1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and today we're talking about a rather 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: broad but important topic, which is the tendency of various 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: people to exotic size, non white beauty. So let me 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: break it down real quick. We came to this idea 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: because I was reading some tabloid magazines. I'm sorry, Okay, 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Hey, sometimes it's fun to read a tabloid. 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: But every time I go home to see Sally, she 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: hands me like this stack of tabloid magazines because she 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: religiously goes every Friday to the grocery store to buy 12 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: her tabloids. She would die if she heard me say this. 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: But anyway, so I'm flipping through and they're like two 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: months old, and one thing that I noticed was how 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: actress Lupia Niango has attracted so much praise and adoration. 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: And I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, that's great, 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: she's a talented actor. Since she's achieving the attention and 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: the praise that she deserves. Well, then I'm reading a 19 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: couple more magazines and then I start looking at the 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: Internet and I'm thinking this attention that she's getting is 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: kind of weird because it didn't it started to not 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: feel genuine. It started to feel like it was coming 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: from a place where people were tripping over themselves to 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: adore her and and heap adoration on her for strange reasons. 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: And then I started to think, are people just obsessed 26 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: with this actress because she's black? Well, and by people, 27 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: are you referring more specifically to white people, I am 28 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: referring more specifically to white people in this instance, white 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: people in entertainment media. But also the blog is Fear, 30 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: I mean, news probe rams anywhere that's talking about lupetea 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: Niango seems to be referring to her as some other worldly, 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: exotic beauty and what does that even mean? Yeah, it's 33 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: that word exotic that comes up a lot, which is 34 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: what we really wanted to dig into, and a lot 35 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: of our conversation in the in the first half of 36 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: this episode is going to focus on Lupeta because it 37 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: is Caroline such a perfect example of how culturally it's 38 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: It's like we're almost trying to consume her and figure 39 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: out like what what her beauty means for us, and uh, 40 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: just for a little bit of background. This might seem 41 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: a little dated, because Lupida's star really shot up during 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: Awards season earlier this year, when she was receiving award 43 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: after award and just looking stunning in general on so 44 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: many red carpets, and she ultimately received the Academy Award 45 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: for Best Supporting Actress for her role as Patsy in 46 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: Twelve Yours a Slave, and it was highly celebrated when 47 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: she looked incredible that night. She gave a very moving 48 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: speech and like you staid Caroline, the blogosphere he so 49 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: much deserved praise on her, but it was almost taken 50 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: to this next level. Particularly, I felt like it really 51 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: started to spiral into this huh, what are we really 52 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: talking about extent when people named her, you know, the 53 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: most beautiful woman in the world, which again like, of course, 54 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: like she's gorgeous. Her star is rising um and she 55 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: also got a contract with Landcombe Cosmetics, and it was 56 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: as if people just couldn't talk enough about her exotic beauty. 57 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: In particular, right, it seemed as if everybody, and I 58 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: mean I say everybody, I mainly do mean white people. 59 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: It seemed that a lot of white people were tripping 60 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: over themselves to say how beautiful she was, to to 61 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: talk about her acting chops, I don't know. It just didn't. 62 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: There was something off about it. There was something strange 63 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: and slightly disingenuous. Not that she doesn't deserve the praise, 64 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: not that she's not beautiful, but all of the compliments 65 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: seemed to focus on how different she was, right the 66 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: exoticism factor. For instance, the Daily Mail proclaimed her exotic 67 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: beauty and acting debut in twelve years of slave has 68 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: left both Hollywood and the fashion world breathless. Over at Forbes, 69 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: you have Niongo is the kind of star publicist dream about. 70 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: She has an exotic background. And then at Hollywood Reporter, 71 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: you have the fashion world appears ready to promote her beauty, 72 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: even if to some it seems exotic. Yeah. Over at 73 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: Salon in April, Aganda, Okayo called for everybody to stop 74 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: this whole exoticization, this whole other ring of this actress. 75 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: And she really rolled her eyes at that Hollywood Reporter story. 