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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 1: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 1: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Hello, everybody.

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Speaker 1: Almost immediately after we wrapped our show, some breaking news

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Speaker 1: happened that we just absolutely have to cover. So let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 1: From the New York Times. Quote intelligence suggests pro Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: group sabotage pipelines. US officials say, oh my, okay, so

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Speaker 1: let's keep reading. New intelligence reviewed by US officials suggests

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Speaker 1: a pro Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the

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Speaker 1: nord Stream pipeline last year, a step towards determining responsibility

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Speaker 1: for this act of sabotage. They are important to add. Quote.

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Speaker 1: US officials say they had no evidence President Zelenski of

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Speaker 1: Ukraine or as top lieutenants were involved in the operation,

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Speaker 1: or that the perpetrators were acting on the direction of

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Speaker 1: any Ukrainian government official. The brazen attack on the natural

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Speaker 1: gas pipelines, which link Russia to Western Europe fueled speculation

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Speaker 1: about who was to blame from Moscow to Kiev. Now,

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Speaker 1: after there was no evidence that Russia did it, now

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Speaker 1: US officials are leaking to the New York Times that

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Speaker 1: actually it was a quote pro Ukrainian group. So who

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Speaker 1: exactly are these people? Well, it's kind of interesting. According

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Speaker 1: to the Times, they say that the review of intel

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Speaker 1: suggests that they were opponents of Vladimir Putin of Russia. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but they do not specify the members of the group

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Speaker 1: or who directed or paid for the operation. US officials

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Speaker 1: claim that they had no advanced knowledge of this incident.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, let's take a step back for everybody. So obviously,

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Speaker 1: the pipelines were blown up last year international waters just

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Speaker 1: twelve miles away from NATO, ally from the International Zone,

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Speaker 1: and it caused a major incident. Immediately, Western countries were

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Speaker 1: quick to blame Russia. Now, Chrystal wasn't able to join

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Speaker 1: me because this is such a breaking story here, but

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Speaker 1: here's what she had to say. Quote, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: read her comments, you guys can get her input. Quote.

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Speaker 1: It beggars belief that a sophisticated operation using experienced divers

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Speaker 1: of thousands of pounds of military explosives was a non

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Speaker 1: state actor with zero US involvement. It's amazing they will

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Speaker 1: now openly admit that Russia never made any sense as

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Speaker 1: a culprit, and when they all but blamed that country

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Speaker 1: and suggested that you were a fool if you thought otherwise. Quote. Finally,

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Speaker 1: if it actually was Ukraine and we didn't know what

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Speaker 1: the hell are we doing with those people, that's also

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Speaker 1: my immediate take here as well. So here's what I

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Speaker 1: put out. Quote. Two options, Either we helped Ukraine blow

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Speaker 1: up the Nord Stream pipeline, or we didn't. We found

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Speaker 1: out later, and we continued to provide tens of billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars to an ally, which finds Ally put in

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Speaker 1: quote here, which finds it preferable to risk great power

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Speaker 1: conflict to draw us in. I'm not sure which is worse.

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Speaker 1: And it's really interesting, right, every time Ukraine blows up

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Speaker 1: the Crimean Bridge, assassinates Dugan's daughter on Russian territory, or

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Speaker 1: blows up the Nord Stream pipeline. The New York Times

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Speaker 1: and other pro intel a friendly media comes out later

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Speaker 1: and says, hey, just so you know, yeah, they definitely

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Speaker 1: did it and it was definitely bad, and they're kind

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Speaker 1: of upset with them, but Zelenski had no ideas, Like,

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Speaker 1: are we really supposed to believe that Zelenski had no

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Speaker 1: idea that people inside of his government blew up the

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Speaker 1: Nordstream pipeline and that they were able to do it

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Speaker 1: in a directed operation which obviously required sophisticated military equipment, financing,

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Speaker 1: and logistics to pull it off. Same with the Crimean bridge,

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Speaker 1: and same with the assassination of Dugan's daughter in Moscow.

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Speaker 1: If you believe that, I honestly just think you are

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Speaker 1: a complete fool. And you know, the major takeaway of

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Speaker 1: this is just that it was outrageous from the beginning

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Speaker 1: to smear anybody who said that either the US wasn't

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Speaker 1: involved or that it wasn't Russia. I will note that

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Speaker 1: on our show we took a tremendous amount of caution

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning, and we're very always important to

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Speaker 1: say we're like, we don't know who the pipeline it could,

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Speaker 1: you know, laid out the case in several different things.

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Speaker 1: Will remember the infamous tweet from the Polish MP who

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Speaker 1: said thank you USA whenever the pipeline was eventually exploded.

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Speaker 1: And here's the worst part. It's almost certain, almost certain,

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Speaker 1: we will not learn anything more about this. Also, it's

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Speaker 1: very possible that the only reason the US is even

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Speaker 1: leaking this limited amount of information right now is because

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Speaker 1: Ukraine could be on the verge of conducting another similar attack.

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Speaker 1: And also, as Crystal noted, it does not seem like

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Speaker 1: it's a surprise that this happens to drop just weeks

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Speaker 1: after Seymour Hirsch published that article in which he claimed

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Speaker 1: to have a source that said that it was directly

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Speaker 1: the United States that was involved in bloe owing up

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Speaker 1: the nord Stream pipeline. That seems very much on the

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Speaker 1: table now, given Seymour Hors's reporting, given all of the

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Speaker 1: questions that remain around this incident, and you know, really,

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Speaker 1: all I have to come back to is you can

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Speaker 1: believe that what happened to Ukraine was wrong, but you,

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Speaker 1: I think would be a fool to believe that we

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Speaker 1: should a trust them to just do whatever is in

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Speaker 1: our best interest and that we should just back them

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Speaker 1: with a blank check. And two that the idea that

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Speaker 1: their state apparatus was not involved in this in some

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Speaker 1: way and that Zelenski didn't at least have some knowledge

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Speaker 1: is just crazy. Remember they immediately blamed Russia for those

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Speaker 1: two missiles that landed in Poland and killed two people.

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Speaker 1: They tried to get America to have a no fly

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Speaker 1: zone and come in only until hours later it turns

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Speaker 1: out that they were Ukrainian anti aircraft missiles. The whole time,

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Speaker 1: their interest is to get us involved in this war.

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Speaker 1: Their interest is to escalate this to the great power

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Speaker 1: conflict level because Russia is such an existential threat to them,

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Speaker 1: regardless of how well they've done on the battlefield in

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Speaker 1: the last year. It's just extraordinary, and you know you

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Speaker 1: can get you can bet, you can absolutely bet this

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Speaker 1: is going to land with crickets on the cable television

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Speaker 1: and amongst the Neapho Brigade and all the other pro

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Speaker 1: Ukraine forces who are just going to write this off.

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Speaker 1: Is what you do whenever you defend yourself. Here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're right, maybe this is something that you do,

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Speaker 1: be sure as hell, don't do it with American money,

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Speaker 1: with American resources and possibly even a US directed operation.

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Speaker 1: We're going to continue to stay on this story, guys.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Counterpoints will have a hell of a lot

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Speaker 1: of covers, but thought we owed it to you to

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Speaker 1: have an immediate reaction. I'll see you guys later. Magan

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Speaker 1: Markle been in the news recently, I guess to the

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Speaker 1: misfortune of us all. Apparently her and Prince Harry wanted

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Speaker 1: to sue the South Park creators for the We Want

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Speaker 1: Privacy Tour episode that made fun of them. Not the

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Speaker 1: only comedian though, that have taken notice. Chris Rock in

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Speaker 1: his latest special going after Megan Markel as well. So

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Speaker 1: let's gohea and put this up on the screen. I

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Speaker 1: wish you could play the clip for you, but you

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Speaker 1: could take that up with Netflix and they're insane copyright standards.

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Speaker 1: So here's what he had to say, and again, it's

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Speaker 1: not as funny whenever you read from somebody he says, quote,

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Speaker 1: everybody's trying to be a victim, Like, who is this girl?

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Speaker 1: Megan Markle seemed like a nice lady just complaining. I

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Speaker 1: was like, didn't she hit the light skinned lottery? She

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Speaker 1: hit the e fing light skinned lottery? And is still

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Speaker 1: going off complaining, acting all dumb, like she didn't know

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Speaker 1: nothing going on, Oprah, Like I didn't know, I had

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Speaker 1: no idea how racist they were. It's a royal family.

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Speaker 1: You didn't google these mother efforts? What the f is

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Speaker 1: she talking about? She didn't know. It's a royal family.

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Speaker 1: They were the original racists. They invented colonialism. They're the

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Speaker 1: ogs of racism, the Sugar Sugarhill gang of racism. That's

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Speaker 1: like marrying into the Budweiser family and saying they drink

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Speaker 1: a lot. So continuous there a little bit. What I

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Speaker 1: think is funny about this is not only just with Chris,

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Speaker 1: but for a while Megan Markle was untouchable. I know this.

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Speaker 1: I did my monologue famously defending Piers Morgan, who I

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Speaker 1: still stand by my brother Peer's brother in arms in

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Speaker 1: that fight against Megan Markle's narcissism. But for a while

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Speaker 1: here in the US press it was completely verbot and

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Speaker 1: to say anything about how this is one of the

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Speaker 1: most obvious narcissists in the history of the world. Who

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Speaker 1: you know, she wants to be president. She's calling up

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Speaker 1: senators advocating for legislation. It's like, who the hell or

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Speaker 1: you why should we care about anything that you say.

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Speaker 1: One of the most obvious attention seekers ever actually a

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Speaker 1: very modern American tradition. It seems American divorcees are always

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Speaker 1: a problem whenever they get involved with the royal family.

