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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief Variety. My guests today

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Speaker 1: are the leaders of Alloy Entertainment. You may not know

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Speaker 1: the name Alloy, but you know their TV shows and

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Speaker 1: movies Gossip Girl, Pretty Little Liars, You, Vampire Diaries, Sisterhood

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Speaker 1: of the Traveling Pants, Purple Hearts, and the Ohso Charming.

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Speaker 1: You are so not invited to my about mitzvah. The

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Speaker 1: company has an unusual approach to developing content because it

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Speaker 1: also has a very busy book division that provides the

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Speaker 1: vast majority of the ip that drives the company. Here

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Speaker 1: in this interview, we get the lowdown on Alloy's unusual

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Speaker 1: business model from three key players CEO Leslie Morgenstein, TV

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Speaker 1: chief Gina Girolamo, and film leader Elisa Koplovitz Dutton. The

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Speaker 1: trio explain here how they've been able to thrive in

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Speaker 1: the YA space and why they are now looking to

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Speaker 1: grow up a bit, as they describe it. Morgenstein also

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Speaker 1: walks us through how the company wound up being owned

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Speaker 1: by Warner Brothers but still operates with great autonomy. That's

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Speaker 1: all coming up after the break, and we're back with

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Speaker 1: more from the leadership team at Alloy Entertainment. Les Morgenstein,

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Speaker 1: Gina Jerromo, Elisa Dutton of Alloy Entertainment.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for inviting me to.

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Speaker 1: Your beautiful offices here on the Warner Brothers lot. It's

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Speaker 1: my first podcast recording of twenty twenty four, and I'm

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Speaker 1: excited because Alloy Entertainment is a company I've covered a

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Speaker 1: long time, but I have really wanted to get to

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Speaker 1: know you all better and get a little bit behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes of how you create your content less from

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Speaker 1: the thirty thousand foot view, can you tell me sort

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Speaker 1: of what is Alloy's approach to nurturing and generating content.

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Speaker 1: You have an incredible track record over the last fifteen

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Speaker 1: twenty years of very buzzy television shows that really have

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Speaker 1: penetrated the culture in a way that is hard to

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Speaker 1: in our mass fractured media environment these days. What is

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Speaker 1: your approach? Sure?

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Speaker 3: And thank you for coming here and visiting with us,

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Speaker 3: and we're pleased to be your first pot of the year.

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Speaker 3: It's a pretty organic story and IP is such a

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Speaker 3: buzzword or buzz phrase these days, and companies are so

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Speaker 3: desirous of it. We never sat down and said we're

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Speaker 3: going to become an IP company. It was more of

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Speaker 3: a process of a group of people who love storytelling

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Speaker 3: and had a good knack for what's a commercial idea

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Speaker 3: building a business over many years. So the company started

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Speaker 3: in the book business and originally was a production company

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Speaker 3: for hire, producing a team book series called Sweet Valley High,

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Speaker 3: and eventually.

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Speaker 4: Got smart enough to know that.

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Speaker 3: It needed to own its own properties and began brainstorming

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Speaker 3: ideas like what's something we want to see, what's something

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Speaker 3: we think will resonate with the audience, and putting those

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Speaker 3: ideas together with great writers, so a nose for concept

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Speaker 3: and a nose for talent, and that shop eventually produced

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Speaker 3: Vampire Diaries and The Sister of the Traveling Pants and

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Speaker 3: Gossip Girl and a very popular middle grade book series

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Speaker 3: that became a movie called The Click, and.

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Speaker 4: Pretty Little Liars and The Hundred and You. And the

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Speaker 4: thing that.

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Speaker 3: Really makes us unique, which you mentioned at the center

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Speaker 3: of it, is a group of creative people who develop

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Speaker 3: ideas internally and then go out and find the best talent,

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Speaker 3: whether that's a novelist or a TV showrunner or a

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Speaker 3: screenwriter to make it come to life.

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Speaker 1: So that's an interesting It sounds like a large part

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Speaker 1: of the ideas, the concepts that become books and television

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Speaker 1: shows and potentially movies start in house and then you

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Speaker 1: marry the writer. Would you say that's more common than

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Speaker 1: a writer coming to you with a pitch.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean these days we do have lots of

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Speaker 3: relationships with book writers where we'll have a long term

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Speaker 3: deal and it will be more collaborative, so sit down

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Speaker 3: with the writer and just have brainstorming sessions.