76 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: Um because the writer, the Hollywood Reporter writers seemed to 77 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: really be fretting about how in the world Lupete will 78 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: go on in Hollywood, how will she succeed, how will 79 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: she overcome her different nous and they wondered can a 80 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: black actress ever reached Julia roberts stature and the story 81 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: and okay O both name other African American actors and actresses, 82 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: but there they seem very concerned that Lupeta just can't 83 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: reach that upper echelon of acting the way that Julia 84 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: Roberts has well. And it's not so much the question 85 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: of will she post Oscar be able to continue, you know, 86 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: climbing the ranks to a list Hollywood because there has 87 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: been a problem it's called the Oscar curse for a 88 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: number of African American women in particular, who received Academy 89 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: Awards but then don't go on to get a number 90 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: of really great media roles after that. But the issue 91 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: there isn't so much in the color of their skin, 92 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: but rather a lack of meaty roles written and given 93 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: to women of color in Hollywood that aren't roles such 94 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: as housekeeper like someone in The Help, or a slave 95 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: like someone like Patsy in Twelve Years of Slave. Right. Yeah, 96 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: And it is that concern about roles which I think 97 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: that conversation is way more productive and justified than a 98 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: conversation about her skin color. Um. The Hollywood Reporter quoted 99 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: a studio executive talking about how there are so few 100 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: roles out there for women of color. Those roles are 101 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: not are just not being written, he said, And in 102 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: quoting a talent agent, uh, they said that for someone 103 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: who looks like her with a distinctively black African face, 104 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: maybe she's someone who can change the direction for darker 105 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: skin actresses, actresses who are definitely not European looking, but 106 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: it may require some forward looking director to push for her. Well, 107 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: the good news is it was recently announced that Lupida 108 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: is going to be in the newest Star Wars that's 109 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: coming up, so it doesn't seem like she is immediately 110 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: doomed for some kind of post Oscar slump. But there's 111 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: still that problematic issue of exotic sizing this beauty, because 112 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: the funny thing about it is everyone was sort of 113 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: falling over themselves and and praising the fact that the 114 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: Academy had selected this more quote unquote exotic woman, had 115 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: this exotic background with this exotic face, wherein actually her 116 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: background is not so much unlike double negative Meryl streets 117 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: for instance. Right, Yeah, This was pointed out by okay 118 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: Oh again that basically, like here's Meryl Streep, she also 119 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: kind of had a car round path because she did 120 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: not have that traditional Hollywood starlet look, the more delicate features, 121 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: the blonde hair. Um. But yeah, Streep was raised in 122 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: a middle class family, attended Vasser in the nineteen sixties, 123 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: where she fell out of place amongst some of her 124 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: more affluent peers, and during auditions in her twenties she 125 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: was often deemed not the best fit for Hollywood's archetype 126 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: of what a female celebrity should look like. And it 127 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: seems like a similar conversation right now is happening with 128 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: Lapida now. On the other hand, with Nyongo, I think 129 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: there was this initial idea, just because she doesn't look, 130 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: for instance, like Meryl Street, that she must have come 131 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: from some you know, troubled background and really scraped her 132 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: way up and then magically got this role that then 133 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: got her this Academy award, when in fact her background 134 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: is uh quite privileged. Um. She was born in Mexico 135 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: City and raised in Nairobi. She had pretty affluent parents. 136 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: She went to Hampshire College for Undergraduate where she wrote 137 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: and directed a feature documentary on albinism in Kenya called 138 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: In My Jeans Um and she then went on in 139 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve to graduate in the Yale School of Drama, 140 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: where she was regarded as a stellar student. So she 141 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: actually has a pretty traditional, if not um elevated in 142 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: a way film background, where she has been working her 143 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: way up to this point. And the very fact though 144 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: that that's a surprise to a lot of people is 145 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 1: part of the reason why they're having this conversation. That's 146 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: that's part of the problem, this question of like, well, 147 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 1: why would we automatically assume otherwise? Yeah, well, I mean 148 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: I think it fits in with a lot of people's 149 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: assumptions and ignorance about Africa. Frankly, but like, it must 150 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: have just been some lucky break for this unfortunate girl 151 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: to have made her way here into acting and now 152 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: she's won an oscar. It's like a Cinderella story when 153 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: really she was she was never Cinderella. She worked really hard, 154 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: she came from a privileged background and now she has 155 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: earned her success and that's one of the reasons why. 156 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: Writing over at Humington Post, Dr Lisa Tomlinson kind of 157 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: calls out the racist undertones of this obsession with her 158 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: among more of the white public, because it's not so 159 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: much about her acting skill, but rather again the other 160 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: ring of her beauty. Right Yeah, Thomlinson talks about how 161 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, who is it, who is it that's calling 162 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: the Ango unconventional and exotic and other, and she says 163 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: that it is coming from the white supremacist, patriarchal, and 164 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: capitalist lens, that