1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: Wilson. 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: Oh, Tracy. We're in a time of year when a 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: lot of folks are kind of looking to the future 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: and thinking about the coming year and setting goals for themselves. 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: We've talked about it many times on the show. I 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: love doing that, I love the year turnover, and I 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: love a good resolution and a new planner. But this 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: also leads to a lot of people purchasing self help 12 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: books of one kind or another as they work on 13 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: those goals. And I am very fascinated by the self 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: help genre, so I thought it might be interesting to 15 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: talk about the ways self help books have evolved over time, 16 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: even before they were called self help books. But here's 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: the real real. I almost produced a very different episode. 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: I started out actually working on an episode about positive 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: psychology and the ways that having a positive mindset has 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: been touted as a life changing attribute throughout history. The idea, though, 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: is so often weaponized against people who are dealing with 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: illnesses or disabilities, or just difficult times in their lives. 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: As though if they just adopted a positive attitude, everything 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: would turn around. Look, positive thinking has benefits, But I 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: don't want any part of that other blogney. We will 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about some of it, but researching 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: that as a single episode made me feel weird and 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: I didn't like it. So while there's the potential for 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: it to become a future episode if I find an 30 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: avenue into it, that doesn't make me feel lucky. That's 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: not what this is. This seemed like a more enjoyable 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: way to end the year. As I just said, there 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: are still some mentions in this episode of how people 34 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: need to be self reliant and upbeat. The advice of 35 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century definitely came with that attitude that that 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: was all you needed, but it is much less than 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: the other topic would have given us. Some of them 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: do insist that people just need to laugh more, which 39 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: is also pretty useless. We're not dealing with that. We 40 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: are also not getting into things like workout books and 41 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: like how to change your body, because your body's fine 42 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: just the way it is. This is actually just to 43 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: set up expectations. A pretty breezy history through some of 44 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: the ancient books that offered relatively practical advice all the 45 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: way through to when of more how to approach was developed, 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: and we're noting a few prominent titles and standout developments 47 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: along the way. And I kind of use the guardrails 48 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 1: of focusing on writings that were mostly intended for kind 49 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,559 Speaker 1: of general self help advice. Some of these writings are problematic, 50 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: but that's sort of secondary to the other. Rather Labrador 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: retriever esque takes on positivity, and I'm looking at you, 52 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: Douglas Fairbanks, and we'll talk about that. We're going to 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: talk about his book, but the most problematic one, which 54 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: does kind of fall into that it's all in your 55 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: mind and you can control your life with your mind. 56 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: Bucket is going to come last. So if even hearing 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: about it, even though ours is a pretty critical lens, 58 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: is not your thing, that will be where to jump, 59 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: and we will give you a heads up when we 60 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: get there. It was a very long intro to say 61 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: self help books are interesting, some are yucky, and we 62 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: will let you know before we get to the luckiest one. 63 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: We're talking about the origins of self help writing are 64 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: often traced back to the ancient world, and there have 65 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: been texts full of advice written from the moment that 66 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: humans could write, it seems ancient Egyptian writing offered advice 67 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: on how to live a virtuous life, known as wisdom 68 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 2: literature or sabaiet. This is often framed as a hybrid 69 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: of narrative and didactic writing, contextualized as pieces of wisdom 70 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: or instruction being shared by a father to his son. 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: The most famous example is the Teachings of Tahoteps, sometimes 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: called the Maxims of tahoe Tep or the Instruction of Tahotep, 73 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: which was believed to have been written during the reign 74 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: of Jedkari a Sesesi in the twenty fourth century BCE. 75 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: Is often referenced as being the oldest book in the. 76 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: World, and this book is laid out as the advice 77 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: that vizier Tahotep gives his son with the permission of 78 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: the Pharaoh regarding how things operate, so that he may be, 79 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: in the Pharaoh's words, a quote good example for the 80 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: children of the magistrates. These teachings offer a lot of 81 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: practical instructions, like how to win an argument. That section 82 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: states quote, if thou find an arguer talking, one that 83 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: is well disposed and wiser than thou, let thine arms fall, 84 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: bend thy back, Be not angry with him. If he 85 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: agree not with THEE, refrain from speaking e. Oppose him 86 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: not at any time when he speaketh. If he address 87 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: THEE as one ignorant of the matter, Thine humbleness shall 88 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: bear away his contentions. If thou find an arguer talking 89 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: thy fellow, one that is within thy reach, keep not 90 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: silent when he saith aught that is evil. So shalt 91 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: thou be wiser than he. Great will be the applause 92 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: on the part of the listeners, and thy name shall 93 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: be good in the knowledge of princes. If thou find 94 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: an arguer talking a poor man, that is to say, 95 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: not thine equal, be not scornful toward him because he 96 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: is lowly. Let him alone. Then shall he confound himself. 