WEBVTT - Musk's Political Ambitions, CoreWeave's Big Purchase 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:13.119 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.959 from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.080 and Eva Low in San Francisco. 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:26.279 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. Musk's political aspirations in 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.880 focus after the Tesla CEO says he's formed a new 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:31.600 political party. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.320 Plus more tariff warnings from President Trump. Today, as countries 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.199 rush to negotiate trade deals, we bring the tech. 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:41.199 Angles and Cory've agrees to buy Core Scientific in a 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.960 nine billion dollar all stock transaction. We'll discuss that and 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.240 the rest of the tech m and a landscape. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:48.880 But first we get to these markets that come off 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:53.080 of record highs, anxiety building around the trade announcements, and 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.320 indeed where the negotiations will go down to the wire 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.600 come July ninth. I'm looking at the NaSTA one hundred 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.760 of by three quarters of percent at the moment ed 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.000 we're seeing stocks down, bonds down, dollar higher. But there 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.680 is one key company that drags from a points perspective, 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:07.440 and you've got it. 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.200 Yeah, that's our top story, and that is Tesla. The 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.959 stock down more than seven percent in the session, now 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.479 down more than twenty seven percent year to date, Musk 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.840 says he's formed the America Party. The concern from the 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:21.960 Cell side, in particular is that this is just more 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.760 distraction that must won't be as focused on Tesla as 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.600 he pursues these political ambitions. There's also the factor weighing 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.440 on the stock that is President Trump over the weekend, 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.840 commenting on the news of Musk setting up his own 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:35.720 political party. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.040 It's always been a two party system, and I think 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.479 starting a third party just hands to confusion. It really 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.039 seems to have been developed for two parties. Third parties 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.680 have never worked, so he can have fun with it. 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:50.560 But I think it's ridiculous. 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.720 Let's get it straight to Bluemeg's Max Chrafck and the 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.680 President thinks it's ridiculous. Big investors, analyst notes out today, 0:01:58.000 --> 0:01:59.200 think it's really worrying. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.040 Yeah, and you know President Trunk's Trump's political observation that 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.440 you know, third party candidates have generally not done well. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.800 That is true historically, And of course there's there's also 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.799 just the risk that you know, having a poor relationship 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.440 with the you know, the president of the United States, 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.640 with the party that's in power. As Musk is trending 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.919 towards is going to have negative consequences, not just for Tesla, 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.720 which of course does have you know, areas of exposure, 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.560 regulatory exposure as well as benefiting from these EV tax 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.920 credits that are about to go away, but also for 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.880 Musk's other companies, you know, SpaceX, massive government contractor some 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.200 of these other companies also depend on sort of regulatory 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.520 you know, good relations with regulators. So so lots and 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:46.760 lots of risk here for investors. 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:48.400 And I think that's what we're seeing in the stock 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.079 We're showing some of Musk's posts on X over the weekend, 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.200 as well as the president's response on True Social but 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.520 the catalyst was the big beautiful bill Max. I think 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.720 it'd be really helpful if you just exp lane this 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.720 basically difference in fiscal policy opinion here between elam Mosque 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:07.680 and the President of the United States. 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.000 Well, there's a question of fiscal policy opinion, whether or 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.440 not you agree that these tax cuts should have been 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:16.560 extended or I think from Musk's point of view, maybe 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.280 there should be more cuts to pay for them. But 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.160 then there's also the sort of vibes thing. You know, 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:26.320 Musk spent a lot of time and and you know, 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:31.280 hurt his popularity through doge you know, comes away cutting 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.959 you know, a little less than two hundred billion dollars 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.520 maybe best case from the deficit. And now he's reading 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.080 these headlines talking about trillions of dollars being added to 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.960 the deficit, you know, over a decade. And so so 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.280 I think I think there's a sort of personal affront. 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.720 And I also think it's important we not missed the 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.200 fact and Trump brought this up in his post that 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.840 there are aspects of this tax bill that are going 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.040 to affect the bottom line of Musk's companies. Now, it's 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.240 possible that as Tesla you know, pivots to Robotaxi, these 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:04.360 hits won't matter as much. But we're talking about significant money, 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.200 significant money that's going to make Tesla's cars more expensive 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.640 for consumers, and that's going to cut into Tesla's margins, 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.400 which we've already seen under pressure, you know, over the 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:15.280 last few quarters. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.680 And that's exactly why Annasov William Bair Blair actually downgraded 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.200 the stock today. JP Morgan said about forty percent hit 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.320 to profitability on the back of these regulatory changes. There 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.360 is one note of optimism, though, coming from Ralliant Global 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.400 advisors Jason Sue, who had said, look, this is kind 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.919 of the only option left to Elo Musk actually is 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.800 a savvy political move. What did you make of that nomax? 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.880 You know, I think there's always obviously always, you know, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:45.039 different interpretations and so on. You know what we saw 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.800 from investors when Musk and Donald Trump had their sort 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.359 of first blow up at the beginning of June, and 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.480 then then they kind of like seem to be patching 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.119 things up the stock started going better. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.640 I don't really I think you really. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.840 Have to squint to see how you starting some kind 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.760 of quicksotic third party is kind of a brilliant political move. 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.200 I think you know the consensus, you talk to Wall 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.360 Street investors, you talk to balls and bears. This is 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.640 not going to help the company. This is a drag 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.560 on the company. You know, no matter what your point 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.919 of view. Obviously there are some exceptions, and you know, 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.760 who knows that Elon Musk has has pulled stranger things 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.440 off before, So maybe this will turn out to be 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.520 some kind of brilliant political gambit. 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.960 Bloomberg's Max Chafkin, thank you very much. Let's continue the conversation. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.240 James fishback from Azoria partners. He is a former advisor 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.360 to the Department of Government Efficiency or DOGE, and he's 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.160 written an open letter to Tesla's board of directors calling 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.839 on them to meet with Elon Musk and seek clarity 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.120 over his political ambitions. Azoria is also postponing the listing 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.640 of its Azoria Tesla Convexity ETF. After Musk said he 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.960 was forming a new political party. James Fishback joins us, Now, 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.080 I think we just start with the basics, James, if 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.800 we can, Why did you write open letter to Tesla's 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.400 board and why do you think they need to understand 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.920 the formation of the America Party in the context of 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.920 whether or not is a net benefit to the company 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:13.479 and Tesla's future goals. 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:16.120 Well, good morning, Ed. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.320 The truth is that when you have a full time 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.800 CEO and Elon Musk, who has been an extraordinary CEO, 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.440 his time and energy needs to go to Tesla and 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.719 synergistic companies like Xai or SpaceX. 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:30.560 A political party. 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.880 Regardless of how I might feel or the President might 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.039 feel about how ridiculous this stunt is, it does not 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.200 help Tesla in any way, shape or form. I wrote 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.000 the Tesla board this weekend asking for one thing clarity. 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.320 Sit down with Elon Musk this week and clarify what 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.119 his full time obligation to Tesla will be in light 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.560 of this new political party. If he cannot, If he 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.240 cannot be Tesla's full time CEO, the boord what it 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.839 needs to take into that into account and needs to 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:03.960 hold him accountable. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.760 Has Tesla's Bullard responded to Aleta James. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.600 I have not heard back from Tesla's board yet. I'm 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:13.640 confident that this week they are going to have this 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.040 conversation with mister Musk. Let's just remind everyone listening. Elon 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.040 Musk is free to burn his own money in a 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.640 political party. He is not free to bring shareholders like 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.920 us along with him. He does not own Tesla. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:28.640 We do. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.240 And if Elon Musk does not want. 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.760 To be the full time CEO of Tesla, he should 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.680 tell us now, because starting a new political party, with 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.160 the travel, the candidate recruitment, the training and the organizing 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.960 that comes with that is not a wise use of 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:43.440 his time. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:43.680 Ed. 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.760 He has been an extraordinary engineer and visionary leader for 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.800 Tesla and for SpaceX. I have FSD in my car. 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.280 I know you do as well. It is a magical technology. 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.880 Robotaxi is brilliant. It's rolling out right now in Austin. 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.840 That's what his time and energy should be focused on, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.360 not trying to sabotage the President of the United States, James. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.360 Can you remind our audience your exact exposure to Tesla, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.480 how much you own? How that is the scale within 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.440 assets under management of Azoria. 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.600 Yeah, absolutely so. This Tesla Convexity ETF very simply was 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:21.120 designed to combine the power of owning an asymmetric stock 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.400 like Tesla with asymmetric call options on an asymmetric stock 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:26.280 like Tesla. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:27.360 And so this was. 