1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,040
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quetch Love Supreme.

3
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,600
Speaker 2: I'm you know, it's court Love and with three of course,

4
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,320
Speaker 2: this is the ever present Team Supreme. Uh, frantically, what's happening.

5
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,600
Speaker 3: What's happening, what's happening, what's happening?

6
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was about to say, you gotta tell me

7
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 2: what's the after effect of the Little Brother documentary.

8
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 3: Uh, it's been a lot, man.

9
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,880
Speaker 4: I think the first week it came out, like when

10
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,199
Speaker 4: we first put it out during the uh during Black Friday,

11
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 4: I had one my homie hit me and was like, Yo, man,

12
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,720
Speaker 4: I haven't talked to my sister in three years, and

13
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,879
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give her a call after watching this. So

14
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 4: it's been it's been stuff like that. Like it hasn't

15
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 4: even been a lot of music shit. It's been people

16
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 4: just been hitting me, just talking about personal shit, personal

17
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 4: shit like yo, ill my man's like yo, I'm about to.

18
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 3: Start my own business now being bullshit and this. You know,

19
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 3: it's been a lot.

20
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,560
Speaker 4: So it's been opened up a lot of conversations that uh,

21
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,360
Speaker 4: I think we're Yeah, it was it was kind of

22
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,840
Speaker 4: overwhelming at first, just to kind of be getting all

23
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 4: that at one time, you know what I mean. But uh,

24
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,760
Speaker 4: but people really enjoyed it, and they see the spirit

25
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,959
Speaker 4: of what we made and you know, the love and

26
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,280
Speaker 4: care what we made it, and so I'm just happy

27
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 4: that people enjoying it.

28
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 3: Man.

29
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say that we're kind of

30
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 2: at the the end of the stretch, like where we

31
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 2: must turn the record in somewhere, and it's sort of like,

32
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,399
Speaker 2: kind of after watching the documentary, I was like, hey,

33
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 2: do we have to give this to.

34
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:42,919
Speaker 1: A major label?

35
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:48,440
Speaker 3: Like come on, come on, come on, come on.

36
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: He preaches this forever.

37
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 2: I was going to say that we're seriously trying to.

38
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,919
Speaker 2: I think we're considering, you know, taking the training wheels

39
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 2: off and see if we can do this for depth.

40
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 2: I mean, technically, yes, we owe def jam another record,

41
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 2: but it's also like it's been ten years and there's

42
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 2: a whole nother ministration there, so you know, it's not

43
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 2: like I think they're crying, like damn it.

44
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. When we were.

45
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,639
Speaker 2: Last there working on How I Got Over, there was

46
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,320
Speaker 2: an executive in the studio with us, and he was

47
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,639
Speaker 2: talking shit about us, thinking that Tarik was like one

48
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,560
Speaker 2: of the staff at Electric Ladies Studios.

49
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what they look like. I don't know

50
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,560
Speaker 1: the album.

51
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 2: Just fucking hearing ship Manek's like, Yo, I'm in this

52
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 2: studio with you.

53
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: He was, Oh, I'm sorry. I thought, Oh damn, I

54
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 1: thought he worked here.

55
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 3: So y'all institution, Man, I love to see it. That'll

56
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:46,400
Speaker 3: be dope.

57
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll say that you definitely planned to see

58
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 2: in that to see if we can do this on

59
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 2: our own bill.

60
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 1: What's up man? All of our lives?

61
00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 5: Like, I'm great. I was just thinking about what I

62
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 5: learned from the Little Brother documentary is do whatever the

63
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 5: fuck you want and be.

64
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 1: Really good at it.

65
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 5: Like that's the best piece of advice, Like don't succume

66
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,919
Speaker 5: to anybody else's wants. Just do you and be true

67
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,639
Speaker 5: to your art, like no Ship and I we all

68
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,840
Speaker 5: make art here, but like to be that true to

69
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 5: it and like honest about it is really cool. And

70
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,280
Speaker 5: that's what I learned, amongst other things about other certain people.

71
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 5: That's what I learned from the Little Brother documentary.

72
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 1: I loved it.

73
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 2: I would love to say that you're like your JMI

74
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 2: Jazz recording offices, Steve, but that's how that's how official

75
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 2: it looks right now. So I don't know what's going on,

76
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 2: Like you got your own merch now your own bags.

77
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 3: Like, oh you saw that.

78
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're doing well JMI Recordings dot com. Yeah, little

79
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 6: jazz label here and Yo, Steve, I want to.

80
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 4: Tell you too, Bro, I bought I finally broke down

81
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 4: and bought a turntable and I listened to like all

82
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 4: like the records that you've given. Bro, they sound amazing, man,

83
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 4: like amazing, Like they sound great on vinyl.

84
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 3: So now y'all are doing a great job, Bro. This

85
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,560
Speaker 3: ship is the shit is dope. The records really great.

86
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 6: Thank you so much. I'll send you. I'll fill you

87
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 6: in on what you don't have.

88
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean cops, I mean the link.

89
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 7: You know.

90
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 3: It takes money.

91
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 5: He makes, he makes house calls. He came to Hoboken

92
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,880
Speaker 5: and delivered me records. That happens, Damn I have to ask.

93
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,560
Speaker 1: Damn. Meanwhile, Steve, I live in the same building.

94
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 2: I find myself stealing my own product anyway, So let's

95
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 2: get to it. I will say I love a good

96
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 2: transformation story, the artistic metamorphosis or what we call uh

97
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 2: departure albums. I've even taught about departure albums at NY

98
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 2: you were a few semesters for those not hip to

99
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,600
Speaker 2: the term. You know, departure album is basically like the

100
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,599
Speaker 2: one album you can and that doesn't sound like what

101
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 2: you represented when you first came in the door. I

102
00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 2: mean there's there's some legiti metamorphosis, like artists like and

103
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 2: grow eventually. I guess the most famous departure album would

104
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 2: be right going on? Well, no, I was going to

105
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,200
Speaker 2: say Sergeant Pepper's was the very first one, because the

106
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,840
Speaker 2: Beatles wanted to kill the Beatles or the idea of

107
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,120
Speaker 2: the mop tops and teeny boppers and never tour again,

108
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 2: and then that backfired and actually made them more famous

109
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,440
Speaker 2: and then caused them to implode. But even that was

110
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 2: inspired by a departure record, which I guess you could

111
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,359
Speaker 2: say pet Sounds by the Beach Boys as that, But

112
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 2: I mean there's millions of them.

113
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,000
Speaker 3: There's Thinker Life of Plants.

114
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Secret Life of Plants, right going on? Kid A

115
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,720
Speaker 2: Grace land Light, Yeah, oh Rave Light?

116
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:39,599
Speaker 7: Uh huh?

117
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 1: Actually was she trend hoping or was that really?

118
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 3: You know? It was it was a departure from what

119
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 3: came before.

120
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,039
Speaker 1: I'll say that, right, right, she wasn't popped.

121
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,640
Speaker 2: Okay, you're right, but I mean, well, awaken my love,

122
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 2: Ata waits and heartbreaks for hip hop, Paul's benef there

123
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,360
Speaker 2: you go, yeah, bitch brewe dirty mind. So it's all there.

124
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 3: Did the roots of a departure album?

125
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,479
Speaker 1: What phrenology or something? It's hard to say.

126
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,560
Speaker 2: I mean, phrenology wasn't more an excuse to do something

127
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 2: different than I realized, Like how slow I was listening

128
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 2: to The Roots Come Alive and like shit was like slow,

129
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,719
Speaker 2: but also doing the Roots Come Alive? Like I was

130
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 2: at my physical heaviest at like four hundred plus pounds,

131
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,039
Speaker 2: and I had lost weight for Phrenology, and suddenly I

132
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 2: felt like I wanted to be more energetic. So and

133
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 2: then it became like, let's just do what we're not

134
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 2: supposed to do. So it's sort of a departure record.

135
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,039
Speaker 2: But time will tell if I was just you know,

136
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 2: not willing to face the keep the things fall apart

137
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 2: thing alive? I don't know, but I will say that

138
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,479
Speaker 2: our Guest Today has been a long time favorite of

139
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,279
Speaker 2: mine since her two thousand and six debut, and shortly

140
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 2: there after I was fortunate enough to, I guess a

141
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 2: year later work on work with her on Al Green's

142
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,080
Speaker 2: Laid Down album, and then a year after that we

143
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 2: worked on her sophomore album, To See, And you know,

144
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,560
Speaker 2: I kind of thought I had her completely figure it out,

145
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 2: and nothing prepared me for her fourth record. I'll just

146
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,640
Speaker 2: say that that much quick backstory. I guess our guest

147
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,160
Speaker 2: and I reconnected in the summer of twenty twenty three.

148
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 2: She give me a copy of the record. She did

149
00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 2: it so casually that two days went by before I

150
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 2: remember that, OHI the record, let me peep and see

151
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 2: what's up, And.

152
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,080
Speaker 1: You know, it was kind of gobsmack.

153
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 2: And again, I'm trying to avoid typical questlove hyper bowl

154
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 2: when it comes to my excitement for something. But you know,

155
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 2: it's been a minute that I've listened to a complete

156
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,560
Speaker 2: album on repeat over again by an artist not named Salt,

157
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 2: and I will to say that there's a lot to

158
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 2: unpack here. Normally I want to go through the whole,

159
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 2: you know, journey of an artist's life, but I'm so

160
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 2: obsessed with this record. I have so many questions. I

161
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 2: might have to do this interview backwards. But yeah, for me,

162
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,240
Speaker 2: Black Rainbows is one of my favorite records of the year,

163
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 2: and I'm really really excited to have a conversation with

164
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 2: our guest today, Krinn Belly Ray One Quest Love Supreme.

165
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 7: Welcome, Heydan, Thanks so much. Thanks for that introduction.

166
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 2: Wait let me see, Oh god, okay, twelve minutes. We're

167
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,200
Speaker 2: not bad. Normally I don't even get to the guest

168
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 2: until twenty seven minutes. All right, and it's time to go.

169
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Karin, thank you. So right now

170
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,719
Speaker 2: you are in You're in Connecticut right now?

171
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 7: Correct, right now, I'm in New York, so I may

172
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 7: or may not be getting up to Connecticut today. It

173
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 7: depends as loads of snow on the road. So I

174
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 7: always try and make a show like I'm happy to

175
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,559
Speaker 7: be there, and if only twenty people come, then we're

176
00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 7: still going to have a good time. But we'll see

177
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,359
Speaker 7: what the he says. I hate cancel shows. It's so disappointing,

178
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 7: you know. I hate to be a fan and have

179
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,360
Speaker 7: a council show, and I've been to so many shows

180
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,960
Speaker 7: where nobody else could make it. You know, then you

181
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,080
Speaker 7: feel like you're the lucky one hundred people who brave

182
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 7: the storm or whatever. So yeah, hopefully we'll be up there.

183
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 2: And when someone cancels on you, okay, let me get

184
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,439
Speaker 2: out my feelings anyway. Yeah, I hate when artists cancel

185
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,960
Speaker 2: on people. Well, first of all, I'm curious for this

186
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,480
Speaker 2: particular tour, how many musicians are you with because this

187
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 2: album is so sprawling in terms of its I mean,

188
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 2: you literally cover every damn near every genre of music.

189
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,719
Speaker 2: And you know, my obsession with it was how is

190
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,599
Speaker 2: she going to pull this off live? What is the

191
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 2: makeup of the band that you're with on tour?

192
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,559
Speaker 7: The lineup, there's just six of us in the band.

193
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 7: So there is Melanie Charles who's singing and she's playing

194
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 7: flute and she's playing percushion, and I'm singing and playing guitar,

195
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 7: electric guitar and some percussion stuff. Aaron Barnette is playing

196
00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 7: tenor saxophone. Kyle Bolden is playing electric guitar, who I

197
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,079
Speaker 7: absolutely love. I've wanted to work with him for a

198
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,880
Speaker 7: long time. He plays with Stevie Wonder and we're lucky

199
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 7: that Stevie's in the studio right now, so it's like

200
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,880
Speaker 7: entice Kyle. So yeah, so's he's kind of like three people,

201
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,440
Speaker 7: you know. He plays just one guitar. He showed me

202
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,440
Speaker 7: his guitar the other day. It folds in half and

203
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,800
Speaker 7: packs in a backpack, you know, like some guitars. Really

204
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,679
Speaker 7: it has to be this and it has to be

205
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 7: this wood that's maple and cherry and seasoned. And he's

206
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 7: just like it folds and half, he puts it in

207
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,559
Speaker 7: his backpack. He's playing one guitar through the whole show

208
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,079
Speaker 7: the string you know, it falls forward and the strings everything.