97 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: Question him not to please thine heart. Neither pour out 98 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: thy wrath upon him, that is before THEE. It is 99 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: shameful to confuse a mean mind. If thou be about 100 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: to do that which is in thine heart, overcome it 101 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,559 Speaker 1: as a thing rejected of princes. So if they're smarter 102 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: than you, maybe supplicate. If they're your equal, call him out. 103 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: If they're saying bad stuff, and if there's somebody that 104 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: is less smart than you, don't be mean, which is 105 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: actually all pretty good advice. This book is also full 106 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: of instructions on things like keeping your wife happy, which 107 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: included keeping her well fed and clothed and gladdening her heart, 108 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: how to treat servants, which is pretty good advice. It's 109 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: about being kind and respectful of people, even if they 110 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: are technically under your employee or beneath you in the 111 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: hierarchy of society, obeying your elders, et cetera. And on learning, 112 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: it stated quote, be not proud because thou art learned. 113 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: But discourse with the ignorant man is with the sage. 114 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: For no limit can be set to skill. Neither is 115 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: there any craftsman that possesseth full advantages. Fair speech is 116 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: more rare than the emerald that is found by slave 117 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: maidens on the pebbles. 118 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: Confucius, who lived in the sixth and fifth centuries BCE, 119 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: did not write any books himself, but as collected wisdom, 120 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: was committed to write in books like the Anaalects, and 121 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 2: could loosely be considered self help because of the advice 122 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: he offered on living a long and fulfilled life. Confucius 123 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: based his teachings on the idea that people are inherently good, 124 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: and that by studying and practicing virtue, the less noble 125 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: characteristics and instincts of human behavior could be controlled. Almost 126 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: everyone has probably been exposed to a number of quotes 127 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: attributed to Confucius, like quote everything has beauty, but not 128 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: everyone sees it, or quote in a country well governed, 129 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: poverty is something to be ashamed of, and a country 130 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: badly governed wealth is something to be ashamed of. When 131 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: most Westerners today think of Confucius, there's this tendency to 132 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: envision sort of a peaceful sage, just sort of issuing 133 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: inspiring or thought provoking phrases. But Confucius lived at a 134 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: contentious time in China's history, and he was involved in 135 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: political strife as he worked in service of the Duke 136 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: of lou It was after his exile, because of his 137 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: political ideas, that Confucius began teaching his ideals of mutual 138 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: respect in rural China. 139 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: There is a really interesting aspect of Confucian wisdom, which 140 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: is it because it was written down by his students 141 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: after he died, we can't conclusively know that all of 142 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: his often quoted words were actually entirely his own, or 143 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: his own at all. Still, the Analects can be considered 144 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: an early self help guide. 145 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 2: Ancient Greece also offers some examples of writing that could 146 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: loosely be labeled as self help. In On the Shortness 147 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: of Life, Stoic philosopher Seneca offered wisdom such as quote, 148 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: it's not that we have a short time to live, 149 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: but that we waste much of it. Life is long enough, 150 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: and it's been given to us in generous measure for 151 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: accomplishing the greatest things, if the whole of it is 152 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: well invested. But when life is squandered through soft and 153 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: careless living, and when it's spent on no worthwhile pursuit, 154 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: death finally presses and we realize that the life which 155 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: we didn't notice passing, has passed away. He also mentions 156 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: that wealth is often a burden, noting that men of 157 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 2: prosperity quote are choked by their own goods, giving readers 158 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: the lesson that it's better not to want so much stuff. 159 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: Honestly, a lot of the advice Seneca gives in this 160 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: book is solid, and it's pretty inspiring. He cautioned against 161 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: postponing the things that you want to do, waiting for 162 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: some achievement marker, or for conditions to be exactly right 163 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: before you can rest, or play, or just enjoy your life. 164 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: He wrote quote, putting things off is the biggest waste 165 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: of life, robbing each day as it comes, and denying 166 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: the present with the promise of the future. The greatest 167 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: obstacle to living is expectancy. 168 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: But these early examples of guiding people to improved living 169 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 2: we're very different in their focus from the way we 170 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 2: think about self help guides today. There was no attempt 171 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: to frame it as a cheat code for greater success. 172 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: These weren't about achieving or getting anything. They were primarily 173 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: about getting through life the best way you could and 174 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: being a better person, and that was so that you 175 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: could be a better member of society in most cases. 