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.720 Upwards of a billion dollar investment we were going to 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.760 make on behalf of retail and institutional investors over the 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.480 next few months in Tesla. We can't do that in 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.040 good faith right now because you have a CEO who 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:43.120 is putting personal political ambitions ahead of his obligations and medicaid, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.800 the detriment of shareholders and Caroline, there's a much bigger 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.880 story at play here in America. We have seen CEOs 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.839 who have pursued and imposed a political agenda at the 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.080 moral and financial detriment to their companies, which is why 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:00.160 tomorrow we are still publicly listing or Azoria five hundred 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.800 Meritocracy ETF, which invests in the top five hundred companies 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.720 in America and excludes any company with a political DEI 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.760 hiring target. Those are moral failures and their financial ones 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:12.120 as well. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:16.640 Will that exclude Tesla? And what of the ETF future 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.920 plans If you don't hear back from the board. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.560 Well, look, we have to hear what the board is 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:23.280 going to say. 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:23.680 First. 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.480 My biggest concern now is that mister Musk, who have 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.840 a lot of respect for that, he is going to 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.160 use his position at Tesla and resources and time and 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.440 energy that could be better spent on optimist robots, on robotaxi, 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.800 on the new model. Why rollout that he's going to 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.200 use that time and energy on this new political party. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.120 Whether you agree with it or not, the truth is 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.040 the CEO of a company has a full time obligation 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.640 to that company's employees and shareholders, and so we need 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.680 to see clarity if we are going to revive the 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.480 Asoria Tesla Convexity ETF. I hope we get that clarity 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.440 care line, because Tesla is the best AI investment that 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.320 investors can and make right now. Between the energy business, 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.920 Humanoid robot's full self driving and robotaxi. This is a 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.800 compelling stock to invest in, but we can't do that 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.080 right now when his political ambitions or front center. 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.600 James Tesla is the only publicly traded name in Elon Inc. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:20.559 Across many companies, but he is also CEO of SpaceX 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.960 and of Xai and has leadership role at Neuralink. And 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.400 what I hear all the time from investors in XAI 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:32.520 is actually they feel that's his primary focus. XAI in 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.040 the run up to the November election, Musk was the 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.240 biggest donor. What he wants to do with the America 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:42.480 Party is back candidates for House and Senate seats. So 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.720 how does that work. He's already stretched across multiple companies. 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:49.840 What difference does it make if he's putting his own 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.480 wealth towards a political endeavor. He's basically continuing with something 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.319 he's been doing eight or nine months anyway. 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.840 Yeah, that's a great point. So his work at XAI 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:05.280 or SpaceX directly complements his work at Tesla. So when 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.280 you talk about the technologies, the GPUs, the dojo models 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.960 it's being used at Tesla, those are also carrying over 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:15.359 to XAI. The synergies, the physical materials, the engineering breakthroughs 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.600 at SpaceX have carried over into the cyber truck, for example. 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.960 So there's obvious synergies between his work at Tesla and 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:26.679 at SpaceX and at XAI. No synergies exist between Tesla 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.640 and its AI efforts. And starting a political party that 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.480 seeks to sabotage the President of the United States who 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:37.680 just delivered one point two trillion dollars in spending cuts 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:38.960 over the next ten years. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:39.840 I don't get Elon. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.040 With all due respect to Elon, he promised a trillion 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.839 dollars in spending cuts over the last six months, didn't 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.839 come anywhere close to delivering that, and now he wants 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.440 to start a political party. Meanwhile, President Trump just signed 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.760 in the big beautiful bill this past weekend that actually 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.800 delivered not just one trillion dollars in spending cuts, but 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.600 a record investment in our border security. Companies like Matroid 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.000 benefiting from that deploying AI vision technology at the border 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:09.319 to stop human trafficking and drug smugglers. And then second, 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.720 record tax relief for working families who for under the 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.040 Biden Harris administration, we're getting the very short end of 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:16.400 the day. 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.160 Bringing it back to the Tesla perspective here, though in 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.880 particular rather than political one. What about Musk's own pay package? 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.800 What about potentially thinking of succession planning here? How is 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:29.959 the board likely to respond to that? How are your 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.920 retail investors that you've been building an ETF for going 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.480 to respond to that? To think, that's a great question. 