it is mainly I guess white people 165 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: who are saying that she is the other, that she 166 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: is unconventional, and Thomlinson goes on to write that mainstream 167 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: media has systematically exoticized racialized women for white consumption. She 168 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: goes on to talk about Gabberie Citabe who was in 169 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: Precious and basically says, you know, it's not like Hollywood 170 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: let her breakthrough becau has while she had the same 171 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: dark skin that we praise lupetea Nango for, she doesn't 172 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: fit into that standard Hollywood beauty. She's not going to 173 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: wear a size zero or a size to dress, so 174 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: we don't know what to do with her. And you know, 175 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: Thomlinson also makes the point that in a lot of 176 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: these conversations, the blogg is fear whoever, we tend to 177 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: we tend to phrase frame this conversation as, Oh, this 178 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: this individual is really overcoming a lot of self esteem 179 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: issues tied to his or her skin color, when in reality, 180 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: dark skinned women elsewhere in the world, outside of the 181 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: U S, outside of the West are actually barred from 182 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: seizing better opportunities economic job opportunities because of their skin tone. 183 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: I mean the fact that skin whitening cream as is 184 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: as popular as it is in so many countries. There 185 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: are views of what lighter skin tone means in other 186 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: countries that don't just boil down to self esteem or 187 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: the white beauty ideal that we talked about here in 188 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: the West. Well, in speaking of complexion, I mean, that's 189 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: something that she brought up herself. Yoo did in a 190 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: speech that went viral actually um around the time of 191 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: the Academy Awards. She was giving a speech at a 192 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: dinner for black women in Hollywood, and she said, quote, 193 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: my complexion had already become something to overcome. And she 194 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: really talks about the fact that, you know, when she 195 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: was growing up, she didn't think she was beautiful because 196 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: it was something that she never saw in advertisements or 197 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: on film or in television. Again, it gets to that 198 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: visibility issue that we hammer home over and over again 199 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: on the podcast, and how she hoped that her being 200 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: on screen, hopefully more and more, will be an example 201 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: to girls like her growing up who don't think that 202 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: they're beautiful because society, you know, usually upholds white beauty 203 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: standards over non white beauty standards. And what's interesting in 204 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: that speech too, is that she talks a lot about 205 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: the importance of inner beauty and this quote from her 206 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: mom about how she would tell Lupia over and over 207 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: again when she would fread about these kinds of things 208 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: that you can't eat beauty. You can't just consume it, 209 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, you have to sort of live from the 210 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: inside out. And her talking about beauty in that way 211 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: is so much the antithesis of the way that she 212 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: is in many ways being consumed by white culture um. 213 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: Which is why Eugene Lee Yang over at buzz Feed, 214 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: in a conversation about this um said, is her beauty 215 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: worshiped because she's black or because she somehow transcended our 216 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: superficial idea of what black is? And side note too, 217 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: as a white person, I think there's also this um 218 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: aspect of wanting to pat ourselves on the back a 219 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: little bit for elevating her to this position, but at 220 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: the same time, we're really ultimately just co modifying her 221 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: beauty for our own pleasure, which is really uncomfortable to 222 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: hear myself, stay out loud, No, I I would totally 223 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: agree that there seems uh Eugene Yang talks about how 224 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: there's this like almost religious fervor with these observations of 225 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: lupide in Yanga's beauty, and I do think there is 226 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: an element of that where where um, white people are 227 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: trying so hard not to appear racist all the time, 228 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: or they're making such an effort to say like, hey, 229 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing we're like, oh no, but 230 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: I have black friends. It's that kind of thing. So 231 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: when they're going out of their way to say, oh, 232 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: she's so beautiful, it's it's almost like, you know, why, 233 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: you're trying really hard to come off as open, open 234 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: and accepting of someone else's beauty that you didn't grow 235 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: up used to seeing. And a number of African American 236 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: bloggers have also pointed out too in this broader conversation 237 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: of how these this sort of eroticizing of particularly the 238 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: darker skin tones or the lighter skin tones, happens within 239 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: their communities as well. And actually, Damon Young over at 240 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: Ebony was talking about how Lupie and Yango being elevated 241 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: to this uh status as a beauty icon is good 242 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: for black boys because the white beauty standards are certainly 243 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: aren't don't exclusively impact what white people think beauty is 244 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: as well, he writes about how images kids are exposed 245 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: to matter and the black stars have often looked like 246 