176 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: Coming up, we will talk about how one of the 177 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: US founding fathers brought the idea of self help instruction 178 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: into the modern age. But first we will pause for 179 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: a sponsor break. Benjamin Franklin didn't publish a self help 180 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: book exactly, but in his autobiography he included a lot 181 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: of advice about the way he lived his life and 182 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: his own quest to continually improve, which he had systematized, 183 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: and this makes up chapter nine of that writing titled 184 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: Plan for Attaining Moral Perfection, and he shared that system 185 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: he developed, complete with his daily calendar and a set 186 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: of thirteen virtues he believed were important, and the way 187 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: he implemented his pursuit of those values in his life, 188 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: also with a calendar layout. He talks about how tricky 189 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: the pursuit of moral perfection can be, writing quote, I 190 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: wished to live without committing any fault. At any time. 191 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: I would conquer all that either natural inclination, custom, or 192 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: company might lead me into. I knew or thought I 193 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: knew what was right and wrong. I did not see 194 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: why I might not always do the one and avoid 195 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 2: the other. But I soon found I had undertaken a 196 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: task of more difficulty than I had imagined. While my 197 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: care was employed in guarding against one fault, I was 198 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: often surprised by another. Habit took the advantage of inattention. 199 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: Inclination was sometimes too strong. For reason. I concluded at 200 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: length that the mere speculative can and that it was 201 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: our interest to be completely virtuous, was not sufficient to 202 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 2: prevent our slipping, and that the contrary habits must be 203 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 2: broken and good ones acquired and established before we can 204 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 2: have any dependence on a steady, uniform rectitude of conduct 205 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: for this purpose. I therefore contrived the following method. 206 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: So the first step in his method was figuring out 207 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: a list of virtues that he thought would encompass the 208 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: entirety of improved morality if he pursued them. And he 209 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: came up with thirteen, and each of them had a 210 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: short explanatory phrase to elaborate on what that meant in 211 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: day to day life. We're going to talk in a 212 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: minute about why he chose thirteen. But the list of 213 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: thirteen virtues were One temperance, eat not to dullness, drink 214 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: not to elevation. Two silence, speak not but what may 215 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: benefit others or yourself. Avoid trifling conversations. Three order, Let 216 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: all all your things have their places. Let each part 217 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: of your business have its time. Four resolution resolve to 218 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: perform what you ought, perform without fail what you resolve. 219 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: Five Frugality. Make no expense but to do good to 220 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: others or yourself i e. Waste nothing. Six industry, lose 221 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: no time, be always employed in something useful. Cut off 222 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: all unnecessary actions. Seven Sincerity, use no hurtful deceit. Think 223 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: innocently and justly, and if you speak, speak accordingly. Eight 224 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: Justice wrong none by doing injuries or omitting the benefits 225 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: that are your duty. Nine moderation avoid extremes, forbear resenting 226 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: injuries so much as you think they deserve. Ten Cleanliness. 227 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: Tolerate no uncleanliness in body, clothes or habitation. Eleven Tranquility 228 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: be not disturbed at trifle or at accidents common or unavoidable. 229 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: Twelve chastity. Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, 230 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own 231 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: or another's piece or reputation. Thirteen Humility imitate Jesus and Socrates. Listen, 232 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: we know Ben Franklin was a womanizer, so chastity was 233 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: very funny to me. 234 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: Working on thirteen different virtues is a lot, and Franklin 235 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: knew this was something that would take ongoing work, so 236 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: he planned to work on it in a rotating system. 237 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: Quote. 238 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: My intention being to acquire the habitude of all these virtues. 239 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: I judged it would be well not to distract my 240 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: attention by attempting the whole at once. But to fix 241 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: it on one of them at a time, and when 242 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: I should be master of that, then to proceed to another, 243 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: and so on till I should have gone through the thirteen. 244 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: And as the previous acquisition of some might facilitate the 245 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: acquisition of certain, I arranged them with that view as 246 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: they stand above. 247 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: So Ben Franklin describes in this autobiography setting up a 248 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: little notebook that is going to sound rather familiar to 249 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: anyone who has used a bullet journal or a similar 250 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: tracking journal. And he's very thorough in his description and 251 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: actually includes example charts so that readers can create their own. 252 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: He used one page to set up a chart with 253 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: seven columns for the days of the week across the top, 254 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: and then lines for each of the thirteen virtues going 255 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: down the page. So, using this chart, anytime he failed 256 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: to uphold a virtue, he would make a black mark 257 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: in the box that corresponded with the virtue and the 258 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: day of the week. And the goal was eventually to 259 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: have a completely clean chart. 