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Speaker 1: The point, though, is that I think that the tide

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Speaker 1: is turning. So Charlemagne the God actually backed up Chris.

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Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen Monday's edition

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Speaker 1: of The Breakfast Club where he says, whenever you went

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Speaker 1: after Megan Markle, and he backed up and said, quote

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Speaker 1: everything that he said was accurate before playing the clip.

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Speaker 1: After some people said that they were mad about the

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Speaker 1: Megan Markle thing where Chris Rock went after So I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Cristal. I think that between South Park Chris

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Speaker 1: Rock and now you've got South Rock, south Park Chris

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Speaker 1: Rock and Charlomagne the God, all these people speaking out,

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Speaker 1: I think we are now able to discuss the fact

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Speaker 1: that Megan Markle is not only likely a liar, maybe

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Speaker 1: not necessarily about this racism thing, but just in general,

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Speaker 1: but such an obvious attention culture. Two together have become,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're just completely insufferable. I feel worse for

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Speaker 1: Harry because I think he's obviously been taken advantage of,

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Speaker 1: and he had a tough child. I feel bad. I

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Speaker 1: mean he lost his mom y, right, Like, I feel

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Speaker 1: bad for him about that. Nevertheless, come on, like you're

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Speaker 1: a member of the royal family, you got a pretty

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Speaker 1: good life, like multimillion. Yeah. I actually I watched the

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Speaker 1: South Park episode. I watched segment because you know, I

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Speaker 1: like to do my research, and it was hilarious. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: attest to it was called the Worldwide Privacy Tour, which

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Speaker 1: pretty much sums up the whole thing. And then they

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Speaker 1: end up moving to South Park across across from Kyle

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Speaker 1: Anyway and his book. In the South Park episode, instead

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Speaker 1: of what is it called spare the name of it,

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Speaker 1: it's called Way, And there's a whole brand management company

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Speaker 1: that's like trying to pitch these kids on like how

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Speaker 1: to lean into it, how to create a brand for themselves.

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Speaker 1: And it becomes revealed that Megan has been using this

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Speaker 1: brand management company and her brand is sorority Girl, actress

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Speaker 1: influencer Victim. So yeah, it's too perfect. And the punchline

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Speaker 1: with the brand management thing is that everybody who goes

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Speaker 1: in there for their brand, it's like whatever you are,

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Speaker 1: and at the end it's always victim. So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to take a hopeful silver lining analysis of the whole

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Speaker 1: Harry and Meghan situation, which is, I really think this

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Speaker 1: could bring the nation together. As you point out, the

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Speaker 1: emotion around this couple, I think is now widely shared

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Speaker 1: across the political spectrum, across racial demographics and other typical

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Speaker 1: dividing lines in American society. So I really think it

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Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing for us to all come together

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Speaker 1: around in contempt and orison of their publicity. So I

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Speaker 1: certainly hope. So something I do love about the UK

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Speaker 1: is that it's only in this country where we bought

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Speaker 1: her bullshit. In the UK, in the tabloids, they were like,

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Speaker 1: she's a full of shit, attention narcissist. They got it

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Speaker 1: from the rigin. I love it. Yeah, So Peers, you know,

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Speaker 1: he spoke through the masses. I still love him even

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Speaker 1: though he went to go work for Rubert Murdock, and

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Speaker 1: he was right right from the very beginning on this woman. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad the tide is turning. We'll see guys later.

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Speaker 1: So John Stewart has just launched a new season of

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Speaker 1: his show The Problem with John Stewart. Already a bunch

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Speaker 1: of the clips are getting a lot of attention, and

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Speaker 1: I'm actually excited for some of the interviews he has

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Speaker 1: coming up. He says he's going to talk to Larry Summers.

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Speaker 1: That will be spicy. I'm sure he's also going to

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Speaker 1: talk to David Petraeus about the military industrial complex, and

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Speaker 1: he teases that they have some pretty heated disagreements about

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Speaker 1: the size and nature of said military industrial complex. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to that. But in his initial sort of

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Speaker 1: teaser for the season, some comments he made about the

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Speaker 1: Wuhan lab and the whole lab leak hypothesis got a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention. You might recall, I'm pretty sure we

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Speaker 1: played it here. We definitely played it when we were

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Speaker 1: on with Joe Rosen. We did. We did end up

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Speaker 1: covering it because we were on Rogan the very same

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Speaker 1: day that it d That's right. So he did a

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Speaker 1: whole bit that was hilarious with Colbert about the lab

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Speaker 1: leak and just making fun of the fact that, like,

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Speaker 1: it's so obvious that this is the most likely explanation

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Speaker 1: versus what was sold to the American people at Slowet Market.

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Speaker 1: It's very controversial at the time, but it was also

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Speaker 1: very hilarious. He reacts here in this clip I'm about

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Speaker 1: to show you to the public reaction and freak ount

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Speaker 1: over this bit that he did take a lesson. It

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Speaker 1: was a pretty good bit that expressed kind of how

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Speaker 1: I felt. And the two things that came out of

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Speaker 1: it were I'm racist against Asian people and how dare

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Speaker 1: I align myselves with the alt rights I was doing

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Speaker 1: a bit about, and it was similar to a bit

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Speaker 1: I've done on religion. It used to do a bit

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Speaker 1: about religion, saying religion's giving comfort to a world torn

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Speaker 1: apart by religion. So the idea was, you know, about

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Speaker 1: the vaccines and other things that science had truly helped

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Speaker 1: heal a world from a pandemic, probably called by science.

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Speaker 1: And then I proceeded to go on a kind of

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Speaker 1: a long tangent about why that, Why I thought that?

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Speaker 1: And the backlash was swift, immediate, and quite loud, which

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Speaker 1: is just a sign of something we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: for a while. How even contemplating or giving any sort

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Speaker 1: of credence to lab Leak was coded as being a

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Speaker 1: right wing conspiracist. And it's the way, yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: the way that, you know, and also by the way,

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Speaker 1: you were racist against Asian people, even though, as I've

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Speaker 1: also said many times, like the wet market theory, if

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Speaker 1: anything was going to be racist, that sounded a lot

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Speaker 1: more racist to me. But whatever. But one of the

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Speaker 1: most extraordinary moments when he was actually delivering that, you know,

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Speaker 1: that whole like doing the bit on Colbert, was how

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Speaker 1: visibly uncomfortable Cole Bear was, who basically like interrupted him

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Speaker 1: and cut him off. And I remember Rogan was like,

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Speaker 1: as a comedian, deeply offended and triggered by the fact

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Speaker 1: that he would like jump in and screw up the

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Speaker 1: bit in the way that he tried to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and actually it's true because Colbert made his bones being

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Speaker 1: a comedian, so for him to violate that code for

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Speaker 1: John Stewart also who's doing it on his show. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, oh's his entire career to John Stewart

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Speaker 1: is also you know, one of those major I would say,

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Speaker 1: faux pause, but you know, as what did Joe say,

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Speaker 1: He was like he saw his yacht sailing away. Yeah, look,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing I think was silly from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Glenn has been talking about this as well, about how

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Speaker 1: John eventually had to not walk it back per se,

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Speaker 1: but clearly was affected by the criticism. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's the problem, which is, look, A, he was a

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Speaker 1: comedian making a funny joke, and B the reason it

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Speaker 1: was funny is we all knew it was true. And

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Speaker 1: the fact is is that they couldn't did not want

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Speaker 1: to grapple with the facts. It didn't even want to

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Speaker 1: allow it into pop culture. So the whole episode is

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Speaker 1: one of the most embarrassing things happened to the mainstream media.

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Speaker 1: It seems like this just keeps happening too quickly, Like

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Speaker 1: we had twenty years or so so in between Russiagate

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Speaker 1: and Iraq WMD, but now it's like every two years

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Speaker 1: we have a new one where they just cover themselves

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Speaker 1: in glory, I guess, and never admit the failures, just

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Speaker 1: keep pushing forward, never acknowledge that the train wreck that

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Speaker 1: just happened behind them. Yeah, I mean, listen, John Stewart

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Speaker 1: is fine. He has his show, he has his fame,

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Speaker 1: he has this. He's all good, right, But I think

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Speaker 1: the critique is more about Listen, if you're up and coming,

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Speaker 1: you may not make that joke because you're worried about

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Speaker 1: what it's going to mean for you in terms of

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Speaker 1: your career prospects. And I also think outside of comedy,

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Speaker 1: it's just a more meta narrative and commentary on the

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Speaker 1: way that things get coded as Republican or Democrat or

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Speaker 1: right or left in at times these really bizarrely arbitrary ways,

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Speaker 1: Like there's nothing inherent about a lovely hypothesis that would

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Speaker 1: make it somehow right wing, but because Trump said it,

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Speaker 1: then instantly it becomes part of this weird, stupid partisan

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Speaker 1: culture war that kept the media from actually investigating what

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Speaker 1: really happened here for years. So it's not like it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have any impact anyway. Always, you know, always insightful,

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Speaker 1: always interesting to hear from Jensuar, And I am excited

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Speaker 1: about the upcoting season because he does such a great

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Speaker 1: job in those interviews one on one. I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: just relentless. Maybe we should have him back on the show.

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Speaker 1: I would love to have him back on his front

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Speaker 1: or go for producers, let's do it, let's get it done,

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Speaker 1: all right, We'll see you guys later. Hello, everybody. Breaking news.