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: Halle Berry, Beyonce or Rihanna, reinforcing that light skinned black 247 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: women are the norm and the most desirable, right, And 248 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: he admits that as a kid growing up, he you know, 249 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: fell into that as well, that he idolized these lighter 250 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: skinned black women because that's just what he was presented 251 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: with over and over all the time. And he was, 252 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's not just yeah, like you said, 253 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: these media images don't exist in a vacuum. Everyone's being 254 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: exposed to them. And so he was also being exposed 255 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: to images of what quote unquote beauty is is and 256 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: how that was often equated to white women beauty. And 257 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: this is a lot of bloggers and even researchers have 258 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: talked about this, that the word itself beauty is often 259 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: tied in with white women. Oh yeah, there was some 260 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: I forget who it was. Brought up a very good 261 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: point to where if you just google image beauty, you 262 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: usually are served up white female faces. Um and uh. 263 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: Speaking a little more about skin tone, Jamala Lamo over 264 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: at Clutch was talking about how there's also the exotic sizing, 265 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: not just of you know, it's like white people are 266 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: exoticizing Lupida's darker skin tone, whereas there's also within the 267 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: African American community sometimes the exotic sizing of lighter biracial 268 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: skin tones. She talks about the use of regular black 269 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: girl versus the language of the exotic, which is often 270 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: used to denote a woman of color with European or 271 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: perhaps Asian heritage. Yeah. And Amina con Over at the 272 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: Black Girl Dangerous blog in April talked about how language matters, 273 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: and she says that dark skinned women are shunned and 274 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: mistreated even by dark skinned men. They're lighter skin sisters, 275 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: praised and glorified as though the association with whiteness makes 276 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: them somehow better. And I feel like so many times 277 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: the people who use the word exotic to describe a 278 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: woman who is likely of of not the same ethnic 279 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: origins as they are. I think it's some kind of compliment, 280 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: But a lot of times when you hear from women 281 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: who are referred to as exotic over and over again, 282 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: it's not a compliment at all, because it's incredibly objectifying 283 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: and sort of just boiling them down to this this 284 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: other status. And I mean, calling someone exotic says a 285 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: lot more about the person who's saying it than it 286 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: does about the person who's receiving the word. And Kristen 287 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: mentioned the term racial micro aggression and using the word 288 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: exotic is an example of that, and to define it 289 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: for you, uh, it's a turn that was first used 290 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: by a professor of education and psychiatry at Harvard University 291 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, Dr Chester Pierce, but it was 292 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: popularized more recently by Columbia University professor DARYLD W. Sue, 293 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: author of Microaggressions in Everyday Life, Race, gender, and Sexual Orientation. Basically, 294 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: a microaggression is where you maybe you think you're saying 295 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: something to be nice, like calling someone exotic, when really 296 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: it's just you telling that person that you think they're 297 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: the other. And expounding on that a little bit, psychologist 298 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: gal Alsen Sadie talks about how when you call someone 299 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: exotic again, it's usually intended as a compliment, but as 300 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: we all know, intentions don't necessarily make what you do okay, 301 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: because when you really break it down, an exotic beauty 302 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: isn't the same as a true beauty. Therefore, it's ultimately 303 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: a discriminatory sentimentsity rites and as far as dating goes um. 304 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: Going back to that BuzzFeed conversation that we mentioned earlier, 305 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: he Been Negatu was one of the people in the 306 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: conversation and she talks about Lupida, saying that I think 307 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: she's being fetishized for her dark skin and appearance, but 308 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: this doesn't translate into being coated as hot or sexy 309 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: or other terms that denote desirability. I want her next 310 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: role to be a romantic comedy. And I mean, I 311 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: think that's that's an interesting point that just because you 312 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: call someone exotic, that doesn't necessarily mean you're calling them 313 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: beautiful or think that they're cute, or you know, think 314 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: that they are Julia roberts Uh starring with Hugh Grant 315 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: and romantic comedy material, and so in that way, really 316 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: your compliment is almost hollow because they're not being included 317 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: in the general, the more general standard of beauty. Yeah, 318 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: this was something that Asia la Chapelle Friday wrote about 319 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: at the Root Um. She has a Louisiana Creole heritage 320 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: UM and her family identifies as African American, and she 321 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: talks about how any time guys would come up and 322 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: call her exotic, she knew exactly what was behind that 323 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: it was this kind of short lived enthusiasm. And she 324 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: said that ultimately, quote, I feared I would never encounter 325 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: a man who didn't make me feel as if I 326 