209
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,080
Speaker 7: It's a portable guitar that it's playing right now and

210
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 7: he can cover. He's playing like wailing electric guitar. He's

211
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 7: playing like really pretty Curtis Mayfield, and he just does

212
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 7: it all. It's just in the spring, you know. So

213
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,880
Speaker 7: he's amazing. And then I'm playing with Stephen Brown. He's

214
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,319
Speaker 7: my long time collaborator and he has a massive setup.

215
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 7: So he has a few keyboards. He's playing bass sometimes

216
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 7: with the with organ pedals that he has underneath the

217
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 7: underneath the keyboards, he's playing based with his feet a

218
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 7: lot of times, or sometimes he's playing synth bas sometimes

219
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 7: he's playing electric bass. Look on New York Transit Queen.

220
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,680
Speaker 7: He gets up from the keyboards and he has a

221
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,440
Speaker 7: whole row on top of we've taken spring tanks, and

222
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,440
Speaker 7: we've taken headles, we've taken modular synths, so everything that

223
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 7: he's doing on stage sort of all of the sends

224
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 7: from stage are going into that rig so that he

225
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 7: can affect it in real time, so that he can,

226
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 7: you know, if we're singing and we wanted to get

227
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,959
Speaker 7: like trippy and transcendent, he can put in his delays

228
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 7: and reverbs and backwards things and octavizers and then that's

229
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,200
Speaker 7: going out to front of house. So yeah, we just

230
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 7: we just put it all on a plane yesterday. I

231
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,080
Speaker 7: think are over oversize or whatever. You know, we have

232
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,960
Speaker 7: to pay over it. She was like like, what, we

233
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,679
Speaker 7: can't leave any of this shit behind. You know, it's

234
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 7: just like boxes and boxes and stuff. But it's worth

235
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,040
Speaker 7: it because I like to be able to make this

236
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:08,480
Speaker 7: six more expensive sound.

237
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

238
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 2: You know, I'm also known for completely wild outtakes, and

239
00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,559
Speaker 2: of which I don't want to get canceled, so I'll

240
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,240
Speaker 2: I'll say the majority of them behind, but I will

241
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 2: say the safest one of my wild outtakes was I

242
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,200
Speaker 2: think maybe.

243
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,440
Speaker 1: This was ideally.

244
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,320
Speaker 2: The album I thought I was making with Electric Circus

245
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 2: where you know, where you want to show a wide

246
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:46,199
Speaker 2: range of styles but not appear to be too you know,

247
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 2: over eager or enthusiastic with it, like it just sounds natural.

248
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 2: And then you know, by the third listen, I realized

249
00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,720
Speaker 2: that like you're literally covering you're covering so much territory.

250
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 2: Like you go from literally from this, uh, you know,

251
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 2: some shit goes completely hardcore to you know, then you

252
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 2: go after futurists and you do this nineties Riot Girls

253
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 2: throwback thing, and then like with the last song before

254
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 2: the Throne, like it's almost like like you transport it

255
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,920
Speaker 2: back to an Alice Coltrane kind of outtake, and the

256
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 2: thing one is like I was hoping the song was

257
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,319
Speaker 2: gonna be seventeen minutes like an Alice Coltrane song, and

258
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 2: then it cuts off and I'm like, what the fuck?

259
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 3: But that was one of my favorite ones on the

260
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,160
Speaker 3: album too. That's a hard ass. That's a hard that

261
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:38,160
Speaker 3: it flows the album.

262
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 2: That Yeah, it's goddamn and it's can you tell me

263
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,440
Speaker 2: just from soup to nuts how you put it together?

264
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,840
Speaker 2: Because in my mind it's so every song is so unique.

265
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 2: I think if making it in real time, I wouldn't

266
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 2: know how you had seen it as cohesive, but yet

267
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,679
Speaker 2: together it feels cohesive.

268
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 1: Can can you just describe to us the process.

269
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 7: I'm glad that it feels like one thing, and it

270
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,559
Speaker 7: felt like one thing to me because it was all

271
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,199
Speaker 7: driven by this obsession, and it was driven by this

272
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,560
Speaker 7: subsession with this building. I had been on a friend's board.

273
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,600
Speaker 7: It was like a it was a Pinterest board that

274
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,760
Speaker 7: she had she called Jamala John's and she's kind of

275
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,400
Speaker 7: a arc curator. I think in the early days of Pinterest,

276
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 7: it wasn't just like this is a cute hairstyle, but

277
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 7: some people were using it like a magazine, you know.

278
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,720
Speaker 7: So there they were using they would put up a

279
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 7: picture and then they were just right tons and tons.

280
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,280
Speaker 7: And she had this board called Artists and their Creatives

281
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 7: and their Workplaces. So she had Carra Walker arranging her silhouettes.

282
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 7: She had a Picasso painting with light, and she had

283
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 7: this photograph of this artist, this black artist, contemporary artist,

284
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 7: this man, and he was sort of staring out of

285
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 7: the frame with this peacefuls of bold expression and behind

286
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 7: him was this weird contemporary art that I didn't understand,

287
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 7: you know, A pile of bricks on the floor, this

288
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 7: shaggy goat instead of legs, it had the spindles and

289
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,200
Speaker 7: it was going around on a circular track. And then

290
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 7: there was a big shop for a big sign for

291
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 7: a shop, Harold's Chicken Shop in Chicago, with like a

292
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 7: chef chasing after a chicken with a meat leaver. And

293
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,640
Speaker 7: he was just looking out like he was represented by

294
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 7: white Cuban. He was looking at the frame like, yeah,

295
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 7: this is my art, you know. And I thought, who

296
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 7: is this? I don't know contemporary art. Who's this man specifically,

297
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 7: who's this black man who's not working in figurative art?

298
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 3: Right?

299
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,680
Speaker 7: It's not paintings of people, it's not drawings of people,

300
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 7: it's not photographs. It's this stuff. And I found out

301
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 7: he was called theaster Gates. And then when I did

302
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 7: some research, I found out that part of his practice

303
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,160
Speaker 7: is saving these buildings on the South side of Chicago.

304
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 7: You know, he lives in the South Side of Chicago.

305
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,800
Speaker 7: He's watched many buildings just get torn down by the city,

306
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 7: you know, on the Stoney Island where this building is

307
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,280
Speaker 7: used to have big theaters, you know, really important theaters

308
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,600
Speaker 7: for black music, and just over the years have been

309
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 7: torn down one by one, so I mean Chicago's architectural masterpieces.

310
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,680
Speaker 7: But then when you get to the south side, there's

311
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,080
Speaker 7: these holes, dise these gaps, and it's a kind of

312
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,880
Speaker 7: erasure of the history of the place and of the presence,

313
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 7: the black presence in the place. And so he saw

314
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 7: this bank. It's one hundred year old bank and had

315
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 7: been slated for demolition for a long time. It's going

316
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 7: to be pulled down by the city. The basement was underwater,

317
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,720
Speaker 7: but it's this beautiful bank with these columns outside, and

318
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 7: it's like a big square sort of Greeco Roman building

319
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 7: on Stoney Island. And he decided he was going to

320
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,200
Speaker 7: save it, and so he bought it for one dollar

321
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 7: from the government, and he saved four million dollars by

322
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 7: selling his own art to transform this bank. So it

323
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 7: doesn't have art in anymore, it doesn't have any money in.

324
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 7: He's saved it by filling it with art archives and

325
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 7: historical archives. So it has twenty six thousand books that

326
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 7: were given to the Johnson Publishing Company, to the Johnson

327
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,600
Speaker 7: Publishing Company who made Ebony magazine, Jet magazine, the Egro Digest,

328
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,200
Speaker 7: So from nineteen forty three, you know, if you wrote

329
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:14,119
Speaker 7: a book in anything to do with black space, architecture, politics, dance, entertainment,

330
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 7: recipe books, yearbooks. If you wrote PhDs and you wanted

331
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,240
Speaker 7: the Johnsons to review it and include it in their publication,

332
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,160
Speaker 7: you would send it to the Johnson's. So twenty six

333
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 7: thousand of these books you know, some of them we

334
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,439
Speaker 7: know and the familiar, some of them super rare books.

335
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,720
Speaker 7: It's got those. It's got all of Frankie Knuckles records.

336
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,159
Speaker 7: And when Frankie Nuckles passed away, his entire record collection

337
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 7: was given to the Stony Island Arts Bank, and it

338
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 7: also has upstairs on the second floor these problematic objects

339
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 7: from America's past, the mammy jars, the postcards depicting racial violence,

340
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 7: newspaper articles since the eighteen hundreds, advertising copy, signage, objects

341
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:04,080
Speaker 7: for the home, photographs that were collected by this Black

342
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 7: and Chinese banker called Ed Williams, who would go to

343
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 7: these yard sales and flea markets and see these objects

344
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 7: and think, you know, who wants who's collecting these things?

345
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 7: Who wants to continue to have these things in the home.

346
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 7: So he would buy them to take them out of

347
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,199
Speaker 7: circulation and put them in boxes in his house, and

348
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,679
Speaker 7: once he had amassed forty thousand of these objects, his

349
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 7: kids were out, can we get it's kind of intense

350
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 7: to be around this stuff. Can we get this out?

351
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 7: So he gave that, he donated it to the Rebuilt Foundation.

352
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 7: So the Arts Bank is contemporary art on the walls,

353
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 7: it has exhibitions. Then it's these historic objects, the Frankie Knuckles,

354
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 7: it's all the slides from the University of Chicago, the

355
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,240
Speaker 7: glass slides from when people give talk, so you know,

356
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 7: or all of history that had been photographed for the

357
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 7: University of Chicago. And then these twenty six thousand books.

358
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 7: So when I saw the work that THEASTA was doing,

359
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,199
Speaker 7: I thought, I want to get in that bank. I

360
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 7: just want to be there. I just want to look around.

361
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 7: I want to And we managed to connect with him.

362
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 7: I was on tour, he came to the show. He

363
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 7: met up with me afterwards, and I was just like, Ah,

364
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 7: I'm so excited to meet you. Because you're a visual artist,

365
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 7: because you also have a band called the Black Months

366
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 7: of Mississippi, because you're a saramacist, which I love ceramics,

367
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 7: because he trained in Japan, and because he's collecting these

368
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 7: objects and because he's saving all these buildings in the

369
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 7: South side of Chicago. He has a social practice. I

370
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,440
Speaker 7: just I was really excited to meet him, and I said,

371
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 7: I really wish you'd come to the bank, but I'm

372
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 7: leaving town at like eight am tomorrow morning. And he said,

373
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 7: I'm also leaving town tomorrow because I'm going to President

374
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 7: Obama's fiftieth birthday party. And I was like, Oh, okay,

375
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 7: this is this is this guy is. So we opened

376
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 7: the bank early for us and I went to it,

377
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 7: and once I opened those doors, I've just sort of

378
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 7: blown away by the building, the side of the building,

379
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:59,399
Speaker 7: the library, the double height cube, the just the amount

380
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 7: of you know, every single drawer you opened it just

381
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 7: like songs from slavery times, newspapers, curling newspapers from eighteen forties,

382
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 7: print adverts from the thirties, tins of beauty products, you know,

383
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 7: just stuff and stuff and every corner and every just

384
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 7: the arrangement of it. And the ASTA said, oh, you

385
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 7: know you have to you have to do a show

386
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 7: in it, and straight away I sort of flashed on

387
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 7: the music that I had made to this point and

388
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 7: felt like this is a new vessel. Nothing that I

389
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,359
Speaker 7: have made sort of fits in this space. It's a

390
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 7: different kind of response that's needed. But then when I left,

391
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 7: all I could think about was the things that I

392
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 7: had seen. You know, he had this sculpture in the corner,

393
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 7: and I said, oh, who did that? He said, it's

394
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,239
Speaker 7: one of mine. And it looked like it had been

395
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 7: made from wood that had maybe had the paint stripped off.

396
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 7: There was a certain amount of violence to it. And

397
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 7: I said, oh, you know, what is it? And he said,

398
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 7: it's a sculpture I made. It's from the floorboards from

399
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,360
Speaker 7: an abandoned police station in Chicago. And as soon as

400
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 7: he said that, I immediately was thinking about the floorboards.

