1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Did you ever read the tug forums? Did you ever 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: go there yourself? A little bit? But I tried not 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: to read too much because it was Taboo's friend from Stanford, 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: Sean Limb, was living in Korea when the Tajing forums 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: started accusing Tableau of lying. He remembers what it felt 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: like at the height of the scandal. But what what 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: was it like when it was really happening? What was 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: going on there? Like you ever been in a room 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: of crazy people, Like there's just the energy of it, 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: like that weird electricity of people who are volatile and 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: you don't know, like if they're going to break things 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: or hit you or you're going to get paunched. It 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: felt like that in there, Like these people were so 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: angry from vice and I heart I'm Dexter Thomas and 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: this is authentic. Episode five Consequences. In just three months, 16 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: the tai Jano forum had exploded to more than a 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: hundred thousand members. Users were posting daily, sometimes hourly, and 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: the crusade had moved offline. Members were finding anyone even 19 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: remotely connected to Tableau and harassing them, trying to find 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: information that might prove the Tableau was lying. Tableau's family 21 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: and friends were being docked, and Tableau himself was under 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: intense scrutiny, not just from the forum members, but from 23 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: the public. A lot of people, even some of the 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: same people who probably enjoyed seeing Tableau on TV. We're 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: starting to buy into the theory the Tableau was lying 26 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: about his past. On August two, what becomes Tajanio's Day 27 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: facto leader by this point, wrote this post saying Tableau 28 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: and his family now cannot run away and they are 29 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: broken down. Now we need to strike and smash on 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: the back of their heads with a bird stick. Tableau 31 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: says that his label offered to introduce him to a lawyer, 32 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: but he'd have to pay for it himself. He decided 33 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: to leave the label altogether. So now with no backing, 34 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: no manager, no pr rep, Tableau was on his own, 35 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 1: up against tens of thousands of anonymous forum members who 36 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: were determined to take him down. But it wasn't just 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: the Internet. You couldn't even turn on the evening news 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: without seeing his name flash across the screen, and people 39 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: were starting to wonder if Tijano was right. It was 40 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: starting to look like an all out war. But it's 41 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: hard to call what Tableau was doing fighting. It was 42 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: more like complying. When Tajo demanded his school documents, he 43 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: released them. When a major news channel said they were 44 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: going to do an investigative documentary and they wanted to 45 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: interview him, he agreed. When the documentary aired in October, 46 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: people watched him cry and try to explain that he 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: really did go to Stanford. They also watched Tajeno members 48 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: explain what it was like investigating Tableau. It's like a game. 49 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: It's addictive, it's fun, like being a detective in a 50 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: mystery novel. Some members started calling themselves online players, like 51 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: this whole thing was a video game and the objective 52 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: was to catch Tableau. The media had given Tableau a 53 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: forum to defend himself, but that just added fuel to 54 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: the fire. After that documentary aired, Tajanio membership doubled to 55 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: almost two hundred thousand. Later that same October, the Prosecutor 56 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: General in Korea pushed for the national police to finally 57 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: get answers. But the thing is, the police had already 58 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: been aware of this. Tajen you know members have been 59 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: spamming government websites since August, pushing for law enforcement to 60 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: get involved. This, combined with the growing pressure from the 61 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: public at large, finally got the police to start asking questions. 62 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: So Tableau went and got himself that lawyer because it 63 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: was clear that this was about to get very serious. 64 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't about his fame or his music anymore. Tableau 65 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: was now being investigated by the National police for forgery 66 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: of a private document, and Korean law's interpretation of forgery 67 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: is important here because it's not just about, say, the 68 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: financial harm you do to someone if you forge his 69 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: signature on a check. Korean law is extremely concerned about 70 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: the public's ability to trust private documents like contracts or 71 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: bank statements or diplomas. So even if Tableau hadn't used 72 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: his credentials for a job application or anything, the act 73 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: of flaunting a fake diploma around on national television in 74 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: the Korean government size is causing harm to society's trust 75 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: that is punishable by law. If Tableau