260 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: But for each week he picked one virtue as his 261 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: primary focus. The idea was that focusing on a single 262 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 2: virtue for a week would strengthen that virtue without having 263 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: to worry about any of the others. Then the second week, 264 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: when he focus on the next virtue, the first one 265 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: would already have been improved, and this was meant to 266 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: be a repeating system. He chose thirteen virtues because that 267 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: meant he could complete the cycle four times every year, 268 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: filling all fifty two weeks of the calendar. Franklin also 269 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 2: offered an example of how he allocated his time each day, 270 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: with blocks for preparing his day work in the morning 271 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 2: and afternoon, a midday break for eating and reading, and 272 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: a wrap up block from six to ten in which 273 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: he tidied up, had his dinner, enjoyed entertainment, and had 274 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: what he called his quote examination. 275 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: Of the day. Regarding the results of his whole method, 276 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: he wrote, quote, I entered upon the execution of this 277 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: plan for self examination and continued it with occasional intermissions 278 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: for some time. I was surprised to find myself so 279 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: much fuller of faults than I had imagined, but I 280 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: had the satisfaction of seeing them diminish. And he's also 281 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: clear that this is not a system in which it's 282 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: really all that realistic to achieve perfection, writing quote, But 283 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: on the whole though I never arrived at the perfection 284 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: I had been so ambitious of obtaining, but fell far 285 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: short of it. Yet I was, by the endeavor a 286 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: better and a happier man than I otherwise should have 287 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: been if I had not attempted it. He also mentioned 288 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: that the virtue that gave him the most trouble was order. 289 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: Again a little surprising, perhaps made me giggle. Franklin also 290 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: shared various quotes that he would sometimes include in his 291 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: notebooks to inspire him throughout his efforts to improve himself. 292 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: Though Benjamin Franklin included the kind of material you'd associate 293 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: with self help books and his autobiography, it still wasn't 294 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: called self help. That term, which sometimes has a hyphen 295 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: in it and sometimes not, was coined by Scottish author 296 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: Samuel Smiles. His work in the field is sometimes described 297 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: as ushering in the modern genre of self help. Smiles 298 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: was born on December twenty third, eighteen twelve in Berwickshire, Scotland, 299 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: which is in the southeast of the country. His father 300 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: was also named Samuel, and his mother was named Janet, 301 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: and he had ten siblings. He attended school in Haddington 302 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: and became an apprentice to a physician's office at the 303 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: age of fourteen. When he was seventeen, he moved to Leith, 304 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: Scotland with one of the doctors that he apprenticed under, 305 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: and then he enrolled in Edinburgh University in eighteen twenty 306 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: nine to get his medical degree. When Samuel was twenty two, 307 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: big life events happened. He got his MD and his 308 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: father died while he was still grieving. He started his 309 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: own medical practice, but he didn't stay with it for 310 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 1: very long. Smiles had started writing for the Edinburgh Weekly 311 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: Chronicle as sort of a hobby, writing articles about politics, 312 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: and he found that he really enjoyed writing so much 313 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: that he published a book in eighteen thirty eight about 314 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: raising children. Yeah it's got a misleading title, which we'll 315 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: talk about misleading titles with him in a moment, called 316 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: physical education. But it's literally about like the physical body 317 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: of your child, not about doing sports like activities and exercise. 318 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: The same year that book came out, he also made 319 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: a career pivot to journalism because he wanted to write 320 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: full time and not be a doctor anymore, and he 321 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: moved to Leeds, England to try to build a career 322 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: in that field. He worked as editor of the Leeds 323 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: Times from eighteen thirty eight to eighteen forty two, and 324 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: while working at the paper in Leeds, which was considered 325 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: a progressive publication, he became a huge supporter of free trade. 326 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: Smiles didn't stay in the journalism game though. In eighteen 327 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: forty he met civil engineer George Stevenson, who is known 328 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: today by the nickname the Father of Railways. Stevenson will 329 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 1: probably be a future episode, but the short version is this, 330 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: he was highly instrumental in the development of the steam 331 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: locomotive and railways in England. When the two men met 332 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: at a railway opening, they hit it off and soon 333 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: Smiles was working for the railway as the secretary of 334 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: the Leeds in Thirsk Railway. That was in eighteen forty five. 335 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: He stayed with the company for more than twenty years, 336 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: working in various positions. During that time, he kept writing. 337 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: He continued to write political articles which were published in 338 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: Eliza Cook's journal. He published a biography of George Stevenson 339 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty seven. He would continue writing about accomplished 340 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: engineers and the engineering accomplishments that were ushering in the 341 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: industrial age for the rest of his life. But the 342 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: book that was a runaway hit was the one titled 343 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: Self Help with Illustrations of Character and Conduct, which came 344 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: out in eighteen fifty nine. Smiles had finished writing the 345 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: book before his Stevenson biography, but it had some difficulty 346 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: in finding an interested publisher. On the title page of 347 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: Self Help, Smiles included the Shakespeare quote from the play 348 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: Hamlet this above all, to thine own self be true, 349 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: and it must fallow, so as the night the day 350 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: than canst not then be false to any man. He 351 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: explained in his introduction how he ended up writing such 352 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: a book quote. The origin of this book may be 353 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: briefly told. Some fifteen years since the author was requested 354 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: to deliver an address before the members of some evening 355 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: classes which had been formed in a northern town for 356 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: mutual improvement under the following circumstances. He spent some time 357 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: at this point talking through the organic formation of this group, 358 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: how it started with a few young men who met 359 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: in one of their homes every week to share knowledge 360 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: in the hopes of improving themselves, and how that group 361 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: grew so large that they eventually needed to rent space 362 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: in a large apartment that had once been a cholera hospital. 