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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told you a protection of iHeartRadio. And before we

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Speaker 1: get into this one, I just want to ride out

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Speaker 1: the gate. I give you a content warning for just

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Speaker 1: general grossness, like all around misogyny, unhealthy body images, unhealthy

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Speaker 1: body stereotypes, self harming behavior, not great uses of cosmetic surgery,

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Speaker 1: body dysmorphia, suicide, and violence. We're not going to go

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Speaker 1: to in depth on any of those things, but they

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Speaker 1: are throughout. So this is I was telling Samantha, anytime

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Speaker 1: you talk about in cells, you know it's gonna be rough, right.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the I don't think this is

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Speaker 1: actually a healthy thing, but it's one of the few

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Speaker 1: episodes I've had to stop researching. And it's a short

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Speaker 1: short because it just like physically made me feel sick.

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Speaker 1: You are not going to I had to like read

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Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff just to get these facts that

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Speaker 1: just were miserable.

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Speaker 2: But here we are.

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Speaker 1: I also want to give two disclaimers at the top.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of what I read about this,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuance when it comes to getting

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Speaker 1: cosmetic surgery. That's that's often lost I think, and it

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Speaker 1: is really hard to untangle. It's really hard to untangle

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Speaker 1: why you want something. There's been so much research around

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Speaker 1: like how filters and PACTAP people are seen and how

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Speaker 1: they want to be seen body dysmorphia in general when

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Speaker 1: it comes to cosmetic surgery. But if you're coming from

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Speaker 1: a healthy space and you know what you want, you're

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Speaker 1: consenting adults cosmetic surgery, no judgment, Like it's just complicated

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Speaker 1: because of so many so much of the messaging we get,

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Speaker 1: even in cosmetic surgery, ads that make it feel very toxic,

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Speaker 1: make it feel very erase your age, achieve this one

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Speaker 1: body type that is usually kind of a white European

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Speaker 1: body type. So it's complicated, That's what I'm saying. It's nuanced,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of that is lost in

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Speaker 1: this conversation. Also a lot of the people who try

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Speaker 1: to defend what we're talking about, which is in cells

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Speaker 1: getting a specific type of cosmetic surgery, bring trans people

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Speaker 1: into the conversation and like masculinization, feminization surgery, just don't

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Speaker 1: that's not the same thing.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that later. It's not the

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Speaker 2: same thing.

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Speaker 1: But also there is conversation within the trans community that

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Speaker 1: I am not qualified to speak on about that, but

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Speaker 1: I just want to make note of it. But that

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Speaker 1: is the thing. Also, there's a huge conversation that happens

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Speaker 1: anytime something comes out about in cells, where it's like,

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Speaker 1: are you giving them a platform? Are you giving them sympathy?

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Speaker 1: I think there's a difference between giving platform and sympathy

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Speaker 1: versus just pointing out something that is terrible that is

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Speaker 1: happening that we should talk about, like being aware of

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Speaker 1: how toxic this is, so.

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Speaker 3: We need to know. It's kind of that whole level

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Speaker 3: of like when we talked about crime podcasts and about

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Speaker 3: why women are fascinated, it's not and it's gotten toxic.

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Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong, there's always toxic levels to everything,

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Speaker 3: but there is this level of, like you need to

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Speaker 3: be aware of what is happening. When we talked about

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Speaker 3: the chat fishing m they're doing.

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Speaker 2: A lot lately.

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Speaker 3: I feel like they're doing a lot, and I think

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Speaker 3: a part of that is because people are now kind

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Speaker 3: of jaded by it and just lets them be and

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Speaker 3: makes them a joke and moves on, which is a

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Speaker 3: mistake because we know.

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Speaker 2: People get hurt.

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Speaker 3: So like the big conversation is it's not giving them

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Speaker 3: a platform, it's making sure we are aware because we

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Speaker 3: need to know because if we don't, Andrew takes of

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Speaker 3: the world exist and come out as bigger and they

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Speaker 3: actually profit and create a bigger circle. And that's dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I think like there's so much in this

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Speaker 1: conversation we're about to have that is disturbing in terms

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Speaker 1: of in so much of the stuff we've internalized and

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Speaker 1: these inseels have internalized and use it to commit violent acts.

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Speaker 1: There dangerous violent people, and there's like multiple examples of it.