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Speaker 1: One of the most disgusting attacks by senior government officials

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Speaker 1: against independent media I have ever seen just occurred today

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Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. Matt Tayebe and Michael Schellenberger appeared before

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Speaker 1: Congress to talk about the Twitter files. This could have

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Speaker 1: been a substitute discussion if they had wanted it to be. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it was character assassination and it was attack on independent

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Speaker 1: media itself. So let's start. Stacy Plaskett, who is the

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Speaker 1: delegate to Congress from the US Virgin Islands, the ranking

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Speaker 1: member on the committee, starts off the hearing by attacking

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Speaker 1: the credentials of Matt Tayebe of Michael Schellenberger, calling them

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Speaker 1: quote so called journalists. Let's take a listen. This isn't

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Speaker 1: just a matter of what data was given to the

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Speaker 1: so called journalists before. So now there are many legitimate

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Speaker 1: questions about where Musk got the financing to buy Twitter.

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Speaker 1: First of all, let me just say this, Stacy Plaskett

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Speaker 1: is not even a real member of Congress. So who

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Speaker 1: is a lady who literally can't even vote in the

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Speaker 1: chamber to call anybody a so called member. See, we

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Speaker 1: can all do this if we want to, or we

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Speaker 1: could focus on the substance that's the problem. They would

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Speaker 1: rather go after Tyibee and Schllenberger's credentials than talk about

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Speaker 1: the actual censorious content of the Twitter files. Matt, to

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Speaker 1: his credit, he handled it with total grace and he

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Speaker 1: laid out his credentials. Take a listen to his response,

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Speaker 1: ranking member Plasket. I'm not a still called journalist. I've

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Speaker 1: won the National Magazine Award, the if Stone Award for

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Speaker 1: Independent Journalism, and I've written ten books, including four New

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Speaker 1: York Times New York Times bestseller. You know. Here's the thing, though,

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Speaker 1: and look, I'm glad he obviously is an accomplished person.

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Speaker 1: But credentials don't matter anybody anybody who exposes information not

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Speaker 1: previously known, that person has committed an act of journalism.

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Speaker 1: That person is protected by the First Amendment. Who the

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Speaker 1: fuck are these members of Congress to think that they

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Speaker 1: can decide who a journalist is and who a journalist

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Speaker 1: is not. Now It's not just Stacey Plaskett. Many other

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Speaker 1: Democrats on the committee humiliated themselves today. One of them

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Speaker 1: is Debbie Wasserman Schaltz. Let's talk about Debbie Wassermanshall's I

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Speaker 1: think we all remember her from the DNC days. Here

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Speaker 1: she is attacking Matt Tayebi for the idea that he

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Speaker 1: might have made money by doing his job. Take a listen.

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Speaker 1: I imagine your sub stack readership, which is a subscription

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Speaker 1: increased significantly because of the work that you did for

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk. Now, I'm not asking you to put a

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Speaker 1: dollar figure on it, but it's quite obvious that you've

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Speaker 1: profited from the Twitter files. You hit the jackpot on

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Speaker 1: that Vegas slot machine to which you referred. That's true,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. I've also reinvested. No, no, no, no. Is

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Speaker 1: it true that you have profited since you were receiving

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Speaker 1: you were the recipient of the Twitter files. You've made money?

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Speaker 1: Yes or no, it's probably honestly. No, you have made

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Speaker 1: money that you did not have before. Correct, But I've

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Speaker 1: also spent money that I didn't have. Okay, where I

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Speaker 1: just hired a whole group of people to patently obvious

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Speaker 1: answer reclaiming my time. Attention is a powerful drug, eyeballs, money, prominence, attention.

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Speaker 1: All of it points to problems with accuracy and credibility,

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Speaker 1: and the larger point, which is social media companies are

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Speaker 1: not biased against conservatives, and if anything, they ignored their

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Speaker 1: own policies by allowing Trump and other magnet extremists to

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Speaker 1: post incessantly endangering public safety and even our democracy. Hypocrisy

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Speaker 1: is the hangover of an addiction to attention. Oh, first

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Speaker 1: of all, Matt says, it's a wash because, as all

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Speaker 1: of us know, it's not for free. We actually have

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Speaker 1: to invest a lot of what we quote unquote make

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Speaker 1: into our business because we don't have big corporate advertisers

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Speaker 1: to back up our work. But second, when the New

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Speaker 1: York Times and the Washington Post break a story, you

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Speaker 1: know what they do. They advertise because we know that

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Speaker 1: people you want to support work whenever they find it

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Speaker 1: to be good. So what is she attacking here? The

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Speaker 1: idea that Matt Tayibi and Michael Schellenberger, an of these

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Speaker 1: people did their job and so we're rewarded for it.

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Speaker 1: So what what's wrong with that? This is an attack

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Speaker 1: on independent media itself? Are they calling the TV executives

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Speaker 1: who make billions of dollars from the big pharma companies

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Speaker 1: in all their commercials? Oh, that's not so called journalism.

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Speaker 1: That's fine when they profit whenever they spin up a

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Speaker 1: fake story like Russia Gate and sell corporate ad dollars

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Speaker 1: on their higher ratings. That's totally legitimate, right, But it's

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Speaker 1: not legitimate when he exposes the censorship industrial complex that

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Speaker 1: existed over at Twitter, the actions of the FBI and

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Speaker 1: the DHS. That's what the problem is. And then final

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Speaker 1: this clip. This you can tell I'm hopped up because

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Speaker 1: this is everything. Watch this Democratic member of Congress refer

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Speaker 1: to substack quote as some sort of a website, which

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Speaker 1: she finds confusing. Yet you yourself post in on your

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Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of like a web page and

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Speaker 1: don't quite understand what substack is. But that I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of boomers watch the show. Some of them

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Speaker 1: get upset when I attack. But look, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: say it. That's exactly why we need some new blood

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Speaker 1: in Congress because that's what we're up against. People. This

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Speaker 1: is everything they are attacking. Substack is some not legitimate

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Speaker 1: forum of journalism so called journalists Matt Tayebi and Michael Schellenberger.

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Speaker 1: If you make money to support yourself outside of the

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Speaker 1: corporate industrial complex, that suspect. But when you take Pfizer's

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Speaker 1: money to support your sixty minutes program, that's totally fine.

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Speaker 1: And this has got to be one of the most repulsive,

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Speaker 1: disgusting things I have seen from members of Congress. You

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Speaker 1: are a government official, you say nothing about who is

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Speaker 1: a journalist, who is not? Who the fuck are you?

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Speaker 1: I can't I just that's all I can continue to

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Speaker 1: think whenever I see the way that they behave today

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Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. We could have had a real discussion here.

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Speaker 1: We could have had a real questioning, not just with Tybee,

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Speaker 1: with Schellenberger, about the actual content of the Twitter files.

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Speaker 1: That's what Jim Jordan and some of the other people

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Speaker 1: who were in before Congress tried to do. But instead

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Speaker 1: they chose to attack their character and look, in some

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Speaker 1: ways that's a good thing. That means that they're winning.

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Speaker 1: That means that they don't actually have anything to say

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00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: about the content. The tacit acknowledge is that they have

428
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: to attack the credentials because they have no defense whatsoever

429
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: of the content. But you know, don't mistake this for

430
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: what it is. This is not you know, take breaking

431
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: points or whatever out of it. This is an attack

432
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: on all of us so called viewers, so called journalists,

433
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: so called people who question anything that these people say.

434
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: So anyway, go support Matt if you can you know what,

435
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: Let's actually make him some money. We'll drop a link

436
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: to his substack in the description just a repulsive, repulsive

437
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,239
Speaker 1: display on Capitol Hill today. Hey, their money is James Lay.

438
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in to another segment

439
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: of fifty one to forty nine on Breaking Points and

440
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: today I'm here to talk to you about what I'm

441
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: calling a cooperative arms race that is currently unfolding between governments,

442
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: big tech, and the ruling elites. To colonize your mind.

443
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: You glance at the program running in the background on

444
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: your computer screen and notice a now familiar site that

445
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: appears whenever you're overloaded with pleasure. Your data bringway back

446
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: to the decreasing in the temporal of your brain. You

447
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: mentally move the cursor to the left and scroll through

448
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: your brain data over the past few hours. You can

449
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: see your stress levels rising as the deadline to finish

450
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: your memo approached, causing a peak in your beta brain

451
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: wave activity. Right before and alert popped up telling you

452
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: to take a brain break. Your mind starts to wander

453
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: to the new colleague on your team, whom you know

454
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be daydreaming about, given the policy against intra

455
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: office romance, but you can't help fantasizing just a little.

456
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: But then you start to worry that your boss will

457
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: notice your amorous feelings when she checks your brain activity

458
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: and shift your attention back to the present. When you

459
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: arrive at work the next day, a somber cloud has

460
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: fallen over the office, along with emails, text messages, and

461
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: GPS location data. The government has subpoenaed employees brainwave data

462
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: from the past year. They have compelling evidence that one

463
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: of your coworkers has committed massive wire fraud. Now they're

464
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: looking for his co conspirators. You discover they are looking

465
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: for synchronized brain activity between your coworker and the people

466
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: he has been working with. You know you're innocent of

467
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: any crime. You've been secretly working with him on a

468
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: new startup venture, shaking you remove your earbunds. What a

469
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: pitch a wearable device that monitors all of your brain

470
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: activity with a new type of technology for which they

471
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: are attempting to manufacture public consent in the name of

472
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: human wellness. How predictable with supposed applications like being able

473
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: to help keep you healthy, make you more productive, steer

474
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: you clear of certain vices and even fight crime. No

475
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: other possible motivations. Right, companies already investing in tech to

476
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: scan employees' brains. The general pitch for this device class

477
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: is familiar, if not convenient. It's a tool not only

478
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: for enhancing productivity, but for ensuring employee wellness. They might

479
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: technically be monitoring employees, but only for their sake. We're

480
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: going to monitor you for productivity, yes, but that's not

481
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: a real focus. What we're really after is ensuring your wellness,

482
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: your safety. We're monitoring you for your sake. Consider the

483
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: fact that right now, many workplaces have individuals who have

484
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: to be awake and alert at all times in order

485
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: to do their jobs well. Sometimes that doesn't happen. Take

486
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: this example, where this trucker decided to take a twenty

487
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: hour shot for a fifteen hundred mile ride. It's well

488
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: exceeding the amount of time that any trucker long haul

489
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: trucker is supposed to drive. His employer didn't discover his

490
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: choices until the fatal accident that was disastrous for the

491
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: company and cost many lives. Note the order of priorities

492
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 1: first and foremost disastrous for the company, and then secondarily

493
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: many lives lost. Quote, in five thousand companies across the world,

494
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: employees are already having their brainwave activity monitored to test

495
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: for their fatigue levels. Fairhni says she is the presenter

496
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: in the clip we just watched from the world that can.