401
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 7: What are the floorboards seen? You know, so often in

402
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 7: history the objects are the witnesses to what's happened. They're

403
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 7: the things that can't speak, but they're the things that

404
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 7: see everything. The floor in the police station, the telephone

405
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 7: in the police station, the car, the rearview mirror. They

406
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 7: are the things that really are holding the truth. And

407
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 7: so when I was on tour, you know, I mean,

408
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 7: my head was in the tour, but at the same time,

409
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 7: I'd be lying on my tour bos bed and I'd

410
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 7: be just writing poems about things that I've seen. You know,

411
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 7: I wrote this poem called you who have walked These

412
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 7: floors in fear. I was thinking about this floorboard. It

413
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 7: was after the death of Sandra Bland, So I was

414
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 7: thinking about, you know, who knows truth? In some cases

415
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 7: it's a person. In some cases that person is unwilling

416
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 7: to to to express what has really happened in the situation.

417
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 7: But all that not all the physical objects they know.

418
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 7: And I just thought, I want to get back to

419
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 7: that bank. I want to open murderers. I want to

420
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 7: touch more stuff. And every time I touched something, I

421
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 7: felt like it was it's old stuff, but it's fisiing

422
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 7: with a kind of contemporary, real life things happening in

423
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 7: the Molecule's story. So really with the writing of the record,

424
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 7: you know, I went back for a two week residency.

425
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 7: Was stayed in the South Side of Chicago. I mean,

426
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 7: I'm from the UK, but you guys know Chicago, Chicago

427
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 7: has its huge challenges, you know. Yeah, so so that

428
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 7: was an eye opener. You know, we didn't have a

429
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 7: car there, and we said, oh, we'll just you know,

430
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 7: we're staying so nearby, we'll just walk around. They're like,

431
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 7: oh no, you can't walk around. You can't walk around,

432
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 7: you know. So we walked to the place where we

433
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 7: hide the car, and on a bus shelter there was

434
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 7: an advert for for what you could do if you

435
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 7: wanted to needed to give up your child in the

436
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 7: first thirty days of it life, you know, it was

437
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 7: a list of things. It said, all you need to

438
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 7: do is wrap it in a clean towel. It has

439
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 7: to be in the first thirty days of its life.

440
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 7: You could take it to a fire station where you

441
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 7: could drop it at this particular school or that particular hospital.

442
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 7: You can give information or you can have no questions asked.

443
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 7: And it was particularly poignant that it was a bushshelter

444
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 7: because of course that's where so many children that couldn't

445
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 7: be looked after have been left by parents that couldn't

446
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 7: look after the children. So, you know, just sort of walking,

447
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 7: I thought, this is what this area, this is what

448
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 7: this area is. And I thought about the importance of

449
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 7: a building like this which talks about the history of

450
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 7: the area and just about the history of the people

451
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 7: and how the situation is as it is now and

452
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 7: it hasn't always been the way it is, and it

453
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 7: won't always be the way it is. But how art

454
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 7: is a place of it's a new space, it's a

455
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 7: physical space. It's a place where people have the opportunity

456
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 7: to imagine something different. So I was ever two weeks.

457
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 7: I wrote some songs there, I was, I was home,

458
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 7: I was back and forth. I mean, this record was

459
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 7: sort of seven years coming together, you know. So sometimes

460
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 7: I was making music in the place we set up

461
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 7: a studio and one of the buildings next the bank,

462
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 7: and all the songs on the record are inspired inspired

463
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 7: by particular objects in the bank or groups of objects

464
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 7: or events in the bank. And that to me wasn't

465
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 7: my sort of golden thread when I was making it.

466
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 7: And then to me, whatever the style was, it didn't matter.

467
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 7: It just whatever the music was, it just kind of

468
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 7: bounced off the objects. So it's all about the objects,

469
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 7: and that the tight remit was it has to be

470
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 7: in response to these objects. And it just became my obsession.

471
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 7: I felt like everywhere I looked there was a story

472
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 7: or a photo or something about Chicago, something about the

473
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 7: South Side.

474
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: What comes to you first? Do the words come first

475
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: or does the music come first? Because there's some songs

476
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: in which he will follow me with his eyes, which

477
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: like specifically melodically, and your words are depending on whatever

478
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 2: chords being played. And it's not a circular song that

479
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: it's looping. It's just kind of gone linear into and

480
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: it wors into a whole nother song by the end

481
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 2: of it. So like what comes first for you? Like

482
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 2: are the words hitting you first and then you find

483
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: music to it? Or does the music come first?

484
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 7: I think in that situation, and he will follow you

485
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 7: with his eyes. I had found this tin of a

486
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 7: beauty product. It was by this company called Valmar, and

487
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 7: it was set up in Chicago in nineteen twenty six.

488
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 7: And all the illustrations I found to be really beautiful,

489
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 7: really elegant, and they were done by this artist, this

490
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 7: black artist called Charles Dawson who came. He was a

491
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 7: very well known artist in his time, and they were

492
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 7: elegant and they were beautiful, and there was also all

493
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 7: this romance surrounding Valmore. You know the copy in the adverts.

494
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 7: So if you saw an advert for valve Or it

495
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 7: might see things like his eyes will follow you across

496
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 7: the room, or the perfume. The perfumes were called things

497
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 7: like follow me boy, or look me over everything had

498
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 7: this romance and this glamour. So I was kind of interested,

499
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 7: what's this beauty? You know, what's his company? And I

500
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 7: found out that it was sold door to door, you know,

501
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 7: so like Avon, they were knock on the door with

502
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 7: this big basket of stuff. And I found that there

503
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 7: was targeted mostly at black men and women of course

504
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 7: the era. Looking through the products, there's lots of perfumes,

505
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 7: there's lots of moisturizers and shampoos and stuff, but there's

506
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 7: a lot of hair straightening products, skin lightning products, you know,

507
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 7: white rose cold cream, and you know, worked straight away

508
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 7: the adverts to say things like, don't you want to

509
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 7: help yourself to love unhappiness? You know, all of this

510
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 7: is just away from you if you don't just take

511
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 7: if you take your skin a few shades.

512
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: Lighter, that's right, they ran at the end.

513
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I was going to say, because upon first listening,

514
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: I was like, I was like, Wow, this might be

515
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: her best vocal performance because and then the second time

516
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, maybe she's singing in a character.

517
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 2: And then I realized by the end, I mean, I

518
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: don't know if it's if it's more of an angry

519
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: rent or more just a defiant thing about it. But

520
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: I realized that that must be the start. I didn't

521
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 2: know the history behind the song, but I love the

522
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: way that you singing character in the beginning, And yeah.

523
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 7: I wanted to get into that sort of fifty space,

524
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 7: and I was thinking about fifties medicated domestic femininity in America. Okay,

525
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 7: so you've got all the things you meant to need.

526
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 7: You've got your vacuum cleaner, and you've got your washing machine,

527
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 7: you've got your refrigerator. So as a woman, your life

528
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 7: is not difficult anymore. You know, you've got these appliances

529
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 7: and you shouldn't complain, and you're in the home, and

530
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 7: if things feel difficult, there's always a tople that you

531
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 7: can take from the doctors, just to take the edge

532
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 7: of things. And then but then, you know, imagining someone

533
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 7: coming to your door with these products, there's a kind

534
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 7: of femininity is already this narrow, and then for black

535
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 7: women it's it's even more narrow because the beauty is

536
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 7: white aligned at this point. You know, so you've got

537
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 7: to do all the women's stuff, and then you've got

538
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 7: to do the stuff to make your natural self augmented

539
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 7: to be accepted, and so in the first half of

540
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 7: the song, the person is definitely under the spell of

541
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 7: how more I did that. I wrote that song in

542
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 7: the in the bank, and I just played I played

543
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 7: it on guitar, you know, I sort of do my

544
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 7: best on my guitar, like I'm not a trained guitar rist.

545
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 7: But I wanted to make it sort of you know,

546
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 7: fifties and dream like, like those kind of chords that

547
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 7: would be in you know, those movies that start whether

548
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 7: the car's winding around the side of a mountain or whatever,

549
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 7: the open top car and it's like there's a glamour

550
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 7: and then halfway through. I wanted to have this kind

551
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 7: of sonic arresting, you know. So when I first wrote that,

552
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 7: that was just like me playing one string.

553
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 8: Dumb, dumb, dumb, you know, my plum red lipstick, my

554
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 8: black hair, kinkin my black skin, gleaming.

555
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 9: You know.

556
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 7: I wanted it to be, as you say, sort of defiant.

557
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 7: You know, I don't it says at the end, I

558
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 7: don't want to leave myself behind, vanishing into a girl

559
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 7: I don't recognize and went after you know, because the

560
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 7: record took me a long time. So one time I

561
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 7: was listening to vocals, I feel like I could bring

562
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 7: more character into this, you know.

563
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 9: I was thinking of like her as a kid, you know,

564
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 9: with her incredbled diction and poise and the movement of

565
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 9: the words and everything so dramatic and elegant and control

566
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 9: that I.

567
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 7: Went to bring some men.

568
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: And so in my excitement, I was making h.

569
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: A quiet sleep playlist the David the album came out,

570
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 2: and so not even thinking about it, I just rushed

571
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: that on the list first.

572
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: It went to sleep.

573
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 7: Anyway up.

574
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: It was like, what the hell of Mira? And I

575
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: was like huh.

576
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I forgot that sometimes coders

577
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: and because you know, in my mind when you're listening

578
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: to it, I'm thinking like, okay, might have a new

579
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: ID track, and that's the next song. I didn't realize

580
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: it was the same song until that person told me, like, dog,

581
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: you woke us up in the middle of the night, Like, yeah,

582
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: it was it wasn't.

583
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 7: There, It wasn't what you thought. Yeah, it's the worst

584
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 7: record for DJs. But I just think my stuf's a

585
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 7: bit like that anyway, sort of like it's bumpy, like

586
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 7: you're just getting into one thing and then there's another thing.

587
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 7: And I don't know if that's my background. It's like

588
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 7: I was a classically trained violinist and then I was

589
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 7: in an indie band when I was fifteen. That was

590
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 7: the music that I loved, you know. I had grown

591
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 7: up with soul music, but India was like my thing

592
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 7: that I found, you know, Rucasol and L seven and

593
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 7: Belly and and I liked. I guess I liked, you know,

594
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 7: women in that music. I like seeing women play guitars.

595
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 7: And I don't know if they weren't shaving their armpits

596
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 7: or they weren't having to wear certain things. They're just

597
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 7: wearing T shirts and the jeans and they're just doing

598
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 7: the thing, and there was a lot of freedom in that.

599
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: Of course, I understand that a lot of your albums

600
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: are also confessional diaries because of lost love and what

601
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: you've gone through in mourning and all that stuff. But

602
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: would you say that this album is more closer to

603
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: your creative heart then say what your debut record was.

604
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 7: Yes, I think this is really close to my creative heart.

605
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 7: And the irony is that I thought it was always

606
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 7: a side project, you know, when I made it, I

607
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 7: was like, it's not going to be my name's not

608
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 7: going to be on it. It's an independent record, it's

609
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 7: not going to be a major label.

610
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 1: Weren't you. No, Mariah's sort of do you know the

611
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: history of the Chick record?

612
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 7: No, I mean, and not until you mentioned you mentioned

613
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 7: it the other day, but I still, I mean, I

614
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 7: haven't heard that record. You sent me some pictures and

615
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 7: I thought, wow, she looks different, but yeah, I think

616
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 7: she's amazing.

617
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mariah did the same thing, like she was this

618
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: recording her real record, but just to have some fun,

619
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: you would, you know, play around, fuck around, doing dinner

620
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: breaks and all that stuff, and then they had enough

621
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: material to make a record. But it was always just

622
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: supposed to be like a joke amongst the band makes

623
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: and you know, and I still maintained that that's Mariah

624
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: Carry's best record because she doesn't care about the outward

625
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: gaze of critics and the record label and keep keeping

626
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: the machinery going, because you know, all the time artists

627
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: tell me, like, especially like in the first ten years

628
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: of my career, it was like, man, y'all gotta label

629
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: that supports y'all. Like and at first, I was like

630
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: a little insulted. He's like, yeah, man, because y'all could

631
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: just do any o shit in your label. Never drop y'all.

632
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: Like I was like, what was that supposed to be?

633
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: You know, like, you know, like y'all don't care about

634
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: hit singles and making money and because success, I'm like

635
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: what the fuck? I was like, No, I just don't

636
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: know what an effective hook.

637
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: Kids.

638
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm doing too much inside baseball. But

639
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: you gotta let me know what was your inspiration behind Earthlings?

640
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: Because I'm obsessed with the effic futurism and all that stuff,

641
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: and like I am too.