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Speaker 4: But the traditional.

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Speaker 3: Model, which we still employ on at least half of

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Speaker 3: our new book projects and we produce about twenty books

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Speaker 3: a year, come from our group. And there's a team

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Speaker 3: of editor writers in New York who get together on

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Speaker 3: a regular basis. This team in LA less frequently and

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Speaker 3: they just have creative sessions, and that can be very freeform.

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Speaker 3: Come into the room with an idea, can be a

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Speaker 3: pitch off of a magazine article or our show you

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Speaker 3: went to, or it can be very specific like it

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Speaker 3: was many years ago when Pretty Little Liars was birthed,

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Speaker 3: and that was a development assignment, which actually came from

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Speaker 3: our TV office.

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Speaker 4: And the problem is, what's a team Desperate Housewives?

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Speaker 3: And on the face of it, that doesn't make a

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Speaker 3: lot of sense, like teenagers.

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Speaker 4: Are not housewives.

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Speaker 3: But when we talked about what was at the heart

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Speaker 3: of that show, murder Mystery and then I deal like Suburbs,

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Speaker 3: you kind of see that DNA in what pretty old

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Speaker 3: liars came to be. So getting back to your question,

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Speaker 3: the model has been and will continue to be.

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Speaker 4: We are self generating.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing that makes Alloy a viable business regardless

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Speaker 3: of what's going around us in the industry.

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Speaker 1: You're not beholden to the big pitch with the three

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Speaker 1: Oscar winners and the clock and you must pay, you know,

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Speaker 1: a small fortune to even get your foot in the door.

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Speaker 3: Correct, And we're not chasing the hot new book. We're

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Speaker 3: not going after the Sunday New York Times magazine article.

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Speaker 3: We are coming up with great ideas we believe in

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Speaker 3: and nurturing them over time. And like I said, you know,

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Speaker 3: the various teams of the book team and Gina and

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Speaker 3: TV and Lisa in movies has done a fantastic job

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Speaker 3: marroring those ideas with great writers.

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Speaker 1: So I would love your perspective on how does it

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Speaker 1: how does it inform and help the process of developing

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Speaker 1: television shows or movies when you are working with literary properties,

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Speaker 1: people that are thinking in novelistic form, but you've got

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Speaker 1: such a you know, you've got a hand in shaping

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Speaker 1: that novel.

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Speaker 2: Is that that? That's again a kind of a.

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Speaker 1: Twist on the on the typical I love this book,

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Speaker 1: I'm an option in the manuscript.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I'll jump in and I would say

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Speaker 5: that we are all huge book lovers and TV and

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Speaker 5: film lovers.

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Speaker 6: It's a natural instinct to want to protect the concept

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Speaker 6: as much as possible, but also understanding that each medium has,

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Speaker 6: you know, specific rules for what works if you will,

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Speaker 6: and so I think working with the book team in

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Speaker 6: New York on a specific idea, they'll sometimes ask us

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Speaker 6: to weigh in early in the stages of a book

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Speaker 6: being developed. If it's eyed for television, we can give

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Speaker 6: feedback that would help expand the world or the characters

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Speaker 6: or the stories, or once the book is written, when

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Speaker 6: we're meeting with writers, we can.

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Speaker 5: Talk about ways to adapt several characters into only a few,

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Speaker 5: or you know, hyper focus on a location of a

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Speaker 5: book and give it specificity that would make the television

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Speaker 5: show even more special. So I would say that's that's

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Speaker 5: part of the joy of being on the ground floor

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Speaker 5: in this company. It's all very fluid and we all

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Speaker 5: communicate to one another regularly.

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Speaker 1: So you can even think in terms of seasons like

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Speaker 1: you can you can project out ahead on something you

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Speaker 1: feel very strongly about.

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Speaker 5: In terms of how to keep it going right, like

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Speaker 5: potential something absolutely, yeah. I think it's whether it's something

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Speaker 5: that we option outside of our library or something within

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Speaker 5: our library. And you know, oftentimes we're working with books

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Speaker 5: that are multiple book series, so we can sit and

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Speaker 5: give a writer five novels that continue the foundation that's

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Speaker 5: built in the first book and expands the world in

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Speaker 5: a way that they can then take on.

