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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, January twentieth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: La He's in New York, and Brighty has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from Brent Lang, Peter de Bruges, and Owen Gleiberman.

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Speaker 1: Like many others at Variety, those three are getting ready

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Speaker 1: for the Sundance Film Festival, which begins on Thursday. This

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Speaker 1: trio gives us the long term view of Sundance and

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Speaker 1: what it has meant to the film industry as the

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Speaker 1: festival goes through a big moment of transition. Variety will

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Speaker 1: be producing three digital dailies out of Sundance starting on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, here are a few

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Speaker 1: headlines just in this morning that you need to know.

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Speaker 1: Netflick has made good on its promise to revise its

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Speaker 1: bid for Warner Brothers Discovery to an all cash offer

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Speaker 1: for eighty three billion. That's a joust against paramount sky

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Speaker 1: Dance's aggressive campaign to convince shareholders and regulators that it

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Speaker 1: should be the owner of Warner Brothers Discovery. More to

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Speaker 1: come on that this week, for sure. Netflix reports Q

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Speaker 1: four earnings later today, the Berlin Film Festival has unveiled

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Speaker 1: its line up for next month. It has a bunch

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Speaker 1: of artsy titles from filmmakers whose names are hard for

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Speaker 1: this yank to pronounce, but it's a robust line up

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Speaker 1: that includes Rose Bush, Pruning and Channing Tatum's latest movie, Josephine.

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Speaker 1: The European film market that coincides with the Berlin Now

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Speaker 1: also should be robust. The festival runs February twelfth through

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Speaker 1: February twenty second. Imagine Entertainment and food company Lambda Lakes

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Speaker 1: have teamed on an initiative to modernize the portrayal of

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Speaker 1: rural America in movies and television. The effort is dubbed

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Speaker 1: the Modern Rural Costive, and they've produced a toolkit for

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Speaker 1: filmmakers and producers with a lot of facts and figures

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Speaker 1: and anecdotal info that is in contrast to the stereotypes

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Speaker 1: around small towns and agricultural communities. All of these stories

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Speaker 1: and so much more can be found on Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: Right now and now it's time for conversations with Variety

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Speaker 1: journalists about news and trends and show business. Brent Lang,

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Speaker 1: Variety's big boss of film and media, and Variety's chief

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Speaker 1: film critics Owen Gliberman, and Peter de Bruges discussed Sundance

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Speaker 1: in this moment of transition for the festival and the

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Speaker 1: indie film business overall. Peter was busy reviewing a movie

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Speaker 1: when we got started talking, so he joins the conversation

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Speaker 1: a little later, but through the magic of editing, we

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Speaker 1: made it work. Brent Lang and Owen Gliberman, thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining me. Obviously, this will be a momentous Sundance

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Speaker 1: Film Festival, so there's a lot to talk about, but

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Speaker 1: let's start with the basic question. What are you both

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Speaker 1: excited about? Are there films or filmmakers that you're really

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Speaker 1: keen to see or get to know. Let's start with Brent.

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Speaker 2: The one nice thing about Sentance is you never really

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Speaker 2: know what's going to be the film that really breaks

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Speaker 2: out in a big way. There's always a really exciting

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Speaker 2: element of surprise. But I would say on paper, there's

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Speaker 2: a film called the Invite by Olivia Wilde, who I

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Speaker 2: really enjoyed Book Smart, and this has Edward Norton and

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Speaker 2: Penelope Cruz, and I think that could be a really

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Speaker 2: exciting movie. It's about a couple that gets invited to

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Speaker 2: participate in orgies with another couple. And then there's another

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Speaker 2: film by Gregor Rocky called I Want Your Sex that

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Speaker 2: sounds really interesting. Olivia Wilde is also in that and

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Speaker 2: Cooper Hoffman, and I think it's going to be a

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Speaker 2: very provocative and then one of the other ones that

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Speaker 2: I'm very interested in is a movie called Hanging by

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Speaker 2: a Wire, which is a documentary about some kids in

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Speaker 2: Pakistan who they take a cable car to school and

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Speaker 2: the wire snaps and there's a very elaborate rescue operation,

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Speaker 2: and I've heard that it's really similar to The Rescue,

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Speaker 2: a documentary that I liked a lot.