642
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 7: You know. I feel my dad had Funk you know,

643
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 7: like p Funk Records when I was little, and Parliament Records,

644
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 7: and I'd look on the back and see these weird cartoons,

645
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 7: you know, if like the women in the booby tops

646
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 7: and the booty shirts and this, and there was all

647
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 7: these stuff about space, and I remember just thinking like

648
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 7: what is this? And definitely when I was a teenager,

649
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 7: I just sort of thought I sort of thought of

650
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 7: it as kind of a bit silly or escapist. And

651
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 7: it was only when I got into my well, probably

652
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 7: you know, ten fifteen years ago that the penny dropped,

653
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 7: you know, and the expansive thing of if someone wants

654
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 7: a pigeonhole as being from here, you have to be

655
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 7: within the system of what it means to be black

656
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 7: in America, and like Sunral, the only way to explain

657
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 7: its actually, I'm not from here, or you think I'm

658
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 7: from here? Do you think I'm like that? Now, I'm

659
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 7: not even from this planet, you know. And I loved

660
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 7: that when I went back to that music, the idea

661
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 7: that there's another space and alternative space that lives outside

662
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 7: of catalysm and white supremacy, and that this band is

663
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 7: from there and they're going to take you there and

664
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 7: all you have to do is get on board the mothership.

665
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 7: And so the philosophy of it, which I had missed

666
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 7: because I was too busy just sort of enjoying the

667
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 7: groove of the music, you know, that was right there.

668
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 7: And so I mean, there's a really good affort futuristic

669
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 7: film showing in the bank when I was there, and

670
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 7: you know, I was thinking saying all these things together

671
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 7: that the main thing was the inspiration behind that was

672
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 7: the these different searches for utopia that I read about

673
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 7: in the bank. You know, there was a conversation bouncing

674
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 7: back and forwards between the black thinkers from I guess that,

675
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 7: you know, eighteen tens onwards the classic two positions. You

676
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 7: could call it a Martin Luther King versus early Malcolm X,

677
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 7: you know, integrationist versus separatist position. You know, we find

678
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 7: ourselves to be here outside of Africa, in this country,

679
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 7: in these places which are intolerant of us. What do

680
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 7: we do? Do we find allies and make a new community.

681
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 7: Do we become part of everyone, we all each other's

682
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 7: brothers and sisters like a Martin Luther King position? Or

683
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 7: is there do we recognize the aggression and turn inwards

684
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 7: and turn away from the place where we find ourselves

685
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 7: to be. And whether it's a Marcus Garvey going back

686
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 7: to Africa, or whether it's a more of a spiritual

687
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 7: separatist community where you're still in America, but you have

688
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 7: your own commune and you have your own rules and laws,

689
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 7: or whether it's a community of that's exclusive in terms

690
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 7: of who you're socialized with.

691
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: You know.

692
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 7: So I would see these ideas going back and forth

693
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 7: in the bank all the way through history, people trying

694
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 7: to work it out. How do we live now outside

695
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 7: of Africa in this place which is not entirely welcoming.

696
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 7: And so I've thought a lot about these utopias that

697
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 7: have been attempted. You know that all black towns of

698
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 7: the West, and those of them that were successful, and

699
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 7: those of those that weren't successful or were like a

700
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 7: green wood that was eventually firebombed, you know, the first

701
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 7: incidence of fire bombing on American soil. So I thought

702
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 7: about those, like, what is it to yearn for utopia?

703
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 7: Try for perfection? It always will fail. And yet that's

704
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 7: the direction, that's what all communities are looking for. Peace, love, freedom.

705
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 7: And I was blown away by Missus Johnson using the

706
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 7: Ebony fashion fair, and the Black panthers would say to her,

707
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 7: why are you bringing it clothes? You know this is

708
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 7: a bourgeoise thing. You're bringing clothes from France to put

709
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 7: on the back of black models to parade around the

710
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 7: town halls and the city halls for local black maids

711
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 7: to see. Like what you're doing. Apart from the fact

712
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 7: they were raising millions of dollars for the historical black

713
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 7: universities and colleges, Missus Johnson was saying, it's important for

714
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 7: people to see themselves reflected on this cat walk. It's

715
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 7: important for women to see this elegance, see this dream,

716
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 7: see this art, see this creativity. It's like, what do

717
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 7: we want on the other side of the struggle? Struggles

718
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 7: meant to end at some point, and then you're meant

719
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 7: to be, you know, eating pineapple in the sun, digging

720
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 7: your garden to live and finding work, but also time

721
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 7: to enjoy yourself. You know, that's the world we're trying

722
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 7: to build. We're not constantly so much in a struggle

723
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 7: that we're imagining will never end. And so I guess

724
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 7: the song Earth Things is about a non human person

725
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 7: sort of looking in on us and seeing how easy

726
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 7: it would be to reset our world, which causes a

727
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 7: super naive position. But that was the position that I

728
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 7: took from looking at these attempts at utopious of the effort,

729
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 7: the attempt, the hope, the audacity of it is the

730
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 7: only place to start.

731
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: Or I'm curious to how the outside of America, like

732
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: the British press, has received this record, And you know,

733
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: I think it's really curious that you and interesting that

734
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: you chose Chicago as your base creative hub. You know,

735
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: I think, if anything, even Americans and myself I might

736
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: be guilty of this as well. Like there's so much

737
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: propaganda talk about Chicago, like right now, you know, the

738
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: hashtag what about Chicago is a kind of go to.

739
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: Right wing yeah term of.

740
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: You know, they're so violent and uncultured over there that

741
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: most people I know are definitely afraid to even visit

742
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 2: Chicago just because of what they heard, you know, propaganda wise.

743
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 1: But is there not any place in the UK.

744
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: That has their own rich cultural stories that you could

745
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: have pulled from? Because I find it very interesting that

746
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: that you had to come, you know, five thousand miles

747
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: across the Pound, you know, to find this wealth of inspiration.

748
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 7: I think it's a really good point. I think the

749
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 7: holders of archive is a really interesting thing in America

750
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 7: versus the UK. So I'd say American history and archive

751
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 7: seems to be I mean, you have obviously the Smithsonian,

752
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 7: which is a reasonably new museum that holds all this

753
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 7: black history and archive. But it seems like a lot

754
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 7: of black archive in this country is held by private

755
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 7: individuals or private foundations that have come from corporations. America

756
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 7: is still in its move of you know, you've got

757
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 7: the Mellon Foundation, you've got the Ford Foundation, organizations that

758
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 7: made lots of wealth through capitalism that are now sort

759
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 7: of giving back, and it shows their brains and it

760
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 7: sort of legitimizes them to a certain extent, and they

761
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 7: it shows that they are invested in people's history and

762
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 7: holding history. I think in the UK that period certainly

763
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 7: happened during the Industrial Revolution, where we had massively wealthy

764
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 7: industrialists in the eighteen thirties, eighteen forties, eighteen fifties, and

765
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 7: they then invested in people in our you know, they

766
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 7: made their own towns, they had fair comparatively fair places

767
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 7: and safe places for workers. But then the state took

768
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 7: over in looking after history and archive, which is probably

769
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 7: the right place for these things if the state is interested.

770
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 7: But at the moment the conservative government that we have now,

771
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 7: which is more of a right wing government, there just

772
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 7: hasn't been the investment in black stories and black archives.

773
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 7: So there are black archives that aren't open to the

774
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 7: public and that you would need maybe a research a

775
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 7: qualification or sort of invitation to go and look at.

776
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 7: But also so much of the work is not valued

777
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 7: or lost or it's lost. I mean, I think specifically

778
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 7: of the wind rush incident, that happened a few years

779
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 7: ago where people like my dad's generation. The black people

780
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 7: in England are either from Africa and have come in

781
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 7: the last ten twenty thirty forty years, or their Caribbeans,

782
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 7: and they were invited by the government after the Second

783
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 7: World War because so many men had died, so the

784
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 7: UK needed people on the trains, people on the buses,

785
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 7: they needed women in the hospitals as nurses, so an

786
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 7: invitation went out to the colonies, you know, they're still

787
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 7: owned by Britain, like Saint KITT's where my dad's from,

788
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 7: you know, please come and help the motherland. And these

789
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 7: people felt like England was their home. You know, my

790
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 7: dad knew more about the counties and rivers of England,

791
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 7: you know then he even knew about Saint Kitts. It

792
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 7: was taught. This information was taught in tandem. So the

793
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 7: Caribbeans came, and a lot of them came as children.

794
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 7: You know, they had that passport and you would think

795
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 7: the government's held records on who was in the country

796
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 7: and who wasn't. But a few years ago there was

797
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 7: this big scandal where Caribbeans were leaving their country that

798
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 7: they'd lived in for fifty years sixty years moved for

799
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 7: a family wedding, trying to get back in the country,

800
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 7: and the UK said, sorry, we don't have any record

801
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 7: of you.

802
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

803
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 7: And it turned out they'd just lost all these people's passports.

804
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 7: People had come to UK's children. So you've got people

805
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 7: who are trying to get cancer care and they say, oh,

806
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 7: you're not registered to live here. They say, I've lived

807
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 7: here for fifty years, I've been married here, have raised

808
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 7: my children, I've got grandchildren in the UK. They say, sorry,

809
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 7: you have to go back to Jamaica. So I think

810
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 7: the UK government is not good at holding even the

811
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 7: the citizenship and passports of these black people that they

812
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 7: just lost. There was just no other explanation. It was

813
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 7: just like sorry, we last year passports. But I don't

814
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 7: think there was even a wide public apology. So I

815
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 7: think in terms of the Black stories, I think they

816
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 7: live in literature. You know, I live in Leeds with

817
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 7: people Tree Press, that's the biggest publisher of Caribbean literature

818
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 7: outside the Caribbean, so I know these Caribbean stories. I

819
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 7: think what I felt in encountering the bank was just

820
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 7: this is me with my own lens and my own

821
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 7: prejudices as a woman from the UK, as someone who

822
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 7: has African heritage through my dad's Caribbean side, but also

823
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 7: you know, my mum is white as well, like all

824
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 7: these I was just arriving as myself viewing all this

825
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 7: historical stuff. So the record is definitely not me trying

826
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 7: to tell an American story. It's just me responding to

827
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 7: all this stuff like this is what the stuff did

828
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 7: to me. That's what the record is, rather than I'm

829
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 7: now some kind of you know, historian or journalist on

830
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 7: the American story.

831
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: Oh no, Look, just to hear an artist with a

832
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: point of view is fucking refreshing, refreshing because what we're

833
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: doing with now, well, yeah, what the fuck?

834
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 3: Well I want to ask you.

835
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 4: You've collaborated with uh been frequent, collaborated with very good friends,

836
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 4: my parents and Amber Strolder.

837
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: What is it like collaborating with them? How do y'all

838
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 3: start seing ideas?

839
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: What is it like?

840
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 7: I got introduced to Paris and Amber through Esperanza Spaulding.

841
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 7: I was working on my third record, and you know,

842
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 7: speaking of record companies, my third record was the one

843
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 7: with all the pressure on. It was like first record,

844
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 7: big success, so grateful. My second album was a kind

845
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 7: of response to that. You know, everybody was saying, oh,

846
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 7: you've been an indie band, but you've made this pop

847
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 7: soul record, and I thought, right, I'm going to play

848
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 7: more guitar on this record. But also, you know, halfway

849
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 7: through that record, I lost my husband and so there

850
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 7: was this big break. And when I started again and

851
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 7: I made the record that, you know, the label would say,

852
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 7: You've made the record you needed to make, but it

853
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 7: wasn't full of you know, smash hit sunshine songs. And

854
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 7: so the third record I really felt from the label

855
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 7: was like, okay, right, let's get back in it. You're

856
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 7: just a sort of sleeping giant, you know, like you've

857
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 7: got this, you've had this big hits, these and this

858
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 7: is the record where you're going to sort of come back.

859
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 7: And so that was really really difficult for me. And

860
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 7: I was working one time in Los Angeles with a

861
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 7: very very well known producer and artist who of course

862
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 7: I won't know, and he was very busy. He was

863
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 7: working with several artists at the same time, which sometimes

864
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 7: people do, right, so it's like, oh, hi, thanks for

865
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 7: coming right, let's work on this song for forty minutes

866
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 7: and then like, yeah, if you got some ideas, you

867
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 7: call like Jerome my assistant, right, he's going to be

868
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 7: in the room with you. I'm going down the hall

869
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 7: because you know, five other people are in the studio

870
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 7: complex and I'm just like sprinkling my sort of genius

871
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 7: hip power everywhere. So I don't know, I just I

872
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 7: wish I had that ability to sort of perform under

873
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 7: that kind of setup, but I just don't. So it's

874
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 7: like the inspiration just kind of left me. And I

875
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 7: left the session and I can't remember how So responds

876
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 7: that will. We met up and I was like, She's like,

877
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 7: how's it going with superstar producer that everyone else has

878
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 7: had massive hits with? And I said, Oh, it's going terribly.