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Speaker 7: That was the case with Pretty Little Liars.

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Speaker 5: When the final version of the show premiered, the seventh

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Speaker 5: book had just been released, so those writers had seven

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Speaker 5: novels that they could dive into and pull story and

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Speaker 5: character and.

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Speaker 1: Murders, and from a sales and revenue standpoint, like do

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Speaker 1: you see is it kind of.

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Speaker 2: A virtuous circle. The books come and the you know,

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Speaker 2: when you coordinate that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: The reality of the book business today is the company

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Speaker 3: has really transitioned from being a book business with a

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Speaker 3: film and TV office to being a film and TV

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Speaker 3: business that has an internal IP generation machine that in

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Speaker 3: great success, is profitable. But we now are much more

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Speaker 3: cognizant of our book business exists to feed film and

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Speaker 3: TV and the communication is much more frequent than it

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Speaker 3: used to be, and it's much more two ways. So

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Speaker 3: there are many books that have started as that would

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Speaker 3: be a great idea for a show or that would

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Speaker 3: be a great idea for a movie, and recently Purple

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Speaker 3: Hearts is an example of that, where that began as

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Speaker 3: a movie pitch and one of our executives here had

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Speaker 3: read or heard a true story about contract military marriages

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Speaker 3: and called names it is this the basis for a

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Speaker 3: romantic movie? And I was like, Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 3: Let's just get going on a script. So we did that,

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Speaker 3: and unfortunately at the time we're on a able to

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Speaker 3: set it up. But we loved it so much, so

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Speaker 3: let's turn it into a book. And we did, and

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Speaker 3: we published the book and then came back to it

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Speaker 3: in features, and obviously we're fortunate enough to put it

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Speaker 3: together with Sophia Carson.

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Speaker 4: And Wiz Allen, and the movie went on. It was

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Speaker 4: a great success.

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Speaker 3: But that that is typical of the model now where

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Speaker 3: the starting point can be over here and can go

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Speaker 3: back to the book team, and the book team will.

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Speaker 4: Jump on it if it makes sense in this book

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 1: How is it different working at Alloy in this process

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Speaker 1: than in you know past in your past lives, at

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Speaker 1: other at other creative shops.

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Speaker 8: The book's really become our superpower because it gives us

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Speaker 8: the kind of luxury of time to invest and be very.

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Speaker 9: Hands on and involved as producers.

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Speaker 8: We are kind of we have a we have a

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Speaker 8: healthy slate, but because we are not we have this

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Speaker 8: kind of stable of books and continuous kind of new

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Speaker 8: new flow of material coming our way.

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Speaker 9: We can really just focus on the work, which is

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Speaker 9: a luxury. And I would say that it's.

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Speaker 8: Wonderful to be able to you know, if you have

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Speaker 8: a feature idea, or you hear something that a studio

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Speaker 8: is really looking for. To be able to run that

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Speaker 8: by our book business and then talk about what that

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Speaker 8: would look like in book form is amazing because we

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Speaker 8: all know the studios get really excited when they hear

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Speaker 8: that there's a book, and the publishers get.

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Speaker 9: Really excited when they hear that there could be a movie.

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Speaker 8: So it really does become a circular economy, and in

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Speaker 8: the best possible way, and a very creative one. And

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Speaker 8: the other thing about the books, and what makes this

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Speaker 8: different from other jobs, is that sometimes you'll get a

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Speaker 8: call on or sometimes you'll be.

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Speaker 9: Able to take a book that is out of print.

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Speaker 8: In the case of you know, two years ago, there

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Speaker 8: were two books that were from the early aughts.

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Speaker 9: One was You're So.

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Speaker 8: Not Invited to My Botman's Fat, which was a title

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Speaker 8: that just we kept saying, this is a movie, but

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Speaker 8: how do we put together and convince people that it's

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Speaker 8: not a niche, that it can really resonate on this

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Speaker 8: universal level. And we found a writer and sent it

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Speaker 8: to Adam Sandler and he said yes, and the rest

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Speaker 8: is history.

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Speaker 9: But that book was not a new book. It was

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Speaker 9: not a hot book. Similarly, Horoscope was a book that

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Speaker 9: I mean, I didn't even know.