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Speaker 1: So it is important that we know that we talk

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Speaker 1: about these things. So I was at the beach. Listeners

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Speaker 1: was at the beach. This is how the idea came

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Speaker 1: to me. I was trying to write fan fiction, which

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Speaker 1: thank you to all my friends who were with me

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Speaker 1: for like really supporting me and giving me ideas, also

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Speaker 1: telling me how CPR currently works.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: But we were talking about I was trying to describe

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Speaker 1: a character and I was trying to describe his chin,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, there is a word that goes

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Speaker 1: like typically goes.

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Speaker 2: With chin, and I can't think of it. And I

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Speaker 2: was like asking them for help.

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Speaker 1: And one of my friends was like, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: a big in cell thing, right, like this kind of

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Speaker 1: fixation on the chin. And I did not know that,

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Speaker 1: even though I think we probably did talk about it.

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Speaker 1: We have done an episode on in cells before we

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Speaker 1: did chat fushing, I think we've done some other adjacent things.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Either I purposefully like shot it

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Speaker 1: out of my brain or we didn't talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Could be either, but yeah, she was like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's a huge thing, and that sound of the rabbit

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Speaker 1: holes started, and here we all are.

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Speaker 2: She also, I love this. She just said so flippantly.

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Speaker 2: These dudes don't know what women want.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, yeah, not wrong at all, but okay,

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Speaker 1: So I went on this rabbit hole and the chin is, yes,

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Speaker 1: a huge point of discussion in the in cell community.

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Speaker 1: If you somehow haven't heard of it, that is involuntary

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Speaker 1: celibate community. And I want to be one thousand percent

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Speaker 1: clear here. It is really a gross, unhealthy discussion, no surprise,

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Speaker 1: that is soaked with layers of ableism, racism, sexism, and

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Speaker 1: just unhealthy ideas and fixations around beauty. There are very

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Speaker 1: specific measurements for the chin that separates the in cell

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Speaker 1: from the chad. And if you remember from our in

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Speaker 1: cell episode, the chad is like your traditional hot guy

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Speaker 1: that all the women are going for. That's the simplest

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Speaker 1: way to put it. That they are not. And so

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Speaker 1: in cells slash non chads despise chads for this, but

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Speaker 1: they also often believe that being a chad would greatly

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Speaker 1: improve their lives. So this has involved a vast array

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Speaker 1: of things like skincare, bodybuilding, taking steroids, stretching their penises, mewing,

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Speaker 1: which is building your master muscles by chewing hard things

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Speaker 1: and is named after the two British orthodonists who hypothesized

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Speaker 1: this method, and that's to make your jaw more prominent,

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Speaker 1: and more recently, cosmetic surgery. So from the cut, here's

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Speaker 1: a quote. Cosmetic surgery among people who identify as mal

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Speaker 1: arose three hundred and twenty five percent between nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: seven and twenty fifteen in the US, according to the

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Speaker 1: American Society for Esthetic Plastic Surgery. And also just another

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Speaker 1: note here that isn't all in cells, and there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of toxic stuff around body types masculine or feminine,

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Speaker 1: anything in between that's going on in that as well,

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Speaker 1: and also just yeah, healthy consensing. I want to do this,

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Speaker 1: but to be clear, there's a lot more going on

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Speaker 1: in that statistics in cells are doing this, but it

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Speaker 1: has led to some cosmetic surgeons, especially those that perform

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Speaker 1: things like jaw surgery or tescal implants or shoulder roddening

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Speaker 1: or shoulder actually what would that be called making them smaller,

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Speaker 1: to becoming celebrities in the in cell world, sometimes to

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Speaker 1: the surprise of the cosmonic surgeon. In toxic inceell online spaces,

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Speaker 1: the joke in heavy quotes is that the options for

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Speaker 1: an en cell are suicide or cosmetic surgery, and that

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Speaker 1: the only thing keeping a non chad from being a

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Speaker 1: chad is a few millimeters of bone. So there are

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Speaker 1: things like jawser size two, and this is the quip

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Speaker 1: for advice. Jawser size is a patent pending silicon ball

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Speaker 1: that users can chew on systematically in order to exercise

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Speaker 1: their master muscle, which connects the lower jaw to the

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Speaker 1: cheekbones and is most prominent below the ears or the

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Speaker 1: jaw meets the neck. The reasoning goes that an active

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Speaker 1: master muscle is a thicker master muscle and a thicker

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Speaker 1: master muscle makes for a more defined masculine jawline. Ah,

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Speaker 1: this is a different podcast. But there is some purported

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Speaker 1: benefits of this in history around the human jaw and

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Speaker 1: soft foods and the intro of the fork and knife.

