45:26,962 --> 00:45:32,082 Speaker 2: books and the press kept blindly singing his praises. He'd 572 00:45:32,122 --> 00:45:37,402 Speaker 2: earned full support of the Communist Party's Central Committee, and 573 00:45:37,562 --> 00:45:42,002 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty eight he'd give a speech declaring Mendelayan 574 00:45:42,082 --> 00:45:48,442 Speaker 2: genetics a pseudoscience. Teaching genetics and cell biology in schools 575 00:45:48,602 --> 00:45:54,922 Speaker 2: was soon banned. Textbooks were purged, school teachers were re educated. 576 00:45:55,602 --> 00:46:00,682 Speaker 2: When Lisenko and his acolytes traveled to international biology conferences, 577 00:46:01,242 --> 00:46:06,442 Speaker 2: scientists from other countries were astounded by how backward the 578 00:46:06,562 --> 00:46:08,202 Speaker 2: USA R had become. 579 00:46:09,122 --> 00:46:12,922 Speaker 5: The faithful followers of Lysenko prepared their scientific results just 580 00:46:12,962 --> 00:46:19,242 Speaker 5: to support its fantastic theories. Listeners acquainted with biology were horrified. 581 00:46:19,842 --> 00:46:23,722 Speaker 5: It was simply inconceivable that such gibberish could be presented 582 00:46:23,762 --> 00:46:26,082 Speaker 5: in the guise of scientific discoveries. 583 00:46:27,002 --> 00:46:32,082 Speaker 2: Indeed, Lisenko became more unhinged with time. Many of his 584 00:46:32,242 --> 00:46:38,202 Speaker 2: followers declared that viruses don't exist around the world. Scientists 585 00:46:38,282 --> 00:46:43,082 Speaker 2: were baffled. The USSR used to be leading the plant race. 586 00:46:43,642 --> 00:46:48,602 Speaker 2: Now it was totally backward, and all were wondering what 587 00:46:48,882 --> 00:46:56,482 Speaker 2: in the world happened to Nikolai Vavolov. After his arrest, 588 00:46:56,642 --> 00:47:02,562 Speaker 2: Vavlov would be interrogated almost four hundred times, totaling seventeen 589 00:47:02,802 --> 00:47:08,322 Speaker 2: hundred hours. The interrogations were so exhausting that Vavlov often 590 00:47:08,402 --> 00:47:12,882 Speaker 2: returned to his bunk, crawling on all fours. But through 591 00:47:12,922 --> 00:47:16,362 Speaker 2: it all he refused to deny the legitimacy of his 592 00:47:16,482 --> 00:47:21,682 Speaker 2: scientific work. He also didn't forget who helped send him there. 593 00:47:22,282 --> 00:47:27,402 Speaker 2: According to his cellmate, a police informant, Vavlov cursed Lisenko 594 00:47:27,602 --> 00:47:32,402 Speaker 2: as a false scientist. Lisenko's henchmen would say the same 595 00:47:32,482 --> 00:47:38,482 Speaker 2: of Vavlov. After his interrogations, a panel of scientists reviewed 596 00:47:38,602 --> 00:47:44,562 Speaker 2: the scientific merit of Vavlov's testimony. Their report confirmed that 597 00:47:44,762 --> 00:47:50,562 Speaker 2: genetics was metaphysical and that Vavlov was a wrecker. All 598 00:47:50,642 --> 00:47:54,562 Speaker 2: of the scientists on the panel, of course, were approved 599 00:47:55,202 --> 00:47:59,082 Speaker 2: by Lisenko. When a judge read the report, he made 600 00:47:59,202 --> 00:48:00,482 Speaker 2: his sentence. 601 00:48:00,882 --> 00:48:04,482 Speaker 1: Nikolay Vavlov must suffer the supreme penalty to be shot 602 00:48:04,922 --> 00:48:07,762 Speaker 1: and for all his personal property confiscated. 