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Speaker 8: I'm pretty aware of all of our library and it's

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Speaker 8: a deep library, but I had never even heard of Horoscope.

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Speaker 9: And we got a call.

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Speaker 8: And now that movie is coming out in ment so

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Speaker 8: sometimes it really is the gift that keeps on giving.

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Speaker 8: It can be very surprising how deep the well is.

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Speaker 8: People will say I'm looking for a boarding school movie,

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Speaker 8: and in fact we probably have three of them. So

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Speaker 8: that makes it very different from other positions.

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Speaker 6: Because we have such strong foundation in our concepts in

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Speaker 6: our books, we're patient with the adaptations, so similar to

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Speaker 6: what Alisa was saying earlier, we're not chasing it. And

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Speaker 6: so there have been several iterations of some of the

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Speaker 6: shows you've mentioned during the development process that didn't move forward,

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Speaker 6: but we never gave up on the concept because we

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Speaker 6: believed it would be a successful series. So that's something

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Speaker 6: I think also all of us working at the company,

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Speaker 6: you know, at Leasta and I are ten plus years,

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Speaker 6: we have such a depth of knowledge of the material

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Speaker 6: that once we meet a writer or we hear a

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Speaker 6: target that someone's looking for, we can reach back in

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Speaker 6: and say, you know, we tried this five times, but

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Speaker 6: maybe this is the one that's going to make it.

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Speaker 7: Is the luxury to be a because that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, that's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you.

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Speaker 9: Lesson, you know, what.

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Speaker 1: What kind of big picture learning is about the modern

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Speaker 1: television landscape.

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Speaker 2: Did you learn from the you experience?

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Speaker 1: You know, in the industry, it was very close. We

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Speaker 1: tracked that you started. You know, it was a very

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Speaker 1: distinctive show. Incredible star in Penn Badgeley, who we had

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Speaker 1: Variety had as a cover feature last year in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, a very successful cover for us. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was a great It was the same show. It

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Speaker 1: was a great show. It did not succeed on the

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Speaker 1: linear basic cable. It went to Netflix, and we know

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Speaker 1: the risk.

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Speaker 5: We were all very disappointed in how it performed on

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Speaker 5: Lifetime because we knew in our heart that we had

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Speaker 5: something really special.

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Speaker 7: We all believed it was really special, and then.

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Speaker 5: When we heard that Lifetime was picking us up to

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Speaker 5: a second season, it was all very exciting. We had

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Speaker 5: met Lesson, I had met with Bella Bajara and Stacy

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Speaker 5: Silverman at Netflix when they were running the international division,

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Speaker 5: and we said, we have the show at Lifetime, here's

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Speaker 5: the script. This could be something for your international agenda

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Speaker 5: because they were buying American shows and so them as

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Speaker 5: originals for Netflix. And literally twenty four hours later, Bella

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Speaker 5: called and Stacy called us and said we want.

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Speaker 7: This, and so that's a good call.

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Speaker 5: We were able to go to the studio and say

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Speaker 5: Netflix wants this for international, regardless of what Lifetime thinks

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Speaker 5: of us and what our future.

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Speaker 7: Is at Lifetime, we have this piece and so that

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Speaker 7: deal was made. Do you want to continue to keep?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 5: So that deal was made and then Lifetime did pick

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Speaker 5: us up for a season two. They had a twenty

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Speaker 5: four hour kill switch, and they it seemed as though

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Speaker 5: they were not going to they were going to renege

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Speaker 5: on the second season. So we immediately called Netflix and said,

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Speaker 5: you're going to be able to have the show if

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Speaker 5: you want it, and they absolutely stood up and grabbed

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Speaker 5: it and put it on Linny. They put it on

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Speaker 5: the domestic platform almost a year before they were planning to.

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Speaker 7: And that's when it became an enormous hit.

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Speaker 1: And it was interesting because it was like there wasn't

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Speaker 1: a gigantic marketing campaign.

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Speaker 2: It just found its audience.

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Speaker 1: Is it just as simple as there's a whole lot

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Speaker 1: more eighteen to forty year olds watching Netflix than there

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Speaker 1: are Lifetime these days?

