WEBVTT - Science vs. Monsters! 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:04.720 Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:16.239 works dot com. Hey guys, welcome to the podcast. This 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.120 is Alison I don't know if the science editor how 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:20.640 stuff works dot com. And this is Robert Lamb, science 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.520 writer at how stuff works dot com. And in this episode, 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:29.080 we've got monsters um. More specifically, we have bouts, battles, 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:37.000 um fights, um coral skirmishes between monsters and science. And 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:41.800 I mean actual science um as opposed to kind. Right, 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.280 this is what we're not talking about science fiction here, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.760 as awesome science fiction is. We're talking about actual um 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:55.920 published scientific studies that deal with various fictional monsters. UM. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.920 So we're gonna end include such bouts as the sad 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:05.680 Squatch versus the werewolf, UM, physicist versus ghost and vampires. Well, 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.960 that's that's what I'm That one's kind of a tag 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.840 teammate because I think it's technically like physicists and mathematicians 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.160 against ghost and vampires. And then the final bout is 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:18.399 going to be Robert Smith versus zombies. We're not talking 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.160 about the curius Robert Smith, you know, the different Robert Smith. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:22.920 Although now I'm gonna I'm gonna have a cure song. 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.240 Playing in my head the whole podcast. Well, that's a 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.360 that's a good problem to have, alright, So let's kick 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.000 it off. First, battle Sasquatch versus Werewolves. Tell me a 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:36.160 little about the Sasquatch. You're familiar with the big Foot? Yeah, yeah, 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:41.039 the reportings of sasquatch sighting in North Georgia Mountains a 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:45.960 while back, Right, Yeah, there was those guys that. Yeah, 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.920 the fixtures were pretty hilarious. Yeah, most pictures of Bigfoot 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.000 are pretty hilarious because they're pretty fake or they're just 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.160 just abysmal quality. Um. And he goes by many names 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:00.360 old Bigfoot again's Sasquatch, bigfoot, Yettie, one of my it's 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.800 the Skunk Cape if you live in Florida. Yeah, and 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.040 I noticed you wrote a couple of other ones down 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.120 here that I've not heard of, and perhaps you listeners 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:11.680 haven't heard of. Yeah, Like, how about why don't you 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.920 pronounce them? Robberts? Heard of the wind to go right, 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.000 I've not heard the window. Oh man, the window goes off. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.320 The window goes off and tied and like, um, sort 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.960 of like cannibalism myths, and I think it comes out 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.880 of various Native American traditions. Um, but it is also 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:27.960 like an X Men character and stuff. I think it 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.560 was in a Stephen King book. But anyway, then there's 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:36.880 also the yehoa, the oma, the rugaru and uh and 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:41.280 the box b o q s. So depending on who's 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.480 describing this guy, he runs any who are between seven 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:50.000 and fifteen ft tall. Um. He's extremely hairy, surprisingly hard 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.520 to capture on film, and despite having been uh uh 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.840 you know reported for centuries. Um, you know, we haven't 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:57.639 managed to catch one and put one in a zoo 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.280 or anything. And he walks on two legs, right, he 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.120 can have a little bit of a strong odor to him. Yeah, 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:04.959 there are a lot of reports of him smelling like 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.280 you don't really smelling before you see him. And uh yeah. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:13.520 So in this corner, a pretty rough and tumble character. Umquat. Yeah. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.160 In the other corner we have the werewolf. Now, what 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.760 comes to mind when you think of a werewolf? I mean, 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.760 I'm looking at you and you're you're kind of growing 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.240 a beard. So I'm imagining that beard kind of growing 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.040 and then hair sprouting on the knuckles. And but it 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.560 would work better if you didn't have blonde hair. Yeah, 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.880 you don't see very many. You see white werewolves, I guess, 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.280 but not, I mean you see them in fiction, not 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.560 around town. Do you think a little bit of chebacca 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.520 when I tend to think of where I guess, But 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.760 but that's not really quite what I'm when I'm after, 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.560 what do you think of? Well, I mean, it varies, 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.600 you have I want it kind of depends on the 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.520 budget of the film that you're watching, because werewolves can 