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Speaker 1: What about You, Owen Well, I.

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Speaker 3: Want a second what Brent said about how when you

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Speaker 3: go into Sundance you really always get surprised, and that's

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Speaker 3: the thing that I'm looking forward to when I just

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Speaker 3: think back over the years, movies like Fruitvale Station, Bryd

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Speaker 3: Coogler's first film, or In the Bedroom Todd Fields first film.

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Speaker 3: Nobody going into Sundance was like, Oh, we're all anticipating that,

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Speaker 3: and it just hits home to me the way that

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Speaker 3: at Sundance when you see a really fantastic film, you're

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Speaker 3: not just seeing a great movie. You're seeing oftentimes the

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Speaker 3: birth of a filmmaker who will go out into the

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Speaker 3: world and we'll make films for the next thirty years.

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Speaker 3: And the surprise of it is the essence of it.

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Speaker 3: That said, there are always films I'm looking forward to.

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Speaker 3: One of them is The Moment, the first starring role

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Speaker 3: of Charlie XCX, and I'm looking forward to that for

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Speaker 3: a couple of reasons. I think she's a very exciting

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Speaker 3: pop star, and I always like to see stars like

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Speaker 3: that who seem like they have the potential as big

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Speaker 3: screen actors, to see what they can do. But also

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Speaker 3: it is a mockumentary in which Charlie XCX plays a

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Speaker 3: character very much modeled on herself. I like that form.

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Speaker 3: I think it's very resonant, so I'm totally proud to

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Speaker 3: see that. When you're in a big audience as you

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Speaker 3: are at Sundance, there's just a sacramental quality to movies

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Speaker 3: to what they've always been. What it's really about is

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Speaker 3: that mystery and surprise of what they're able to do.

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Speaker 3: As a filmmaker, Peter.

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Speaker 1: Debrus, what are some of the films you're most interested

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Speaker 1: to screen.

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Speaker 4: But sometimes hard to predict. It's not like a can

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Speaker 4: or a Toronto where you can like look at the

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Speaker 4: big name directors and think, you know, I'm excited for that.

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Speaker 4: Although I'm totally excited that Greg Iraqi has a movie

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Speaker 4: called I Want Your Sex. He's also bringing a really

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Speaker 4: spiffed up restoration of Mysterious Skint, which showed at Sundan's

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Speaker 4: the very first year I attended in two thousand and four. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I love the next section. It's even like the misfit

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Speaker 4: toys that don't fit into the competition. Sections that are

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Speaker 4: a little bit avant garde, that are kind of pushing

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Speaker 4: the medium forward, that might be more experimental. That's where

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Speaker 4: in the past movie is like Sound of My Voice

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Speaker 4: or last year East of Wall came out of there.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I've only seen one film in that

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Speaker 4: section so far. Because we put if I go, Will

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Speaker 4: They Miss Me? On our ten directors to watch list,

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Speaker 4: I can absolutely vouch for that movie. I describe it

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Speaker 4: as a Killer of Sheep meets Beasts of the Southern Wild.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's just like this magical, realist slice of

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Speaker 4: la life in a community that's often overlooked in such

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Speaker 4: a special voice.

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Speaker 2: One thing that is unfortunate, and it is definitely something

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Speaker 2: that I participate in myself. But when these films end,

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Speaker 2: there's a rush to kind of get onto a social

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Speaker 2: media platform to share your instant reaction. And I think,

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Speaker 2: particularly with something like Sundance or Can, a lot of

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Speaker 2: these films are more artistic. They're not easily accessible, and

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Speaker 2: they really benefit from some rumination and some meditation about

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Speaker 2: the quality. And this idea that you know something is

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Speaker 2: instantly an Oscar contender or a masterpiece or instantly a

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Speaker 2: disaster is really unfair to the filmmakers.

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Speaker 1: There was a world where we had to think about

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Speaker 1: it and sleep on it and write a column for

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Speaker 1: the next day. And in that same vein, it's no

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Speaker 1: surprise to listeners of Daily Variety that the independent film

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Speaker 1: market was in the throes of transition, dealing with technological disruption,

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Speaker 1: dealing with distribution disruption. Gun Dance has somewhat a victim

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Speaker 1: of its own success in the sense that you know,

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Speaker 1: big sales, whether they were big dollars or just big

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Speaker 1: buzzy titles would come up and be part of bidding wars.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the emphasis on the sale the rights

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Speaker 1: deal has that taken away from the sense of appreciating

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Speaker 1: the quality of film, especially when you're there.