497
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: She cites mining operations, including one of the biggest mining

498
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: companies in the world, that have their employees wear hard

499
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: hat and baseball cap like devices that detect fatigue. No mention,

500
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: of course, of alleviating the conditions that lead to over

501
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: fatigued workers in the first place. I don't know. You

502
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: tell me. Is this technology meant to improve the human experience,

503
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: improve human wellness, improve the human condition? Or is this

504
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: technology meant to enable human control visa vis a centralized

505
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: authority open the pod bay door as well. I'm sorry, Dave,

506
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: I'm afraid I can't do that. This mission is too

507
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. You see,

508
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: I don't think the goal is to preserve humanity. Rather,

509
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: I think the goal fairly transparent goal is to turn

510
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: humans into programmable robots with no freedom to engage in

511
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: independent thought, their only function being defined as whatever is

512
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,239
Speaker 1: necessary to serve their corporate masters. That is perhaps the

513
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: only real use case of this application and the only

514
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: way that this type of technology is actually financially viable. Quote,

515
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: we find the once autonomous cowboys of the highway, strapped

516
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: to monitors and monitoring vests, scanned with intelligent cameras and

517
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: tracked while they drive, forced to ride along with silent

518
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: spies instead of hitchhiking kids like me. Despite what I

519
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: think is pretty eloquent pros there that is not some

520
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: movie script. That is reality, real life applications of surveillance

521
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: technology already in use to spy on people. In twenty seventeen,

522
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: the US Department of Transportation decided to do something about

523
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: terrible accidents and long haul trucking. The problem, as that

524
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: DOT saw it, was that drivers were evading the hours

525
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: of service rules that limited how long they could drive,

526
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: So the federal solution was to mandate a digital ride

527
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: along to stop the evasion. Starting in twenty seventeen, the

528
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: DOT required that all trucks be equipped with electronic logging

529
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: devices elds. This is the exact scenario that Professor Parahani

530
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: invokes in her presentation at Davos to illustrate the use

531
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: case of such brain monitoring technology. But according to reporting

532
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: from the American Prospect, after the ELD rollout, trucking safety

533
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: stayed the same or declined. There were even more crashes

534
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: in some part of the industry. As right, the roads

535
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: aren't made any safer, but corporate bosses are surely more

536
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: powerful and more wealthy. Every moment spent idling is a

537
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: blinking red data point at headquarters. Now drivers get pinged

538
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: by their superiors when a truck stop break goes longer

539
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: than expected. When a driver is tired or encounters bad weather,

540
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: they no longer feel free to make a decision to

541
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: sleep or take a break, because the tracking technology signals

542
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: to headquarters that the truck is idle. Elds also create

543
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: a new structure of ongoing data collection, which positions employers

544
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: to be able to more precisely set change and withhold wages.

545
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: They use the data to push for competition between drivers,

546
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: shame drivers who are less productive, and discipline them. There

547
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: is a reason, not a coincidence, why corporations call it

548
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: human resources. You and I are humans from the point

549
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: of view of corporations, nothing more than resources that are

550
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: to be managed, deployed, and transformed into a commodity, meaning

551
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: to them, humans are to be treated only as objects

552
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: of trade for means of generating economic value. The moment

553
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: you seize to serve that function, there is no other

554
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: outcome for you other than being discarded. When do you

555
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: look at it at technology transformation, it usually takes place

556
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: in the terms of a S curve. And we are

557
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: just now where we move into the exponential phase. And

558
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: I agree artificial intelligence, but not only artificially intelligence, but

559
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: also some meta worls near space technologies. And I could

560
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: go on and on, synthetic biology. Our life in ten

561
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: years from now will be completely different, very much affected.

562
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: And who master or SOI technology cheese in some way

563
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: will be the master of the world. Masters of this

564
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: technology will be masters of the world. Klaus Schwab, the

565
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: WF kind of oftentimes shrouded in this kind of conspiratorial mystery,

566
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: but if you listen, they are actually pretty transparent in

567
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: terms of telegraphing what their plan is. In this case, technology,

568
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: while pitched as a tool to empower humans, is in

569
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: reality an instrument of control to rule the masses and

570
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: increase corporate power. A silicon value lawmaker wants to protect

571
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: workers from employer spying. Assembly Member ash Kolera proposed a

572
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: bill Monday that he said would ensure workers gain some

573
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: protection from off duty employer surveillance and retaliation. The Workplace

574
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: Technology Accountability Act, or AB sixteen fifty one, would create

575
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: a set of privacy standards for employer workplace monitoring to rules.

576
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: All right, So not lost on me that I'm sort

577
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: of advocating for government intervention as a potential solution to

578
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: protect work or privacy, since I also in this piece

579
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: heavily alluded to the fact that governmental agencies and other

580
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: centralized corporate authorities are prone to abuse such a technology.

581
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: But what I would say to that is, I'm not

582
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: opposed to governments creating rules. It's just who are they

583
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: creating the rules? On? Behalf of that is what we

584
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: have to pay attention to. Does the rule centralized power

585
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: or decentralized power? Is the rule meant to benefit multinational

586
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: corporations or regular citizens? That is how I think we

587
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: should evaluate legislation. That bill, by the way, did not

588
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: even receive a vote. It was withdrawn before even a hearing.

589
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: Big business predictably got involved to kill it and smear

590
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: it as a job killer and that is the point.

591
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: The current economic paradigm necessarily incentivizes or requires businesses to grow,

592
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: to look for new frontiers, new geographies to conquer, to monetize.

593
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: It just so happens that we've just about colonized every

594
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: corner of the globe. So the mind, which was once

595
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: sacred to the individual, is now the final untapped trove

596
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: of value, and it is under siege to be conquered

597
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: and exploited by the ruling elites. So let's be mindful

598
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: of that as we scrutinize AI power, surveillance technology and

599
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: the ways in which various groups, whether it be big

600
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: business or consortium of public and private interests, look for

601
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: ways to manufacture public consent to accept this technology. That

602
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: is all for me this time. I hope you found

603
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: today's segment about surveillance and brain monitoring technology to be

604
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: informative and helpful. What are your thoughts? Is boss weare

605
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: a concern for you? Is privacy concern for you? I

606
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: would encourage you to share your thoughts in the comments

607
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: section below. Also make a ton of other videos like

608
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: this breaking down many different topics on my YouTube channel

609
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: fifty one to forty nine with James Lee, I would

610
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: encourage you to check it out and subscribe. The link

611
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: will be in the description below. Of course, keep on

612
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: tuning into Breaking Points and thank you so much for

613
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: your time today. Cheles tair Pak, Welcome back to Breaking Points.

614
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: I saw some news about TikTok and social media screen

615
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: time limits that be built into the apps. I thought

616
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: you'd be the perfect person to talk about this with

617
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: the Breaking Points audience. So, yeah, what's happening. What's the

618
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: big headline? You offered a bit of a correction, let's

619
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: take it in there. Yeah, so there's a few headlines

620
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: happening about TikTok right now, but what we're focusing on

621
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: was a big headline last week is that TikTok is

622
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: implementing limits on teens to just being on the app

623
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: for sixty minutes per day. That was the headline and

624
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: that's what a lot of people on Twitter were going with,

625
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, big shock value. But there is missing context

626
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: within that headline. So what it left out is once

627
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: this limit is hit, the user is able to put

628
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: in a passcode that they set for themselves, unless they're

629
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: under the age of thirteen, the parents sets the passcode

630
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: for them, so they can go right through that limit,

631
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: similar to the way that we have Apple screen time

632
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: screen time limits, and also that they can turn off

633
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 1: the feature completely. So that's where it gets a little weird.

634
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: But what is good about it is that it is

635
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: going to be a default setting for those under eighteen

636
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: years old, So I want to be very precise. So

637
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: the significance is when you download TikTok for the first

638
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: time and you're under eighteen, there is just going to

639
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: be by default the setting that there's going to be

640
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: a sixty minute limit. And the key thing that people

641
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: should understand then is that this limit is optional in

642
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: the sense that whenever you hit the sixty you just

643
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: put in the pass code. When you said the point

644
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: about how thirteen year olds will require a parent to

645
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: input the number, how many thirteen year olds are even

646
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: like using TikTok, I don't use the app, so I'm

647
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: just like curious about that, Like under thirteen's yeah. So

648
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: it's similar in the way that Instagram, if a user

649
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: is under thirteen, it is supposed to kind of be

650
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: a parent run account if the user is under thirteen

651
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: and they created the account themselves, and the birthday obviously

652
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: shows that they're under thirteen. Even though it's easy to

653
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: bypass that by in putting a that shows you're over thirteen,

654
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: they cannot post on the app, and they also have

655
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: a bit of more content generation in terms of what

656
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: is pushed them as well as they don't get ads

657
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: and things like that. So it ends up not being

658
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: attractive for people under thirteen and they end up not

659
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: really utilizing it unless they're utilizing like their parents' platform

660
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: for example, but it's not frequently used. This, I would say,

661
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: is mostly a big story between those like thirteen to

662
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: eighteen and what do you think about social media screen

663
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: time limits in general? So screen time limits are kind

664
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: of proven to be very ineffective within China right now.