603 00:48:09,602 --> 00:48:13,962 Speaker 2: Ponn sentencing, Vavalov begged for his life. He made an 604 00:48:14,002 --> 00:48:19,562 Speaker 2: appeal for a reduced sentence, which miraculously was approved. But 605 00:48:19,882 --> 00:48:23,842 Speaker 2: just as hope appeared on the horizon, the Nazis invaded 606 00:48:23,962 --> 00:48:28,362 Speaker 2: the Soviet Union. World War two hit the Motherland, and 607 00:48:28,482 --> 00:48:32,562 Speaker 2: Vavolov was evacuated to a new prison, and he follow 608 00:48:32,642 --> 00:48:36,122 Speaker 2: through with his appeal died with the advance of World 609 00:48:36,242 --> 00:48:41,802 Speaker 2: War In the city of Saratov, Vavlov lived in a 610 00:48:41,962 --> 00:48:46,682 Speaker 2: dank jail basement holding other intellectuals. His cellmates were an 611 00:48:46,682 --> 00:48:51,842 Speaker 2: engineer and a literary critic. They had no clothes. They 612 00:48:51,882 --> 00:48:57,162 Speaker 2: wore canvas sacks and shared a single bed. They barely ate. 613 00:48:58,082 --> 00:49:02,722 Speaker 2: Vavlov grew skinny and weak, but in the darkness he 614 00:49:02,842 --> 00:49:08,722 Speaker 2: found light. His cellmates were thinkers. They they were intellectually curious, 615 00:49:09,322 --> 00:49:12,522 Speaker 2: and so he passed the time in his cage by 616 00:49:12,642 --> 00:49:17,642 Speaker 2: telling stories of his adventures abroad, giving lectures on genetics 617 00:49:17,642 --> 00:49:23,482 Speaker 2: and biology. Three years into his sentence January nineteen forty three, 618 00:49:24,082 --> 00:49:29,442 Speaker 2: Vavolov would become pale and emaciated. Payne shot through his 619 00:49:29,642 --> 00:49:34,522 Speaker 2: chest his breathing was shallow. He had become one of 620 00:49:34,562 --> 00:49:38,722 Speaker 2: those walking skeletons he had wished to save as a child. 621 00:49:39,682 --> 00:49:44,242 Speaker 2: When he visited the prison hospital, doctors diagnosed him with 622 00:49:44,522 --> 00:49:50,882 Speaker 2: dystrophy from prolonged malnutrition. Two days later he died. The 623 00:49:50,962 --> 00:49:54,442 Speaker 2: man who had dedicated his life to feeding the world 624 00:49:55,042 --> 00:50:06,322 Speaker 2: had died of starvation. Trofumlsenko would lead the USSR's Agricultural 625 00:50:06,362 --> 00:50:10,762 Speaker 2: School another two decades, but by nineteen sixty five it 626 00:50:10,842 --> 00:50:17,042 Speaker 2: became obvious to everyone that Vavolov was right. Lisenko's ideas 627 00:50:17,122 --> 00:50:21,602 Speaker 2: were trash. It was a long time coming. In nineteen 628 00:50:21,682 --> 00:50:26,362 Speaker 2: forty nine and nineteen fifty, nearly all of Lisenko's summer 629 00:50:26,402 --> 00:50:32,442 Speaker 2: plantings were destroyed by drought and disease. His belief that seeds, 630 00:50:32,602 --> 00:50:37,042 Speaker 2: like good communists, could be planted close together had proven 631 00:50:37,362 --> 00:50:44,482 Speaker 2: especially disastrous. In Communist China, Mao Zidong embraced Lisenkoism. The 632 00:50:44,522 --> 00:50:49,722 Speaker 2: result the Great Chinese Famine, considered one of the worst 633 00:50:49,962 --> 00:50:54,402 Speaker 2: man made disasters in history. Lisenko's methods led to the 634 00:50:54,482 --> 00:51:00,122 Speaker 2: deaths of at least fifteen million people in China. According 635 00:51:00,122 --> 00:51:04,242 Speaker 2: to Sam Keene, writer at The Atlantic Trophen Losenko probably 636 00:51:04,322 --> 00:51:10,282 Speaker 2: killed more human beings than any individual scientist in history. 