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Speaker 2: I think that in some ways that it's sort of

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Speaker 2: been decided for us because of the business issues that

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Speaker 2: the ND sector faces and the like all night bidding wars,

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Speaker 2: which as a reporter were extremely exciting although exhausting to cover,

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Speaker 2: you know, for things like Manchester by the Sea or

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Speaker 2: Birth of Any Nation or Brooklyn or the Big Sick,

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Speaker 2: those have really gone out the window, I mean with

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Speaker 2: some cause, because it's like kind of a terrible business

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Speaker 2: idea to spend twelve to twenty million dollars like an

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Speaker 2: overnight negotiation, and I think studios and streamers did realize

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Speaker 2: there was some value in sort of slowing the process down.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of an agent driven model where they

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Speaker 2: were trying to jack up excitement and jack up the

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Speaker 2: price of the film, so you don't really see that.

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Speaker 2: In fact, most of the movies from Sundance last year

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Speaker 2: sold after the festival, often long after the festival. But

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Speaker 2: that said, I do think that the types of movies

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Speaker 2: that Sundance has highlighted and its most recent iterations have

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Speaker 2: tended to be very, very small independent film. They haven't

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Speaker 2: been the types of movies like A Little Miss Sunshine

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Speaker 2: that really have a crowd pleasing quality that allow them

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Speaker 2: to enter the mainstream in a big way. I haven't

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Speaker 2: seen that for a few years.

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Speaker 4: I think I do think that's an issue. I think

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Speaker 4: that the sales of overshadowed what Sundance is really about.

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Speaker 4: And if you ask me what Sundance is really about,

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Speaker 4: going back to what Robert Redford intended, what Michelle Satter

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Speaker 4: has been doing through the institute all these many years,

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Speaker 4: they were really about finding a platform for the voices

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Speaker 4: that weren't getting heard, the kind of stories that don't

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Speaker 4: come through the mainstream. And I think that Sundance, while

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Speaker 4: all of the sales activity over the years, the boom

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Speaker 4: that existed in the late nineties and early two thousands

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Speaker 4: for indie films at the box office, you know, that

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Speaker 4: brought a whole lot of attention that lifted Sundance to

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Speaker 4: this kind of leadership position and They've used that position

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Speaker 4: not to worry about programming, to reinforce that not trying

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Speaker 4: to find the commercial movies, but continuing to stay true

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Speaker 4: to the Redford mission all along. And here is it

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Speaker 4: is the last year and Redford is passed. I think

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Speaker 4: he would be proud to see that. It's another lineup

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Speaker 4: that's really about diversity. They're talking to talk about, you know,

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Speaker 4: we want to diversify who our storytellers are, who were

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Speaker 4: empowering to direct and to produce and to star. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is Sundance is doing the job of going through

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Speaker 4: the eighteen thousand submissions they get to find and like,

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Speaker 4: you know, lift up those voices. We get distracted by

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Speaker 4: the thing about the you know, twenty million dollars sale

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Speaker 4: that happens once in a blue moon. I always used

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Speaker 4: to love Sundance and I old culture because there was

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Speaker 4: a decade inside to it. You know, when a movie

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Speaker 4: like Happy Texas would be bought by twelve for twelve

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Speaker 4: million or something like that. But the bottom line was

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Speaker 4: that those all night bidding wars and the incredible price

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Speaker 4: tags not only that they got a lot of headlines,

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Speaker 4: but that they happened because they were about the fact

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Speaker 4: that these movies really could go out into the world

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Speaker 4: and make money. And that's how independent film starting in

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Speaker 4: the late eighties and nineties at Sundance changed movie culture,

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Speaker 4: changed culture in the world period. That's how influential these

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Speaker 4: films were. That's the romance of Sundance and the excitement

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Speaker 4: of it and the importance of it, and those things

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Speaker 4: are all in dangerous. Thing I've been wondering is why

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Speaker 4: is it that the audience for popcorn movies, they're out there,

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Speaker 4: they're going, but the audience for artistic films, for lack

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Speaker 4: of a better world, they want to stay home and say, well, okay,

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Speaker 4: I'll just watch that along with my quality TV. May

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Speaker 4: be that these films are a little harder to get to,

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Speaker 4: but I want to think that there is still an

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Speaker 4: audience that.