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Speaker 1: But this is yeah, that's a different podcast. I was

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Speaker 1: reading this whole paper about it. I was like, whoa, No,

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Speaker 1: this is.

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Speaker 2: Not for today. Not for today.

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Speaker 1: Some expect cosmetic surgery to completely change their life for

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Speaker 1: the better, like literally, you will write in forums if

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Speaker 1: I could get this, I will be a different person.

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Speaker 2: Everyone will love me. I'll get all the women, all

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Speaker 2: the hot women.

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Speaker 1: While others get angry when people do treat them differently

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Speaker 1: after surgery, or they feel that that's their perception that

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Speaker 1: people treat them differently after surgery, like it proves their point, like,

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Speaker 1: c I got this, and now you're being nice to me,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Here's a quote from ABC in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Feminist writer Jessica Valenti has described in cels are not

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Speaker 1: a community of sad men that reflect a societal problem

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Speaker 1: with loneliness. They are a community of violent misogynists that

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Speaker 1: reflect a societal problem with sexism and sexual entitlement. And

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Speaker 1: here's a quote from HuffPo. Males tend to take rejection

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Speaker 1: as a challenge to their masculinity or an insult to

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Speaker 1: their perceived place in the social hierarchy. Women are likely

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Speaker 1: to feel emotionally hurt by rejection and to assume that

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Speaker 1: there is something lacking in them that warranted the rejection.

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Speaker 1: According to Susan and DEJ White, the chair of Northern

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Speaker 1: Illinois University's Department of Counseling, women are encouraged to get

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Speaker 1: over it, but men often feel the need to get

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Speaker 1: even so. I do think this is an important nuance

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Speaker 1: of when we're speaking specifically about in cells and not

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Speaker 1: men who might have body dysmorphia but are not going

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Speaker 1: to be violent towards women or anybody. Just be clear,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, reminder, in cells are violent and dangerous. They

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Speaker 1: have killed, harmed, assaulted, and generally punished and harassed people,

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Speaker 1: mostly women. Here is oh an upsetting rundown about it quote.

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Speaker 1: Elliott Roger, a twenty two year old self proclaimed insel

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Speaker 1: who killed himself and six other people in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: is hailed as an inspiration in in cell forums. The

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Speaker 1: day before his rampage in Ela Vista, California. He uploaded

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Speaker 1: a video to YouTube titled Retribution, which detailed his plan

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Speaker 1: to slaughter every spoiled, stuck up, blonde slut he could

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Speaker 1: find in a nearby sorority house. If I can't have you, girls,

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Speaker 1: I will destroy you, he said in the video. You

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Speaker 1: will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one,

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Speaker 1: the true alpha male. Posts from men who say they

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Speaker 1: dream of going er a reference to Roger's attack are

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Speaker 1: common in inceel and look smax forums. Since his killings,

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Speaker 1: there have been other similar attacks, including one in April

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Speaker 1: this year, when a man rammed a van into a

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Speaker 1: crowd of pedestrians in Toronto, killing eight women and two men.

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Speaker 1: The suspect, twenty five year old Alec Manassian, wrote a

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Speaker 1: post on Facebook shortly before the mascer, declaring the in

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Speaker 1: cell rebellion has already begun and vowing to overthrow all

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Speaker 1: the chads in Stacy's an in cell reference to good

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Speaker 1: looking men and women. After a gunman killed a woman

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Speaker 1: and a ten year old girl this Sunday in Toronto,

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Speaker 1: in cell message boards lit up with excitement that it

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Speaker 1: was possibly the work of a fellow in cell. Police

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Speaker 1: have yet to identify a motive. Anders Bravik, a far

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Speaker 1: right Norwegian chair who killed seventy seven people in twenty

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Speaker 1: eleven when he was thirty two, also expressed violent misogyny

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Speaker 1: and obsessed over his looks, reportedly undergoing cosmetic surgery on

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Speaker 1: his forehead, nose chen before the attack. Other recent mass

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Speaker 1: murders held up as misogynist heroes by INCEL communities include

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Speaker 1: George Sodini, who killed three people and himself in a

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine attack at a women's aerobic class in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: Song Hoi Chow, who killed thirty two people in Virginia

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven after reportedly stalking to women,

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Speaker 1: and Mark Leppenn, who separated male and female students at

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Speaker 1: a Montreal at a Montreal engineering school at nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: nine and opened fire, killing fourteen women. By comparison, zero

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Speaker 1: women have gone on murderous rampages inspired by rejection. Here

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Speaker 1: is an example of a post you of find in

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Speaker 1: one of these forms about the women that they want.