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: weren't an animal completing his search for a rare pet. 327 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: And when you read too there there was another blogger, 328 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: Jandy Wilson over at Exo Jane, writing around a similar 329 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And I feel like almost pretty much 330 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: any time I have read or heard a woman talking 331 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: first person about this kind of fetishization that happens that 332 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: specifically focused on their ethnic makeup, it is as though 333 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: there non white ethnicity is simply seen as an open 334 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: invitation for cat calling, for comments, for groping, for you know, 335 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: it is that kind of in the way that lash 336 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: Felle Friday puts it, that search for a rare pet. 337 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: And that's why this conversation over at the Hairpin was 338 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: really interesting. Um Gia Tolentino over the Hairpin was talking 339 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: about a national geographic piece talking about what what our 340 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: babies are going to look like in and how we're 341 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: going to exist in this you know, post racial society 342 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: where interracial relationships with the noirm and so with all 343 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: of this melting pot nous and all of this blending, 344 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: our kids are going to be these beautiful, dark skinned, 345 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: light eyed, curly haired, you know supermodels. Yeah, everyone will 346 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: kind of look as the want to pointed out like 347 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,239 Speaker 1: Rashida Jones and policy Mike sort of viralized it for 348 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: the Internet and it went wild on social media and everyone. 349 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: And again it's also a lot of white people saying like, yay, 350 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: I can't wait for the time when our babies are 351 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: gonna look so much more interesting and just like cuter 352 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: than they do today. And Tolentino sums up uh this 353 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: attitude in in a in a statement that really like 354 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: I email Kristen and was like, did you see this? 355 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: She writes, look at how beautiful it is to see 356 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: everything deluded that we used to hate. So well, it 357 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: is great. It is great to celebrate interracial relationships and 358 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: the fact that you can't get arrested anymore for a 359 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: black man marrying a white woman, for instance. There is 360 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: the whole conversation of like, well, wait, is a is 361 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: a quote unquote regular black person or regular white person? Not? Okay, 362 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: do we are we trying to change people? Are we? 363 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: Do we not want to let people be who they are? 364 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: Or you know, well, because it's it also kind of 365 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: trace us back to the fact that, um, as much 366 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: I think as we would like to live in some 367 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: post racial utopia, we don't live in a post radial 368 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: utopia as probably people of color can attest to far 369 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: more than white people, as still the majority can attest to. 370 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: And that was something um talking about, these semiotics of 371 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: race and how that kind of other ring of non 372 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: white people, particularly if you look in advertising, for instance, 373 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: it still happens quite often, right. Yeah. Amina con who 374 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier from the blog black Girl Dangerous, talked 375 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: about this whole semiotics issue, which is basically the study 376 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: of how signs and symbols are used to create meaning 377 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: and so what an image of a certain type of 378 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: person is supposed to communicate to us as a society 379 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: as consumers. She uses the example of a perfume ad 380 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: where a white woman looking very satisfied as reclining on 381 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: a bed while with his back to us, we see 382 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: a black man standing over her and the ad copy, 383 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: which I like, I had to read a couple of 384 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: times because I almost didn't believe it at first, but 385 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: the ad copy was take a walk on the wild side. 386 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: And the implication is that if you use this perfume, 387 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: you will get a thrill, you will be wild, you 388 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: will be the type of woman who sleeps with black men. 389 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: And isn't that cookie? Yeah? I mean, and if you 390 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: even take that further, this this has me thinking about 391 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: how people of color and and often, you know, indigenous 392 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: groups are used far too often in fashion ads as 393 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: just background props for white models wearing sometimes you know, 394 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: in indigenous inspired clothing that has really just been culturally 395 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: appropriated from other groups. And this leads up to this 396 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: really important point that that Cohn made talking about those 397 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: semiotics of race. She says, we must resist these categorizations 398 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: at every turn. We must resist using blackness to signify 399 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: savagery and animalism. We must resist using brownness to signify 400 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: an exotic, mystical east. And why Why Because we must 401 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: also resist using whiteness to signify purity and enlightenment and righteousness. Yeah, 402 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: she talks about how words like pretty and beautiful and 403 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: cute are reserved for white women or white models and 404 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: magazines whose bodies and sexualities aren't seen by society at 405 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: large as wild animal or untamed um. And exotic is 406 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: totally wrapped up in that because how often when's left 407 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: time you heard exotic use for a blonde white woman 408 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: from the Midwest, Right, I mean, certainly in our culture, 409 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: we would never describe a woman like that as exotic, 410 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: But we'll we'll call black women fierce or striking or 411 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: eye catching or exotic, will call black men hulking, threatening, thuggish, 412 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: We'll call white men charming with hearts of gold. But 413 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, those are those are lines that 414 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: are unfair to the people that are being referred to 415 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: that way. But I mean they're unfair coming out of 416 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: the mouths of I don't know, right, I mean, because 417 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: they're ultimately it's ultimately marginalizing, right, exactly, It's boiling people 418 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: down to stereotypes. Yeah, I mean, and in this conversation 419 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: we've really focused on exoticizing people of African descent, but 420 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: really this applies to I mean, this happens so often 421 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: to you hear about with Asian women. It happens with 422 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, pretty much any any non white female in particular, 423 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: although it can also happen with men as well. This 424 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: really cuts across ethnicities. And what's even weirder about this 425 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: conversation is talking about quote unquote exotic beauty or in 426 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: this in this instance from CNN, ethnic beauty as something 427 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,479 Speaker 1: that is a fashion statement. Instead of just saying, well, 428 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: some people look like this and that's how they look, 429 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: and other people look different and that's cool. The CNN 430 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: article from Renington reads like a story from the Onion. 431 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: It is talking about fashion, and it is talking about 432 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: quote unquote ethnic beauty as if it is something that 433 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: is now in and that you should aspire to. And 434 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: aren't you curvy girls lucky to look the way you do? 435 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: And this ties back to our conversation last October about 436 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: cultural appropriations, really in the context of what not to 437 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: wear as a Halloween costume, because the problem, for instance, 438 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: with say, wearing an Native American inspired war bonnet as 439 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: a white person like Farrell recently did on the cover 440 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: of l U K and quickly had to issue an 441 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: apology for is because it ultimately just appropriates and then 442 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: commodifies another groups ceremonial sacred garb for our own white 443 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: capitalistic gains. Because again and again and again throughout this article, 444 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: it is incredible how uh, non white features are simply 445 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: just turned into these selling points. For instance, you have 446 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: this one plastic surgeon they interviewed saying fuller lips are 447 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: definitely associated with ethnic cultures. And I don't think these 448 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: trends are going to fade away too quickly. I mean this, 449 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: this is not empowering. Well, and it's not. It's not. Uh. 450 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: I think they're trying to pitch it as, oh, look 451 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: we are our definition of beauty is expanding. But no, actually, 452 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: I think we're just now co modifying non white beauty 453 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: in this instance. I mean one Marie Claire beauty and 454 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: health director that they talked to described our quote unquote 455 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: obsession with rich brown skin complexions, which have boosted the 456 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: sales of self tanning products. What but has that done 457 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: anything for the day to day lives of people who 458 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: actually walk around with rich brown skin complexions. No, so 459 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: what good is that doing anybody except for pale skinned 460 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: women like you and me, who can get tanner faster 461 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: if we want to. Yeah, it makes it okay. And 462 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: if you happen to be a white person listening to 463 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: this podcast and don't exactly grasp not just the wrongness 464 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: of this kind of exotic sizing of non white beauty, 465 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: but don't even grasp the ridiculous nous of it, because 466 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: it does get ridiculous at a point. Let me just offer, uh, 467 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: this quote from this satirical tumbler called Exotic White Girls. 468 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: So I'm a post they wrote called the Beautiful White 469 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: Dialect and it goes, I love how beautiful and simple 470 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: the exotic white dialect is because it has less words 471 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: and lacks any logical grammar. It just sounds so peaceful, 472 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: calming and real. You can just feel the emotion when 473 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: you listen to them speak. It varies from try to try, 474 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: but throughout the White Motherlands it's basically the same. I 475 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: took a two week service trip to build a McDonald's 476 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: with authentic white food and live with an authentic white family, 477 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: So I know, and did you know they have twenty 478 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: different words for coffee but no words for self aware? 