1 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Woke AF with me Danielle Moody. Since the 2 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: beginning of the year, I have been bringing you conversations 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: with thought leaders and changemakers in art, activism, wellness, and more. 4 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: Starting next week, I'm going to be bringing you five 5 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: new podcasts every single week from Monday through Friday, with 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: more of a focus on my own thoughts and perspectives, 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: while still sharing taste of my conversation with the amazing 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: woke guests I talk with every week on my Patreon, 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: which you can always support on patreon dot com slash 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: woke AF to get the full Woke AF daily experience. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: To bring to a close these weekly shows, I wanted 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: to share my full conversation with Emma Davery, author of 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: the new book What White People Can Do Next. It 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: is not a book for white people, but about white 15 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: people and the how and why of their creation of 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: race as a social construct in order to subjugate non 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: white people enforced white supremacy. Our conversation went deep into 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: the connection between the construction of race and the system 19 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: of global capitalism, so you'll definitely want to listen closely 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: to this half hour conversation. Emma, talk to me about 21 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: what drove you to write this guide for non people 22 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: of color. Okay, so first of all, I would say 23 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: it is posing as a guide for non people of color, 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: but that's not what it is. It's something while others 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: have actually described it as a as a trojan horse. 26 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: Quite a few of my black friends and peers were 27 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: even a little bit you know side when the book 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: was first was first announced. This has been a conversation 29 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: that we've been having, like quite publicly. However, when they 30 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: actually read the book, they were like, no, this book 31 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: was not what I thought it was. And actually there's 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: a lot in here for to be honest, like I 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't have the energy or the inclination to just write 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: a guide book to white people to kind of try 35 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: to teach them how to better recognize my humanity, which 36 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: is something I kind of say in the beginning of 37 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: the book. There are things that white people racialized as white, 38 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: can implement that would lead us towards the world we 39 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: need to be trying to create. But there are also 40 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: ways of thinking and engaging and acting that actually everybody 41 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: could implement that there's ways that we can kind of 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: shift the ways in which we talk about certain issues 43 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: and the way our solutions to them, You know that 44 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: I think that I think it's powerful for everybody to 45 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: think about. I taught African studies for over ten years 46 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: at a university in the UK, and so I'm actually 47 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: drawing on, you know, some African philosophies. I draw a 48 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: lot on the Black radical tradition. You know, most of 49 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: the sources and literature that I am drawing on and 50 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: that I am grounded in, you know, from African studies 51 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: and from the Black radical tradition, which I think puts 52 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: this book slightly in contrast to a lot of the 53 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: other more recent anti racist titles which are grounded more 54 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: in current articulation of anti racism. That I a mainstream 55 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: kind of anti racism that I'm a little bit critical 56 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: of within the book, shall we say? So, I would 57 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: say that I am located in a different intellectual tradition, 58 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: I guess than a lot of the other anti racist 59 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: literature that is popular at the moment. Do you think, 60 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: you know, because there are so many things that have 61 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: come into our lexicon, anti racism being one of them, 62 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: right like, we have moved at least in the United States, 63 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: and so I would love your thoughts as a person 64 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: being from across the pond in the UK. You know 65 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 1: how we moved from a place of we just wanted 66 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: to tolerate people, right, then we wanted to accept them. 67 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: Then we moved into a place where no, it's not 68 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: enough to just you know, accept somebody's differences. Now we 69 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: want you to not just not be a racist, right, 70 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: we want you to be anti racist. Do you think 71 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: that this progression is just a progression that is in 72 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: name only? Do you think that it is possible in 73 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: all honesty for someone to be anti racist? So I 74 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: think in our current articulation of the problem, it is 75 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: not possible. One of the things that I was concerned 76 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: with and that I writing against is the fact that 77 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: we are so we're now having finally, we're having this 78 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: like mainstream conversation where racism and anti racism is high 79 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: on the agenda. And yet within that conversation, what I 80 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: felt was absent was the real kind of grappling with 81 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: an understanding of the fact that race is a social construction, 82 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: and that the idea of a white race and subsequently 83 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: a black race was very intentionally created, engineered and kind 84 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: of spread through law and legislation from whence it took 85 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: root and became you know, kind of far more of 86 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: a psychological attachment, but it was done. It's as recent 87 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 1: as the seventeenth century. The first time we see whiteness 88 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: introduced as the idea of a white race introduced is 89 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: in the colonial Caribbean in Barbados, and quite shortly after 90 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: that we see it in North America in places like Virginia. Sorry, 91 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: and it's from from there. The idea, you know, spreads 92 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: kind of throughout the world. But the reason that it 93 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: is created and invented is explicitly to create and enshrine 94 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: a notion of white superiority and to justify the subjugation 95 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: of African people, people of African descent, that these colonial 96 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: economies are becoming increasingly dependent on. It's in that period 97 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: that we that we start to see all of these 98 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: negative assumptions and ideas being attached to black to people 99 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: who are racialized as black, and until we grapple with 100 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: the real and also this is intimately connected to the 101 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: beginning of the system of global capitalism that we currently 102 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: still live under a version of, and so much of 103 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: the liberal anti racist conversation seems like it's doubling down 104 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: on the truth status of race, rather than grappling with 105 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: the artificial nature of it and really helping people truly 106 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: understand why and when the when and why these categories 107 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: were created. Until we start to be able to see 108 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: outside of race as a biological truth and reality, I 109 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: think it will be impossible to actually have an anti 110 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: racist world. Race as we understand it today was invented 111 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: to justify racism. Until we fully understand that, we will 112 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: continue to we will continue to have racism, you know. 113 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: And again, what I think a lot of the mainstream 114 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: conversation is also devoid of. What tends to be absent 115 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: is that intimacy and that connection between the invention of 116 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: race and capitalism. And so much of the current anti 117 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: racist mainstream liberal discourse does not engage with capitalism. It 118 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: acts as though racism is, you know, kind of occurring 119 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: in a vacuum in which capitalism doesn't exist. So two 120 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: of the things that I really wanted to have central 121 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: in the book were when and why race was invented 122 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: and that relationship between the invention of race and capitalism. 123 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: You know, I think that it's really interesting because the 124 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: reality is, I always go back to a Tony Morrison 125 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: quote that I will butcher, but the essence of it 126 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: being that racism is a distraction, right, and that when 127 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: you are grappling with people to your earlier point, I'm 128 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: not here to convince you of my humanity. Right like that, 129 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: that is no longer a place where I find myself. 130 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: When I was much younger, growing up in eastern Long 131 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: Island in New York, in a ninety six percent white area, 132 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: I had a different sentiment, right, because I just wanted 133 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: to fit in. Right, As I have gotten older and 134 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: thinking to myself, well, why am I sitting here explaining 135 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: myself to you? It is a waste of my energy 136 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: and is a waste of breath. I think. What is 137 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: what I find problematic about where we are is that 138 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: you are presenting a very intellectual and thoughtful argument about 139 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: how we got the way we are, right, about how 140 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: we arrived at this place where we have people literally 141 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: and I have my friend that comes on the show 142 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: all the time who wrote the book Dying of Whiteness. 143 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: That is that we are at a place where around 144 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: the world, not just in the United States, but we 145 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: are dying of whiteness because we refuse to have a 146 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: thoughtful conversation about why race was created in the first place, 147 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: and that to have that conversation absent of the purpose 148 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: of the creation, which was slavery to justify to justify 149 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: the slave t And even now we have politicians in 150 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: that are sitting members of Congress right now that say 151 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: that that slavery wasn't necessary. Evil continue and that will 152 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: continue with that narration. We're fighting right now in twenty 153 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: two states in this country that have banned critical race theory. 