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.400 can sometimes just be like trained wolves, like people who 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:55.680 watch True Blood right now, I've been seeing kind of 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.000 like semi trained wolves running around as the werewolves. And 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.080 then you have for the whole like Lawn Cheney junior 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.320 werewolves where it was like a dude with a bunch 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.720 of fake hair stuck on his face. Kind that's my favorite, 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.920 that's my favorite kind of werewolf. Yeah. And then sometimes 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.640 like computers allow us to do something awkward in between 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.680 that doesn't really work. Um, but yeah, they're a normal 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.919 man by day. And then what turns them into a 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.600 wolf A full moon? Right, they suffer from lacanthropy. Uh, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.520 And this was the one. The legends for this has 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.040 been around for like seemingly forever. I mean, you have 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.320 people turning into wolves as early as the epic of Gilgamesh, 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.239 you know, one of the earliest known works of literature, 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.440 and now we have been Harry Potter. That's right, Yeah, 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.520 the Harry Potter is full. When you can't throw a 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.560 stick without hitting a werewolf these days. So so what 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:41.320 do you think who's gonna win between in a battle 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.760 between a big foot, between a you know, sasquatch, a yetie, 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.000 and a werewolf. Well, I think on either ends you 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:49.920 have a lot of Harry brawn, but I'm going to 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:54.440 give it to sasquatch just for sheer muscle, muscled strength, 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.000 and uh, the werewolf, I'm thinking quickness, you know, agile, 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.440 laid on its feet kind of the um what is 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:06.280 what is that famous fighting quote, sting like a yeah, um, 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.720 fly like a butterfly, sting like a b. Yeah. Yeah, 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.000 so I'm thinking that famous fighting quote, you know, fly 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.599 like a butterfly, sting like a b yeah. Well okay, yeah, 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.120 and also yeah, but then of course the sasquatch has 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.320 kind of got this kind of peaceful, uh you know 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.120 thing going for him, like people kind of see that 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.280 the bigfoot is a as a as a pacifist in 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.440 the werewolf is a bloodthirsty killer. So, uh well, the 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.040 outcome for this bout, according to Brian Regal, assistant professor 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.200 of the history of science at Keene University in Union, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.480 New Jersey, sasquatch wins. But get this, he wins through 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:45.840 interference from Charles Darwin. Really, how does Darwin figure into this? Well? Um, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:50.120 Regal's argument here is that you know, you had in 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.040 eighteen fifty nine Darwin published The Origin Species and all that, right, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.120 and the big take home from from all of this 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:00.960 that everybody just ran nuts within the media was the 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.840 connection between man and ape, all right, and you as 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.400 we're going too in the How Charles Darwin Works article 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:12.360 which you wrote, which which I wrote, Uh, there's um, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.760 you know, but like people just really lashed into them 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.919 with all these like cruel cartoons of like, you know, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.560 how dare this man, you know, say that the noble 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.080 uh you know, refined human, this child of God is 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.440 in any way you know, related to these you know, 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:30.360 bestial creatures that wander around naked and Harry you know, so, um, 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.400 it was a pretty shock. We can't go any farther 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.720 because I just have to say it bothers me. This 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:39.000 whole you know, progression, this thought of evolution of uh 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.760 you know, leading from directly from uh an ape to 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:44.720 to man. And and of course we've written a lot 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:46.440 about this, and we know that this is not true. 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.719 They evolve along too divergent lines with some sort of 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.120 common ancestors exactly, just to clear that up. And and 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.520 here's the here's the key though, the like the last 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.480 common ancestor between man and ape not too terribly far 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.320 in the few in the past. I mean yes, like 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:04.240 a long time in the past, like five million years 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.880 or like five million years or so. But the last 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.480 common ancestor between a man and wolf. Guess when that 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:20.120 would have would have occurred? Um, all right, it was 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:21.560 a It was the hand. It was a hundred million 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.520 years ago. Now can you guess what kind of animal 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:27.920 it would have been? Um, I'm guessing Robert held me out. 