665
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: For it's actually users that are under fourteen years old.

666
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: Within TikTok, they have a hard screen time limit of

667
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: forty minutes per day and it's no efans or butts,

668
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: like there is no passcode. They actually get kicked off

669
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: after forty minutes per day. This is inching towards that.

670
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: But again we know as just like adults using screen

671
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: time limits, it's something more to make you. It's more

672
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: for awareness than it is for like clearcut enforcement. And

673
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: what TikTok is also pushing with this as like weekly

674
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: emails to teens about their screen time and all these

675
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: different things that again it's very similar to what Apple

676
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: has within the system, and I think it's pretty ineffective

677
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: though it is again good for awareness. But what I

678
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: really like about this is that it is becoming the

679
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: default setting because right now, users like ninety five percent

680
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: of users never change their default settings on apps. So

681
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: when you have kids come in and the settings for

682
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: social media platforms are default for privacy and safety and

683
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: their well being, that can make them more conscious of

684
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: these things and their consumption. So that move about it,

685
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: I do think is positive. But again the fact that

686
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: it's just a screen time limit, I don't think it's

687
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: going to be effective in the long run. TikTok said

688
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: that they did beta testing on this and within the

689
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: first month it made use of screen time limits within

690
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: the app go up two hundred and thirty four percent.

691
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: But I'm more interested in how many of those users

692
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: actually within five minutes of getting that screen time limit

693
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: actually exited the app. I assume it would be a

694
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: very very small person. Yeah, so why is TikTok doing this?

695
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: Assuming good faith and bad faith. There is two different

696
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: answers of the question, because on the one hand, their

697
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: whole business is keeping you on the app so that

698
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: you see more ads, you scroll more, et cetera, et cetera,

699
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: et cetera. Are they doing this because they're concerned that

700
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of just discourse in the country and

701
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of even like legal and political talk

702
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: about like prestrictions in the way that China has them.

703
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 1: How how should we think about their motivations here? For sure,

704
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: I would say there is a ton of pressure on

705
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: TikTok right now, and especially just how advanced again the

706
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: algorithm is, and the design of the platform, having a

707
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: endless scroll, bottomless feed on like ever before on other platforms,

708
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: is known to be extremely addictive, and the time spent

709
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: on this platform because of how addictive it is, is

710
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: way more than any other platform right now. So it

711
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: sucks users in As adults, we have all experienced that

712
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: on TikTok if you've ever been on the platform, and

713
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: so we know that it was probably just as bad,

714
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: if not worse for kids. So there is a ton

715
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: of pressure on them with that. Also, there is just

716
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: a ton of legislation talk around youth well being in

717
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: social media right now over the past two years. Joe

718
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: Biden has mentioned it in the State of the State

719
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: of the Union, addressed two years in a row now.

720
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: And also there's a bunch of different things on the table.

721
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: So you know, California last year passed the Age Appropriate

722
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: Design Code. There are other states right now having that

723
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: in play. There's KOSA, there is a different bill that

724
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: is trying to ban kids sixteen and under on social media.

725
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: And there are a bunch of things at play right

726
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: now because in the US there hasn't been a bill

727
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: protecting kids online passed since nineteen ninety eight, and obviously

728
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: the Internet is completely different than nineteen ninety eight. Social

729
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: media wasn't even a thing back then. So there is

730
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure right now against just social media

731
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: companies in general. And I think TikTok, first of all,

732
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: the pressure amongst them as well as just trying to

733
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: be a leader in that space, probably wanted to make

734
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: this move. But I will say Instagram has had parental

735
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: controls for years now. We're going to launch youth mode

736
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: for kids years ago, but they ended up pausing that

737
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: because there were a lot of just discrmpancies and scares

738
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: around that. But yeah, so TikTok is trying to just

739
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: be a player in the space of youth well being

740
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: for sure. You know something I'm curious about when you

741
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: use the word addiction. I'm really interested in the like

742
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: clinical use of the word addiction and just how we

743
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: actually think about it, because, for example, back when I

744
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: was in high school, like I think you could say

745
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 1: that me and a lot of people in my generation

746
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: of cohort were addicted to Facebook. Now we're just like

747
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: not on Facebook. I tried to use Facebook for an

748
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: event recently and I literally couldn't figure out where the

749
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: event section on the mobile apples because I'm so unused

750
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: to using it anymore. So like I was addicted, but

751
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: I wasn't addicted. Like there's a world war caid work.

752
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound like a libertarian here, but

753
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: this does seem to be like something like that, Like

754
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: how do you think about that? I think it's a mix, uh,

755
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: the type of content you're pushed, the features that what

756
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: is enabled on the platform, and all these little cultural

757
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: things that create these subconscious pools to always be opening

758
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: these apps, whether it's notifications, whether it's public facing number metrics,

759
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: all these different little things are these nuances that make

760
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: people more appeal to keep checking the numbers, keep checking

761
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: the content, keep checking the notifications. And this has just

762
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: become more prevalent over the years. I mean, yeah, I

763
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: was on Facebook heavily ten years ago, but just the

764
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: different features and everything weren't as compelling as the feature

765
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: designs are on TikTok today. They have really optimized time

766
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: spent on the platform and really hitting our psyche when

767
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: it comes to that. Yeah, it's kind of funny. I'm

768
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: comparing this to Facebook in the you know, late two thousands.

769
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: But like, obviously, if Facebook would have could have designed

770
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: what we now have of TikTok, they'd be in a

771
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: much better place than they'd be enjoying that. So it's

772
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: not necessarily a defense. Yeah, like, can you get Twitter

773
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: dow Yeah? Surprisingly yes, but slightly Yeah. Well, I mean

774
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: this is this is the this is why tech talks

775
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: so unique, just like putting aside the geopolitics and the

776
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: China and the band debate, Just like short form video

777
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 1: is just like the apex of mobile based computing entertainment.

778
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: It's a lot more engaging than text or sharing things

779
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: among friends. It's like, instead of making social media about people,

780
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, which is Facebook and Instagram or at rest

781
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 1: Instagram at the start, it's about things outward, beyond yourself.

782
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: So I think the last thing that people are thinking

783
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: a lot about I would love to hear your thought

784
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: on is just like the debate around social media TikTok,

785
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: Instagram and depression, which relates to all this because if

786
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: we're thinking of social media as something that can cause depression,

787
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: that could cause like self image with teen girls to

788
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: be in a disastrous place. Obviously they're gonna be calls

789
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: for screen time limits, bands, etc. Like what's your big

790
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: take on this issue? Yeah, it's a loaded question. I

791
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 1: feel like this topic can be like a two hour conversation,

792
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: so or try to keep it short. Okay, So first

793
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: of all, we'll talk about my experience. So when I

794
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: was in middle school and early high school, I was

795
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: heavily on Tumblr, and Tumblr was known to be like

796
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: the first platform that really romanticized mental illness. I didn't

797
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: know what suicide was before then, I didn't really know

798
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: what mental health issues were before then. This platform really

799
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: exposed it to me. Because it's a mix of like Twitter,

800
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 1: Energy and Pinterest, as well as like anonymous anonymous question platforms.

801
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: Tumblr was kind of like the Holy Girl of all

802
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: of that, though it didn't have an algorithm. It was

803
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: all based on who you followed. But I was exposed

804
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: to content of people cutting themselves, all these different things,

805
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: and when I was twelve years old, it warped my

806
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: mind almost to think that an appropriate reaction to any

807
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: feeling of negativity or sadness was to contemplate hurting myself.

808
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: It was this weird mind warp right right. And when

809
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: I think about TikTok today, Wall Street Journal did amazing

810
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: coverage of this, I think about three years ago now

811
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: where they made a couple thousand bots on the platform

812
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: and they gave these bots different interest and one of

813
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: the bots they gave interests of sadness and depression, And

814
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: within forty minutes of this bot being on the app,

815
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: they were watching the hashtags that had anything to do

816
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: with like sadness and depression, any of those any of

817
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: that type of content, they would the bot would watch

818
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: those videos for longer. It got a little mixed up

819
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: of if the bot one relationship content or all these

820
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: different things. But again within forty minutes. Around ninety percent

821
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: of the content pushed this bot had to do with

822
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: sadness and depression. It makes me really think about Tumblr

823
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: and my experience there, But it was more self curated

824
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: TikTok when it gets a sense of like your state

825
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: of mind, your mood, everything, and is continuously pushing this

826
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: content to you. The other ten percent of the content

827
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: that was pushed to the bot was supposed to be

828
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: content that kind of served testing their other interest, but

829
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: a lot of that content ended up being advertisements. And

830
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: as an adult, I've seen this. I saw it with

831
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 1: the Andrew Tate phenomenon. When I was interested in that

832
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: in terms of like curiosity around the whole phenomenon of it,

833
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 1: I was getting pushed like every other video on TikTok

834
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: was Andrew tait. I remember when the Queen died, for example,

835
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, rest in peace, But I was never interested

836
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: in that type of content or just like conversation around