363 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: When the group had one hundred members, they started asking 364 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: lecturers to come and give talks to the assembled young men, 365 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: and that's when they approached Smiles. Speaking in the third person, 366 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: Smiles continues the story as it were guard in his 367 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: involvement quote, he could not fail to be touched by 368 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: the admirable self helping spirit which they had displayed, And 369 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: though entertaining but slight faith and popular lecturing, he felt 370 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: that a few words of encouragement, honestly and sincerely uttered, 371 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: might not be without some good effect. And in this 372 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: spirit he addressed them on more than one occasion, citing 373 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: examples of what other men had done as illustrations of 374 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: what each might, in a greater or less degree, do 375 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: for himself, and pointing out that their happiness and well 376 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: being as individuals and afterlife must necessarily depend mainly upon themselves, 377 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: upon their own diligent self culture, self discipline, and self control, 378 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: and above all, on that honest and upright performance of 379 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: individual duty, which is the glory of manly character. So 380 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: Smiles admits in this writing that this wasn't new information 381 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: he was sharing in these lectures, just sharing some relatively 382 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: old fashioned advice about various things. But this topic of 383 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: improving yourself this way became a source of great interest 384 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: to him after the first lecture, and he began to 385 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: study it. And that's when he started giving additional lectures 386 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: to the group based on those studies, and he stood 387 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: firm on the idea that those old fashioned pieces of 388 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: advice were still valid. Writing quote, the object of the book, 389 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: briefly is to reinculcate these old fashioned but wholesome lessons 390 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: which perhaps cannot be too often urged. That youth must 391 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: work in order to enjoy, that nothing creditable can be 392 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: accomplished without application and diligence, That the student must not 393 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: be daunted by difficulties, but conquer them by patience and perseverance, 394 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: And that above all, he must seek elevation of character, 395 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: without which capacity is worthless and worldly success is not. 396 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: Most of these lectures, and subsequently the chapters of the 397 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: book are about the lives of men who achieved a 398 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: measure of perceived success or greatness in their lives, and 399 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: what qualities smiles thought led them to that success. A 400 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: lot of the messaging in the book is really about 401 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: self reliance. It opens by saying you can only count 402 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: on yourself, and that relying on others will make you weak. 403 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: Quote. Help from without is often enfeebling in its effects, 404 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 2: but help from within invariably invigorates. Whatever is done for 405 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 2: men or classes, to a certain extent takes away the 406 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 2: stimulus and necessity of doing for themselves. And where men 407 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: are subjected to over guidance and over government, the inevitable 408 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 2: tendency is to render them comparatively helpless. He also kind 409 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: of goes on an anti government rant here stating quote Moreover, 410 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 2: it is every day becoming more clearly understood that the 411 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 2: function of government is negative and restrictive, rather than positive 412 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: and active. There was actually a little bit of misunderstanding 413 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 2: of the title of this book initially, and in an 414 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: eighteen ninety seven reprint of it, the new preface, written 415 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 2: by Smiles included the mention of this problem quote. In 416 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: one respect, the title of the book, which it is 417 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 2: now too late to alter, has proved unfortunate, as it 418 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 2: has led some who have judged it merely by the 419 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: title to suppose that it consists of a eulogy of selfishness, 420 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: the very opposite of what it really is, or at 421 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 2: least what the author intended it to be. In the 422 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 2: twentieth century, the self help genre in publishing just exploded 423 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: in popularity. And we'll talk about a celebrity self help 424 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 2: book right after we hear from some of the sponsors 425 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 2: that keep stuffiness in history class going. In nineteen seventeen, 426 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: we see the rise of celebrity self help writing when 427 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: Douglas Fairbanks published his book Laugh and Live. Fairbanks is 428 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 2: one of those people who believed being happy is a 429 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: choice for everyone, and he opens the book with that 430 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 2: message quote, there is one thing in this good old 431 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 2: world that is positively sure. Happiness is for all who 432 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: strive to be happy, and those who laugh are happy. 