637 00:51:10,362 --> 00:51:14,082 Speaker 2: After Lisenka was removed from his position, the study of 638 00:51:14,202 --> 00:51:20,042 Speaker 2: genetics became acceptable again. Eighty thousand biology teachers had to 639 00:51:20,082 --> 00:51:25,962 Speaker 2: be retrained. Officials decided to rename the All Union Institute 640 00:51:26,042 --> 00:51:30,442 Speaker 2: of Plant Industry. Coming up with a new name was easy. 641 00:51:31,202 --> 00:51:37,002 Speaker 2: They would call it the Vavolov Institute. By the late 642 00:51:37,242 --> 00:51:42,762 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, Nikolai Vavolov's reputation had been resurrected, and for 643 00:51:42,962 --> 00:51:47,762 Speaker 2: good cause, because if you eat vegetables, or bread or 644 00:51:47,842 --> 00:51:51,602 Speaker 2: meat from animals that eat vegetables, chances are high that 645 00:51:51,682 --> 00:51:57,482 Speaker 2: you've consumed something descended from Nikolai Vavolov's massive seed collection. 646 00:51:58,242 --> 00:52:01,922 Speaker 2: This was especially true for anybody living in the former 647 00:52:02,042 --> 00:52:02,962 Speaker 2: Soviet Union. 648 00:52:04,202 --> 00:52:10,122 Speaker 3: History bears out that what Russia fed for the sixty 649 00:52:10,202 --> 00:52:15,962 Speaker 3: years after Babylov's death was in fact the plants, the 650 00:52:16,042 --> 00:52:20,202 Speaker 3: crop plants and seeds that he brought in. 651 00:52:20,202 --> 00:52:24,442 Speaker 2: In the nineteen thirties, Vavolov's seed collection had totaled at 652 00:52:24,482 --> 00:52:28,962 Speaker 2: more than two hundred and fifty thousand samples. It was 653 00:52:29,002 --> 00:52:34,562 Speaker 2: the world's first and largest seed bank. It would inspire 654 00:52:34,722 --> 00:52:39,682 Speaker 2: scientists around the world to protect the hereditary material of 655 00:52:39,722 --> 00:52:43,722 Speaker 2: their native plants. Today, there are hundreds of seed banks 656 00:52:43,762 --> 00:52:48,362 Speaker 2: all over the planet routinely coming to our rescue. In 657 00:52:48,402 --> 00:52:52,202 Speaker 2: the early nineteen eighties, for instance, when a parasitic worm 658 00:52:52,402 --> 00:52:57,082 Speaker 2: was attacking soybean crops all over the United States, scientists 659 00:52:57,402 --> 00:53:01,922 Speaker 2: stopped the attack by crossbreeding with beans kept at the 660 00:53:02,002 --> 00:53:07,202 Speaker 2: Vavolov institutes. Vavolov knew his science could have that kind 661 00:53:07,202 --> 00:53:12,282 Speaker 2: of impact, and when compared to other scientific heretics, he 662 00:53:12,482 --> 00:53:17,562 Speaker 2: remains in a league of his own. Take Galileo, when 663 00:53:17,602 --> 00:53:21,082 Speaker 2: he was facing down the inquisition for his scientific beliefs, 664 00:53:21,122 --> 00:53:26,602 Speaker 2: he recanted his claims. He caved to the political pressure. 665 00:53:27,522 --> 00:53:33,122 Speaker 2: Vavolov never caved. Staring down the interrogator, Vavolov chose truth. 