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Speaker 3: Will go out to see a small film at a theater.

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Speaker 3: It's not over yet, but that's the side of the business.

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Speaker 3: It's just very challenged right now.

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Speaker 1: To the point Brent about the slowing down of that

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Speaker 1: sales process, there is no greater example of how it

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Speaker 1: is a buyer's market that tells you that the power

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Speaker 1: of the agent and the package or and the sales

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Speaker 1: agent is dwarfed by small handful of companies and distributors

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Speaker 1: that really make an impact. Well, I know there will

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Speaker 1: also be a very kind of an emotional overlay to

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Speaker 1: this Sun Dance for two big reasons. One, as everybody knows,

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Speaker 1: it's the last one in Park City, it's moving on

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Speaker 1: to Boulder, Colorado in twenty twenty seven. And it is

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Speaker 1: the first festival since the passing of Robert Redford, the

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Speaker 1: founder of the Sundance Institute, the godfather of American independent film.

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Speaker 1: What do you anticipate that we're going to hear from

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Speaker 1: people that will be paying tribute to Robert Redford.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the opening night dinnis their big annual fundraiser,

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Speaker 2: is basically being turned into a tribute to Robert Redford,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure that the opening night remarks will really

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Speaker 2: reflect on him and his legacy. You could really make

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Speaker 2: a case that no movie star in the twenties had

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Speaker 2: a more profound impact on the medium than Robert Redford.

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Speaker 2: And not just the film festival, but also the Sundance

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Speaker 2: Institute and what they do in terms of providing support

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Speaker 2: to emerging artists and giving them feedback and allowing them

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Speaker 2: to really grow as filmmakers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with everything that Brent said, and he

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Speaker 3: did launch something that became so big that just took

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Speaker 3: on a life of its own. But I think it's

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Speaker 3: very interesting to consider sort of the symbolic value that

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Speaker 3: Robert Redford and who he was had with Sundance. On

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Speaker 3: the one hand, he was saying, let's make movies that

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Speaker 3: are un Hollywood stories, Let's make independent films. That's what

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Speaker 3: I stand for as an artist. But Redford had so

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Speaker 3: much Hollywood in his DNA. He really did come almost

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Speaker 3: from the old Hollywood. That's when he started back in

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Speaker 3: the late fifties early sixties. The movie that launched really

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Speaker 3: launched him into superstardom, which Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

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Speaker 3: was a Western so he had some of that old

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Speaker 3: Hollywood DNA, and then he became a king of the

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Speaker 3: New Hollywood. So that was two hollywoods. And then I

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Speaker 3: think it's very important to note that he kind of

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Speaker 3: shepherded Sundance as the next hollywoods.

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Speaker 2: And I think he was really interested in sort of

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Speaker 2: demystifying the American experience, like both as an actor and

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Speaker 2: as a director. And if you look at some of

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Speaker 2: his what I think are his greatest films, things like

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Speaker 2: Downhill Racer or The Candidate, or my favorite of the

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Speaker 2: movies he directed, Quiz Show. They really take a look

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Speaker 2: at our political culture, about the ideas of success and

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Speaker 2: kind of the limitations of a kind of crass commercialism

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Speaker 2: that I think this country is very guilty of.

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Speaker 1: And on top of everything else, he actually cared about

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Speaker 1: the earth. He was way ahead of that. Well, let's

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Speaker 1: button up with a couple of favorite memories from Park

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Speaker 1: City over the years.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with Owen Well. I always just go back

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Speaker 3: to my first Sundance festival. When I got there in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five, didn't know what to expect. Saw my

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Speaker 3: first movie there, Party Girl, starring Parker Posey, which I loved,

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Speaker 3: and that told me right away that this festival was

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Speaker 3: going to be about just seeing amazing things. I also

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Speaker 3: saw the documentary Crumb at that festival, which ended up

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Speaker 3: being just about my favorite film of that year. So

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Speaker 3: right away it was about major films, but it was

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Speaker 3: also about just all the filmmakers and actors and people

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Speaker 3: you could meet, the way that you were really just

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Speaker 3: interfacing with great artists and on a very very casual level,

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Speaker 3: what about you, Brent.