879
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 7: You know, it makes you feel like you're you're the

880
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 7: one that's kind of flunking, you know, they're they're the

881
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 7: superstar and the other one. And she just said, have

882
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 7: you met these guys? And she brought out the CD

883
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 7: of the EP Kings King and I was like, God,

884
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 7: I said, someone just played me this two days ago.

885
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 7: It's so amazing. She said, I loved them. I went

886
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 7: to school with them. You should work with them. She picks.

887
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 7: You should work with them tonight. I'm calling them right now.

888
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 7: You should go will go around tonight. And she picked

889
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 7: up the phone and she's like, hey, Paris, you know

890
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 7: with Kreine. I was like, I don't know if they

891
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 7: I don't know if they ever heard of me, And

892
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 7: they knew me. And we went over to the house

893
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 7: and I just instantly loved them because aside from being

894
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 7: the musical geniuses that they are, they just have this

895
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 7: like still well you know them, still calm, beautiful presence.

896
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 7: And we just sat and we just had a jam.

897
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 7: My s friends was playing bass, Paris was playing keyboards,

898
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 7: me and Ambo was singing, and I just thought, oh,

899
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 7: I've sort of found a harbor here. You know, this

900
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 7: is so different to being in the room with all

901
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 7: these dudes, you know, like I've been told they're a songwriter,

902
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 7: but they're just tapping out the beats, like where's your tune?

903
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 7: Like tell me when your tracks finished, I can put

904
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 7: my superstar beats to it. And I'd be like, haven't

905
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 7: We're just starting from scratch. I thought, you know, I

906
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 7: kind of naive going into those those settings. So it

907
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 7: was just a dream to it with them and worked

908
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 7: together with on my third record, and then yeah, for

909
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 7: this one, I would just drift in. So Red Red

910
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 7: Horse came about at their place. You know, Paris is

911
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 7: just like an amazing producer. You know what she hears

912
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 7: and the lines and the weaves and the denseness of

913
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 7: the production, you know, the amount of tracks and all

914
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 7: the things that's going on, one thing feeding another and

915
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 7: other lines, and so it's just kind of like a

916
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 7: dream space. And we just got this beat going and

917
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 7: Pass was playing forwards. I was playing bass since bass.

918
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 7: I had my I remember I had my little baby.

919
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 7: I'd just had a baby, and she was strapped onto

920
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 7: me and it was like playing. So it felt really

921
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 7: kind of like it was working. You know, it's like

922
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 7: here I am and my kids asleep and I'm doing

923
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 7: this song. And then yeah, the Red Horse came out

924
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 7: of that where. Because I'd read so much of the

925
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 7: Bank and so much was in my head, I find

926
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 7: it really easy to what came out was was the

927
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 7: tales of the things that I'd read about, or i'd

928
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 7: seen a photograph. I've seen this photograph of this young

929
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 7: black girl who was going west with a white family,

930
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 7: and I just couldn't work out what she was doing.

931
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 7: She's ten, eleven, twelve, and it turned out, I mean,

932
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 7: she was an enslaved girl, but she was going to

933
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 7: be the nanny for this baby. And I was sort

934
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 7: of thinking, you know, who's looking after this child, this

935
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 7: black child in the you know, going to this west

936
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 7: town in the west there's been newly established, and what's

937
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 7: going to happen to her when they don't need her anymore?

938
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 7: And you know, I couldn't find any more information in

939
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 7: this book, and so I just imagined for her a

940
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 7: stranger riding into town on a red horse. But it

941
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 7: all it sort of came out when I was there,

942
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 7: because they just make this amazing dream space. So yeah,

943
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 7: I mean, I love I love working with Parasonal.

944
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 3: I was really happy to see our Glabrary.

945
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: I want to know more about your your childhood and

946
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: your upbringing. Where were you born.

947
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 7: I was born in Leeds and that's where I still live.

948
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 7: So Leeds is two hundred miles north of London and

949
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 7: it's two hundred miles south of Edinburgh. Like at the

950
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,479
Speaker 7: bottom of our street where we live, there's an old

951
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 7: way post and it says, you know, London this way

952
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 7: two hundred miles you know, Edinburgh this.

953
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: Way right on the border.

954
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 7: We're right between, yeah, the capital of Scotland and the

955
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 7: capital of England. So as much as I feel, you know,

956
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 7: I feel myself to you know, be English, but the

957
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 7: north is really different to the South. It's not as wealthy,

958
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 7: it's more it was industrial, but then the industry sort

959
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 7: of went away, so there's that kind of a feeling.

960
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 7: I mean, Leeds is a big university town, you know, Scots.

961
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 7: I think more than one hundred thousand students between the

962
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,439
Speaker 7: different universities, so it's a big place where people come

963
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 7: to learn, lots of thinkers come, but then lots of

964
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 7: people leave at the end of it, right because like

965
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 7: they go to London, they go, they go somewhere else

966
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 7: where the jobs are. So it's a creative place, but

967
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 7: sometimes it's hard to get things going because there's not

968
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 7: necessarily people don't necessarily come and stay. They kind of

969
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 7: passed through.

970
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: Well, you have three siblings.

971
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 7: Correct or they're three of us. Yeah, there's two sisters.

972
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 7: So my sister, my middle sister works in politics and

973
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 7: she worked in social justice, and then my younger sister

974
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 7: acts and then yeah, then there's me too.

975
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: So he described the household, Like, how were your parents

976
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 2: artistically inclined or musically inclined or anything.

977
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 7: I think my mom really liked singing. My mum used

978
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 7: to sing around the house all the time, so she

979
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 7: and she would sing at church. And then my dad

980
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 7: collected music, so that was his thing. He had just

981
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 7: sort of piles of records. He was really fastidious. There

982
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 7: was a really good record shop in these called Jumbo

983
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 7: Records that would import us records, so my parents would

984
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 7: go there all the time. They met on the dance floor,

985
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 7: you know, when they were teenagers. And my dad's family

986
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 7: is from Saint Kitts and the Caribbean. But yeah, he's

987
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 7: a big collector of music, and so I think sometimes

988
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 7: I would just look through these forty five you know,

989
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 7: they were just in paper. They didn't have any covers,

990
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 7: so you could just maybe get a bit of an

991
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 7: idea from the name on the label, but mostly you

992
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 7: had to actually put the record on, you know, and

993
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 7: just like put the needle on. And so he had

994
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 7: his pile, and then I had my pile out of

995
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 7: his pile of things that I liked to listen to

996
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 7: that I kind of kept separately. So I don't know

997
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,479
Speaker 7: what it was, and you know, I just I grew

998
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,959
Speaker 7: up with music definitely, But then I got into music

999
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 7: at school, but not even if my parents played instruments.

1000
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,760
Speaker 7: I started playing violin at school and I really really

1001
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 7: loved that, and at first I found it easy. I mean,

1002
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 7: later on I found it really hard, because I do

1003
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 7: find reading music really hard. But I liked the thing

1004
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 7: of listening and picking up stuff. I really liked being

1005
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:53,760
Speaker 7: in orchestras. You know, I was often the only person

1006
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 7: of color in the whole orchestra that was or at

1007
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 7: ballet or whatever it was. But I think our parents

1008
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 7: and especially my mum just encourage us to do express,

1009
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 7: express ourselves things. So we did, you know, we did

1010
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 7: do ballet, We did play instruments, We did go to

1011
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 7: watch concerts and went to theater when we could. I mean,

1012
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 7: my mum was cleaning houses when I was younger, and

1013
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 7: then she started she started working with kids from school

1014
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 7: from the school that was at you know, reading to

1015
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 7: them in the lessons, the kids who were struggling. Then

1016
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 7: she did some qualification so that she could be a

1017
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 7: learning mentor in the school. And my dad, my dad's

1018
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 7: kind of visically had a shop, kind of picture framing

1019
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 7: and candles and clocks shop. But he was always you know,

1020
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 7: he's got a big math's brain, which is the opposite

1021
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 7: of my brain. So he would teach. There was a

1022
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 7: school for kids who didn't get on well at school,

1023
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 7: and it was mostly Black and Asian children in England.

1024
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 7: That's like Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Black children. And that

1025
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 7: was in the sort of concentration of black area, Chapeltown,

1026
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 7: where his family came. So he would teach these kids,

1027
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 7: you know, he'd teach the maths mostly math's a bit

1028
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 7: of English. But so all the boys and girls in

1029
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 7: our school that were maybe had a reputation of being

1030
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 7: more sort of tough or like they didn't get on

1031
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 7: with the teachers. They didn't get on with the teachers

1032
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 7: at our school. They would know me because my dad

1033
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 7: would teach them maths, you know, and they'd be like,

1034
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 7: mister Bailey, he's so strict. Yeah, So it was. I

1035
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,919
Speaker 7: liked growing up there. It had a big Caribbean community leagues.

1036
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 7: I mean it still does, so I would be I

1037
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 7: guess I grew up between these two worlds. Where we

1038
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 7: lived was a white area and a big Jewish area

1039
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 7: as well, my high school was a big jewsh high school,

1040
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 7: lots of the Jewish teachers and children, so when it

1041
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 7: was Jewish holidays, like a third of the kids wouldn't

1042
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 7: be there, so our calendar was kind of worked around

1043
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 7: the Jewish holiday. And then my grandparents lived in the

1044
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 7: Caribbean area of Leeds, so I would always be like

1045
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 7: between these two worlds. Do I fit in these worlds?

1046
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 7: I do. I do fit in them, but I feel different,

1047
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 7: you know, in both places. I feel a bit of different.

1048
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 7: You know. It's like I'm black, but I'm sort of

1049
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 7: not black in the same way my cousins are. And

1050
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 7: then I'm definitely not white, but I am my mum's daughter,

1051
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 7: you know. So it's always just like finding identity. And

1052
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 7: I think I think that's why I really pulled towards

1053
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 7: I don't know, Indie sort of you know, riot girl,

1054
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 7: like all of that stuff, you know, feeling like I

1055
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 7: feel like an outsider. I have something to say. I

1056
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 7: am underweight, I'm riding to school on a bike balancing

1057
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 7: my violin. I'm a nerd. But I'm also not from

1058
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 7: a wealthy background, so I'm fitting in, you know, like

1059
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 7: a lot of my peers might not be going to

1060
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 7: play in the orchestra or reading Jane Austin and you know,

1061
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 7: Charlotte Bronte, but at the same time, that's just what

1062
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 7: I'm doing. So yeah, I felt like an outsider.

1063
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: I guess were you born in the early eighties.

1064
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 7: I believe I was born in nineteen seventy nine.

1065
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 2: Okay, So who did you gravity towards musically? Like who

1066
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 2: was the first like moment of I.

1067
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 7: Mean, I guess Michael Jackson was the biggest thing in

1068
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 7: our world. Just that's the age that I had. Yeah,

1069
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 7: could avoid him, and so I remember there was a

1070
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 7: concert in Leeds. We used to live near this park

1071
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 7: called Ruante Park and there was a big park that

1072
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 7: used to have concerts, so like Madonna played there or

1073
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 7: you know, but but Michael Jackson played there, and I

1074
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 7: remember it was like a sort of pilgrimage to go

1075
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 7: to this concert, Like we couldn't afford tickets for the concert,

1076
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 7: but I remember it was it was a bank holiday

1077
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 7: in August that we went to the concert. Yeah, I mean,

1078
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 7: Mychael Jackson's stuff was so interesting because obviously there was

1079
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,240
Speaker 7: the music itself, then there was all the mystery around

1080
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 7: the man. But remember how they used to film the

1081
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 7: concerts is I feel like nearly half of the concept

1082
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 7: wasn't showing him, it was showing the audience. So it

1083
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 7: was just showing these people having these responses to him,

1084
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 7: And I remember feeling that feeling that they had this

1085
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 7: kind of like melting sort of spiritual feeling. I mean,

1086
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 7: I think the music has what that music is doing

1087
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 7: in sort of jazz and harmony because I'm not trained,

1088
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 7: I just don't understand what it's doing, but it still

1089
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 7: does the same thing to my brain where it's like

1090
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 7: I don't know what's happening here, and this thing is

1091
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 7: transitioning into this thing, and there's this lushness and then

1092
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 7: there's this tension and then it goes away. And so

1093
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 7: his music had that complex of beauty, but it was

1094
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 7: being absorbed by all of us, including you know, five

1095
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 7: year olds, ten year olds, and so I think, I mean,

1096
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 7: aside from of course, all the separate things about Michael

1097
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 7: Jackson which we learned about in that time when those

1098
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 7: those issues weren't swirling, I just yeah, I just Michael

1099
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 7: Jackson's music was kind of the pinnacle. But I grewup

1100
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 7: with Stevie Wonder as well, because it's what my parents liked.