433 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: Everybody is eligible, You me, the other fellow. Happiness is 434 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 2: fundamentally a state of mind, not a state of body 435 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 2: and mind controls. Indeed, it is possible to stand with 436 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: one foot on the inevitable banana peel of life, with 437 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: both eyes peering into the great beyond, and still be happy, comfortable, 438 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 2: and serene, if we will even so much as smile. 439 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: This book is obviously overly simplistic, with a very upbeat 440 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: attitude to sell it. Fairbanks advise as readers to take 441 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 2: stock of themselves to really acknowledge their strength and their weaknesses, 442 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 2: which can be a good exercise. 443 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: For most people. 444 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 2: But the rest is sort of fluffy, talk about finding 445 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 2: your drive and your energy and keeping in good shape 446 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 2: and good humor. There's even a chapter titled building up 447 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 2: a Personality that mostly just suggests you focus on what 448 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: he calls sturdy qualities without really saying what those qualities are. Overall, 449 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: the whole thing reads like a very perky book written 450 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: by a man who has lived a charmed life. 451 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, it couldn't help but envision Douglas Fairbanks with his 452 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: pen being like, this is really brilliant, and it's like 453 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: because it's written from your life experience, which has been 454 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, very privileged, very happy, very lucky. A man 455 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: named Dale Carnegie wrote one of the most long lived 456 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: self help books in nineteen thirty six, which was How 457 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: to Win Friends and Influence People. Carnegie was a Missouri 458 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: farm kid who tried out a number of jobs when 459 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: he reached adulthood, including say and acting, before he started 460 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: teaching public speaking classes, which was something that he just 461 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: naturally excelled at. Incidentally, his name was originally spelled car 462 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: na ge Y but he changed it to Carnegie, the 463 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: spelling that we would associate with Andrew Carnegie. He allegedly 464 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: told people that that was so that others would misspell 465 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: his name less because they never got his original spelling right. 466 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: But there are also some theories that he just wanted 467 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: to capitalize on the clout of Andrew Carnegie's name. 468 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: I would say, even almost one hundred years later, probably 469 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: most people who have heard of Dale Carnegie think he 470 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: was related to Andrew Carnegie somehow. Yes, there's also a 471 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 2: whole episode of the podcast If Books Could Kill about 472 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: this book. If yees want to have more about it, 473 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: well we'll talk about as Starting in the nineteen twenties, 474 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: Dale Carnegie started writing books about public speaking, and they 475 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: were aimed at businessmen, but he continued to give in 476 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: person courses, and that's how he was discovered by an 477 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: employee from Simon and Schuster who thought Dale's instruction could 478 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: appeal to a general audience outside the business world. The 479 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: result of that chance meeting was how to win friends 480 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 2: and influence people. The book promised eight things in its 481 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: opening pages, stating that it would help the reader quote 482 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 2: get out of a mental rut, think new thoughts, acquire 483 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: new visions, discover new ambitions, make friends quickly and easily. 484 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: Increase your popularity. Win people to your way of thinking. 485 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: Increase your influence, your prestige, your ability to get things done, 486 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: handle complaints, avoid arguments, keep your human contact smooth and pleasant. 487 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: Become a better speaker, a more entertaining conversationalist. Arouse enthusiasm 488 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: among your associates. This particular book is largely a guide 489 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 2: map to positive interpersonal communication. Carnegie explains that getting along 490 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: with people in a way that also gets you what 491 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: you want largely comes down to a form of cooperation. 492 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: Quote. There's one way under high Heaven to get anybody 493 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: to do anything. Did you ever stop to think of that? Yes, 494 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: just one way, and that is by making the other 495 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: person want to do it. Remember there is no other way. 496 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: Of course. You can make someone want to give you 497 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: his watch by sticking a revolver in his ribs. You 498 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: can make your employees give you cooperation until your back 499 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: is turned by threatening to fire them. You can make 500 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: a child do what you want it to do by 501 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: a whip or a threat. But these crude methods have 502 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: sharply undesirable repercussions. So his advice is to get people 503 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: on your side by giving them a feeling of importance. 504 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: But he states vehemently, quote, i am not suggesting flattery. 505 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: Far from it. I'm talking about a new way of life. 506 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: Let me repeat, I am talking about a new way 507 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: of life. And some of Carnegie's advice around this is 508 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: pretty sound. It really comes down to appreciating people and 509 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: acknowledging them. 510 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 2: Obviously there's more, but that really is the root of 511 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 2: the whole ideology. Really, be interested in other people, be 512 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: a good listener, show respect even when you disagree, and 513 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 2: this struck a chord with readers, and it still does. 514 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: How to Win Friends remains popular. While researching this episode, 515 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: Hollywood a search for it on Amazon and found that 516 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 2: it was number eighteen on the top twenty most read 517 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: books of the week, and it's been on that list 518 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: for years. So this all sounds pretty upbeat, and there 519 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 2: are actually a lot of famous and successful people who 