154 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: So we can't even get emma to where you want 155 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: us to go because we are we are not even 156 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: allowed to open the book. Is what they is what 157 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: they have created in twenty two states here. And so 158 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: I wonder, you know, at a time when we're still 159 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: trying to convince people of the fact that racism exists, 160 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: that white privilege is a thing, that everything is intertwined 161 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: in this way where we're still it's like I'm trying 162 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: to convince you that the sky is blue and yet 163 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: the earth is on fire. Right, So I can't have 164 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: any more complicated conversation about how we fix anything if 165 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: I have to convince you that it exists. So you know, 166 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: so how you how do you deal with the real 167 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: like that reality. And obviously, I mean, you lay out 168 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: so many things in your book, but I find myself, 169 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: I guess, in this place of hopelessness because if I'm 170 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: still trying to convince you of the thing that we're 171 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: not we're not moving, we're not getting anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 172 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: I completely hear that. Like, in many ways, with what 173 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: I was writing, I wanted to create a compelling narrative 174 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: as to why it would be in the best interests 175 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: of most people in the world to actually really interrogate 176 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: whiteness and for people who are racialized as white to 177 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: come to understand that in many ways whiteness was invented 178 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: to hoodwink many of them as well. Come on so 179 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: interesting for me to explore as somebody who grew up 180 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: in Ireland and as a white Irish mother, and Ireland 181 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: has an interesting position in all of this, given that 182 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: I think my early reckoning with racism and my early 183 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: kind of radicalism I would say from a young age 184 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: was in many ways a direct consequence of I spent 185 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: the first I was born in Dublin, but I spent 186 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: the first few years of my life in Atlanta, Georgia. 187 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: My dad was studying at Morehouse. So I went from 188 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: being in a very black environment for the first few 189 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: years of my life to moving to Ireland. Back to 190 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: Ireland in the mid nineteen eighties as a small child 191 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: and being confronted with a very in your face and 192 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: explicit form of racism that I think was actually quite 193 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: quite unusual, I think in other like in the it's 194 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: certainly never something I experienced in Atlanta. And I realized 195 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: that the investment in white supremacy, you know, is far 196 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,239 Speaker 1: more entrenched in the United States than it is in Ireland. 197 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: Yet in Ireland, where there hadn't really been the opportunity 198 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: for the development of an institutionalized of more institutionalized racism 199 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: because of the physical absence of black people or people 200 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: of color from that environment. At that time it was 201 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: like a ninety nine point nine percent country. Attitudes and 202 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: ideas about black people had very much been imported from 203 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: both America and the United States. So I came up 204 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: against that in a very interpersonal and confrontational way from 205 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: a young age, which is what really led me to, 206 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, to a very young interest in black history 207 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: and African studies and whatnot. But I've always been interested 208 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: in that position of the Irish as both colonized because 209 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: Ireland was colonized Britain by England for over eight hundred years, 210 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: so Ireland as both colonized and as colonizer, and the 211 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: way that Irish behaved, many of the Irish behaved when 212 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: they went to the United States fleeing the famine in 213 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: the mid in the mid nineteenth century, their level of 214 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: investment in white supremacy, and rather than having any kind 215 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: of you know, solidarity with black Americans who might have 216 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: imagined there would be a natural sympathy between the two groups, 217 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: there was quite quite the opposite. And you see again 218 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: and again how the Irish, who are not immediately included 219 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: as categorized as white, people who were not at first 220 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: seen as being racialized as white, very much invested in 221 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: the project of white supremacy in order to access the 222 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: material benefits of that. So with that history and mind, 223 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: I was interested in thinking about how the Irish came 224 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: to be racialized as white and how I could kind 225 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: of use that to explore these kind of contradictions and 226 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: diseases which can still exist within whiteness. And I was 227 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: really fascinated to see that or to learn that when 228 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: you see whiteness. First. The idea of a white race 229 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: first introduced, and it's through a series of slave codes 230 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: in colonial Barbados in sixteen sixty one. The first time 231 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: that happens is actually as a reaction against the number 232 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: of uprisings that are happening between indentured Irish and Barbados. 