was found guilty, 76 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: that could land him in prison for up to seven 77 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: and a half years. This is not this is not 78 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: see killer, This is just a cyber deformation. This is 79 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: so in He was an officer in the cyber crime 80 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: unit in South Korea's National police force. He says the 81 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: decision to investigate Tableau was unprecedented in Korea. There had 82 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: been times when the national police got involved in forgery cases, 83 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: but this time the police were intervening in a private 84 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: citizen's life at the behest of an online mob. But 85 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: I got a call from Brugal House at the time, 86 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: so everybody watching these cases. Officers got a call from 87 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: the Blue House, which is the official residence of the 88 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: President of South Korea, kind of like the White House 89 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: in the United States. They let him know that this 90 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: thing needed to be done by the book, no favoritism 91 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: and no delays. I mean, is there any pay just 92 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: to ask me to investigate correctly and finish quickly. I mean, 93 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: just to put it into perspective, picture the White House 94 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: telling the FBI to investigate whether Kanye West really went 95 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: to Chicago University because a bunch of people I read 96 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: it said he didn't, and then personally calling the lead 97 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: investigator to say, hey, you better do this right. It 98 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't happen, not just because he's a private citizen. But well, 99 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: like I said in the last episode, who cares if 100 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: a rapper lied about their diploma? Well, in Korea, a 101 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: lot of people cared and like I mentioned, lying about 102 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: your diploma is a crime there. And now it was 103 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: officers suze job to get the answers that the whole 104 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: country was waiting for. Why do you think you were 105 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: chosen for the case? Our producer Stephanie talked to officers, 106 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: so my my bost think I'm the smartest because at 107 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: the time I'm the only one who has a cybersecurity 108 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: degrete and certification. Officers first got into computers in the nineties. 109 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: At first, it was mostly a hobby. He did get 110 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: himself a gig making websites for K pop fan magazines, 111 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: but that wasn't satisfying to him. What he really liked 112 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: was cybersecurity, so we started studying that and in the 113 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: mid two thousands, when Korea's National Police Force announced they 114 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: were looking for cybersecurity experts, he applied and got the job. 115 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: By the time the agency picked up Tableau's case in 116 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: twenty he'd been there for a couple of years and 117 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: he had the most experience in the entire cyber crime unit, 118 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: so it was only natural that the case would go 119 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: to him. On an early September morning, Tableau arrived for 120 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: his scheduled interrogation at the National Police Agency headquarters in Seoul. 121 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: Officers subb spent weeks doing research. He'd collected every document 122 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: he could get his hands on, and he knew he'd 123 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: be able to catch Tableau in any lie. He also 124 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: knew that Taijuanyo and the press would be watching, so 125 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: he had Tableau come on a Sunday when the front 126 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: office was mostly empty and the press was less likely 127 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: to be snooping around, And even then they had him 128 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: come in the rear entrance just in case. Officers saw 129 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: and a couple other investor gators walk Tableau and his 130 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: lawyer into a small office. They all sat down, Tableau 131 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: on one side, Officers on the other. They got right 132 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: into it, no small talk. Officers started off with the 133 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: first line of interrogation pick Korean, English, Chinese, and he's 134 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: one of the biggest parts of Tagos conspiracy hinge on 135 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: how smart Tableau is or isn't. This meant the officers 136 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: would have to test his intelligence, and he figured the 137 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: easiest way to do this would be to compare Tableau's 138 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: actual abilities to the things he'd done on TV. And 139 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: officers had a particular baseline in mind all right, now, 140 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: this is one of the funniest shows. In two thousand seven, 141 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: Tableau went on a variety show where the hosts had 142 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: him play a game It's It's a it's a Korean 143 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: food with Scott. He was pretty simple. The hosts would 144 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: write down some phrases in Korean and then they'd have 145 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: Tableoo described that phrase in all the different languages that 146 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: he said he knew. He does English a lot of 147 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: stuff in it, and French in l a moon or more, 148 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: and Chinese, and on the panel their native English, French 149 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: and Chinese speakers to judge how well he's doing. His 150 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: Chinese is okay and his French is not so hot. 151 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: But everyone sort of makes a joke about it, because, 152 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: after all, this is a game show. The guy who's 153 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: judging Tableau is English. Is this Australian comedian and he's 154 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: got this kind of dry humor and he starts critiquing Tableau. 