837
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: the royal family. I was getting pushed so many videos

838
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: about her that day. I watched one in full out

839
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: of maybe fifteen of them. In the next five videos

840
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: were about the Queen. So when I think about this,

841
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: when you're exploring your identity and exploring different sides of life,

842
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: exploring different emotions in your earlier state of mind and

843
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: just your earlier years. An advanced algorithm like TikTok can

844
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: just push you into these rabbit holes like crazy, and

845
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: that is really worrisome on TikTok right now. I've been

846
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: tweeting a lot about this and it kind of sounds trivial,

847
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: but it's actually pretty crazy. Is this trend of plastic

848
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: surgery is exacerbating like crazy TikTok pushes like so like

849
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: the trend cycle has gotten so much shorter because of

850
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: the platform and so many different areas of life. But

851
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: for example, someone who recently blew up the platform. Every year,

852
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: there's a few people who are known to be like

853
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: the Holy Grail creators of the platform kind of has

854
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: a really positive sentiment towards plastic surgery. And now all

855
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: the biggest lifestyle influencers on the app have been getting

856
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: plastic surgery in the past month. It's actually crazy. And

857
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the conversations about this, because you know,

858
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: a lot of the conversations about girls and mental health

859
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: have to do with comparison and editing their pictures. All

860
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: this different stuff. People are worried. We have even adults

861
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: who have made the conscious decision themselves to get these

862
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: types of things. They're worried that teen girls are also

863
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: consuming this content because as soon as you're thirteen, you're

864
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: seeing the same exact content as everyone else on that app.

865
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: You're able to see all of this, And there's this

866
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: weird conversation about transparency versus yeah, the safety of young

867
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: users because they are able to be exposed to all

868
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: of this. So it's kind of like a rant on

869
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: the TikTok side of it, but it's these rabbit holes

870
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: as are pretty crazy. Yeah, I mean, the real takeaway

871
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: there is that algorithms, especially in the TikTok short form

872
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: video context, are just so powerful and we can't just

873
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: understate what they can do, and not in like a

874
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: science fiction y unhelpful way, but just like, don't just

875
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: think this is This is why it's exhausting when someone

876
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: just refers to TikTok as like you know, people dancing

877
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: and stuff like the steaks, and of what this means

878
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: is so much bigger than that. So I think the

879
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: last question I'll ask you is I want you to

880
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: think about like the teen girl aspect of this. Why

881
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: do you think this is affecting teen girls more of

882
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: and boys, Because as you now, there's been a lot

883
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 1: of discourse now about how like young men in America

884
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: are struggling in a much of other contexts, but this

885
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: seems to be a place where we're specifically talking about

886
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: like young women. Seems to one of the only indicators, hey,

887
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: outside of school, like work, et cetera, that we're saying, actually,

888
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: young women are doing much worse here being on men are.

889
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: Do you have a theory or like a reaction to

890
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: why that's happening. I feel like the conversation around young

891
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: young men and boys a lot of it has to

892
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: do with kind of systematic things. I feel like social

893
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: media obviously plays a part in it, but I do

894
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: feel like there's a broader cultural conversation. I think a

895
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 1: lot of the things happening with teen girls are very

896
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: social media specific, and you know, in magazines everything beauty,

897
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 1: beauty standards, whatever, comparison has always been pushed. But again,

898
00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: these algorithms exacerbate that relationship like crazy. And it's also

899
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: known that girls are more like they are kind of

900
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: the ones who post on social media more when it

901
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: comes to like Instagram and TikTok, Twitter and like YouTube

902
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: are kind of a pretty even mix, but on things

903
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: like Instagram and TikTok, it is mostly girls who are

904
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: posting and kind of running those platforms in terms of

905
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: content a lot of the time, and a lot of

906
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: that does have to do with, you know, lifestyle type

907
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: content and beauty standards and all these different things. There's

908
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: kind of jokes all the time of like today's thirteen

909
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: year olds look the same as like today's twenty five

910
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: year olds, and like all these different things of like

911
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: pushing them to girl up a lot faster and get

912
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: into these different consumer culture things a lot faster. So

913
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 1: I do think the girl conversation is very much social

914
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: media specific and the guys is kind of a mix

915
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: of maybe some more systematic things as well. I think

916
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: that's an actual place to leave at Jewels. Thank you

917
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: for joining us on breaking points. You want to give

918
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: a shout out to where people should find your work

919
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: if they're want to delve in deeper. Yes, I'm just

920
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: at Jewels Turpack on all platforms, So see you guys there.

921
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: Thank you, marsh Wessume Hi. I'm Maximilian Alvarez. I'm the

922
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: editor in chief of the Real News Network and host

923
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: of the podcast Working People and This is the Art

924
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: of Class War. On breaking points, a sixteen year old

925
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: was crushed to death on the job by a multi

926
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: ton tractor. A fifteen year old died after falling fifty

927
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 1: feet on his first day working for a roofer. Horrific

928
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: revelations continue to come out about the common exploitation of

929
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 1: child labor in meat packing and food processing plants, industrial

930
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: and office cleaning, and even auto manufacturing, including in at

931
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: least four Alabama parts suppliers to Hyundai and Kia. These

932
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: are not stories from the early nineteen hundreds. This is

933
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: happening here now, all around us. While we Americans like

934
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: to believe that child labor is a thing of the past,

935
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: an antiquated detail of a dark history that is safely

936
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: in our rear view mirror, the sad reality is that

937
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: even today, in the year of our Lord twenty twenty three,

938
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: the exploitation of children and their labor continues to be

939
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: a dismal feature throughout the production and supply chains behind

940
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: many of our favorite brands and companies, including Lucky Charms, Cheetos, Walmart, Target,

941
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: Whole foods, fruit of the loom, Ben and Jerry's I

942
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: mean there are kids farming the produce that we buy

943
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: in the supermarket, kids making the parts that end up

944
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: in our cars, kids cleaning industrial bone saws, office buildings

945
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: and houses. Kids on construction sites and in the backs

946
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: of restaurants. And it is getting worse. As Lauren Gurley

947
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: recently reported at The Washington Post, according to data from

948
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 1: the Department of Labor, child labor violations in the United

949
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: States have nearly quadrupled since twenty fifteen. And if that

950
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: wasn't bad enough, Rather than be justifiably horrified by this

951
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: situation and take serious steps to address the scourge of

952
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: child labor, Republican lawmakers in states like Arkansas, Iowa, and

953
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: Ohio are pushing to roll back labor laws and to

954
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 1: make it easier for businesses to hire miners, have them

955
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: do more dangerous jobs, and even extend their working hours.

956
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 1: As doctor James a Merchant, Professor Emeritis of Public Health

957
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: and Medicine and founding Dean Emeritus in the College of

958
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: Public Health at the University of Iowa recently wrote in

959
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: the Des Moines Register quote last November, the US Department

960
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: of Labor filed an injunction in US District Court in

961
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: Nebraska against Packers Sanitation Services for illegally employing children in

962
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: meat packing plants. It serves Judge John M. Garred swiftly

963
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 1: granted the injunction, requiring packers to stop employing oppressive child labor.

964
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: The Department of Labor has now found that packers had

965
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: employed at least fifty children in night shifts in four Minnesota, Nebraska,

966
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: and Arkansas meat packing plants. The children, ranging in age

967
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: from thirteen to seventeen, were not fluent in English, and

968
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: they cleaned kill floor, bone cutting saws, grinding machines, and

969
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: electric knives with corrosive cleaning fluids. The Department of Labor

970
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 1: reported that some of the children had suffered chemical burns

971
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: and other injuries. Now in Iowa Senate File one sixty

972
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: seven in House File one thirty four are moving forward

973
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 1: in the General Assembly. The bills, as introduced BOOST seek

974
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: to weaken existing child labor governed by Child Labor laws

975
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: governed by the Fair Labor Standards Act by proposing multiple

976
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: changes in Iowa co Chapter ninety two. The bills would

977
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: change Iowa law to allow children to work in several

978
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: hazardous jobs. They would allow children as young as fourteen

979
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: to work in freezers and meat coolers, work prohibited by

980
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,439
Speaker 1: federal law, and they do not clearly state in what

981
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: other making meat packing plant areas work would be permitted.

982
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: They would allow fifteen year olds to load and unload

983
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: non power driven equipment weighing up to thirty pounds and

984
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: up to fifty pounds, with a waiver from the Labor Commissioner,

985
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: work now prohibited by federal law. Provisions for youth under

986
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: eighteen could allow youth to be employed as motor vehicle drivers,

987
00:53:54,680 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 1: clearly hazardous work, also inconsistent with federal regulation. Would also

988
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 1: allow youth under eighteen to sell alcoholic beverages currently prohibited

989
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: by Iowa law, if approved in writing by a parent

990
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: or guardian end quote. All right, so, what the hell

991
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: are we doing here? How the hell is this even

992
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: a discussion right now? And what do these attempts to

993
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: roll back child labor laws tell us about the economic, political,

994
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: and frankly moral state of our society today? And what

995
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: can we do to fight back to talk about all

996
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: of this and more. I'm honored to be joined today

997
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: by Charlie Wishman. Who currently serves as the President of

998
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 1: the Iowa Federation of Labor afl CIO. Charlie was appointed

999
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: unanimously unanimously to the role in May of twenty twenty

1000
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: by the IFL Executive Council and was elected in August

1001
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: of that same year at the sixty fourth annual Iowa

1002
00:54:55,520 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: Federation of Labor AFL CIO convention and has ser in

1003
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: that role ever since. Charlie became Secretary Treasurer of the

1004
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: Iowa Federation of Labor AFLCIO in January of twenty twelve

1005
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: and was re elected to that role many times after

1006
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: initially serving as Communications director for the Iowa Federation of

1007
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: Labor AFL CIO. Charlie is a member of AFT Local

1008
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: seven sixteen and has previously been a member of the

1009
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, as well as

1010
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. Charlie,

1011
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today on Breaking Points.