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:29.600 It would have been something like an art vark. It 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.800 would have been an art Where did you pull this 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.520 out of there? There was a study a couple we 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:37.000 just back. Some some scientists have said that you have 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.400 been a hundred million years ago, like and not just 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.720 between man and wolves, between like a varying number of 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.680 a million species. But but yeah, so we're a lot 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.440 more kin to the to the apes than we are 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.960 to the wolves. So so yeah, Darwin's theory gets a 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.160 lot of traction. It's kind of like seeps into people's 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.360 minds and suddenly the idea of turning into a wolf 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.600 is it's very far removed. It's kind of it's far removed. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.280 It's a lot sillier. Yeah, it's it's it's kind of silly. 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.920 While while the idea of this connection between man and 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.280 ape is a it's a lot more a lot it's 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.000 still ridiculous, but it's a lot more plausible that a 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.000 man can turn into an ape. And also, um, it's 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.000 kind of troubling. I mean, you see horror stories from 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.640 the day, like, uh, you know, stuff from HP Lovecraft, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.520 Sir rather Conan Doyle, um Edgar Allan Poe dealing with like, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.000 you know, either people turning into apes or being murdered 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.520 by apes or mating with apes. It's the love Craft one, um, 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.439 Planet of the Apes, none of that later. But in 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.080 a way that's foun off of the same thing. You know, 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.480 there's people pondering this connection between you know, what we 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:43.920 are and what we think we are and uh, and 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.600 ore you know, evolutionary kin. So the takeaway is really, um, 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.920 you know, science playing a role actually in our fears, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.760 you know, to illuminate or to define our our fears 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.880 and the things that we don't understand. I guess would 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.040 you take in that direction? Yeah, I mean it's like 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.760 the where thing and the and the bigfoot thing to 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:04.680 a certain extent, and also like these other ideas of 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.720 like wild men in the forest that have been when 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.000 this forever like it's they're all ultimately about coming to 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.280 terms with our own bestial nature. And it's kind of 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.320 like the inner monster, you know. In fact, one fact 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.679 that I always find really amusing is that the word 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:23.520 monstrosity itself comes from the word um monstrary. Uh. And 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.760 I may be pronouncing that wrong, but it means to 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.600 show or illustrate a point. You know. You look back 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.319 in medieval text and you see, you know a lot 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.400 of thought went into monsters, like why does it have 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.559 the head of this and the head of that? Um, 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.360 there was like there was I remember seeing some illustration 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.440 of like a birdman. He was like he was like 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:41.240 I want to say, it was like it was supposed 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.280 to be like Jesus, but with a bird's head with 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.840 a really long neck. I've not seen that illustration. Yeah, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:48.640 it's there were a lot of crazy illustrations back there. 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.240 But the idea was that like, uh, the like the 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.160 like a really christ like individual, very holy individual. And 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.120 what was the bird connection. The bird connection is that, um, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.559 there's a there's a huge distance between the heart and 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.319 the mouth, so that any kind of like harsh words 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.520 that would rise up, they would have longer to travel 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.319 and you'd have more time to think about them before 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.280 you express yourself. So you know, there's a lot of 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.440 symbolism in it all. But but yeah, that's an important 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:18.080 thing to think about when when contemplating um our relationship 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.400 with any fictional monster, what does that monster represent, um, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.160 you know, to us and all of us. And then 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.600 you get anthropologists such as Ernestine mq and she's a 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.080 cultural anthropologist from Rochester, and she says that a lot 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.280 of people are really disenchanted with everyday life. Um, they 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.200 long for something that seems kind of magical. Yeah, Like 