479 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: Like I know. When I read that, Caroline, a little 480 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: lightbulb also went off in my head of Oh, this 481 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: is what it sounds like when we talk like that 482 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: about other people. Yeah, because that language and I mean, 483 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: I've already said this, but I mean that language says 484 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: nothing about the people you're talking about. When you when 485 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: you're saying something, calling someone exotic or what have you, 486 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: it says everything about you and your perception and the 487 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: way that you're using language and the way that you 488 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: think it's okay to use language. And I do think 489 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: that overall, are collective perception of what is beautiful is broadening, 490 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: but I think we still have progress to make in 491 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: terms of how we talk about it and how we 492 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: consume it and our relationship with it and also with 493 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: the people that we're talking about. I just think that 494 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: um patting ourselves on the back for for instance, Lupetea 495 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: and Ngo, an incredible beautiful actress, Yes, receiving an Academy 496 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: award and saying Okay, well progress is here, let's go 497 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: about our day is very shortsighted. So we're definitely interested 498 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: to hear from our listeners on this topic. Are you 499 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: a woman of color who has been called exotic? Has 500 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: someone ever said to you know where you really from 501 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: in conversation? Yeah, let us know all of your your 502 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: thoughts and experiences with us, because I think this is 503 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: a conversation that needs to happen more. I don't think 504 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: that we talk about it enough and we really want 505 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: to hear from you, So please let us know your thoughts. 506 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: Moms Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can 507 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast asked and messages 508 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: on Facebook as well, and we have a couple of 509 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: messages to share with you right now. Well, I've got 510 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: to let her here. From Maggie, in response to episode 511 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: on gay wedding traditions, she writes, I'm in the process 512 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: of planning my gay wedding with my fiance, So, first 513 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: of all, Maggie, congrats, she continues, you asked how gay 514 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: couples feel about straight people refusing to marry until we 515 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: have the same rights. I can only speak for myself. 516 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: I'm not even speaking from my partner because we haven't 517 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: even really discussed it. But it doesn't matter to me 518 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: at all. I want everyone to be married who wants 519 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: to be married. I suppose it just depends on the intentions. 520 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: It's become a joke that men will say that to 521 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: avoid marriage. Whether that really happens, though, I don't know. 522 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: I live in a state where gay marriage is legal 523 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: in Delaware, and I live in an area of that 524 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: state with a high concentration of gay people. I've never 525 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: personally been the victim of discrimination. I'm extremely fortunate. My 526 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: family and friends and even strangers have been nothing but supportive. 527 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: I have twenty nieces and nephews, and all of whom 528 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: are old enough to understand know that I'm gay and 529 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: can't wait for their aunt Amy to finally become their 530 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: aunt Amy. I've been a bridesmaid for I think demestrate weddings, 531 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,479 Speaker 1: and therefore a part of all those plans. And I 532 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: know that our wedding looks almost exactly like their's. The 533 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: only thing we've had to question about is who will 534 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: walk down the aisle first. All the other questions are 535 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: the same ones any couples have. What song will we 536 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: dance to? Where will everyone stay? What time will the 537 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: ceremony be? Where I live? Those are the most important questions. Well, Maggie, 538 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: good luck with your wedding and best wishes. I have 539 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: a letter here from Kate that is also in response 540 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: to our Gay Wedding podcast. She says, I was at 541 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: an HR conference listening to a panel discussing relocation benefits 542 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: for employees. One of the speakers from one of the 543 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: biggest US insurance firms stated, our high value talent is 544 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: expected to buy homes. A sign of maturity and readiness 545 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: for leadership at our company is having the home, the wife, 546 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: and the kids. If you don't do these things, you'll 547 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: be passed over for promotion. I was first shocked and 548 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: HR professional would openly admit to having a policy of 549 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: discrimination against employees with alternative lifestyles and by that I 550 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: mean single people who may not have found the right 551 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: person yet. But also by saying these heteronormative standards are 552 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: a prerequisite for success, this company conveys to their gay 553 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: staff that they will be discriminated against, irrespective of their 554 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: legal ability to participate in these expectations. As we know, statistically, 555 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: gay people are of lower income than straight people. Perhaps 556 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: this is not only because they are denied marital benefits 557 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: which help individuals to accumulate wealth, but also because of 558 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: workplace discrimination owing to their marital status. Quite the vicious circle. 559 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: Quite indeed, Kate, thank you for writing in, and thanks 560 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: to everybody who's written into us. Mom Stuff at how 561 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is where you can send us 562 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: your letters. You can also find links to all of 563 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: our social media, all of our podcasts, including all the 564 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: source is for our podcast episodes, as well blog posts 565 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 1: and videos over at the One Stuff Sminty Shop Stuff 566 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com For more on this 567 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 568 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: dot com