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.360 Elon deserves to get paid for the extraordinary work he 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.000 has done at Tesla. What that judge in Delaware did 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:50.760 is nothing short of political lawfare, and Tesla shareholders, including Azoria, 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.120 want him to be paid and paid hugely for the 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.480 contributions he's made and the wealth that he's generated. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:57.760 For all of us. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.280 So that is a separate issue. Of course, anytime you 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.360 have a CEO as big and as bold and as 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.920 visionary as Elon, you have to think about succession plans. 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.440 I trust Robin, I trust the board to have this 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.760 conversation with Elon this week to clarify his new America Party, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.280 not on the merits of what the party stands for, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.760 but what it means for his full time obligations to's 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:20.880 Tesla as. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:25.440 CEO Zoria, CEO James fishback. Thanks for joining us today. 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:35.160 Appreciate it. President Trump is said to announce more trade 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.560 deals and deliver tariff warnings today. It's ahead of the 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.800 Wednesday deadline. This comes as US officials actually signal that 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.120 trading partners will have potentially until August first before tarif's 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.120 actually kick in. For more Bluebergs, Tyler Kendall is joining 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.200 us now. So the clock is ticking less than an hour. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:52.199 What do we expect to hear? 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.280 Yeah, hey, Caroline, as you said, we're almost two twelve 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.600 pm Eastern, which is when President Trump said that we 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.560 could expect the first round of his tariff letters to 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.280 be sent down. He said to expect twelve to fifteen 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.360 countries to receive them, but at the moment, it really 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.680 is unclear which ones are going to and how they're 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.439 out ultimately going to respond. 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:12.920 Now, our understanding is. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.040 The letters are going to be out in the next 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.800 coming days, but really the tariffs aren't going to be 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.280 enacted for about three weeks time August first, which would 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.000 suggest that the administration is open to negotiating further here 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.040 despite the July ninth deadline coming up on Wednesday, and 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.840 we heard the Treasury Secretary Scott Vessont basically say as 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:32.960 much in an interview over the weekend, saying that the 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.400 playbook from the administration is what they would like to 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.560 call maximum pressure. They're going to send out these letters 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.120 in a bid to get our trading partners to put 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.040 their best offer on the table. Now, I'll quickly point 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.200 out one development that we've been tracking, which is really 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.440 sort of a reversal in which countries seem to be 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.760 getting priority here when it comes to talks. The administration 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.600 has expressed frustration when it comes to Japan, for example, 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.040 And you had President Trump this morning threatening an additional 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.120 ten percent tariff on any country that aligns with the 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.720 bricks after those that group of nations held the summit 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.360 over the weekend, which could spell trouble for India, of course. 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.960 But Caroline and Ed pair that with the confirmation this 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.760 morning that the European Union's arsenal On Vonderlin had a 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.600 phone call with President Trump just yesterday, and what really 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.560 does feel like a reversal of favor for the trading block, 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.280 which we had been, our understanding had been was really 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.920 at the end of the negotiating line. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:25.120 Boo Books. 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.880 Tyler Kendall from Washington, DC. Thank you very much. Let's 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.520 get more on global tariffs in their impact join us now. 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.240 Is Liza Tobeing Ghano, Global managing director, your trade lies 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:39.040 there is advising on geopolitical risk. You heard Tyler's reporting there. 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.560 How much is this about managing expectations versus getting something 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.400 definitive from this administration today on what has been agreed 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.120 and what will be agreed in the weeks to come. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.600 Right, Good morning, ed in Caroline, It's nice to be 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:54.000 on with you. 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:54.680 Yeah. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.960 Secretary Scott Bessett has messaged this as a maximum pressure 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.280 can so they're trying to ratchet up the pressure and 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:07.360 get more concessions from US trading partners. It does seem 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.520 that by kicking the deadline back to August first, they 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.160 are needing more political wins. They need more deals in 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.960 order to make this look like more of a success. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.160 But what I think markets may be missing at the 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.280 moment is that there is another big chapter in President 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.160 Trump's trade agenda looming in the background, and that's the 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.880 sectoral terriffs. So of course what we're all obsessing about 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.960 right now is the reciprocal tariffs, and there's a lot 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.120 of uncertainty the uncertainty keeps extending, and the US courts 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.920 are raising more questions about the legality of these reciprocal tariffs. 