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.840 she points out that even Halloween, which I mean, I'm 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.360 still excited about, you know, it's coming up here around 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.880 the corner, but she points out it's like a day 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.640 for kids. Now, there's nothing scary about Halloween and uh, 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:51.560 and so big Foot for a lot of people is 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.520 just one thing you could you could sort of hold 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.319 on to. You know, it hasn't No one can say 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.760 you've completely you know, you can't say there are no 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.200 big Foot like a big big feet, no big foots 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.840 out there. Um, you know, you know completely. Someone could 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.000 always make the case, well, you know they're hiding here 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.840 or there and nobody's proved you know that they exist either, 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.120 Like I remember when that thing with the guys in 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.160 the Georgia Mountains with a with a cooler with a 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.400 monkey suit in it, when that first hit um, and 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.120 that the news of it to hit, I felt this 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.840 like real excitement and you know rise up in me. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:25.360 You know, they're like, oh my goodness, or is this 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.640 going to be the day that we actually find out 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.920 there's the such thing as big Foot? And then on 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:31.880 the other hand, I also felt like this fear's like 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.200 what what if it? You know, what if it turns 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:36.600 out that it does exist, that will be like this 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.240 one remaining mystery of the world that we've managed to 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.160 snuff away forever. I don't know. I think the skeptics 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.120 argument is no way. We we got nothing to to 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.720 go on here. So I mean, sasquatch or big foot 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.080 is a is a pretty interesting and fun idea to 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.000 play with. But yeah, we really literally don't have much. 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:56.880 But apparently the groups that are really into them have 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.160 been growing like wildfire. Yeah, so we're gonna of this 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.080 victory to sasquatch, Sasquatch over the werewolf by means of 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:09.720 Charles Darwin. Sasquatching science take the win. Sorry, werewolves. All right, 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.360 So on the bout two we have a physicist and 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.560 mathematicians taken on ghosts and vampires. Tell me what you 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:23.280 think of when you think of ghosts, um, Casper, Casper Casper, 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:28.480 the friendly ghost, polter Geist? Yeah, what else? Well, of 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.240 course Patrick Swayze, oh right, Patrick Swayze and Denny Moore 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:36.120 and uh that whole scene where they're sculpting that piece. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.840 And Jacob Marley. Jacob Marley is a famous and in 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.040 a lot of these cases, you know, you also think 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.400 of floating, you know, I'm definitely moving around and often 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:53.119 going through walls, a favorite trick among ghosts. Yes, and vampires, 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:57.360 of course, yeah, they like just like your blood, That's 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.439 what they're renowned for they're pretty pretty strong. I gotta 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.600 I gotta say, from a purely practical point of view, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.240 that seems I mean, sucking blood. I mean it's it's 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.280 pretty nutrient rich. You could you could do less intelligent 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.280 things as a fantastic being. Yeah, take the leech for instance, 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.640 which we covered recently in a podcast. Those guys get 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.560 along just fine on the blood um, but they're not 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.280 as sexy as the vampires that fill our television screens 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.559 these days. Yeah, I have. So have you seen any 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.800 of this true Blood or read that fictional Now? I 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.800 haven't read it, but I've watched it. Yeah. Alright, Well, 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.000 and then there's the whole series, the Twilight series. Have 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.240 you seen that? I have? I have watched them. Nice, 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.040 I got there with that on the podcast. Yeah, well 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:42.880 with I watched them with a riff track going, so 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.720 it was like they're they're being spoofed a little. But yeah. 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.080 So let's for the purposes of this, let's imagine a 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.440 physicist and mathematician in one corner, and in the other 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:56.840 corner m Edward the vampire from Twilight and Patrick Swayzy 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.360 the ghost. All right, who's gonna win which team? Yeah? 