WEBVTT - US Consumer Sentiment Rises For First Time in Five Months 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.240 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.840 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.280 weekdays at ten am Eastern on apocarplaying and broud Auto 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.280 with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:24.000 get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.360 Let's get more on you Mish my favorite indicator. Joanshu Is, 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.120 University of Michigan, Surveys of Consumer Director breaking down these 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.800 numbers for us, Joanne, it feels like it's a non mover. Really, 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.400 like everything is status quo. Can you walk me through 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.040 what you see in these numbers? Absolutely so. 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.960 Overall it is essentially flat from last from last month. However, 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.560 that does obscure some pretty substantial movements within the population. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.559 First of all, you know, election news has. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:53.960 Been really dominating the headlines, and we see that in 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.040 our data. Sentiment for Democrats improved six percent this month, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.800 but this ended up being offset by a five decline 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.240 for Republicans. And these movements were entirely in expectations, which 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.479 is sensible given that you know, election developments. Kamala Harris 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.560 becoming the new nominee for the Democrats is not something 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.840 that affects current assessments, But is something that affects people's 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:19.319 outlook for the future, and. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.240 How can we expect that to evolve as we get 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:22.080 closer to the election. 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.160 Since we are still only in mid August. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.080 It's going to be volatile, or that's what I would expect. 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.280 So far, consumers are really folding in who they think 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.240 is going to win the election. But of course, as 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.720 the campaign season evolves, people's expectations for the election are 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.080 going to change, and as such their their future expectations 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:42.600 for the macroeconomy will as well. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:44.720 What are some of the other things that you noticed, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.400 just in terms of either future expectation or current conditions, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:49.600 I should say which did improve? 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:55.160 Yeah, current conditions really didn't move much at all, and 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.040 if anything, it edged down just a little bit. Consumers 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.640 continue to be very frustrated by hype prices that continues 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.640 to be top of mind. At the same time, consumers 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.840 do expect inflation to continue stabilizing. They've been already. They 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.440 weren't really reacting to a CPI print or any data 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.040 that came out this month. They were really already folding 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.919 in their experiences throughout the month, their own experiences shopping 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:20.679 and seeing the prices around them. 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.760 And just looking at the report, so we see thirty 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.840 five percent respondents expect unemployment rate to rise in the 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.160 coming year. Growing number expect interest rates to pull back. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.720 How does that kind of impact consumer sentiment and kind 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.240 of where we could be in the coming months. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.919 So consumers aren't really that concerned right now that labor 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.760 markets may be softening. So the thirty five percent expecting 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.960 unemployment rates to go up, that's unchanged from last month, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:50.520 So that's pretty stable. Income expectations have edged up, improved 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.720 just a little bit, or have gone sideways. There's no 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:57.240 weakening in consumer views of labor markets in August. That 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.520 being said, strength and labor markets is precisely It has 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.880 supported robust consumer spending over the last two years in 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.440 spite of the fact that consumers don't feel like they're thriving. 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.079 And so if there is some unraveling in labor markets, 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.720 some softening in labor markets, I would expect consumers to 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:13.480 pull back. 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.960 All right, Joan, that being yeah, oh no, finish up. Sorry, yeah. 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.399 And part of the reason why that consumers I think 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.840 feel some confidence about labor markets is that they do 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.480 expect interest rates to come down in the year ahead. 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.160 Which leads us right back to the FED. Hey, Joanne, 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:28.960 we do appreciate it, thank you very much. Joining to 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.080 the University of Michigan Surveys of Consumer Director. Joining us 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.680 on those numbers, A sentiment came in a touch better, 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.400 current conditions a touch flower, and expectations a touch higher 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:39.280 as well. 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.760 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.360 weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.160 Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.360 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.240 Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.920 All right, let's get in here now and talk about 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.840 how you think about these markets after the volatility that 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:06.440 we've seen the last couple weeks. But if you went 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.760 on vacation two weeks ago and came back now, you 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:10.480 didn't really miss much at the end of the day, 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.560 which is also kind of crazy. Shana Sissel joins us. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.000 She's president and CEO of Benri owned Capital Management, and 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.360 she joins us, Now, Shana, isn't that funny two weeks ago. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:22.359 It's like it never happened. I mean, that kind of 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.960 rebound in the S and P is quite striking. How 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.320 does that set you up now for the next couple months. 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.200 I always say the best thing we can do for 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.120 clients sometimes is maybe take away their password to their 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.279 brokerage accounts so they're not checking it every day, because 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.400 if they didn't, they would sleep a lot better at 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:43.040 night for that exact reason. The market has short memory 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.000 these days because we have so much information out there 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.800 in the twenty four hour news cycle. But I think 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:53.760 the volatility, you know, Professor Siegel was on another network 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.880 earlier this week taking back everything he said when the 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:01.000 panic set in, and if the professionals that but you know, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:07.760 investors look to for guidance, are inclined to panic, I 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:09.839 think that that says a lot about kind of the 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.960 overall sentiment and psychology of the market right now. So 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.679 it doesn't surprise me that, you know, as information became available, 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.920 people stopped freaking out about the end carry trade. But 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:23.640 it doesn't change the fact that we are in a 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:28.000 slowing economy. We've had good data, and so I think 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.520 people feel confident the FED is definitely going to cut 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.200 twenty five basis points in September, and I think that 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.120 if you are a long term investor that there's some 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.680 opportunities when people freak out like that to take advantage of, 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.120 you know, the psychology of the market and buy things 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:45.880 at a discount. 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.599 Shanna Jackson Hole next week, What are you looking for 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.600 from j Powell? What can you say that can either 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.640 reinforce the view that we're going to get a twenty 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.039 five if not a fifty basis point cut, or could 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.320 he even kind of throw a wrench into things and 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.560 maybe push that for they're out again. 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.719 I can't imagine where he's going to throw a wrench 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.840 in things. I do think that fifty base points is 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.640 a stretch. There's not enough data that suggests that we 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.120 need to do a larger than expected cut, and I 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.600 think the Fed is cautious to not do something so 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:27.279 abrupt and significant that it would upset the overall market sentiments. 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.080 As I've noted a couple of times, does matter, and 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.520 I expect that he will continue the same narrative that 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.839 he's had for quite some time, which is that the 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:44.680 economy is stable, it's doing okay. That data shows that 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.720 it's slowing down and softening, but not of concern, and 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.720 it supports a twenty five base point cut, and I 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.200 think that's what he'll continue to say. I've watched him 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.640 long enough now to know that he's not one to 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.440 like very quickly change his tone. Last time he was 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.719 out speaking, he was, you know, not necessarily overly dubvish, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:11.440 and I don't expect him to suddenly become overly duvish. 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.280 Which to be fair, most other ex FRED presidents aren't either. 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.320 So there's that as well. So we're kind of like 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.520 wrapping up the earning season. We got some retail that's 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:20.280 trickling out obviously in video is going to be a 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.679 big event at the end of August. But what stocks 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.800 do you like after we're kind of past the real 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.640 hump of earning season headed into an election cycle or 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:30.200 policy will be very unclear. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.480 Yeah, So I have kind of a wide variety of 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.160 different types of stocks that I like. You know, I 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.920 like a name like Atlas Holdings, which is Ensure, a 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:48.800 commercial insurance firm, followed it for a while since my 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.880 days at Ariel, and it's a really interesting company with 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.680 a really unique niche that is trading at a discount 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:01.400 and has some relatively attractive upside. Pretty born, it's in financials. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.000 You know, so people it's not sexy like in video 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:09.240 or any of the AI plays. V RT is an 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:14.000 AI play, but it's a second derivative of traditional AI. 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:19.160 It's data center cooling, which is really important because in 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.200 you know, this growing AI demand and more and more 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.520 people looking to incorporate it, you need greater computing power, 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.880 and thus you need a lot stronger or a lot 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.120 more powerful cooling systems, of which v RT can bring 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.120 to the table. I also like Novartists, which is a 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.320 healthcare company. So I'm a little all over the place, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.760 happy to go down any one of those roads for you. 