233 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: Indentured Irish and Barbados are not yet raciable. The idea 234 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: of a white category doesn't exist yet. You have indentured 235 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: Irish there, and as they cannot keep up with the 236 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: labor demands, you are beginning to see more and more 237 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: kidnapped Africans being brought into that to that place to 238 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: meet those labor demands. And there a number a series 239 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: of uprisings occur where the indentured Irish and the enslaved Africans, 240 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: who do not yet see themselves as black or white 241 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: people that concept hasn't been created yet, come together to 242 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: attack the English landlords who they both see, who they 243 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: both see as a common enemy. These uprisings are a 244 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: real threat to the status quo and to the power 245 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: balance because there's more, there are more Africans and indentured 246 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: Irish in these in these spaces than there are these 247 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: English and sometimes Scottish elites. So one of the things 248 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: that this legislative concept of whiteness does is it gives 249 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: those indentured Irish so they're still exploited in contrast to 250 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: the other white right, but as provided that they are 251 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: given someone else to exploit, then then they are creating 252 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: a different they're creating a different peer right where they 253 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: are no longer on the bodom exactly exactly. So there's 254 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: a deep investment, you know, in that, and they're also 255 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: dangled the promise, you know, now as white people, you 256 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: two can access these things that the rich elite have, 257 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, and that's so complete an option that's shut 258 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: down to people who become racialized as black. But it 259 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: was so interesting that whiteness, the concept of whiteness, shut 260 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: down those moments of coalition and solidarity which really could 261 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: have upset the whole social order and created just created 262 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: a completely different reality. And then you see the same 263 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: thing happening in colonial Virginia where you have indentured English 264 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: laborers and enslaved Africans again come together. There's a rebellion 265 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: called Bacon's Rebellion, where they also attack the English elite, 266 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: and very shortly after that the law met the English. 267 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: White English lawmakers, who are now kind of understand themselves 268 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: as white, introduce again these slave codes that create a 269 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: situation where people who are now racialized as black have 270 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: no recourse to justice or any sort of human rights, 271 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: and white people who are really quite a motley crew 272 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: of everybody from you know, Scottish, English, Irish, I think 273 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: some Portuguese felons, land lords, a whole range of society 274 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: who have no idea of themselves as am who have 275 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: no concept of themselves as having any kind of shared identity. 276 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: That motley crew becomes reimagined as white people, and even 277 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: those on the lower rungs of that kind of whiteness 278 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: start to see their fates and fortunes far more in 279 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: alignment with other people racialized as white than they do 280 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: with people who are racialized as black, who might actually 281 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: have more kind of circumstantial shared experience of lifestyle with them. 282 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: So whiteness one of the things that does is to 283 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: shut down solidarity and code mission. I mean, I mean 284 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: that that is literally the point, right that is that 285 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: is literally the point is that if you can create 286 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: this stratification of power right, and then you ensure that 287 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: there is always going to be this underclass, what is 288 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: perceived to be this underclass. And we can all agree, 289 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: regardless of what country we are coming from, but we 290 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: can all agree that the black and the brown belong 291 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: on the bottom. Then you can build off of that. 292 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: And I think that what's you know, what is so 293 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: fascinating to me as I'm listening to you weave through 294 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: centuries right of oppression, is that I'm thinking about you know. 295 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: Lyndon B. Johnson said at one time that if you 296 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: can teach the poorest white man that he is better 297 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: than the best negro, then you can pick his pockets. 298 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: That all of this, all of this comes back to 299 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: it being steeped in what capitalism. If we were if 300 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: we were to reimagine a system that wasn't a pyramid scheme, 301 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: because that is how I see it, If we were 302 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: to reimagine a system that was not a pyramid scheme, 303 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: then it would we would recognize that everyone has been bamboozled. 