155 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: There he gives his caveat, saying that lots of Koreans 156 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: who hang out with foreigners probably have the same ability, 157 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: but that all things considered, Tableau speaks pretty good English. 158 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: So he's obviously joking here, and people start laughing because well, 159 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: Tableau speaks perfect English. This wasn't a particularly notable appearance. 160 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: People had seen Tableau speak English before, and he was 161 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: now a regular on TV. A couple of years later, though, 162 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: as the scandal was in full swing, Tajanio had gone 163 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: back to any recording they could find to scrutinize everything 164 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: Tableau said on TV, including this show, searching for any 165 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: evidence of lies. And they didn't think any of this 166 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: language stuff was funny at all. A post by Truth 167 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: is out there on October fift said, overall, his English 168 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: skills are really not good, and it's logical to doubt 169 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: whether he really was able to finish his graduate level 170 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: education and major in English lit. There was so much 171 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: talk on the Tajano forums about Tableau's language skills that 172 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: officers decided this might be an opportunity to catch him 173 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: in a lie. The thing was, tablet was very confident 174 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: about his English ability, but French and Chinese he hadn't 175 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: used those in forever. So they actually had me speak miraculously. 176 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: I just like like speaking in tongues. It came back 177 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: to me for that moment. He looked very smart. I 178 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: mean he didn't probably if his I one up, but 179 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: we know, we knew if he's very smart. They was 180 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: just incredible that they had put in so much time. 181 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: It spanned every like it spanned everything from my transcript, 182 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: my degree, to each member of my family, um, my 183 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: mom's childhood, my dad's childhood, every place they worked at 184 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: moved to every conspiracy theory involving anybody they know, my siblings, 185 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: with my friends I had to verify like kids I 186 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: went to school with, gave dug into like my ex 187 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: girlfriends and stuff like just it was just incredible the 188 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: sheer amount of things I had to talk to the 189 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: police about. The interrogation went on for hours. I think 190 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: it was very deep cold to sit sit a long 191 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: time in those kind of chair, and then I think 192 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: his tires. So sometimes around lunchtime, officers called for a break. 193 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: Everyone stood up and walked out of the room to 194 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: get lunch. Tableau excused himself to go to the bathroom, 195 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: so also had to go, so he followed him. It 196 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: was a tiny bathroom, so it was a little awkward, 197 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: but the interrogation was officially paused until this break was over. 198 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: So opposite, I wasn't gonna say anything to Tableau. He 199 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: was just gonna do his thing and leave. But then 200 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: Tableau looked at him. He told me in the bathroom, 201 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: doesn't this and if I to a side, he has 202 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: the officers. So with this end, if I commit suicide, 203 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: he has kind of intention that you want to commits 204 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,479 Speaker 1: outside to finish the order of stuff. I said that, 205 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: That's what he said, Really, who I remember that? Really? 206 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: Do you remember was there in a point where you 207 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: were thinking about that. It's quite possible that there's uh 208 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: certain things I may have like compartmentalized. I may have 209 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: hidden it away somewhere. I don't know, but I'm genuinely 210 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: shocked that that happened, or that I said that two 211 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: the police. I don't remember like trying to kill myself 212 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: for or like planning it. I don't remember it. I 213 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: just I don't. I mean, like I truly don't remember it. 214 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: Tableau and I hadn't really talked about this time period 215 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: until this point. This was the time that Tableau had 216 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: told me that he was barely leaving his house. Whenever 217 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: I pressed him for more details about his daily life 218 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: back then, what kind of things he was thinking and doing, 219 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: he'd give me this caveat that he doesn't really know 220 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: that anything he's telling me is second hand. And my 221 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: wife tries not to talk about this because this is 222 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: a this is like pain for her as well. She 223 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: did say to me that it wasn't like I was 224 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: completely broken down or anything. It just at times felt 225 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: like I didn't have a soul, almost like that I 226 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: was just I had been hollowed out and I was 227 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: there but not really. She said that, yeah, like it 228 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: was on this stiff my soul had like just disappeared, 229 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: and I was just sort of like doing things like 230 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: on autopilot. I gotta tell you the truth. And honestly, 231 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: at times like I was confused whether or not I 232 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: had dementia. Like I I literally said to myself, did 233 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: I imagine going to Stanford? Like? Did I imagine my 234 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: life before all of this? You seriously thought that, yeah, 235 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: because if the entire world is saying that that's what happened, like, 236 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: how am I supposed to make sense of that? I 237 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: gotta say here that when Tableau first told me he 238 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: didn't remember this period of his life, I was a 239 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: little skeptical. Maybe he didn't want to talk about it, 240 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: or more specifically, maybe he just didn't want to talk 241 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: about it with me. But when I told Tableau about 242 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: him asking the cops for advice about killing himself, the 243 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: look on his face told me immediately that this man 244 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: was not faking. His face dropped. He was shocked. One 245 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: of the few things Tableau had through this entire process 246 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: was the sense of who he was, his sense of self. 247 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: Even as he started to lose his grip on basic 248 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: things like where he lived and what he'd accomplished, he'd 249 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: never lost hold of his core. Not Tableau the rapper 250 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: or Dan the Stanford graduate, but Tableau Daniel Lee, the son, 251 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: the friend, the father, the person who would never ever 252 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: waver in that duty. He'd convinced his family this, and 253 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: maybe more importantly, he'd convinced himself. But in that room 254 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: with me, he found out it wasn't true. He wasn't 255 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: as brave as he told himself he was. And for 256 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: a few seconds, it was like he wasn't looking at 257 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: me anymore. He was kind of looking past me, like 258 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: there was a mirror on the other side of the room, 259 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: and and looking at it, he was realizing how much 260 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: closer to the edge he was then he'd been willing 261 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: to admit to himself in the bathroom. He looks like 262 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: he wanted to cry. Yeah, I charged him because I 263 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: don't know it. You only have to tell me the trust. 264 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: After they took a break, officers said he didn't really 265 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: notice any other sign of emotion from Tableau. When they 266 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: got back to the room and started the questioning again, 267 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: Tableau seemed to snap back into focus. He straight faced 268 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: and just centered on getting through all the questions. In 269 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: the end, the interrogation took about eight hours. Once I 270 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: decided he had gotten everything he could from Tableau, everyone 271 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: went home for the night. The next day started making calls. 272 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: He had to take every statement Tableau made line by 273 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: line and verify if it was true or not. He 274 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: also collected more documents. We have to find if this 275 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: document is facal on us, so we sent this documents 276 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: to other organizations. They sent the important documents to government 277 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: forensics labs for verification. They were not going to let 278 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: anything slip to the cracks. Once they got them back, 279 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: they analyzed everything. The entire process took about a month, 280 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: then getting the finals, and then I kind of had 281 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: a confidence that he graduated the stampo APTI analyzing or 282 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: In October of the police were ready to announce their 283 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: findings at a press conference. They said the Tableau's paperwork 284 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: was all legit. The Tableau's claimed that he graduated from 285 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: Stanford in three and a half years with a bachelor's 286 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: and a master's degree was true. Tableau head never lied. 287 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: Tijanyo was wrong. It should have ended there, but it didn't. 288 00:18:50,440 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: That's after the break In October, the Korean National Police 289 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: Agency announced it after a thorough investigation, they had found 290 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: no evidence that Tableau had lied about his degree. For 291 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people, this announcement was enough. If the 292 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: highest law enforcement agency in the country said he was innocent, 293 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: then maybe Tableau really was who he said he was. 294 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: But now tai Jano had a problem. They had pushed 295 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: hard for an investigation in the Tableau and this was 296 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: not the outcome they wanted. That wasn't the problem, though. 