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.640 I'm gonna go with the physicists and mathematicians. Okay, yeah, 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.320 I mean, I mean, I'm not really thinking of these 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.360 guys as particularly skilled in hand to hand combat. I 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.960 don't think that they're you know, they have their black 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.640 belt by any means. But the wits, the wits will 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.559 outsmart these beings. And and here's the here's the thing, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:21.640 the the paper in question, which is cinema fiction versus 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.240 physical reality. Yeah, let's back the sepe with scientific research, 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.840 why don't. Yeah, it comes from our tow you know, 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.440 people in the physicist corner being so Hong Gandhi and 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:35.840 his mentor and professor uh Costas Femi. Yeah, I think 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:37.960 he sounds like a Greek guy. Yeah, and they're from 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:39.600 what they may be Greek, but they're hanging out in 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.840 Florida at the University of Central Florida. Well, the professor 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:47.880 being Greek, I think the other one was not necessarily Greek. Yes, anyway, 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.360 that's it. We're diverged. So anyway, here these are the 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.320 guys that wrote the study, and like right out of 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.440 the gate, their first um, their first argument pretty much 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.600 takes the ghost out of the equation because they basically 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.120 say that all right, So a ghost by its very 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.200 nature is not supposed to take up space. It has 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:10.320 no mass, right, um. But to move forward, a ghost 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.680 would have to be capable of producing force downward, you know, 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.000 in this case, through feet or something you know. Um, 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:19.800 But to go through a wall, a ghost would have 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.640 to be immaterial. See. So it's like you can't have 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.200 it both ways. Either either the ghosts it takes you know, 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.720 has mass and takes up space and can move, or 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.880 it's in material and can go through walls. So their 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:36.160 argument is that ghosts, as typically betrayed in cinema, just 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.960 cannot happen. So it would be either So in this 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.440 fictional battle, which I like to think is taking place 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.840 inside boxing or wrestling ring, Patrick Swayze would either be 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.360 you know, moving through the ring and through the ropes, 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:54.000 or he'll just be standing there. Okay, so we've taken well, 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.480 I mean, we've only knocked out ghosts in one regard 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.360 in that we've we've knocked out a method of look 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.120 emotion that true, pretty much a method of moving around 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.040 the world. Right. Well, I think basically they're saying the 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.200 ghost could move or the ghosts could go through walls. 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.120 But you can't have it both ways. Yeah, so, and 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.400 you could argue, well, that doesn't really say that ghosts 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.120 don't exist, and when they're not really making there even, 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.880 they're just saying the ghost has betrayed that they can't 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:22.640 have it both ways from a physics standpoint, Alright, sorry, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.640 what about vampires? How are they faring in this whole battle? Well, 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.920 vampire for vampires, they come down to they reduce it 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.000 to a pretty simple argument, like what happens when you 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.160 get bit by a vampire in something? In some versions 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.360 of the myth, I turned into a vampire, right, And 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.640 it's a little more complicated in some versions, but they're 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.480 going with become a half vampire? Do I become a 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.840 half vampire? No? No, no, let's just say you become 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.920 a vampire. And again this is vaire. Yeah, do you 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.760 get you get bit by a vampire, you become a vampire. 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.840 And a lot of people say that doesn't make sense 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.800 just from a mathematics standpoint, Well, because they deplete their 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.960 food supply to rapidly, right, and they'd eventually just start 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:01.640 to death because it wouldn't be anything left to eat 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.520 or to drain. Uh. And it's the it's something called 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.600 the mathematical principle of geometric progression. I see, yeah, and 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.640 they say, would say that it would play out about 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:16.639 like this, two point two point five years after like 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.560 a one vampire arrives on the scene, all of humanity 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.560 would be wiped out. Those are some hungry vampires. Yeah, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.959 and it get he breaks down to, like, yeah, it's 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.320 it's like you have a vampire feed once a month 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.800 and then you know there are two more vampires. It's 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.119 it's it's just it just gives, it just gives exponential growth. 