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Speaker 3: In this case, I don't think it was a question

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Speaker 3: of linear versus streaming so much as that is where

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Speaker 3: did the where does the demo for the show live

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Speaker 3: and how do they want to watch the show?

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Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, and I think, look, they've been.

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Speaker 3: Tremendous partners and really supportive of the show. But I

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Speaker 3: think in this instance, it was the audience finding the

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Speaker 3: show more than the show being served up to them.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you on just a a on the

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Speaker 1: more macroeconomic level. You know, obviously a lot of changes

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Speaker 1: in television. The syndication market is in, you know, various

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Speaker 1: stages of being kind of reinvented. Does that cons earn

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Speaker 1: you long term as a producer of series?

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Speaker 9: Does because we.

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Speaker 3: Are fortunate to have had several hit shows go the

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Speaker 3: distance under the traditional model, and we have the benefit

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Speaker 3: of seeing the money those shows kick off. We're also

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Speaker 3: fortunate enough to have screaming hits and see the money

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Speaker 3: those shows kick off.

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Speaker 4: And it's a different business.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I think the business is very profitable,

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Speaker 3: it's very sustainable. It is not comparable, and we would

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Speaker 3: love to have opportunities where they're second and third revenue streams.

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Speaker 4: From our shows.

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Speaker 3: And until there's a shift in the model, which maybe

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Speaker 3: there will be, we're gonna continue to plug away and

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Speaker 3: do what we do, but.

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Speaker 4: Would I love to see some return to that traditional model. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Do I see anyone diving in and kind of paving

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Speaker 4: the way. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see kind of as we really

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Speaker 1: kind of shake out from the impact of the strikes

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Speaker 1: and all the all the evaluation that I'm very interested

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Speaker 1: to see whether if there's a there might be a

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Speaker 1: bounce back in linear television that could be completely you know,

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Speaker 1: delusional optimism.

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Speaker 2: On my part as a fan of broadcast television.

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Speaker 3: I think the Yellowstone and only Murderers I'm putting in

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Speaker 3: quotations experiments.

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Speaker 7: What a concept.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that's indicative of where the business is going,

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Speaker 3: where shows are platformed across right windows simultaneously or reaching

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Speaker 3: as broad an audience as possible, so.

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Speaker 4: That the marketing dollars really can be as effective as

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Speaker 4: they can.

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Speaker 3: Be, and you bring down the upfront costs and share

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Speaker 3: them back any more.

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Speaker 1: Don't turn the page just yet. We'll be back with

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Speaker 1: more from Alloy Entertainment after this pause for monetization, and

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Speaker 1: we're back with more from the Home of Gossip Girl,

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Speaker 1: Pretty Little Liars, and you, Elisa.

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Speaker 2: The film business is no walk in the park either.

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Speaker 1: Right now, Can you tell me how you approach Do

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Speaker 1: you look for a certain amount of things that can

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Speaker 1: be done theatrically?

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Speaker 2: Do you look to sell straight to streamers?

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Speaker 1: Some titles tell me about sort of how you go

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Speaker 1: about developing your slate.

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Speaker 9: We have had great success in streaming.

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Speaker 7: As of late.

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Speaker 9: On Netflix and three.

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Speaker 4: Number ones in a row.

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Speaker 9: So we have been very fortunate that our audience is

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Speaker 9: the alloy audience.

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Speaker 8: Is there, but they show up for streaming, whether it's

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Speaker 8: on their phone, on their laptop, whatever. I think that

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Speaker 8: that's been great for us, but we still love the

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Speaker 8: theatrical experience and hope to make movies for theatrical.

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Speaker 9: It was obviously a joy to see.

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Speaker 8: People you know return in some form over this past

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Speaker 8: year and post COVID, and we hope to do more

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Speaker 8: of it. That said, I think streaming will be a

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Speaker 8: big core of our business because that's where our audience

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Speaker 8: primarily lives. Although my daughters fifteen tells me that on

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Speaker 8: her TikTok feed theaters are coming back, so let's.

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Speaker 3: Know, we would love for that to be part of

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Speaker 3: our business. But we also want to have wins. So

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Speaker 3: if we developing a movie like Purple Hearts or you're

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Speaker 3: setum invited to my bio Mitzvah. We are cognizant of

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Speaker 3: who the audience for those movies are, and.