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Speaker 1: Here's a quote short stature, but high e features like

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Speaker 1: relatively big lips, big titties, fat ass, quiet doesn't ever

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Speaker 1: contradict to me. Listens to me vent and tells me

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Speaker 1: I'm right, which I am, gives amazing blowjobs, cooks cleans

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Speaker 1: up after me. Not white but light skin, dark hair

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Speaker 1: is fine, but she should diet a lighter color, pretty

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Speaker 1: face because that matters more than anything. Only dresses modestly

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Speaker 1: out of the house, disparages men who I dislike, and

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Speaker 1: keeps away from my friends in order to appear as

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Speaker 1: a non hypergemist as possible, because she knows that if

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Speaker 1: I ever get a whiff of a cheating whore, I

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Speaker 1: will end her. Also occasional threesomes with other women and

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Speaker 1: she lets me cheat but just doesn't say anything because

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Speaker 1: she knows I need to get my rocks off.

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Speaker 2: Horrible.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm laughing because they're like and no women

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Speaker 3: will have me.

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Speaker 1: Exactly from exactly Samantha.

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Speaker 3: This like is just comical.

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Speaker 2: This white Oh gosh, it's like horrific.

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Speaker 1: And so you can't see how ridiculous this like, Why

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Speaker 1: wouldn't no one want to do that?

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Speaker 2: I don't understand, like i'd.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: And on top of that, there's this hypocrisy of judging

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Speaker 1: ugly and worse women getting cosmetic surgery or on their

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Speaker 1: looks at doing anything for their looks at all, and

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Speaker 1: then themselves whining that there's more of a stigma for

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Speaker 1: men to get cosmetic surgery, which again maybe true, but

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Speaker 1: that can be true while not judging everyone else and

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Speaker 1: being like you're wrong for doing it.

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Speaker 2: Also stop judging me for doing.

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Speaker 3: They're part of the problem why people are being judged

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Speaker 3: to begin.

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Speaker 1: With, exactly, and they are like furious that everything is

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Speaker 1: looks based, but they're the thing. Here's another quote from

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Speaker 1: ABC Australia. Women have endured discriminated vilification and humiliation based

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Speaker 1: on our appearances since pretty much forever, and we get

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Speaker 1: this regardless of whether we are not hashtag hon or not.

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Speaker 1: Yet Amazingly enough, most of us managed to refrain from

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Speaker 1: driving our vands into innocent Canadians, joining sisterly support groups

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Speaker 1: to egg each other on to mass murder, boasting about

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Speaker 1: lacing the office tem tans with our bodily fluids and

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Speaker 1: so on. And this article does acknowledge that there are

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Speaker 1: studied benefits to being traditionally again also read largely white,

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Speaker 1: European beautiful. But there are pitfalls too, especially for women.

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Speaker 1: But there yeah, I mean, there has been study into that.

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Speaker 1: But as they continue quote. Nowhere in the Decoration of

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Speaker 1: human rights does it mention anything about looking like Rihanna.

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Speaker 1: This is a stroke of genetic luck, a freak privilege,

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Speaker 1: not a right to which we're entitled. Then there's the

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Speaker 1: bizarre and cell conviction that the only thing holding them

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Speaker 1: back from having relationships with women are their average looks

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Speaker 1: as opposed to the fact that they loathe us with.

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Speaker 2: A raging fury. Right to your.

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Speaker 1: Point, yes, yes, And then there's like horrific things they

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Speaker 1: say in these forums around corrective rape, around reverse rape,

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Speaker 1: which is basically they're not having any sex reverse rape.

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Speaker 2: But they're dangerous.

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Speaker 1: It's dangerous, it's destructive, as toxic, it's gross. And it's

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Speaker 1: so difficult to untangle a lot of this because in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, another thing TikTok, went viral of an

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Speaker 1: in cel advising other in cells to hit themselves in

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Speaker 1: the face with a hammer.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a weird spot to be in where I

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Speaker 1: feel no sympathy for this fellow. But that's unhealthy, Like

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Speaker 1: look at yourself, right, that's unhealthy.

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Speaker 3: Still trying to understand with all the advance meants and

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Speaker 3: education awareness as accessible now you can google things and

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Speaker 3: youtubes and I know there's also bad players, but like

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Speaker 3: they is like that. And then now the no new

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Speaker 3: borax recommendations. Have you heard of this or any they

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Speaker 3: are I'm gonna put this in quotes help gurus. We'll say,

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Speaker 3: like that are and that makes me sad because the

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Speaker 3: word guru has a specific meaning that is not a whitewash.