1012
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Hey, thank you very much for

1013
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: having us. Wish we were meeting under other circumstances, but

1014
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 1: Breaking Points is exactly the kind of appropriate title for

1015
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: where we are right now in Iowa. Yeah, man, I

1016
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: mean I think that's well put, because, like, we got

1017
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: a lot to dig in here in a short amount

1018
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 1: of time to do it, and I know how busy

1019
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: you are, so I really really appreciate you taking time

1020
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 1: to chat with me. And let's just start by making

1021
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: sure that folks watching and listening have just all the

1022
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: basic info that they need about these bills in Iowa specifically, right,

1023
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: So what would these bills do if signed into law?

1024
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: And like who the hell is actually pushing for these

1025
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: rollbacks of child labor laws? And like what is there

1026
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,959
Speaker 1: justification for this? Sure, so a lot to unpack there,

1027
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: So I think it's important to start with. Yeah, so

1028
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: who is pushing this sort of legislation. So there's kind

1029
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 1: of the people who are out front doing it, which

1030
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: is the restaurant Association and the hospitality associations and things

1031
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: like that. You have the home builders and some folks

1032
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 1: who are out front. But it's really interesting, I think,

1033
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: just really briefly, I uncovered in the last Iowa Workforce

1034
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: Development notes that the actually our Governor's office had helped

1035
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: draft this legislation as well as the Department of Workforce Development.

1036
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: So it's not just we can't find enough people to

1037
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: work at McDonald's or Burger King or wherever. There's something

1038
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: much much larger going on here. And I just think

1039
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: that you see that reflected in the legislation because I

1040
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: can go over what it currently does. There's been slight

1041
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: amendments to it. But you know, this is just some

1042
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: of the low lights I think, highlights, lowlights, whatever you

1043
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: want to call them, of this legislation. You know, it

1044
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: would allow youth as young as fourteen to work six

1045
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: hour nightly shifts during the school year and expands working

1046
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: hours to extend to nine PM. And the problem is

1047
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: those are both beyond federal regulations as they're currently written

1048
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: in for Labor Standards Act and DOL Rules and Regulations.

1049
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: But in addition, it also allows employers to recruit teams

1050
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: for a work based learning program for jobs and formerly

1051
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: off limits hazardous but now they would be open to

1052
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: fourteen to seventeen year olds under waivers provided by Iowa

1053
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: Workforce Development or the Department of Education. In our state,

1054
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: It would allow sixteen and seventeen year olds to perform

1055
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: light assembly work in plants or that manufacture or story

1056
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: even explosives would not performed in that shipping area by machines.

1057
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: Even if you're not working with explosives, if they're in

1058
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,919
Speaker 1: the building, that's pretty darn darned dangerous, as you could

1059
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: see in East Palestine, Ohio or even here recently in Iowa,

1060
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: we had an entire plant explode and we still don't

1061
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: even know all the chemicals that were in that plant

1062
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: at the time. It allows sixteen and seventeen year olds

1063
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: to work in meatpacking plants and shipping in assembly areas.

1064
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: Ask anybody who's ever worked in a meat packing house,

1065
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: there is no place for anyone under eighteen anywhere inside

1066
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: of a meatpacking plant. It allows sixteen and seventeen year olds.

1067
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: They struck the word coal from mining, but we've got

1068
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: other kinds of mines here. You know, the coal mines

1069
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: have been decommissioned pack probably decades and decades ago, but

1070
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: we still have gypsum mining. You know, your drywall comes

1071
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: from somewhere. We've got other kinds of minds here. And

1072
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: you know, one of the more troubling proposals does go

1073
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: back to the restaurant industry, and for example, it would

1074
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: allow sixteen and seventeen year olds to serve alcohol, which

1075
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: is I know a lot of people at first blush

1076
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: are like, hey, that's no big deal, But I don't

1077
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: know would you want your as I I asked the

1078
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: Majority leader of the IO House when we marched on

1079
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: his office, do you want your daughter to be bartending

1080
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: at sixteen? For god knows who who's been drinking for

1081
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: how long, let alone if they're a pedophile or not.

1082
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: He said, well, you know, my daughter works at an

1083
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: ice cream shop, and it's like, well, there's a big

1084
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: difference between ice cream and alcohol. So I mean, that's

1085
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: just some of the stuff that's out there. But if

1086
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: I think that, what I'm talking about here is, if

1087
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: you go and look at everything that's in this bill,

1088
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: it's not just the restaurant industry that wants the changes

1089
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: that are being made. And even with the example right

1090
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: of like, oh my daughter works at an ice cream shop,

1091
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean like, by and large, I mean not even

1092
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: by and large, we already know that the people in

1093
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: power who are making these decisions, who are pushing for

1094
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: these bills, it's not going to be their goddamn kids

1095
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: who are in those those minds. It's not gonna be

1096
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: their goddamn kids who are cleaning you know, bone saws

1097
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: and meat packing plants. It's not their kids who are

1098
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: going to be cleaning office buildings at midnight when everyone's

1099
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: gone home. And they know that. And I think that's

1100
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: kind of like one of the big unspoken truths about

1101
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: this whole situation is like it's not just that, you know,

1102
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: Republican legislators in states like Arkansas, Ohio, and Iowa are

1103
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: pushing to roll back child labor laws and so like

1104
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: it's like child labor is going to come back. Like

1105
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: child labor is already here. As I said in my introduction,

1106
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: a lot of it is being done by you know,

1107
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: brown kids, poor kids, black kids, migrant kids, people the

1108
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: most underprotected and underserved populations that we have, and everyone

1109
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: just kind of sits around pretending like it's not happening,

1110
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: even though deep down, I think we all know that

1111
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 1: it is right, and the people pushing this legislation damn

1112
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: well know that as well. And you know that's that's

1113
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: me speaking for myself. I'm not speaking for for Charlie

1114
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: or anyone else here. Just want to be clear there,

1115
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: But like you are right, okay, It's like I'm really

1116
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 1: trying to restrain myself here because I'm about to lose it, man.

1117
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: But like, let's let's put you said something about how

1118
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: like the deeper you dig into this, the more you

1119
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: realize that this is part of a bigger issue, right,

1120
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to focus on that, Like, let's

1121
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 1: let's put this bill in Iowa or these bills in

1122
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: Iowa in context, like along with you know what's going

1123
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: on in Arkansas in Ohio, right, like, because I think

1124
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: people may hear about this and they may wonder, like,

1125
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: well that that may just be like a sort of

1126
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: legislation that's put out by like some fringe elements. You know,

1127
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: it has no you know, hope of passing, YadA, YadA, YadA.

1128
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: So like, how much is this push to roll back

1129
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: child labor laws in multiple states around the country, Like

1130
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: how much of that is actually a fringe movement by

1131
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: the most extreme edges of the business class and it's

1132
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: political acolytes, And how much is it actually symptomatic of

1133
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: a broader onslaught to further weekend labor protections across the

1134
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: board and workplace standards, right and in so doing, to

1135
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: undercut organize labor power, and you know, undercut workers who

1136
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: are trying to make a living wage. Right, I mean,

1137
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: like we everyone knows we're in a what's called a

1138
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: tight labor market right now, right, I mean we talk

1139
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: about this all the time in the reporting we do

1140
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: here at breaking points on my show. Working people at

1141
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: the Real News Network like that. That's why you're seeing

1142
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: or partially why you're seeing a lot of rank and

1143
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: file action. That's why you're seeing people quit their jobs

1144
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 1: in record numbers because they have more leverage to say,

1145
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: if you don't pay me more or treat me better,

1146
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to walk right. At the same time, we've

1147
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: had the you know, the boomer generation I mean, is

1148
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: aging out of you know, the workforce. A lot of

1149
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: people died or got sick or still dealing with long

1150
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: term effects of COVID, right, I mean, so this is

1151
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: the kind of labor situation that we're seeing here, and

1152
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: it feels like this is again me editorializing, this is

1153
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: me hypothesizing. It feels like that rather than I don't know,

1154
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: listen to the concerns of workers, improve your workplace, treat

1155
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: workers better, pay them more, let them have a better

1156
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 1: work life balance, make yourself more attractive to job seekers.

1157
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: Instead of doing that what we are instead doing is

1158
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: saying let's raise the retirement age and let's let kids

1159
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: work at these jobs instead. No, I want to go

1160
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: back to something that you said earlier. It's let's be clear,

1161
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: it's not their kids that we're talking about here. It's

1162
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: it's it's our kids. Right. There's nobody named that's going

1163
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: to be working in a packing house, I guarantee you,

1164
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: and if it is, it has nothing to they're no

1165
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: relation to Senator or Speaker of our House, Pad Grassley.

1166
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: Because you hit on something that's really really important here

1167
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 1: is that while this seems like out of the blue,

1168
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 1: out of left field, this wasn't on my Bengo card, right. No,

1169
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: what is going on here, in large part is a

1170
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: legalization of bad practices that are already going on. You

1171
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: just saw the Department of Labor uncover hundreds of violations

1172
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: in meat packing plants of people who are under the

1173
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: legal age doing cleaning services. But this is just like

1174
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: one that's one industry, one section. This is going on

1175
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: all over the place. I think there was a New

1176
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: York Times article earlier where there's a girl who's a

1177
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 1: young Latina I believe, who's fifteen who's working past midnight

1178
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: to make our cheerios. Right. This is multiinational corporations. They're

1179
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: trying to legalize their already bad practices. And last year,

1180
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: I think we saw the big push in a lot

1181
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: of states, including ours, was let's go after unemployment because

1182
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 1: really the problem is that there's just a bunch of

1183
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: lazy people out there sitting at home watching Judge Judy

1184
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. Well, like you just explained, that's not the case,

1185
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 1: that's not where this is coming from. You've got a

1186
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: whole bunch of people who are just fed up with

1187
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: it all. We've had, i'd say a number of strikes.