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Speaker 4: We want to put it.

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Speaker 3: In a place where it's going to have success and

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Speaker 3: where we are going to have success and not have

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Speaker 3: the pressure of delivering on something that in this current

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Speaker 3: market feels really challenged. We want to remain the biggest

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Speaker 3: fish in the YA pond.

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Speaker 4: But we are really running our grown up business, and

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Speaker 4: if you look at our past eighteen months, our two.

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Speaker 3: Biggest successes are you Joel Goldberg's in his late thirties

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Speaker 3: at this point and Purple Hearts, which was a grown

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Speaker 3: up romance, and so we are focused on that. Our

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Speaker 3: book business currently is about twenty five percent books for adults,

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Speaker 3: although WYAT titles.

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Speaker 4: Are read by adult women.

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Speaker 3: By the end of twenty five, it's going to be

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Speaker 3: fifty to fifty and that's really the focus.

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Speaker 4: And that's driven by a couple things.

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Speaker 3: One is the CWN free form aren't here anymore, and

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Speaker 3: they were the primary buyers of our team shows or

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Speaker 3: shows with team protagonists.

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Speaker 1: Even if we were sitting here five years ago, that

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00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: would have sounded like, oh, come on, you're kidding, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's just a measure, and it's not a finger pointing,

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Speaker 1: but it's just a measure of how the market has changed.

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Speaker 3: They for so many years were so vital to our

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Speaker 3: business and such great partners, and we had just phenomenal

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Speaker 3: success together. So that being said, we need to pivot

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Speaker 3: the business. We're still gonna have YA shows and YA movies,

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Speaker 3: but there.

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Speaker 4: Are fewer homes.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you, lets to kind of complete the circle.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned that you acquired the company some your like

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00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: around late ninety nineteen nineties, and then at some point

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers came in as the owner. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: about what led to that, what that has brought to you.

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Speaker 3: There have been many corporate transactions over the thirty plus

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Speaker 3: years I've been in this business. At one point I

420
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Speaker 3: acquired the company with Amberg sharers who wrote the Traim

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Speaker 3: Pants novels from the original founder. We eventually sold the

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Speaker 3: business to what was Alloy dot com, which.

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Speaker 9: Was a.

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Speaker 3: Company selling skateboard apparel and trendy clothing through a catalog

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Speaker 3: and website. Is that how Alloy became Alloy became so

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Speaker 3: we became Ali Entertainment.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of a great name.

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Speaker 3: They were in the media and marketing business and we

429
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Speaker 3: were a small.

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Speaker 4: Public company during the odds.

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Speaker 3: Eventually we went private and our investors put Alloy Entertainment

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Speaker 3: on the market. At that point in time, we had

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Speaker 3: seven shows on the air. We were doing tremendously well.

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Speaker 3: We still are doing tremendously well. And Warners was the

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Speaker 3: most logical buyer for the business.

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Speaker 4: Our TV business was there.

437
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Speaker 3: We had three monster shows with them at the time, Gossip.

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Speaker 4: Vampire Diaries and Pretty Little Liars.

439
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Speaker 3: They actually probably had a better sense of what we

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Speaker 3: were worth than our owners did. Yeah, really did from

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Speaker 3: us the people who worked at the company. It was

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Speaker 3: the best outcome because we knew the party as well.

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Speaker 4: We had a great working relationship. You know that we

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Speaker 4: were talking about the lot earlier, just the dream of

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Speaker 4: this being our home.

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Speaker 3: So they Warner Brothers TV acquired the business from the

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00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 3: private equity owners in twenty twelve. We've operated as a

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00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 3: wholly owned subsidiary of the Talviison Group since that. All

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00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 3: of our series we produce through WBTV. Our movie business

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00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: is independent, and that has been a great relationship.

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00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: You know.

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00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: One of Brothers pictures in Newline are very specific businesses,

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00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: and we are a very specific business. Where there are overlaps,

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00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: we absolutely want to be in business, and where there are,

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00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 3: the company has been.

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00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 4: Generous enough to us go elsewhere.

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00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: I mean that seems like the best of all possible worlds.

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00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: Plus again, folks, I cannot say enough about the beautiful wood.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review

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00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music. We love to hear

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00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and sign

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00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: up for our free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't

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00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: forget to in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.