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.159 And uh and yeah, so it reminds me of this 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.119 question of the day that I just edited on. The 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:45.520 Malthfeustian premise is an English economist named Thomas Malthis who 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:50.040 was active in the nineteenth century. Since um, since did 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.520 unless he's a vampire, which case he's still living. No, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.680 But Mauthis was saying that his he had this premise 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.000 in which it was pretty simple. He stated that humanity 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.560 and its current rate of growth would outstrip the food 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:09.159 supply because while humanity, while humans grow in an exponential fashion, 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.840 the rate of food production only grows linearly. Anyway, a 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:14.280 little bit of a tangent, but kind of on the 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.800 same thread. Well, it's worth pointing out that as as 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.680 as much as our physicist and mathematician here may may 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.720 celebrate this perceived victory over the vampire. Um, not every 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.680 version of the vampire myth entails people coming back to life, 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.439 like some um, some versions of it involved like you 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.159 have to drink the blood of the vampire to become 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.159 the vampire. And then there are a whole bunch of 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.560 like really crazy vampire myths out there that Hollywood ignores 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.320 because it's too awesome. Like seriously, look up in Vucci 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.600 and it's like one of the just crazy awesome Native 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.040 American I think vampire myths where it's like a giant 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.800 blood bladder that lives in a cave underwater and like 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.520 sends out minions to collect people. It's crazy stuff. But 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.359 and then, and then I think there have been a 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.320 vampire movies, and and what's the fiction that explore the 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.359 idea that vampires would have to discipline themselves in order 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.560 to keep their food supply intact? Yeah, actually, I mean 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.560 you wouldn't think that vampires would be dumb beasts, so 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.400 they would have some mechanism of you know, kin selection 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.800 keeping themselves alive Survival of the Fittest. But so I 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:22.960 guess when you come down to its science, like firmly 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:28.160 wallops both both ghosts and vampires, it does victory science. 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.720 So I think the score is scientists to monster zero. 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.480 All right, let's take on our final battle. Yeah, and 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.760 then this one is going to involve zombies. So what 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:42.680 comes to mind when when someone mentions zombies? Most recently 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:48.480 the British film what is it Sean Sean of the Dead? Yeah, 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.320 that one. Yeah, that's a that's a fun zombie film 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:56.159 that features the more classic slow zombies. I think I 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.280 will eliminate us, me and listeners on the a kind 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.159 of zombies out there. Well basically, I mean you are 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.160 slow zombies and they're fast onmbies. Basically, I think dichotomy. 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.040 There it is, and some people get really been out 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.400 of shape over, including Simon peg Star of a shot 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.919 of the Dead. Um, because you have the classic sort 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.439 of George Romero, um, you know, version of the zombie 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.040 that shambles along and as you know, it's just like 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.760 you know, you know, and they're generally generally the threat 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:24.840 is that there are just lots and lots of them, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.600 and if you you'll and if you don't stay on 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.359 your feet and you know, think, then suddenly you'll find 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.960 yourself in a situation where you can't escape them. But 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.200 along the way you ended up getting some like fast zombie. Um. Um. 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.879 Movies come into play, like, uh, I think, yeah, Return 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:43.720 of the Living Dead I think had fast zombies brought 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.160 by the reanimator. Movies had past zombies. And then most 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.320 notably Twenty eight days Later, the which is a big 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.840 hit out of Britain, and that one had fast zombies. Um. Yeah, 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:54.960 And so people get get really really been out of 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.240 shape over it because people are like Tomby should never 0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:59.640 be fast and and the zombies and twenty eight days 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.360 Later aren't technically zombies. They're actually people infected with the disease. 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.879 And but but anyway, for for all intents and purposes, 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.640 in this podcast, we're talking about slow zombies. Yeah. I'm 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.720 with that. Let's stay true to be the old stereotype. Yeah. So, um, 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:17.520