520 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 2: have credited Carnegie's work with inspiring them and making them 521 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 2: better leaders and achievers. But it does of course come 522 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 2: with the dark aspect of people using this for outright manipulation, 523 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: and there is one very extreme instance of this and 524 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: that's Charles Manson, who took a course based on Carnegie's 525 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 2: book while he was in prison in the nineteen fifties 526 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: for stealing a car, and then he used those teachings 527 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: from the book to assemble his followers known as the Family, 528 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 2: and got them to commit crimes, including murder, often by 529 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 2: making them believe it was all their own idea rather 530 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 2: than his. Carnegie wrote several other self help books along 531 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: the same lines, as How to Win Friends, including how 532 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: to develop self confidence and influence people by public speaking, 533 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: How to Enjoy your life and your job, How to 534 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: Stop Worrying and start living, and The Quick and Easy 535 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: Way to Effective Speaking. Yeah, all with kind of you know, 536 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: mixed reviews, plenty of criticism to go around for these. 537 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 2: But the last book that we're going to talk about 538 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 2: has also been popular for decades, but it has been 539 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: controversial from its earliest printing, and so has its author, 540 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 2: and that is Norman Vincent Peel's nineteen fifty two book 541 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 2: The Power of Positive Thinking. So this, this book is 542 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 2: the most problematic one that we're talking about today that 543 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: we mentioned at the very top of the show. So 544 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: Norman Vincent Peel was born May thirty first eighteen ninety 545 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 2: eight in Bowersville, Ohio. His father was a Methodist preacher, 546 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: and the family moved around to whatever place the church 547 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 2: assigned him to. Peel initially pursued a journalism career after 548 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 2: getting his degree from Ohio Wesleyan University, but he switched 549 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: to ministry like his father not long after. Peel was, 550 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: by all accounts, a compelling and really popular preacher, with 551 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: a talent for quickly growing the size of any congregation 552 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 2: he was assigned to. In the nineteen thirties, he started 553 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 2: a radio show called The Art of Living, and in 554 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty one he founded the American Foundation of Religion 555 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 2: and Psychiatry. In a twenty twenty one writing, cultural anthropologist 556 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 2: doctor Holly Walters mentioned this foundation and why it has 557 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: often been criticized, writing quote. Much of the current American 558 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 2: ethos of toxic positivity can be traced back to the 559 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 2: nineteen thirties when two men, Norman Vincent Peelee, a Methodist 560 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 2: minister and Smiley Blanton, a psychoanalyst, established a religio psychiatric 561 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: clinic next door to their church. Their methods then for 562 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 2: faith based psychological healing tended towards the idea that mental 563 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 2: and emotional problems had their ultimate roots in a crisis 564 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: of belief, and that is also true of the power 565 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: of positive thinking and other books written by Peel. He 566 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 2: gives example after example of people who've turned their lives 567 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 2: completely around simply by changing their thinking, but that thinking 568 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: is always tied to Christian faith. The tenth rule in 569 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 2: his list of rules for living a life of positivity 570 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 2: was quote, believed that you can receive power from God. 571 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 2: This is an interesting contrast to the self help instruction 572 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 2: of Benjamin Franklin, who wrote in his writing about his 573 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: method to improve morality quote, though my scheme was not 574 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 2: wholly without religion, there wasn't no mark of any of 575 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 2: the distinguishing tenets of any particular sect. I had purposely 576 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 2: avoided them, for being fully persuaded of the utility and 577 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: excellency of my method, and that it might be serviceable 578 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: to people in all religions, and intending some time or 579 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 2: other to publish it. I would not have anything in 580 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 2: it that should prejudice anyone of any sect against it. 581 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: So, in addition to Peel's work, including the specific need 582 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: for the Christian religion, which caused a lot of criticism. 583 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: The bigger issue that a lot of people had and 584 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: still have with Peel is that there's not much verifiable 585 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: information in his writing. His many examples of success stories 586 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: all tend to be anonymous. It's all very I know 587 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: a guy who had this problem, but he did what 588 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: I told him, and now he doesn't have that problem anymore. 589 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: There's no names, and there's no case studies, and there's 590 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: no documentation of anything. While this book is also still 591 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,479 Speaker 1: in print, Pie's method has been condemned by mental health 592 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: professionals since it came out because it lacks evidence and 593 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: can frankly be damaging to people. Peel also caused problems 594 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: for himself politically. He was very active in Conservative politics. 