297 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: The police announced they were turning their focus away from 298 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: Tableau and toward the people who were making these posts 299 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: about Tableau. Taijano's request for an investigation backfired in the 300 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: worst possible way. Now they were the target. Why did 301 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: you decide to do that? Why did you decide to 302 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: pursue the Tajo Because we have to investigate every cases 303 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: we got, so I got the post cases from Tajanio side, 304 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: and then so of course I have to do my duty. 305 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: Tableau wanted the police to look into the people who 306 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: had been harassing him in his family for months, and 307 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: his words now held more weight given that he had 308 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: been officially cleared of what the police now considered to 309 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: be bogus charges. His lawyer had already printed out user 310 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: names and screenshots of what he considered to be the 311 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: worst offenders. He handed everything over the police and was 312 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: ready to sue for defamation. In Korea, defamation is a 313 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,959 Speaker 1: crime that's punishable by up to seven years in prison, 314 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: about the same amount of time that Tableau had been 315 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: facing for forgery, and the police took this justice seriously, 316 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: and so this kicked off the investigation into ta Janyo. 317 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: Police had looked into online harassment cases before, but they 318 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: usually didn't go anywhere. Before this, things that happened online 319 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: still kind of felt like they were separate from the 320 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: real world. But Toujanyo was clearly very real, and this 321 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: had been a highly public case, so there was a 322 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: chance that this could go differently. Within hours of the 323 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: police announcing the investigation. Chajano responded on the forum not 324 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: to apologize, but to go on the offensive. On October nine, 325 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: someone with the user name ce dave Lee made a 326 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: new post with all sorts of new accusations against the police. 327 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: It read, the police didn't follow their operating procedure rules. 328 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: It seems suspicious. We urged the police to conduct the 329 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: fair investigation. We were already in the middle of hiring lawyers, 330 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: and we promised to actively react to the investigation. Even 331 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: they told us doing the investigation, we're going to have 332 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: lost against you guys. You guys, Detectiveical not go to Jay. 333 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: They asked cut the subillance coming out to Video Equity 334 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: so that they can use that evidence to fight a 335 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: la go against the police. Detective. So you're kind of 336 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: scared because they are threatened us. It seems like not 337 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: a good idea to harass the police when they're investigating you, right, 338 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: like kep, you kept investigating, Yeah, Officers. Began his investigation 339 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: by trying to track down some of the real names 340 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: of people posting on Tajanio. In order to do this, 341 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: he needed access to the data on Neighbor, the platform 342 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: Tajanio was on because to make an account on Neighbor, 343 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: you used to have to provide a government ID number 344 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: when you signed up, so even if you're publicly anonymous, 345 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: Neighbor knew who you were. But Neighbor wasn't willing to 346 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: just hand over all that personal data for every single member, 347 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: so officers so narrowed it down to a smaller list 348 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: of the really egregious posters and he got a warrant 349 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: for them. Were handed over those addresses and phone numbers, 350 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: and officers started calling people up and pretty quickly new 351 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: form threads started popping up with people nervously talking about 352 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: being called into the police station. Then, just days later, 353 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: tajen Your members logged into their accounts to find that 354 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: the entire tajen Your forum was gone. The police had 355 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: discovered that what becomes the Star of ta Janyo had 356 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: used a fake government I D to sign up for 357 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: his account, and in Korea that is illegal. At this point, 358 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: police wanted all the data, and Neibor agreed to give 359 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: it to them. Sus says he was about to request 360 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: another warrant to get the site shut down, but Neighbor 361 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: did it for them. At this point, Neighbor figured that 362 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: it was in their best interest to comply with the investigation, 363 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: but it was never going to go that easy. A 364 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: few hours later, a new form showed up. This one 365 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: was called naturally ta Janyo two, and people started flooding 366 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: back in. Even some of the old posts were intact 367 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: because a forum member had saved them. This was not 368 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: a shutdown, this was a hiccup in the operation. Ta 369 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: Janyo was back on in full force, but the celebration 370 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: didn't last for long. The police were pulling in members 371 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: one by one for questioning, and of course, the word 372 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: got out if a four member went dark for too long, 373 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: people started wondering if they've been called in and what 374 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: happened to them and who was next. In the span 375 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: of days, the forms moved morphed for righteous euphoria into anger, 376 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: into a slow collective freak out, and they were struggling 377 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: to stay focused. How many user names do you think 378 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: you went through before you started to narrow into the 379 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: people who were worst? More than it took officers months 380 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: to go through all those user names, but by January 381 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, he finally narrowed it down to a 382 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 1: list of people he thought he could charge with an 383 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: actual crime, and how did you decide who was going 384 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: to be the worst of the people who you're going 385 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: to investor? I mean the frequency, how often they post 386 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: pedure and how sedos the contents for without posting, and 387 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: then if this is so to or not. At its height, 388 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: Tanjanio had had around two hundred thousand members, but after 389 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: the shift in public sentiment and the shutdown of the 390 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: original forum, and especially the investigation, the ranks were dropping. 391 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: Tajanio still had tens of thousands of members, but they 392 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: were fighting what was starting to look like a losing battle. 393 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: In January two tho eleven, after three months of interrogating 394 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: Tago members, the police announced the results. Hollow Eleven people 395 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: were being charged with defamation. This announcement happened in January, 396 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: but it would take more than a year to finalize 397 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: everything in court. But before I could go to trial, 398 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: two people came forward and apologized. One person even got 399 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: their family involved. It was a girl and her dad 400 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 1: showed up to my house. I was like, please, please, 401 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: don't come here. Since Tableau was the person who brought 402 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: the charges, he also had the power to rescind them, 403 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: and I kept telling him to leave and Eventually he did. 404 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: I had the security come up and you know, tell 405 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: him he can't be here. But then as he left, 406 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, like this this father looked like he you know, 407 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: he wasn't doing well in life, you know, and this 408 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: was just another huge problem on his heart. I actually 409 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: ran out and he said that his daughter had been 410 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: struggling with like like skin problems, and um, this like 411 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: drove her crazy, and she like regrets it, but that 412 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: was the reason for her anger. It's just in that moment, 413 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: like the way that person looked, like the way that 414 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: person's father looked, I just you know, I'm fighting this, 415 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: like I'm I'm fighting this person. I let that person 416 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: off the hook. Another person also apologized to Tableau, and 417 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: he agreed to remove them from the prosecution list too. 418 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: The other nine people stood trial for defamation. All of 419 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: them were found guilty. The ones who posted about Tableau's 420 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: family got the harshest sentences. Most of them got probabed, 421 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: but three of them were sentenced to eight to ten 422 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: months in prison. This was a landmark case. Korea already 423 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: had laws on the books against defamation, but it was 424 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: difficult to bring that to an actual conviction. In part 425 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: because the justice system tended to air on the side 426 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: of caution when it came to freedom of speech. But 427 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: attitudes about online harassment had shifted, and Tableau's case was 428 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 1: extremely public. No other defamation case had gotten this kind 429 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: of attention. This wasn't exactly a win for officers, So 430 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: there was still some unfinished business important the guys. When 431 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: the original Tajanio forum was shut down, what becomes had 432 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: more or less disappeared, but officers so was still looking 433 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: for him. I still remember he used to living in 434 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: the Chicago. I found his name, and I found his 435 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: selfhone number, and I quart he from Korea And what 436 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: did he say? That's next time? Unauthentic. Authentic is a 437 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: production of Vice Audio and I Heeart podcast Network, produced 438 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: and reported by Stephanie Karayuki, Minjiko Hate Osbourne and myself 439 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: with Janet Lee, Stephanie Brown, and Sam Egan. Sound design 440 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: and original music composition by Kyle Murdoch, with additional support 441 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: from Natasha Jacobs. Our supervising producer is Janet Lee, editing 442 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: from Lacy Roberts, fact checking by Minji Ku and Nikole Pasuka. 443 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: Our Executive producer and VP Advice Audio is Kate Osbourne 444 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: from I Heeart Podcast Network, executive producers Nicky e. Tor 445 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: and Lindsay Hoffman. Thinks also to NBC for the documentary 446 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: Tablet Goes to Stanford and the show Hotel I'm Dexter Thomas. 447 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast so 448 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: you don't miss an episode, and if you dig it, 449 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: give us a rating and a review.