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.319 But yeah, I'm trying. I am trying to find ideas 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:52.520 outside of what has been the hot trend because you 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.320 want to get into other areas when you start to 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.680 see dispersion of returns, which we have seen a little 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.160 bit of, and you want to take advantage of opportunities 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:02.800 to be a stock picker. 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.080 So yeah, I guess kind of when you look at 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.600 how you're playing AI. You mentioned Verdev. I covered them 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.160 when they went public through a spac so you're looking 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.400 at kind of these derivative plays when you're thinking about 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.120 implementation of artificial intelligence and who can be the winners 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:16.040 or losers. 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.840 Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm someone who's followed 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.360 and loved in video and been talking about in VideA 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:28.120 now for years, and it has served me well. You know, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.679 I've made a lot of money for clients and in 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.240 that stock, and I'm still very much bullish on the stock. 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.840 I think the trends are very favorable for the long term, 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.400 and we're still very early in the AI cycle. That said, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.640 I don't think it can maintain the growth rate that 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.560 it's had going forward. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:46.760 Now. 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.120 One hundred percent growth is still really impressive, but when 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.560 you were at three hundred percent growth, it it feels 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.439 a little disappointing. And and so I'm trying to find 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.200 other ideas that will benefit from AI. Vertiv is one 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.280 of them. I've talked a little bit about Cisco in 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.120 the past, and i know they're all in the news 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.000 with the announcement of their layoffs, but that's another player 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.160 that has some second derivative exposure in AI as well, 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:18.400 and trading very cheaply and obviously making so interesting, unattractive 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:24.920 or unpopular decisions internally, but typically those decisions are made 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:30.200 to improve overall financial performance. So that's another name, but 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.600 it's not on my by list. But it isn't another 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.240 like second derivative play And that's kind of what you 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:37.360 have to look at at this point. 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.720 Heyhana really appreciate it. That's such a great point about Cisco. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.880 Shana Sizzel joining us. She's president CEO of Benrionna Capital 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.839 Management joining us. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:52.080 There you're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.040 live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Effo card Play 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.600 and then Broud Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.800 on demand wherever you get your podcasts a watch us 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.559 live on YouTube. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.199 I'm Alex Steel alongside Bailly Lipschutz. Paul Sweeney is setting 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.640 himself at the beach today. This is Bloomberg Intelligence Radio. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:10.480 We bring you all the top news in business and 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.840 finance and economics through our lens of our Bloomberg Intelligence analysts. 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.080 They covered two thousand companies and one hundred and thirty 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.480 industries all around the world. One topic we wanted to 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.360 tackle today was empox. So the who declared a fast 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.000 spreading empox outbreak in Africa a global health emergency as 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.679 the agency seeks to contain the spread of the potentially 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:34.200 deadly virus. WHO Director General sounded that alarm at a 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:35.440 press conference on Wednesday. 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.120 WHR has been working on the mpox outbreak in Africa 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.440 and raising the alarm that this is something that should 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:47.280 concern us all. The Emergency Committee met and advised me 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:52.640 that in its view, the situation constitutes a publical emergency 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.920 of international concern joining us. 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:56.040 Now. 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.440 Sam Fazzelli, Bloomberg Intelligence director of Research for Global Industries 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.160 and senior Forharmaceuticals analyst, is standing by. I hear you're 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.040 in Bordeaux. I can only assume there's a lot of 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:07.040 work happening there. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.240 Oh lots, Alex, lots. I haven't moved from this seat 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:12.640 for the past seven hours. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.560 I mean, he could be telling the truth. Hey, Sam, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.400 when I have you? I assume when I heard the 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.200 Empire's headline, I was like, I gotta get Sam on, 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.080 give us the basics, like what is it and how 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:25.959 dangerous is it? 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:27.920 Yeah? 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.760 So, Alex, I think when the WHO Director General declares 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:38.520 these emergencies, it's that that's already quite a significant and 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.040 important milestone for a disease. And as you know, it 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:45.200 has already there's been some an individual in Sweden apparently 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.199 there's been diagnosed with it. So and as I said 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.960 all along, infectious diseases are not about a country, they're 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.280 not about a continent. They spread. That's the job of 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.680 an infectious agent. So let's remember that as we talked 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.240 through the rest of this conversation, and what we got 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.000 here is not quite a replay of what we had 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.080 two years ago, which was a slightly different version of 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:10.680 this monkey pox virus that this is called empox now. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.400 And the virus comes in two flavors, Played one Clay 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.120 two that kind of looks at it's based on its 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.480 genomic structure, and this particular one is played one, which 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:29.520 is normally less but often found. I hadn't you know. 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.000 The last one was klay two. And this Klaye one 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.920 has got a major chunk of its genome that's been 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.800 taken out, and those who study these things have been 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:41.280 writing that it has made it more transmissible through not 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:46.320 just contact with us, for example, but also through sexual activity, 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.760 which is not what klayed one previously had, but also 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:55.320 just very close contact. So unlike COVID, if you remember, 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.280 there were stories with COVID where you go into a 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.160 restaurant and you sit diagonally across twenty thirty feet away, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.160 and you still have a risk of catching it because 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.120 it gets blown around by the air conditioning. I don't 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.240 think we're at that level with empocs yet. I don't 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.800 with this particular clade. Won't be I can't be one 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.920 hundred percent shore, but I don't think it's like that. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.520 You still do need the close contact, and that's where 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.240 we're That's where my knowledge kind of ends at the minute. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.239 These viruses do have a nasty habit of bringing surprises 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:23.600 to us. 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.560 Well, Sam, that's my next question would be how quickly 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.240 can this evolve in what is kind of that look 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.600 like in terms of similarities or differences to as you 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.520 mentioned the twenty twenty two empocs or something that's more 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:39.840 kind of well not obviously in COVID. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.160 Yeah. Yeah, So twenty twenty two, we still had ninety 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.360 five thousand people who were infected. It did become a 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.600 major issue in many countries, so let's not forget that. 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.960 And so far from the last count I heard about, 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.760 there's been seventeen and a half thousand infections that have 0:14:55.840 --> 0:15:00.280 been documented in the regions that have reported it. So 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.320 how far can this go? It all depends on that 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.680 mode of transmission. It all depends on Remember the days 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.720 we went from a standard if you want to call it, 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:15.040 that coronavirus SARSCOBE two to the omicron variant, which had 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.040 so many mutations that made it completely invisible to our 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.840 immune systems, So everybody got another infection round. I'm pretty 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.040 sure you do recall that last lockdown. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.360 I think it was, Oh, definitely remember all that, zam, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:27.160 don't you worry? 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.000 Yeah, But I. 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.240 Mean, it just feels like a really weird period of 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.560 our lives. And so here we have something that if 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.880 the rules are that it plays with us still the 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.960 same as before, it does meet close contact, which means 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.400 you should be able to avoid an infection if you're 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.400 careful enough. The other elements, of course, is that we 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.120 do have vaccines that do work. There is a six 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:56.840 to seven hundred million stockpile of small pox vaccines around 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.360 both the older generation and new generation, and there are 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.360 two of r n A vaccines in development that could 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.120 be sped up if needed. So we do know that 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.880 vaccination helps, but it does have a higher mortality rate 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:15.400 standard to even the people who get it that are 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.440 that's not just like elderly people, which was mostly a 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.280 COVID issue than COVID did. 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.440 So it can kill more and it can kill all 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.800 different ranges, not just say the elderly. But we do 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:29.600 have the vaccine. What about a treatment. 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:36.000 There was a treatment that actually was being studied by 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.560 a complet called Siga and that just failed in trials 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.120 only two days ago, and it was being tested in 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:48.800 the Congo and it was being against klayte one. But 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.840 the good, the silver sider, the silver lining of that 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.960 report is that the mortality rate that they came out 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.080 with was lower than what people talk about. People talk 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.840 about three to six percent, but in that trial, mortality 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.720 like not small one and a half one point seven 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.960 percent from what I have read. So that does give 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.200 you a little flavor as to maybe it's not as bad, 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.480 but it's obviously one point six one point seven percent 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.040 is too pretty awful. 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.160 And Sam, how kind of quickly can some of those 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.040 vaccinations be deployed? Is that something that's already playing out 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.680 right now? Is that being centered primarily where the heart 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.359 of the outbreak is is in Congo. 