666 00:53:33,562 --> 00:53:38,242 Speaker 2: He never denied the existence of genetics. He never dismissed 667 00:53:38,282 --> 00:53:42,042 Speaker 2: his life's work. He chose to be on the right 668 00:53:42,242 --> 00:53:45,442 Speaker 2: side of science, even if it put him on the 669 00:53:45,482 --> 00:53:49,962 Speaker 2: wrong side of the protege who killed him. In the end, 670 00:53:50,402 --> 00:54:00,002 Speaker 2: Vavolov couldn't save himself, but he did save us. So 671 00:54:00,122 --> 00:54:03,282 Speaker 2: that's it's sort of a downer of an episode. But 672 00:54:03,522 --> 00:54:06,562 Speaker 2: I have to say there's a spirit of optimism that 673 00:54:06,642 --> 00:54:10,562 Speaker 2: I do think runs through Bavlov's story completely. 674 00:54:10,602 --> 00:54:12,682 Speaker 4: I mean, I can't aworry with a new hero, and like, 675 00:54:13,082 --> 00:54:14,682 Speaker 4: I never expect a story about like a pair of 676 00:54:14,722 --> 00:54:18,082 Speaker 4: battle and Soviet botanists who would rope in my man Galileo. 677 00:54:18,602 --> 00:54:20,482 Speaker 4: But like more than that, I also never expect to 678 00:54:20,482 --> 00:54:22,682 Speaker 4: walk away from the story thinking that my Man Galileo 679 00:54:22,802 --> 00:54:25,082 Speaker 4: was a punk ass, which I did. I was like, dude, 680 00:54:25,082 --> 00:54:28,002 Speaker 4: but Galileo, he's not nearly the guy that Vabilov is, 681 00:54:28,002 --> 00:54:30,882 Speaker 4: because Babilov was down to die for science and Socrates 682 00:54:31,202 --> 00:54:33,842 Speaker 4: had that same spirit, but not Galileo. He's like, no, 683 00:54:33,882 --> 00:54:35,562 Speaker 4: I'm going to cop to the charges. I want to 684 00:54:35,642 --> 00:54:38,082 Speaker 4: keep my life. Avolov's like, I'm going down for the cause, 685 00:54:38,202 --> 00:54:40,402 Speaker 4: like new hero. And also he dies with the most 686 00:54:40,482 --> 00:54:42,282 Speaker 4: brutal cosmic irony ever. 687 00:54:42,762 --> 00:54:45,722 Speaker 5: Yeah, it would make a very good movie. And so 688 00:54:45,842 --> 00:54:49,322 Speaker 5: if it were a movie, who would play Babilov? 689 00:54:49,882 --> 00:54:52,962 Speaker 2: Oh God, we need like a hero. I don't know, 690 00:54:53,202 --> 00:54:55,362 Speaker 2: I like sort of an atom driver type. But maybe 691 00:54:55,362 --> 00:54:57,322 Speaker 2: I would just cast him in anything. 692 00:54:57,602 --> 00:54:59,602 Speaker 4: Okay, I went two ways on this. I went there, 693 00:54:59,642 --> 00:55:01,282 Speaker 4: you could do it as a dark comedy, and I 694 00:55:01,322 --> 00:55:03,202 Speaker 4: know you're like dark comedy with the story we just heard. 695 00:55:03,202 --> 00:55:07,242 Speaker 4: But seriously, imagine this Nikolai Vavlov seth Rogen and for 696 00:55:07,322 --> 00:55:11,602 Speaker 4: trofim Lysenko Jeremy Allen White from The Bear Dude can 697 00:55:11,642 --> 00:55:14,482 Speaker 4: nail before right. Also, you need you need to Stalins. 698 00:55:14,482 --> 00:55:16,082 Speaker 4: You need a young Stalin and an old Solan For 699 00:55:16,122 --> 00:55:18,562 Speaker 4: young Stalin. Some will say it's stunt casting, but I 700 00:55:18,562 --> 00:55:21,122 Speaker 4: think it works perfectly because he looks like him. Zane 701 00:55:21,162 --> 00:55:24,522 Speaker 4: Malick from One Direction as young Stalin and for Old 702 00:55:24,562 --> 00:55:27,322 Speaker 4: Stalin Javier Bardem, but keeping in the spirit of Sean 703 00:55:27,362 --> 00:55:29,642 Speaker 4: Connery from in The Hunt for the October, he does 704 00:55:29,682 --> 00:55:33,082 Speaker 4: it without a Russian accent, Tavier Bardem Spanish accent, but 705 00:55:33,122 --> 00:55:34,722 Speaker 4: a thick and lush mustache. 