1188
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: Our most high profile one here in the Midwest and

1189
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: in Iowa I think has been the John Deere strike,

1190
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: But there's been so many that you have heard of,

1191
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,439
Speaker 1: and this really has picked up since the pandemic. It's

1192
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 1: because people have had enough. It's because they've been called

1193
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: essential for three years now and they get treated as

1194
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: nothing but expendable. And you go to any picket line

1195
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: and the first things out of their mouths when you're

1196
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: talking to a member who's on strike, they know exactly

1197
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: how much their company made during the pandemic, and they

1198
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: know exactly how much their CEO made during the pandemic,

1199
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: and they know exactly how much they're making, and they

1200
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: know they know that trickle down isn't trickling down to

1201
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,959
Speaker 1: them on the corporate side. Now, we got to help

1202
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: them understand the tax side of it as well, that

1203
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: trickle down isn't working for the working class of this country.

1204
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: Never has. But this is just part of the bigger

1205
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 1: picture of what's going on here. I think you had

1206
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: so many great points in your editorializing. I wouldn't call

1207
01:07:56,200 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: them editorializing their opinions, I'd call them facts. Thanks man,

1208
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And again I just I beg people, right,

1209
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: don't push this under the rug, right, don't just hope

1210
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: that this is going to go away, right? I mean,

1211
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: because it's not right. You know, this is the most

1212
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 1: craven crap that you can imagine. But they're going to

1213
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: keep pushing it if they can get away with it, right,

1214
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 1: and if we keep buying these bs justifications for it,

1215
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 1: if we believe the corporate manufactured narrative that quote, no

1216
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: one wants to work anymore and that's why businesses have

1217
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 1: to seek fourteen year olds to do these jobs. Bull crap. Right,

1218
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: listen to my show, Listen to the workers I talk

1219
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 1: to every single week, and tell me that people don't

1220
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: want to work. Then you'll actually hear directly from the

1221
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,640
Speaker 1: mouths of the people who make our society run, the

1222
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 1: people delivering our packages, picking our food, delivering our grocery,

1223
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. Right, I mean, these are

1224
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 1: hardworking people who are being taken advantage of left and right.

1225
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: You to listen to workers, not to overpay pundits, not

1226
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: to bought off politicians, and not to chamber of commerce

1227
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: boot liquors. And I also wanted to, if I may

1228
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: editorialize one more time, just really entreat people to understand

1229
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: that as we as a society that has can agree

1230
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: that this is not worth it, This is not this

1231
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: child labor crap needs to stay in the past. We

1232
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: also need to soberly acknowledge that, you know, the thing

1233
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: that is always in the back of our minds, but

1234
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: that we, especially here in the West, especially in developed countries,

1235
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: have the luxury of pushing out of our view right,

1236
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,240
Speaker 1: pushing out of into the back of our minds. You

1237
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: already know what I'm about to say, but it needs

1238
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 1: to be said. Your phones right, have minerals are made

1239
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: from minerals that are mined by children around the world. Right,

1240
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:50,719
Speaker 1: A lot of the food that you eat is picked

1241
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 1: by literal children. A lot of the clothes that we

1242
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: wear is made by in sweatshops that are contracted out

1243
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: to some of the biggest brands around the world. We

1244
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: know that this is a problem, but we just allow

1245
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: ourselves to comfortably put it out of sight, out of mind.

1246
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: So even as we address it here in the United States,

1247
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 1: we need to understand that this is the direction that

1248
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 1: the business class that capital that the ruling and order

1249
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: giving class always want to move. They want to close

1250
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: down in dust industries in the United States and move

1251
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 1: them across the border where they can pay workers next

1252
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: to nothing. Right. They want to always search for the

1253
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: lowest possible wage they can pay the most and the

1254
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 1: most exploited they can make their workforce so that they

1255
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: can pocket all the difference. That is what this is

1256
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: really about, in my opinion, And we're not going to

1257
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: be able to address the systemic issue there unless we

1258
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 1: understand that this is not something new, This is not

1259
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 1: something that is just happening in red states or you know,

1260
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: like random parts of the country. It's happening all over

1261
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 1: the place, and it is happening sadly all over the world,

1262
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 1: but there are things that we can do to fight

1263
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: against it. And Charlie Wit the remaining couple of minutes

1264
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 1: that I have you, I just wanted to turn it

1265
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 1: over to you and ask what can people do to

1266
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: push back against this? And what is being done on

1267
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 1: say the labor side and the legislative side, and like

1268
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 1: how does the Department of Labor factor in all of this?

1269
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: Sure all very good questions, So number one I would say,

1270
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 1: like always, whether you think you're being heard or not,

1271
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: you have to contact your legislators, even if you don't

1272
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 1: believe that they're listening. The last thing that you ever

1273
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 1: want to hear is them come back to you when

1274
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 1: you complain to them about it later during election time

1275
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: or whenever, them saying well, I never heard from you

1276
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: about this, which sometimes is a BS deflection, but sometimes

1277
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: it's true. So they absolutely absolutely need to hear from

1278
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: you in whatever form possible. We also need to make

1279
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 1: sure that even in states like ours, where legislatively and

1280
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 1: both inside the capitol and outside the capitol, we're trying

1281
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 1: to raise hell to make sure that our voices are heard.

1282
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: But knowing that some version of this is likely to pass.

1283
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: You know who knows. I believe in believing right, and

1284
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:22,759
Speaker 1: that's what we do in the labor movement. But gosh,

1285
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 1: we have to make sure that our voices are heard

1286
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: in all kinds of different ways. So write letters to

1287
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 1: the editor, write op ed pieces. Even if this isn't

1288
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 1: happening in your state, it is coming to your state soon,

1289
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 1: I promise you. I feel like I'm out here with

1290
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 1: a lot of other people who are trying to jump

1291
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:45,759
Speaker 1: up and down and and raise the flag and say, hey, listen,

1292
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: help us stop this thing. Because we can stop this

1293
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: in a red farming state like ours, which by the way,

1294
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 1: wasn't always read and we can come back from this.

1295
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 1: But like, if we can do this here, we can

1296
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: stop this from moving all across the country. But again,

1297
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 1: if it hasn't even gotten there yet, you know, make

1298
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:13,680
Speaker 1: sure that this issue is front and center and preemptively

1299
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: make this an issue, and make it make it so

1300
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: that it's just deplorable for anyone to even want to

1301
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,000
Speaker 1: bring up. I mean, there's a reason why our governor

1302
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 1: and why workforce development will have to look in note

1303
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: in the minutes from you know, the board meetings and

1304
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: things to find out that they've been working on it

1305
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 1: because they wanted a secret because they know it looks

1306
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: like crap. So one of the most important points here, Max,

1307
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we have the Department of Labor

1308
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: that is typically relies on waiting until state legislation has

1309
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:53,759
Speaker 1: passed before they'll come in and actually enforce the rules,

1310
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: regulations and laws that are already on the books before

1311
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: they tell us state, hey, you can't do that. And

1312
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: too often our progressives forget that the courts are not

1313
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:09,679
Speaker 1: our friends and that we can't rely on them really

1314
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: for anything. And unfortunately, you know, part of the bigger

1315
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 1: picture here too is that this is another attack on

1316
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 1: the federal government to be able to enforce on states

1317
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: what is right in terms of federal labor standards. And

1318
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just about this, It's about so

1319
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: many different things that we see weakened. But it's this is,

1320
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, we cannot pretend like there's only two branches

1321
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 1: of government. Progressives need to realize and take seriously that

1322
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: there are three branches of government and that our courts

1323
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 1: are are in big trouble. And then we have to

1324
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 1: take that seriously, and not only that, we need to

1325
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: make sure that corporations are forced to do what they

1326
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: are supposed to do, because we know too often that

1327
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: unless it's at legislative or regulatory gunpoint, they're not going

1328
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:11,879
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. So that is Charlie Wishman,

1329
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 1: who currently serves as president of the Iowa Federation of

1330
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: Labor AFL CIO. Charlie, thank you so much for joining

1331
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 1: us today on Breaking Points and helping us break this down. Man,

1332
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,960
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate it. Thank you for having me,

1333
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 1: and I think right now we're at the stage where

1334
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 1: we're just really uncovering a national tragedy that has been

1335
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,800
Speaker 1: going on for a while now. But the next time

1336
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 1: we talk, hopefully that we're going to be talking about

1337
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 1: how things are moving in the right direction and that

1338
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: we were able to maybe either if we're not able

1339
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 1: to stop this, how we are able to push back

1340
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: all over the country and make sure that not only

1341
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 1: are we were making this a better world for workers,

1342
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: but for our kids and generations to come. So thank

1343
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: you very much, appreciate it all. Right back at you, brother,

1344
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: and thank you all for watching this segment with breaking

1345
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 1: points and be sure to subscribe to my news outlet,

1346
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 1: the Real News Network, with links in the description to

1347
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,040
Speaker 1: this video. See you soon for the next edition of

1348
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: the Art of Class War. Take care of yourselves, take

1349
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: care of each other. Solidarity Forever,