304 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: And that's why and that's why I think that your 305 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,719 Speaker 1: book is so important, because it is the recognition that 306 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: everyone has been bamboozled by whiteness. Right, and that the 307 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: only people, the only people that truly truly benefit are 308 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: the wealthy, are the wealthy white elite, because everyone else, 309 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: to your point, has much more in common in terms 310 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: of just trying to put food on the table, just 311 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: trying to keep their head above water then they do 312 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: with those that they aspire to be. There is something 313 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: in America, and I want to know if you sense 314 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: it elsewhere as well, But there is there is this 315 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: aspirational sense of being right. We don't fix our tax 316 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: codes here because there's this belief that one day you're 317 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: going to hit the lottery and you too will be rich, right, 318 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: and so you want to pay less taxes when that miracle, 319 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: you know, cease to happen. I think about it all 320 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: the time that like for Americans, wealth is this aspirational thing, 321 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: so they will follow whomever. It doesn't matter if they're bright, 322 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if they're misogynists or racist like Donald 323 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: Trump it has, it doesn't matter. There is something about 324 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: this this shiny, bright thing of wealth that is like 325 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: a moth to a flame. And I want to know 326 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: if that because unless you can break that kind of hypnotism, 327 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that you get anywhere, right, because there's 328 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: a I don't I don't think that you move anywhere. 329 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: And I wonder if you see that same type of 330 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: because I'm not as privian and well versed in international 331 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: thoughts about race and racing. But do you see that 332 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: that's sense of this aspirational desire? Yes, those tendencies are 333 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: certainly amongst us, and they are very much used to 334 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: manipulate people from acting according to their own best interests, 335 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, that idea of aspiration and being able to 336 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: one day achieve the good life. So in this it's 337 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: still voting against the things that would actually make your 338 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: current material conditions better or even livable. However, they are 339 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: not as pronounced here, and again it's different in Ireland 340 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: as they are in the United States. In the United States, 341 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: that tendency seems like turbocharged, you know, like actually far 342 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: more deeply integral to to what America is and means, 343 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: you know. So I think it's more pronounced in the 344 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: United States. It definitely exists here, but I think it's 345 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: yet more potent where you are. Yeah, we've just created 346 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: we've concocted a series of tales in the United States 347 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: that are grounded in white American exceptionalism, right, and this 348 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: idea that you will pull yourself up from your bootstraps, 349 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: that you can you know, you can arrive, you two 350 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: can arrive at this place and it doesn't matter what 351 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: your current reality is. It's living in the fantasy of 352 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: what could be right. And I think that both the 353 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: possibility of the thing right is both what draws people 354 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: to America and also what can make you so disgusted 355 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: with America right, because it's like the dangling of the 356 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: carrot of Oh, there is possibility to have these things 357 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: if you if you clear every single hurdle and obstacle 358 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: that it's placed in your way as a person of color, 359 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: as a woman, as a queer person, as a person 360 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: with disabilities, Like if you can mate around all of this, 361 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: then yes, yes, there's this possibility. Yeah. And also when 362 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: other people are you know, like here in this country, 363 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: I'd say, like inherited wealth is like a really big 364 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: thing as it is in the United States, but there's 365 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: actually like very little social mobility here. So one of 366 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: the things that I talk about in the one of 367 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: the things that I really look at in the book 368 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: actually is again one of my frustrations with the current 369 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: the kind of mainstream liberal iteration of anti racism is 370 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: this almost criticization of interpersonal privilege, often at the expense 371 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: of looking at things like inherited wealth, looking at things like, 372 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: you know, for more structural wealth, power imbalances and types 373 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: of inequalities that exist. So I have a chapter in 374 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: the book that looks at the redistribute. It is called 375 00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: redistribute Resources. It thinking about inherited wealth and you know, 376 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: forms of forms of taxation and how black people, and 377 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: again this is more pronounced in the United States, have 378 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: been locked out of opportunity to create wealth and to 379 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: accumulate wealth in an intergenerational way, and to really think, 380 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: to really put our energy towards tackling things like that. 381 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: I talk about things like universal basic income and even reparations, 382 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: and I think our energy would be better placed looking 383 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: at those more structural processes. Then this, as I said, 384 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: almost feticization of interpersonal privilege that just often plays out online. 