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:48.280 But by contrast, the Department of Commerce meanwhile is undertaking 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.680 these investigations to lay the groundwork for sectoral tariffs. These 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.120 are the Section two thirty two investigations into things like 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.320 semiconductors and pharma and various medals and a whole host 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:05.240 of other key things. And if you'll recall this investigation, 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.760 Commerce has this authority in terms of looking at the 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:13.280 national security vulnerability. So that's still looming. It's been delayed 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.439 by these trade negotiations, but it's still coming, and it's 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.160 arguably a lot more consequential than za we'recal tariffs. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.720 A lot of that directly relates to China, right, And 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.640 the latest headline is the President warning an additional ten 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.639 percent tariff in response to anti American policies, as he 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.320 calls them from bricks nations. But if you consider the 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.679 bricks nations and where this administration is focused, all of 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.160 these different negotiations happen in parallel. Do you think China 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.479 gets more time and is more of a priority than 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:44.160 anyone else. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.359 Yeah, there's a few trade partners that are sort of 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.560 on a separate track and they're not really part of 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:57.199 these ongoing reciprocal tariff negotiations. China, Canada, and Mexico. You 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.800 know Canada and Mexico of course, because they're USMCA trade partners, 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.879 and they're on a separate track. But China, because the 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.520 President has been saying that he has a deal already 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.159 with China, this is coming out of the London trade talks. 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.320 What you really have there is more of just a 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:18.480 fragile truce that centered around rare earths and export controls, 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.639 and so it's very fragile. I think the administration would 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.479 like to keep the door open to further trade talks 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.400 and maybe some kind of a phase two with China. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.399 They would like to see China open up more, but 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.960 of course it takes two to tango, and China has 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:40.960 consistently disappointed US trade negotiators, and what Washington may try 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:46.199 to offer towards Beijing as concessions or conciliatory diplomatic moves 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.639 will be read in Beijing as softness and weakness, and 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:54.080 they will push harder for more concessions. So I think 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:58.280 there's a lot of fragility here, and either side could 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.520 tip over this Apple car in terms of this kind 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.520 of fragile US China truth, Oh. 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.280 Apple cart takes me exactly where I want to go 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.440 because for us in the world of technology, Apple has 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.199 been the front line of fire when it comes to 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.360 tariff exposure. We also think of the chip the semiconductor names, 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.879 and you mentioned section two thirty two. All of this 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.520 give us the advice you're giving leadership at Corporate America 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.840 right now. Do you navigate tariff's like this or do 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.720 you ultimately take the takeaway is build more in America 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.320 and signal more rather than see the realities of where 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.119 tariffs go in the next month or week. 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.080 I think with China, you have to have a China strategy, 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.720 and that has to take the medium and long term 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.040 into account. It has to take into account China's track 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.960 record and the track record over decades really of US 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:52.680 China trade negotiations eventually disappointing and breaking down. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.000 So I think you kind of have to bake that in. 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.960 What remains to be seen is how seriously the administration 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:05.480 will back up President Trump's desire to reindustrialize here in 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.840 the United States. There's some areas where this sort of 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.399 conflict among goals is quite striking. For one thing, the 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.800 US needs a strategy on rare earth. I think the 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.880 US dependency on China for rare earth and permanent magnets 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.200 has become really a hot topic that everyone's tracking now, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.920 but we still don't have the US still doesn't have 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:34.040 a strategy to deal with the lack of demand. Really, 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.000 and what you saw in the big beautiful Bill over 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:41.600 the weekend was there had been some measures in place 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.240 on the green energy side to put more funding towards 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.120 solar and wind power that would have created more sustainable 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:53.359 demand for the off take of these nascent rare earth projects. 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.520 That was stripped out of the bill unfortunately. So I 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.040 think you need to see more, you know, an array 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:05.639 of support beyond terrors to strategies to reindustrializing in the 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:06.399 United States. 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.520 Lasotomin, I'm Gano Global. Great to catch up with you. 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.760 Thank you now coming up TikTok maybe building a brand 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.199 new app for US users. That story is next in 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:25.080 talking tech. This is in berg tech. It's time now 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.960 for talking tech. And first up, Huawei's Ai Research Lab 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.440 is pushing back on allegations and relied on rival models 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.240 to develop its own platform now. The accusations come after 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.040 the company published a source code for its PANDU pro 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.800