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Speaker 3: But you know, we'll just go with that for now.

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Speaker 3: Are telling people they need borax because there is like

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Speaker 3: boric acid, like there is a level that you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to have naturally. So their response is, yeah, chemicals, let

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Speaker 3: me do that. Same way with like the pods as

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Speaker 3: well as abermactin like all these things. They are like,

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Speaker 3: this is not smart. Please listen to doctors, but they

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Speaker 3: don't want to for some odd reason because they really

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Speaker 3: think that this is going to advance them, that's not

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Speaker 3: gonna turn their health absolutely wrecked. Like it's just like, huh,

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Speaker 3: why why are we listening? Why? Why why are you

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Speaker 3: hitting yourself with a that's not gonna make you better, guarantee.

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Speaker 1: Right, And that was one of the big things that

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Speaker 1: I took away was sort of going back to that

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Speaker 1: point that this article made was a lot of these

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Speaker 1: people do experience body dysmorphia and that is the thing

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Speaker 1: we should talk about. But again, women do, trans people do,

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Speaker 1: non binary people do, and they don't kill. Like there's

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Speaker 1: a difference between yes, we should deal with body dysmorphia

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Speaker 1: and feeling sympathy around that and someone taking that using

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Speaker 1: it as an excuse for that's why I made. I

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Speaker 1: killed people or made their lives miserable.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's different.

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Speaker 3: Odd disconnect that I there's no reasoning, there's there will

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Speaker 3: there will never be reasoning until they themselves realize what

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Speaker 3: the main problem is and that could never happen. Let's

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Speaker 3: just be real honest, because when we talk about like

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Speaker 3: narcissism and how many men develop and what that looks like,

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Speaker 3: because it's that level of like I'm not the problem,

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Speaker 3: you're the problem, yeah, and then jumping ahead to be

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Speaker 3: being making a problem. Like again, that odd message I

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Speaker 3: got from the dude that immediately didn't say hi, I'm

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Speaker 3: so so, it literally says I'm messaging you knowing that

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Speaker 3: you hate Asian men and probably never date me. That's

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Speaker 3: the first thing I got, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm scared now. Also like that's like that immediate jump

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Speaker 3: of like, instead of being witty or funny or joking

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Speaker 3: or anything else, or just saying hello, that's the response.

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Speaker 3: Like those other people, I may very well not respond

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Speaker 3: because I don't think we're a match. I will look

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Speaker 3: at your site and I won't match with these I'm like, eh,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to, but I will hit a block

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Speaker 3: button real quick and probably post a picture and be

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Speaker 3: like girls beware, mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Well, And that's that's one of the most frustrating things

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Speaker 1: about this too, is we talk about this all the time.

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Speaker 1: I feel like are especially in heterin order of spaces,

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Speaker 1: dating has become so women feel like they are they're

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Speaker 1: being told to like gatekeep protect themselves.

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Speaker 2: They see of what happens in things like.

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Speaker 1: This, and then men, some of them, many of them

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Speaker 1: not in cells, feel like women are not going to

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Speaker 1: go on dates with them, and it's just like this

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Speaker 1: really toxic kind of self fulfilling thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean rejection. Hopefully men won't turn to in cells

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Speaker 2: all men after being rejected.

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Speaker 1: But it's sad because I think like a lot of

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Speaker 1: dating has become so for women, very fear based and

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Speaker 1: very like how can I keep myself safe and maybe

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Speaker 1: you would match with more people if you weren't concerned

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 3: Right, or taking tricks, this whole level of tricking women too,

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00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 3: there's that whole other level of like again, dating guy,

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Speaker 3: the get a girl this way type, like yeah, pick

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Speaker 3: up dudes. All of that was such a fad that

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Speaker 3: people believe this, And the realization is women are women

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Speaker 3: are human. We're human just what we pick up on

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Speaker 3: things too, and we know insincerity for the most part,

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Speaker 3: And unless we're playing a game with you, as you're

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Speaker 3: playing a game with us, we're not interested in that.

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Speaker 3: That's not that that will never be a thing from

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Speaker 3: whomever you're looking for, Like that's that's gonna be whether

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Speaker 3: it's like you're finding a match because you're trying to

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Speaker 3: find someone on like economic level, economic status, those tricks

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Speaker 3: don't work, like if you don't have it to begin with,

378
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Speaker 3: there not going to win or you're not going to

379
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Speaker 3: be datable for them.