1101
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 7: I really liked Secret Life of Plants. That was the

1102
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 7: record I remember having. I remember touching the braille. I

1103
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 7: remember the sort of weirdness and mystery of it, and

1104
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 7: the way the synth sounded, and the photograph of him

1105
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 7: inside and the way you could see, you know, you

1106
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 7: can see his eyes. And so I sort of loved Stevie.

1107
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 7: I thought, oh, like, I just felt in my heart

1108
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 7: like I want to meet Stevie. I'm sure that all

1109
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 7: kids feel that, right, So but then when I did

1110
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 7: get to meet it, I was like, this is like

1111
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 7: my dream that I had, and here I you know,

1112
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 7: I wrote Stevie Wonder a letter and as a teenager

1113
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 7: saying about how much I love I never dreamed you'd leave.

1114
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 7: I never dreamed you'd leave in summer. I remember writing

1115
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 7: this passionate letter about it. And then I thought, why

1116
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 7: am I writing a letter. I should be writing it

1117
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 7: in Braille, And you know, I never got around to.

1118
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: I was about to say he learned braille.

1119
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 7: Just yeah, yeah, he is a you know, he obviously

1120
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 7: reached brail.

1121
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 2: There's there's a funny story where, uh, you know, producer NARDA.

1122
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 2: Michael Walden. He produced Whitney Houston's I Want to I

1123
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: Will I Know, and I Want to Dance with Somebody,

1124
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: And he also did like starships, like nothing's going to

1125
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: stop us now or not. Like he was like Clive

1126
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: Davis's go to guy. But he tells the story that

1127
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 2: he was so inspired after seeing Stevie do fingertips when

1128
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 2: he was a kid.

1129
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: Somewhere in the mid sixties.

1130
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: Was a kind of solar eclipse in which you know,

1131
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: they warned parents, do not let your child look in

1132
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 2: the sun or else you're going to go blind. And

1133
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 2: you know, they were giving out free glasses and you're

1134
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: supposed to wear glasses all day and whatever. And Narda

1135
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: was like, if I take these glasses off, then I

1136
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: too can be a genius like Stevie wonder He told

1137
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 2: me about the first time he got in trouble with

1138
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 2: his mom, like she said, like you know, like yeah,

1139
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 2: punished him, but yeah, he was he wanted to be

1140
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 2: blind like Stevie Wonders so that he could be a genius.

1141
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 2: Do you do you remember the first concert that you went.

1142
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 7: To, the first concert I went to. I mean, I

1143
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 7: think I didn't go to concerts when I was little because,

1144
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 7: like I said, well, my parents got divorced, so you know,

1145
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 7: we didn't have a car, we didn't have a telephone,

1146
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 7: we didn't my mum was cleaned houses and then she

1147
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 7: worked at this school, so we didn't have to spare

1148
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 7: money at all. You know. We used to get our

1149
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 7: clothes in a binliner from unless it was Christmas or birthdays,

1150
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 7: but we used to get our clothes from people from church,

1151
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 7: you know, with their names still selling it, you know,

1152
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 7: and yeah, I love this, like if they had trainers,

1153
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 7: we always had the trainers then Nick's not the Nikes

1154
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 7: and all of that sort of stuff, you know, right,

1155
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 7: But so we didn't we didn't go to gigs when

1156
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 7: we were little, but I remember I probably went to

1157
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 7: something like I probably would have gone to the Cockpit,

1158
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 7: which was a sort of indie venue, and I would

1159
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 7: have gone to see a band like some small bands

1160
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 7: like Shed seven or the Charlatan's, the band called the

1161
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 7: Charlatans that I really like. I definitely got.

1162
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 2: I've heard the Charlatans. Yeah you saw them in their

1163
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 2: early stages.

1164
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, I saw them. I mean I think there's still

1165
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 7: been Yeah, they've been going a little while, but obviously

1166
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 7: that I was still still going ahead. But yeah, I

1167
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 7: remember seeing a band called Kaniki, which had a female's

1168
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 7: lead singer, and I remember seeing Belly, who I thought

1169
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 7: were amazing. So yeah, just but so before i'd gone

1170
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 7: to gigs, I was doing gigs, you know, like it

1171
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 7: was it's just a thing because it was the nineties

1172
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 7: and everybody I knew was that abound, and I was.

1173
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 7: I had I was part of this church group and

1174
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 7: we had a youth leader who was called Simon Hall,

1175
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 7: and he was really into music. He was kind of

1176
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 7: like a like a music snob, you know. So one

1177
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 7: time I turn up at church and he's like, here's

1178
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 7: a guitar, and I was just, you know, I couldn't

1179
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 7: believe it. And so I had to pay him back

1180
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 7: like ten pounds every month, you know, like I'd said,

1181
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 7: I've got my seven pounds, Oh thank you, and you

1182
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 7: know sometimes you just said, oh, just buy me a pizza,

1183
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 7: you know, and but I might, you know, I managed

1184
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 7: to pay back, and he is, you know, still a

1185
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 7: dear friend of mine. But that that was really great.

1186
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 7: And I used to play my guitar through the stereo

1187
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 7: because I didn't have an amp, and but I just loved.

1188
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 7: I loved learning songs. I sort of could learn songs wrong.

1189
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 7: I liked Lena Fiedbe, I liked Buuck. You know, so

1190
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 7: I try and learn a B York song but not

1191
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 7: quite get the chords right. But then I had some

1192
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 7: chords I liked, and then I could write a different

1193
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 7: song over And I liked that time of music for

1194
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 7: especially for women. It was really confessional. I loved Julian

1195
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 7: Hatfield and she had this song called My Sister. The

1196
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 7: song was like, I hate my sister. She's such a bitch.

1197
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 7: She acts like she doesn't even know that I exist.

1198
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 7: But I'd give her anything to let her know I care.

1199
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 7: But I'm only talking to myself because she's not there.

1200
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 7: I remember thinking, you can write a song about that.

1201
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 7: You can write a song about how you feel about

1202
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 7: your siblings. You can write a song about your walk

1203
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 7: to school. You can write a song about how a

1204
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 7: boy laughed at your hair, like you know. So, it's

1205
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 7: just it was different to pop music, which was more

1206
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 7: like universal. Everyone's included, you know, big messages, and this

1207
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 7: was just the every day. And that was my entry

1208
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 7: into songwriting because I thought, oh, you can write about anything.

1209
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 2: Hey, are you aware of Nandy Bushell. So she's she's

1210
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 2: a kid from the UK. She is notable when she

1211
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 2: was like six or seven years old playing the drums

1212
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: on Instagram.

1213
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: Since then, I.

1214
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 7: Think I've seen a play. I think one time we

1215
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 7: were borting Leny Kravitz and she came on the sound

1216
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 7: check and she played. I didn't know she was from

1217
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 7: the UK, and I didn't remember her name, but I've

1218
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 7: seen her. She's played with Dave Grohl, right.

1219
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: And yes, yeah, it's scary for her now. So she's

1220
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: entering her teens now and already like you know, first

1221
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 2: it was just the drums and singing, but then now

1222
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 2: she's like on her saxophone kick, like she plays saxophone

1223
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 2: now and keyboards. Like it's the way that she's developing.

1224
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 2: Like it's it's really interesting to see, like who kind

1225
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 2: of rises to the occasion, like when they start off

1226
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 2: as I'm not saying novelty, but like when you're six

1227
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 2: and seven, like your parents are sort of like being

1228
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 2: backstage parents and that sort of thing. And I was

1229
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 2: kind of wondering, like, Okay, well she keep at it,

1230
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 2: you know, at at nine, ten and eleven, now that

1231
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 2: she's getting up there, like she's her chops are like

1232
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: she's not relying on the novelty of like, hey, you

1233
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 2: know cute black girl from the UK and I complete

1234
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 2: drums a little, like she's really.

1235
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: Kicking ass and getting more into songwriting and that sort

1236
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: of thing. It's such a rapid piece that, you know,

1237
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: it's mind blowing to me.

1238
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 2: I just wanted to know if you were aware of her,

1239
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 2: how did you start the band and were you guys

1240
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 2: at all like seriously trying to pursue a record deal

1241
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 2: or was it just like, hey, we're a local band.

1242
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 7: We really were trying to get somewhere. I think I

1243
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 7: was very serious when I was a kid. And also

1244
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 7: the band that i'd seen, Kiniki, they were only teenagers

1245
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 7: when they got signed, like they got signed out of

1246
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 7: high school. So I just kind of thought, like it

1247
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 7: is possible, you know, it was possible for it to happen.

1248
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 7: And so my band was my best friend who was

1249
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 7: called Jennifer Pugh, and she me and her used to

1250
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 7: play violins together, so we used to make these tapes

1251
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 7: together of like I don't know if she's singing or

1252
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 7: I'm singing, We're made of a story or like a

1253
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 7: keyboard thing about made a song about monsters, you know,

1254
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 7: like when you're ten or whatever. And then that just

1255
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 7: kind of kept going. And so when I started guitar,

1256
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 7: she started guitar, she got really good and she was

1257
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 7: so she was the lead guitarist, you know, she had

1258
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 7: proper lessons. And then we had a friend who was

1259
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 7: just a bad ass, and she has called Joanne Wilson.

1260
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 7: She played bass, and she had she'd learned a bit

1261
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 7: of flute, she'd learned a bit piano. She didn't really

1262
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 7: know the bass, so we used to have to teach it,

1263
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 7: like you know two two two two two two three

1264
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 7: through three three three three one one mightn't you know,

1265
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 7: but she she picked it up and she just looked

1266
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 7: the part. And it was those days, you know, we

1267
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 7: can smoke indoors and like, so she had just like

1268
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 7: have a cigarette and she had this bleach blonde hair.

1269
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 7: She she was like a regular, real life bad girl.

1270
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 7: And then my boyfriend at the time played drums. He

1271
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 7: was two years older than me and he was in

1272
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,919
Speaker 7: a band. And I remember one time his band were

1273
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 7: playing at this pub called Joseph Well, I know it

1274
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 7: was the Duchess. It was the Duchess and that was

1275
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 7: famous to us because Nirvanna had played there, so we're

1276
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 7: like the duchess. And that was in those days. You

1277
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 7: could go to a pub even though you were underage.

1278
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 7: As long as she didn't drink, you could be there.

1279
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 7: So you could be there at sort of sixteen seventeen

1280
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 7: as long as you didn't go anywhere in the bar.

1281
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 7: And he called me and he said, our support act

1282
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 7: is not can't can't do our show next week? Do

1283
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 7: you guys want to play? And well, you know, we've

1284
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 7: got three songs. We have to get together and write,

1285
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 7: you know, three more songs so we can see we

1286
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 7: can be in the support band. But I just loved it.

1287
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 7: And I remember being on stage. I love the transition

1288
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 7: of like you write the songs in your bedroom, you're

1289
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 7: practicing someone's living room, you take the equipment with you

1290
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 7: on the bus, you walk into the pub. You know,

1291
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 7: for us, it was like three girls and we're all

1292
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 7: kind of like petite with our instruments, so we just

1293
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 7: like these guys. And then but then you get on

1294
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 7: stage and then and the music was, you know, as

1295
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 7: distorted guitars, And I loved the fact that people weren't

1296
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 7: expecting it of us. That's one thing I loved that.

1297
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 7: I also really loved just being there and thinking, oh,

1298
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 7: you know, I had this idea in my room, and

1299
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 7: now here I am playing it on stage. And you know,

1300
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 7: when you first do shows like that, it's your parents

1301
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 7: and your friend's parents and everyone's saying, oh, that was lovely.

1302
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 7: And then but I remember the first time we did

1303
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 7: a gig where a person I didn't know came up

1304
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 7: to me and they were like, god, that was and

1305
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 7: I thought, like, whose dad is this? But it was

1306
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 7: no one's dad. It was just a guy. And I

1307
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 7: really liked when you were play in a pub and

1308
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 7: people would be drinking at the barn and they just look

1309
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 7: over and then one by one, you know, they would

1310
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 7: come into the room, and then by the end there'd

1311
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 7: be more people there. Then started and I just really

1312
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 7: liked the feeling of it, the excitement, the fear of it,

1313
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 7: and so I just carried on and yeah, we really

1314
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 7: wanted to make it. We had a deal offered from

1315
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 7: road Runner Records, who were a metal label, but we

1316
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 7: were going to be the first indie signing, and the

1317
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 7: manager that we had at a time ended up in

1318
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 7: prison because he was kind of like a dodgy tax guy.