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.040 Yeah, it doesn't sound like it from the latest news 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:35.960 real force that I've seen that Bloomberg has been doing 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.680 a great job of talking about that. Apparently there've been 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.000 discussions because this has been not this is not something 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.679 that happened overnight. It's been going on at least in 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.600 the Congo unfortunately for a few months, and that there's 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:53.199 been discussions between groups that provide the vaccines and the Congo, 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.000 and they hadn't got to a the last I read 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.520 to a to an agreement of getting those vacks nations 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.200 out and getting it to people. Let's not forget we've 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.280 learned this. Anywhere you go, having vaccine is not equal 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.560 to people having it in their arms. The more difficult 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.480 a country, a region, reaching people in rural areas, et cetera, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.440 is cold chain necessities, et cetera. The more difficult that is, 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.520 the fewer people will actually be vaccinated. So that's two 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.560 different things here. But I'm confident that we can have 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.680 enough vaccines to ring fence at least infections and areas 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.200 and travelers. But in order to go into the hundreds 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.320 of millions of doses, I think we need the m 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:35.320 RNAs to get going. 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:37.680 It's such a good point, Sam, that's why you're the best. Hey, 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.199 Before we let you go. I just want to hit 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.760 you on this headline here. Pfizer and Beyontech their flu 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.040 covid vaccine failed. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.640 Well, talking about the mRNA here, it's a complicated thing. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.879 It was a combination mRNA is against three different types 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:58.600 of flu and covid, and it failed against one of 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.480 the flu variants, which is the or strains, which is 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:06.600 the influenza B virus in that setting. So they need 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.240 to go back to the growing board and see why. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.480 That is what is complicated here and we need to 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.639 understand it better. Is that they had a success in 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.359 phase two, then they took the same thing into phase 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.640 three and it failed against the B influenza B. I've 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.680 been out. I've asked a company whether that's because they 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.240 think that the strain changed during the trial. It's possible 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.359 to remember flu is one of those nasty ones that 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.280 changes all the time, and the change matters a lot more, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.640 I would say, than covid does. So that is what 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.000 that's what happened here, and it does give them a 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.000 disadvantage versus Moderna which had a successful trial. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.960 Such good perspective, Sam, you are totally the best. Sam Fazelli, 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.800 Boomberg Intelligence, Director of Research, for Global Industries and Senior 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.960 Pharmaceutical joining us from Bordeaux. I look forward to the picture, Sam, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.960 I require some of that just to see because do 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:59.679 you make your own wine there? Like do you have 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.240 Oh he's gone, he already left, already, he's back to 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.960 the vineyard. Ah. Same, thanks Sam, I really appreciate that one. 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.320 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.920 weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.720 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.920 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.359 Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.640 Bloomberg Intelligence Radio. We are broadcasting to live from Interactive 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.480 Broker Studio right here in Midtown Manhattan. Also check us 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.159 out on YouTube. But you know, Bailey doesn't have his 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.320 bro vesque, so the appeal for that is a little 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.520 bit less. A Bay Lipshaltz in for Paul Sweeney. So, Bailey, 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.639 I'm an energy geek nerd. I've been covering energy commodities 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.160 for like seventeen and a half years, so welcome. So naturally, 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:49.440 every once in a while I have an energy guest 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.600 on and this one's actually quite interesting. So it's a 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:57.280 company called Sigma Lithium. It's ticker SGML trades about nine 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.359 dollars fifty cents a share. It's been a one billion 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.560 dollar company. It's a Canadian company, but it minds in 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:06.199 Brazil lithium obviously, hence the name, and the idea is 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.040 to basically make green lithium. Can you make it cost 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.440 competitively and how do you bring your own cost down? Now, 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.000 lithium is used in pretty much everything, but in particular 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.560 the batteries for electric vehicles, So if we want to 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.160 make the transition to green, lithium is something that we're 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.080 going to need. But how you green that is definitely 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.080 the question. So joining us now is Anna Cabral. She's 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.919 Signal Lithium co chair and CEO. The company just reported 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.840 earnings yesterday. What stood out to me really was reduced 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:40.119 cash costs by twenty two percent an increase in margins there. 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.320 So we wanted to get some more insight into how 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.080 all this works, how it is to go green and 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.919 be sustainable mining lithium, and can you sell it for 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.800 what kind of profit? Anna joins us now, Anna, thank 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.040