595 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: He was against the New Deal. 596 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 2: For example, when Adelie Stevenson was on the ballot as 597 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 2: vice president, Peel openly campaigned against him, claiming that because 598 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 2: he was divorced, he was ungodly and problematic. Stevenson famously 599 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 2: equipped and replied to finding out about it quote, I 600 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: find Paul appealing and Peel appalling, invoking the apostle Paul 601 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 2: to show that he was indeed a religious man. But 602 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty so eight years after his very popular 603 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 2: book came out, he aligned with a number of other 604 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 2: Protestant ministers against JFK in the presidential campaign, convinced that 605 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 2: if Kennedy won, he would be more loyal to the 606 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 2: Pope than to the United States, and this caused, understandably 607 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 2: a huge outrage and a lot of people called for 608 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 2: Peel to resign as a minister. He did not, though, 609 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 2: and in nineteen eighty four Ronald Reagan gave him the 610 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 2: Presidential Medal of Freedom. Yeah. 611 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: Even at the time, people in his congregation were like, what, No, 612 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: that's a weird conspiracy theory, dude, Like, yeah, he really 613 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: thought that the Papal States were somehow going to suddenly 614 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: control the United States. Yeah, because Kennedy was Catholic. The 615 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory that's still around. Yeah, And this is an 616 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful person preaching this. But in the years since 617 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: these early self help books, there have been literally thousands 618 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: of books to offer how to advice for people eager 619 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,240 Speaker 1: to improve their lives, and they have become much more specialized. 620 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: While Ben Franklin wrote about his struggle to keep the 621 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: virtue of order and maintain tidy surroundings, just as a 622 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: single paragraph in his book. There are, for example, so 623 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: many books today intended to teach people how to keep house. 624 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: Any of them are even specialized within that niche area. 625 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: So you can find self help books about cleaning that 626 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: are geared toward neurodivergent readers, cleaning books that focus on 627 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: transitioning to minimalism, cleaning books that are just for small spaces, 628 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: et cetera. You can get books on how to get 629 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,439 Speaker 1: better sleep, how to improve your memory, how to train 630 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: for a marathon, how to do almost anything you can 631 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: think of, and listen, some of them actually have fairly 632 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: good advice. There are a lot of self help books 633 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: that are written by credentialed experts that are reviewed by 634 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: their peers that actually are not going to cause damage. 635 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: Most of the advice in those ones involves the reader 636 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: doing a lot of actual work and being tenacious to 637 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: achieve that desired result or to improve things. But because 638 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: people are always eager to find that magic answer that's 639 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,240 Speaker 1: going to change everything they dislike about their lives really quickly, 640 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: there are also a lot of useless ones that are 641 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: just capitalizing on that need. 642 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,760 Speaker 2: Additionally, different people function differently when it comes to things 643 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 2: like positive versus negative Thinking. A twenty eleven article and 644 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 2: Scientific American written by Scott o' lillenfield and hal Arkwitz 645 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 2: notes that quote positive thinking surely comes with advantages. It 646 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 2: may encourage us to take needed risks to expand our horizons, 647 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 2: but it has downsides as well, and may not be 648 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 2: for everyone, especially those for whom worrying and fetching come 649 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 2: naturally as coping mechanisms. Moreover, positive thinking may be counterproductive 650 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 2: if it leads us to blithely ignore life's dangers. 651 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: Oh, I have so much to talk about on Friday. 652 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 1: I do too, But right now I'm gonna talk about Doles, 653 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: do it. Kathy writes, Dear Holly and Tracy, I've been 654 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: listening to the podcast for about seven years and have 655 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoyed doing so. The two of you obviously put 656 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: a lot of work into making the show fun as 657 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: well as educational. Thank you for your efforts. I was 658 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: listening to the behind the scenes on Cranberry's and heard 659 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: Holly bemoaning having to make large batches of Dole whip 660 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: in order to enjoy having Cranberry sauce with it. It just 661 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: so happens that as I was searching for popsicles for 662 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: my son. While compiling my grocery delivery order, I came 663 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: across snack sized portions of Dole Whip. I don't know 664 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: which store down south would carry it. It's giant here 665 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: in northern Virginia, but it's got to be somewhere. I 666 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: hope you can find it so you can joy your 667 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: treat anytime you want. Best Kathy, and that, of course 668 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: led me to look it up, and she's not wrong 669 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: at all. You can go to dolesunshine dot com and 670 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: you can put in there's a where to buy button, 671 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: and you can put in your zip code and it 672 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: will tell you. Like I was surprised at how many 673 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: places near me actually carry these little cups. Kroger, which 674 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: is a popular grocery store here, publics, even some Walgreens 675 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: have them. Like there are options, So I was incorrect 676 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 1: in saying that you could only get them in a 677 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: few places, because apparently now you can get dull Whip anywhere, 678 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: which is great. And then you can make your own 679 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: cranberry sauce if you want, or you can buy the 680 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 1: can stuff. I put it on top and enjoy the 681 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: experience and delight. Listen, I'm running out to do it 682 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: after we finished recording today. Thank you so much for 683 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: giving me that heads up, because I sure didn't need it. 684 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can 685 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: do so at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You 686 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 1: can also subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app 687 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows. 688 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 2: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 689 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 690 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.