706 00:55:34,762 --> 00:55:35,442 Speaker 5: What do you say? 707 00:55:35,642 --> 00:55:39,002 Speaker 2: I just respect how quick and how well thought out. 708 00:55:39,082 --> 00:55:42,122 Speaker 4: That answer was unbelievable, But okay, I also got an 709 00:55:42,122 --> 00:55:43,962 Speaker 4: Oscar bay one if you want that. This one's the 710 00:55:44,002 --> 00:55:49,122 Speaker 4: more serious one. Now imagine the hero Vigo Mortensen as 711 00:55:49,202 --> 00:55:51,802 Speaker 4: Nikolai Bavelov, and then you pair it with that cat 712 00:55:51,842 --> 00:55:55,522 Speaker 4: from Always Sunday in Philadelphia, Charlie Day. He does unhinged well, 713 00:55:55,642 --> 00:55:58,762 Speaker 4: so you have him as trophim Lysenko. Then for young 714 00:55:58,842 --> 00:56:02,642 Speaker 4: Stalin it's still Zane Malick from one direction. For Old Stalin, 715 00:56:02,722 --> 00:56:06,722 Speaker 4: it's Tom Hardy with an outrageous Russian accent and outrageous 716 00:56:06,722 --> 00:56:08,602 Speaker 4: by stash boom oscar bait. 717 00:56:08,722 --> 00:56:10,842 Speaker 2: I'm in I Where do I send the check? 718 00:56:10,922 --> 00:56:11,082 Speaker 3: Right? 719 00:56:11,082 --> 00:56:11,562 Speaker 7: Hollywood? 720 00:56:11,562 --> 00:56:14,722 Speaker 5: Are you listening? Yeah, let's fund this. Let's not put 721 00:56:14,762 --> 00:56:17,362 Speaker 5: this out because someone will steal this idea and we 722 00:56:17,682 --> 00:56:18,882 Speaker 5: got to get a piece of this. 723 00:56:19,162 --> 00:56:21,442 Speaker 4: Also, by the way, did you guys notice the High 724 00:56:21,522 --> 00:56:24,042 Speaker 4: Priests of Science bit that one line stuck out at me? 725 00:56:24,082 --> 00:56:25,642 Speaker 4: And I haven't told you the guys this, but I 726 00:56:25,642 --> 00:56:28,802 Speaker 4: have this hobby. I like to collect band names, perfect 727 00:56:28,802 --> 00:56:30,042 Speaker 4: band names. And now I'm going to put on the 728 00:56:30,042 --> 00:56:33,362 Speaker 4: list right below Cruise Ship Magician, the High Priests of Science. 729 00:56:34,202 --> 00:56:34,762 Speaker 5: I love it. 730 00:56:35,602 --> 00:56:36,442 Speaker 2: I would listen to them. 731 00:56:36,562 --> 00:56:41,082 Speaker 5: Very special running segment. So let me ask you guys this. 732 00:56:41,242 --> 00:56:45,242 Speaker 5: You've both hosted hundreds of episodes of your own podcasts, 733 00:56:45,362 --> 00:56:50,442 Speaker 5: Dana Noble, Blood Zarin, Ridiculous Crime and others. What's your 734 00:56:50,522 --> 00:56:55,442 Speaker 5: favorite set in Russia episodes that you two have told 735 00:56:55,482 --> 00:56:56,362 Speaker 5: anything come to mind? 736 00:56:57,282 --> 00:56:57,602 Speaker 6: Yeah? 737 00:56:57,642 --> 00:57:00,802 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I would say I have an episode on Catherine 738 00:57:00,842 --> 00:57:05,082 Speaker 2: the Great Coup against her husband. And if you have 739 00:57:05,122 --> 00:57:07,522 Speaker 2: any interest in Russian history. I would I would go 740 00:57:07,642 --> 00:57:10,402 Speaker 2: back to listen to that one. I think it's called 741 00:57:10,442 --> 00:57:13,682 Speaker 2: Catherine the Great and her husband the Mediocre. They just 742 00:57:13,722 --> 00:57:17,722 Speaker 2: had a fascinating relationship and then a real throwback back 743 00:57:17,722 --> 00:57:20,762 Speaker 2: in like like early early noble blood days. So it's 744 00:57:20,762 --> 00:57:23,442 Speaker 2: like the audio quality may not be up to snowf 745 00:57:23,442 --> 00:57:25,962 Speaker 2: but give give it a whirl. I have an episode 746 00:57:26,042 --> 00:57:29,882 Speaker 2: on the Empress Anna Ivanovna, who built an ice palace 747 00:57:30,602 --> 00:57:36,402 Speaker 2: entirely to humiliate and ideally freeze to death a political enemy. 748 00:57:38,122 --> 00:57:42,282 Speaker 5: Incredible way to do it. That's Russian style. That's Russian style. 749 00:57:43,762 --> 00:57:44,882 Speaker 5: See as far as. 750 00:57:44,962 --> 00:57:47,122 Speaker 4: I don't think we have any episodes set in Russia, though, 751 00:57:47,162 --> 00:57:49,522 Speaker 4: we did go and talk about how for a while, 752 00:57:49,562 --> 00:57:53,122 Speaker 4: the Soviet Union was selling their battleships and so Pepsi 753 00:57:53,202 --> 00:57:55,202 Speaker 4: was the sixth largest navy in the world thanks to 754 00:57:55,242 --> 00:57:58,282 Speaker 4: the Soviet Navy. They've been buying because the Soviet wanted 755 00:57:58,282 --> 00:58:01,922 Speaker 4: Pepsi cola, so then they traded their old defunct ships 756 00:58:01,962 --> 00:58:05,042 Speaker 4: to Pepsi for cola. So eventually, for a while Pepsi 757 00:58:05,162 --> 00:58:07,642 Speaker 4: had the sixth largest navy in the world. So we 758 00:58:07,682 --> 00:58:08,322 Speaker 4: didn cover that. 759 00:58:08,642 --> 00:58:12,202 Speaker 5: Well, that's good further listening. If you want to dive 760 00:58:12,242 --> 00:58:15,122 Speaker 5: into those. I'll put the links in the show description 761 00:58:15,202 --> 00:58:17,082 Speaker 5: here so they don't do too much hunting. 762 00:58:17,442 --> 00:58:22,002 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Bye. 763 00:58:22,362 --> 00:58:25,482 Speaker 5: Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people. 764 00:58:26,002 --> 00:58:30,242 Speaker 5: This episode was written by Lucas Riley. Our producer is 765 00:58:30,322 --> 00:58:35,842 Speaker 5: Josh Fisher. Editing and sound design by Chris Childs. Additional 766 00:58:35,962 --> 00:58:40,282 Speaker 5: editing by John Washington, Mixing and mastering by Beheid Fraser. 767 00:58:41,002 --> 00:58:44,962 Speaker 5: Very Special Episodes is hosted by Danish Schwartz, Zaren Burnett 768 00:58:45,402 --> 00:58:50,962 Speaker 5: and me Jason. English. Original music by Elise McCoy. Research 769 00:58:51,002 --> 00:58:55,122 Speaker 5: in fact checking by Austin Thompson and Lucas Riley. Show 770 00:58:55,162 --> 00:58:59,282 Speaker 5: logo by Lucy Kintonia. Shout out to our voiceover crew, 771 00:58:59,722 --> 00:59:03,282 Speaker 5: especially Tom antonellis a total pro who did some great 772 00:59:03,282 --> 00:59:05,682 Speaker 5: work in this episode. I hope we get to hear 773 00:59:05,722 --> 00:59:09,842 Speaker 5: him again soon. I'm your executive producer and we'll see 774 00:59:09,882 --> 00:59:13,442 Speaker 5: you back here next Wednesday. Very Special Episodes is a 775 00:59:13,482 --> 00:59:20,842 Speaker 5: production of iHeart Podcasts.