385 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: I think that's something of a distraction technique. Actually, I mean, 386 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: I think, you know, frankly, all of it is such 387 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: a deep distraction. And I appreciate your writing so much 388 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: because I think that it offers us what we really 389 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: where we should be, right, how we actually get there, 390 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm fuzzy on it, but you definitely present 391 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: where we should be and how if we have these 392 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: fundamental grapplings of the formation of race, understanding racism, the 393 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: why behind it all, then we can actually begin to 394 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: move forward. But to in this country we are living 395 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: in the midst of I think one of the greatest 396 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: gas lights I have ever seen, right, And it is 397 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: just it is extraordinary the lengths that right wing white 398 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: leaders are going to in this country right now to 399 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: make it seem as if nothing of inequity, nothing of injustice, 400 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: nothing of domestic terrorism ever happened, Right, It's just all 401 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: something that we've made up and we and more so 402 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: we should just get over well. I think the UK 403 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: is very much like taking its que from that at 404 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,239 Speaker 1: the moment. We recently had a report that said, you know, 405 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: institutional racism doesn't exist here and that not only does 406 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: it not exist, but that the UK is actually like 407 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: a global leader in the rest of our world should 408 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: should kind of take their cue from from the UK 409 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: in terms of creating kind of like an anti anti 410 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: racist society. That report has been you know, just widely 411 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: discredited and rubbished, but I think it speaks to the 412 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: level of of gaslighting that is occurring, you know, at 413 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: that level, and it was a remarkable report, the Cwell 414 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: Fewell Report, you know, no engagement with the ongoing legacy 415 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: of empire and colonialism, which you know is really key 416 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: in the conversations that we need to have about race 417 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: in the UK. I think empire. I don't even know 418 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: if the empire is mentioned once in the report. If 419 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: it is, there's certainly no kind of real engagement with it. 420 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: So rather than have a truth for reckoning, you know, 421 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: with what the British Empire meant and why we have 422 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: people of color, black people in the UK, why these 423 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: populations are here, rather than engage with any of that, 424 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: it was just it was just denial and delusion. Really um. 425 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: And then there's the same conversation happening here as well 426 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: about making not allowing critical race studies to Yeah, because 427 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: what would what would happen when the lie is unwoven? 428 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: What would happen when people start to remove rose colored 429 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: glasses and recognize the lies that they have been told 430 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: and who it is hurt and whose life has been 431 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: made better because of it. The fear that we are 432 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: living in right now is palpable in so many the 433 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: fear of the truth right, fear of constructive conversation, fear 434 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: of unpacking and looking at the birth of power and 435 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: who has it and why. And I think that you know, 436 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: more people authors like yourself that continue this conversation, that 437 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: continue to push us forward. They won't be able to 438 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: gasolight us forever because there's just too much there's too 439 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: much conversation that is out there, and there's too many 440 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: people like yourself that are saying no, you know, we're 441 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: going to bring this to light. Emma. I hope that 442 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: you will come back to woke F. This was such 443 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: a wonderful conversation, folks. The book is what white people 444 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: can do next from allyship to coalition. Thank you so 445 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: much for making the time to join us on wok F. 446 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: Hey most welcome. Thank you for having me. Emma's book 447 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: and studies are not so much about promoting anti racism, 448 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: but anti racism as in, we need to be calling 449 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: out and deconstructing the idea of race itself as created 450 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: by white people to enforce their own supremacy over the 451 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: rest of us. We cannot deny our own histories and identities, 452 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: but part of our collective human history is that racial 453 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: identity was created to oppress anybody who is not white, 454 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: and we can even see through history how the definition 455 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: of white has changed to let certain people in and 456 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: keep other people out. As long as our anti racism 457 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: grants that race is something that innately exists rather than 458 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: something that was constructed to systematically disadvantage non white people 459 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: for centuries, will we ever be able to move past 460 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: our racist systems in society. I'm leaving you with that 461 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: very big question to consider as we move forward into 462 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: this week, in which Woke AF will be releasing daily, 463 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: five days a week wherever you get your podcasts. If 464 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: you enjoy my work as always, please do consider supporting 465 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: me at Patreon dot com slash WOKEAF, where I will 466 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: continue to bring the woke a f nation, full hour 467 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: long shows, exclusive interviews, video content, and much more Power 468 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: to the people, to all the people. Power, get woke 469 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.