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Speaker 2: Right, and again that that like level of hypocrisy.

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Speaker 1: If she has to look this certain way, I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to look a certain way, Right, she has to

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Speaker 1: do these certain things, I shouldn't have to do those

384
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Speaker 1: certain things. I can cheat and do whatever she can't

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Speaker 1: if I get a whiff of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and by the way, those are not empty threats.

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Speaker 3: We know that we know that the majority of women

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Speaker 3: who are murdered are by their partner. Like we know

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Speaker 3: femicide is a thing based on the fact that you

390
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Speaker 3: feel rejected, angrier heart and have a right to a woman.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's like an object not a person.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: And another thing that really infuriated me doing this research

394
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Speaker 1: is so many not so many, like a handful of

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Speaker 1: the men who like left the forums, who aren't like

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Speaker 1: active in the in cell community anymore. Reporters will track

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Speaker 1: down and they have now they have a woman in

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Speaker 1: their data and the partner, and they're seemed happy, and

399
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Speaker 1: they'll beg the reporter like, please don't tell her.

400
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen a lot of that.

401
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: You were so willing to encourage all of this violence,

402
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: real violence, we have seen.

403
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Speaker 2: You were supportive of it. You hated women.

404
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: Now you found someone, and you are just going to

405
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Speaker 1: try to sweep all of.

406
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Speaker 3: That away and hope that no one finds out because

407
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 3: you know how wrong it is. Actually recently, I just

408
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: watched a TikTok You're Welcome in which a woman was

409
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Speaker 3: talking to a group of dudes and it was a

410
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: young it would tell you tell they the teenagers, like

411
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Speaker 3: definitely under twenty one. All of them were wearing a

412
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Speaker 3: fun little place with smiley faces on that and talking

413
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Speaker 3: about how much they loved Andrew Tait and felt like

414
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Speaker 3: he was right about women and they were talking about

415
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Speaker 3: the superiority of men. But as teenage boys, they knew

416
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: that this was going to scar them. But they still

417
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 3: want to follow that line and we know this is

418
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Speaker 3: the like they were one step ahead. I'll give them that,

419
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Speaker 3: like previously in the generations before where they were like

420
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Speaker 3: I'm behind the screen. They'll never know in realizing oh wait,

421
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 3: they do know, and guarantee they'll still be able to

422
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: figure it out. People will still be able to figure

423
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: out who these boys were. But the fact is, like

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00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: they know they're doing something wrong and something that's going

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Speaker 3: to damage them. But yet so I they know even

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Speaker 3: when they before, however angry they are, that this is

427
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Speaker 3: a bad thing. So it's kind of like, then, yeah,

428
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Speaker 3: why do you think you deserve good things?

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Speaker 2: Right? Right?

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Speaker 1: It's like I think they feel like they have to

431
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: hide but are so proud of secretly, right, it's a

432
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Speaker 1: very bizarre, very strange, toxic thing.

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Speaker 3: It's just my opinion. Yeah, and it's the right opinion.

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Speaker 3: But I can't show my face.

435
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Speaker 1: Right exactly exactly that always anytime someone's like, you can't

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00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: talk about this. I've done nothing wrong, but we must

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Speaker 1: never raise some eyebrows alpha.

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Speaker 3: But I'm almost scared.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh. Well, I'm sure we'll come back

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Speaker 1: to this because this is like but one facet of

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Speaker 1: the things I found in this rabbit hole. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: it's it. It is upsetting, but we do need to

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00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: we need to talk about it. But and is it

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00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: for today?

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00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: Please?

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00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: If you have any any thoughts about this, any other

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00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: topics we should research. I've draw in a breath because

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00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: it'll be tough, but I we should do it.

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Speaker 2: Let us know.

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Speaker 1: You can email us at Stephanie and Momsteff at iHeartMedia

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00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom

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00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: step podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuffane never

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00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: told you. We also have a tea public store and

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00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: a book audiobook and a physical book that you can

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Speaker 1: career at Stuff you should read Books dot com. Thanks

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00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,479
Speaker 1: as always to a super reduce Christina our executive producer

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Speaker 1: Maya and our contribut for Joey, Thank you and thanks

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00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stefan Never Told You is production

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Speaker 1: of my Heart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you

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00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or

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00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: where you listen to your favorite shows.