1319
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 7: And he was the son of a very very well

1320
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 7: known music manager. But anyway, you know, he took us

1321
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 7: out for lunch to a fancy hotel. You know, we

1322
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:11,640
Speaker 7: never we hadn't eaten places like that. He pay and

1323
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,759
Speaker 7: it was all going really well. But our bass player,

1324
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 7: who was the you know, the cool girl in the band,

1325
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 7: she she got pregnant. And I remember telling him. I

1326
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 7: was like, you know, Joanne's pregnant, but that's great, right,

1327
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 7: because we'll be able to be on stage she'll have

1328
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 7: a bump. And then so I remember the next time

1329
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 7: we tried to call the phone, he didn't answer the phone.

1330
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 7: And then the next time we tried to call, he

1331
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 7: didn't answer the phone. Then the next time we tried

1332
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 7: to call it This is before email or anything, you know,

1333
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 7: so you've got Yeah, that was the end, and I

1334
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 7: never saw him again. I saw that. It was like

1335
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 7: literally went to.

1336
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 5: Prison forgot that.

1337
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, But I mean that's not why I didn't answer

1338
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 7: the phone. I think he just the idea of like

1339
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 7: a pregnant teen bass player wasn't as cool as it

1340
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,480
Speaker 7: was to us. Then I had to go back to university.

1341
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 7: I was in my second year and had to go

1342
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 7: into the third year kind of like tail between my legs.

1343
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 7: I'd been like, yes, you know, we're on our way.

1344
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 7: You know, I had to come back and pick up

1345
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 7: all the bits of literature that no one wanted to do,

1346
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 7: you know, medieval literature. And I finished my course and

1347
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 7: then I waitressed, and then I worked on the jewelry

1348
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 7: counter at this fancy department store, just kind of waiting

1349
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 7: to see what happened with my band. And in the meantime,

1350
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 7: we got another manager and he was like, you know,

1351
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 7: you're writing all the songs, you are standing out. Why

1352
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 7: did you come to London and write some songs with

1353
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:44,719
Speaker 7: these different people and just sort of see what happens.

1354
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 7: And I felt really divided because it was all my

1355
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 7: best friends, you know at the time, but my best

1356
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 7: friend who had a baby, she'd left and we had

1357
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 7: a different person. Then the drummer had left, who got

1358
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 7: a different drummer, so it wasn't really the same bad

1359
01:10:58,040 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 7: and I just thought, yeah, I'm going to try that.

1360
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 7: I'm gonna try this, and those songs became the songs

1361
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 7: that I had from my first record.

1362
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 2: So what was what was that first year like to

1363
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 2: just come out the box and instantly I almost feel

1364
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 2: like it's harder to top the charts in the UK

1365
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 2: than it is America. Like I know, for everyone, making

1366
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 2: it in America is the dream, but I'm way more

1367
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 2: impressed because I feel like the hurdles are harder and

1368
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 2: higher to even make some sort of dent or impression

1369
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 2: in the UK, because I almost feel like if you're

1370
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 2: hit in the UK, you can work forever because they're

1371
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 2: not as disposable as we are in the States, like

1372
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 2: I know right now, like who's old Boy with One Eye?

1373
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 1: Fante Old Boy with one Eye?

1374
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like even when Betty Watt was supposed to be

1375
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 2: the second coming of something and I just found out

1376
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 2: he he's in jail, like I didn't even know.

1377
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the two records he had, the Trap

1378
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 4: Queen and he had yeah, he had like one of them.

1379
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 2: He had a moment in which I found out like

1380
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 2: he was going to be a thing, at least a

1381
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 2: second or third album or fourth you know what I mean,

1382
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. But to me, like your album

1383
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 2: Chop topped the charts in the UK, what was that

1384
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 2: feeling like for you?

1385
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 7: It was such a surprise. I remember getting a phone call.

1386
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 7: I was in Switzerland, because I guess Europe so small, right,

1387
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 7: So you do your bit of promotion in the UK,

1388
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 7: then you go to France, then you go to Italy,

1389
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 7: then you go to Spain, then you go to Germany,

1390
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 7: then you go to Holland then and you can do

1391
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 7: all that in about two weeks because it's so small.

1392
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 7: And so I remember being in Switzerland's I got a

1393
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 7: phone call that said, like, the album's gone to number one,

1394
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 7: and I just look like, what you know? I just

1395
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 7: because I still didn't know anybody knew about me. And

1396
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 7: it was of course in the days when you had

1397
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 7: to physically go to a record shop and buy a record,

1398
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 7: So I was like, how how has this happened? And

1399
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 7: but I had got a lot of support from the

1400
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 7: BBC really early on. So in two thousand and five

1401
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 7: I had put out Like a Star as a just

1402
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 7: an EP. It was like a limited edition EP, but

1403
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 7: the BBC had kind of picked up on it and

1404
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,800
Speaker 7: they put me on this TV show. It was Got

1405
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 7: Later with Jules Holland and I remember last week yeah

1406
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 7: yeah really yeah, so good. We just did one a

1407
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 7: few weeks ago. But I mean, he's such a big

1408
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 7: supporter of music, and it's a fully live show. It's

1409
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 7: five or six bands in a round, you know, and

1410
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 7: you just you just watch everyone do their thing. You'll

1411
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 7: get one or two goes at it. I remember I

1412
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 7: was seeing the showcase in London and maybe the first

1413
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 7: first Thursday, one hundred people came, and then second Thursday,

1414
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 7: like two hundred people came, and the third Thursday like

1415
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 7: people couldn't get in. And then on the fourth Thursday,

1416
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 7: I'd done Jules Holland like earlier on in the day

1417
01:13:57,439 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 7: before I went to it, so it felt like it

1418
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 7: had really gone from nobody knows about me too, like

1419
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 7: I just got to play on the first ever TV show,

1420
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 7: you know. I remember once getting into a hotel room

1421
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 7: and I put on the radio through the TV and

1422
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:12,600
Speaker 7: like a Star was playing and I was looking at

1423
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 7: it thinking is my CD player plugged in here? And

1424
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 7: then I realized it's on the radio, the actual radio.

1425
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 7: Someone else is playing it. So it was just new

1426
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 7: to me. And then everything was so fast, like, oh,

1427
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 7: Stevie Wonder's on the phone, what, like we're playing a

1428
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,719
Speaker 7: show in America. Oh Prince has come to the show,

1429
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 7: Like you've just met Mary j Blige and she has

1430
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 7: heard of you. You know. It's just like I went

1431
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 7: to read out the nominations and the Grammys and I thought,

1432
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:44,600
Speaker 7: this is amazing. I'm getting to read out the nominations

1433
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 7: and then just in Timberlake was saying, you know, song

1434
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,719
Speaker 7: of the Record of the Year and put your records

1435
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 7: on what you know? To me, the nominations were the Grammys,

1436
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 7: Like it was that was the biggest excitement for me.

1437
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 7: Is just like hearing my name read out in a

1438
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 7: few categories, you know. So so yeah, it was.

1439
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: Answer one question for me.

1440
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to interrupt you, but since

1441
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 2: you mentioned that, I got to ask, so, since you

1442
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: were on the Joni letters, do you receive an actual Grammy?

1443
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 7: Yes?

1444
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so I get it.

1445
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 2: See, there's there's so much goalpost moving when it comes

1446
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 2: to you.

1447
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,360
Speaker 1: Who can get one? Who can't get one? Yeah, because I'm.

1448
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 2: Associated with a few records that are albums of the Year.

1449
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 2: But I find out like in some categories, like especially

1450
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 2: with hip hop and soul, because there's so many collaborators

1451
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 2: and sample credits and all that stuff.

1452
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 7: They don't want to trophies.

1453
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll just give you a little certificate. Yeah, so

1454
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 1: you participated.

1455
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,799
Speaker 2: But then I'll notice, like on in Classical and Country

1456
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 2: and in the main categories, like everyone gets like you're

1457
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 2: an official Grammy winner, where mine is sort of like

1458
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 2: I get it trophy awards, like, yeah, I participate.

1459
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 1: In voodoo here, here's my thing, you know. Yeah, I

1460
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: always wanted to know.

1461
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 7: Well, you should, you should redress that.

1462
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: Man, I got my own other battles to deal with.

1463
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 2: So no, but I do feel like when artists win

1464
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 2: Album of the Year and their respective categories, like we

1465
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 2: too should get awards as well.

1466
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:25,639
Speaker 7: So yeah, but I always wanted.

1467
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 2: To know in the main category, do you get an

1468
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 2: award or do you not get work?

1469
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: Okay?

1470
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, I remember Herbie saying if we win, I want

1471
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 7: you to come up on stage. But in the moment,

1472
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 7: I didn't go up. I just like, I've contributed one

1473
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 7: song to this. This is Herbie's saying. And he had

1474
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 7: such a he had a lot to say, right, he

1475
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 7: had a speech prepared in his pocket.

1476
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 1: You know, m No, don't don't dismiss that.

1477
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 2: That was your moment, you know, just in wrapping up

1478
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 2: for me, like I feel like this album is the

1479
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 2: soundtrack to a movie that doesn't exist yet, or.

1480
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: Like, how do you take this further?

1481
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 2: Because I feel like there's no turning, Like you've done

1482
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 2: to open a door that can't be closed now, So

1483
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:13,759
Speaker 2: like what is your what is your next plan?

1484
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:15,599
Speaker 1: Musically? At least that's a.

1485
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 7: Really good question. I mean, definitely, my engagement with that

1486
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 7: building and those histories definitely doesn't stop. You know, I

1487
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 7: really want to write an essay about the erasure of

1488
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 7: black childhood that I saw in the objects in the

1489
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 7: Arts Bank, because it's a kind of strategic, you know,

1490
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 7: wide ranging kind of assault on childhood. You know, you know,

1491
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 7: hundreds of years long, but you know, it's two hundred

1492
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 7: years of evidence in that in the Arts Bank in

1493
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:46,679
Speaker 7: terms of black children being depicted as not fully innocent,

1494
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 7: they're sexualized, they're seen as labor, you know, people who labor,

1495
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 7: like black childhood doesn't exist for the black children in

1496
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 7: the objects in the Ed Williams collection. And then right

1497
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 7: now next to the Arts Bank is there Tamir rice

1498
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 7: pavilion which is going to be torn down. And Timir

1499
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 7: Rice's mother came to Theesta and asked whether that could

1500
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 7: have its place next to the bank, so that Tamir

1501
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 7: Rice Pavilion is there, and you know, I think a

1502
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 7: lot about the connection between what is it for a

1503
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 7: police officer to not perceive someone as a child, to

1504
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 7: think of them as a dangerous adult instead of seeing

1505
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 7: them as a child playing with a toy because they've

1506
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 7: been swimming in this culture, lifelong culture that extends back

1507
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:42,520
Speaker 7: generations of not affording black children the same space, innocent,

1508
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 7: joy freedom as other children. You know, how does it?

1509
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 7: One thing is cartoons and stories and silly picture books

1510
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:57,560
Speaker 7: and you know, illustrations in the Black Sambo and postcards

1511
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 7: saying all these coon look alike. But the real world

1512
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 7: of effect is, you know, it's death for some young people,

1513
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 7: and so I definitely want to make some sort of

1514
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 7: I want to do some sort of work around that.

1515
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 7: But at the same time, I know there's people who

1516
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 7: are more gifted in that area. You know, I'm just

1517
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:22,480
Speaker 7: reading Christina Sharp's book. You know, there's some towering academics

1518
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 7: in that world. But at the same time, there's all

1519
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 7: this collection of the stuff that I'm interested in. So,

1520
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,560
Speaker 7: I mean, and you wanted to find a way to

1521
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:33,799
Speaker 7: make some sort of commentary and that, But yeah, for me, musically,

1522
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,720
Speaker 7: I just feel like I came from a place on

1523
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 7: my third album feeling like I am a failed pop

1524
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 7: star who has sort of squandered their chips at the

1525
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:49,560
Speaker 7: you know, the Roulette table of music. You know, you

1526
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:51,679
Speaker 7: had all this and you could have And my third

1527
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 7: record was that. You know, it's me just playing what

1528
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,640
Speaker 7: songs to music executives, you know, eight men in a

1529
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 7: room and having them say I just don't think that's

1530
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,639
Speaker 7: the first single, you know, and thinking okay, And after

1531
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 7: a while I didn't need them to be in the

1532
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 7: room at all because they were just in my head

1533
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:13,760
Speaker 7: everything I started. What's the point of even finishing this song?