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Speaker 2: For me, as some of it is just being in

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Speaker 2: the room when a movie is hit in a big way.

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Speaker 2: I'll never forget being at the premiere of Manchester by

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Speaker 2: the Sea and that film just really kind of like

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Speaker 2: swept over the audience and sort of carried them along.

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Speaker 2: Or call me by your name, you know when Timothy Shallomy,

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Speaker 2: nobody even knew who he was, and you could tell

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Speaker 2: this guy is going to be big, big star. And

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Speaker 2: I think it's also just kind of the fact is

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Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, Park City is a terrible

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Speaker 2: place to have a film festival. It's inaccessible, it's you know,

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Speaker 2: the stormy weather, it's icy, people are constantly slipping, it's

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Speaker 2: completely freezing. And yet that makes it a really wonderful

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Speaker 2: experience because you've had to do so much, You've had

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Speaker 2: to put in so much work before you even get

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Speaker 2: into the theater that you just you want to be

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Speaker 2: transported and you can feel that kind of bond with

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Speaker 2: your fellow audience members. You've actually gone to the top

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Speaker 2: of the mountain because you really love this art for

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Speaker 2: him and you believe that it's still important. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's what I say, sort of feel fondest about

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Speaker 2: Park City and about Sundance.

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Speaker 1: Peter, tell us some of your favorite memories.

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Speaker 4: I have to say that, like, it's been really important

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Speaker 4: to me to attend Sundance in person, to be part

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Speaker 4: of the energy in the room. I'm always perched in

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Speaker 4: the front row of the Echos balcony, and there I

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Speaker 4: can kind of just absorb the love as it kind

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Speaker 4: of emanates. And you can feel when one of those things,

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Speaker 4: a little Miss Sunshine or a Juno, when it like

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Speaker 4: it comes alive twenty feet from stardom. You know that

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Speaker 4: was an opening night movie one year, Whiplash. I mean,

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Speaker 4: those are films that just kind of electrify the room.

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Speaker 4: And when you're there in that front row balcony seat,

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Speaker 4: you feel the applause, you see all the activity down below.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Well, safe travels to Park City. Looking forward to

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Speaker 1: seeing you, and thank you so much for sharing these

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Speaker 1: great memories. As we close out today's episode, here's a

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Speaker 1: few things we're watching for. Don't miss my colleague William

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Speaker 1: Merle's great coverage of Landman season two. It was a

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Speaker 1: great ride for the Billy Bob Thornton Taylor Sheridan drama

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Speaker 1: that is set in the world of big Oil in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Bill's got great recaps and a fun look at co

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Speaker 1: star Sam Elliott's amazing work in season two. You can

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Speaker 1: find it all on Variety dot com. It's a new year,

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Speaker 1: and Variety is back on our annual worldwide trek of

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Speaker 1: film festivals and markets. Starting Friday, will produce three digital

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Speaker 1: dailies out of the Gothenburg Film Festival in Sweden, and

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Speaker 1: starting January twenty ninth, we'll produce the first of four

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Speaker 1: digital dailies out of the International Film Festival Rotterdam in

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Speaker 1: the Netherlands. Before we go Ingrats, Tale le Cobo and

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Speaker 1: Jason Lipschutz, the two longtime veterans at Billboard, have been

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Speaker 1: promoted to code chief content officers. Billboard is one of

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Speaker 1: Variety's sibling news brands, and it is even older than Variety,

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Speaker 1: which is one hundred and twenty years old. Billboard was

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Speaker 1: born in eighteen ninety four, Yes eighteen ninety four. Billboard's

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Speaker 1: previous editorial leader, Hannah Karp, has just join Warner Music

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Speaker 1: as executive vice president and Chief Communications Officer. Congrats and

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Speaker 1: godspeed to Hannah too. Thanks for listening. This episode was

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Speaker 1: written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from

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Speaker 1: Brent Lang, Peter de Bruce, and Owen Gliberman. Stick SNICKT

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Speaker 1: hick pigs. Please leave us a review with the podcast

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Speaker 1: platform of your choice, and please tune in tomorrow for

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Speaker 1: another episode of Daily Variety