1534
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 7: It's not an international megasmash, you know, it's not uptown funk,

1535
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 7: So why am I even going to finish it? To

1536
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 7: now feeling like I am an artist? An artist's job

1537
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 7: is to exemplify freedom. I this is my work. This

1538
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 7: is what I love to do. It's what I've always

1539
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 7: loved to do. This is what I'll always do. That

1540
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 7: is the position I feel like I'm in.

1541
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 2: Are you pleased with the response that you're getting about

1542
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 2: the record.

1543
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 7: I've overjoyed with the response, definitely, because I feel, I mean,

1544
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 7: I don't read it, but I've got someone who's telling me,

1545
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 7: you know, yeah, you know, it's a good response.

1546
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 2: And I live between fuck Pitchfork and did you see

1547
01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 2: where Pittsfork said? And to me, you know, sometimes they

1548
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 2: get it right. I mean even when they're this and me,

1549
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 2: they get it right. But sometimes they get it right.

1550
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,639
Speaker 4: What's been the difference we were talking about labels earlier,

1551
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:14,679
Speaker 4: Now that you're with thirty Tigers and kind of doing

1552
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 4: it independently, what is that like now?

1553
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 2: What is the difference between you know, being labels? YEA,

1554
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 2: put a number before an animal is.

1555
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 9: Right?

1556
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think, doctor Seuss, I think. But yeah, I

1557
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 7: loved that label straight away when I met them. I mean,

1558
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 7: I made the record independently. I made it with my

1559
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 7: own means, and I made it with you know, from

1560
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 7: our studio, and that gave me all this freedom. One

1561
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 7: I thought of it as a side project too. There

1562
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 7: was no one saying where's the hits or when is

1563
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 7: it finished? Which was really important because I also realized

1564
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 7: I don't respond well to that kind of pressure either.

1565
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 7: And my first record sort of being made like that,

1566
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,839
Speaker 7: I made it in the basement of an art studio

1567
01:21:57,680 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 7: with someone that I got to know as a friend,

1568
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 7: you know, so, and then we walked it into labels

1569
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 7: and we worked it to Sony and they were like,

1570
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 7: And then we walked at Universal and they were you know.

1571
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 7: So it's like I felt, and I feel like, whatever

1572
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 7: I do in the future, I'm going to make that

1573
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 7: record and see who likes it, because why would you

1574
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 7: want to work with people who don't like it? And

1575
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 7: it's so hard, you know, my third record, it was

1576
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 7: so hard, feeling like I was just disappointing people at

1577
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 7: every turn, you know, and at that point, people are

1578
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,639
Speaker 7: getting sacked if you don't make the right record right.

1579
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 7: People are losing their jobs, and the people you've known

1580
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:35,559
Speaker 7: for ten years and you know their kids, and so

1581
01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 7: you feel a lot of responsibility. But it's so weird

1582
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 7: being an artist how you can feel trapped by the

1583
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 7: things that you made. You know that it doesn't make

1584
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 7: any sense, does it. But I think you can make

1585
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 7: something and then it makes you this corridor and then

1586
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 7: you think, well that I have to go down that.

1587
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:53,719
Speaker 7: You know. The way that I was able to feel

1588
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:56,759
Speaker 7: free on this was thinking it's not a Corinne Bailey

1589
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 7: ray record, but that that's just me. So, you know,

1590
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,800
Speaker 7: it was only when the artist, you know, he's a

1591
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 7: brilliant graph Writery writes, it makes amazing things for skateboard.

1592
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,800
Speaker 7: Skateboard magazine is where I saw his work. It's only

1593
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:13,080
Speaker 7: when he sent me the cover and I saw my name.

1594
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:15,640
Speaker 7: The first thing I thought was like, I got to

1595
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 7: tell him not to put my name on it. It meant

1596
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 7: to say black rainbows, right, And then I saw my name.

1597
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:23,679
Speaker 7: I thought, there's something about not seeing it as a font.

1598
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:25,800
Speaker 7: I think sometimes when you see your name as a font,

1599
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 7: it becomes a sort of brand that somehow like tears

1600
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 7: away from you and becomes a separate thing. And it's like, oh,

1601
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 7: it's not in that font, it's just freehand, but it's me.

1602
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 7: And I thought, yeah, I never want to be boxed

1603
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,720
Speaker 7: in again by my perception of what I think other

1604
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 7: people's perception of me, which, which of course is too

1605
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 7: is too circular anyway, So yeah, I definitely sort of

1606
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 7: can't go back. And then now I'm just trying to

1607
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,360
Speaker 7: work out what to do.

1608
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 2: Next tour wise. How many weeks are you doing in

1609
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 2: the States, And we did.

1610
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 7: Five weeks in September, then we went to Europe and

1611
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 7: did six weeks. I know it wasn't six weeks. It

1612
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 7: was about four. And then we've come back now and

1613
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,759
Speaker 7: we've done some West Coast dates and then we've got

1614
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 7: our Blue Note shows, and then we're coming back in

1615
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 7: June and do some US dates as well. And I'm

1616
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 7: playing in Australia and I'm playing you know, it's like

1617
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 7: it's that's a good thing is you know, just getting

1618
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 7: to play all over the world. It's a dream to me.

1619
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 7: You know, I'm not playing to twenty thousand people. I'm

1620
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 7: playing to two thousand people. But they're scattered all over

1621
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 7: the world, and I'm happy to get on a plane

1622
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 7: and go to them. You know.

1623
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 4: One the last question I wanted to ask Korean. I

1624
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:40,400
Speaker 4: was always curious about your recording process for The Sea.

1625
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 4: You mentioned earlier that you know, that was when your

1626
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 4: husband had died, and so from what I've read, part

1627
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 4: of it was recorded prior, and then the other half was.

1628
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 3: How did you make it through that process?

1629
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 2: I was going to say it happened. I think it

1630
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 2: happened when we were recording Black.

1631
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 1: Lily, That's right.

1632
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 7: We had done some work take and then yeah, and

1633
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 7: we had done I've done this great jam with James

1634
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 7: Poison and it was like, oh this all this feels

1635
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 7: really good and I'm happy in this really happy place,

1636
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 7: and Jason was playing with Mark Ronson and it was

1637
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 7: things were looking so good for us, and then.

1638
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 1: Break and then I just remember the session stopped.

1639
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 2: And at first I was like, well, I guess you

1640
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:24,840
Speaker 2: didn't like where we were going with it.

1641
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:27,080
Speaker 1: I had no clue, and then they explained to me

1642
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:28,080
Speaker 1: what I can't remember.

1643
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 7: I think something something might have happened while we were on,

1644
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 7: while we were there, but then yeah, this all happened

1645
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 7: in the in the March in two thousand and eight.

1646
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 7: And then I guess after that I just sort of

1647
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 7: stopped making music. It kind of felt like the end

1648
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 7: of my life. And I was twenty nine, and you know,

1649
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 7: when you're twenty nine, you sort of think you're old,

1650
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 7: you know, because you're nearly thirty, and thirty is the

1651
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 7: end of your life, right, So I thought, well, you know,

1652
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 7: I've had this great life and I've done this, I've

1653
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:59,240
Speaker 7: had all this great you know, I've really enjoyed my music.

1654
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 7: Stuff that when you have an intense period, sometimes that

1655
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 7: eighteen months feels more expansive than it really is. So

1656
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 7: it felt like I've done a few years of this,

1657
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:11,640
Speaker 7: and then yeah, I just thought, Okay, that's the end

1658
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:14,680
Speaker 7: of my life. And then and they also it was

1659
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 7: so painful. I kind of couldn't imagine thirty nine, forty nine,

1660
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 7: fifty nine. I was just about how could I sort

1661
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 7: of carry on with this amount of physical pain? And

1662
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 7: then I guess, you know, anyone who's experienced grief is

1663
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 7: just like slowly, slowly, slowly, it's like the sound being

1664
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:34,639
Speaker 7: sort of turned back up again, and you find little

1665
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 7: moments or you find interest, so you find you cease.

1666
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:41,320
Speaker 7: I remember being in New York and seeing this couple

1667
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 7: and she was pregnantly had a little baby, and I

1668
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,799
Speaker 7: remember sort of thinking, oh, like I had a little pine

1669
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 7: for that, like, oh, in my future, I want to

1670
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 7: be a parent. I remember feeling that, and that was

1671
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 7: a little sort of crack of hope. And then, you know,

1672
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 7: or I'd sit at the piano and just get like

1673
01:26:57,560 --> 01:26:59,800
Speaker 7: two chords and think, oh, I want to finish that.

1674
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 7: There were just little bits of things, but it's a

1675
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 7: really really really really long time, you know. I And

1676
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 7: when I was touring the Sea, I was still very

1677
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 7: much in my sort of widowhood, and so I mean

1678
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:16,680
Speaker 7: it was it was useful to play the songs, but

1679
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 7: it was really difficult to play them as well. And

1680
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:22,599
Speaker 7: also it attracted to me a lot of people who

1681
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 7: were grieving too, which was very beautiful but also had

1682
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 7: its own weight to it. You know. I remember meeting

1683
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,600
Speaker 7: a couple after a show and they had lost a

1684
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,519
Speaker 7: child before it was born, and they wanted to talk

1685
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 7: to me about that, and they even wanted to show

1686
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:39,760
Speaker 7: me photographs, and I remember sort of thinking I am

1687
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 7: not sort of qualified for that, but at the same time,

1688
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:51,080
Speaker 7: here I am in this space, which is I'm standing

1689
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 7: on the stage talking about loss, and not many people

1690
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 7: that are saying that this moment, and so it was

1691
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:59,640
Speaker 7: just I'd meet people in the street they say I

1692
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:03,559
Speaker 7: lost my brother, I lost my mother, I lost my partner.

1693
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 7: People would write your letters I lost my husband, and

1694
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:08,599
Speaker 7: I just I felt in my heart were so open

1695
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 7: and bleeding in that time. You know, just just like

1696
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:14,760
Speaker 7: the naivety that you can have if you haven't experienced loss,

1697
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 7: you sort of walk around the world like, yeah, kind

1698
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 7: of in control of my life, and you know, like

1699
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 7: I just got to manifest this, and you just don't

1700
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 7: realize how everything can change. In a moment. So I

1701
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:28,640
Speaker 7: guess when I came through that grief, the place I

1702
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 7: arrived at was total gratitude at being alive, and you know,

1703
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:35,639
Speaker 7: and then I had my children, and then I felt

1704
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:38,160
Speaker 7: very differently about my life. I thought I really wanted

1705
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 7: to live, you know, I want to make it, you know,

1706
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 7: I want to make it and I want to survive

1707
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:44,920
Speaker 7: for them. So every day that I wake up, I'm

1708
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:46,479
Speaker 7: like an old person. You know, when you talk to

1709
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 7: an eighty year old and they say, you say, how

1710
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 7: are you and they say, well, I woke up today,

1711
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 7: you know, they say that, It's like that's what I'm like.

1712
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 7: Am I here? I am, I'm awake, you know, I'm here.

1713
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 7: Like I just feel this massive gratitude and massive joy

1714
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:07,360
Speaker 7: all the time because I have been so low to

1715
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:10,679
Speaker 7: the point where I felt I don't want this life.

1716
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 7: I don't want my life, and now I really really

1717
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 7: want it, really want it. So I'm really grateful and

1718
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:21,759
Speaker 7: definitely play music help me to articulate those thoughts.

1719
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 2: Well, I thank you for sharing that, and again I

1720
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 2: love No, I fucking love your album. And I you know,

1721
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 2: anyone listening now just please like give your support, like

1722
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:41,799
Speaker 2: this is really, really a great record and repeat listens

1723
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 2: over and over again. And you know, I can't wait

1724
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:46,639
Speaker 2: to see this live. I'm going to see you this

1725
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 2: week when you come to Blue Note. Of course, this

1726
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 2: will be on the air way after the fact, so

1727
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 2: if Corinth is in town then you need to support her.

1728
01:29:57,200 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 2: But thank you for doing this for us, and I

1729
01:29:59,160 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 2: appreciate you.

1730
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 7: Thanks, I appreciate it. Thanks everybody.

1731
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 2: Uh, this is Quest Love and thank you once again, Uh,

1732
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:09,160
Speaker 2: miss Ray for joining us.

1733
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:11,160
Speaker 1: And we'll see you guys on the next go round

1734
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 1: of Quest Love Supreme. All right, West Love Supreme is

1735
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,

1736
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

1737
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.